Ping Don Foreman: ICD Alert
Winston
Don Foreman
wrote:
>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>
>--Winston
Man, I'm batting 1000. I have two Toyotas and a Boston Scientific
ICD. <G>
The two toys are among the recalled models, but fortunately my ICD is
a later model not known to have problems.
Winston
Given the choice, I'd have done it that way, too.
:)
--Winston
Wes
The cars can stay in your driveway, call your dealer and demand they pick those up,
install the fix and return them on their dime, glad your ICD is okay.
If you do drive the car to your dealer, small acceleration steps just to be careful and
practice shutting down in a non panic mode.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Larry Jaques
<Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
Good one, Winnie. Give the poor guy a heart attack, whydoncha?
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn
Larry Jaques
<clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, Winston <Win...@bigbrother.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>>>
>>>--Winston
>>
>>Man, I'm batting 1000. I have two Toyotas and a Boston Scientific
>>ICD. <G>
>>
>>The two toys are among the recalled models, but fortunately my ICD is
>>a later model not known to have problems.
>
>The cars can stay in your driveway, call your dealer and demand they pick those up,
>install the fix and return them on their dime, glad your ICD is okay.
>
>If you do drive the car to your dealer, small acceleration steps just to be careful and
>practice shutting down in a non panic mode.
Oh, please, Wes. Most of us here could deal with a WFO throttle
without a problem or crash. Most of the affected vehicles have
4-wheel disc brakes, too. It's simply not a problem in the vast
majority of the recalled vehicles...yet.
Don Foreman
>Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, Winston <Win...@bigbrother.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>>>
>>>--Winston
>>
>>Man, I'm batting 1000. I have two Toyotas and a Boston Scientific
>>ICD. <G>
>>
>>The two toys are among the recalled models, but fortunately my ICD is
>>a later model not known to have problems.
>
>The cars can stay in your driveway, call your dealer and demand they pick those up,
>install the fix and return them on their dime, glad your ICD is okay.
>
>If you do drive the car to your dealer, small acceleration steps just to be careful and
>practice shutting down in a non panic mode.
>
>Wes
I'm not worried about the cars, and I wonder if the last penny has
dropped on the fix. Politicans are now interrogating Toyota execs
about whether it might be EMI affecting electronics. Like they'd know
EMI from EMU, either a University in Eastern Michigan or a flightless
Australian bird. This EE considers the EMI fright as extremely
unlikely but it's an Obama Motors politican's dream because it's about
impossible to prove what didn't cause a rare transient event that
can't be duplicated in the lab.
I regard a software bug as far more plausible and still highly
unlikely.
In any case, we've both been driving cars for more than three weeks.
Mary's Corolla is a stick so all she need do is depress the clutch to
disengage a runaway engine. The Camry has the 6-speed tranny that can
be manually overridden to select a gear manually, it is possible to
shift to neutral, and I've shown mathematically that the brakes are
more than sufficient to stop the car even if the engine is delivering
full rated power which it can only do over a limited range of RPM's.
Turning off the ignition is also possible without locking up the
steering, but one does then lose power steering. I haven't tried
steering the Camry with engine off. I'll try that next time I'm out.
It wasn't a problem in the similarly-sized Ford Contour it replaced.
It is a problem in a Chevy truck. Been there, done that.
If no more developments in the next six weeks, I'll take the cars up
to the dealer one at a time. If I wait until the snow is gone, then I
can do my daily 3 mile walk outdoors while they're working on a car. I
found a route to walk when I go to get oil changes so I get both done
in the same time that day. Part of it is woodsy gravel road, part is
thru a park, some thru a residential neighborhood. Not my favorite,
but not bad at all.
Too_Many_Tools
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:29:34 -0500, the infamous Wes
> <clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, Winston <Wins...@bigbrother.net>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>
> >>>--Winston
>
> >>Man, I'm batting 1000. I have two Toyotas and a Boston Scientific
> >>ICD. <G>
>
> >>The two toys are among the recalled models, but fortunately my ICD is
> >>a later model not known to have problems.
>
> >The cars can stay in your driveway, call your dealer and demand they pick those up,
> >install the fix and return them on their dime, glad your ICD is okay.
>
> >If you do drive the car to your dealer, small acceleration steps just to be careful and
> >practice shutting down in a non panic mode.
>
> Oh, please, Wes. Most of us here could deal with a WFO throttle
> without a problem or crash. Most of the affected vehicles have
> 4-wheel disc brakes, too. It's simply not a problem in the vast
> majority of the recalled vehicles...yet.
>
> --
> "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
> exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
>
> - Show quoted text -
Better think again.
Several reports now indicate that the brakes do not stop the car.
TMT
Winston
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, the infamous Winston
> <Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>
>> http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>
> Good one, Winnie. Give the poor guy a heart attack, whydoncha?
Were our roles reversed, I know that *I* would appreciate a heads-
up on a issue as serious as that one. Don knows I wasn't trying
to be mean. Quite the opposite, indeed.
--Winston
Don Foreman
<lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, the infamous Winston
><Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>
>>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>
>Good one, Winnie. Give the poor guy a heart attack, whydoncha?
Yeah! Have a heart, Winnie! Recall Beryl's observation about
conservatives being more easily startled and armed conservatives
therefore more likely to shoot out the lights and who knows what else
if startled. I'm more of a centrist than a conservative but may still
be easily startled and that could result in either cardiac defib or
trigger finger fibrillation. Wouldn't be my fault, it's a medical
condition of a senior citizen hoooaahhh.
Gently, Winnie, easy does it, like walking on eggshells barely
restraining tripwires to Claymores. Tippytoes. Think Robert Frost. Be
the fog. If you're foggy enough you could be a ... no, I'm not going
there, nevermind.
Winston
(...)
> I'm not worried about the cars, and I wonder if the last penny has
> dropped on the fix.
Almost certainly not.
> Politicans are now interrogating Toyota execs
> about whether it might be EMI affecting electronics. Like they'd know
> EMI from EMU, either a University in Eastern Michigan or a flightless
> Australian bird. This EE considers the EMI fright as extremely
> unlikely but it's an Obama Motors politican's dream because it's about
> impossible to prove what didn't cause a rare transient event that
> can't be duplicated in the lab.
The good news is that we Toyota drivers gather more data with
every trip:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/toyotas-black-box-could-hold-accident-clues/19359588/
> I regard a software bug as far more plausible and still highly
> unlikely.
Sounds quite likely to me.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that a specific combination
of sensor inputs can cause the cruise control circuit to go into
"Delinquent Orca" mode. I often disengage the cruise control when
I'm traveling downhill for an extended stretch. Reason is that my
Camry Cruise Control adds up to 5 MPH to my set speed under those
circumstances. My old Camrys were actually very good about
holding the set speed under all circumstances. Not this one.
--Winston
Winston
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:38:29 -0800, Larry Jaques
> <lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, the infamous Winston
>> <Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>>
>> Good one, Winnie. Give the poor guy a heart attack, whydoncha?
>
> Yeah! Have a heart, Winnie! Recall Beryl's observation about
> conservatives being more easily startled and armed conservatives
> therefore more likely to shoot out the lights and who knows what else
> if startled.
Heh! Didn't remember who you were talking about, until I checked my
Bozo Bin.
> I'm more of a centrist than a conservative but may still
> be easily startled and that could result in either cardiac defib or
> trigger finger fibrillation. Wouldn't be my fault, it's a medical
> condition of a senior citizen hoooaahhh.
Yeah that tracks with your stance on personal responsibility
real well. Pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells. :)
> Gently, Winnie, easy does it, like walking on eggshells barely
> restraining tripwires to Claymores. Tippytoes. Think Robert Frost. Be
> the fog. If you're foggy enough you could be a ... no, I'm not going
> there, nevermind.
Consider It Done!
--Winston
cavelamb
Which brings me to wonder now...
Can you still shoot out the lights with a water gun?
Are these tube lights hot enough to break that way???
Inquiring minds, you know!
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
Pete C.
You do realize that most cruise controls can only accelerate, not brake.
If your vehicle is overspeeding on downhill when cruise control is on,
it is because your transmission is not providing adequate engine
braking, not because of any cruise control fault. Go over the same hill
with no cruise control, cresting the hill at the specified speed and you
will find you gain the same 5 MPH on the downhill side.
Larry Jaques
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:29:34 -0500, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, Winston <Win...@bigbrother.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>>>>
>>>>--Winston
>>>
>>>Man, I'm batting 1000. I have two Toyotas and a Boston Scientific
>>>ICD. <G>
>>>
>>>The two toys are among the recalled models, but fortunately my ICD is
>>>a later model not known to have problems.
>>
>>The cars can stay in your driveway, call your dealer and demand they pick those up,
>>install the fix and return them on their dime, glad your ICD is okay.
>>
>>If you do drive the car to your dealer, small acceleration steps just to be careful and
>>practice shutting down in a non panic mode.
>>
>>Wes
>
>I'm not worried about the cars, and I wonder if the last penny has
>dropped on the fix. Politicans are now interrogating Toyota execs
>about whether it might be EMI affecting electronics. Like they'd know
>EMI from EMU, either a University in Eastern Michigan or a flightless
>Australian bird. This EE considers the EMI fright as extremely
>unlikely but it's an Obama Motors politican's dream because it's about
>impossible to prove what didn't cause a rare transient event that
>can't be duplicated in the lab.
Wouldn't EMI/RFI tend to cause problems with _all_ local vehicles
within its broadcast area? Will O Motors decide to issue EMPs in all
vehicles to counteract the "threat"?
>I regard a software bug as far more plausible and still highly
>unlikely.
>
>In any case, we've both been driving cars for more than three weeks.
>Mary's Corolla is a stick so all she need do is depress the clutch to
>disengage a runaway engine. The Camry has the 6-speed tranny that can
>be manually overridden to select a gear manually, it is possible to
>shift to neutral, and I've shown mathematically that the brakes are
>more than sufficient to stop the car even if the engine is delivering
>full rated power which it can only do over a limited range of RPM's.
>Turning off the ignition is also possible without locking up the
>steering, but one does then lose power steering. I haven't tried
>steering the Camry with engine off. I'll try that next time I'm out.
>It wasn't a problem in the similarly-sized Ford Contour it replaced.
>It is a problem in a Chevy truck. Been there, done that.
It was a problem once with a 425hp V-8 in an AMC Javelin once for me,
but once I got the thing into 4th gear, I could find the ignition key
and stop without hitting anything or blowing the freshly rebuilt
engine. Full mechanical linkage. Once checked and lubed, it never
gave me a problem again, and WFO and I are old friends. ;)
>If no more developments in the next six weeks, I'll take the cars up
>to the dealer one at a time. If I wait until the snow is gone, then I
>can do my daily 3 mile walk outdoors while they're working on a car. I
>found a route to walk when I go to get oil changes so I get both done
>in the same time that day. Part of it is woodsy gravel road, part is
>thru a park, some thru a residential neighborhood. Not my favorite,
>but not bad at all.
Have fun!
Winston
>
> Winston wrote:
(...)
>> Sounds quite likely to me.
>> I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that a specific combination
>> of sensor inputs can cause the cruise control circuit to go into
>> "Delinquent Orca" mode. I often disengage the cruise control when
>> I'm traveling downhill for an extended stretch. Reason is that my
>> Camry Cruise Control adds up to 5 MPH to my set speed under those
>> circumstances. My old Camrys were actually very good about
>> holding the set speed under all circumstances. Not this one.
>
> You do realize that most cruise controls can only accelerate, not brake.
I was under the impression that cruise controls have a somewhat
linear output and can choose to:
* Accelerate fairly briskly, as when traveling uphill with a
'set speed' that exceeds the current speed by a fair margin
* Accelerate moderately, as when maintaining speed on a flat
stretch of road
* Neither accelerate or decelerate, during those times between
moderate accelerations on a flat stretch
* Decelerate moderately, as when returning to the set speed
after having crested a very moderate hill
* Decelerate completely, as when returning to the set speed
after having crested a higher hill or if the set speed is
adjusted downward (or the control is disengaged by tapping
on the brake)
I do realize that cruise controls don't brake.
> If your vehicle is overspeeding on downhill when cruise control is on,
> it is because your transmission is not providing adequate engine
> braking, not because of any cruise control fault. Go over the same hill
> with no cruise control, cresting the hill at the specified speed and you
> will find you gain the same 5 MPH on the downhill side.
Nup. That's why I turn the control off at the crest of the hill.
I have a very moderate rise between me and a little town to the
west. I take this road perhaps 3-5 times a week.
On the moderate decline after the crest, without the cruise control
activated and my foot completely off the pedals, I see that the
speed of my car remains within about 1 MPH from the top to bottom.
It's a curious conjunction of wind resistance, friction, velocity,
mass, local gravitational pull <g> that all conspire to keep the
car going about the same speed, (while providing *great* gas mileage).
However if I engage the cruise control during the climb, I have to
brake about halfway down the hill because the car's current speed
is about 5 MPH faster than the set speed and it is *increasing*.
I've never left the cruise control on for the entire trip.
By contrast, my 2000 Camry and my 1988 Camry cruise controls would
decelerate completely after the crest, maintaining my set speed
*much* more closely. My old Camrys were actually very good about
holding the set speed under all circumstances. Not this '07.
--Winston
Larry Jaques
<Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>On 2/25/2010 9:58 PM, Don Foreman wrote:
>
>(...)
>
>> I'm not worried about the cars, and I wonder if the last penny has
>> dropped on the fix.
>
>Almost certainly not.
>
>> Politicans are now interrogating Toyota execs
>> about whether it might be EMI affecting electronics. Like they'd know
>> EMI from EMU, either a University in Eastern Michigan or a flightless
>> Australian bird. This EE considers the EMI fright as extremely
>> unlikely but it's an Obama Motors politican's dream because it's about
>> impossible to prove what didn't cause a rare transient event that
>> can't be duplicated in the lab.
>
>The good news is that we Toyota drivers gather more data with
>every trip:
>http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/toyotas-black-box-could-hold-accident-clues/19359588/
Mcintire is a bit of a jerk, acting as if Toyota is guilty of
something sinister. My thoughts there are that all the suto mfgrs have
been building black boxes which keep complete databanks for each
vehicle, and that they don't want the public or gov't to know. The
public could consider it an invasion of privacy and the gov't could
use it to retroactively ticket speeders, worst case scenario. I wonder
how much they already play in warranty voids with the mfgrs.
Note to Brian: If you look at the referenced DailyFinance site, all
their pictures are severely blown out except for Pallavi's. Someone
seriously blew it.
>> I regard a software bug as far more plausible and still highly
>> unlikely.
>
>Sounds quite likely to me.
>I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that a specific combination
>of sensor inputs can cause the cruise control circuit to go into
>"Delinquent Orca" mode. I often disengage the cruise control when
>I'm traveling downhill for an extended stretch. Reason is that my
>Camry Cruise Control adds up to 5 MPH to my set speed under those
>circumstances. My old Camrys were actually very good about
>holding the set speed under all circumstances. Not this one.
My '07 Tundra's CC works well in holding downhill speeds, going as far
as downshifting to do so, IIRC. I really like it. It also works as
slow as 20mph for the school zones around town and on rugged dirt
roads, where my foot gets bounced onto the throttle, spinning the
wheels occasionally.
And when I'm home, it puts jam on my toast...well, maybe it doesn't do
quite that much.
Larry Jaques
<Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>On 2/25/2010 7:38 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, the infamous Winston
>> <Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>>
>> Good one, Winnie. Give the poor guy a heart attack, whydoncha?
>
>Were our roles reversed, I know that *I* would appreciate a heads-
>up on a issue as serious as that one. Don knows I wasn't trying
>to be mean. Quite the opposite, indeed.
Oops, my implied smiley didn't show up on your screen.
Larry Jaques
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:38:29 -0800, Larry Jaques
Takin' your nitro with a bit o' grog, are ye, Donny?
Winston
(...)
> Oops, my implied smiley didn't show up on your screen.
"High Inertia Smiley" accepted.
--Winston
Don Foreman
Those without reason rely on rabid reports. The brakes are quite
sufficient to overcome even the V6 engine at WOT and stop the car.
Don Foreman
<lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:19:28 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
><dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
>
>>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:38:29 -0800, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:26 -0800, the infamous Winston
>>><Win...@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>>>
>>>Good one, Winnie. Give the poor guy a heart attack, whydoncha?
>>
>>Yeah! Have a heart, Winnie! Recall Beryl's observation about
>>conservatives being more easily startled and armed conservatives
>>therefore more likely to shoot out the lights and who knows what else
>>if startled. I'm more of a centrist than a conservative but may still
>>be easily startled and that could result in either cardiac defib or
>>trigger finger fibrillation. Wouldn't be my fault, it's a medical
>>condition of a senior citizen hoooaahhh.
>>
>>Gently, Winnie, easy does it, like walking on eggshells barely
>>restraining tripwires to Claymores. Tippytoes. Think Robert Frost. Be
>>the fog. If you're foggy enough you could be a ... no, I'm not going
>>there, nevermind.
>
>Takin' your nitro with a bit o' grog, are ye, Donny?
Beware of gray-haired gents with grog, nitro capsules and a
slingshot...
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Several reports now indicate that the brakes do not stop the car.
A lot more than several reports indicate that Elvis is still alive. If
we're to go by such reports, then they're proof of the mother of all
conspiracies. Will you demand that Congress look into it?
Here's a reasonable article describing the reality of the Toyota
situation.
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/feb2010/bw20100225_403524.htm
Sample incident report: "Several times I have noticed that the
acceleration will drop off the second I take my foot off the pedal.
Please advise ASAP!!!!!!!!!"�NHTSA Toyota Complaint #10302477
Toyota has to humor such reports. The rest of us do not, although
apparently some can't help themselves, and some more seem to live for
such things. Next time you want to know how it's possible for people
to be so damned whiney and helpless, and so prone to believe every
silly thing they hear, take a look in the mirror to see the face of an
enthusiastic offender and enabler. And should you ever wonder why
government costs so much, think of the proportion of it that's
dedicated to dealing with every nitwit who can operate a phone or a
keyboard, which out of necessity have been designed to operate even
while drool-covered.
And here's something else for you to pretend away - every person who
jumps on this latest hysteria bandwagon is advertising their
unfamiliarity with automotive mechanicals, and their inability to
think logically.
Wayne
JR North
later versions.
JR
Dweller in the cellar
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:58:01 -0800, Winston <Win...@bigbrother.net>
wrote:
Don Foreman
wrote:
Halogens, yoo betcha. Tube lights, probably not. LEDs, no way Jose
they'll just appreciate the cooling. LED's aren't mainstream for
general illumination quite yet but I think they will be within a
decade.
Winston
> Yup. older Toyota CC was much more precise and predictable than the
> later versions.
That was the point.
Thanks JR!
--Winston
Don Foreman
<junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Yup. older Toyota CC was much more precise and predictable than the
>later versions.
>JR
>Dweller in the cellar
No issues with the cruise in our 09 Corolla or 10 Camry thus far.
Winston
No real issues with the '07 either.
It just requires more attention on descents to avoid a ticket.
--Winston
Wes
>Those without reason rely on rabid reports. The brakes are quite
>sufficient to overcome even the V6 engine at WOT and stop the car.
I wonder what the increased stopping distance is if the engine is WOT and the car is
already traveling at say, 70 mph? How much heat can you dump into the rotors before
serious brake fade occurs?
Back to the throttle pedal. Would it be reasonable to depress it by hand and let up at
points feeling for a very weak return force indicating a lot of friction?
Wes
Frnak McKenney
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:10:30 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
><too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 25, 9:50�pm, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
[...]
>>> Oh, please, Wes. �Most of us here could deal with a WFO throttle
>>> without a problem or crash. �Most of the affected vehicles have
>>> 4-wheel disc brakes, too. It's simply not a problem in the vast
>>> majority of the recalled vehicles...yet.
>>
>>Better think again.
>>
>>Several reports now indicate that the brakes do not stop the car.
>>
>>TMT
>
> Those without reason rely on rabid reports. The brakes are quite
> sufficient to overcome even the V6 engine at WOT and stop the car.
I caught part of the Congressional Hearing one one of the C-SPANx
channels the other day. The testimony of one of the witnesses, a
woman who described in great detail her experience with a "runaway"
Lexus, left me puzzled.
She clearly stated that she was able to shift into each of the car's
gears and that doing so had no effect on the problem. She also said
that she had been unable to slow the car down using her brakes.
Since she had time to call her husband on her cell phone (presumably
a hands-free setup), whatever she was experiencing evidently lasted
for a while.
Here's my question: With a Lexus transmission, presumably an automatic,
how are you able to shift into Reverse at highway speeds? I'm fairly
certain that if I ever succeeded in doing this in a manual shifter
I'd have left evidence all over the highway in the form of fluid and
little gears.
Is this an "electric" shift of some kind that would have allowed the
driver to request/demand the shift into Reverse but refused to do so?
Similarly, how would one expect a successful shift into First/Low to
affect a "runaway" engine? Wouldn't it at least have slowed down?
Frank McKenney
--
If you are not being criticized, you may not be doing much.
-- Donald Rumsfeld
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut mined spring dawt cahm (y'all)
Larry Jaques
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
>On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:03:01 -0800, Larry Jaques
><lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:19:28 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
>><dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
>>>Gently, Winnie, easy does it, like walking on eggshells barely
>>>restraining tripwires to Claymores. Tippytoes. Think Robert Frost. Be
>>>the fog. If you're foggy enough you could be a ... no, I'm not going
>>>there, nevermind.
>>
>>Takin' your nitro with a bit o' grog, are ye, Donny?
>
>
>Beware of gray-haired gents with grog, nitro capsules and a
>slingshot...
A wrist rocket with steel shot, no doubt. Not a bad choice.
Don Foreman
>Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>Those without reason rely on rabid reports. The brakes are quite
>>sufficient to overcome even the V6 engine at WOT and stop the car.
>
>I wonder what the increased stopping distance is if the engine is WOT and the car is
>already traveling at say, 70 mph? How much heat can you dump into the rotors before
>serious brake fade occurs?
I calculated that in a previous post, not accounting for fade from
heat. I don't know how quickly the brakes would fade from heat.
>
>Back to the throttle pedal. Would it be reasonable to depress it by hand and let up at
>points feeling for a very weak return force indicating a lot of friction?
Seems reasonable, but it would also seem that the onset of this
sticking is fairly sudden or it would have been discovered before out
on the freeway.
Steve W.
Same thing can be down with most current transmissions. Been that way
for at least 9 years on some makes.
>
> Is this an "electric" shift of some kind that would have allowed the
> driver to request/demand the shift into Reverse but refused to do so?
Pretty much all of the electronic controlled transmissions have this
function. The idea behind it is to prevent damage to the engine and
transmission. You can shift into any gear BUT if the ECN decides that
your manual shifting of the quadrant will damage the engine/trans it
will not shift the gears.
>
> Similarly, how would one expect a successful shift into First/Low to
> affect a "runaway" engine? Wouldn't it at least have slowed down?
Not if it was equipped as above. I know that in my wifes 02 Blazer with
the automatic you can be doing 65 mph, Shift down into 3rd (out of OD)
and the engine will pick up 1k revs. If you try to shift down into 2nd
the trans will not shift if you are stepping on the gas OR if the
current speed means that engine damage would result if the trans shifts.
>
>
> Frank McKenney
> --
> If you are not being criticized, you may not be doing much.
> -- Donald Rumsfeld
> --
> Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
> Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
> Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut mined spring dawt cahm (y'all)
--
Steve W.
Don Foreman
wrote:
>http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/February/10-civ-202.html
>
>--Winston
Had my quarterly ICD check yesterday. Those things are amazing. Her
machine spit out dang near a paperback novel worth of printout and
graphs. The nurse told me that I'd had a 30-second period of
arrhythmia at 11:15 on November (some date) but most people have those
occasionally and don't know it. Otherwise, all looked hunky dory.
Projected battery life from this point forward is 8.5 years. If it
reported that I'd had an evil thought on January 10th, she didn't
mention it.
Don Foreman
wrote:
I don't do a lot of descending around here, since the nearest hill is
probably in Duluth.
JR North
automatically :)
JR
Dweller in the cellar
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
Winston
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:42:16 -0800, Winston<Win...@bigbrother.net>
> wrote:
(...)
>> No real issues with the '07 either.
>> It just requires more attention on descents to avoid a ticket.
>>
>> --Winston
>
> I don't do a lot of descending around here, since the nearest hill is
> probably in Duluth.
And if your tailwind is *that* strong, you have more pressing
issues than a possible speeding ticket. :)
--Winston
Michael A. Terrell
Don Foreman wrote:
>
> Beware of gray-haired gents with grog, nitro capsules and a
> slingshot...
Can you shoot one of the capsules hard enough for make it detonate?
:)
--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
Don Foreman
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Don Foreman wrote:
>>
>> Beware of gray-haired gents with grog, nitro capsules and a
>> slingshot...
>
>
> Can you shoot one of the capsules hard enough for make it detonate?
>:)
I wonder that too. If I had any nitro capsules that mystery would
soon be resolved. I have a wrist rocket and I'm not half bad with it.
Frnak McKenney
Steve,
Thanks for responding.
Your first sentence left me a bit puzzled. Does "same thing" refer to a
result leaving "li'l tiny gears all over the highway"?
>> Is this an "electric" shift of some kind that would have allowed the
>> driver to request/demand the shift into Reverse but refused to do so?
>
> Pretty much all of the electronic controlled transmissions have this
> function. The idea behind it is to prevent damage to the engine and
> transmission. You can shift into any gear BUT if the ECN decides that
> your manual shifting of the quadrant will damage the engine/trans it
> will not shift the gears.
Okay. So the shift lever moves, giving the driver -- presumably busy
watching the highway and worrying about traffic and the @&^$* "stuck
accelerator" -- the kinesthetic feedback that he/she/it _has_ shifted
gears, but there is no effect -- the transmission stays in whatever
gear it was previously in?
Okay. That would explain the part of the woman's testimony that was
puzzling me.
I normally drive stick, and when I drive (e.g.) a rental with an
automatic transmission I don't spend a lot of time trying to force it
to shift into 1st or Low at highway speeds. The last time I remember
trying to "force" an automatic (probably by accident), what I recall
is a _mechanical_ "interlock" that simply wouldn't let me pull the
lever back into that gear. Or maybe I just didn't pull that hard; I
tend not to try forcing mechanical things, at least until I've built
up a _lot_ of frustration. <grin!>
>> Similarly, how would one expect a successful shift into First/Low to
>> affect a "runaway" engine? Wouldn't it at least have slowed down?
>
> Not if it was equipped as above. I know that in my wifes 02 Blazer with
> the automatic you can be doing 65 mph, Shift down into 3rd (out of OD)
> and the engine will pick up 1k revs. If you try to shift down into 2nd
> the trans will not shift if you are stepping on the gas OR if the
> current speed means that engine damage would result if the trans shifts.
So _next_ year's model will not only refuse to actually shift into a gear
that might cause engine or transmission damage, it will be required to
recognize a runaway accelerator and slow the car down? <grin!>
And the following year's software patch will override _that_ feature if
the car happens to be stuck on a railroad track and the driver is busy
trying to get off the tracks with his wheels spinning...
Anyway, thank you for the explanation. I may have to keep my current
car for a couple' more decades just to retain my sanity. <grin!>
Frank
--
Youth is much more capable of amusing itself than is now
supposed, and in much less mortal need of being amused. The
only real warning against solitude and stagnation which needs
to be uttered is that you really need to be rather young and
strong in order to get the fun out of them.
-- G.K. Chesterton: On the Thrills of Boredom (1932)
Larry Jaques
<clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>Those without reason rely on rabid reports. The brakes are quite
>>sufficient to overcome even the V6 engine at WOT and stop the car.
>
>I wonder what the increased stopping distance is if the engine is WOT and the car is
>already traveling at say, 70 mph? How much heat can you dump into the rotors before
>serious brake fade occurs?
First stop like that? Probably 30% more, once you get over the shock
of WFO continuing after the foot is on the OTHER pedal. (Don uses the
tamer term for WFO ;)
>Back to the throttle pedal. Would it be reasonable to depress it by hand and let up at
>points feeling for a very weak return force indicating a lot of friction?
Our feet are more in tune with any possible glitches and changes in
throttle pressure, or variations thereof. The foot/mind/habit
connection is strong and we notice a change right away. Well, those of
us who are awake and aware enough to notice, anyway. (That includes
most folks here. Dunno 'bout the libs. <gd&r>)
--
Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both.
--Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Larry Jaques
<fr...@far.from.the.madding.crowd.com> scrawled the following:
>On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:25:47 -0600, Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:10:30 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
>><too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Feb 25, 9:50�pm, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>> Oh, please, Wes. �Most of us here could deal with a WFO throttle
>>>> without a problem or crash. �Most of the affected vehicles have
>>>> 4-wheel disc brakes, too. It's simply not a problem in the vast
>>>> majority of the recalled vehicles...yet.
>>>
>>>Better think again.
>>>
>>>Several reports now indicate that the brakes do not stop the car.
>>>
>>>TMT
>>
>> Those without reason rely on rabid reports. The brakes are quite
>> sufficient to overcome even the V6 engine at WOT and stop the car.
>
>I caught part of the Congressional Hearing one one of the C-SPANx
>channels the other day. The testimony of one of the witnesses, a
>woman who described in great detail her experience with a "runaway"
>Lexus, left me puzzled.
>
>She clearly stated that she was able to shift into each of the car's
>gears
Without overrevving the engine? What, was the throttle stuck at a
scary 05% open? CONgress would call that a runaway condition, I'm
sure.
>and that doing so had no effect on the problem. She also said
>that she had been unable to slow the car down using her brakes.
>
>Since she had time to call her husband on her cell phone (presumably
>a hands-free setup), whatever she was experiencing evidently lasted
>for a while.
That blows the hell out of the "runaway" concept, doesn't it?
>Here's my question: With a Lexus transmission, presumably an automatic,
>how are you able to shift into Reverse at highway speeds? I'm fairly
>certain that if I ever succeeded in doing this in a manual shifter
>I'd have left evidence all over the highway in the form of fluid and
>little gears.
I was stunned one day when I had reached down to feel the floor outlet
to see if the heater vent was working in my '90 F-150. I was doing
about 30mph after leaving my driveway and as my hand came back up to
the steering wheel, it hit the shifter and knocked it into reverse. In
about 2 seconds, I sat on the road in complete silence in a non-moving
truck. It had actually gone into reverse and stalled the engine,
stopping the truck. That blew me away. I had no idea that an auto
trans would allow that today, with all the other nanny crap we're
"protected" by.
I got really lucky that day and the tranny was still in one piece
after my stupid little episode.
I'll have to ask Toyota if that could happen in the Tundra, though I
doubt I'll ever accidentally hit the shifter again.
>Is this an "electric" shift of some kind that would have allowed the
>driver to request/demand the shift into Reverse but refused to do so?
>
>Similarly, how would one expect a successful shift into First/Low to
>affect a "runaway" engine? Wouldn't it at least have slowed down?
And why don't people run the logic of the situation and remember that
the key which starts the engine can also turn it off, IMMEDIATELY?
(Prius not included)
Michael A. Terrell
I wonder if you could shoot one in a paintball gun? :)
Wes
>I was stunned one day when I had reached down to feel the floor outlet
>to see if the heater vent was working in my '90 F-150. I was doing
>about 30mph after leaving my driveway and as my hand came back up to
>the steering wheel, it hit the shifter and knocked it into reverse. In
>about 2 seconds, I sat on the road in complete silence in a non-moving
>truck. It had actually gone into reverse and stalled the engine,
>stopping the truck. That blew me away. I had no idea that an auto
>trans would allow that today, with all the other nanny crap we're
>"protected" by.
>
My 2001 Saturn will not go into an opposite gear until it feels like it. Also, in
reverse, the engine is governed low. That refusal to change direction sucks if you just
spun out on an icy road and need to go the other way to get out of on coming traffic.
Sitting there forcing your self to just let it idle for a moment is hard to do.
Wes
Gunner Asch
Really?
One would assume that a California Hiway Patrol officer would know how
to apply brakes...right?
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.