Soldering small
Don Foreman
Today I putzed with making suitable drive electronics for my
summertime bug-free yellow LED reading light mentioned here before:
http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellowlight/
Being retired and somewhat incorrigable, today became more of a
"wonder if I can" rather than goal-directed activity making any
rational sense. I don't have to make sense. I'm retired!
I have 150 pcs of LM358 opamp in the mini SO-8 package in my goodiebox
so I wondered if I could solder leads to one.
I did.
http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellow_lite_elex/
The wire is #30AWG wire wrap wire, .010" dia. I gobbed some 5-minute
epoxy on afterwards to add some robustness.
Guess I'm still ahead of the DT's and Parkinson's. Knock on wood!
The current regulator, comprised of this opamp, three resistors and a
MOSFET, will be a "bulge in the cord" of a surplus switcher wallwart
(as suggested by Spehro) that I found at Electronic Goldmine for the
$2.99 or so that Spehro mentioned. I'll house it in a bit of plastic
water pipe (ABS?) already turned down to about .034" wall thickness.
It's about 5/8" ID. I discovered by experiment today that this stuff
easily handles 80 degC, relevant because the goo I plan to use to pot
the elex in the tube needs 80C to cure in less than a lifetime. My
CBCR (cord bulge current regulator) doesn't really need to be potted,
but I may as well use this really good 3M Scotchcast resin before it
turns to rock from old age. I'm amazed that it hasn't already done
so.
Maybe more later on this.
Ignoramus5865
The smallest soldering for me happened when I was fixing my son's MP3
player. It would not power up.
I took the player apart and found the issue (which was not obvious
prior to taking it apart). What broke was the on/off switch. It was
soldered and fell off due to inadequate support.
Soldering it back on was a challenge for me, but it did work out.
i
James Waldby
> Today I putzed with making suitable drive electronics for my summertime
> bug-free yellow LED reading light mentioned here before:
> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellowlight/
...
> I have 150 pcs of LM358 opamp in the mini SO-8 package in my goodiebox
> so I wondered if I could solder leads to one.
>
> I did.
> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellow_lite_elex/
>
> The wire is #30AWG wire wrap wire, .010" dia. I gobbed some 5-minute
> epoxy on afterwards to add some robustness.
...
That looks like it will work fine, but for your other SO-8
packages, note that that the 0.050" lead spacing of SO-8
matches the 0.050 card edge pin spacing on PCI cards. If
you have any old PCI interface cards sitting around, you
can cut off sections of card edge to use as PCB's for making
prototypes. (Of course, if not in a hurry, you can have
a real $13 PCB made via <http://www.batchpcb.com>.)
--
jiw
Buerste
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:m21fn5hu4auuhmkmd...@4ax.com...
Nice job! I know I've lost a lot of my ability to do really small stuff. I
did solder some cracked surface mount ICs on a Dell laptop, a well
documented problem. Now I've accumulated a bunch of optics and mechanical
helpers for fine work. I really like my $50 200 power zoom lighted
still/video microscope!
I'm contemplating a fix for a Toshiba laptop video card that has ball array
mounted memory chips that need repair...no replacement cards available.
I'll build a dam on each chip and fill it with molten lead from my lead pot.
What do I make the dam from? What temp should the lead be to fix the array
yet not fry the chips?
Winston
> (Of course, if not in a hurry, you can have
> a real $13 PCB made via<http://www.batchpcb.com>.)
"$8.00/sq. in. for 4 layer designs"
Bless you, James!
--Winston
amdx
> Nice job! I know I've lost a lot of my ability to do really small stuff.
> I did solder some cracked surface mount ICs on a Dell laptop, a well
> documented problem. Now I've accumulated a bunch of optics and mechanical
> helpers for fine work. I really like my $50 200 power zoom lighted
> still/video microscope!
Do you have a link to your $50 200 power zoom lighted still/video
microscope!
Mike
Glenn Lyford
> mounted memory chips that need repair...no replacement cards available.
> I'll build a dam on each chip and fill it with molten lead from my lead pot.
> What do I make the dam from? What temp should the lead be to fix the array
> yet not fry the chips?
I am not sure of the temp, but in the industry hot air is used to
apply or reflow those, and a fixture holds the chip up off the circuit
board so that it's weight does not squish all the solder balls into
one massive solder short. Duration of heat application is also
critical, to not get either cold solder or overcooked, this is all
done with a huge machine with special fixtures for each board and chip
used, copper chills on the back, computer timed and regulated airflow,
and to move the chip that last mm into contact at the exact right
moment. If it was made with lead-free solder, it is even fussier about
process parameters. I'd suggest finding another video card on eBay
except I suspect any other card made at about the same time will show
similar issues. I don't think BGAs (ball grid arrays) have the same
lifespan as QFPs, etc. Still, I think I'd try a used pull before I
tried to reflow a BGA without the machine...
--Glenn Lyford
Buerste
"amdx" <am...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:9b480$4b77e88b$18ec6dd7$22...@KNOLOGY.NET...
There's millions of them on ebay.
Buerste
"Glenn Lyford" <gly...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:013d6d23-1559-4d03...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
********************************************
It was such a problem that there ARE no pulls. I've seen a couple go for
$200! That's a lot for an old laptop that's worth $100...and nothing really
to me, I just enjoy fussing with all the laptops that a buddy brings me. He
works for the city and pulls them out of the rubbish trucks. I have about
twenty in the garage now waiting and in the past I have gotten about a third
of them up and running. Usually it's something simple like a hard drive, a
battery, a keyboard or sometimes it's just been replaced with a new one.
Sometimes the drives have somebody's entire financial info and all their
pictures, and of course...plenty of porn!
It's better than doing sudoku to keep a sharp mind!
Bob Engelhardt
actual size* & it was much more impressive. What kind/size of iron &
solder? Any special technique?
Nice picture, too. Any special technique for it?
Keep up the good work,
Bob
* - using the FireFox "Image Zoom" plug in.
Wes
>
>Today I putzed with making suitable drive electronics for my
>summertime bug-free yellow LED reading light mentioned here before:
>http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellowlight/
>
>Being retired and somewhat incorrigable, today became more of a
>"wonder if I can" rather than goal-directed activity making any
>rational sense. I don't have to make sense. I'm retired!
>
>I have 150 pcs of LM358 opamp in the mini SO-8 package in my goodiebox
>so I wondered if I could solder leads to one.
>
>I did.
>http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellow_lite_elex/
>
>The wire is #30AWG wire wrap wire, .010" dia. I gobbed some 5-minute
>epoxy on afterwards to add some robustness.
>
>Guess I'm still ahead of the DT's and Parkinson's. Knock on wood!
Don, you sure have a steady hand. Did you use a microscope to see those 0.050" spaced
pads?
If I tried that, I'd have two big solderballs.
Tell us your technique please.
Wes
Don Foreman
wrote:
>
>That looks like it will work fine, but for your other SO-8
>packages, note that that the 0.050" lead spacing of SO-8
>matches the 0.050 card edge pin spacing on PCI cards. If
>you have any old PCI interface cards sitting around, you
>can cut off sections of card edge to use as PCB's for making
>prototypes. (Of course, if not in a hurry, you can have
>a real $13 PCB made via <http://www.batchpcb.com>.)
I didn't know about those guys. Thanks!
Jim Stewart
> I have 150 pcs of LM358 opamp in the mini SO-8 package in my goodiebox
> so I wondered if I could solder leads to one.
>
> I did.
> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellow_lite_elex/
>
> The wire is #30AWG wire wrap wire, .010" dia. I gobbed some 5-minute
> epoxy on afterwards to add some robustness.
I do way too much of this stuff myself. I often
make prototypes by supergluing the part upside
down to bare copper pcb laminate then soldering
the wires. Little bits of double stick foam tape
work well for positioning the wires.
Good luck on the BGA. I've never been able to
successfully attach wires to one. Let us know
if you get it to work.
Don Foreman
<bobeng...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Nice soldering. The macro picture makes it look easy. I zoomed out to
>actual size* & it was much more impressive. What kind/size of iron &
>solder? Any special technique?
The iron is a Pace TW100. I don't know what the part number of the tip
is. The small one! Solder is ordinary Sn63Pb37 .015" dia.
I held the chip in a pair of locking tweezers in a small Palmgren
drillpress vise, the wire in another pair of locking tweezers in
another drillpress vise, slid the wire into position, rested my hand
on the solder spool, snuck up on the connection and applied solder.
>
>Nice picture, too. Any special technique for it?
Nope. Nikon 990 on a tripod, bench lamp for lighting.
Don Foreman
Those aren't spaced .050. This is a mini-SO8 with pins spaced .026"
on centers. Gaps between pins are about 0.015". I use a Meiji
binocular zoom microscope set at about 5X magnification.
>
>If I tried that, I'd have two big solderballs.
>
>Tell us your technique please.
Reported in another post a few minutes ago. With the right tools, it's
really not as tricky as it may seem. They are: a microscope and the
Pace soldering station.
http://www.happcontrols.com/tools/92144600.htm
Ah! The tip is 1124-0003-P1
http://www.happcontrols.com/tools/92144700.htm
The guy that showed me how to work with surfacemount stuff uses the
Pace Heatwise station. Same iron, no digital readout.
http://www.happcontrols.com/tools/92144500.htm
His optical aid is a Mantis, really cool but not found on EBay in
nearly the plenty that good binoc microscopes are, or were when I was
looking anyway.
http://www.visioneng.com/elite_overview.php
>
>
>Wes
Bob Engelhardt
> There's millions of them on ebay.
Like this: USB, 10 - 200x, 1.3Mpixel, $57?
http://tinyurl.com/yglupmz
This one is 1/2 the resolution & twice the price (lots of example pix):
http://tinyurl.com/yausz59
How does one go about choosing one?
Thanks for awakening me to the existence of a new toy ... er, tool,
Bob
Jim Wilkins
> Buerste wrote:
> > There's millions of them on ebay.
>
> This one is 1/2 the resolution & twice the price (lots of example pix):http://tinyurl.com/yausz59
>
> How does one go about choosing one?
>
> Thanks for awakening me to the existence of a new toy ... er, tool,
> Bob
I prefer an Optivisor headband magnifier for soldering because of the
depth perception, though the cameras are better for inspecting the
joints afterwards.
SO leads are flexible enough to straighten out with pliers, then you
can glue them down label side up. You can lash them to a popsicle
stick etc with the fine wire and then push the strands into place over
the leads to make soldering easier.
jsw, who spent the last few days soldering these lovely little jewels
because "no one else can":
http://www.binder-usa.com/psearch.php#q=ProductCategory%3DCircular%20Connectors
Richard J Kinch
> bug-free yellow
Is this real? It always seemed like a phony gimmick to sell light bulbs.
The incandescent color filtering can't have been high Q enough to affect
insects, just a slight effect to impress the rubes. LEDs would be another
matter.
Richard J Kinch
> Like this: USB, 10 - 200x, 1.3Mpixel, $57?
> http://tinyurl.com/yglupmz
Magnification is meaningless in photomicroscopy, since you can enlarge a
photograph all you like. Spatial resolution is all that counts.
Don Foreman
The next word in my post after "bug-free yellow" that you excerpted
was "LED". I'm using an amber 2.5-watt Luxeon LED. It really is
ignored by bugs. I'm replacing one I made 2 years ago that disappeared
last summer so I'm not hypothesizing here. It works, at the lake, in
Minnesota.
In addition to being quite narrow spectrum, it also runs cool and
emits about no IR.
Doug White
>
> Today I putzed with making suitable drive electronics for my
> summertime bug-free yellow LED reading light mentioned here before:
> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellowlight/
>
> Being retired and somewhat incorrigable, today became more of a
> "wonder if I can" rather than goal-directed activity making any
> rational sense. I don't have to make sense. I'm retired!
>
> I have 150 pcs of LM358 opamp in the mini SO-8 package in my goodiebox
> so I wondered if I could solder leads to one.
>
> I did.
> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellow_lite_elex/
>
> The wire is #30AWG wire wrap wire, .010" dia. I gobbed some 5-minute
> epoxy on afterwards to add some robustness.
>
> Guess I'm still ahead of the DT's and Parkinson's. Knock on wood!
Nice work! We have only a couple techs at work who are up to "dead-
bugging" stuff that small with #30 wire. They do it fairly often when
someone screws up a layout or needs to add a part to a design.
I made a "part holder" for soldering small surface mount parts a while
back, and I've been thinking about turning it into a "product" for my
retirement. I won't get rich, but it would be fun to make. The actual
bit that holds the part down is currently a chunk of "orange stick". It
tolerates soldering temps, can be sharpened to suit and is disposable.
The catch is that orange sticks aren't ESD approved. I've been trying to
think of something that isn't too pricey that I could replace it with.
It needs to stand up to soldering temps, be static dissipative, and
thermally non-conducting. It should be moderately rigid, but soft enough
that it can be whittled or pointed. Something in ~ 3/16" diameter rod
would be perfect.
Does anyone know if I can buy carbon loaded teflon rod? Any other ideas
for a material?
Thanks!
Doug White
sta...@prolynx.com
> Don Foreman <dfore...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote innews:m21fn5hu4auuhmkmd...@4ax.com:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Try a regular pencil. Nice graphite core, cheap, eraser end can be
used on corroded contacts.
For those still trying to use wire solder on that small stuff, solder
paste in a syringe is your friend.
Stan
Bob Engelhardt
>...
> I made a "part holder" for soldering small surface mount parts a while
> back, and I've been thinking about turning it into a "product" for my
If I were in the market for such a device, a feature that I would dearly
love to have is isolation of the tabs for soldering. I.e., a barrier to
keep me from getting solder where I don't want it.
Good luck,
Bob
Doug White
news:9c2d9a14-e7b0-4362...@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 15, 2:05�pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> Don Foreman <dfore...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote
>> innews:m21fn5hu4auuhmkm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Today I putzed with making suitable drive electronics for my
>> > summertime bug-free yellow LED reading light mentioned here before:
>> >http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellowlight/
>>
>> > Being retired and somewhat incorrigable, today became more of a
>> > "wonder if I can" rather than goal-directed activity making any
>> > rational sense. �I don't have to make sense. �I'm retired!
>>
>> > I have 150 pcs of LM358 opamp in the mini SO-8 package in my
>> > goodiebox so I wondered if I could solder leads to one.
>>
>> > I did.
>> >http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellow_lite_elex/
>>
>> > The wire is #30AWG wire wrap wire, .010" dia. I gobbed some
>> > 5-minute epoxy on afterwards to add some robustness. �
>>
>> > Guess I'm still ahead of the DT's and Parkinson's. �Knock on wood!
>>
>> Nice work! �We have only a couple techs at work who are up to "dead-
>> bugging" stuff that small with #30 wire. �They do it fairly often
>> when someone screws up a layout or needs to add a part to a design.
>>
>> I made a "part holder" for soldering small surface mount parts a
>> while back, and I've been thinking about turning it into a "product"
>> for my retirement. �I won't get rich, but it would be fun to make.
>> �The actu
> al
>> bit that holds the part down is currently a chunk of "orange stick".
>> �I
> t
>> tolerates soldering temps, can be sharpened to suit and is
>> disposable.
> �
>>
>> The catch is that orange sticks aren't ESD approved. �I've been
>> trying
> to
>> think of something that isn't too pricey that I could replace it
>> with.
> �
>> It needs to stand up to soldering temps, be static dissipative, and
>> thermally non-conducting. �It should be moderately rigid, but soft
>> enou
> gh
>> that it can be whittled or pointed. �Something in ~ 3/16" diameter
>> rod would be perfect.
>>
>> Does anyone know if I can buy carbon loaded teflon rod? �Any other
>> idea
> s
>> for a material?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Doug White- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Try a regular pencil. Nice graphite core, cheap, eraser end can be
> used on corroded contacts.
Interesting idea. I'm not sure how conductive they are. I think it's
mostly clay.
> For those still trying to use wire solder on that small stuff, solder
> paste in a syringe is your friend.
The solder paste at Digikey has a finite shelf life & is supposed to be
refrigerated. For the amount of work I typcally do, I've always been
afraid it will die before I can use even a 10th of it. Have you had any
problems with it goign bad? I don't even know what the symptoms would
be, probably poor flux behavior, or lots of oxides in the solder.
I have 15 mil diameter solder that works pretty well on tiny stuff.
Doug White
Doug White
news:hlcga...@news2.newsguy.com:
Hmm. That gets tricky. This thing isn't much more than a fine point
paperweight, but you could add a moveable teflon baffle to it.
Doug White
Jim Wilkins
> sta...@prolynx.com wrote innews:9c2d9a14-e7b0-4362...@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> ...
>
> > For those still trying to use wire solder on that small stuff, solder
> > paste in a syringe is your friend.
>
> The solder paste at Digikey has a finite shelf life & is supposed to be
> refrigerated. For the amount of work I typcally do, I've always been
> afraid it will die before I can use even a 10th of it. Have you had any
> problems with it goign bad? I don't even know what the symptoms would
> be, probably poor flux behavior, or lots of oxides in the solder.
>
> I have 15 mil diameter solder that works pretty well on tiny stuff.
>
> Doug White
One early symptom is tiny solder balls in the flux around the joint. I
didn't like the way it performs after about 6 months in the lab
refrigerator.
For me 0.015" solder wiped through paper and tweezers with the tips
sanded parallel are enough for 0402 chips, 0201s under protest, 0603s
if I have any say in it.
jsw
Wes
>>Is this real? It always seemed like a phony gimmick to sell light bulbs.
>>The incandescent color filtering can't have been high Q enough to affect
>>insects, just a slight effect to impress the rubes. LEDs would be another
>>matter.
>
>The next word in my post after "bug-free yellow" that you excerpted
>was "LED". I'm using an amber 2.5-watt Luxeon LED. It really is
>ignored by bugs. I'm replacing one I made 2 years ago that disappeared
>last summer so I'm not hypothesizing here. It works, at the lake, in
>Minnesota.
>
>In addition to being quite narrow spectrum, it also runs cool and
>emits about no IR.
I *thought* mosquitoes could sense infrared but my quick read of wiki didn't mention it. A
general google search finds a lot of add copy selling things mentioning mosquitoes and IR
but that sure isn't authoritative. ;)
Remember waking up one night on a back packing trip with my dog to the sounds of most of
the Michigan air force (mosquitoes) circling around my little back pack tent. They found
us some how. We were not emitting light.
What type of bugs are you hoping won't be attracted?
Wes
David Billington
mozzies, they bite and are known to home in on CO2 sources, such as
humans and other animals, very effectively. Maybe also how you smell, an
ex girlfriend could be bitten repeatedly in the night and I might get
one bite if I was unfortunate and I was next to her.
cavelamb
They can sense infrared and CO2.
You didn't have a chance.
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> They can sense infrared and CO2.
> You didn't have a chance.
I noticed that they swarmed around a hot dirt bike engine but not the
exhaust or me.
jsw
Don Foreman
>
>What type of bugs are you hoping won't be attracted?
>
>Wes
Skeeters.
Don Foreman
wrote:
How about a skinny pencil? Wood with (conductive) graphite center,
easily pointed or whittled, inexpensive.
Don Foreman
wrote:
>>
>> Try a regular pencil. Nice graphite core, cheap, eraser end can be
>> used on corroded contacts.
>
>Interesting idea. I'm not sure how conductive they are. I think it's
>mostly clay.
They're more than amply conductive for static dissipation. I used to
arc-weld thermocouples using a lab bench supply and a couple of pencil
leads. No goggles or mask, just squint. The OSHA lady would have me
hung by the thumbs today, but this was many years ago.
Don Foreman
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>Today I putzed with making suitable drive electronics for my
>summertime bug-free yellow LED reading light mentioned here before:
>http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellowlight/
>
>Being retired and somewhat incorrigable, today became more of a
>"wonder if I can" rather than goal-directed activity making any
>rational sense. I don't have to make sense. I'm retired!
>
>I have 150 pcs of LM358 opamp in the mini SO-8 package in my goodiebox
>so I wondered if I could solder leads to one.
>
>I did.
>http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/yellow_lite_elex/
>
>The wire is #30AWG wire wrap wire, .010" dia. I gobbed some 5-minute
>epoxy on afterwards to add some robustness.
>
>Guess I'm still ahead of the DT's and Parkinson's. Knock on wood!
>
>The current regulator, comprised of this opamp, three resistors and a
>MOSFET, will be a "bulge in the cord" of a surplus switcher wallwart
>(as suggested by Spehro) that I found at Electronic Goldmine for the
>$2.99 or so that Spehro mentioned. I'll house it in a bit of plastic
>water pipe (ABS?) already turned down to about .034" wall thickness.
>It's about 5/8" ID. I discovered by experiment today that this stuff
>easily handles 80 degC, relevant because the goo I plan to use to pot
>the elex in the tube needs 80C to cure in less than a lifetime. My
>CBCR (cord bulge current regulator) doesn't really need to be potted,
>but I may as well use this really good 3M Scotchcast resin before it
>turns to rock from old age. I'm amazed that it hasn't already done
>so.
>
>Maybe more later on this.
Update: The circuit oscillated. I've built several regulators like
this, none of which oscillated, but this one did even though I could
not get a SPICE sim of that circuit to oscillate. Usual remedies at
the bench didn't work.
I finally decided that perhaps that particular opamp was wonky and it
might be best to start over. Clanged the can with it, built the
circuit again using a different opamp in a SOT23-5 package: TS1871ILT
from ST rather than LM358 also from ST. Easy to stick wires on that
wee speck, or maybe I'm just getting better at it. I only had 50 of
those, now 49 left but hey, it's time to be enjoying my treasure.
This instantiation of the same dirt-simple design worked exactly as
expected, within 1%. I used 5% resistors, but sometimes things turn
out better than expected. It's now in a plastic tube filled with
potting goo and curing in the oven, becoming a weatherproof bulge in
the cord. That cookie will be done about lunchtime tomorrow, ready to
go to the lake in late May or early June.
Michael A. Terrell
They rarely bother me, from the time I switched to artifical
sweetners.
--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
Terry
<gly...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm contemplating a fix for a Toshiba laptop video card that has ball array
>> mounted memory chips that need repair...no replacement cards available.
>> I'll build a dam on each chip and fill it with molten lead from my lead pot.
>> What do I make the dam from? �What temp should the lead be to fix the array
>> yet not fry the chips?
>
>I am not sure of the temp, but in the industry hot air is used to
>apply or reflow those, and a fixture holds the chip up off the circuit
>board so that it's weight does not squish all the solder balls into
>one massive solder short. Duration of heat application is also
>critical, to not get either cold solder or overcooked, this is all
>done with a huge machine with special fixtures for each board and chip
>used, copper chills on the back, computer timed and regulated airflow,
>and to move the chip that last mm into contact at the exact right
>moment. If it was made with lead-free solder, it is even fussier about
>process parameters. I'd suggest finding another video card on eBay
>except I suspect any other card made at about the same time will show
>similar issues. I don't think BGAs (ball grid arrays) have the same
>lifespan as QFPs, etc. Still, I think I'd try a used pull before I
>tried to reflow a BGA without the machine...
> --Glenn Lyford
Then again, some work can be done with a syringe full of soldering
mixture and a toaster oven... and you don't even need to align the
parts all that carefully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5lksMvmqQc
--
Terry