Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
Don Foreman
semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
The 1911 .45 was the standard U.S. military sidearm for most of a
century until the mid-80's when it was supplanted by the Beretta M9
9mm, partly because 9mm was/is a standard NATO munition, partly
because the M9's were cheaper to manufacture and partly because it
reduced training costs since learning to shoot a 1911 well takes
longer than learning to shoot a 9mm. The M9 is an accurate pistol,
quite easy to shoot well, but spec ops who can have whatever sidearm
they want sometimes opt for a 1911 because a .45 hits harder.
The 1911 is a classic, still very much in demand today. There are
dozens of companies currently making 1911's including majors like
Springfield, Kimber, Para and Taurus and more elites like Wilson
Combat etc. One can buy a new one for as little as $500, or a
hand-made custom for well north of $3K and the makers of those are
backlogged for over a year. Essentially same design, finely crafted.
How many designs more complex than a paper clip are still so viable a
century after conception? The zipper might be one, but I think the
list of other candidates is quite short.
The M2 50-caliber machine gun that JMB designed is still in active
service with U.S. forces. The man was a genius designer.
Attitudes toward firearms vary and I respect that, but I submit that a
designer of this rare level of accomplishment is worthy of note by
readers of a metalworking newsgroup.
Karl Townsend
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:127rq55sotskkdbqr...@4ax.com...
> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
There's a one hour biography show on JMB I've seen on the History or
Military Channel. I would guess there would be a replay on Monday. The man
was an incredible genious. How he could conceive such complex and reliable
mechanisims is beyond me.
And, he didn't have AutoCAD or Alibre to do his designs <VBG>
Karl
Ignoramus11443
it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
i
Larry Jaques
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
Thanks, Don. Happy Anniversary, John; I salute you.
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
Ed Huntress
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:127rq55sotskkdbqr...@4ax.com...
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
>
> The 1911 .45 was the standard U.S. military sidearm for most of a
> century until the mid-80's when it was supplanted by the Beretta M9
> 9mm, partly because 9mm was/is a standard NATO munition, partly
> because the M9's were cheaper to manufacture and partly because it
> reduced training costs since learning to shoot a 1911 well takes
> longer than learning to shoot a 9mm. The M9 is an accurate pistol,
> quite easy to shoot well, but spec ops who can have whatever sidearm
> they want sometimes opt for a 1911 because a .45 hits harder.
>
> The 1911 is a classic, still very much in demand today. There are
> dozens of companies currently making 1911's including majors like
> Springfield, Kimber, Para and Taurus and more elites like Wilson
> Combat etc. One can buy a new one for as little as $500, or a
> hand-made custom for well north of $3K and the makers of those are
> backlogged for over a year. Essentially same design, finely crafted.
>
> How many designs more complex than a paper clip are still so viable a
> century after conception? The zipper might be one, but I think the
> list of other candidates is quite short.
>
> The M2 50-caliber machine gun that JMB designed is still in active
> service with U.S. forces. The man was a genius designer.
And at the other end of the scale, just to show his versatility, he designed
the falling-block Winchester Hi-Wall single-shot.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus11443" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote in message
news:vMCdnWWkoaaMhzPW...@giganews.com...
> That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
> it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
>
> i
The recoil is completely undramatic. With service loads, it's a little
slower to get back on target than a full-size nine, but it doesn't feel
heavy to me. I'm been shooting them for just under 40 years and they remain
my favorite target pistol.
--
Ed Huntress
Pete C.
I prefer 9mm personally, mostly for the high capacity. I have shot
friend's .45s many times during the same shooting sessions as my 9mms
and really didn't notice much difference in recoil. Given my tendency
for carpal tunnel issues I would think I'd notice. I do notice a
difference in recoil between my two S&W 9mms, one being metal frame and
one being plastic frame with about 12oz weight difference and otherwise
with the same barrel length and shooting the same ammunition. The
lighter plastic frame 9mm has more pronounced recoil as you would expect
with the lower weight / mass.
Don Foreman
Most people don't seem to find the recoil of a 1911 to be an issue.
There is recoil, but it's "mellow" rather than "sharp" like a .40S&W
or 10mm and there's 40 oz of mass there to help soak it up. You
would notice more recoil than with your Beretta but I don't think it'd
bother you.
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> And at the other end of the scale, just to show his versatility, he designed
> the falling-block Winchester Hi-Wall single-shot.
Then he went on the year of Mormon proselytizing. He and a companion
walked into a backwoods Georgia gun store, sweaty, smelly and dusty
from the road, saw a production one for the first time, got all
excited and exclaimed something like "Hey, that's my design. I made
that gun!".
The owner threw them both out.
After that year he didn't have much more to do with the Church.
jsw
Ed Huntress
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:45:37 -0500, Ignoramus11443
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote:
>
>>That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
>>it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
>>
>>i
>
> Most people don't seem to find the recoil of a 1911 to be an issue.
> There is recoil, but it's "mellow" rather than "sharp" like a .40S&W
> or 10mm and there's 40 oz of mass there to help soak it up.
Good description. "Mellow" is the right word.
> You
> would notice more recoil than with your Beretta but I don't think it'd
> bother you.
--
Ed Huntress
RAMł
> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
>
<Excellent write-up snipped for brevity only.>
You forgot to mention that the M1911 is, still, the *only* firearm shown to
pass the tests that resulted in its adoption.
While many have complained about the "looseness" of the fit of its parts,
the M1911 remains the only handgun that will function in spite of mud, sand,
etc., under the most extreme conditions.
In "the moment of truth" the M1911 *will* function properly. <GRIN>
BTW, an M1911A1 fits each of my hands perfectly...
Ignoramus11443
OK, that's good to know. I am not really into handguns that much,
though I can shoot decently. I like rifles much better, tinkering with
scopes and such. My next project is making a bayonet attachment for my
Finnish Mosin Nagant.
i
Ed Huntress
"Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d66b49d-171e-4712...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
Interesting story.
--
Ed Huntress
Buerste
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
JB had a gift! I have a few of his designs and I appreciate them. I have a
P08 that is truely a work of art but hasn't the practicality, durability or
ease of mfg. of the 1911. The bad side is that many of my handguns,
especially the P08 are now too valuable as "collector" pieces that I'm
afraid to use them. The last appraisal I had on the P08 was over $4k, I
wish I had one to shoot!
cavelamb
Wes
>And at the other end of the scale, just to show his versatility, he designed
>the falling-block Winchester Hi-Wall single-shot.
Anelegant firearm. I really like shooting my uncles Browning Highwall.
Wes
Wes
Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was designed for close
in use. Longer distances, use a rife.
Wes
Yooper
My next project is making a bayonet attachment for my Finnish
> Mosin Nagant.
>
I have four of these, two carbines (M-38 and M44) and two rifles-
91-30's. I haven't acquired a Finn capture yet, still looking. Great
guns, a lot of history behind them. Mine are all Ukraine refurbs.
Ed Huntress
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:covrn.260930$vr1....@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
An accurized 1911 will shoot 2" groups at 50 yards. Mine would when I
inherited it (it's a 1941 M70 Colt-manufactured military model, never shot
before it was sold through the NRA, which my uncle had accurized around
1965). But it's gotten a little looser over the years.
I considered hunting javelina with it, but my SSM Ruger will shoot groups
about half that size (the gun can, but I can't. <g>).
--
Ed Huntress
Ignoramus11443
Mine is a Finnish M39. Bayonets are nonexistent. I wanted to make a
bayonet adapter that can be mounted to the rifle.
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus11443" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote in message
Unless you're planning to hunt teabaggers, Iggy, you'll need to run like
hell to do any practical hunting with that bayonet. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
pyotr filipivich
on or about Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:10:22 -0500 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That's what my brother whined about, as one of the signs of
advancing old age: the 45 was heavy, and he was considering going to a
9mm... or spend more time working out.
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Stormin Mormon
bring a friend with a digicam to catch the facial
expressions.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4bae8b0b$0$5000$607e...@cv.net...
Ed Huntress
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>> Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was
>>> designed for close
>>> in use. Longer distances, use a rife.
>>>
>>> Wes
>>
>>An accurized 1911 will shoot 2" groups at 50 yards. Mine would when I
>>inherited it (it's a 1941 M70 Colt-manufactured military model, never shot
>>before it was sold through the NRA, which my uncle had accurized around
>>1965). But it's gotten a little looser over the years.
>
> slide and such,
> I doubt it would pass military acceptance tests.
Sure. I don't know how they do it now, but the rails of mine were peened; it
had a bullseye trigger job; and so on. This wears out eventually and they
get loose again. I've put a lot of rounds through mine.
>
>>
>>I considered hunting javelina with it, but my SSM Ruger will shoot groups
>>about half that size (the gun can, but I can't. <g>).
>
> If I want an accurate handgun I pick my revolvers or my T/C Contender
> depending on use.
One of the gun magazines reported at the time that the SSM was the most
accurate revolver, out-of-the-box, that they had ever tested. It can shoot a
lot straighter than I can.
--
Ed Huntress
RAMł
Absolutely, although I've never had any problem keeping the holes within the
center section of a silhouette (sp?) or a "Q" target at 75 yards.
With a GI .45 I'm more interested in the first 20-30 feet rather than yards.
<grin>
Ed Huntress
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hom9dm$pl2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> If you can catch teabaggers in the act, you should also
> bring a friend with a digicam to catch the facial
> expressions.
Here's one typical teabagger, one of the more mature among them. Look at
that smug little mug, will ya':
"Vulgar Fat Child Attends Teabagging Rally"
http://wonkette.com/407874/vulgar-fat-child-attends-teabagging-rally
--
Ed Huntress
Pete C.
pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> Let the Record show that Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net>
> on or about Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:10:22 -0500 did write/type or cause to
> appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
> >On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:45:37 -0500, Ignoramus11443
> ><ignoram...@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
> >>it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
> >>
> >>i
> >
> >Most people don't seem to find the recoil of a 1911 to be an issue.
> >There is recoil, but it's "mellow" rather than "sharp" like a .40S&W
> >or 10mm and there's 40 oz of mass there to help soak it up. You
> >would notice more recoil than with your Beretta but I don't think it'd
> >bother you.
>
> That's what my brother whined about, as one of the signs of
> advancing old age: the 45 was heavy, and he was considering going to a
> 9mm... or spend more time working out.
My S&W 5906 9mm is 43oz loaded with the stock high cap mag, slightly
more with the higher cap. If you want lighter you go plastic frame
regardless of your caliber of choice. My S&W Sigma 9mm is about 12oz
lighter and otherwise the same specs.
Larry Jaques
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> scrawled the following:
There's a nice one (probably wire-wheeled) on eBay for only $329 right
now, Ig. <thud> Another for $269 + $30 s/h. <thud2>
John
With hardball ammunition?
John B.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
High capacity? How many people do you figure are going to be attacking
you at one time? If its more than 3..doncha think a rifle would be a
better tool?
Gunner, Bishop of the 1911
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Gunner Asch
Why not put an ad in one of Helsinkis online want ads and see if you can
scarf up some actual bayonets?
I could use 7 if you find em for Finns
Gunner
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Shrug..I shoot a lot of Plus + 45 ammo out of a Series 70 and an AMT
DAO.
Been doing it for at least 38 yrs. Doesnt kick at all..and the DAO is
what...13 oz? 22 oz?
No big deal
Gunner Asch
>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>> Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was
>>> designed for close
>>> in use. Longer distances, use a rife.
>>>
>>> Wes
>>
>>An accurized 1911 will shoot 2" groups at 50 yards. Mine would when I
>>inherited it (it's a 1941 M70 Colt-manufactured military model, never shot
>>before it was sold through the NRA, which my uncle had accurized around
>>1965). But it's gotten a little looser over the years.
>
>As soon as you accurize them, like peen the frame rails to tighten up the slide and such,
>I doubt it would pass military acceptance tests.
Wellllll...there are ways to make em shoot pretty damned good and still
be suitable for street duty. And pass MIL tests.
>
>>
>>I considered hunting javelina with it, but my SSM Ruger will shoot groups
>>about half that size (the gun can, but I can't. <g>).
>
>If I want an accurate handgun I pick my revolvers or my T/C Contender depending on use.
>
>Wes
Depends on the range and the targets. I shoot a lot of .41 Mag out in
the field, and 357 for bunnies and coyotes and such, very accurate a
long way out. Past 100 yrds..I dig out the Contenders
Robert Swinney
"Neither did NASA when we went to the moon."
Just goes to show there's a lot of truth in the old saw, "Technology without mathematics would only
be two weeks behind"
Bob Swinney
Eregon
news:bj5uq5lue3mj8b8gb...@4ax.com:
>
>
> High capacity? How many people do you figure are going to be attacking
> you at one time? If its more than 3..doncha think a rifle would be a
> better tool?
>
Personally, I prefer a shotgun with 00 buck for the shorter ranges if
there's to be a crowd. <grin>
The old Ithaca 37 definitely has its advantages, especially with the
extended mag tube...
Ed Huntress
"John" <johnbs...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:tq3uq5tltc1fuciq7...@4ax.com...
I shoot my .45 with hardball, and with semi-wadcutters and light loads. I
don't feel anything qualitatively different with the hardball.
I always thought it was me. I'm fairly light; I may just roll with it better
than some. My 3-1/2" magnum shotgun leaves me black and blue, and hurting,
but I can shoot a .44 magnum handgun with full loads and not suffer from it
a bit. It's kind of odd.
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner Asch
<VBG>...oh indeed...yes indeed!!
Gunner
Wes
>> And, he didn't have AutoCAD or Alibre to do his designs <VBG>
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Neither did NASA when we went to the moon.
>
I wonder how much sooner we would have got there if the engineers had a scientific
calculator instead of those books of logarithms?
Wes
Wes
>> High capacity? How many people do you figure are going to be attacking
>> you at one time? If its more than 3..doncha think a rifle would be a
>> better tool?
>>
>
>Personally, I prefer a shotgun with 00 buck for the shorter ranges if
>there's to be a crowd. <grin>
>
>The old Ithaca 37 definitely has its advantages, especially with the
>extended mag tube...
Yah, but it is hard to carry a shotgun in your pants pocket. If I had time to plan, I'd
plan to avoid the situation.
Wes
Wes
>> If I want an accurate handgun I pick my revolvers or my T/C Contender
>> depending on use.
>
>One of the gun magazines reported at the time that the SSM was the most
>accurate revolver, out-of-the-box, that they had ever tested. It can shoot a
>lot straighter than I can.
I don't doubt it is very accurate. A solid chunk of metal that keeps your hand steady and
a round with enough power for many things that isn't a burden to cope with.
Every shooter should have a few reference guns. If you can't shoot well with an
intrinsicly accurate rifle or pistol, then the firearm you are playing with may not be at
fault if you get lousy results.
If I'm playing with a hard recoiling firearm, I like to check myself out shooting an
accurate .22 pistol or rifle depending on what I'm playing with. If I can't shoot the ez
gun well, I have no business wasting time and money on the hard gun.
Wes
cavelamb
You mean like - now???
I'm almost ready to believe that it was a one-time thing.
Will we EVER go back?
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
Wes
>You mean like - now???
>
>I'm almost ready to believe that it was a one-time thing.
>
>Will we EVER go back?
I hope we don't abandon space. I must have Shatner in my head but it is the 'Final
Frontier' and most of us in the US are decended from explorers. It is in our genetics.
Wes
Bill McKee
"Eregon" <Era...@Saphira.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9D497F69...@74.209.131.10...
Even the California Highway patrol got smart and got away from 00 buck. Is
actually a bad load for the shell. Go with #1 and get a lot more balls in
the case. The 0.30 pack much better than 0.33 balls. And the energy
difference is negligible.
Bill McKee
Ithaca made a double barrel that was concealable. 1920's mostly for the mob
I think. Was the Auto and Burglar gun. 20ga 10" barrels 14.5" overall.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/ithaca-auto-burglar-20-ga-double-barrel-sho-1-c-06a8997bff
Pete C.
Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:25:44 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Ignoramus11443 wrote:
> >>
> >> That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
> >> it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
> >>
> >> i
> >
> >I prefer 9mm personally, mostly for the high capacity. I have shot
> >friend's .45s many times during the same shooting sessions as my 9mms
> >and really didn't notice much difference in recoil. Given my tendency
> >for carpal tunnel issues I would think I'd notice. I do notice a
> >difference in recoil between my two S&W 9mms, one being metal frame and
> >one being plastic frame with about 12oz weight difference and otherwise
> >with the same barrel length and shooting the same ammunition. The
> >lighter plastic frame 9mm has more pronounced recoil as you would expect
> >with the lower weight / mass.
>
> High capacity? How many people do you figure are going to be attacking
> you at one time? If its more than 3..doncha think a rifle would be a
> better tool?
Zero would be my preference. I just don't want to have any real
possibility of going empty in any reasonably probable scenario.
Robert Swinney
"Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was designed for close
in use. Longer distances, use a rife."
Good point, Wes. But an accurized 1911 or one of the new clones will "shoot" with a lot more
accuactely than the average person can hold it.
Bob Swinney
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message news:covrn.260930$vr1....@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
"RAM³" <S31924...@netscape.net> wrote:
>"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
>news:127rq55sotskkdbqr...@4ax.com...
>> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
>> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
>>
>
><Excellent write-up snipped for brevity only.>
>
>You forgot to mention that the M1911 is, still, the *only* firearm shown to
>pass the tests that resulted in its adoption.
>
>While many have complained about the "looseness" of the fit of its parts,
>the M1911 re'mains the only handgun that will function in spite of mud, sand,
>etc., under the most extreme conditions.
>
>In "the moment of truth" the M1911 *will* function properly. <GRIN>
>
>BTW, an M1911A1 fits each of my hands perfectly...
>
Wes
Robert Swinney
Clue us in. I'm not familiar with the name "PO8".
Bob Swinney
"Buerste" <bue...@buerste.com> wrote in message news:holm0b$g5e$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:127rq55sotskkdbqr...@4ax.com...
> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
<snip>
JB had a gift! I have a few of his designs and I appreciate them. I have a
P08 that is truely a work of art but hasn't the practicality, durability or
ease of mfg. of the 1911. The bad side is that many of my handguns,
especially the P08 are now too valuable as "collector" pieces that I'm
afraid to use them. The last appraisal I had on the P08 was over $4k, I
wish I had one to shoot!
Wes
>Wes sez
>"Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was designed for close
>in use. Longer distances, use a rife."
>
>Good point, Wes. But an accurized 1911 or one of the new clones will "shoot" with a lot more
>accuactely than the average person can hold it.
But you just can't drop it in the mud no more. ;)
Wes
cavelamb
No, Wes, it's in our past.
(and there's more where that came from)
Martin H. Eastburn
Slide rule was the fast track but reams of numbers can be generated
overnight to be used the next day.
Martin - knows something of the Sky Lab Nav-Comm bay... :-)
RAMł
news:HNKdne5Yf-ThezLW...@giganews.com:
> Good point, Wes. But an accurized 1911 or one of the new clones will
> "shoot" with a lot more accuactely than the average person can hold
> it.
The same is true with an "issue" M1911A1.
The "catch" is that a competition-quality piece won't function well when
half full of dust, mud, and/or crud while a true combat weapon will. <Grin>
This is true of any repeating weapon regardless of action type. [Even the
"centrifugal" types sometimes discussed on this NG. <Grin>]
RAM�
> Clue us in. I'm not familiar with the name "PO8".
AKA "Luger" in honor of Georg Luger who designed the piece.
Mr. Luger borrowed heavily from the Borchardt design.
John B. Slocomb
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>"John" <johnbs...@invalid.com> wrote in message
>news:tq3uq5tltc1fuciq7...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:19:06 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>> <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Ignoramus11443" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:vMCdnWWkoaaMhzPW...@giganews.com...
>>>> That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
>>>> it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
>>>>
>>>> i
>>>
>>>The recoil is completely undramatic. With service loads, it's a little
>>>slower to get back on target than a full-size nine, but it doesn't feel
>>>heavy to me. I'm been shooting them for just under 40 years and they
>>>remain
>>>my favorite target pistol.
>>
>>
>> With hardball ammunition?
>>
>> John B.
>
>I shoot my .45 with hardball, and with semi-wadcutters and light loads. I
>don't feel anything qualitatively different with the hardball.
>
>I always thought it was me. I'm fairly light; I may just roll with it better
>than some. My 3-1/2" magnum shotgun leaves me black and blue, and hurting,
>but I can shoot a .44 magnum handgun with full loads and not suffer from it
>a bit. It's kind of odd.
I assume that you are changing the recoil spring when you change
ammunition :-)
But more seriously, when I was shooting in matches I don't remember
that I was ever conscious of the gun "kicking". What was noticeable
when going from say, my center-fire gun to the .45, or from a .45
match to a national trophy (hard-ball) match was the amount of time it
took to get back on target.
Apparently that wasn't just my perception as in general discussion
with other teams the usual excuse as to why someone didn't "leg" that
day was that the hard-ball took too much time to get back on target.
However, a member of the team brought his brand new S&W 44 magnum out
the range one day to show the boys. "Want to shoot it?" he says, and I
thought I did. He graciously loaded the gun and handed it to me. The
first shot seemed to have no more recoil then .45 wad-cutter loads.
Ha! Thinks I, all the B.S. about the .44 mag must be just new
shooters. The I fired the next chamber, Who! Ha! The damned gun jumped
so far I though it was going over my shoulder.
Of course, what he had done was load a light .44 special load in the
first chamber and an Elmer Keith load in the second. But he did
convince me that the .44 magnum was powerful gun :-)
John B. Slocomb
Don Foreman
That capability was available if needed. There were Frieden
calculators, Kurta calculators, and FORTRAN became commercially
available in 1957.
Don Foreman
wrote:
Very accurate and pleasant to shoot, but somewhat prone to
malfunction. I don't own one. I don't own anything too precious to
shoot.
cavelamb
I beg to argue, Don.
Even through the late 1960s, the term "computer" referred to a
woman who operated an "adding machine". Even at NASA.
And - even I had a handy dandy slide rule. Mine is a Decilon
8 inch. I still have it and can still do (simple!) manipulations
on it.
But FORTRAN, while in the universities before late 60s, was not
widely used until much later. NASA was mainly doing "machine"
(not even Assembly!).
Heck, I know a guy who almost invented time sharing Visicalc -
but his boss though real computer time was to valuable for any
such silliness!
At least that's the way I remember it...
Gunner Asch
My house guns carry #4 buck. Its .24 caliber and there are approx 27
shot in a standard 2 3/4" round (12ga)
Its effective out to 50 yrds+ and isnt a big overpenetrator like 00 or
000 buck.
Works good.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Average number of rounds fired in a self defense shooting
situation...2.5 <G>
Average range, 7 yrds
I think you are going to be pretty safe with a 8 rd weapon that can
actually stop someone with the first round. That unfortunately cant be
said of the 9mm
Gunner Asch
Sure you can. There is a vast difference between Full Accurized Gold
Cup Target Weapon and "issued 500 times armory brick"
The "half accurized" weapons are very suitable for on the street, drop
in da mod and so forth.
Full accurized...those are target guns and are finicky little bastards
Karl Townsend
> And - even I had a handy dandy slide rule. Mine is a Decilon
> 8 inch. I still have it and can still do (simple!) manipulations
> on it.
>
> But FORTRAN, while in the universities before late 60s, was not
> widely used until much later. NASA was mainly doing "machine"
> (not even Assembly!).
>
> Heck, I know a guy who almost invented time sharing Visicalc -
> but his boss though real computer time was to valuable for any
> such silliness!
>
>
> At least that's the way I remember it...
I was really in to computers back then. After getting extremely good with
fortran, I moved on to a new subject area at that time, industrial
simulation with a program called GPSS. Just a bunch of fortran programs
really. Anyway, I had this huge model of an auto assembly line and got
computer time at 0300 to myself. On the way there, I dropped my monster box
of keypunch cards in the wind and mud and lost them all. Took days to
repunch all those cards. Shortly after, I decided "to heck with this
graduate degree B.S." and got a real job.
Karl
axolotl
Much of the design was done with the aid of real computers- analog. The
moon landing simulator was 3 EAI 7800 consoles.
Kevin Gallimore
Ed Huntress
"John B. Slocomb" <johnbs...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:k170r5517n5vt4qb8...@4ax.com...
I have multiple springs for my .45; an Ace .22 conversion; a CO2 pellet
conversion for shooting in the basement; and a .38 Super barrel from my
short stint at shooting plates.
>
> But more seriously, when I was shooting in matches I don't remember
> that I was ever conscious of the gun "kicking". What was noticeable
> when going from say, my center-fire gun to the .45, or from a .45
> match to a national trophy (hard-ball) match was the amount of time it
> took to get back on target.
Yeah, that's about the way I've experienced it, too.
>
> Apparently that wasn't just my perception as in general discussion
> with other teams the usual excuse as to why someone didn't "leg" that
> day was that the hard-ball took too much time to get back on target.
>
> However, a member of the team brought his brand new S&W 44 magnum out
> the range one day to show the boys. "Want to shoot it?" he says, and I
> thought I did. He graciously loaded the gun and handed it to me. The
> first shot seemed to have no more recoil then .45 wad-cutter loads.
> Ha! Thinks I, all the B.S. about the .44 mag must be just new
> shooters. The I fired the next chamber, Who! Ha! The damned gun jumped
> so far I though it was going over my shoulder.
>
> Of course, what he had done was load a light .44 special load in the
> first chamber and an Elmer Keith load in the second. But he did
> convince me that the .44 magnum was powerful gun :-)
>
> John B. Slocomb
Fortunately for me, my first try with a .44 Mag was with a Desert Eagle.
That monster really tames the recoil. Then I shot a S&W with .44 Mag hunting
loads, and it was a different world. But it still wasn't painful or
unmanageable. You just need a much looser idea of what it means to "manage."
d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Larry Jaques
<gunne...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
And how long does it usually take to get that 2nd or 3rd round off?
Chances are good that the first would stop most people or convince
them to turn around. Those that wouldn't be stopped might not be
stopped by the 1st .45 round, either, but why chance it? ;)
Do you have a better stat list than this one? The 63-91% stopping
power variance on the 9mm seems awfully wide. I tend to think of stats
being a somewhat fixed number, don't you?
http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm
--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren
Stormin Mormon
clothes. They mighta been homosexual men, but I didn't see
any teabagging. Anyone teabagging with that under age boy
would have been committing a crime in most parts of the USA.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4baeb17b$0$5012$607e...@cv.net...
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hom9dm$pl2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> If you can catch teabaggers in the act, you should also
> bring a friend with a digicam to catch the facial
> expressions.
Here's one typical teabagger, one of the more mature among
them. Look at
that smug little mug, will ya':
"Vulgar Fat Child Attends Teabagging Rally"
http://wonkette.com/407874/vulgar-fat-child-attends-teabagging-rally
--
Ed Huntress
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:yVRrn.122823$Up1....@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
RAM�
news:EL-dnTbhR-uE2S3W...@earthlink.com:
Your memory is faulty. <grin>
In '64 the tiny college in Kingsville, TX, was using an IBM 1620 (with an
"astounding" 40K BITS of magnetic core storage) to not only keep the
student records and the financial records of the institution but was
providing the Celenese plant at Bishop, TX, with accounting services.
This was in addition to teaching students to program the machine in
machine code, assembly language, Fortran, Fortran With Format, Fortran
II, and FORGO (a compile-and-go variant of Fortran).
The "Business Schools" of the '66-'70 period often offered Fortran IV and
COBOL programming "degrees" to their "students". Cobol, BTW, had already
become the standard for business applications.
I signed on with the City of Houston as a beginning programmer in early
'68 and envied the salaries of those at NASA in Clear Lake. (After all,
50% differential is significant.) While there was some assembler work
being done (at both sites) the bulk of the activity was in COBOL with
some FORTRAN activity remaining. (Most of the really cute code was
already in production by then.)
Pete C.
I think the idea that a .45 is an elephant gun that will stop a subject
with one shot and a 9mm is a pea shooter that couldn't stop a subject
with a whole box of ammo is a bunch of nonsense just like Ford vs. Chevy
vs. Dodge.
Robert Swinney
Bob Swinney
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bnu0r597lgl7kr8o7...@4ax.com...
Jim Stewart
> That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
> it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
It's a big gentle pussycat with rubber grips.
Jon Anderson
> Most people don't seem to find the recoil of a 1911 to be an issue.
> There is recoil, but it's "mellow" rather than "sharp" like a .40S&W
> or 10mm
Before I sold it, I took my 16 year old daughter out to a nearby range
and let her shoot my Combat Commander. I gave her a brief talk on how to
hold it, and she had zero trouble. I shot video from the side, the
recoil is apparent, but she had no trouble coming right back down on
target. It was btw, the first handgun she ever fired.
Jon
Gunner Asch
<lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>Zero would be my preference. I just don't want to have any real
>>>possibility of going empty in any reasonably probable scenario.
>>
>>Average number of rounds fired in a self defense shooting
>>situation...2.5 <G>
>>
>>Average range, 7 yrds
>>
>>I think you are going to be pretty safe with a 8 rd weapon that can
>>actually stop someone with the first round. That unfortunately cant be
>>said of the 9mm
>
>And how long does it usually take to get that 2nd or 3rd round off?
.2 seconds for the average shooter.
I can fire 6 rounds in .85 seconds on 3 seperate targets spaced 5'
apart (currently), but as is known..Ive been away from competition
shooting for a few years and the stroke didnt help much.
Shrug. Think thats fast enough? Lots and lots of guys are much much
much faster. During my competition days...that time was below .5
seconds
Ed Huntress
>I didn't see any teabagging going on. They were all wearing
> clothes. They mighta been homosexual men, but I didn't see
> any teabagging.
Where did you get the idea that teabagging was a homosexual activity, Chris?
> Anyone teabagging with that under age boy
> would have been committing a crime in most parts of the USA.
His parents probably should be arrested, then. d8-)
Gunner Asch
wrote:
the 45 is hardly an elephant gun and the 9mm is hardly a pea shooter.
However...that the .45 is far superior to the 9mm is hardly an issue.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/stopping_power_dialogue.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2004/oct2004/oct04leb.htm#page_15
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
You may wish to study this chart....
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
and review these articles....
http://www.mouseguns.com/amball.htm
Carry what you want. If you carry a round that has minimal "stopping
power", with luck, he might let you shoot him until he actually does go
down.
If not..he might simply kill you.
Something to consider when carrying a firearm in the Real World
Gunner
45acp with 230gr Golden Sabres
357 Mag with 125gr JHP
.41 Mag with 210gr Golden Sabres
Gunner Asch
Ive taught literally hundreds of people to shoot handguns, and very few
have had any trouble with the .45
My wife 110lbs, 5'2", was rated #2 in the state for a number of years
in combat shooting..with full house 230 grain 45 ammo.
Its hardly an "uncontrollable beast"
Gunner
Pete C.
My 9mm typically has either the 124gr JHP Golden Sabers, or 124gr FMJ
Rangers. I also don't aim for CoM.
cavelamb
Oh Karl!
Don'cha hate when that happens!
Stormin Mormon
an internet friend) told me so.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagging
The answer is R-rated.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4bb0f5c7$0$22522$607e...@cv.net...
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:hoqkgs$lgo$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>I didn't see any teabagging going on. They were all wearing
> clothes. They mighta been homosexual men, but I didn't see
> any teabagging.
Where did you get the idea that teabagging was a homosexual
activity, Chris?
>
> http://wonkette.com/407874/vulgar-fat-child-attends-teabagging-rally
>
Ed Huntress
> Looked up the term on the internet, after someone (probably
> an internet friend) told me so.
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabagging
> The answer is R-rated.
Yeah. Here's one of their examples:
"Me and Jen were teabagging last night when her mom walked in. Awkward."
Better luck next time, Chris.
--
Ed Huntress
Wes
>
>Yeah. Here's one of their examples:
>
>"Me and Jen were teabagging last night when her mom walked in. Awkward."
>
>Better luck next time, Chris.
Lets try wikipedia. TMI BTW.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
cavelamb
I was referring to NASA, but ok, won't make a federal case out of it.
But the NASA stuff - oh boy - orbital rendezvous, burn times and attitudes,
mission stuff - once that was pretty much debugged, it became holy code.
You know that once someone got a program running it would be used forever.
(witness the Y2K scare in commercial circles)
So while the new kids came in with their fancy new languages, the old geezers
who wrote the original stuff kept right on banging bits together.
And if we go back to the early missions like Mercury...
Rock for zero, stick for one...
RBnDFW
> "Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
> news:127rq55sotskkdbqr...@4ax.com...
>> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
>> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
> <snip>
>
> JB had a gift! I have a few of his designs and I appreciate them. I have a
> P08 that is truely a work of art but hasn't the practicality, durability or
> ease of mfg. of the 1911. The bad side is that many of my handguns,
> especially the P08 are now too valuable as "collector" pieces that I'm
> afraid to use them. The last appraisal I had on the P08 was over $4k, I
> wish I had one to shoot!
Shooter grade P08s are readily available for under $1000
Indulge yourself !
Ed Huntress
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Yeah. Here's one of their examples:
>>
>>"Me and Jen were teabagging last night when her mom walked in. Awkward."
>>
>>Better luck next time, Chris.
>
>
> Lets try wikipedia. TMI BTW.
>
> Wes
And what does it say, Wes?
--
Ed Huntress
Stormin Mormon
gun?"
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jon Anderson" <jande...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wJ5sn.149101$rq1....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
Wes
Sorry, I *thought* I posted the link. Wasn't very nice though. I'll try again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea-bagger
I don't think the heterosexual explainations of the term were on Garafalo's nasty mind
when she said:
In April 2009, Garofalo drew criticism when she denounced the Tea Party protests, saying:
“ Let's be very honest about what this is about. This is not about bashing
Democrats. It's not about taxes. They have no idea what the Boston Tea Party was about.
They don't know their history at all. It's about hating a black man in the White House.
That is racism straight up. This is nothing but a bunch of teabagging rednecks.[17]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janeane_Garofalo
Wes
Stormin Mormon
didn't understand.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4bb1187e$0$31284$607e...@cv.net...
Stormin Mormon
clarified, and he keeps not understanding. I can't get too
worried about that.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:uT8sn.192535$Vq1....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
pyotr filipivich
Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:37:19 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>> Neither did NASA when we went to the moon.
>>>
>> I wonder how much sooner we would have got there if the engineers had a scientific
>> calculator instead of those books of logarithms?
>>
>> Wes
>
>You mean like - now???
>
>I'm almost ready to believe that it was a one-time thing.
>
>Will we EVER go back?
Should we go back?
I wish I had taken notes, because I loaned the book. "Mars
Direct" is the program, which figured that using the technology
available in 1994, it was possible to put men on Mars for about 20
billion dollars. No need to invent space stations, moon bases, or
"battle star galactica" multi-tonne Space Cruisers (you know the ones
- a thousand meter long monsters with a crew of 5,000.). Two Saturn
rocket (or equivalent) launches and the project is underway.
Why not the Moon? Because, in short, you have to take everything
with you, there's nothing there readily exploitable. Fuel for a
return trip can be made on Mars - it's evidentially 1890s technology.
Secondly in terms of delta V, the moon is almost as far as Mars. That
is you have to spend money (fuel) all the way to the surface. On
Mars, you can aero brake into orbiter, and land by parachute. And
the environment on the Moon is hostile. Remember, earth plants are
set up for a twenty four hour cycle, not 29 days.
Personally, I don't care which way we go, but I'm more
enthusiastic for a Mars mission. OTOH, Obama care will mean that
there will be no money for any space program. Or any other future.
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Wes
>> JB had a gift! I have a few of his designs and I appreciate them. I have a
>> P08 that is truely a work of art but hasn't the practicality, durability or
>> ease of mfg. of the 1911. The bad side is that many of my handguns,
>> especially the P08 are now too valuable as "collector" pieces that I'm
>> afraid to use them. The last appraisal I had on the P08 was over $4k, I
>> wish I had one to shoot!
>
>Shooter grade P08s are readily available for under $1000
>Indulge yourself !
I almost bought a P38 until I was clued it it was post war and had an alloy frame.
I'll never have a real Luger though I have have a fun little Stoeger Luger .22 pistol
which isn't the same thing but has the shape.
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/stoeger_luger.pdf
Wes
Jim Stewart
And
> the environment on the Moon is hostile. Remember, earth plants are
> set up for a twenty four hour cycle, not 29 days.
Isn't one side of the moon always in the sun and
the other dark?
Larry Jaques
<gunne...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:24:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>Zero would be my preference. I just don't want to have any real
>>>>possibility of going empty in any reasonably probable scenario.
>>>
>>>Average number of rounds fired in a self defense shooting
>>>situation...2.5 <G>
>>>
>>>Average range, 7 yrds
>>>
>>>I think you are going to be pretty safe with a 8 rd weapon that can
>>>actually stop someone with the first round. That unfortunately cant be
>>>said of the 9mm
>>
>>And how long does it usually take to get that 2nd or 3rd round off?
>
>.2 seconds for the average shooter.
Not with my Keltec P-11. It has a three inch/15lb pull trigger. ;)
Gotta learn to bumpfire the SKS for bigger parties. <evil grinne>
>I can fire 6 rounds in .85 seconds on 3 seperate targets spaced 5'
>apart (currently), but as is known..Ive been away from competition
>shooting for a few years and the stroke didnt help much.
>
>Shrug. Think thats fast enough? Lots and lots of guys are much much
>much faster. During my competition days...that time was below .5
>seconds
Yabbut, how many of those guys are going to come gunning for you in
your home, etc? I think the average bad guy shoots a bit mroe slowly,
but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
Did you have a better stat page for me? You didn't address that.
--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren
Gunner Asch
wrote:
If you DONT aim for center of mass, in a combat situation, you are
going to have a very very nasty surprise in store for you.
I hope you survive.
Btw...the 9mm load you are shooting is on a par with the same load in 38
Special.
Just a heads up.
Gunner
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Personally, I don't care which way we go, but I'm more
>enthusiastic for a Mars mission.
Let me guess, you're against deficit spending as well...
> OTOH, Obama care will mean that
>there will be no money for any space program.
Why don't you suggest hospitals on the moon? That makes way more sense
than phony conservatives lobbying for a Mars mission.
Wayne
Larry Jaques
<aux3....@snet.net> scrawled the following:
>
>Gunner Asch wrote:
--snip of answer to question I asked earlier--
>> Carry what you want. If you carry a round that has minimal "stopping
>> power", with luck, he might let you shoot him until he actually does go
>> down.
>> If not..he might simply kill you.
>>
>> Something to consider when carrying a firearm in the Real World
>>
>> Gunner
>> 45acp with 230gr Golden Sabres
>> 357 Mag with 125gr JHP
>> .41 Mag with 210gr Golden Sabres
>
>My 9mm typically has either the 124gr JHP Golden Sabers, or 124gr FMJ
>Rangers. I also don't aim for CoM.
Mine has Remington UMC 115gr JHP, 'cuz they were cheap for practice. I
should buy some real ammo some time, huh?
I guess that in the extra 0.4 secs it takes to put 2 more 9mm rounds
in a bad guy, he won't be doing too much to stop us...IF we get off
the first shot, or make our first shot count.
So, you make headshots, just in case they're wearing armor?
Good show, Pete. ;)
cavelamb
NO!
cavelamb
>
> Should we go back?
>
> I wish I had taken notes, because I loaned the book. "Mars
> Direct" is the program, which figured that using the technology
> available in 1994, it was possible to put men on Mars for about 20
> billion dollars. No need to invent space stations, moon bases, or
> "battle star galactica" multi-tonne Space Cruisers (you know the ones
> - a thousand meter long monsters with a crew of 5,000.). Two Saturn
> rocket (or equivalent) launches and the project is underway.
> Why not the Moon? Because, in short, you have to take everything
> with you, there's nothing there readily exploitable. Fuel for a
> return trip can be made on Mars - it's evidentially 1890s technology.
> Secondly in terms of delta V, the moon is almost as far as Mars. That
> is you have to spend money (fuel) all the way to the surface. On
> Mars, you can aero brake into orbiter, and land by parachute. And
> the environment on the Moon is hostile. Remember, earth plants are
> set up for a twenty four hour cycle, not 29 days.
>
> Personally, I don't care which way we go, but I'm more
> enthusiastic for a Mars mission. OTOH, Obama care will mean that
> there will be no money for any space program. Or any other future.
>
> pyotr
>
> -
> pyotr filipivich
It's about the depth of the gravity well, p.
The moon (IMHO) was put there as a useful resource.
Aluminum galore.
LOTS of solar power.
And - damit - water!
So, you DON'T have to take every thing with you.
You mine, refine, and manufacture - on the moon.
Unless, of course, you want to go straight to Mars.
(Which I doubt it really do-able)
We NEED a moon base...
Heck, check the escape velocity numbers.
You can THROW stuff up to orbit from the moon.
(solar powered linear accelerators)
Had we set up a moon base back in the 70s - 80s, I'd
bet we'd be ON Mars by now.
But without that "tree house in the sky"?
We aren't going anywhere.
Ever.
Stormin Mormon
remember that one side of the moon is always light, the
other always dark.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"cavelamb" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UfidnXD2ZoA-zyzW...@earthlink.com...
cavelamb
> It's been a long time since grade school. But I some how
> remember that one side of the moon is always light, the
> other always dark.
>
Nope.
If keeps one face toward us (more or less).
We never see the other side of the moon.
But the Sun does - about 1/2 of the time.
From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon
Libration
Animation of the Moon as it cycles through its phases. The apparent wobbling of
the Moon is known as libration.
The Moon is in synchronous rotation, meaning that it keeps the same face turned
toward the Earth at all times. This synchronous rotation is only true on average
because the Moon's orbit has a definite eccentricity. As a result, the angular
velocity of the Moon varies as it moves around the Earth, and is hence not
always equal to the Moon's rotational velocity. When the Moon is at its perigee,
its rotation is slower than its orbital motion, and this allows us to see up to
eight degrees of longitude of its eastern (right) far side. Conversely, when the
Moon reaches its apogee, its rotation is faster than its orbital motion and this
reveals eight degrees of longitude of its western (left) far side. This is
referred to as longitudinal libration.
Because the lunar orbit is also inclined to the Earth's ecliptic plane by 5.1°,
the rotation axis of the Moon seems to rotate towards and away from us during
one complete orbit. This is referred to as latitudinal libration, which allows
one to see almost 7° of latitude beyond the pole on the far side. Finally,
because the Moon is only about 60 Earth radii away from the Earth's center of
mass, an observer at the equator who observes the Moon throughout the night
moves laterally by one Earth diameter. This gives rise to a diurnal libration,
which allows one to view an additional one degree's worth of lunar longitude.
For the same reason, observers at both geographical poles of the Earth would be
able to see one additional degree's worth of libration in latitude.
RAMł
news:LIqdnclTsZ7NvCzW...@earthlink.com:
<chuckling>
Some code that I wrote in the '60s is still in production. <grin>
>
> So while the new kids came in with their fancy new languages, the old
> geezers who wrote the original stuff kept right on banging bits
> together.
As an old "bit banger", myself, I learned early on to appreciate the use
of assemblers/compilers as, quite simply, a faster way to handle a lot of
the "housekeeping".
One nice feature of several companies' compilers was the ability to start
out with an "envelope" using one language, shift into another one, pop
back into the "envelope" and, then, shift into yet another one before
going back to the original *all while doing in-line code*. These
"hybrids" enabled functionality that, otherwise, would have proven
exceptionally difficult if not impossible. [Yah, I wound up doing a lot
of "unique" code over the years. <grin>]
Pete C.
I presume that the perp may have body armor. 9mm or .45 aint' going to
make any difference if a CoM shot hits BA. I aim a little higher to
ensure the desired effect BA or no.
>
> Btw...the 9mm load you are shooting is on a par with the same load in 38
> Special.
>
> Just a heads up.
The Rangers are NATO.