Lessons from Japan
Too_Many_Tools
earthquake.
Having friends there in the affected areas, they have noted that
landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
Cell phone and cable/fiber service is almost nonexistent.
Water and power is sporadic at best.
Many people have only what they could grab and run with...so Bug Out
Bags do matter.
Many of those I know have yet to see anyone from the Government...so
they are on their own.
The weather is turning colder/snow so keeping warm without heat is the
theme of the day.
FWIW...I just returned from Maui and was there when the tsuami warning
was in effect...very interesting. Hawaii has gotten serious about
tsuami warnings since the Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004...California
has much to learn yet.
TMT
Boatlocker
news:7a85618b-8686-4574...@u6g2000vbh.googlegroups.com:
> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
> earthquake.
You know what thought did. Especially yours.
Too_Many_Tools
I should add that those locals with ham radios have been especially
important in maintaining lines of communications open. My
understanding is that most towers collapsed but the operators are
using jury rigged longwire antennas.
TMT
steamer
That might be saving their bacon..
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
Shall not be infringed
> --Yah I wondered about that; how prevalent is ham radio in Japan?
> That might be saving their bacon..
Extremely prevalent. I made the mistake of operating in a JA
contest. Every last one of them QSLd me.
Boris Kapusta
The Japan ARL has requested that the following frequencies be kept
clear for emergency use: 3.525, 7.030, 14.100, 21.200 and 28.200MHz.
Please avoid those frequencies for the duration of the current
exercise.
Boris Kapusta
Nobody believes your bullshit. We know for a fact that you never leave
your mommies' (both of them) basement.
Too_Many_Tools
FYI..
My friends tell me that they have seen no looting.
And in a country where guns are rare, there seems to be no need for
them in this disaster.
We'll see what the next days and weeks bring.
TMT
With aid slow to come Japanese fend for themselves
By KRISTEN GELINEAU and FOSTER KLUG, Associated Press Kristen Gelineau
And Foster Klug, Associated Press
Fri Mar 18, 11:13 am ET
KARAKUWA, Japan – There may be no water, no power and no cell phone
reception in this tsunami-struck town, but in the school that serves
as a shelter, there are sizzling pans of fat, pink shrimp.
Relief supplies have only trickled into the long strip of northeast
Japan demolished by a powerful earthquake and the wave it unleashed a
week ago, leaving affected communities to fend for themselves.
Many have risen to the occasion.
No water for the toilets? No problem. Students in Karakuwa bring
buckets of water from the school swimming pool to give survivors the
dignity of a proper flush. In the kitchen, a giant rice cooker given
to the school by a resident sits on a table, steam rising from the
heaping mounds of rice inside.
"For a long time, in the countryside, even if you didn't have enough
for yourself, you shared with others," said Noriko Sasaki, 63, as she
sat on the ground outside another relief center in the town. "That is
our culture. Even if they're not relatives, we feel as if they're
sisters or brothers."
There are hardships — a junior high hardly offers the comforts of
home — and while the sense of community runs all along the coast,
not all survivors are as well off.
[Related: Carriers offering free calls to Japan]
Blustery snow, fuel shortages and widespread damage to airports, roads
and rails have hampered delivery of badly needed assistance to more
than 450,000 homeless trying to stay fed and warm, often without
electricity and running water in shelters cobbled together in schools
and other public buildings.
More than 6,900 people are confirmed dead so far and another 10,700
are missing. The disaster also damaged a seaside nuclear power plant,
which remains in crisis as workers struggle under dangerous conditions
to prevent a meltdown and major radiation leaks.
In the flattened hamlet of Shizugawa, Koji Sato, a carpenter who
usually builds homes, is making coffins.
He said he hasn't had time to really think about the hardship he's
faced. "All I have been doing is making coffins."
In Hirota, helicopters have delivered some food, but not much. So far,
the survivors have instant noodles, fruit and bread. Water comes from
wells and mountain rivers. Companies and residents unaffected by the
disaster have donated bedding and blankets.
Kouetsu Sasaki, a 60-year-old city hall worker, said they still need
gas, vegetables, socks, underwear, wet wipes and anti-bacterial
lotion. There is some medicine, but not enough.
"People here aren't angry or frustrated yet. ... But it's a big
question mark whether we can keep living like this for weeks or
months," said Sasaki, who is not related to Noriko. "I try to
concentrate on what I need to do this morning, this day, and not think
about how long it might last."
With roads and airport runways being cleared of debris, aid workers
hope to ramp up relief soon.
Helicopters operating from two U.S. aircraft carriers off the coast of
Japan are already ferrying in supplies.
Two American helicopters touched down on a hilltop above Shizugawa on
Friday with boxes of canned beans and powdered milk for a community
center that has become a shelter for those who lost their homes.
But snow has limited helicopter flights, and American aircraft are
also under orders to skirt the area around the nuclear plant to reduce
the risk of radiation exposure.
The region can expect some relief in about 24 hours in the way of
warmer weather replacing bitter cold and snow, said Herbert Puempel of
the U.N.'s World Meteorological Organization in Geneva. He said
temperatures should climb enough to "take a little pressure off the
people who are not housed."
"It's frustrating," said U.S. Navy rescue swimmer Jeff Pearson, 25, of
Amarillo, Texas. "But we're doing all we can do. I think we are going
to be able to get much more involved very soon."
His helicopter crew, based on the southern island of Okinawa, was
heading farther north from Japan's Jinmachi Air Base in Yamagata
city.
A 24-vehicle U.S. Marines convoy reached the base Friday, where the
Marines will run a refueling hub, move supplies by road and provide
communications support.
Also Friday, the airport in Sendai, the city closest to the epicenter,
was declared ready to receive aid deliveries on jumbo C-130 and C-17
military transport planes. The tsunami had flooded the tarmac, piling
up small planes and cars and leaving behind a layer of muck and
debris.
At the school in Karakuwa, 43-year-old Emi Yoshida reads a book, still
wearing the same clothes she had on the day the tsunami roared into
town. She has not showered in a week and longs for a bed. Still, she
is grateful for the comfort the community has provided her and her two
sons.
Nearby, 62-year-old Yoko Komatsu and her 88-year-old father-in-law
Tetsuo Komatsu sit in a patch of sunlight streaming in through the
giant classroom windows, warming themselves next to an oil-powered
heater.
Yoko feels trapped by the one thing the volunteers cannot give her: a
way to communicate with the outside world. She has no idea if her
relatives, who live in other hard-hit coastal towns, are alive.
"I want to go there to check on them," she said. "Even if I go, I
can't come back, so I can't move. What I want most is gas."
In the kitchen, teachers, mothers of students and the newly homeless
whip up three meals and two snacks a day.
The women mix together squid, shrimp and stir-fried vegetables in
large pots, turning it into a nourishing stew that they ladle onto
bowls of rice. They're delivered with slices of apples throughout the
building.
In the middle of one classroom, a group of boys plunk themselves in
seats around a table, the bowls of stew sending plumes of steam into
the air. In unison, they bow their heads.
"Thank you," they say. "For everything."
Then, their chilled hands armed with chopsticks, they gobble their
dinner down.
___
Klug reported from Hirota. Associated Press writers Eric Talmadge in
Yamagata and Todd Pitman in Shizugawa and AP photographer David
Guttenfelder in Shizugawa contributed to this story.
Boris Kapusta
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>My friends
Another lie.
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL...I see that you are projecting your pitiful existence once again.
TMT
.
> On Mar 17, 11:11 pm, Too_Many_Tools<too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
>> earthquake.
snip
>
> My friends tell me that they have seen no looting.
>
> And in a country where guns are rare, there seems to be no need for
> them in this disaster.
>
> We'll see what the next days and weeks bring.
>
> TMT
>
it is only in a country filled with guns that anyone would need one.
The Japanese help each other, in the USA, the NRA sponsored gun freedom
would ensure that we could just shoot each other to steal what we need.
It's a very comforting thought to some, I am sure.
Tom Gardner
"." <zo...@sarag89.org> wrote in message
news:im1dn0$pnj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
the reason we need to be able to defend ourselves.
John R. Carroll
> On Mar 17, 11:11 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
>> earthquake.
>>
>> Having friends there in the affected areas, they have noted that
>> landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
>>
>> Cell phone and cable/fiber service is almost nonexistent.
>>
>> Water and power is sporadic at best.
>>
>> Many people have only what they could grab and run with...so Bug Out
>> Bags do matter.
>>
>> Many of those I know have yet to see anyone from the Government...so
>> they are on their own.
>>
>> The weather is turning colder/snow so keeping warm without heat is
>> the theme of the day.
>>
>> FWIW...I just returned from Maui and was there when the tsuami
>> warning was in effect...very interesting. Hawaii has gotten serious
>> about tsuami warnings since the Indian Ocean tsunami of
>> 2004...California has much to learn yet.
>>
>> TMT
>
> FYI..
>
> My friends tell me that they have seen no looting.
You need to expand your circle friends then.
As of Thursday evening there had been 134 arrests reported by one prefecture
for the looting of various wharehouses along the near waterfronts.
--
John R. Carroll
Rich Grise
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:43:56 -0700 (PDT), Shall not be infringed
>>> --Yah I wondered about that; how prevalent is ham radio in Japan?
>>> That might be saving their bacon..
>>
>>Extremely prevalent. I made the mistake of operating in a JA
>>contest. Every last one of them QSLd me.
>
> The Japan ARL has requested that the following frequencies be kept
> clear for emergency use: 3.525, 7.030, 14.100, 21.200 and 28.200MHz.
> Please avoid those frequencies for the duration of the current
> exercise.
"Exercise?" ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Strabo
Most likely Yakuzi. The locals in the devastated areas have no place to
keep loot and travel is difficult.
Strabo
How about a country filled with very lethal swords?
The Japanese have a very violent history. Much more so than
in Europe or the US. For centuries the country was divided into
fiefdoms controlled by all-powerful warlords and the Samurai
class who maintained a constant state of terror.
Firearms were first introduced in Japan in the 1700s but were unpopular
since their use threatened the Samurai/Bushido traditions. In the
highly stratified Japanese culture, the ruling classes had no intention
of allowing the peons an equalizer. After the Shogun consolidation
national policy prohibited guns except for the military and a few
police.
While firearms are outlawed in Japan, the criminal class, the
Yakuzi, have them but they mostly prey on each other. The average
Japanese is in little danger. A strong moral code and an oppressive
criminal justice system keeps crime at a minimum.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"." <zo...@sarag89.org>
wrote in message
news:im1dn0$pnj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
it is only in a country filled with guns that anyone
Boris Kapusta
wrote:
TMT would do very well living in Japan, a land with no guns. Do they
have basements in Japan?
Boris Kapusta
If TMT moved to Japan, his mommies would be selling their whares at
those wharehouses.
Boris Kapusta
That's a technical term. :)
Boris Kapusta
How many mommies are too many, Too_Many_Mommies?
wsne...@hotmail.com
Re: Lessons Learned:
1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
2) Do not build nukes is seismically active areas.
3) Failing #1, keep the nukes' backup generators out of the reach of
tsunamis.
pyotr filipivich
wsne...@hotmail.com reported Elvis on Sat, 19 Mar 2011 08:55:16
-0700 (PDT) in misc.survivalism:
above all, Do not live anywhere near the ocean. Otherwise,
you're at risk of being killed by Tsunamis. Or Hurricanes. Or sea
monsters, and sea raiders.
Oh, and don't live near the mountains, they can cause landslides,
snow slides, or pyroclastic flows. And stay away from the forested
areas, they catch fire and will increase Global Warming, too.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Just when you think you see the light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a 900lb gorilla with a flashlight!!
Cydrome Leader
It seems more like #1 should be don't make nuclear reactors that self
destruct if the power is cut.
This is simple stuff here.
Imagine your oven at home exploding, or elevators falling to the bottom of
their shafts when the power goes out.
I do work in datacenters where nonstop power is a big deal, and even in
those places, eventually soembody is going to drop a wrench into some
switchgear and the power will go out.
The big difference is you get some pissed off traders and some websites go
down, the building doesn't start to self destruct.
robert bowman
> 1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
You mean like the Seabrook nuke?
Shall not be infringed
"This is not a drill!"
I actually had an officer tell me that a deployment to op restore hope
would be good training for an upcoming ORI.
Boris Kapusta
Stay away from libtards, they have a mental disorder.
Chris.B
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that
Just living near fields is bad enough. Horses: horseshit. Bulls:
bullshit. Pigs: pigshit. Sheep: sheepshit. Bison...? 8-|
I'm sure you're getting my spray drift by now.
wsne...@hotmail.com
- Hide quoted text -
> wsnel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >Re: Lessons Learned:
> >1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
> >2) Do not build nukes is seismically active areas.
> >3) Failing #1, keep the nukes' backup generators out of the reach of
> >tsunamis.
> Corollary:
> No matter what level of disaster you plan for - sooner or later one
> will come along that is bigger than your plans allowed for.
> These plants were built to withstand an 8.2 quake. This one was 9.0.
The actual damage caused as a direct result of the quake seems
limited.
> They were protected by a seawall designed to stop a 20 foot tsunami.
> They were hit by one that was 23 feet.
The plant's buildings were still more or less intact after the
tsunami.
However, it appears that the generators were located below ground
with
the fuel tanks at ground level. A generator or two located at a
higher elevation might have bought some time.
> Prediction:
> There will be sigificant damage & loss of life attributable to the
> lack of power provided by the reactor,
Japan will be lacking roughly 3 or 4 % of its usual electricity
supply, long term. That could be significant.
> yet there will not be a single
> fatality directly attributable to the rector incident itself - but
> somehow nuclear power will still end up being the boogieman in all of
> this.
The Libs will probably blame Bush, as usual.
Tom Del Rosso
Boris Kapusta wrote:
>
> Do they have basements in Japan?
Not any more.
--
Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.
Shall not be infringed
Actually, he would do terribly. He has no honor. He would be handed
a knife.
Rich Grise
>>Yakuzi, have them but they mostly prey on each other. The average
>>Japanese is in little danger. A strong moral code and an oppressive
>>criminal justice system keeps crime at a minimum.
>
> TMT would do very well living in Japan, a land with no guns. Do they
> have basements in Japan?
Well, I only saw a little bit of it when I was living there ca. 1971;
the closest thing I saw to a basement is the lower levels (several
lower levels, in fact) in the Ginza and at the train/subway stations.
The few private houses, bars, and snack shops seemed to either not
have them, or they didn't talk about them, because they'd be like
a basement of an outhouse.
Cheers!
Rich
pyotr filipivich
<chr...@nypost.dk> reported Elvis on Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:27:38 -0700
>bullshit. Pigs: pigshit. Sheep: sheepshit. Bison...? 8-|
>
>I'm sure you're getting my spray drift by now.
And stay clear of the capital, and the local University. Or at
least up wind. A nuclear plant melt down will just kill you - what
ever is contaminating those places seems to makes you stupid.
--
pyotr filipivich
If you get hit by a train, it isn't the caboose what kills you.
Strabo
> On Mar 19, 11:21 am, Boris Kapusta<tha...@nothanks.notreal> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:41:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>
>> How many mommies are too many, Too_Many_Mommies?
>
> Re: Lessons Learned:
>
> 1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
>
> 2) Do not build nukes is seismically active areas.
>
> 3) Failing #1, keep the nukes' backup generators out of the reach of
> tsunamis.
>
Unscheduled shutdown of a nuclear reactor can occur for other reasons.
Among these, the cascading failure of the electrical grid or a hit
from a meteorite or plane, equipment breakdown, human error, sabotage,
etc.
Strabo
> On Mar 19, 1:19 pm, vonKevin<vonke...@comNOSPAMcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
>> wsnel...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Re: Lessons Learned:
>
>>> 1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
>
>>> 2) Do not build nukes is seismically active areas.
>
>>> 3) Failing #1, keep the nukes' backup generators out of the reach of
>>> tsunamis.
>
>> Corollary:
>
>> No matter what level of disaster you plan for - sooner or later one
>> will come along that is bigger than your plans allowed for.
>
>> These plants were built to withstand an 8.2 quake. This one was 9.0.
>
> The actual damage caused as a direct result of the quake seems
> limited.
>
>> They were protected by a seawall designed to stop a 20 foot tsunami.
>> They were hit by one that was 23 feet.
>
> The plant's buildings were still more or less intact after the
> tsunami.
>
> However, it appears that the generators were located below ground
> with
> the fuel tanks at ground level. A generator or two located at a
> higher elevation might have bought some time.
>
There was a redundant backup generator. Both failed.
<snipped>
Shall not be infringed
Probably the Americans over there to teach english.
CaveLamb
AND!
Stupid experiments by the operators!
DogDiesel
"Boris Kapusta" <tha...@nothanks.notreal> wrote in message
news:vtg9o65m3a9t7gnp2...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 06:14:49 -0500, Strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On 3/19/2011 12:07 AM, . wrote:
>>> On 3/18/2011 8:19 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>>>> On Mar 17, 11:11 pm, Too_Many_Tools<too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
>>>>> earthquake.
>>>
>>> snip
>>>>
>>>> My friends tell me that they have seen no looting.
Exactly, , there are no minorities to loot in Japan.
Generally , No their homes do not have basements .
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
> It seems more like #1 should be don't make nuclear reactors that self
> destruct if the power is cut.
>
That was my thought also.
I bet they can't.
And storage pools that don't melt when the shielding water is drained.
In my opinion, we are seeing the result of a number of very poor
engineering decisions...likely forced to occur because of management.
This reminds me of the BP f*ckup we witnessed last year..
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can you imagine what it would be like downwind of the National
Republican Party headquarters? ;<)
TMT
Michael A. Terrell
wsne...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> The plant's buildings were still more or less intact after the
> tsunami.
>
> However, it appears that the generators were located below ground
> with the fuel tanks at ground level. A generator or two located
> at a higher elevation might have bought some time.
More likely, the quake or the tsunami would have ripped the wiring
loose, so they would still have failed.
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid� on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
DogDiesel
<wsne...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61600095-4009-4714...@w6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
Thats because the governments have a vested interest to lie. In fact
using the Nuclear regulatory commissions own data on allowable radiation
levels. Which are much less then the approved ones the general population is
told about. Its known that over 6 million deaths have been attributed to
nuclear plants. Another 300 million are attributed to military use. Because
the smallest like 1 rem, exposure is just as bad as 40 rem. But you
certainly don't want to hear that.
Most of the cancer and genetic defects in the US population are caused by
radiation. Like arthritis. MS , retardation, and a host of other diseases
that are rising proportional to population increases . Are and have been
attributed to low radiation levels given to us citizens . Primarily in the
50s and 60s. The defects are passed to generation to generation on an ever
expanding rate. The US has in fact, due to radiation. created a citizenry,
incapable of surviving. From generation to generation. The government run
nuclear program has in fact committed genocide against the human race.
Because nuclear plants cant be run without killing people.
DogDiesel
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:zpmdneWEs-sjERjQ...@earthlink.com...
>
> wsne...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> The plant's buildings were still more or less intact after the
>> tsunami.
>>
>> However, it appears that the generators were located below ground
>> with the fuel tanks at ground level. A generator or two located
>> at a higher elevation might have bought some time.
>
>
> More likely, the quake or the tsunami would have ripped the wiring
> loose, so they would still have failed.
>
>
> --
made inoperable. The plant and backup. was designed to handle the
earthquake, But the stupid idiots never even attempted to make the backup
systems flood resistant.
Furthermore the plant was going to be closed at the end of this month.
Cydrome Leader
Forgot about that one. How about a pipe running to ground level that fills
the tank from above, if all things goto hell?
> In my opinion, we are seeing the result of a number of very poor
> engineering decisions...likely forced to occur because of management.
Back to the datacenter side of stuff, there's some impressive measures
taken to make sure those buildings can run nonstop. One place basically
has a swimming pool in the basement to insure a supply of cooling water
for the mainframes, and another building in the middle of Chicago has it's
own well, in case city water pressure is lost. They can fire up the well
to keep the sprinkler systems ready and the building can remain occupied.
And is typical at those places, if the on site generators fail (and this
happens more than anybody at those places will admit), there are generator
taps to the building so they an just park mobile generator trucks outside
and not have spice up new panels and connections. All these steps came up
through trial and error and bad experiences.
I'm not claiming what's going on in japan is a good thing, but I suspect
lots of other sites will be making changes to how they do things so
they're not next.
> This reminds me of the BP f*ckup we witnessed last year..
The BP thing sounded like a great combination of people doing stupid
things and everything failing that could fail all at the same time, which
seems typical for disasters of that sort.
Michael A. Terrell
DogDiesel wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:zpmdneWEs-sjERjQ...@earthlink.com...
> >
> > wsne...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> The plant's buildings were still more or less intact after the
> >> tsunami.
> >>
> >> However, it appears that the generators were located below ground
> >> with the fuel tanks at ground level. A generator or two located
> >> at a higher elevation might have bought some time.
> >
> >
> > More likely, the quake or the tsunami would have ripped the wiring
> > loose, so they would still have failed.
> >
> >
> > --
> No they wouldn't.
So, you're a structural engineer, as well as owning a crystal ball?
A hell of a lot of wire goes down in hurricanes and tornados, none of
which approach the raw energy of an earthquake or a tsunami
> They already know the backup systems were flooded and
> made inoperable. The plant and backup. was designed to handle the
> earthquake, But the stupid idiots never even attempted to make the backup
> systems flood resistant.
>
> Furthermore the plant was going to be closed at the end of this month.
Irrelevant. The generators weren't installed this month.
Boris Kapusta
wrote:
>
>"Boris Kapusta" <tha...@nothanks.notreal> wrote in message
>news:vtg9o65m3a9t7gnp2...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 06:14:49 -0500, Strabo <str...@flashlight.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/19/2011 12:07 AM, . wrote:
>>>> On 3/18/2011 8:19 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 17, 11:11 pm, Too_Many_Tools<too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
>>>>>> earthquake.
>>>>
>>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>> My friends tell me that they have seen no looting.
>
> Exactly, , there are no minorities to loot in Japan.
It's not well publicized.
http://shavedlongcock.blogspot.com/2011/03/chicago-womans-son-missing-in-japan.html
Too_Many_Tools
> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
> earthquake.
>
> landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
>
> Cell phone and cable/fiber service is almost nonexistent.
>
> Water and power is sporadic at best.
>
> Many people have only what they could grab and run with...so Bug Out
> Bags do matter.
>
> Many of those I know have yet to see anyone from the Government...so
> they are on their own.
>
> The weather is turning colder/snow so keeping warm without heat is the
> theme of the day.
>
> FWIW...I just returned from Maui and was there when the tsuami warning
> was in effect...very interesting. Hawaii has gotten serious about
> tsuami warnings since the Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004...California
> has much to learn yet.
>
> TMT
More insight into the situation...
TMT
1st Person: Rich Japan's descent into misery stuns
By TODD PITMAN, Associated Press Todd Pitman, Associated Press
Sun Mar 20, 10:08 am ET
SHIZUGAWA, Japan – Bodies are strewn among the knotted skeletons of
entire towns. Military helicopters clatter overhead. Survivors who
lost everything huddle under blankets in schools-turned-shelters as
foreign governments dispatch aid and urge their citizens to flee.
After years spent reporting from desperate and war-torn corners of the
world, the scenes I've witnessed here are unsettlingly familiar.
It's the setting that's not.
Here, in one of the richest and most advanced nations on earth, I've
found one of most challenging assignments of my career.
Japan's cascading disasters were spawned by one of the planet's
strongest quakes in a century. Next came a tsunami that killed more
than 10,000 people and demolished vast swaths the northeastern coast
in minutes. That triggered a nuclear emergency that has amplified a
deepening sense of apocalyptic doom.
The grim sights have been widely compared to the astonishing
destruction wrought here during World War II. But it also reminds me
of Lebanon in 2006 — when Israel's Hezbollah-seeking rockets leveled
whole villages — or any other conflict zone filled with refugees and
military convoys.
When I stepped off the plane in Tokyo the morning after the quake,
Narita International Airport was quiet. The escalators had been shut
off. Stranded passengers lay on sleeping bags throughout the terminal.
Outside, not a single taxi stood waiting. We finally found one willing
to take us downtown, but only at the departure hall where a dozen
others dropping off fleeing travelers had already refused to give us a
ride.
Later, I headed north toward the tsunami zone with a team of three
other Associated Press journalists. There were obstacles at every
turn. The GPS system could not know that some roads no longer existed
or that others had been blocked by mudslides or ripped apart during
the mighty tremor.
That first night, it took 14 hours on backroads to cover 180 miles
(300 kilometers). When we finally reached the ruined port of Sendai
the next morning, we found survivors wearing surgical masks picking
through the wrecked junkyard of their annihilated city.
In a tech-savvy society better known for hosting robot marathons, the
crisis has produced surreal images, some more apt to appear in a novel
about life after a nuclear holocaust: Cut off with no electricity and
no phone reception, the hungry and isolated braving long lines outside
near-empty grocery stores just to get food; the desperate homeless
warming frigid hands in heavy snow above fires fueled by the wooden
planks of their own pulverized homes.
In Kesennuma, I saw the hull of a behemoth ship parked inland on a sea
of burnt debris beside a wrecked 7-Eleven.
In Shizugawa, a lone Japanese soldier relentlessly swept a small strip
of pavement that somehow survived, a futile and slightly bizarre
effort considering the entire city surrounding it was reduced to a
mashed heap of garbage.
Most of these towns have simply ceased to exist. In some, far from the
ravaged coast, everything is still closed: restaurants, malls, pinball
arcades, drugstores — even ATM machines because they cannot function
without power.
We have survived mostly on snack food — peanuts and potato chips and
canned coffee scavenged from mostly empty street-side vending
machines. When we found one small food store open, it's dwindling
stocks already plundered, we bought everything left that we could fit
in our car — raw sausages, dried squid, bread.
Finding fuel is a constant concern. Vast lines of cars queue ominously
at every gas station — even those that are closed — waiting up to 36
hours to buy limited rations.
We need gas not only to move, but to charge our laptops and satellite
transmitting equipment through an inverter that connects to our car's
cigarette lighter — which at one overloaded point blew a fuse,
threatening to bring our mission to a halt.
One big problem with Japan's crisis: It doesn't feel like it's over.
Every night, we are woken by aftershocks. These come during the day,
too — during interviews, while parked in our car — grim reminders that
what started it all can be unleashed again, anytime.
Every day, we hear snippets of news about the possibility of total
nuclear meltdown at the Fukishima Dai-ichi plant, more than 150 miles
(240 kilometers) from where we have been working. There is talk of
helicopter crews testing positive for radiation exposure, of foreign
governments urging their nationals to leave.
The experience got even more surreal when AP issued me a pocket-sized
"dosimeter" — a device that looks like a Maglite flashlight and
monitors surrounding radiation levels from the safety of one's pocket
— and a ration of potassium iodide to protect my thyroid from cancer
in the event of a serious nuclear event.
With heavy snow now adding another level of desolation, I sometimes
wonder: If it gets any worse, can we get off this island?
With nowhere else to stay, we spent many nights in makeshift shelters,
sleeping alongside displaced families wrapped in blankets on the
crowded wooden floors of school basketball courts.
At all of them, large wall-mounted clocks are still frozen at 2:46
p.m. — give or take a few minutes — the moment when the earthquake
changed everything.
It's hard not to be impressed with the immense grace of the people
we've encountered along the way. I've seen no fighting, no shouting,
only patience.
We've been offered miso soup and rice balls — by people who have lost
everything and have no idea when or how they'll ever go home. The
shelters we've stayed at are so well-organized that one even offered
different trash bags for recycling, and there were group calisthenics
at dawn.
On the surface, there seems too little emotion, too much stoicism. But
loss is everywhere.
At Ishinoseke, a man who has not seen his wife since he spoke to her
minutes before the tsunami told me with the utmost certainty that she
MUST be alive. After failing to find her at seven different shelters,
he began searching for her inside a city gym-turned-morgue where the
bodies of 300 tsunami victims lay under blue tarps, waiting to be
identified.
At a shelter in Shizugawa, I watched an elderly man tell a group of
survivors that those who'd gone missing had not yet been confirmed
dead.
Was it denial or real hope? I couldn't tell.
As he read out the names of dozens who have not been seen since March
11, women listening intently on their knees began weeping in silence.
___
AP Bangkok Bureau Chief Todd Pitman, who has spent much of his career
reporting from war zones in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Middle East, as
well as some of the most troubled nations in Africa, has found one of
his most challenging assignments in Asia's richest and most
technologically advanced country.
robert bowman
> The BP thing sounded like a great combination of people doing stupid
> things and everything failing that could fail all at the same time, which
> seems typical for disasters of that sort.
iirc, there were some question about the various contractors like
Halliburton not following established procedures or overlooking red flags.
Despite the Monday morning quarterbacking, the situation in Japan is about
as close to 'shit happens' as it gets. Unlike some elements of the NOLA PD,
there are people working to make it right knowing full well they're
probably going to die. That takes stones.
Strabo
> On Mar 17, 11:11 pm, Too_Many_Tools<too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
>> earthquake.
>>
>
> Finding fuel is a constant concern. Vast lines of cars queue ominously
> at every gas station � even those that are closed � waiting up to 36
> hours to buy limited rations.
>
> We need gas not only to move, but to charge our laptops and satellite
> transmitting equipment through an inverter that connects to our car's
> cigarette lighter � which at one overloaded point blew a fuse,
> threatening to bring our mission to a halt.
>
No MREs or solar cell panels?
The reporters are as unprepared as the victims.
Japan - an example of reliance on technology.
Too_Many_Tools
Expecting a tsuami after an earthquake is common knowledge.
The fact that the reactors were not tsuami hardened is
surprising...very surprising.
I think people will be going to jail.
And you are right in that some very brave people are trying to clean
up the mess.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
A sign that it is worse than initially reported...and getting worse
daily as what supplies that do exist are depleted.
One of the reasons why I started the discussion...and why one needs to
learn from what happens.
TMT
TMT
Jon Elson
>
> Expecting a tsuami after an earthquake is common knowledge.
>
> The fact that the reactors were not tsuami hardened is
> surprising...very surprising.
>
> I think people will be going to jail.
>
> And you are right in that some very brave people are trying to clean
> up the mess.
I got a tour of the nuclear plant in our state (MO) way back around 1980
while it was under construction. I forget the affiliation, I think it was
Society of Mechanical Engineers, or possible Institute of Electrical and
Electronic Engineers. So, we got a MUCH more detailed tour than most
people. They had six HUGE Diesel generators for backup power, plus some
battery backup to allow time for the generators to start, and support the
control and monitoring gear.
The entire plant is on a hill well above the Missouri river where it gets
its water supply. That protects it from floods. They have an elevated
tank on site to provide borated water in a major emergency, although they'd
need pumps to force it in against the reactor's normal pressure. If there
was a major leak, however, they could let the water flow in by gravity,
although that would be a real mess.
It is a pressurized water reactor.
They really should have had the Dai-ichi reactors up on a hill also,
artificially constructed, if necessary. A big hill is way better than any
kind of flood walls.
Jon
Jon Elson
Its known that over 6 million deaths have been attributed to
> nuclear plants. Another 300 million are attributed to military use.
> Because
> the smallest like 1 rem, exposure is just as bad as 40 rem. But you
> certainly don't want to hear that.
>
> Most of the cancer and genetic defects in the US population are caused by
> radiation. Like arthritis. MS , retardation, and a host of other diseases
> that are rising proportional to population increases . Are and have been
> attributed to low radiation levels given to us citizens . Primarily in the
> 50s and 60s. The defects are passed to generation to generation on an
> ever
> expanding rate. The US has in fact, due to radiation. created a
> citizenry, incapable of surviving. From generation to generation. The
> government run nuclear program has in fact committed genocide against the
> human race. Because nuclear plants cant be run without killing people.
I was going to answer this, but after reading it, I gather that I must be
already dead, as with 306 million dead, there can't be but a handful left.
Jon
Too_Many_Tools
I noticed the absence of any elevation with the Japanese reactors too.
They are esentially at sea level.
To this observer, it seems to be a very serious mistake.
TMT
Offbreed
> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
> earthquake.
Thank you.
> Having friends there in the affected areas, they have noted that
> landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
Interesting that the land lines work, considering how the photos I've
seen are of level rubble.
>
> Cell phone and cable/fiber service is almost nonexistent.
Land lines but not cable? Odd. Probably something specific to that
area.
> Many of those I know have yet to see anyone from the Government...so
> they are on their own.
That sounds normal enough. FEMA, bad jokes about Brownie aside, is
right up front: "Don't plan to see us /start/ helping for 72 hours."
And that assumes that most of the country is still in good shape. That
high a percentage of the country reduced to rubble? Bottom line,
always, expect to be on your own for the first week. Smart to expect
to be on your own for a month. I have no idea how to plan ahead for
that big a problem, though.
Offbreed
> This reminds me of the BP f*ckup we witnessed last year..
Turns out that the method BP used to cap the well was the method the
feds at first told them not to use.
The F'd up management, was the feds.
Offbreed
wrote:
> More likely, the quake or the tsunami would have ripped the wiring
> loose, so they would still have failed.
Yabbut, it might not have, either. Also, easier to fix the wiring than
to dry out a generator that's been under salt water.
Stormin Mormon
You don't have to take care of the entire country.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Offbreed" <Offbre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f89681b-0fe2-4313...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
permission. so, yes, I'd think that "You're doing a heck of
a job, Obammy, I mean Brownie" was the screw up.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Offbreed" <Offbre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7032ab0c-4f4d-43c2...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
> On Mar 17, 8:11 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
>> earthquake.
>
> Thank you.
>
>> Having friends there in the affected areas, they have noted that
>> landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
>
> Interesting that the land lines work, considering how the photos I've
> seen are of level rubble.
Optical fiber is pretty much waterproof.
>> Cell phone and cable/fiber service is almost nonexistent.
>
> Land lines but not cable? Odd. Probably something specific to that area.
Actually Japan is way ahead of the world in cable/fiber. If there is a
problem with cable TV then I'd suspect relay stations, not the media.
>> Many of those I know have yet to see anyone from the Government...so
>> they are on their own.
>
> That sounds normal enough. FEMA, bad jokes about Brownie aside, is right
> up front: "Don't plan to see us /start/ helping for 72 hours." And that
> assumes that most of the country is still in good shape. That high a
> percentage of the country reduced to rubble? Bottom line, always, expect
> to be on your own for the first week. Smart to expect to be on your own
> for a month. I have no idea how to plan ahead for that big a problem,
> though.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Irony defined: http://www.fox.com/lietome/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Too_Many_Tools
I do know that landlines are powered by batteries that last a
considerable amount of time.
Cell towers are usually backed by generators...about 30 minutes of
backup.
Cable was likely above ground on poles...which were wiped out by the
tsuami.
Landlines were likely underground..where most survived.
I have received emails from a number of friends posting on laptops on
dialup..while those on broadband had no access.
Some that had satellite Internet still are on line...but battery
powered only...and with limited fuel they are using solar/wind
chargers.
A big problem is limited fuel...heating and generator power is being
rationed because of limited fuel availability.
Many people are living in cars and vans...and using body heat to stay
warm.
Burning scrap wood in outside fires for warmth during the day.
Two friends who were actually prepared with stores were able to get
out just ahead of the wave...their stores were lost and what they have
is what was in their BOBs...most of the neighbors are still missing
and presumed dead.
Watching this unfold reminds me of how fragile technology is.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
When FEMA says 72 hours...they mean 72 hours MINIMUM...it is likely to
be longer in a big disaster.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
You need to get your info from somewhere else than Faux News.
BP was cutting corners all around.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Just plan for yourself, and enough ammo to shoot looters.
> You don't have to take care of the entire country.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> news:4f89681b-0fe2-4313...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
> That sounds normal enough. FEMA, bad jokes about Brownie
> aside, is
> right up front: "Don't plan to see us /start/ helping for 72
> hours."
> And that assumes that most of the country is still in good
> shape. That
> high a percentage of the country reduced to rubble? Bottom
> line,
> always, expect to be on your own for the first week. Smart
> to expect
> to be on your own for a month. I have no idea how to plan
> ahead for
> that big a problem, though.
Guns are not the answer as the Japan disaster is showing us.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The skimmer ships other countries sent, were refused
> permission. so, yes, I'd think that "You're doing a heck of
> a job, Obammy, I mean Brownie" was the screw up.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> news:7032ab0c-4f4d-43c2...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 19, 8:32 pm, Too_Many_Tools
>
> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > This reminds me of the BP f*ckup we witnessed last year..
>
> Turns out that the method BP used to cap the well was the
> method the
> feds at first told them not to use.
>
> The F'd up management, was the feds.
Again...get your news from real sources...not Faux News.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:39:14 -0700, Offbreed <Offbreed_...@hotmail.com>
While I have no proof, it seems that anything underground fared better
than what was above ground.
Hardline phone was buried decades ago while newer tech (cable/fiber)
were suspended above ground..where the tsuami could reach it.
TMT
Thomas
>
> TMT
But the US is not Japan. Our gangbangers would kick Japans gangbangers
ass.
Stormin Mormon
nine, but my guess is those guys know Karate.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Thomas" <cano...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6c1daf74-859f-4ed7...@z27g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
Strabo
> Our guys might gangsta cock and fire off a few rounds of
> nine, but my guess is those guys know Karate.
>
I'm sure the Japanese enjoy that stereotype.
In the old days, only royalty and the Samurai class was expected to
know martial arts. Other classes were forbidden such knowledge and
weapons.
This cultural expectation is absent today. The Samurai class was
outlawed many years ago and full contact combat and weaponry is
forbidden. Today it's all about tradition.
They do have the history and martial arts sporting groups but
there's less opportunity to practice the arts. Experience is lacking.
Street crime rates are low and roughhousing and schoolyard fights are
practically non-existent.
Having lost much from aggressive militarism this past century, the
Japanese today are a refined and polite people who actively avoid
physical conflict.
China, Thailand and Korea are different stories.
Rich Grise
>
> China, Thailand and Korea are different stories.
FWIW, Thailand is a pussycat compared to the Chinese and Korean
lunatics, until push comes to shove. When we lost the "war" in
Vietnam and got ejected inabject humiliation, I was in Thailand
doing air support; when Vietnam won the decisive victory, Thailand
essentially said, "Well, it looks like it's time to put the kids
to bed, thanks so much for your visit, but it's time to go home"
and they declared themselves allies of whoever was the most
powerful neighbor.
They also grow the mother of all ganja, which can tend to make
people peaceful, and their neighbors probably remember Lady Mo.
Lady Mo is a historical figure, almost legendary, who once many
many years ago, when there were occupation forces in Thailand,
organized all the women in the country. She said, "Ladies, welcome
the soldiers into your homes, give them a lay, and cut their
throats in their sleep." They wiped out the conquering forces
overnight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakhon_Ratchasima
Kind of makes me homesick. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Strabo" <str...@flashlight.net> wrote in message
news:yr6ip.13404$782...@newsfe17.iad...
Too_Many_Tools
Actually the US is much like Japan.
Those who obsess over having guns available during a disaster have not
been in a disaster.
One is much more focused on having water, food and shelter than
whether your toy gun is by your side.
TMT
Strabo
The women always determine the direction of their societies,
one way or another.
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Very true words.
Women hold and control the majority of assets in the world.
Women via birth control determine the fate of the human race.
Women by raising the children exert more control on the future of
societies than any world leader.
Us men are here only to take out the trash.
TMT
wsne...@hotmail.com
> wsnel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > 1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
>
> You mean like the Seabrook nuke?
Seabrook was built decades -before- the current accident. The title
of the thread was Lessons from Japan.
wsne...@hotmail.com
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that
> wsnel...@hotmail.com reported Elvis on Sat, 19 Mar 2011 08:55:16
> -0700 (PDT) in misc.survivalism:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mar 19, 11:21 am, Boris Kapusta <tha...@nothanks.notreal> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:41:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> >> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Mar 18, 10:10 pm, Boris Kapusta <tha...@nothanks.notreal> wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:11:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
> >> >> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
> >> >> >earthquake.
>
> >> >> >landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
>
>
>
> >> >> >Many people have only what they could grab and run with...so Bug Out
> >> >> >Bags do matter.
>
> >> >> >Many of those I know have yet to see anyone from the Government...so
> >> >> >they are on their own.
>
> >> >> >theme of the day.
>
> >> >> >FWIW...I just returned from Maui and was there when the tsuami warning
> >> >> >was in effect...very interesting. Hawaii has gotten serious about
> >> >> >tsuami warnings since the Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004...California
> >> >> >has much to learn yet.
>
> >> >> >TMT
>
> >> >> Nobody believes your bullshit. We know for a fact that you never leave
> >> >> your mommies' (both of them) basement.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> >> >TMT
>
> >> How many mommies are too many, Too_Many_Mommies?
>
> >Re: Lessons Learned:
>
> >1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
>
>
> >3) Failing #1, keep the nukes' backup generators out of the reach of
> >tsunamis.
>
> above all, Do not live anywhere near the ocean. Otherwise,
> you're at risk of being killed by Tsunamis. Or Hurricanes. Or sea
> monsters, and sea raiders.
>
> Oh, and don't live near the mountains, they can cause landslides,
> snow slides, or pyroclastic flows. And stay away from the forested
> areas, they catch fire and will increase Global Warming, too.
Obviously, there are potential dangers everywhere. Placing one's
backup generators underground in an area near a large body of water is
shortsighted, is it not?
wsne...@hotmail.com
> In rec.crafts.metalworking wsnel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> destruct if the power is cut.
>
> This is simple stuff here.
The reactors in Japan were 30+ years old.
> Imagine your oven at home exploding, or elevators falling to the bottom of
> their shafts when the power goes out.
Or airplanes making unscheduled landings when the engine(s) stop.
> I do work in datacenters where nonstop power is a big deal,
Often, some of the electricity that a datacenter uses comes from
nukes. Maybe they should use on-site solar panels or windmills
instead.
> and even in
> those places, eventually soembody is going to drop a wrench into some
> switchgear and the power will go out.
>
> The big difference is you get some pissed off traders and some websites go
> down,
We can't have that, can we?
> the building doesn't start to self destruct.
Michael A. Terrell
You think so? Would you like to be in a radiation suit while pulling
new wire and splicing it? We aren't talking about some wire here. Like
someone else pointed out, the cooling pumps at on plant were 1000 HP and
that plant had four.
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid� on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Michael A. Terrell
Offbreed wrote:
>
> On Mar 17, 8:11 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
> > earthquake.
>
> Thank you.
>
> > Having friends there in the affected areas, they have noted that
> > landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
>
> Interesting that the land lines work, considering how the photos I've
> seen are of level rubble.
> >
> > Cell phone and cable/fiber service is almost nonexistent.
>
> Land lines but not cable? Odd. Probably something specific to that
> area.
Cable TV requires local power throughout the system. If they have
UPS at each transformer location, it is usually good for no more than 12
hours. A failed UPS near the head end will kill the set of the system.
Telephone service is more centralized, and doesn't need so many power
sources. They run on batteries that are float charged, and they have a
generator large enough to power everything, and usually enough fuel to
last for several weeks.
Also: Telephone service is a regulated utility. CATV isn't.
> > Many of those I know have yet to see anyone from the Government...so
> > they are on their own.
>
> That sounds normal enough. FEMA, bad jokes about Brownie aside, is
> right up front: "Don't plan to see us /start/ helping for 72 hours."
> And that assumes that most of the country is still in good shape. That
> high a percentage of the country reduced to rubble? Bottom line,
> always, expect to be on your own for the first week. Smart to expect
> to be on your own for a month. I have no idea how to plan ahead for
> that big a problem, though.
My electric was out for over six weeks a few years ago, after a
hurricane passed through Central Florida.
Strabo
In terms of inherent talents and capacity, men have the power to
invent, build and destroy. Women do not. Men are obviously essential
to human survival.
>
> TMT
>
Too_Many_Tools
> On Mar 19, 1:40 pm, pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that
> > wsnel...@hotmail.com reported Elvis on Sat, 19 Mar 2011 08:55:16
> > -0700 (PDT) in misc.survivalism:
>
> > >> On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:41:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> > >> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> >On Mar 18, 10:10 pm, Boris Kapusta <tha...@nothanks.notreal> wrote:
>
> > >> >> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >Thought I would pass on a few bits of info concerning the Japan
> > >> >> >earthquake.
>
> > >> >> >landlines and satellite Internet still work for the most part.
>
>
>
> > >> >> >Many people have only what they could grab and run with...so Bug Out
> > >> >> >Bags do matter.
>
> > >> >> >they are on their own.
>
> > >> >> >theme of the day.
>
> > >> >> >FWIW...I just returned from Maui and was there when the tsuami warning
> > >> >> >was in effect...very interesting. Hawaii has gotten serious about
> > >> >> >tsuami warnings since the Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004...California
> > >> >> >has much to learn yet.
>
> > >> >> >TMT
>
> > >> >> Nobody believes your bullshit. We know for a fact that you never leave
>
> > >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > >> >TMT
>
> > >> How many mommies are too many, Too_Many_Mommies?
>
> > >Re: Lessons Learned:
>
> > >1) Do not build nukes on seashores in seismically active areas.
>
> > >2) Do not build nukes is seismically active areas.
>
> > >3) Failing #1, keep the nukes' backup generators out of the reach of
> > >tsunamis.
>
> > you're at risk of being killed by Tsunamis. Or Hurricanes. Or sea
> > monsters, and sea raiders.
>
> > Oh, and don't live near the mountains, they can cause landslides,
> > snow slides, or pyroclastic flows. And stay away from the forested
> > areas, they catch fire and will increase Global Warming, too.
>
> Obviously, there are potential dangers everywhere. Placing one's
> backup generators underground in an area near a large body of water is
>
> - Show quoted text -
With a known risk of a tsuami.
It would seem it was just one of many shortcuts made.
A very good case for more government regulation of nuclear energy
worldwide.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
And you don't dry out a generator soaked in salt water, mud and who
knows what else,
You have to tear the whole machine down and refubrish it.
My guess is that they will be redoing pumps also before they operate
properly.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Laugh..laugh..laugh..
Your wife obviously doesn't read your postings.
The women I know do have the power to invent, build and destroy.
Men are kept around to take the trash out and for comic relief.
And no...men are needed for procreation any more either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cloning
TMT
Curly Surmudgeon
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Offbreed wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 19, 9:12 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> > More likely, the quake or the tsunami would have ripped the
>> > wiring
>> > loose, so they would still have failed.
>>
>> Yabbut, it might not have, either. Also, easier to fix the wiring than
>> to dry out a generator that's been under salt water.
>
>
> You think so? Would you like to be in a radiation suit while pulling
> new wire and splicing it? We aren't talking about some wire here. Like
> someone else pointed out, the cooling pumps at on plant were 1000 HP and
> that plant had four.
Yow! That's three megawatts of power.
Letzee, at 380 VAC that's about 7890 amperes! Over three phases thats
2,600 amps per phase. Over four pumps thats 657 amps per phase per pump.
You're not going to use "wire" at that current. "Wire" only goes up to
'0000', or 4/0, gauge which is good to 260 amps if you permit a
temperature rise of 90 degrees centigrade. Let me assure you that a
power plant will not design near that limit.
You have to either raise the voltage significantly (most probable), use
"Power Cable", or buss bar.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to
unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not
involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." --Barack
Obama, 12/20/07
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curly Surmudgeon
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Offbreed wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 19, 9:12 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> > More likely, the quake or the tsunami would have ripped the
>> > wiring
>> > loose, so they would still have failed.
>>
>> Yabbut, it might not have, either. Also, easier to fix the wiring than
>> to dry out a generator that's been under salt water.
>
>
> You think so? Would you like to be in a radiation suit while pulling
> new wire and splicing it? We aren't talking about some wire here. Like
> someone else pointed out, the cooling pumps at on plant were 1000 HP and
> that plant had four.
Yow! That's three megawatts of power.
CaveLamb
>
> And you don't dry out a generator soaked in salt water, mud and who
> knows what else,
>
> You have to tear the whole machine down and refubrish it.
>
> My guess is that they will be redoing pumps also before they operate
> properly.
>
> TMT
Interesting point - those pumps are probably radioactive as hell itself.
Might pray they hold up for a LONG time without maintenance or repairs.
--
Richard Lamb
wsne...@hotmail.com
Not at all. It IS a good case for smarter designs and better
contingency plans, things which we certainly cannot count on
governments to provide.
Too_Many_Tools
Once they get the crisis under control, they will end up entombing the
plant.
The costs have only just begun.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
I disagree...what we are witnessing in Japan is the result of allowing
companies have their way.
If you consider that to be okay, then I recommend that you volunteer
to store spent fuel rods in yout backyard swimming pool...and
bathtub...and toilet.
As a conservative, you should be happy doing that without government
regulation.
TMT
T.T.
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:887fb349-1d3d-4d60...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
TMT
It's obvious, isn't it.
Reactor design should be entrusted to newsgroups.
wsne...@hotmail.com
Government ineptitude is the more likely cause. I think that TEPCO,
the builders of the plants, and the Japanese government should be
relentlessly ridiculed for letting all of the backup generators have a
single point of failure (flooding, due to whatever cause.)
> If you consider that to be okay, then I recommend that you volunteer
> to store spent fuel rods in yout backyard swimming pool...and
> bathtub...and toilet.
Why would I do that? The companies can store the fuel rods on their
own property. There should be plenty of room.
> As a conservative, you should be happy doing that without government
> regulation.
Conservatives aren't against regulations. In fact, we believe in a
nation of laws.
Most conservatives would also agree that you are an idiot. Maybe even
a few liberals would too.
wsne...@hotmail.com
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Well, there is the design of the reactor, the design of the plant, the
design of a contingency plan, among other considerations.
terryc
>> You think so? Would you like to be in a radiation suit while pulling
>> new wire and splicing it? We aren't talking about some wire here. Like
>> someone else pointed out, the cooling pumps at on plant were 1000 HP and
>> that plant had four.
>
> Yow! That's three megawatts of power.
>
> Letzee, at 380 VAC that's about 7890 amperes! Over three phases thats
> 2,600 amps per phase. Over four pumps thats 657 amps per phase per pump.
Umm, they generally use higher voltage machines at those powers.
terryc
> In terms of inherent talents and capacity, men have the power to
> invent, build and destroy. Women do not.
Bullshit, they just get channelled from birth into motherhood roles.
Josepi
Their hormonal makeup dictates their predisposition in 95% of the female
population in humans.
This doesn't make women stupid or less intelligent, only different from
males.
Competing on male dominated challenges makes them ignorant.
------------
"terryc" wrote in message news:imdrpk$ne5$1...@dont-email.me...
Bullshit, they just get channelled from birth into motherhood roles.
-----------
Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
I should hope! Western Australia and one other region (which I now
forget) uses 480VAC, the rest of the world uses 440 or 380. Given that
motors use a varnish or epoxy for insulation between windings it's hard
to imagine a motor much higher than 480vac.
Do they use physically separate windings in series?
Still, one would use "cables" rather than "wire" to deliver this kind of
power. Pendantic perhaps but slinging "cable" is quite different than
wire and mentally clarifies the problem.
terryc
>>> Letzee, at 380 VAC that's about 7890 amperes! Over three phases thats
>>> 2,600 amps per phase. Over four pumps thats 657 amps per phase per
>>> pump.
>> Umm, they generally use higher voltage machines at those powers.
>
> I should hope! Western Australia and one other region (which I now
> forget) uses 480VAC, the rest of the world uses 440 or 380. Given that
> motors use a varnish or epoxy for insulation between windings it's hard
> to imagine a motor much higher than 480vac.
All of australia is standardised on 240v/415V, 11KV, 33KV and higher.
Things like the above are customised installations and all they need is
a transformer from whatever supply they habve to the motor voltage.
>
> Do they use physically separate windings in series?
It depends on the task. I never worked in the heavy pumping field to
know what was common.I suspect, if the supplier is US, then they would
use what was provided.
hmm, will probably be starred as the supply willmost certainly be three
phase.
>
> Still, one would use "cables" rather than "wire" to deliver this kind of
> power. Pendantic perhaps but slinging "cable" is quite different than
> wire and mentally clarifies the problem.
Yes. Heavy industrial cabling is an entirely different ball game to
anything domestic.
>
terryc
> "Channeling" is not necessary for female gender.
> Their hormonal makeup dictates their predisposition in 95% of the female
> population in humans.
>
> This doesn't make women stupid or less intelligent, only different from
> males.
>
> Competing on male dominated challenges makes them ignorant.
Shrug, there are plenty of "male dominated" fields where on the aveage
they are better than the men and some are better than many men. Their
hormones have little to do with it.
>
CaveLamb
We still have a few 18th century types among us.
You guys should get out more.
When inventor and entrepreneur Dean Kamen launched his FIRST (For Inspiration
and Recognition of Science and Technology) robotics competition two decades ago,
he hoped to turn engineering into a contact sport and engineering students into
superstars. Judging by the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC) held recently in New
York City—which included waving mascots, bleachers filled with screaming fans,
and dozens of robots throwing down—he has succeeded.
In particular, the FIRST competitions (there are four in total open to ages six
through 18) have attracted a few all-girl teams, despite the fact that
adolescent and teenage girls can be a hard-to-reach demographic when it comes to
STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) education. Team members share
responsibility for designing and building their robots as well as writing the
necessary software.
The Fe Maidens (a clever play on the periodic table symbol for iron and the
heavy metal band Iron Maiden) from The Bronx High School of Science in New York
City have been competing at FRC for the past five years, and in 2010 earned a
trip to the finals in Atlanta. "Our real goal as a girls' team is to dispel all
those stereotypes that girls have about girls in engineering," says Leena Chan,
team captain and a senior at Bronx Science. Team co-captain and Bronx Science
junior Nicole Calace adds, "Girls should be interested in science and technology
because it's a really interesting field. It's important to learn how we can all
affect the world and make it a better place."
...
the rest of the story at...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/slideshow.cfm?id=first-frc-robotics-competition-2011
--
Richard Lamb
CanopyCo
> Josepi wrote:
> > "Channeling" is not necessary for female gender.
> > Their hormonal makeup dictates their predisposition in 95% of the female
> > population in humans.
>
> > This doesn't make women stupid or less intelligent, only different from
> > males.
>
> > Competing on male dominated challenges makes them ignorant.
>
> > ------------
>
>
> --
>
> Richard Lamb
>
>
First off, though I do not agree with the original statement that
women do not have the power to invent, build and destroy, trotting out
a obvious minority of oddball girls is not going to disprove that
statement.
Those girls were clearly not only a minority in that contest as they
were far below 50% of the contestants, but were also a minority of
their sex.
If 50% of the girls were capable of that activity or even interested
in it, then the contest would have had a higher percentage of girls
competing.
On the other hand, back to the original statement.
There are quite a few women in the military now days, and that area is
aimed directly at destruction.
It stands close to 1 in 4 of the existing military is now female, and
if you factor in the number of females that would have joined but were
now to old or were to devoted to their kids then you can easily get a
high enough percentage to be a consideration in this discussion.
Another form of destruction that women truly excel in is the
destruction of their own lives as well as the lives of others threw
the need for drama.
Most of the problems that I see with women is based totally on them
doing things to create drama in their lives, and this drama typically
destroys there life as well as the lives of others around them.
In order to have this drama, they invent (see another part of the cant
do list) a reason to do things that clearly are actually only aimed at
creating drama.
Thus, they have the imagination to invent and the power to destroy.
I don’t have a example of build right off the top of my head and am
also sure that there are better examples of both invent and destroy
then what I presented, but this is a start.
;-)