US lacks expertise, China to build high speed rail in California
Ignoramus21954
anything due to the typical reasons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
John R. Carroll
"G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the next
five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more ambitious
infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the next three years on
overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly high-speed routes, according to
G.E. "
This is another reminder of the costs of protecting the carbon based energy
industry. China will spend $300 million on their infrastructure and we'll
spend an equal amount, much more really, on tax subsidized petroleum
products and ethanol.
Cheap gasoline is producing intellectual, technological, and industrial
poverty while simultaneously subsidizing ME oil producers.
It's a shame, and shameful.
How embarrasing.
--
John R. Carroll
Joseph Gwinn
Ignoramus21954 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
Yes. Given how dysfunctional California has become, it's hard to imagine that
this will come to anything.
Although the article doesn't mention it, I also assume that the Chinese underbid
the French TGV.
Joe Gwinn
William Wixon
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:VLWdnQvqQsmwsyLW...@giganews.com...
i responded privately to someone about the "mars mission" thread mentioning
upgrading the u.s. rail system would be a better way to spend the money
they'd spend on a manned mission to mars.
or exploring the oceans.
b.w.
RBnDFW
> Ignoramus21954 wrote:
>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>> anything due to the typical reasons.
>>
>>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>
> "G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the next
> five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more ambitious
> infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the next three years on
> overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly high-speed routes, according to
> G.E. "
Where the hell did California find $13 Billion ???
John R. Carroll
$13 billion dolars is pretty modest for an economy the size of California's
but what the article says is that the amount spent BY THE ENTIRE COUNTRY
will be $13 billion and over five years, a trivial amount given that America
will be an $80 trillion economy in the same period.
Bush spent $185 billion to bail out AIG, $30 billion on Bear Sterns, and
$700 billion on TARP.
As I said, this is a complete humiliation.
--
John R. Carroll
John R. Carroll
> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:VLWdnQvqQsmwsyLW...@giganews.com...
>> Ignoramus21954 wrote:
>>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>> anything due to the typical reasons.
>>>
>>>
>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>>
>> "G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the
>> next five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more
>> ambitious infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the
>> next three years on overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly
>> high-speed routes, according to
>> G.E. "
>>
>> This is another reminder of the costs of protecting the carbon based
>> energy
>> industry. China will spend $300 million on their infrastructure and
>> we'll spend an equal amount, much more really, on tax subsidized
>> petroleum products and ethanol.
>> Cheap gasoline is producing intellectual, technological, and
>> industrial poverty while simultaneously subsidizing ME oil producers.
>>
>> It's a shame, and shameful.
>> How embarrasing.
>>
>>
>
>
> mentioning upgrading the u.s. rail system would be a better way to
> spend the money they'd spend on a manned mission to mars.
> or exploring the oceans.
>
National Geographic did a program on what it would take to make Mars
habitable.
It's possible, but would take more than a hundred years while we waited of
running the hardware that would be necessary to generate an atmosphere and
rudimentary plant life to take hold. Doable, in other words, but hardly an
undertaking for a society of impatient's.
Congressional elections occur every two years.
On our present course we'd be preparing Mars for the Chinese.
--
John R. Carroll
sta...@prolynx.com
> RBnDFW wrote:
> > John R. Carroll wrote:
> >> Ignoramus21954 wrote:
> >>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
> >>> anything due to the typical reasons.
>
>
>
>
> >> "G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the
> >> next five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more
> >> ambitious infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the
> >> next three years on overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly
> >> high-speed routes, according to G.E. "
>
> > Where the hell did California find $13 Billion ???
>
> $13 billion dolars is pretty modest for an economy the size of California's
> but what the article says is that the amount spent BY THE ENTIRE COUNTRY
> will be $13 billion and over five years, a trivial amount given that America
> will be an $80 trillion economy in the same period.
>
> Bush spent $185 billion to bail out AIG, $30 billion on Bear Sterns, and
> $700 billion on TARP.
>
> As I said, this is a complete humiliation.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll
There's some slush in one of the monster bills for "high-speed rail"
in about 15 locales. It'll vanish into the pockets of various Beltway
Bandits for "studies" with some given to deserving Congresscritters
for their campaigns and nothing will get built. CO is supposedly one
area slated for it, you could probably give everyone in the state a
Lexus AND rebuild all the highway bridges for what they want to spend.
The problem with high-speed rail is that you need dedicated rail
lines, not freight-ways with passenger traffic on top. No private
company will fork out the bucks that's going to cost, just doing the
environmental studies would chew up billions. Return on investment is
iffy, too. The profits are in bulk freight, not passenger traffic.
Stan
John R. Carroll
> On Apr 9, 10:00 am, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>> RBnDFW wrote:
>>> John R. Carroll wrote:
>>>> Ignoramus21954 wrote:
>>>>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not
>>>>> build anything due to the typical reasons.
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&...
>>
>>
>>
>>>> "G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in
>>>> the next five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much
>>>> more ambitious infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in
>>>> the next three years on overall expansion of its rail routes,
>>>> mainly high-speed routes, according to G.E. "
>>
>>> Where the hell did California find $13 Billion ???
>>
>> $13 billion dolars is pretty modest for an economy the size of
>> California's but what the article says is that the amount spent BY
>> THE ENTIRE COUNTRY will be $13 billion and over five years, a
>> trivial amount given that America will be an $80 trillion economy in
>> the same period.
>>
>> Bush spent $185 billion to bail out AIG, $30 billion on Bear Sterns,
>> and $700 billion on TARP.
>>
>> As I said, this is a complete humiliation.
>
> in about 15 locales. It'll vanish into the pockets of various Beltway
> Bandits for "studies" with some given to deserving Congresscritters
> for their campaigns and nothing will get built. CO is supposedly one
> area slated for it, you could probably give everyone in the state a
> Lexus AND rebuild all the highway bridges for what they want to spend.
Rebuilding America's highway infrastructure is a $1.5 trillion dollar deal,
and that was one of the lower estimates I've seen.
We ought to do that as well. In fact, we ought to have been doing it right
along.
>
> The problem with high-speed rail is that you need dedicated rail
> lines, not freight-ways with passenger traffic on top. No private
> company will fork out the bucks that's going to cost, just doing the
> environmental studies would chew up billions.
We have a bunch of private freeways here in California that cost more. They
were built as bonded projects, which always impressed me as being very
stupid. Public money funding private toll roads - sheesh.
>Return on investment is
> iffy, too. The profits are in bulk freight, not passenger traffic.
Sure they are if you only have a bulk freight rail system<G>
--
John R. Carroll
Ed Huntress
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
And what would we have if we colonized it? Cleveland. We already have
Cleveland. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Eregon
> National Geographic did a program on what it would take to make Mars
> habitable.
> It's possible, but would take more than a hundred years while we
> waited of running the hardware that would be necessary to generate an
> atmosphere and rudimentary plant life to take hold. Doable, in other
> words, but hardly an undertaking for a society of impatient's.
> Congressional elections occur every two years.
>
> On our present course we'd be preparing Mars for the Chinese.
Since (under the present policies at any rate) the Chinese will be
picking up the tab, what's the downside?
After all, they're the ones who are exporting their population all around
the Pacific Rim already and would, most likely, jump at the chance to
provide the population for multiple Mars Colonies.
John R. Carroll
>
> And what would we have if we colonized it?
Martian's!
>Cleveland. We already have
> Cleveland. d8-)
Yeah well, there is that and Cleveland has a lot of company these days.
--
John R. Carroll
John R. Carroll
> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in
> news:FeydncSJ5ZfX1SLW...@giganews.com:
>
>> National Geographic did a program on what it would take to make Mars
>> habitable.
>> It's possible, but would take more than a hundred years while we
>> waited of running the hardware that would be necessary to generate an
>> atmosphere and rudimentary plant life to take hold. Doable, in other
>> words, but hardly an undertaking for a society of impatient's.
>> Congressional elections occur every two years.
>>
>> On our present course we'd be preparing Mars for the Chinese.
>
> Since (under the present policies at any rate) the Chinese will be
> picking up the tab, what's the downside?
America would continue to look more and more like China in terms of living
standards.
--
John R. Carroll
Eregon
That has been the goal of the Democrats since Lyndon Johnson became
President.
According to the party's leading economic theorists the reason for the
adverse Balance of Payments (imports higher than exports) was that, quite
simply, the US Standard of Living was too high and had to be reduced
BELOW that of the countries from whom the US imported goods. In this way
the US "consumer" (individual or corporation) could not afford to
purchase imported goods but other countries would eagerly purchase our
exports.
This theory matches what China has done: few, if any, imports other than
raw materials with many exports.
RBnDFW
As Sen Dirksen once said "A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon
you're talking real money"
John R. Carroll
Penny wise and pound foolish is more appropriate.
--
John R. Carroll
John R. Carroll
I hadn't heard that one. We must be listening to and reading different
economic theorists.
Our manufacturing balance of trade with the Chinese is about a wash right
now and has been.
In fact, if you take out imported oil, America is in OK condition in the
current accounts arena.
The Chinese have been buying a raw materials and high value add stuff from
us and we've been importing their crap.
That is obviously going to change if we can't bring our own high value added
capacity competitively - or in this case, at all.
>
> This theory matches what China has done: few, if any, imports other
> than raw materials with many exports.
OK
Wrong and untrue, but Okie Dokey.
--
John R. Carroll
Eregon
You weren't paying much, if any, attention to the news media during the
'70s.
This was reported as the primary reason for the hyperinflation instigated
as n integral feature of LBJ's "Great Society".
> Our manufacturing balance of trade with the Chinese is about a wash
> right now and has been.
Manufacturing is only a small part - think "financial" and you'll see a
major imbalance.
> In fact, if you take out imported oil, America is in OK condition in
> the current accounts arena.
Dream on.
> The Chinese have been buying a raw materials and high value add stuff
> from us and we've been importing their crap.
What "stuff"? They've been doing most of their "shopping" in Europe.
> That is obviously going to change if we can't bring our own high value
> added capacity competitively - or in this case, at all.
>
What do we have left that they haven't already bought or stolen?
John R. Carroll
> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in
> news:tLmdnZ-4Lpi4wSLW...@giganews.com:
>
>> Eregon wrote:
>>> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in
>>> news:1M6dnbvu_9rFziLW...@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>> Eregon wrote:
>>>>> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in
>>>>> news:FeydncSJ5ZfX1SLW...@giganews.com:
>>>>>
>>
>> different economic theorists.
>
> You weren't paying much, if any, attention to the news media during
> the '70s.
I wasn't.
>
> This was reported as the primary reason for the hyperinflation
> instigated as n integral feature of LBJ's "Great Society".
I thought it was blowing a ton of money on VN and the formation of OPEC.
>
>> Our manufacturing balance of trade with the Chinese is about a wash
>> right now and has been.
>
> Manufacturing is only a small part - think "financial" and you'll see
> a major imbalance.
>
>> In fact, if you take out imported oil, America is in OK condition in
>> the current accounts arena.
>
> Dream on.
Well, that's what the actual numbers say.
>
>> The Chinese have been buying a raw materials and high value add stuff
>> from us and we've been importing their crap.
>
> What "stuff"? They've been doing most of their "shopping" in Europe.
They have been buying things like semiconductor fabs almost exclusively from
the US. I think most of Cat's production goes to China.
That's just two examples of many. Just look around a little and you will
find lots of info on exports - even the actual data.
You'll also see a lot of uninformed BS.
America has done a poor job of charging admission to our market. That's what
happens when you mix "spreading democracy" and economic policy.
--
John R. Carroll
Ed Huntress
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:tLmdnZ-4Lpi4wSLW...@giganews.com...
Eh, John, if you figure out Eregon's thinking on this, please give me a
summary, Ok? My neck just cracked like a whip trying to follow it. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Tim Wescott
Well, we're done exporting the low-paying jobs, and the medium-paying
ones to China; it's time to start in on the really high-paying ones.
--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
John R. Carroll
> a summary, Ok?
Sure Ed and when that happens you come by with the guys in white jackets <G>
I actually think I know where this is coming from and it was Southern
Democrats like Zell Miller, people soon to change party's, and Republicans.
An interpretive reading of the "facts" if you will. We are seeing the same
nonsense from the two bright lights of today's Republican party - Sarah and
Michelle.
LOL
>My neck just cracked like a whip trying to follow it.
> d8-)
Had a "WTF" moment did you? Have you ever noticed that those moments are
usually accompanied by tipping your head to one side and squinting?
Hahahaha!
--
John R. Carroll
Ed Huntress
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
Conspiracy theories in economics are always interesting, much more than
those strictly about power and politics, but they always have a fatal flaw:
the idea that someone actually has the economic understanding and the power
to control the things that are allegedly being manipulated. The truth is,
nobody ever has that much control, or has anything like a certain idea about
how to get a particular economic result.
The conspiracy theories always look better in retrospect: This is what
happened, and the unhappy result is something that someone with evil intent
planned and schemed to accomplish; and now that we can see what they
accomplished we can look in our rearview mirrors and deconstruct the steps
they took to get us here.
Except that no one really had a freaking clue all along.
--
Ed Huntress
Mark Rand
>In article <PYydnYSxhYSWgSLW...@giganews.com>,
>
>Although the article doesn't mention it, I also assume that the Chinese underbid
>the French TGV.
>
>Joe Gwinn
I would expect they did. Two other factors might be that ALSTOM and GE are not
that good at cooperating, since they are direct competitors in much of their
business and the current AGV trainsets are 50% faster than what's being looked
at for this project, so a bit more towards the premium end of the market.
Mark Rand
RTFM
John R. Carroll
It will be hard to compete with the Chinese. All of the manufacturers in
China will be getting a ten percent kick back from their government for
everything exported. On that basis, they can bid the job at cost and stil
make a good profit.
--
John R. Carroll
Wes
You mean like environmental regulations and eminent domain lawsuits? High speed rail,
NIMBY!
Wes
Bill McKee
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:7TMvn.164585$Bs1....@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
It is not NIMBY. A majority of the voters voted for a debacle. The train
can not go 150 mph for most of it's route. Does not go where the people
need it. And the cost will be so high, would be cheaper to give free
airplane tickets out. They are talking about going to San Francisco and the
Transbay Terminal. Where are you going to run a 100+ mph train?
Burlingame, says put it underground. Add another billion to the build
costs. Then you will have employees making living wages just like BART.
$80k+ fully paid retirement and benefits for someone with a GED. Ride the
TGV in France from Lyons to Paris. Most of the trip is maybe 75 mph. The
building trades unions are all for it. They were one of the sponsors of
the initiative. Get a couple years employment and then what. What is the
people of California will be spending billions paying for the bonds.
Cheaper to give them welfare.
Larry Jaques
<clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
NIMBY, where I keep my San Andreas and dozens of other faults. ;)
--
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace
will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will
blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy,
while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.
-- John Muir
Gunner Asch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>anything due to the typical reasons.
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
America to build railroads"
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Mark Rand
wrote:
Not quite. Schedule time between Paris and Lyon is almost exactly 2 hours for
a 280 mile trip.
Since they upgraded the lines and stations from the Victorian standards we
had, we now get Pendolino trains passing at 110mph 30 yards from the car park
at work. They make less disturbance than the 30mph traffic on the road at the
same distance.
Still be better if they were steam, though :-)
Mark Rand
RTFM
Wes
>Since they upgraded the lines and stations from the Victorian standards we
>had, we now get Pendolino trains passing at 110mph 30 yards from the car park
>at work. They make less disturbance than the 30mph traffic on the road at the
>same distance.
Every time I hear high speed train, I start thinking about some nutjob welding a couple
ramps to the rail to cause a derailment. Since there are terror types trying to blow up
air planes, it would seem logical that attacking a high speed train railway would just as
attractive.
>
>Still be better if they were steam, though :-)
Haven't you heard that coal is bad?
Wes
Larry Jaques
<gunne...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:22:35 -0500, Ignoramus21954
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>
>>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>anything due to the typical reasons.
>>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>
>
>Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
>America to build railroads"
Yabbut, this time, they insist upon being paid in advance for it. And
we're insisting on doing all the labor ourselves, no doubt paying top
dollar to unionistas instead of putting people to work at decent
wages. I wish Ahnold luck in funding it, though.
David R.Birch
Put a small nuclear reactor in the engine. No coal!
David
Joseph Gwinn
"Bill McKee" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> "Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:7TMvn.164585$Bs1....@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
> > Ignoramus21954 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
> >>anything due to the typical reasons.
> >>
> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=bus
> >>iness
> >
> > You mean like environmental regulations and eminent domain lawsuits? High
> > speed rail, NIMBY!
> >
> > Wes
>
> .... Ride the
> TGV in France from Lyons to Paris. Most of the trip is maybe 75 mph.
Umm, no. I have taken the TGV from Paris to Lyon, and back, a day trip taken
just to try the TGV out. Most of the time, it's hard to watch the scenery as it
is flying by - far too fast, visually disturbing. Looking out of a car at 75
mph has no such effect. And, as others have pointed out, if you compute the
average speed from the train schedule, the TGV must be going far faster.
Where did the 75 mph estimate come from?
Joe Gwinn
Gunner Asch
<lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:36:21 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
><gunne...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>
>>On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:22:35 -0500, Ignoramus21954
>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>>anything due to the typical reasons.
>>>
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>>
>>
>>Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
>>America to build railroads"
>
>Yabbut, this time, they insist upon being paid in advance for it. And
>we're insisting on doing all the labor ourselves, no doubt paying top
>dollar to unionistas instead of putting people to work at decent
>wages. I wish Ahnold luck in funding it, though.
So the sides of the railroads across the nation wont be fertilized by
the mouldering bodies of Chinese and Irish?
Wes
>Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
>America to build railroads"
Some of them stayed and became Americans as did the Irish.
I can't remember the book but there was a part where some Chinese were prepping a rock
face to blow it for a tunnel. Some foreman type was attempting to tell them how to set
the charge and one of the chinese crew said, something to effect we know what we are
doing, the chinese invented gunpowder.
I wish I had a better memory.
Wes
Gunner Asch
>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
>>America to build railroads"
>
>Some of them stayed and became Americans as did the Irish.
And many many thousands of both became part of the railroad sceanery as
they died and were buried along side the tracks.
>
>I can't remember the book but there was a part where some Chinese were prepping a rock
>face to blow it for a tunnel. Some foreman type was attempting to tell them how to set
>the charge and one of the chinese crew said, something to effect we know what we are
>doing, the chinese invented gunpowder.
They were very smart, though not well educated, but learned very fast
and became marvelous citizens.
>
>I wish I had a better memory.
>
>Wes
Ignoramus27467
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:22:35 -0500, Ignoramus21954
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>
>>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>anything due to the typical reasons.
>>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>
>
> Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
> America to build railroads"
They built railtoads? What else happened?
Ignoramus27467
I should refrain from posting under influence... I meant
railroads... not railtoads
Spehro Pefhany
Sweet and sour chicken balls and moo goo gai pan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Chinese_cuisine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Chinese_cuisine
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Larry Jaques
<gunne...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 06:57:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:36:21 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
>><gunne...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:22:35 -0500, Ignoramus21954
>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>>>anything due to the typical reasons.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>>>
>>>
>>>Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
>>>America to build railroads"
>>
>>Yabbut, this time, they insist upon being paid in advance for it. And
>>we're insisting on doing all the labor ourselves, no doubt paying top
>>dollar to unionistas instead of putting people to work at decent
>>wages. I wish Ahnold luck in funding it, though.
>
>
>So the sides of the railroads across the nation wont be fertilized by
>the mouldering bodies of Chinese and Irish?
Nope. It'll be illegal aliens (and a few USAtians) if the unions and
Liberals have any say in it...and they have a lot of say both there
and here. <disgruntled sigh>
Eregon
news:5oc2s51n8bhsorff1...@4ax.com:
> On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:20:18 -0500, the renowned Ignoramus27467
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.27467.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-04-10, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:22:35 -0500, Ignoramus21954
>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>>>anything due to the typical reasons.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&
>>>>ref=business
>>>
>>>
>>> Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
>>> America to build railroads"
>>
>>They built railtoads? What else happened?
>
> Sweet and sour chicken balls and moo goo gai pan.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Chinese_cuisine
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Chinese_cuisine
>
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany
Also Chop Suey. <grin>
Iggy really _should_ do his own research. <GRIN>
Gunner Asch
You havent been following the thread have you?
Gunner Asch
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:20:18 -0500, the renowned Ignoramus27467
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.27467.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-04-10, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:22:35 -0500, Ignoramus21954
>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>>>anything due to the typical reasons.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>>>
>>>
>>> Its interesting to know what happened the last time "chinese came to
>>> America to build railroads"
>>
>>They built railtoads? What else happened?
>
>Sweet and sour chicken balls and moo goo gai pan.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Chinese_cuisine
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Chinese_cuisine
>
YUMMMM!!!!
>
>Best regards,
>Spehro Pefhany
Bill McKee
"Mark Rand" <ra...@internettie.co.uk> wrote in message
news:n7p0s5pcf563fnqou...@4ax.com...
My last trip maybe 5 years ago from Avignon to Paris was about 3.5 hours and
lots of it was slow. They may have upgraded since then. But if you stop at
many stations in the Central Valley of Calif the time will really slow down.
Plus the problem of going over the mountains from LA to the central valley.
The Grapevine is 4000' high at the summit and it is only about 40 miles
across. Sea level to 4000' back to near sea level in 40 miles. Might be
tough for a 180 mph train.
Bill McKee
"Joseph Gwinn" <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:joegwinn-EA83EA...@news.giganews.com...
See my other post.
Gunner Asch
<bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
I go over the Grapevine about 2x a week..and there are NO traintracks up
there. There is over on the coast, but most of the trains go up via
the 15 freeway route or along the coast.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/states/california/california-railway-map.html
Gunner
John Husvar
"David R.Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
Can't do it! It'd have to be a nucular reactor, though the reasons are
uncular.
>
> David
Joseph Gwinn
"Bill McKee" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Which one? Please be precise. I wasn't following the thread all that closely.
Thanks,
Joe Gwinn
Bill McKee
This one:
John R. Carroll
> "Joseph Gwinn" <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:joegwinn-CE3E5D...@news.giganews.com...
>> In article <8-qdnezi64oC9VzW...@earthlink.com>,
>> "Bill McKee" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Joseph Gwinn" <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:joegwinn-EA83EA...@news.giganews.com...
>>>> In article <rI-dncLBAs7YWSLW...@earthlink.com>,
>>>> "Bill McKee" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:7TMvn.164585$Bs1....@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>> Ignoramus21954 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not
>>>>>>> build anything due to the typical reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=
>>>>>>> bus
>>>>>>> iness
>>>>>>
> hours and lots of it was slow. They may have upgraded since then.
> But if you stop at many stations in the Central Valley of Calif the
> time will really slow down. Plus the problem of going over the
> mountains from LA to the central valley. The Grapevine is 4000' high
> at the summit and it is only about 40 miles across. Sea level to
> 4000' back to near sea level in 40 miles. Might be tough for a 180
> mph train
Or you could just do what people do when the Grapevine is closed and go
around it.
--
John R. Carroll
Martin H. Eastburn
I started at 2 at the 'Dirty Duck' my name for the Black Swan on the road to
Vacaville Ca. from Suisun City. I was 2 at the time and was recovering from
being run over by a milk truck. Broken ribs - all of them. Tape city...
I'd walk in and they would fuss over me - knowing what I wanted before we
sat down. They brought me a bowl of green onions and the menus.
Those were fun days in a 2 door BLACK coup. Soon to be a Fire engine RED
station wagon!
We have Orange Chicken 2 to 4 times a month. Stir fry and what not as well.
Several other dishes are made since we like the feed.
I also like Japanese.
Martin
Lewis Hartswick
>
> I should refrain from posting under influence... I meant
> railroads... not railtoads
I do it all to often. :-)
...lew...
Lewis Hartswick
Larry Jaques
<lhart...@earthlink.net> scrawled the following:
You're _such_ an enabler, Lew. <tsk tsk tsk>
Joseph Gwinn
"Bill McKee" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
My trip was Paris -> Lyon then Lyon -> Paris, and they must have upgraded,
because most was faster than 75 mph.
> But if you stop at
> many stations in the Central Valley of Calif the time will really slow down.
> Plus the problem of going over the mountains from LA to the central valley.
> The Grapevine is 4000' high at the summit and it is only about 40 miles
> across. Sea level to 4000' back to near sea level in 40 miles. Might be
> tough for a 180 mph train
I don't know that the climbing is necessarily a problem, as this can be designed
for, but stops are always a problem. This is always a fight - every podunk town
thinks they must be a stop. But in the end, podunk remains podunk.
Joe Gwinn
Bill McKee
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:1rCdnSewmvzFzl_W...@giganews.com...
Another $5 billion?
John R. Carroll
That's got to be the cheaper solution so it wouldn't be another five
billion, it might be five billion less.
--
John R. Carroll
Gunner Asch
<bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>> My last trip maybe 5 years ago from Avignon to Paris was about 3.5
>>> hours and lots of it was slow. They may have upgraded since then.
>>> But if you stop at many stations in the Central Valley of Calif the
>>> time will really slow down. Plus the problem of going over the
>>> mountains from LA to the central valley. The Grapevine is 4000' high
>>> at the summit and it is only about 40 miles across. Sea level to
>>> 4000' back to near sea level in 40 miles. Might be tough for a 180
>>> mph train
>>
>> Or you could just do what people do when the Grapevine is closed and go
>> around it.
>>
>> --
>> John R. Carroll
>>
>>
>
>Another $5 billion?
Another 3 hours one way..nearly 5 hours the other way.
Bill McKee
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
The problem is all those "public projects" seem to come way in over budget.
Lowballed to get it by the voters. BART was going to be $700 million.
Everyone with a brain knew that was 3-4x low. Plus to go the coast route,
to get around the Grapevine will add a couple hours of time to the trip.
The problem is there is not enough people that will utilize the service. It
will either have to massively subsidized to keep the price down, or gas and
airplane fares will have to skyrocket. I drive from Pleasanton to LA a few
times a year as the kids and grandbabies live there. Takes about 5 hours
and $60 in gas each way. I get to take lots of stuff with us and have a car
when I get there. Flying takes about 3 hours each way, when you include
getting to the airport, parking and security. And you can get tickets for
about $50 a person on sale. Hard for the government to compete with that
price structure when you have to spend many, many billions to build the
system as well as the cost to run the trains.
John R. Carroll
> budget.
Oh, I thought it was the Grapevine.
>Lowballed to get it by the voters.
Sometimes.
>BART was going to be $700
> million. Everyone with a brain knew that was 3-4x low. Plus to go
> the coast route, to get around the Grapevine will add a couple hours
> of time to the trip.
You don't go down the coast, you go around the mountain to the east just
like the old road does.
It adds about an hour and a half to the trip by car and a lot of that is
through towns. It would be trivial by HS rail and rights of way wouldn't be
an issue. You'd kill a lot of birds with a single stone.
>The problem is there is not enough people that
> will utilize the service. It will either have to massively
> subsidized to keep the price down, or gas and airplane fares will
> have to skyrocket. I drive from Pleasanton to LA a few times a year
> as the kids and grandbabies live there. Takes about 5 hours and $60
> in gas each way.
I'd say more like six hours but it depends. LA is an hour or more long.
There is also a significant cost associated with depreciation involved. I
stopped flying up to my office in "The City" after 9/11 because I could
drive it faster and didn't have to bother with a rental or cab when I
arrived. Torrance to San Jose is 5 hours if you get out of LA at 2 AM. I
could make downtown SF in about 6.
The Metroliner from SF south is full, or nearly so, every trip. It's also
slow. Given that, high speed rail on the same route would probably have
decent ridership.
The best routes would be East to West and cover some distance anyway.
>I get to take lots of stuff with us and have a car
> when I get there. Flying takes about 3 hours each way, when you
> include getting to the airport, parking and security. And you can
> get tickets for about $50 a person on sale. Hard for the government
> to compete with that price structure when you have to spend many,
> many billions to build the system as well as the cost to run the
> trains.
It isn't "the government" that will be competing. The only thing the
government will be doing is providing funding, probably as bonds, along with
the Chinese. As far as I know, the private sector will end up owning all of
this.
--
John R. Carroll