Am I a fool to buy this mill/drill?
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.
Then, a local company started selling these:
http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51
That is, the one on the left, the WDM ZX7016. A better picture:
http://www.jula.no/bore-fresemaskin-125693
Click the magnifying glass in that picture for a large version.
It costs about a third of what importers charge for a typical mini-mill
over here. Now, I know it's just a sturdy vertical drill with an X/Y
table, but it does feel really solid and stable (it weighs 165 lbs
without the stand shown in the picture), and even if I don't lock the Z
axis, I can't detect any slop whatsoever in the quill, even when cranked
all the way down.
I'm sorely tempted. However, I notice a couple of details that I'm
unsure of. The spindle taper is MT2, whereas it seems most tooling
offered out there is R8. The importer does supply a nice looking collet
chuck in MT2, though. Possibly worse: I'm wondering if I'm going to be
cursing that table every time I use it, because it lacks a central T
slot...? It seems to me every picture I see of anything at all mounted
on a coordinate table uses the center slot, which someone must have
plain forgotten to draw when the plans for this mill were made. :)
-tih
--
There is no such thing as failure. Only giving up too soon. --Jonas Salk
Christopher Tidy
> Need some advice, here...
>
> I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
> out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
> small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
> order to use it for the odd milling operation.
>
> Then, a local company started selling these:
>
> http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51
Personally I would look for a second hand machine of a better quality.
But whether that's right for you I can't say. Would you rather have a
small, brand new machine of uncertain quality, or an older machine that
shows signs of use, but is larger and more robust?
Chris
Robert Swinney
"mill/drilling".
Bob Swinney
"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22...@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:4BA7DA4...@cantabgold.net...
John
surface finishing to a size very difficult.
It looks like a drill press with an XY table. Great for drilling and
it would do some milling but it isn't a proper mill.
However, you get what you pay for. I would go with Chris, see what you
can find second hand. In the mean time, by all means fit a work holder
onto your lathe. It's a cheap mod that will do some types of work.
John
Ignoramus7894
> Agree with Chris. Besides, the pix and advert copy imply it is intended only for drilling, not
> "mill/drilling".
It looks like a drill press to me with MT2 spindle.
i
F. George McDuffee
<t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote:
<snip>
> The spindle taper is MT2, whereas it seems most tooling
>offered out there is R8. The importer does supply a nice looking collet
>chuck in MT2, though. Possibly worse: I'm wondering if I'm going to be
>cursing that table every time I use it, because it lacks a central T
>slot...?
#2MT spindle should not be a show stopper if this has a pull bolt
to allow #2MT collets. You will be limited to 1/2 inch dimeter
shank tooling, but again given the size of the machine this
should not be a show stopper.
One source of #2MT collets is The Litle Machine Shop.
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1752&category=
Actually you will most likely only use the 3/8 and 1/2 sizes
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=874479994
If you need a drawbar, frequently you can use a socket head cap
screw [allen bolt] of the correct size.
also ER 25 collet adapters. Drawback is the loss in spindle to
table clearence -- benefit is you can use 5/8 shank tooling.
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2230&category=
http://hhip.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3900-5210
You can bolt a sub plate of aluminum to your table and drill and
tap all the locating/clamping holes desired/required. One trick
here is to drill/ream for 2 dowel pins to locate the plate
parallel to the table slots without the need to indicate.
The mill drills do offer a larger work envelope, but if you do
mainly small items a milling adapter for ypur lathe, possibly
home brewed using the compound or top slide for vertical movement
will be less expensive and adequate to your needs. For one
example see
http://mcduffee-associates.us/machining/latheMilling.htm
for an econo store bought version see
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1681&category=
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2894&category=
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1956&category=
for the high priced spread see
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=240-2941&PMPXNO=4840108&PARTPG=INLMK3
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=240-2942&PMPXNO=4840109&PARTPG=INLMK3
or try ebay.
If you go with the lathe milling adapter you will still need a
cutter holder as a drill chuck is totally inadequate.
http://www.hhip.com/products/catalog_view.php?CatPage=93
{these are even longer than the ER25 holders}
Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Michael Koblic
"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote in message
news:m2eijcy...@athene.hamartun.priv.no...
Many good insights have already been posed on this. Also:
The bottom speed is quite high.
The spindle travel is minuscule. I see you can also move the head (like in
the Rong Fu mills) but you will lose the XY indexing doing this.
I suspect that if you buy you will regret it. I bought my X2 at almost
exactly the same price - before MVA. If I knew then what I know now I would
have splashed out for an X3. But I suspect even an X2 would be a better
match for your 7x14 lathe.
How easy is it to import into Norway? Will they sting you with additional
taxes and duties or just MVA? I see the price is inclusive of MVA - what is
the MVA rate in Norway? If the prices of mini-mills are three times those in
North America, is it worth looking at importing?
But I suspect that you have already looked at all this yourself...
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
Jim Wilkins
wrote:
> On 2010-03-22, Robert Swinney <judy...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Agree with Chris. Besides, the pix and advert copy imply it is intended only for drilling, not
> > "mill/drilling".
>
> It looks like a drill press to me with MT2 spindle.
>
> i
They claim it's "For både boring og fresing.", I didn't see what
materials it can mill, though. Steel is far more difficult than
aluminum.
MT2 isn't a big problem as long as you can buy metric collets.
The issue with the tee slots is clamping down the milling vise. If it
has lugs on the side they may be in the wrong place. Lengthwise slots
in the sides would make clamping easier.
jsw
Don Foreman
Morse taper is fine for drilling, unacceptable for milling unless
there's a drawbar to hold the cutter firmly in place.
Jim Wilkins
> ....
> Morse taper is fine for drilling, unacceptable for milling unless
> there's a drawbar to hold the cutter firmly in place.
Let me slightly qualify that statement. My 50-year-old milling machine
has the almost identical Brown and Sharpe #7 taper. I bought quite a
few endmills with tanged (not threaded) B&S 7 shanks when Wholesale
Tool closed them out. If the spindle and arbor are very clean and the
endmill is tapped in rather firmly they do work well. I have used them
only for light finish cuts and fishmouthing pipe for welding, since
they are considerably larger than the largest endmills that fit my
collets.
I've had good results welding extra metal onto butchered Morse tangs
to make them pop out of the tailstock on my lathe. I think you could
weld on a nut and make a drawbar out of allthread, with two nuts
jammed together at the top so you can adjust the length, and be able
to remove the drawbar if the weld breaks.
Bottom line, tanged Morse tools aren't -completely- unacceptable if
you are careful and go slowly. They are something I have to put up
with due to the obsolete spindle taper.
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> On Mar 22, 5:25 pm, Ignoramus7894 <ignoramus7...@NOSPAM.7894.invalid>
> wrote:
>> On 2010-03-22, Robert Swinney <judy...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Agree with Chris. Besides, the pix and advert copy imply it is intended only for drilling, not
>> > "mill/drilling".
>>
>> It looks like a drill press to me with MT2 spindle.
>
> They claim it's "For både boring og fresing.", [...]
...meaning "for drilling and milling". The manufacturer claims it can
do 40 mm (1.5") face milling and 10 mm (3/8") plunge milling. Still, it
*is* primarily a drill press, of course.
-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> #2MT spindle should not be a show stopper if this has a pull bolt
> to allow #2MT collets.
It does come with a draw bar - in fact, the included drill chuck is
fitted using an #2MT/B16 shank that's held by the draw bar.
> One source of #2MT collets is The Litle Machine Shop.
Ah, nice! I have a 3/8" set of end mills already, so an MT2 3/8" collet
would be all I need to get this thing working. :)
> You can bolt a sub plate of aluminum to your table and drill and
> tap all the locating/clamping holes desired/required. One trick
> here is to drill/ream for 2 dowel pins to locate the plate
> parallel to the table slots without the need to indicate.
Ah, cool! I could make an adapter for something like this:
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3769
...and end up with something that mounts quickly and cleanly.
[lots of good links elided]
> Unka George (George McDuffee)
Thanks for taking the time to instruct! :)
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> The bottom speed is quite high.
Really? It goes down to 320 RPM. How low would one want a mill to go?
> How easy is it to import into Norway? Will they sting you with
> additional taxes and duties or just MVA?
Well, importing something as heavy as a milling machine means the cost
of shipping will exceed the cost of the machine. Then, there's the 25%
sales tax, which applies to the cost of the machine *and* shipping.
Basically, it's not worth it. :(
danmitch
This would make a decent small drillpress, and a rather poor mill, as
you correctly surmise. Still, if the price is right, it would probably
be better than a milling attachment in a small lathe. I also agree that
a drawbar is essentially REQUIRED. I've seen a few similar small
mill-drills (drillpress based) ... most have had some kind of drawbar
... perhaps 'wimpy', but probably "OK" for such a small machine.
A Morse taper alone will not hold adequately for most milling unless
seated FAR to tight to get out easily. A few early mills used only a
Morse taper, sometimes with NO drawbar. It was a bad idea, but worked,
sometimes, maybe. Even when the taper is properly seated, an interrupted
cut can work the cutter loose. That's NO fun at all! You REALLY want a
drawbar.
While much harder to find, and likely more expensive, than R8 tooling, a
fair selection of M2 Morse Taper tooling is available (drill chucks,
collets, endmill holders, boring heads, flycutters, slitting-saw arbors,
etc.). I think any you find today will have a threaded socket for a
drawbar, usually 3/8" (at least in the "English" world).
I have a little BenchMaster horizontal/vertical mill that uses M2 tapers
and a 3/8 drawbar. It's completely satisfactory for it's size. The only
issue with the M2 taper is that, once a tool is seated with the drawbar,
it often takes a pretty good WHACK on the drawbar to unseat it. Morse
tapers are said to be "self-locking", while R8 tapers are
"self-releasing" (both, sort-of). Such a jolt can't be the best for the
spindle bearings, but really has caused no problems in many years of use.
Dan Mitchell
============
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
danmitch
Ah, yes, the Wholesale Tool closeouts! I got some of these too, in M2
shanks, and already had some from who-knows-where MANY years earlier (I
inherited a bunch from my dad). Yes, all I have without drawbar threads
are tanged. All mine appear quite ancient. While all I have are M2
shank, I've seen much larger versions.
A few have a right-hand cut and a left-hand helix, that would tend to
seat then tighter into the taper. Those with a right-hand helix have
only a very slight helix angle. A high angle right-hand helix with a
right-hand cut was probably a receipe for disaster. A number have
straight teeth with no helix. These look similar to reamers, but have
far more aggressive edges.
Such cutters were apparently used mostly in very early days, and
possibly only for cetain kinds of work. Obviously they worked if
properly seated, at least most of the time, maybe. There may even have
been some other locking mechanisms used at times (still are today).
Since then, drawbars have became largely universal. It's obvious that
there were problems with the simpler setup, and that a drawbar was the
easiest solution.
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> This would make a decent small drillpress, and a rather poor mill, as
> you correctly surmise. Still, if the price is right, it would probably
> be better than a milling attachment in a small lathe.
That's mostly where I'm at in my thinking, so far. Used equipment is
seldom seen on the Norwegian market, and when it is, it tends to be big
and heavy commercial machines, with asking prices way out of my range.
I have to compare it to a milling attachment for my mini-lathe, and it
does seem to come out of that comparison pretty well.
sta...@prolynx.com
> danmitch <danmi...@umflint.edu> writes:
> > This would make a decent small drillpress, and a rather poor mill, as
> > you correctly surmise. Still, if the price is right, it would probably
> > be better than a milling attachment in a small lathe.
>
> That's mostly where I'm at in my thinking, so far. Used equipment is
> seldom seen on the Norwegian market, and when it is, it tends to be big
> and heavy commercial machines, with asking prices way out of my range.
> I have to compare it to a milling attachment for my mini-lathe, and it
> does seem to come out of that comparison pretty well.
>
> -tih
Here's Varmint Al's take:
http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm#Milling_Attachment
The various bits are so low priced, you could make the attachment AND
get the mill/drill if that's what you wanted. I'd still make/buy a
drawbar setup for holding the milling cutters in the lathe, though,
mill shanks will walk out of chucks. Little Machineshop also has both
the drawbar and the "official" mini-lathe milling attachment.
Stan
F. George McDuffee
<t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote:
<snip>
>> One source of #2MT collets is The Litle Machine Shop.
>
>Ah, nice! I have a 3/8" set of end mills already, so an MT2 3/8" collet
>would be all I need to get this thing working. :)
As you are in the EEC and will get hit with the VAT, English/UK
suppliers may be your better bet. Home Shop Machining appears to
be much more popular in the UK than the US, and the suppliers
there seem to have much more for the home shop. Be careful about
the drawbar threads as these come in all 3 flavors.
see
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2fcgi%2dlocal%2fsh000001%2epl%3fREFPAGE%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252echronos%252eltd%252euk%252f%26WD%3dcollet%26PN%3dcopy_of_copy_of_Table_Top_Tools___Accessories%252ehtml%2523a28200_2e_2e&WD=collet&PN=Soba_ER_Spring_Collets_Systems_%2d_NEW__%2ehtml%23a288311#a288311
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2fcgi%2dlocal%2fsh000001%2epl%3fREFPAGE%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252echronos%252eltd%252euk%252fcgi%252dlocal%252fsh000001%252epl%253fREFPAGE%253dhttp%25253a%25252f%25252fwww%25252echronos%25252eltd%25252euk%25252f%2526WD%253dcollet%2526PN%253dcopy_of_copy_of_Table_Top_Tools___Accessories%25252ehtml%252523a28200_2e_2e%26WD%3dcollet%26PN%3dSoba_ER_Spring_Collets_Systems_%252d_NEW__%252ehtml%2523a288311&WD=collet&PN=CHRONOS_2007_XMAS_OFFERS%2ehtml%23aCS2MI#aCS2MI
for lathe milling attachments see
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Miscellaneous_Milling_Accessories_101.html
Depending on what you are milling, a 6 inch right angle plate
with several clamps can be better than a vise in that it is much
more adjustible and somewhat less expensive. The trade-off is
that set-ups take longer.
For some hints on mounting a precision vise to your mill see
http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_mill/accessories/vises/vises.htm
{about 2/3 of the way down page}
http://www.instructables.com/id/making_vise_clamps_on_the_milling_machine/
also see
http://www.minitechcnc.com/options/Minimill%20options.htm
http://littlemachineshop.com/info/MiniMillUsersGuide.pdf
Let the group know how ypu make out.
Jim Wilkins
> ...
>
> That's mostly where I'm at in my thinking, so far. Used equipment is
> seldom seen on the Norwegian market, and when it is, it tends to be big
> and heavy commercial machines, with asking prices way out of my range.
> I have to compare it to a milling attachment for my mini-lathe, and it
> does seem to come out of that comparison pretty well.
>
> -tih
You might consider this vise which could be notched to align with the
tee slots easily.
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1145&category=1963256913
In practice a swivel base is almost never needed and you can mount the
vise at an angle with a tee slot clamp kit.
The old Wilton vise on my mill has a similar tee base for the sliding
jaw, with separate blocks underneath held by screws from above. After
clamping the jaw, tightening them pulls the work down onto the
parallels.
Can't you buy metric tooling and accessories for hobby machines in
Europe?
http://www.holz-metall.info/shop1/artikel1032.htm
For many years the prototype equipment I made has been metric but the
manual machine tools and end mills are inch. The combination is
annoying and makes extra work.
jsw
Gunner Asch
<t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote:
>"Michael Koblic" <mko...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> The bottom speed is quite high.
>
>Really? It goes down to 320 RPM. How low would one want a mill to go?
75 rpm
>
>> How easy is it to import into Norway? Will they sting you with
>> additional taxes and duties or just MVA?
>
>Well, importing something as heavy as a milling machine means the cost
>of shipping will exceed the cost of the machine. Then, there's the 25%
>sales tax, which applies to the cost of the machine *and* shipping.
>Basically, it's not worth it. :(
>
>-tih
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> Ah, cool! I could make an adapter for something like this:
>
> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3769
You would be VERY unhappy with that vise on a milling machine. The
visible screw threads into a shaft that's loosely pinned in place by a
rod through one of the holes in the base. The clamping range is little
more than the spacing between those holes. When you remove the rod the
shaft flops around and reinserting the rod through it is tricky. If
you happen to unscrew the screw completely when trying to open the
jaws just a bit more the shaft falls down and the only halfway easy
way to reconnect it is to stand the vise up on end so you can reach in
through the bottom. Then you've lost position on the table. I'm trying
it as I type and have sticky rust inhibitor on my fingers now.
They are more useful on a surface grinder magnetic chuck or when the
whole vise is clamped in the jaws of a larger milling vise, perhaps
tilted at an angle, or you have two of them and the CNC program works
on one while you load another blank into the other.
jsw
Jim Wilkins
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:08:53 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
>
> <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote:
>
> >> The bottom speed is quite high.
>
> >Really? It goes down to 320 RPM. How low would one want a mill to go?
>
> 75 rpm
The lowest speed on my mill is 180 RPM, which is about right for High
Speed Steel at a 50mm (2") cutting diameter and hasn't dulled a well-
lubed 100mm slitting saw cutting steel, yet. Slower by half would be
better for that.
jsw
danmitch
Agreed that a drill chuks should NOT be used to hold milling cutters.
Most milling cutters have hardened shanks that a chuck will NOT grip
adequately. The cutters will slip and pul out under load. This can make
a real mess of the work, and is potentially quite dangerous to the
operator. It's a BAD idea, even if the chuck is secured with a drawbar.
Collets, in good condition, properly seated, are usually acceptable for
holding milling cutters. This is especially true for small low powered
machines. An "End-Mill Holder" is certainly more secure, but can induce
small (usually not serious) runout problems.
For light precision work, use collets ... for heavy work use end-mill
holders.
DoN. Nichols
> sta...@prolynx.com wrote:
[ ... ]
>> Here's Varmint Al's take:
>> http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm#Milling_Attachment
>> The various bits are so low priced, you could make the attachment AND
>> get the mill/drill if that's what you wanted. I'd still make/buy a
>> drawbar setup for holding the milling cutters in the lathe, though,
>> mill shanks will walk out of chucks. Little Machineshop also has both
>> the drawbar and the "official" mini-lathe milling attachment.
>>
>> Stan
> Agreed that a drill chuks should NOT be used to hold milling cutters.
> Most milling cutters have hardened shanks that a chuck will NOT grip
> adequately. The cutters will slip and pul out under load. This can make
> a real mess of the work, and is potentially quite dangerous to the
> operator. It's a BAD idea, even if the chuck is secured with a drawbar.
There is an exception to this -- with chucks made by Albrecht
with diamond grit faced jaws which *can* grip a milling cutter shank
without slipping.
However -- these particular ones also don't come with Morse
Taper shanks, nor with Jacobs taper sockets. The come with integral R8
or 30, 40, or perhaps even 50 taper holders. I think that they are for
gripping solid carbide drill bits -- where even the shank is carbide. I
don't think that they advise using it for holding end mills anyway.
> Collets, in good condition, properly seated, are usually acceptable for
> holding milling cutters. This is especially true for small low powered
> machines. An "End-Mill Holder" is certainly more secure, but can induce
> small (usually not serious) runout problems.
Generally -- the runout is minimal with a Weldon shank end mill
in a quality end mill holder. The fit is so tight that you can create a
"pop" as it is drawn out if there is no through connection to the
drawbar for airflow.
And some of them are designed to be heated, and the shank put in
there at which point they shrink fit -- very strong grip, and
essentially no addition of runout.
Also -- for those in the UK and Australia -- look into Clarkson
collets. they are designed so the end mill *can't* be drawn out. The
end mill has a cylindrical shank with a threaded end and the holder has
a keyed nut which presses the center hole in the back of the end mill
against a center pip in the body of the holder. There is a collet
which tightens on the shank to maximize concentricity.
I've got some Clarkson holders -- but not any reasonable number
of matching end mills.
> For light precision work, use collets ... for heavy work use end-mill
> holders.
Yes -- because R8 collets (at least -- perhaps others) will let
the helical flute mills be drawn down under heavy cuts, resulting in a
cut which gets deeper as you go along -- and sometimes even continues
through the workpiece and into the mill's table. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
> out and buy one.
That just changed! :)
My thanks to all of you who offered helpful advice: your warnings caused
me to wait, think more carefully, and search more diligently for
alternatives. In the end, I came across a person who imports Taig
machines in his spare time, and, because he has no employees, and pays
no rent, is able to offer them for sale at very reasonable prices.
I'll be buying a Taig X2 mini-mill from him next week.
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
> out and buy one.
That just changed! :)
My thanks to all of you who offered helpful advice: your warnings caused
me to wait, think more carefully, and search more diligently for
alternatives. In the end, I came across a person who imports Taig
machines in his spare time, and, because he has no employees, and pays
no rent, is able to offer them for sale at very reasonable prices.
I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
> -tih
With metric dials and lead screws, I hope.
jsw
Michael Koblic
"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote in message
news:m2mxxwy...@athene.hamartun.priv.no...
<snip>
> I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
Are you sure? I did not know that Taig came out with a X2 version. They do
have a micro-mill, but that is considerably smaller than an X2:
http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html
Note the collet sizes, lowest speeds atc.
Don't get me wrong, I loved my Taig lathe but it does not begin to match my
X2.
You might want to make doubly sure what it is you are buying.
Jim Wilkins
> "Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote in messagenews:m2mxxwy...@athene.hamartun.priv.no...
> > I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
> You might want to make doubly sure what it is you are buying.
Congratulations, you've progressed from asking to answering.
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
>> I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
>
> Are you sure? I did not know that Taig came out with a X2
> version. They do have a micro-mill, but that is considerably smaller
> than an X2:
Oops! No, of course, that's wrong. I've been looking at too many
products, and I'm mixing up names. :) I meant Sieg Super X2, which is
their upgraded X2, with the 500W brushless motor.
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> With metric dials and lead screws, I hope.
Thanks - I should check that. It'd be somewhat confusing to have this
be different between my lathe and mill, I think. :)
Jim Wilkins
> Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> writes:
> > With metric dials and lead screws, I hope.
>
> Thanks - I should check that. It'd be somewhat confusing to have this
> be different between my lathe and mill, I think. :)
> -tih
I can work comfortably in either system as long as the graduations on
the machine are the same as the dimensions on the drawing. There are
too many things that demand close attention when machining to rely on
mental math.
Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> I can work comfortably in either system as long as the graduations on
> the machine are the same as the dimensions on the drawing. There are
> too many things that demand close attention when machining to rely on
> mental math.
>
> Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?
None at all. Not for a long time, now. We still speak of lumber in
inch dimensions, even though it's no longer actually cut like that (a
two-by-four is thinner here than in the US, but we still call it a
two-by-four in everyday parlance) -- but that's the only use I can think
of. Oh, one more: yardsticks are called "inch sticks" here, even though
they're now marked in metric units. :)
The mini-lathe I bought has a nice solution on the handwheel scales on
the cross- and topslide: since it's built for the European market, it
has metric lead screws throughout, and the slides advance 1 mm per
revolution of the handwheels. However, the scales are marked with 40
divisions. So, four units is a tenth of a millimeter, and each mark is
"a quarter of a tenth", or 0.025. Not too difficult, but why not 50
divisions? Because 1/40 mm is very close to 1/1000", and that's the
unit you see all over the literature, on the net, and so on. Smart!
Jim Wilkins
> Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> writes:
> > Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?
>
> None at all. Not for a long time, now. We still speak of lumber in
> inch dimensions, even though it's no longer actually cut like that (a
> two-by-four is thinner here than in the US, but we still call it a
> two-by-four in everyday parlance) -- but that's the only use I can think
> of. Oh, one more: yardsticks are called "inch sticks" here, even though
> they're now marked in metric units. :)
A "two-by-four" here is within carpenter's tolerance of 40 x 90mm, and
"inch" planks are 19 - 20mm thick.
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> A "two-by-four" here is within carpenter's tolerance of 40 x 90mm, and
> "inch" planks are 19 - 20mm thick.
OK, that's what we do, too. Whatever happened to the good old inch? :)
Jim Wilkins
> Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> writes:
> > A "two-by-four" here is within carpenter's tolerance of 40 x 90mm, and
> > "inch" planks are 19 - 20mm thick.
>
> OK, that's what we do, too. Whatever happened to the good old inch? :)
When I was a kid in the 1950's I 'helped' my father renovate old
houses. Some were built with rough-sawn framing a full 2" by 4", more
recent ones had planed framing timbers for easier handling that
averaged 1-1/2" to 1/5/8" by 3-1/2" to 3-3/4". At that time we could
have the millyard plane the rough wood to custom thickness to match
the house we were working on.
I saw my oak to a target thickness of 5/4".
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5107453242652915618
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> I saw my oak to a target thickness of 5/4".
> http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5107453242652915618
Looks cool! What is that thing? - and why?
Jim Wilkins
> Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> writes:
> > I saw my oak to a target thickness of 5/4".
> >http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5107453242652915618
>
> Looks cool! What is that thing? - and why?
It is a bandsaw mill made from a wrecked motorcycle and the engine
from my log splitter. I have a large library and use the planks for
bookshelves, and to rebuild my doors and windows. The trees on my
property are much too nice to waste as firewood when they die or blow
down, look behind the saw:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5107453006429714322
jsw
Larry Jaques
<kb1...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
eerie. I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
Har!
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
Jim Wilkins
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
>
> Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
> eerie. I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
> Har!
This shows that roof from the opposite direction after I put a shed
over the log pile:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/Firewood#5287788504883032706
The shadow isn't straight because these sheds are framed with tree
trunks that will be planks or firewood themselves some day. Building
them was good practice in case I ever take another maintenance job at
a Renaissance Festival.
jsw
Larry Jaques
<kb1...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>On Mar 27, 1:39 am, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
>> ...
>>
>> Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
>> eerie. I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
>> Har!
>
>This shows that roof from the opposite direction after I put a shed
>over the log pile:
>http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/Firewood#5287788504883032706
Hey, looks like a logging trailer made from an old boat trailer. ;)
>The shadow isn't straight because these sheds are framed with tree
>trunks that will be planks or firewood themselves some day. Building
It was the corrugated shadow that I was talking about. You can't see
the crossection of that in the pic you just showed me.
>them was good practice in case I ever take another maintenance job at
>a Renaissance Festival.
Cool.
Jim Wilkins
> O...
>
> Hey, looks like a logging trailer made from an old boat trailer. ;)
It was a single-place tilting snowmobile trailer that had flipped
over, so I got it for IIRC $20, then had a weldor cut and splice the
twisted tongue for another $10. It has been my longest-term test of
LPS-3, left outdoors since the 1970's without serious rust. The tongue
jack still unlocks and swivels down easily.
I should have made the tool box larger.
> It was the corrugated shadow that I was talking about. You can't see
> the crossection of that in the pic you just showed me.
Trust me, the roof is far from straight.
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
It arrived today. It's beautiful! :) Now I'm wishing my mini-lathe
had such a gorgeous motor and controller. Oh, well... :)
It came with this rather good-looking vise:
http://www.sieg-scandinavia.com/shop/sieg-vice-80mm-359p.html
I'm wondering, seeing the size of the thing, whether I might want a
smaller, simpler vise to go with it? Something like a cute little Kurt
vise, or even a screwless vise from, say, Little Machine Shop:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3763
Michael Koblic
"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote in message
news:m2iq8dp...@athene.hamartun.priv.no...
> I wrote:
>
>> I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
>
> It arrived today. It's beautiful! :) Now I'm wishing my mini-lathe
> had such a gorgeous motor and controller. Oh, well... :)
>
> It came with this rather good-looking vise:
>
> http://www.sieg-scandinavia.com/shop/sieg-vice-80mm-359p.html
>
> I'm wondering, seeing the size of the thing, whether I might want a
> smaller, simpler vise to go with it? Something like a cute little Kurt
> vise, or even a screwless vise from, say, Little Machine Shop:
>
> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3763
>
Congratulations!
Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:
1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity, Z-axis
space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were smaller than the
mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while to overcome this but
then I am slow...
2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by getting it
instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad choice. I had a look
at the smaller version in my local shop and I agree with him. It could be a
right PITA to operate.
F. George McDuffee
<t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote:
<snip>
>I'm wondering, seeing the size of the thing, whether I might want a
>smaller, simpler vise to go with it? Something like a cute little Kurt
>vise, or even a screwless vise
----------
Much will depend on the size and type of work that you are doing.
What are most of your projects?
Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Jim Wilkins
associates.us> wrote:
>...
> Much will depend on the size and type of work that you are doing.
> What are most of your projects?
>
> Unka George (George McDuffee)
You can narrow down the answer to that excellent but open-ended
question by deciding if the projects will be models or full-sized
working equipment, which in my case means repair parts for tools,
garden-type machinery and vehicles. You can choose the scale of a
model but have to make repair parts the same size as the originals.
I bought an RF-31 mill-drill once because it was large enough to drill
any spot on a 5-1/4" relay rack panel.
jsw
Michael Koblic
"Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c88130ee-c004-4682...@u32g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
That question needs to be asked *before* you get the X2. Once you bought it
it is pretty much answered...
Bill Noble
mill for $800, I think it has some tooling - on the left coast - if you are
interested, drop me a note and I'll forward the email - don't reply to this
message though - go to www.wbnoble.com to get a working email address
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:ph37r51n1ti8athht...@4ax.com...
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:
>
> 1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity,
> Z-axis space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were
> smaller than the mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while
> to overcome this but then I am slow...
Sounds good, but I'd be (possibly needlessly) worried because of the
size of the thing. I'd have to bolt it to the nearest T slot, which
would have almost half the bottom of the vise hanging in the air in
front of the table, and the work piece held over the rear edge of the
table. I guess the table and the vise are both stiff enough to let me
do this, but the zig-zag geometry of the fixtures feels wrong. At the
same time, the work piece is held quite high, adding moment arm to the
side forces trying to twist and turn the table.
I guess what I was thinking was that a smaller vise might sort of fit
the table better, and be bolted to it in a more symmetrical manner,
while holding the work piece over the table itself, and not more than an
inch, say, above it. Surely, the target, when mounting a work piece,
must be to get it as close to the table surface, and as centered on the
table, as possible?
> 2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by
> getting it instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad
> choice. I had a look at the smaller version in my local shop and I
> agree with him. It could be a right PITA to operate.
Ah, yes. That's the one he mentioned, of course. Anyway, I may be
worrying for no good reason -- but I still suspect that I might be
better off returning the ($150) Sieg vise, and looking for something
like the quick vise on <http://lmscnc.com/1145> instead.
Anyway, if I'm just being silly here, and should pipe down and make some
swarf instead, please tell me so! :)
Jim Wilkins
> "Michael Koblic" <mkob...@gmail.com> writes:
> [delete swivel base]
After you remove the vise from the swivel base you can attach it
anywhere on the table with a clamp kit:
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/clamping%20kit.jpg
They are excellent for work too large or awkward for the vise, like
boring an engine cylinder or drilling switch holes in a sheet aluminum
chassis.
Presumably the Y axis travel is about equal to the table Y width and
you can't move the table completely out from under the spindle, no?
Then the work-holding part of the vise should be over the table as
well. The rest of the vise can overhang.
On my mill the table is 6" wide front to rear, the vise is 16" long. I
had to cut off the fixed jaw end bolt-down tabs that banged into the
mill's column, and the screw end of the vise extends toward me so far
it interferes with the Y axis crank sometimes. With the jaws fully
open (110mm) the work is still over the table.
I like to position the vise such that when the table is fully forward
the largest end mill I commonly use is slightly behind the rear fixed
jaw, so it doesn't interfere with loading the vise. This means I can
run the table forward (Y) until the end mill is behind the work to
change Z without losing X position. However you do it you need to be
able to cut all the way back to the fixed jaw.
The two mills I've set up this way had the head mounted on a sliding
ram so I put the vise on first and then slid the head into position. I
was able to line up the vise mounting lugs with tee slots. I suppose
you could attach a vise that doesn't line up to a steel baseplate and
then drill the plate over the tee slots.
Once you are sure you will keep the vise you can mill a shallow slot
under the base for a locating bar that fits a tee slot. Then you don't
have to square up the vise whenever you remove and reinstall it.
jsw
RBnDFW
I bought the LMS 3" swivel vise last fall for my X2.
Removed the base to storage, mounted vise to the X2
Perfect fit, very pleased with it.
Michael Koblic
> "Michael Koblic" <mko...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:
>>
>> 1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity,
>> Z-axis space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were
>> smaller than the mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while
>> to overcome this but then I am slow...
>
> Sounds good, but I'd be (possibly needlessly) worried because of the
> size of the thing. I'd have to bolt it to the nearest T slot, which
> would have almost half the bottom of the vise hanging in the air in
> front of the table, and the work piece held over the rear edge of the
> table. I guess the table and the vise are both stiff enough to let me
> do this, but the zig-zag geometry of the fixtures feels wrong. At the
> same time, the work piece is held quite high, adding moment arm to the
> side forces trying to twist and turn the table.
That fixed jaw does look a bit far forward, granted. I cannot comment if
that matters or not. Can you measure the distance from the mounting holes to
the end of the fixed jaw along the Y-axis?
BTW for that money you can get *two* vises of different configurations :-)
> I guess what I was thinking was that a smaller vise might sort of fit
> the table better, and be bolted to it in a more symmetrical manner,
> while holding the work piece over the table itself, and not more than an
> inch, say, above it. Surely, the target, when mounting a work piece,
> must be to get it as close to the table surface, and as centered on the
> table, as possible?
>
>> 2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by
>> getting it instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad
>> choice. I had a look at the smaller version in my local shop and I
>> agree with him. It could be a right PITA to operate.
>
> Ah, yes. That's the one he mentioned, of course. Anyway, I may be
> worrying for no good reason -- but I still suspect that I might be
> better off returning the ($150) Sieg vise, and looking for something
> like the quick vise on <http://lmscnc.com/1145> instead.
That's a pretty good size, too! If your table is anything like mine it will
overhang quite a bit. I have a 2" vise and so far have not needed anything
bigger. OTOH a big vise will do the job of a smaller one but not vice versa
>
> Anyway, if I'm just being silly here, and should pipe down and make some
> swarf instead, please tell me so! :)
I don't know about the others but for me this sort of thread is the raison
d'etre of this group.
Michael Koblic
> Once you are sure you will keep the vise you can mill a shallow slot
> under the base for a locating bar that fits a tee slot. Then you don't
> have to square up the vise whenever you remove and reinstall it.
>
Into the base of the vise itself? Don't you have to remove the vise and turn
it over for that. I cannot visualize it...
Jim Wilkins
> "Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > Once you are sure you will keep the vise you can mill a shallow slot
> > under the base for a locating bar that fits a tee slot. Then you don't
> > have to square up the vise whenever you remove and reinstall it.
>
> Into the base of the vise itself? Don't you have to remove the vise and turn
> it over for that. I cannot visualize it...
>
> --
> Michael Koblic,
> Campbell River, BC
Yes. Make a rectangular bar thats a sliding fit in the tee slot, clamp
it part way into the slot with a block underneath and mill a narrow
step in both sides. The sides of the steps will then be parallel to
the X axis whether or not the tee slots are. They weren't on the
RF-31.
Clamp the vise upside down on the steps. Now the jaws are parallel to
the X axis. Mill a *shallow* slot in the base to accept the stepped
side of the bar. I try for a finger-tight press fit. Drill and tap for
two screws to hold the bar on when you pull the vise off the table.
Only the width of the slot and the bar need match, the slot doesn't
have to take the full depth of the step in the bar. After milling the
steps I smoothed them and beveled the top edges with a file before
cutting the slot in the vise base.
I haven't tried it but I think you could make the bar extend beyond
the sides of the vise and put nut plates under it to clamp the vise
down to the table if the built-in mounting tabs don't line up with tee
slots.
I hope that's clear. It's hard to take a fresh look at it after
editing it over and over for an hour.
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> After you remove the vise from the swivel base you can attach it
> anywhere on the table with a clamp kit:
Yup - I have one of those kits; the standard 42 piece 12mm (7/16")
T-slot, M10 threaded kit. I had to find a couple of M10 screws and cut
the heads off them to be able to clamp the vise, though: the clamp kit
can't clamp anything that thin, because even the shortest of the
supplied studs are too long. (They have this non-threaded bit in the
middle that limits how close to the table you can get the nut.)
In fact, I'm a tiny bit miffed at Sieg for not including any mounting
hardware for the vise with either the mill or the vise. The mill came
with two T-nuts. Would it bankrupt them to include the right size studs
and nuts, too, so it was ready to accept a vise? I'd happily forgo yet
another set of cheap and ugly end wrenches to offset the cost. :)
> On my mill the table is 6" wide front to rear, the vise is 16" long.
> [setup description elided]
Wow! OK, I'm not going to worry about the vise overhanging the table.
I'll just make sure I've got it clamped so that it's firmly held to the
center of the table, with the work piece held so that it, too, is over
the table itself.
Thanks for your help!
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> I hope that's clear. It's hard to take a fresh look at it after
> editing it over and over for an hour.
It is. This would save a lot of fiddling with a dial indicator to
square off the vise each time it is mounted. A fun project, too!
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> That fixed jaw does look a bit far forward, granted. I cannot comment
> if that matters or not. Can you measure the distance from the mounting
> holes to the end of the fixed jaw along the Y-axis?
About 6cm (2 1/3"). Not an awful lot, but it means I have to bolt it to
the frontmost T-slot to keep the work piece over the table. However, if
I'm going to do as Jim suggests, and make it self-aligning, I think I'll
drill a couple of new mounting holes, as well, so the vise can be bolted
to the central T-slot, while the alignment bar sits in one of the other
ones, with the face of the fixed jaw suitably placed near the rear edge
of the table.
> BTW for that money you can get *two* vises of different configurations :-)
Not over here, you can't. :)
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> > On my mill the table is 6" wide front to rear, the vise is 16" long.
> > [setup description elided]
Three periods is the "proper" way to indicate omitted text, if you
care:
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/ellipsis.htm
Officially I should put spaces between them, and would if someone was
paying me for this.
jsw
RBnDFW
Ditto. thanks for starting this one up.
While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
smaller screwless vise for small work
Jim Wilkins
> ...
>
> While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
> smaller screwless vise for small work
If you find a good sale price two identical ones are useful to hold
long narrow work, like 8mm square brass bars. You could for instance
grab both ends of a thin bar and block the two vises high enough to
clear the bed of your main milling vise, then step the work through
the main vise as you mill the top edge. Narrow strips are otherwise
difficult to cut down unless you have even narrower parallels to
support them.
I have only used a screwless vise on the surface grinder where the
fussiness of moving the inner bar doesn't matter.
jsw
F. George McDuffee
wrote:
<snip>
>While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
>smaller screwless vise for small work
A smaller vise can be handy, especially if you can clamp the
smaller vise in the larger vise as this will allow you to
cut/drill compound angle holes at some cost saving over a
compound angle vise. Note that you can do the same thing with a
slotted right angle block with some loss in tool/table clearance
but some additional cost savings.
You will of course need some way to set/check the angles. While
somewhat expensive I find one of the small 3inch/75mm magnetic
sine bars to be very useful. Also get a space block set or use
feeler gages to set.
It all depends on the size/kind of the parts you will be making.
[inch] examples of
magnetic sine bar
http://www.hhip.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3800-5410
space block set [same as jo blocks for home shop use at 10% of
the price]
http://www.hhip.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3101-0003
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=630-4050&PMPXNO=950511&PARTPG=INLMK32
right angle plate
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=462&PMITEM=418-4325
Michael Koblic
Yes. That is very clever! And useful. I have my vise mounted slightly to the
side so I can mount my 4" 3-jaw chuck on the other half of the table. As it
is they still fight for space.
I gotta look at this seriously.
Michael Koblic
"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote in message
news:m2pr2in...@athene.hamartun.priv.no...
> Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> After you remove the vise from the swivel base you can attach it
>> anywhere on the table with a clamp kit:
>
> Yup - I have one of those kits; the standard 42 piece 12mm (7/16")
> T-slot, M10 threaded kit. I had to find a couple of M10 screws and cut
> the heads off them to be able to clamp the vise, though: the clamp kit
> can't clamp anything that thin, because even the shortest of the
> supplied studs are too long. (They have this non-threaded bit in the
> middle that limits how close to the table you can get the nut.)
Can't you just use short bolts? I do.
The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes were
only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut off some
3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut the appropriate
size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and the top through the
holes in the base and I do not take up additional space through having to
use the clamps.
Jim Wilkins
associates.us> wrote:
> ...
> A smaller vise can be handy, especially if you can clamp the
> smaller vise in the larger vise as this will allow you to
> cut/drill compound angle holes at some cost saving over a
> Unka George (George McDuffee)
In practice I've only needed to mill a few common angles and a set
like this was good enough:
http://www.cvtech.com.au/tooling/tmaking/sb2.JPG
jsw
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
>> Yup - I have one of those kits; the standard 42 piece 12mm (7/16")
>> T-slot, M10 threaded kit. I had to find a couple of M10 screws and cut
>> the heads off them to be able to clamp the vise, though: the clamp kit
>> can't clamp anything that thin, because even the shortest of the
>> supplied studs are too long. (They have this non-threaded bit in the
>> middle that limits how close to the table you can get the nut.)
>
> Can't you just use short bolts? I do.
Of course -- but I didn't have any that were short enough, and since I
had to cut them down anyway, I chose to make suitable studs that could
be used with the clamping kit, too. (I couldn't go out and buy short
bolts, either, because it's Easter, and Norway is officially Lutheran
Protestant Christian. Easter being a big deal for the Christians, the
whole country comes to a complete halt for five days. Suits me fine: I
have five days off to tidy up my home workshop and get this mill set up
and working.)
> The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes
> were only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut
> off some 3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut
> the appropriate size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and
> the top through the holes in the base and I do not take up additional
> space through having to use the clamps.
That's clever! You can still use the swivel base if you need to, since
you haven't modified the vise in any way. How did you hold the bolts
when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
thread?
Michael Koblic
>> The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes
>> were only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut
>> off some 3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut
>> the appropriate size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and
>> the top through the holes in the base and I do not take up additional
>> space through having to use the clamps.
>
> That's clever! You can still use the swivel base if you need to, since
> you haven't modified the vise in any way. How did you hold the bolts
> when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
> thread?
I did it in my Taig which has a 3-jaw with aluminium jaws. I tried with two
hex nuts etc. but in the end I just gripped them and ripped them. The
advantage - no damage to the threads. The PITA - the alu jaws do not grip
well enough to allow threading. On anything.
DoN. Nichols
Hmm ... turn a ring for the OD of the aluminum jaws (or for
steps which you have turned on them to make them look like standard
chuck jaws) and expand the jaws into it to leave a grip diameter just a
little larger than as small as you can. Then drill the jaws (expanded
into the ring) to the tap drill size and start a tap into this on the
lathe with the rear end held in line by the tailstock center. Once the
tap is started, remove the chuck from the lathe and grip it in a vise
and finish tapping the jaws as deep as is reasonable for holding your
threaded stock. Then you can loosen the chuck (after removing the ring)
and easily thread the screw stock into it and clamp down on the thread
having much more grip surface.
Or -- if you don't have soft jaws, take some aluminum of say 1"
OD (assuming your thread size is 1/2" or less), center drill it and
drill to tap size on the lathe while holding it in the 3-jaw chuck and
tap as before. Then remove from the chuck, and put a slitting saw in
your mill and cut a radial slit from the OD to the center hole. Now,
put it back in the lathe chuck, orient the slit directly opposite one of
the jaws, screw in your screw while it is loose, then tighten the chuck
to close the slit and grip the thread.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Jim Wilkins
> "Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote in messagenews:m239zco...@athene.hamartun.priv.no...
> > when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
> > thread?
>
> I did it in my Taig which has a 3-jaw with aluminium jaws. I tried with two
> hex nuts etc. but in the end I just gripped them and ripped them. The
> advantage - no damage to the threads. The PITA - the alu jaws do not grip
> well enough to allow threading. On anything.
> Campbell River, BC
I've gotten slightly better results with a threaded rod coupler and a
hex nut. It still doesn't run true but there's more to grab.
If the job is worth it I make a cup out of 1" drill rod and thread a
hole in the bottom, starting the thread on the lathe and finishing it
with a tap, which cuts much better when it has only a little to
remove. This is faster than lathe threading to final size.
This one here is tapped 1/2-13. The bottom of the cup is barely two
threads thick or about 4mm and that has proven strong enough to turn
down a pile of stainless steel bolts for Segway battery mounting
studs. The head tightened within the cup or a nut on the outside keeps
the bolt from wobbling.
I made them to use in 5C collets, and short enough to tighten the bolt
head with a wrench. If you make them for a chuck a pipe cap turned
cylindrical on the OD might be better to leave room for a socket
wrench inside. I'd thread the cap onto a nipple to chuck it and cut
both the OD and the thread for best concentricity. Face off around the
hole afterwards so the bolt doesn't tilt when tightened.
jsw
Michael Koblic
"DoN. Nichols" <dnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:slrnhrfuf7....@Katana.d-and-d.com...
Yikes! A bit of an overkill for just two bolts.
> Or -- if you don't have soft jaws, take some aluminum of say 1"
> OD (assuming your thread size is 1/2" or less), center drill it and
> drill to tap size on the lathe while holding it in the 3-jaw chuck and
> tap as before. Then remove from the chuck, and put a slitting saw in
> your mill and cut a radial slit from the OD to the center hole. Now,
> put it back in the lathe chuck, orient the slit directly opposite one of
> the jaws, screw in your screw while it is loose, then tighten the chuck
> to close the slit and grip the thread.
I can see that one. Presumably steel jaws will grip into the aluminum
outside and prevent rotation. I found that *anything* held in the aluminum
jaws was not held strongly enough for cutting outside threads. Perhaps it is
a function of the chuck tightening mechanism, too (two tommy bars rather
than a key). With smaller stuff (my gnomons) I got around it by using the
1/8" collet. But forgret anything over 1/4".
Jim Wilkins
> "DoN. Nichols" <dnich...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
A quick, simple and less accurate way to do that is to wrap a piece of
sheet aluminum into a tube that doesn't quite close.
Cut a piece of 1/16" sheet the length you want and 3 times the
diameter. Lay the sheet across opened vise jaws, center the rod and
hammer the sheet into a U. Use the vise to close the sides nearly
parallel until you can clamp the U and rod in the vise with nearly
half the rod diameter above the jaws and knock the edges in further,
then finish the tube by squeezing it tighter around the rod with the
jaws, working all around. It may come out better in a smooth-jawed
milling vise.
jsw
DoN. Nichols
>
> "DoN. Nichols" <dnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnhrfuf7....@Katana.d-and-d.com...
[ ... ]
>> Hmm ... turn a ring for the OD of the aluminum jaws (or for
>> steps which you have turned on them to make them look like standard
>> chuck jaws) and expand the jaws into it to leave a grip diameter just a
[ ... ]
> Yikes! A bit of an overkill for just two bolts.
Yes -- it makes more sense with more to do -- but consider
future use and mark the jaws in slot number order so you can re-use them
again at need. (Oh yes -- you can also turn the jaws around and use the
other end for a different special holder.
>> Or -- if you don't have soft jaws, take some aluminum of say 1"
>> OD (assuming your thread size is 1/2" or less), center drill it and
>> drill to tap size on the lathe while holding it in the 3-jaw chuck and
>> tap as before. Then remove from the chuck, and put a slitting saw in
>> your mill and cut a radial slit from the OD to the center hole. Now,
>> put it back in the lathe chuck, orient the slit directly opposite one of
>> the jaws, screw in your screw while it is loose, then tighten the chuck
>> to close the slit and grip the thread.
>
> I can see that one. Presumably steel jaws will grip into the aluminum
> outside and prevent rotation. I found that *anything* held in the aluminum
> jaws was not held strongly enough for cutting outside threads.
How were you cutting the threads? Given that the lathe was a
Taig, I suspect that you were using a die. Single point cutting (in
multiple passes) the thread using a geared lathe feed generates a lot
less force, so you can cut threads without the workpiece slipping like
it was for you.
BTW Aluminum jaws gripping an aluminum "threaded collet" such as I
described above will grip better than smooth steel jaws on
aluminum -- though most steel jaws are not smooth. :-)
But if you bore a set of the aluminum jaws to a close fit on the
collet you just made, you will have better grip -- especially
considering that aluminum on aluminum tends to gall, improving
your grip. :-)
And -- you can take some valve grinding compound, and roll the
OD of the collet in that (with some force), so when the jaws are
tightened, the jaws grip a lot better by embedding the compound
in both the jaws and the OD of the collet.
> Perhaps it is
> a function of the chuck tightening mechanism, too (two tommy bars rather
> than a key). With smaller stuff (my gnomons) I got around it by using the
> 1/8" collet. But forgret anything over 1/4".
Longer Tommy bars will give more leverage. Make them of a
larger diameter steel, with the ends turned down to fit the holes and to
bottom with very little turned down diameter left extending. Perhaps
make them of drill rod, and harden and draw appropriately. You don't
want them too hard (brittle), but you want them harder than the supplied
state of the drill rod.
But be careful to not make them too long, or you will deform the
holes in the chuck body and the scroll plate. Consider that my Taig
3-jaw only has the holes in the scroll plate, and I need to grip by the
chuck jaws to keep it from turning. (Hmm ... I probably should drill
holes for the Tommy bars in the chuck body to go with those in the
scroll plate.)
But yes -- the chuck key is giving you a *lot* of leverage for
tightening the scroll plate.
BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
chuck jaws on the workpiece.
Good Luck,
RBnDFW
> On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:57:07 -0500, RBnDFW <burkh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> <snip>
>> While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
>> smaller screwless vise for small work
> <snip>
> A smaller vise can be handy, especially if you can clamp the
> smaller vise in the larger vise as this will allow you to
> cut/drill compound angle holes at some cost saving over a
> compound angle vise. Note that you can do the same thing with a
> slotted right angle block with some loss in tool/table clearance
> but some additional cost savings.
>
> You will of course need some way to set/check the angles. While
> somewhat expensive I find one of the small 3inch/75mm magnetic
> sine bars to be very useful. Also get a space block set or use
> feeler gages to set.
>
> It all depends on the size/kind of the parts you will be making.
> [inch] examples of
> magnetic sine bar
> http://www.hhip.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3800-5410
that is cute as hell, but $160??
> space block set [same as jo blocks for home shop use at 10% of
> the price]
> http://www.hhip.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3101-0003
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=630-4050&PMPXNO=950511&PARTPG=INLMK32
that Enco set for $29.95 looks like a great deal. thanks!
Jim Wilkins
>
> that Enco set for $29.95 looks like a great deal. thanks!
It's tricky to set up an insert vise on those thin angle blocks in a
milling vise. Unless you can c-clamp the blocks to the fixed jaw there
are too many loose parts to hold snugly in place as you tighten the
jaws. The thicker ones I suggested will stay in place by gravity,
their problem is excessive height if you have to stack the notched
ones.
Alternatively you can clamp a guide to the fixed jaw or to a large
slotted angle bolted to the table and use the thin angle blocks to
adjust it to the desired angle.
jsw
Michael Koblic
> On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "DoN. Nichols" <dnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnhrfuf7....@Katana.d-and-d.com...
>
> [ ... ]
> BTW Aluminum jaws gripping an aluminum "threaded collet" such as I
> described above will grip better than smooth steel jaws on
> aluminum -- though most steel jaws are not smooth. :-)
>
> But if you bore a set of the aluminum jaws to a close fit on the
> collet you just made, you will have better grip -- especially
> considering that aluminum on aluminum tends to gall, improving
> your grip. :-)
>
> And -- you can take some valve grinding compound, and roll the
> OD of the collet in that (with some force), so when the jaws are
> tightened, the jaws grip a lot better by embedding the compound
> in both the jaws and the OD of the collet.
Is that a problem with steel jaws for later use?
I need some lapping compound for another purpose (lapping dovetails) so I
shall go hunting this week. It is always so much fun watching the faces of
the shop assistants when you ask for something like that...
[...]
> Longer Tommy bars will give more leverage. Make them of a
> larger diameter steel, with the ends turned down to fit the holes and to
> bottom with very little turned down diameter left extending. Perhaps
> make them of drill rod, and harden and draw appropriately. You don't
> want them too hard (brittle), but you want them harder than the supplied
> state of the drill rod.
I put wooden handles on the wood lathe ones.
> But be careful to not make them too long, or you will deform the
> holes in the chuck body and the scroll plate. Consider that my Taig
> 3-jaw only has the holes in the scroll plate, and I need to grip by the
> chuck jaws to keep it from turning. (Hmm ... I probably should drill
> holes for the Tommy bars in the chuck body to go with those in the
> scroll plate.)
>
> But yes -- the chuck key is giving you a *lot* of leverage for
> tightening the scroll plate.
I was kind of concerned - I can make the bars bend in my hands alone. Lord
knows what would happen with more leverage.
>
> BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
> have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
> tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
> chuck jaws on the workpiece.
A squirt of graphite as per T-nut post. But I guess it could be better. It
is hard to know without having any standards to compare.
DoN. Nichols
>
> "DoN. Nichols" <dnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnhriogd....@Katana.d-and-d.com...
>> On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "DoN. Nichols" <dnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnhrfuf7....@Katana.d-and-d.com...
>>
>> [ ... ]
>
>> BTW Aluminum jaws gripping an aluminum "threaded collet" such as I
>> described above will grip better than smooth steel jaws on
>> aluminum -- though most steel jaws are not smooth. :-)
>>
>> But if you bore a set of the aluminum jaws to a close fit on the
>> collet you just made, you will have better grip -- especially
>> considering that aluminum on aluminum tends to gall, improving
>> your grip. :-)
>>
>> And -- you can take some valve grinding compound, and roll the
>> OD of the collet in that (with some force), so when the jaws are
>> tightened, the jaws grip a lot better by embedding the compound
>> in both the jaws and the OD of the collet.
>
> Is that a problem with steel jaws for later use?
Not really. If the jaws are hardened steel, they will simply
crush the compound deeper into the collet's OD. If they are mild steel,
you will get a better grip than you would otherwise have. Note that
Albrecht make a drill chuck which has diamond impregnated jaws for
avoiding slipping on hardened and ground tool shanks (typically milling
cutters, as standard drill bits have shanks of mild steel for easier
gripping, while the flutes and tip are HSS.
> I need some lapping compound for another purpose (lapping dovetails) so I
> shall go hunting this week. It is always so much fun watching the faces of
> the shop assistants when you ask for something like that...
And watch them try to come up with obscene interpretations of
what you are asking for? :-)
> [...]
>
>> Longer Tommy bars will give more leverage. Make them of a
>> larger diameter steel, with the ends turned down to fit the holes and to
>> bottom with very little turned down diameter left extending. Perhaps
>> make them of drill rod, and harden and draw appropriately. You don't
>> want them too hard (brittle), but you want them harder than the supplied
>> state of the drill rod.
>
> I put wooden handles on the wood lathe ones.
Your wood lathe has that kind of chuck?
>> But be careful to not make them too long, or you will deform the
>> holes in the chuck body and the scroll plate. Consider that my Taig
>> 3-jaw only has the holes in the scroll plate, and I need to grip by the
>> chuck jaws to keep it from turning. (Hmm ... I probably should drill
>> holes for the Tommy bars in the chuck body to go with those in the
>> scroll plate.)
>>
>> But yes -- the chuck key is giving you a *lot* of leverage for
>> tightening the scroll plate.
>
> I was kind of concerned - I can make the bars bend in my hands alone. Lord
> knows what would happen with more leverage.
Then you need hardened and drawn drill rod, with the larger
diameter just outside the hole minimizing the bending. If you just
harden it fully, it will be too brittle and be likely to break of right
at the chuck body. So after hardening (for an oil or water hardening
drill rod -- be sure to use the proper quench agent for each) you can
re-heat it to a lower temperature -- at a guess about 450 F would be
reasonable and then leave it to cool normally. Air hardening drill rod
is difficult to get to less hard than your original quench produced, so
that should be avoided for this purpose. However, it is nice when you
are experiencing warpage when you quench because the air cooling is a
lot more gentle.
>> BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
>> have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
>> tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
>> chuck jaws on the workpiece.
>
> A squirt of graphite as per T-nut post. But I guess it could be better. It
> is hard to know without having any standards to compare.
Did you work it in fully after squirting it? BTW -- Teenut
worked with serious sized industrial machines, and might have given
different advice for lubricating a chuck as small as a that used on a
Taig. (That advice might have been "Get a bigger machine" :-)
A pity that he is no longer with us.
Enjoy,
DoN. Nichols
> On Apr 5, 11:43 am, RBnDFW <burkhei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> >http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=630-4050&PMPXNO=950511&PARTP...
>>
>> that Enco set for $29.95 looks like a great deal. thanks!
>
> It's tricky to set up an insert vise on those thin angle blocks in a
> milling vise. Unless you can c-clamp the blocks to the fixed jaw there
> are too many loose parts to hold snugly in place as you tighten the
> jaws. The thicker ones I suggested will stay in place by gravity,
> their problem is excessive height if you have to stack the notched
> ones.
Or -- you could use a sine bar and a cheap set of Chinese gauge
blocks to set the angle of the vise, then once it is clamped firmly,
slide the gauge blocks and the sine bar out from under it. Typical sine
bars are 5", larger ones 10", but I have one 2.5" one which is nice in a
small machine vise. (Of course, you have to adjust the size of the
gauge block stack for the length of the bar.) But the sine bar is a
real winner when you need an angle which would require several angel
blocks to build up the proper angle.
Or -- you could clamp the workpiece close to the right angle
(set by a protractor or the like) and place the sine bar and the gauge
blocks on top of it in reverse and use a dial test indicator to tell
when you have the right angle (zero change when the angle is right).
> Alternatively you can clamp a guide to the fixed jaw or to a large
> slotted angle bolted to the table and use the thin angle blocks to
> adjust it to the desired angle.
Yes.
Jim Wilkins
> On 2010-04-05, Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Or -- you could use a sine bar and a cheap set of Chinese gauge
> blocks to set the angle of the vise, then once it is clamped firmly,
> slide the gauge blocks and the sine bar out from under it. Typical sine
> bars are 5", larger ones 10", but I have one 2.5" one which is nice in a
> small machine vise. (Of course, you have to adjust the size of the
> gauge block stack for the length of the bar.) But the sine bar is a
> real winner when you need an angle which would require several angel
> blocks to build up the proper angle.
The 2.5" sine bar sounds like a good idea. The shortest one I have is
3" which is also the width of the bed of the vise and it slips off too
easily.
I don't think I've ever had to mill a flat surface at an angle that
wasn't an integral number of degrees, usually a multiple of 5, so the
angle block set has been more useful than my gage blocks. I've used
them with a sine bar only to measure the angle of a conical taper.
The tooth cutter for the tractor steering sector was ground for a 20
degrees pressure angle with a correction for side clearance, but I set
that up in a 3-way-swiveling Univise.
jsw
Michael Koblic
>>>
>>> [ ... ]
>> I need some lapping compound for another purpose (lapping dovetails) so I
>> shall go hunting this week. It is always so much fun watching the faces
>> of
>> the shop assistants when you ask for something like that...
>
> And watch them try to come up with obscene interpretations of
> what you are asking for? :-)
That would imply that they possess a) sense of humor and b) intelligence.
There is a game I play with my wife. We bet on the assistants' responses.
When asked "Can I help you?" while looking at an item one initiates the game
by responding: "Does this thing do (fill in as appropriate)?"
For 5 points the assistant starts reading the information on the packet.
For 10 points he starts lying through his teeth.
There are many variations....
>> [...]
>> I put wooden handles on the wood lathe ones.
>
> Your wood lathe has that kind of chuck?
Nova Midi (Teknatool).
[...]
>> I was kind of concerned - I can make the bars bend in my hands alone.
>> Lord
>> knows what would happen with more leverage.
>
> Then you need hardened and drawn drill rod, with the larger
> diameter just outside the hole minimizing the bending. If you just
> harden it fully, it will be too brittle and be likely to break of right
> at the chuck body. So after hardening (for an oil or water hardening
> drill rod -- be sure to use the proper quench agent for each) you can
> re-heat it to a lower temperature -- at a guess about 450 F would be
> reasonable and then leave it to cool normally. Air hardening drill rod
> is difficult to get to less hard than your original quench produced, so
> that should be avoided for this purpose. However, it is nice when you
> are experiencing warpage when you quench because the air cooling is a
> lot more gentle.
I am getting old and feeble in a hurry. It won't be an issue much longer.
>>> BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
>>> have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
>>> tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
>>> chuck jaws on the workpiece.
>>
>> A squirt of graphite as per T-nut post. But I guess it could be better.
>> It
>> is hard to know without having any standards to compare.
>
> Did you work it in fully after squirting it? BTW -- Teenut
> worked with serious sized industrial machines, and might have given
> different advice for lubricating a chuck as small as a that used on a
> Taig. (That advice might have been "Get a bigger machine" :-)
>
> A pity that he is no longer with us.
He did not say anything about working it in! I squirt it in and run the
chuck scroll through the range of motion. Then I mount the chuck on the
spindle. Then I forget that I left some oil somewhere in the chuck recesses.
Then I wipe the oil/graphite solution off my face and everything else...( I
only read his post recently - before, I put oil everywhere and wondered why
the chucks were a bugger to clean).
The info, BTW, comes from his post where he strongly advises home machine
owners *not* to use way oil and use *detergent* motor oil for the ways
amongst other things. I probably should not have mentioned it. I can see
scores of people reading it spontaneously combusting...
DoN. Nichols
> On Apr 6, 10:06 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <dnich...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>> On 2010-04-05, Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> Or -- you could use a sine bar and a cheap set of Chinese gauge
>> blocks to set the angle of the vise, then once it is clamped firmly,
>> slide the gauge blocks and the sine bar out from under it. Typical sine
>> bars are 5", larger ones 10", but I have one 2.5" one which is nice in a
>> small machine vise. (Of course, you have to adjust the size of the
>> gauge block stack for the length of the bar.) But the sine bar is a
>> real winner when you need an angle which would require several angel
>> blocks to build up the proper angle.
>> DoN.
>
> The 2.5" sine bar sounds like a good idea. The shortest one I have is
> 3" which is also the width of the bed of the vise and it slips off too
> easily.
Take a single parallel and lay it down on the clean bed of the
vise, so your 3" sine bar footprint won't cause problems.
> I don't think I've ever had to mill a flat surface at an angle that
> wasn't an integral number of degrees, usually a multiple of 5, so the
> angle block set has been more useful than my gage blocks. I've used
> them with a sine bar only to measure the angle of a conical taper.
I've used the 2.5" sine bar in my shaper's vise to make a piece
of aluminum have half the included angle of an Acme thread to use it in
a toolmaker's vise for setting the half-angle on my surface grinder for
making a couple of Acme threading tools. The toolmaker's vise was
mounted on a sine plate to set the relief angles for the particular
thread pitch being cut -- reversed for the internal threading tool of
course.
> The tooth cutter for the tractor steering sector was ground for a 20
> degrees pressure angle with a correction for side clearance, but I set
> that up in a 3-way-swiveling Univise.
O.K. I don't have one of those.
Jim Wilkins
> On 2010-04-07, Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 6, 10:06 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <dnich...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> >> On 2010-04-05, Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> ...
> vise, so your 3" sine bar footprint won't cause problems.
They are thin sine bars like (A):
http://www.penntoolco.com/images/catalog/4820.gif
which were a waste of money. They are almost too tall for my milling
vise anyway.
> > I don't think I've ever had to mill a flat surface at an angle that
> > wasn't an integral number of degrees, usually a multiple of 5, so the
> > angle block set has been more useful than my gage blocks. I've used
> > them with a sine bar only to measure the angle of a conical taper.
>
> I've used the 2.5" sine bar in my shaper's vise to make a piece
> of aluminum have half the included angle of an Acme thread to use it in
> a toolmaker's vise for setting the half-angle on my surface grinder for
> making a couple of Acme threading tools. The toolmaker's vise was
> mounted on a sine plate to set the relief angles for the particular
> thread pitch being cut -- reversed for the internal threading tool of
> course.
...
> > ...3-way-swiveling Univise.
>
> O.K. I don't have one of those.
> DoN.
The Univise was adequate for my gear cutter but it would be difficult
to set close enough for a precision Acme thread. I bought it to use as
the base of a Quorn-style tool holder.
There are half and quarter degree plates available for the angle block
sets.
jsw