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Re: The Koch Brothers
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F. George McDuffee
Oct 26, 2013, 1:06:12 PM10/26/13
to
If you are following this thread, the following should be of
interest. It details a change in the structure/organization
of mega businesses. At this stage no one seems to know what
the outcomes will be, but a further
consolidation/concentration of economic wealth/power seems
likely, with additional reductions in governmental oversight
and citizen input.
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21588379-mutation-way-companies-are-financed-and-managed-will-change-distribution
interest. It details a change in the structure/organization
of mega businesses. At this stage no one seems to know what
the outcomes will be, but a further
consolidation/concentration of economic wealth/power seems
likely, with additional reductions in governmental oversight
and citizen input.
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21588379-mutation-way-companies-are-financed-and-managed-will-change-distribution
F. George McDuffee
Oct 29, 2013, 1:45:34 PM10/29/13
to
On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 06:17:09 -0400, "vinny" <vi...@rock.com>
wrote:
>
>"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
>news:p8vs69p3kqr9tr5i3...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 06:07:56 -0400, "vinny" <vi...@rock.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>People need protected from being used I agree, but the minimum wage doesnt
>>>do it. It causes as much harm or more than it cures.
>> <snip>
>>
>> While this seems plausible, I would like to see your data.
>>
>> I have never been able to locate any data shows a
>> statistically significant positive correlation between
>> either inflation adjusted or cy$ minimum wage rates and
>> unemployment. This does not mean there would not be a
>> relationship at some level, for 100$ per hour, but that
>> within the BLS minimum wage range and unemployment data
>> going back a number of years (my analysis is for 1950-2010)
>> there is no significant correlation. [FWIW -- the maximum
>> inflation adjusted minimum wage was in Feb 1968, and it has
>> been downhill from there.]
>> http://mcduffee-associates.us/PE/minwage-inf.xls
>>
>> It should be remembered that all of us other taxpayers are
>> subsidizing the low wages through social safety net payments
>> such as subsidized housing, SNAP/food stamps,
>> Medicare/emergency room, school lunch subsidies, etc.
>> http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/10/26/how-you-subsidize-the-minimum-wage.aspx
>> http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/sanders-slams-walmart-family-obscene-taxpa
>>
>> It is not at all clear to me how subsidizing cheap labor for
>> some of America's largest corporations makes any sense for
>> the huge majority of taxpayers.
>>
>>
>
>Its the dollar menu.
>We want more than we care.
===============
Indeed, but in the end we all pay. The choices are:
(1) Increase the minimum wage and let the people that eat
the burger pay the total price at the window; or
(2) The status quo, where the burgers remain cheap, and we
all (including the vegetarians) pay the wage subsidy on
April 15th, via the IRS. [FWIW -- the implicit corporate
wage subsidies through too low a minimum wage appear to be
just the tip of the corporate/0.1% welfare iceberg.]
N.B. When the majority can't tell what things actually
cost, the "free market" [in the usual inclusive sense] can't
operate.
wrote:
>
>"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
>news:p8vs69p3kqr9tr5i3...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 06:07:56 -0400, "vinny" <vi...@rock.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>People need protected from being used I agree, but the minimum wage doesnt
>>>do it. It causes as much harm or more than it cures.
>> <snip>
>>
>> While this seems plausible, I would like to see your data.
>>
>> I have never been able to locate any data shows a
>> statistically significant positive correlation between
>> either inflation adjusted or cy$ minimum wage rates and
>> unemployment. This does not mean there would not be a
>> relationship at some level, for 100$ per hour, but that
>> within the BLS minimum wage range and unemployment data
>> going back a number of years (my analysis is for 1950-2010)
>> there is no significant correlation. [FWIW -- the maximum
>> inflation adjusted minimum wage was in Feb 1968, and it has
>> been downhill from there.]
>> http://mcduffee-associates.us/PE/minwage-inf.xls
>>
>> It should be remembered that all of us other taxpayers are
>> subsidizing the low wages through social safety net payments
>> such as subsidized housing, SNAP/food stamps,
>> Medicare/emergency room, school lunch subsidies, etc.
>> http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/10/26/how-you-subsidize-the-minimum-wage.aspx
>> http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/sanders-slams-walmart-family-obscene-taxpa
>>
>> It is not at all clear to me how subsidizing cheap labor for
>> some of America's largest corporations makes any sense for
>> the huge majority of taxpayers.
>>
>>
>
>Its the dollar menu.
>We want more than we care.
===============
Indeed, but in the end we all pay. The choices are:
(1) Increase the minimum wage and let the people that eat
the burger pay the total price at the window; or
(2) The status quo, where the burgers remain cheap, and we
all (including the vegetarians) pay the wage subsidy on
April 15th, via the IRS. [FWIW -- the implicit corporate
wage subsidies through too low a minimum wage appear to be
just the tip of the corporate/0.1% welfare iceberg.]
N.B. When the majority can't tell what things actually
cost, the "free market" [in the usual inclusive sense] can't
operate.
Rudy Canoza
Oct 29, 2013, 2:01:16 PM10/29/13
to
someone if you get him sacked.
F. George McDuffee
Oct 29, 2013, 8:25:34 PM10/29/13
to
Is that you Art, trolling all the way from B.C.?
Like I said where's the beef (data)? All we get are the big
fluffy buns. [download the .xls file on my web site
referenced above]
Do your own analysis. Download the monthly CPI-U inflation
index, the unemployment rate, and the minimum wage.
Calculate the CPI-U adjusted minimum wage. Just for grins
"dummy code" the party in the White House. Run multiple
regression analysis with the unemployment rate as the
dependant variable, and CY$ minimum wage, CPI-U adjusted
minimum wage, and party in the White House as the
independent variables and see the result. Shift the
independent variables back by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 months and 1
year to detect any lagging effect.
The results are there is no statistically significant
correlation, and the party of the president, although not
significant, has a higher correlation with unemployment than
does either CY$ or CPI-U adjusted minimum wage rates.
*NO CORRELATION = NO EFFECT = NO VALID ARGUMENT*
Another "sounds plausible but wrong" neo-con/reactionary
myth busted.
Abruptly doubling the minimum wage to 15$/hour may have an
effect on employment, as it is far outside the historical
data range, but a phased increase of c. 1$/quarter in the
minimum wage rate to15$/hr, even if adjusted for inflation
(as it should be), should have minimal aggregate impact,
other than reducing the load the current poverty level wages
are placing on state and municipal budgets/tax rates (and
local tax payers), and internalizing back to business the
labor costs the cheap-screw employers have managed to
externalize [foist off] onto the taxpayers.
vinny
Oct 29, 2013, 8:30:34 PM10/29/13
to
news:q5sv69lgum4a2ihh7...@4ax.com...
Well, I think it's a farce.
One day they raise the minimum wage, the literal next day prices are up ALL
across the board.
However, I receive no raise to compensate.
I see the minimum wage as a distribution of wealth in an effort to create
one middle class. While raising up the bottom, the top falls.
That would be ok if it was natural, but it's not. It's a form of control.
I dont think raising the minimum wage will cost a single job. Frig, they
only raise it cents an hr usually.
I really dont buy the hipe it will crash small buisiness.
But it will raise the cost of living for me, it always does, however like I
said I will not get a raise from it, so my standard of living goes down.
And yes, I know minimum wagers deserve better, but I was a minimum wager. I
dog worked my way out of it before i hit my 20's.
I deserve my pay. I worked to get here, and have to perform daily to stay
here. Minimum wagers can go thru what i did, lifes a bitch.
Work 2 minimum wage jobs while you go to school. I did. Many did. Many do.
One day they raise the minimum wage, the literal next day prices are up ALL
across the board.
However, I receive no raise to compensate.
I see the minimum wage as a distribution of wealth in an effort to create
one middle class. While raising up the bottom, the top falls.
That would be ok if it was natural, but it's not. It's a form of control.
I dont think raising the minimum wage will cost a single job. Frig, they
only raise it cents an hr usually.
I really dont buy the hipe it will crash small buisiness.
But it will raise the cost of living for me, it always does, however like I
said I will not get a raise from it, so my standard of living goes down.
And yes, I know minimum wagers deserve better, but I was a minimum wager. I
dog worked my way out of it before i hit my 20's.
I deserve my pay. I worked to get here, and have to perform daily to stay
here. Minimum wagers can go thru what i did, lifes a bitch.
Work 2 minimum wage jobs while you go to school. I did. Many did. Many do.
dca...@krl.org
Oct 29, 2013, 9:05:55 PM10/29/13
to
What the minumum wage law really does................ It helps the high cost of living states because it increases the cost of living in low cost of living states.
Dan
F. George McDuffee
Oct 29, 2013, 10:10:44 PM10/29/13
to
On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 20:30:34 -0400, "vinny" <vi...@rock.com>
wrote:
<snip>
FWIW -- all civilization is unnatural (man-made) and a form
of control.
wrote:
<snip>
>While raising up the bottom, the top falls.
>That would be ok if it was natural, but it's not. It's a form of control.
<snip>
>That would be ok if it was natural, but it's not. It's a form of control.
FWIW -- all civilization is unnatural (man-made) and a form
of control.
F. George McDuffee
Oct 29, 2013, 10:13:32 PM10/29/13
to
On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 18:05:55 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
<dca...@krl.org> wrote:
<snip>
> He wanted to hire some teen age kids to spr=
>uce up the garden. I think the legal minimum wage was seven dollars or so.=
Looked for help in the wrong part of town.
<dca...@krl.org> wrote:
<snip>
> He wanted to hire some teen age kids to spr=
>uce up the garden. I think the legal minimum wage was seven dollars or so.=
> He could not find any teenagers willing to work for ten dollars an hour.
<snip>
Looked for help in the wrong part of town.
Rudy Canoza
Oct 29, 2013, 11:56:52 PM10/29/13
to
*can't* do any of it.
Artificially rigging the wage for unskilled labor above the market
clearing price puts that category of labor out of work - demonstrated
time and time again. It just doesn't work. It has an entirely perverse
effect, and the people it is *nominally* - that's the key - supposed to
help are actually harmed. The people it is really supposed to help -
organized labor - indeed do benefit.
jon_banquer
Oct 30, 2013, 12:08:04 AM10/30/13
to
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:56:52 PM UTC-7, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> Shut the fuck up, McDumpster. You haven't done any of that, and you
>
> *can't* do any of it.
George will not only keep posting but you will learn to like what he posts and say so.
> Shut the fuck up, McDumpster. You haven't done any of that, and you
>
> *can't* do any of it.
You got that, bitch?
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