Fast track to inequality....
Gunner Asch
common subject as representing the ultimate in evil and corruption,
typifying All That's Wrong with Them, and indirectly responsible for the
socio-economic-liberal-socialist disaster, so let's run with that. (yes,
I'm being flip, but bear with me a bit)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm
Now, based on figures in that, I get a rough total out-go in yearly
federal wages of about $270 billion.
If we reduced (however fairly or unfairly) the wages of those sods to
what the rest of us make, the net budget reduction would be about $100
billion. The share of that taken from Union jobs in government is
probably less than half, as typically unions disproportionately
represent workers in trades on the lower end of the compensation
spectrum (no, I'm not ignoring teachers, airline pilots and The Like...
they tend not to be Federal). But, lets be generous and assign them
responsibility for all of the difference.
Once we take back that $100 billion from the membership of selfish
greedy organizations that represent the interests of a mere 1 million
(assuming my membership numbers are approximately correct) lazy, greedy
people, where the blazes is the rest of the money going? (My point here
is, even if you assume absolute perfidy on the part of the unions, the
net we get by extinguishing them is a fraction of the deficit. They are
a stalking horse, a red herring, an easy target.)
So,
Who is getting the rest?
How many of them are there?
How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,
Just Me
is bloated and out of control,but the military itself is out of
control,they spend a lot of time and effort fight amongst themselves
over who should be doing what and it is just wasteful.The military
should be a single four branch service, if it flys its airforce,if it
floats its navy,ground is army and special ops is marines,the marines
don't need their own airforce.Each of the branches should talk with
each other instead of competing for limited funds for basically
duplicate functions.With in the branches there obviously would be sub
sections,marines special ops in the water would seal type work and
they would talk to the navy on the best options,instead of fighting
with the navy about it.But of course that makes sense and we can't
have that.
the unions and federal pay scales etc is just a red herring whose
primary purpose is to keep the serfs distracted.
F. George McDuffee
for a few candidates see
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/
http://www.indyposted.com/30512/walmarts-ceo-an-hours-work-for-a-years-pay/
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/11/news/economy/bank_bonuses/
>
>How many of them are there?
>
>How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
>credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
for a few of the $ leaks see
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aujAc626t9WY
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html
http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/30/avoid-capital-gains-tax-anschutz-personal-finance-baldwin-tax-strategy.html
For a discussion on this point see
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,726575,00.html
<snip>
The American economy has grown dramatically over the last
three decades, but median wages have barely grown at all.
Median family incomes have grown slightly but only because
women have gone into the paid workforce in great numbers,
because everyone was working longer and because people had
more disposable income to the extent that they could borrow.
<snip>
We have not seen such a large gap between the top and the
bottom since 1929 and you know what happened then.
<snip>
Then {1950s-1960s} we had a marginal income tax on the
highest earners of 91 percent, now the marginal income tax
on highest earners is 36 percent, but the super rich have
managed to exploit a loophole in which much of their income
is treated as capital gains and, therefore, subject to only
a 15 percent tax.
<snip>
-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Gunner Asch
<mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Each of the branches should talk with
>each other instead of competing for limited funds for basically
>duplicate functions.
So we put Air Force wienies into slicks and dustoffs and have them run
with the jarheads?
So..tell us all why you never served in the military.
Gunner
Gunner Asch
<gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>>
>>Once we take back that $100 billion from the membership of selfish
>>greedy organizations that represent the interests of a mere 1 million
>>(assuming my membership numbers are approximately correct) lazy, greedy
>>people, where the blazes is the rest of the money going? (My point here
>>is, even if you assume absolute perfidy on the part of the unions, the
>>net we get by extinguishing them is a fraction of the deficit. They are
>>a stalking horse, a red herring, an easy target.)
>>
>>So,
>>
>>Who is getting the rest?
>
>for a few candidates see
>http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/
>http://www.indyposted.com/30512/walmarts-ceo-an-hours-work-for-a-years-pay/
>http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/11/news/economy/bank_bonuses/
Nothing there about where that extra money in government job spending
went.
Please try again. Im fascinated to know.
Gunner
Steve Lusardi
be realized by total elimination of unnecessary government functions and public entitlements. Unfortunately, the existing
establishment will not create professional suicide, even with the remarkable elections results we have just witnessed. Personally
I believe much more drastic measures will be required, like the repeal of the 17th amendment and the elimination of the Federal
Reserve. Since the odds that these things will happen are slim to none without a revolution. I do not see our nation remaining a
significant world power. Our military and International influence is a direct result of our national wealth. We have created a
national debt that is NOT repayable without raining on other national interests or drastic inflation, both of which would lead to
war and without our national wealth, our nation would most likely be lost. I for one, hope my grim predictions are wrong, but at
the moment, I cannot see salvation. We as a nation are not willing to make the required sacrifices or sustain the personal
discipline required.
Steve
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3jt0d6difvteg56cu...@4ax.com...
F. George McDuffee
<steve...@lusardi.de> wrote:
<snip>
>We as a nation are not willing to make the required sacrifices or sustain the personal
>discipline required.
========
One of the fundamental problems is that no matter how much
the majority sacrifices or how much self discipline, delayed
gratification and [re]investment they might exhibit, any
gains are skimmed off the top by the few that got us to this
condition in the first place.
One example, historically, every 1 dollar increase in
governmental revenue was matched by 1.10 to 1.25 additional
spending, simply digging the hole that much deeper, rather
than retiring existing debt.
As has been noted in other articles I have posted, the U.S.
inflation adjust wage has been static for more than 30 years
indicating that *NONE* of the increased productivity was
shared with the employees, but rather skimmed by management,
with a little of it going to the stockholders [that actually
own the companies], however a review of the amounts of
dividends paid show this was relatively small amount.
It now appears that much of the apparent wealth generated
for the last generation was an illusion in that this was not
the the result of "value added" anything but rather resulted
from "financial engineering" and the liquidation/conversion
of corporate assets from real physical plants and equipment
to pension funds and individual assets such as home equity,
and were no more real than the feelings of omnipotecent and
euphoria induced by crack and crank in the individual.
This has been totally a bipartisan effort, and it is highly
doubtful the new Republican majorities will or indeed can
address any of the root causes, as they have been the source
of much of the problems. I.e. repeal of Glass-Steagall,
deregulation, expansion of entitlements, unjustifiable tax
cuts that accelerated bubble expansion and asset
concentration, and 2 (known) ongoing and apparently eternal
wars (and this is only at the national level).
F. George McDuffee
>Who is getting the rest?
>
>How many of them are there?
>
>How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
>credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
==========
some more data for your collection:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704462704575590642149103202.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
<snip>
General Motors Co. will drive away from its
U.S.-government-financed restructuring with a final gift in
its trunk: a tax break that could be worth as much as $45
billion.
<snip>
Jeff M
> On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:37:34 -0700, Gunner Asch
> <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>> Who is getting the rest?
>>
>> How many of them are there?
>>
>> How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
>> credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
> <snip>
> ==========
> some more data for your collection:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704462704575590642149103202.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
> <snip>
> General Motors Co. will drive away from its
> U.S.-government-financed restructuring with a final gift in
> its trunk: a tax break that could be worth as much as $45
> billion.
> <snip>
Many highly profitable Fortune 500 corporations don't pay any federal
income tax at all. For example, ExxonMobil earned a record-breaking
$45.2 billion profit last year, but paid ZERO income tax. Instead, it
channeled the $15 billion it would have owed to its corporate tax
shelters overseas. General Electric earned a $10.3 billion profit last
year, and not only paid ZERO income tax, but we ended up owing them $1.1
billion in tax credits. Why should GM be any different? Thanks,
Congress!!!
Gunner Asch
<steve...@lusardi.de> wrote:
>Gains from reducing existing departments will be minimal across both State and Federal Governments. Significant savings can only
>be realized by total elimination of unnecessary government functions and public entitlements. Unfortunately, the existing
>establishment will not create professional suicide, even with the remarkable elections results we have just witnessed. Personally
>I believe much more drastic measures will be required, like the repeal of the 17th amendment and the elimination of the Federal
>Reserve. Since the odds that these things will happen are slim to none without a revolution. I do not see our nation remaining a
>significant world power. Our military and International influence is a direct result of our national wealth. We have created a
>national debt that is NOT repayable without raining on other national interests or drastic inflation, both of which would lead to
>war and without our national wealth, our nation would most likely be lost. I for one, hope my grim predictions are wrong, but at
>the moment, I cannot see salvation. We as a nation are not willing to make the required sacrifices or sustain the personal
>discipline required.
>Steve
Then stock up for the Great Cull......
Dan
> Gains from reducing existing departments will be minimal across both
> State and Federal Governments. Significant savings can only be realized
> by total elimination of unnecessary government functions and public
> entitlements. Unfortunately, the existing establishment will not create
> professional suicide, even with the remarkable elections results we have
> just witnessed.
a) They are not particularly remarkable to people who study history...
b) Republicans have never been known for cutting anything.
> Personally I believe much more drastic measures will be
> required, like the repeal of the 17th amendment and the elimination of
> the Federal Reserve. Since the odds that these things will happen are
> slim to none without a revolution. I do not see our nation remaining a
> significant world power. Our military and International influence is a
> direct result of our national wealth. We have created a national debt
> that is NOT repayable without raining on other national interests or
> drastic inflation, both of which would lead to war and without our
> national wealth, our nation would most likely be lost. I for one, hope
> my grim predictions are wrong, but at the moment, I cannot see
> salvation. We as a nation are not willing to make the required
> sacrifices or sustain the personal discipline required.
> Steve
Then don't vote Republican - they certainly have never helped make this
country a power (at least, not since I've been alive - half century).
Hint: you don't get much out of slaves/serfs, which is where
corporatocracy leads.
Dan
Dan
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 07:50:08 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
> <steve...@lusardi.de> wrote:
>
>> Gains from reducing existing departments will be minimal across both State and Federal Governments. Significant savings can only
>> be realized by total elimination of unnecessary government functions and public entitlements. Unfortunately, the existing
>> establishment will not create professional suicide, even with the remarkable elections results we have just witnessed. Personally
>> I believe much more drastic measures will be required, like the repeal of the 17th amendment and the elimination of the Federal
>> Reserve. Since the odds that these things will happen are slim to none without a revolution. I do not see our nation remaining a
>> significant world power. Our military and International influence is a direct result of our national wealth. We have created a
>> national debt that is NOT repayable without raining on other national interests or drastic inflation, both of which would lead to
>> war and without our national wealth, our nation would most likely be lost. I for one, hope my grim predictions are wrong, but at
>> the moment, I cannot see salvation. We as a nation are not willing to make the required sacrifices or sustain the personal
>> discipline required.
>> Steve
>
> Then stock up for the Great Cull......
He didn't say he wanted the problem to accelerate, dipshit.
Dan
Michael A. Terrell
Hint: Your side lost, just like they deserved to. Alan Grayson was
the biggest loser of all the Democrats. After all his ranting that all
Republicans are losers, one kicked his ass.
--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.
F. George McDuffee
========
Indeed and more data items for Gunner's collection.
However some of the economic stimulus is working -- see
http://www.intel.com/jobs/vietnam/
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210245/Intel-opens-Vietnam-IC-assembly-plant-semiconductor
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9J5M77O1.htm
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/09/25/ford-build-second-engine-plant-china/
Gunner Asch
My but those are certainly going to help our unemployment numbers arent
they?
>
>
>
>-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
>..............................
>The past is a foreign country;
>they do things differently there.
>L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
>The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
Steve Lusardi
were going to buy $600 Billion of their own securities in an attempt to stimulate M1 and get money flowing again in our
economy.BBC then said that this may have some value in stimulus, but extreme concern must be used to prevent inflation.
Well here is my take on this. It isn't economic stimulation behind this. The goal IS inflation. Without inflation the national
debt , as stated earlier, is not repayable. The national debt, you see is a whole bunch of numbers contracts where the value of
these contracts in real terms depends on the currency unit's value, the US Dollar. Inflation diminishes the unit value and at
first glance, this sounds like a wonderful, made in heaven solution until you realize that this same inflation also diminishes all
you have ever saved and accumulated. It is backdoor taxation in the worst possible sense. This is a government sponsored Ponzi
scam . If you or I were to do this, we would go to jail for a very long time. The inevitable result can only be the tanking of
the US Dollar. The wealthy will unload their $ holdings into other currencies and vote with their feet, leaving the rest of us
holding the debt bag.
Steve
"Steve Lusardi" <steve...@lusardi.de> wrote in message news:iar0mu$a47$02$1...@news.t-online.com...
F. George McDuffee
<steve...@lusardi.de> wrote:
<snip>
>Well here is my take on this. It isn't economic stimulation behind this.
>The goal IS inflation. Without inflation the national
>debt , as stated earlier, is not repayable.
<snip>
When reduced to its operational effect, this is a capital
levy on anyone holding U.S. dollars or equivalents such as
U.S. denominated bonds.
This will of course fall most heavily on the people who have
the bulk of their assets in such forms, particularly after
their home equity and IRAs/401Ks were depleted [attempting
to avoid foreclosure].
As an alternative, an actual significant progressive capital
levy on ultra high net worth individuals, trusts,
corporations, etc., subject to U.S. taxes, regardless of the
form [i.e. euros, gold] and location [i.e. owned anywhere in
the world], should prove helpful. Especially, if it is
clear that another, even larger, capital levy on their
assets is planned, if the U.S. economy does not turn around,
the U.S. governmental deficits at all levels are not
eliminated (and governmental debt reduced), and the balance
of payments trade deficit is not controlled.
Shall not be infringed
>
> <snip>>Well here is my take on this. It isn't economic stimulation behind this.
> >The goal IS inflation. Without inflation the national
> >debt , as stated earlier, is not repayable.
>
> <snip>
>
> When reduced to its operational effect, this is a capital
> levy on anyone holding U.S. dollars or equivalents such as
> U.S. denominated bonds.
>
> This will of course fall most heavily on the people who have
> the bulk of their assets in such forms, particularly after
> their home equity and IRAs/401Ks were depleted [attempting
> to avoid foreclosure].
Gimme a break. People should be able to make their mortgage for years
from their 401k or IRA.
But add in two or three new car payments, digh def TVs and associated
multiple cable connections, designer clothes for the kids,
resturaunts, etc and you might be right.
vinny
the marines are navy.
A few battleships, aircraft carriers and subs are all we need...why even
have an army or airforce?
Michael A. Terrell
vinny wrote:
>
> "Gunner Asch" ?gunne...@gmail.com? wrote in message
> news:0sj1d65toph4sdjkg...@4ax.com...
> ? On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:50:32 -0700 (PDT), Just Me
> ? ?mutantm...@yahoo.com? wrote:
> ?
> ??Each of the branches should talk with
> ??each other instead of competing for limited funds for basically
> ??duplicate functions.
> ?
> ? So we put Air Force wienies into slicks and dustoffs and have them run
> ? with the jarheads?
> ?
> ? So..tell us all why you never served in the military.
> ?
> ? Gunner
> ?
> ?
>
> the marines are navy.
> A few battleships, aircraft carriers and subs are all we need...why even
> have an army or airforce?
You need someone to haul your ass out when you screw up.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Because the marines are only good for close brutal fighting. Subs are
only good for launching nukes..and torpedoing shipping
Battleships..are great big targets for subs and nukes
Aircraft Carriers dont work really well unless one can get within a 1000
miles or less of the target. They wont work really well in say..the
Baltics...And they cant carry all that many combat aircraft. Given that
CAP flights protecting the carriers themselves eat up about 20-25% of a
carriers aircraft capacity, air strikes tend to run in waves. And then
you have to have deckage for AWACS, tankers and so forth.
Carriers really cant carry as many 'combat' aircraft as you would
think.
There are a number of really good reasons why our military forces have
evolved into the forms they have. And a few bad ones.
You do know that the Airforce used to be the Army Airforce..until
1949..right?
All those bombers over Europe in WW2...Army guys.....
Gunner
Gunner Asch
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>vinny wrote:
>>
>> "Gunner Asch" ?gunne...@gmail.com? wrote in message
>> news:0sj1d65toph4sdjkg...@4ax.com...
>> ? On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:50:32 -0700 (PDT), Just Me
>> ? ?mutantm...@yahoo.com? wrote:
>> ?
>> ??Each of the branches should talk with
>> ??each other instead of competing for limited funds for basically
>> ??duplicate functions.
>> ?
>> ? So we put Air Force wienies into slicks and dustoffs and have them run
>> ? with the jarheads?
>> ?
>> ? So..tell us all why you never served in the military.
>> ?
>> ? Gunner
>> ?
>> ?
>>
>> the marines are navy.
>> A few battleships, aircraft carriers and subs are all we need...why even
>> have an army or airforce?
>
>
> You need someone to haul your ass out when you screw up.
Indeed.
Gunner,
75th Rangers, 71-73 RVN
Michael A. Terrell
All the medivac pilots from Korea onward, too.
Frank
> Let me toss this out as some meat for people to chew on. Unions are a
> common subject as representing the ultimate in evil and corruption,
> typifying All That's Wrong with Them, and indirectly responsible for the
> socio-economic-liberal-socialist disaster, so let's run with that. (yes,
> I'm being flip, but bear with me a bit)
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm
>
> Now, based on figures in that, I get a rough total out-go in yearly
> federal wages of about $270 billion.
>
> If we reduced (however fairly or unfairly) the wages of those sods to
> what the rest of us make, the net budget reduction would be about $100
> billion. The share of that taken from Union jobs in government is
> probably less than half, as typically unions disproportionately
> represent workers in trades on the lower end of the compensation
> spectrum (no, I'm not ignoring teachers, airline pilots and The Like...
> they tend not to be Federal). But, lets be generous and assign them
> responsibility for all of the difference.
>
> Once we take back that $100 billion from the membership of selfish
> greedy organizations that represent the interests of a mere 1 million
> (assuming my membership numbers are approximately correct) lazy, greedy
> people, where the blazes is the rest of the money going? (My point here
> is, even if you assume absolute perfidy on the part of the unions, the
> net we get by extinguishing them is a fraction of the deficit. They are
> a stalking horse, a red herring, an easy target.)
>
unions and teachers unions. Who are the unionized against? It's us,
the public. As if, governments were not paternalistic enough.
Michael A. Terrell
I'm sure 'vinny' wouldn't refuse a ride on a medivac copter if he was
bleeding to death. I worked in the 'Weathervision' section at Ft.
Rucker to deliver weather data and ETV to the student copter pilots in
the early '70s. As soon as they graduated, they went to 'Nam. A lot
of people owe their lives and a lot of limbs to those brave pilots.
Flying into combat areas to retrieve injured soldiers, sometimes against
orders from the brass.
Jeff M
>
> Gunner Asch wrote:
[snip]
>> Gunner,
>> 75th Rangers, 71-73 RVN
"The conventional approach to the history of LRRP, LRP, and Ranger unit
employment in Vietnam is first to acknowledge the three chronological
periods of their existence: ...
... On 1 February 1969, the final period of the existence of these units
began when the Department of the Army re-designated the LRP companies
and detachments as lettered Ranger companies of the 75th Infantry
Regiment under the Combined Arms Regimental System (CARS) ... The third
period ended when the Ranger companies were inactivated as their parent
units were withdrawn from the war between November 1969 (Company O of 3d
Brigade 82d Airborne Division), and 15 August 1972 (Company H of 1st Air
Cavalry Division) [6]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/75th_Ranger_Regiment_%28United_States%29#Vietnam_War
*****
Co C (Ranger),75th Infantry I Field Force Vietnam 1 Feb. 1969 - 25
Oct. 1971
Co D (Ranger),151st Infantry II Field Force Vietnam 1 Feb. 1969 - 20
Nov. 1969
Co D (Ranger),75th Infantry II Field Force Vietnam 20 Nov. 1969 - 10
Apr. 1970
Co E (Ranger),75th Infantry 9th Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 12 Oct. 1970
Co F (Ranger),75th Infantry 25th Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 15 Mar 1971
Co G (Ranger),75th Infantry 23rd Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 1 Oct. 1971
Co H (Ranger),75th Infantry 1st Cavalry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 15 Aug. 1972
Co I (Ranger),75th Infantry 1st Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 7 Apr. 1970
Co K (Ranger),75th Infantry 4th Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 10 Dec. 1970
Co L (Ranger),75th Infantry 1O1st Airmobile Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 25
Dec. 1971
Co M (Ranger),75th Infantry 199th Infantry Brigade 1 Feb. 1969 - 12 Oct.
1970
Co N (Ranger),75th Infantry 173rd Airborne Brigade 1 Feb. 1969 - 25 Aug.
1971
Co 0 (Ranger),75th Infantry 3rd Brigade,82nd Abn. 1 Feb. 1969 - Division
20 Nov. 1969
Co P (Ranger),75th Infantry 1st Brigade, 5th Mech. 1 Feb. 1969 -
Division 31 Aug. 1971.
http://www.suasponte.com/vietnam.htm
There didn't seem to have been too many of the 75th Rangers in-country
in the period of 1971-73. In fact, it appears that the last of them,
(Co. H) left around 15 Aug 72, officially, anyway. It seems likely that
a survivor or two of such a relatively small handful of guys would
surely remember Gunner well enough to help him verify his service and
get his military records sorted out (Gunner enlisted under a false name,
since he was underage at the time, causing him to have no record, DD
214, etc.), so he can get the benefits and recognition to which his
service entitles him.
The reunion for the 75th Ranger Association is set for July 25-30, 2011.
http://www.75thrra.com/ That would be a good way for Gunner to make
the re-acquaintance with his former brothers in arms. Maybe someone
here could pass this on to him, or even help him out with it? I offered
to help him with it in the past, since I'd dealt with other
underage-enlisted vets, but he wasn't interested. Still, I firmly
believe that no vet should be denied his due.
pyotr filipivich
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> reported Elvis on Wed, 03 Nov
2010 13:58:19 -0400 in misc.survivalism:
>
>>
>> Then don't vote Republican - they certainly have never helped make this
>> country a power (at least, not since I've been alive - half century).
>>
>> Hint: you don't get much out of slaves/serfs, which is where
>> corporatocracy leads.
>
>
> Hint: Your side lost, just like they deserved to. Alan Grayson was
>the biggest loser of all the Democrats. After all his ranting that all
>Republicans are losers, one kicked his ass.
Dan doesn't understand, that under capitalism, man exploits man,
but that under a progressive system it is the other way around.
>--
>Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
>enough left over to pay them.
--
pyotr filipivich
Just when you think you see the light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a 900lb gorilla with a flashlight!!
Don Foreman
wrote:
>On 11/4/2010 4:22 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Roger that!
Gunner Asch
Indeed. Shrug But as Ive mentioned before..I was TDY for much of my (2)
tours..as many here know..parts of the 75th was used as a "paper
anchor" for people who were involved in other activities. Particularly
Company D and H..which had lots of names..but fewer
actual...participants. CORDS had fingers in many many dikes..
As Ive stated ..I am somewhat familiar with the Special Activities
Division.... and the Chien dich Phung Hoang, and after 1972...may have
been .loaned to an organization inside the Department of
Agriculture....along with my PRU 'yards/mercs. Shrug Until I zigged
instead of zagged and was medivaced to Japan late in 1973.
I heard about Agnews resignation over the tv..heard because I was blind
and bedridden in Honsu, Japan. 163 lbs. 35 lbs under my inservice
weight.
Good doctors there. Though with all the tetracycline they stuffed in
me..Im allergic to it now days.
3 months later..I was doing my "walkabout" in Europe.
You do know that there were quite a number of Americans still working in
and around the Triangle after May of 1973, do you not? Some guys were
there till 1975. True indeed. They are some who really hate the
Government btw. The few articles one encounters with reference to
Americans in the area after 1973...refer to "policemen and other people"
And more than a few Yanks participated in Rhodesias little dust up here
and there until 1979...though some decided that enough was enough and
simply..left.
Feel free to google any questions you might have. Answers are indeed
out there. You just wont get them from me.
And since Im now finished with this part of this discussion...does Jeff
have any comments about his party getting its ass kicked in Phase 1 of
the Return of the Nation to the Constitution?
Gunner
--
rangerssuck
> On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 01:00:53 -0500, Don Foreman
>
>
>
>
>
> <dfore...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
> >On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 17:07:37 -0500, Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org>
> >wrote:
>
> >>On 11/4/2010 4:22 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> >>> Gunner Asch wrote:
> >>[snip]
> >>>> Gunner,
> >>>> 75th Rangers, 71-73 RVN
>
> >>"The conventional approach to the history of LRRP, LRP, and Ranger unit
> >>employment in Vietnam is first to acknowledge the three chronological
> >>periods of their existence: ...
> >>... On 1 February 1969, the final period of the existence of these units
> >>began when the Department of the Army re-designated the LRP companies
> >>and detachments as lettered Ranger companies of the 75th Infantry
> >>Regiment under the Combined Arms Regimental System (CARS) ... The third
> >>period ended when the Ranger companies were inactivated as their parent
> >>units were withdrawn from the war between November 1969 (Company O of 3d
> >>Brigade 82d Airborne Division), and 15 August 1972 (Company H of 1st Air
> >>Cavalry Division) [6]"
OK, Show of hands: Who believes any of this?
Michael A. Terrell
pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that "Michael A.
> Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> reported Elvis on Wed, 03 Nov
> 2010 13:58:19 -0400 in misc.survivalism:
> >
> >>
> >> Then don't vote Republican - they certainly have never helped make this
> >> country a power (at least, not since I've been alive - half century).
> >>
> >> Hint: you don't get much out of slaves/serfs, which is where
> >> corporatocracy leads.
> >
> >
> > Hint: Your side lost, just like they deserved to. Alan Grayson was
> >the biggest loser of all the Democrats. After all his ranting that all
> >Republicans are losers, one kicked his ass.
>
> Dan doesn't understand, that under capitalism, man exploits man,
> but that under a progressive system it is the other way around.
Dan doesn't understand why the sun comes up. :(
John Doe
Gunner Asch <gunnerasch gmail.com> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news-out.readnews.com!transit3.readnews.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!216.196.98.144.MISMATCH!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2010 15:37:44 -0500
> From: Gunner Asch <gunnerasch gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.machines.cnc,misc.survivalism
> Subject: Fast track to inequality....
> Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:37:34 -0700
> Reply-To: gunnerasch gmail.com
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>
> Let me toss this out as some meat for people to chew on. Unions are a
> common subject as representing the ultimate in evil and corruption,
> typifying All That's Wrong with Them, and indirectly responsible for the
> socio-economic-liberal-socialist disaster, so let's run with that. (yes,
> I'm being flip, but bear with me a bit)
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm
>
> Now, based on figures in that, I get a rough total out-go in yearly
> federal wages of about $270 billion.
>
> If we reduced (however fairly or unfairly) the wages of those sods to
> what the rest of us make, the net budget reduction would be about $100
> billion. The share of that taken from Union jobs in government is
> probably less than half, as typically unions disproportionately
> represent workers in trades on the lower end of the compensation
> spectrum (no, I'm not ignoring teachers, airline pilots and The Like...
> they tend not to be Federal). But, lets be generous and assign them
> responsibility for all of the difference.
>
> Once we take back that $100 billion from the membership of selfish
> greedy organizations that represent the interests of a mere 1 million
> (assuming my membership numbers are approximately correct) lazy, greedy
> people, where the blazes is the rest of the money going? (My point here
> is, even if you assume absolute perfidy on the part of the unions, the
> net we get by extinguishing them is a fraction of the deficit. They are
> a stalking horse, a red herring, an easy target.)
>
> So,
>
> Who is getting the rest?
>
> How many of them are there?
>
> How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
> credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
>
>
pyotr filipivich
infringed <hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> reported Elvis on Wed, 3
Nov 2010 16:59:39 -0700 (PDT) in misc.survivalism:
>On Nov 3, 6:16 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
>associates.us> wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:26:39 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
>>
>> <stevenos...@lusardi.de> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>>Well here is my take on this. It isn't economic stimulation behind this.
>> >The goal IS inflation. Without inflation the national
>> >debt , as stated earlier, is not repayable.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> When reduced to its operational effect, this is a capital
>> levy on anyone holding U.S. dollars or equivalents such as
>> U.S. denominated bonds.
>>
>> This will of course fall most heavily on the people who have
>> the bulk of their assets in such forms, particularly after
>> their home equity and IRAs/401Ks were depleted [attempting
>> to avoid foreclosure].
>
>Gimme a break. People should be able to make their mortgage for years
>from their 401k or IRA.
and then what????
Brian Lawson
<range...@gmail.com> wrote:
BIIIGGGG SNIP
>
>OK, Show of hands: Who believes any of this?
I DO !!
......... I DO !!!
...both hands waving in the air.
But that's 'cuz although I heartily disagree with much of Gunners
politics, he's a friend. The only bullshit I get from him is what he
would or wouldn't do for some Libby in trouble. Even against his
better judgment, he'd be the first to help in any way he could. He
just can't help it. He'd have to.
Take care.
Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
Gunner Asch
toolbreaker
> On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:24:45 -0400, Brian Lawson <laws...@ciaccess.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I believe gunner
Here is one reason: No one that was there and done that thinks he is
full of it. All it takes for someone who was there to converse for
two minutes to know if the other person is full of S*&&
The world is full of small people who when they interact with someone
who doesn’t support their world view they have to find some way to
discredit them. They are on the left or right but small people are
everywhere.
Ignoramus7928
I am just thinking, at least let your friends from the 75th know where
you are. They are probably wondering about you and want to meet you. I
am sure that quite a few of them are trying to find their long lost
friends. If I were you, I would not pass up the opportunity to
reconnect with them!
i
Ignoramus7928
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 04:35:53 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
>><range...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>BIIIGGGG SNIP
>>>
>>>OK, Show of hands: Who believes any of this?
>>
>> I DO !!
>>......... I DO !!!
>>
>>...both hands waving in the air.
>>
>>But that's 'cuz although I heartily disagree with much of Gunners
>>politics, he's a friend. The only bullshit I get from him is what he
>>would or wouldn't do for some Libby in trouble. Even against his
>>better judgment, he'd be the first to help in any way he could. He
>>just can't help it. He'd have to.
>>
>>Take care.
>>
>>Brian Lawson,
>>Bothwell, Ontario.
>
> Thanks Brian.
>
> Gunner
>
Gunner, under what name exactly did you serve there?
i
Gunner Asch
That...is something Ill not tell any of you.
But it wasnt my real name. I went in at 17, with a false birth cert
saying I was 19 almost 20.
Mom was virulantly antiwar..and had me listed as 4F by her
girlfriend..the head of the local draft board. I believe I mentioned
this before as well.
Which was ok for 40 yrs...but if I want to avail myself of the VA...a VA
attorney tells me it might take 2-4 yrs. He was not unfamiliar with the
problem, from what he told me. I wasnt the only guy who did this..by
far, for a variety of reasons.
So Ive backed away from it. Shrug...let guys who really need it, use
the taxpayers dollars available.
And I only joined to be a wireman. Shrug...best laid plans of mice and
men, often go aglay.
It caused me a certain amount of trouble 1/2 way into my first
tour...but after the friendly guys with the Ks and the bush jackets did
a bit of investigation...kicked me loose with a pat on the back and an
Attaboy. Shrug
Gunner Asch
Son...I have no living friends in the 75th to the best of my
knowledge..and as I mentioned..my involvement with that group was
largely on paper. Unless you dont know what TDY means. And perhaps you
might wish to google PRU as well.
Now I do know a couple retired guys who used to work for the Christians
in Action, and a couple retired GBs who I crossed paths with .....shrug
But most of us live simple lives without much contact with those that
survived. No reason to. And I brought out my Hmung buddy in 1985 from
a refugee camp in Thailand..but you wont be getting his name or
location either. He married into the Jari..which is quite rare. And I
was his "best man" at the "wedding"..so to speak. He saved my life
several times, I saved his..we share a life bond..
That was then..this is now. And if I want to relive old memories..all I
need to do is have a few drinks and take a nap in a nice quiet room.
Which is one of the reasons...I dont drink. Some memories..really need
to stay in a steel box in a tightly locked room way way back in the
brain. Perhaps the term "Phung Hoang" will tell you what sort of
memories those might be. Shrug.
I have no great love or hate for my service, I did what I had to do, had
some fun, had some bad times, did my job to the best of my ability and
then got on with my life. Any but a few surviving military friends I
have, are generally not American born.....
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/07/the-fate-of-the.html
http://www.mhro.org/immigration_family_reunification.html
http://www.ethniccommunities.org/spotlightold.htm
They do take donations btw. Ive been kicking in a few bucks now and then
for many years.
Sat Cong!!
Michael A. Terrell
How much money did you make last year?
Michael A. Terrell
Don Foreman
wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:03:13 -0500, Ignoramus7928
><ignora...@NOSPAM.7928.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-11-05, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Son...I have no living friends in the 75th to the best of my
>knowledge..and as I mentioned..my involvement with that group was
>largely on paper. Unless you dont know what TDY means.
TDY was used as a convenient subterfuge for activities they wanted to
keep deniable. I'm quite sure there is no record of my ever being
outside of CONUS. TDY didn't need to be classified because it could
be quite vague and nonspecific, primary focus being on per diem
payments. The finance guys checked their boxes, nobody else cared. TDY
activities could be essentially invisible if the financial details
were dealt with.
My 201 file was at Fort Lewis, WN, held by HQ Co of 35th Engr Bn (C).
The C stands for combat; the 35th was a combat engineer batallion. I
lived half a block from the end of the runway of McChord AFB with
three other Army officers in a rented house in Parkland. It was
quite unusual for us all to be there at the same time. We didn't buy
any green bananas or 10 lb sacks of potatoes. This was before LBJ did
the first major commitment of troops to 'Nam. It was a clandestine
spec-ops conflict until mid-'65. Some were in-country, some were
commuters.
I have absolutely no desire for reunion with anyone I served with, if
any of them are still alive. A few probably are, though it was kind of
a high-risk occupation at the time. Some enjoyed it for the rush. I
daresay that some were addicted to adrenaline rush, knowing that it
might be fatal before forty but they'd enjoy one hell of a ride.
I haven't had a nightmare for a decade now.
I do carry a pistol on my daily walks outdoors, and I do pay
attention. I enjoy the friendly greetings of fellow walkers and
bikers on the trail but having a lurker on my six causes me a modicum
of anxiety. I stop so they can catch up and pass, greet with friendly
gesture or engage in conversation if so inclined. I don't like bogeys
on my six. Puts my hand right on the grip of me wee .38 in a pocket
holster.
Gunner Asch
To absent friends.
F. George McDuffee
<gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Who is getting the rest?
>
>How many of them are there?
>
>How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
>credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
========
Came across this item for your collection. ==>Remember
these are just the ones that got caught.<==
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/06/world/asia/06contractor.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
Paul J. Fishman, the United States attorney in New Jersey,
said that over about 10 years, the company overcharged the
government by $15 million to $20 million. �This conduct is
intolerable,� Mr. Fishman said at a news conference in
Newark.
-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Steve W.
I know of quite a few folks who spent their military time on "Temporary
duty Assignments". Most don't talk much about what they did and I don't
ask. Some things are much better kept out of the mind.
I personally would like to thank you for your service time.
Whether you were drafted or voluntary it means you were putting your ass
on the line for others with VERY serious consequences if you didn't
watch out for yourself. People who have never been there really don't
have a clue what it was like. Even folks who served in peace time don't
know what it really means to be on that edge all the time.
--
Steve W.
Don Foreman
wrote:
>>
>
>I know of quite a few folks who spent their military time on "Temporary
>duty Assignments". Most don't talk much about what they did and I don't
>ask. Some things are much better kept out of the mind.
>
>I personally would like to thank you for your service time.
>
>Whether you were drafted or voluntary it means you were putting your ass
>on the line for others with VERY serious consequences if you didn't
>watch out for yourself.
Volunteer. I knew that if I got drafted I'd probably end up in jail
for inability to tolerate some prick lieutenant so I decided that I'd
better become an officer with the prick part being optional. I could
have gotten a critical skills draft deferment as an engineer, but my
dad was a WWII vet. He set the example for me, always led by example.
He served as a chief petty officer with the Seabees on Guam. He was
there during the event later depicted in the 1944 John Wayne film "The
Fighting Seabees". The Seabees are the Navy's equivalent of the Army
Corps of Engineers. I think a CPO was about equivalent in grade to an
Army master sergeant at the time. He was a quiet man, but there was
never any doubt about who was in charge.
My military training and experience served me well during my civilian
career. I learned leadership, duty, accountability,
mission-orientation, and how to build, motivate and lead small teams
of high talent with will to win as in second-place-is-a bodybag rather
than good game rah rah better luck next time.
Don Foreman
wrote:
> People who have never been there really don't
>have a clue what it was like. Even folks who served in peace time don't
>know what it really means to be on that edge all the time.
Are you reading this, Hawke?
I know zip about waves in Hawaii or weightlifting in your gym.
You've said you understand the terror of combat by reading
descriptions of it. That is patently absurd and disrepectful of those
who have done combat at the behest of elected government of either
party.
LBJ, a democrat, drafted and sent a lot of young men to die. It
seemed like a good idea to him at the time.
I went as a competant volunteer and have neverlooked back, but I am
sympathetic to the young men that were drafted, minimally-trained, and
then sent into combat to be maimed or killed by that democratic
regime.
You can't possibly know jack shit about the horror of combat without
experience. It isn't a political science abstraction, it is a combat
sit with a bud bleeding out with incoming fire.
Classrooms are much safer than battlefields. Political abstractions
are academic fodder, corduroy jacket with leather elbow pads
sophistry.
I have some degrees if you care to engage in that pissing contest.
None in poli sci, I'm a freakin' geek scientist with minimal required
liberal arts training. I've learned much more about life by
experience than I ever did in academia. YMMV.
Steve W.
Yeah the ever present shadow of death over your shoulder is one hell of
a motivator to keep you from screwing up.
Being in the Fire Service I understand all to well the concept of
"Unless you have been there and done that, YOU don't understand the
reality of it"
--
Steve W.
Hawke
>> And more than a few Yanks participated in Rhodesias little dust up here
>> and there until 1979...though some decided that enough was enough and
>> simply..left.
>>
>> Feel free to google any questions you might have. Answers are indeed
>> out there. You just wont get them from me.
>>
>> And since Im now finished with this part of this discussion...does Jeff
>> have any comments about his party getting its ass kicked in Phase 1 of
>> the Return of the Nation to the Constitution?
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>
> OK, Show of hands: Who believes any of this?
I vote he's lying.
Hawke
Hawke
>> And more than a few Yanks participated in Rhodesias little dust up here
>> and there until 1979...though some decided that enough was enough and
>> simply..left.
>>
>> Feel free to google any questions you might have. Answers are indeed
>> out there. You just wont get them from me.
>>
>> And since Im now finished with this part of this discussion...does Jeff
>> have any comments about his party getting its ass kicked in Phase 1 of
>> the Return of the Nation to the Constitution?
>>
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>>
>
> I am just thinking, at least let your friends from the 75th know where
> you are. They are probably wondering about you and want to meet you. I
> am sure that quite a few of them are trying to find their long lost
> friends. If I were you, I would not pass up the opportunity to
> reconnect with them!
>
> i
You'll notice that every time you look at what Gummer says there are
things that make your red flags go up. There are always just too many
things that don't add up. Your question is a good example. It doesn't
make sense for a gung ho ex military person to completely disengage does
it? He's got a story for everything. Like, the war was winding down
between 71 and 73 and the outfit he says he was in was leaving the
country. Of course, not him. He was part of some super secret group. He
can't tell you his name in the military? Why not? What's the big secret.
At this point nobody gives a shit about what he did 40 years ago. Way
too much of his stuff fails to pass the smell test. He could clear it
all up very quickly too but for some vague reasons has to keep his
secrets until the grave. I've known people like him in the past. They
construct a fantasy life and after pretending it's true long enough they
start believing it.
From what he writes here it's clear that Gummer doesn't know what he's
talking about. He also comes up with fantastic stories that don't
comport with someone who is a loser living in Taft. With his supposed
skills, connections, and superior abilities how could he wind up where
he is? Too many things just don't add up. I say he's nothing but a liar.
He could prove my view wrong quite easily. Kind of makes you wonder why
he wouldn't? Another red flag?
Hawke
Hawke
>> People who have never been there really don't
>> have a clue what it was like. Even folks who served in peace time don't
>> know what it really means to be on that edge all the time.
>
> Are you reading this, Hawke?
>
> I know zip about waves in Hawaii or weightlifting in your gym.
Do you pretend that you do? I only have a beef with people who are
liars. But I'm just wondering how you know that Gummer has ever actually
been in the military or carried a rifle in a war?
>
> You've said you understand the terror of combat by reading
> descriptions of it. That is patently absurd and disrepectful of those
> who have done combat at the behest of elected government of either
> party.
Sorry, but you're wrong. I have never made any comments about what
combat is like. Why? I've never been in combat. So unlike many folks
around here I don't comment on it one way or another. I said I know a
lot about war and about the military, not combat. They are not the same
thing. When it comes to those subjects I'm like Howard Cosell, who knew
a lot about football but never played the game. One thing I don't do is
pretend I know about things when I don't.
> LBJ, a democrat, drafted and sent a lot of young men to die. It
> seemed like a good idea to him at the time.
>
> I went as a competant volunteer and have neverlooked back, but I am
> sympathetic to the young men that were drafted, minimally-trained, and
> then sent into combat to be maimed or killed by that democratic
> regime.
If you knew as much about war as you do about combat you would know that
is an extremely common situation. In WWI pilots were sent into combat
with 40 hours flying time. They didn't last long. In WWII virtually
untrained an unequipped Russian men were sent to fight the finest army
in the world, the Germans. They didn't last long either. Seeing the the
U.S. is willing to do the same thing is not a big surprise to me. It's
about government and war is one of government's big things, which I do
know something about.
> You can't possibly know jack shit about the horror of combat without
> experience. It isn't a political science abstraction, it is a combat
> sit with a bud bleeding out with incoming fire.
Like I said, I never made any comment like that. I haven't been in
combat but that doesn't mean I have no idea what it's like. I've never
been on Mt. Everest either but I have a good idea what it's like up there.
> Classrooms are much safer than battlefields. Political abstractions
> are academic fodder, corduroy jacket with leather elbow pads
> sophistry.
>
> I have some degrees if you care to engage in that pissing contest.
> None in poli sci, I'm a freakin' geek scientist with minimal required
> liberal arts training. I've learned much more about life by
> experience than I ever did in academia. YMMV.
Pissing contests are unproductive wastes of time so I try to avoid them.
I spent the greater part of my life without a college degree so give me
the credit of having learned most of what I know from living not from
school. But I did get a lot from getting an education. Especially that
in my field I don't run into many people who are as knowledgeable as I
am unless they too have a degree in my area. One thing I have learned in
my life is not to trust people, men particularly. So I don't take much
of what men say as being true, and when it lacks the ring of truth my
bullshit meter goes off, bigtime. The things Gummer claims don't sound
true to me. Things like when he said he could bench press 400 pounds.
Once I see someone is not honest then I really distrust their word. Now
you can trust Gummer all you want. I won't. He strikes me as a first
class bullshitter. I could be wrong and would admit it in a minute. But
until I see some evidence from that guy I'll continue to think he's
making it all up. Because while I can't say I have combat experience I
didn't just fall off the turnip truck either.
Hawke
Hawke
> On 11/2/2010 11:50 PM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
>> Gains from reducing existing departments will be minimal across both
>> State and Federal Governments. Significant savings can only be realized
>> by total elimination of unnecessary government functions and public
>> entitlements. Unfortunately, the existing establishment will not create
>> professional suicide, even with the remarkable elections results we have
>> just witnessed.
>
> a) They are not particularly remarkable to people who study history...
> b) Republicans have never been known for cutting anything.
>
>> Personally I believe much more drastic measures will be
>> required, like the repeal of the 17th amendment and the elimination of
>> the Federal Reserve. Since the odds that these things will happen are
>> slim to none without a revolution. I do not see our nation remaining a
>> significant world power. Our military and International influence is a
>> direct result of our national wealth. We have created a national debt
>> that is NOT repayable without raining on other national interests or
>> drastic inflation, both of which would lead to war and without our
>> national wealth, our nation would most likely be lost. I for one, hope
>> my grim predictions are wrong, but at the moment, I cannot see
>> salvation. We as a nation are not willing to make the required
>> sacrifices or sustain the personal discipline required.
>> Steve
>
> Then don't vote Republican - they certainly have never helped make this
> country a power (at least, not since I've been alive - half century).
>
> Hint: you don't get much out of slaves/serfs, which is where
> corporatocracy leads.
>
>
They never listen. That's the thing about them. When they are told the
fact that wages for working people have remained static for 30 years
they don't believe it. When they are told that their children won't have
as good a life as they did they don't believe it. They don't believe the
facts that they don't like. American middle class people are moving to
the working class and working class people are moving down to the poor
class. All the while the top 5% has gained a tremendous amount of
wealth. It's happening right in front of the eyes of the right wing and
they refuse to see it. The republican party is totally and completely
owned by corporations and the wealthy, just like always. They have been
grinding down everybody else since Reagan was president. You are either
in the upper class or you're having a lousy life. Luckily, I'm from a
family with some wealth so we've been gaining over the last few years.
But for everybody else, they have less than they did ten years ago. You
know, ten years ago, when Bush took over the country. Everybody has
less. It's not his fault though. You people just don't work hard enough.
Hawke
Shall not be infringed
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Shall not be
>
> - Show quoted text -
Give the home back to the bank. Give the cars back to the ban. Stiff
the credit card and cell phone company, then go do it all over again.
ATP
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:ib7jvf$b72$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
His stories are quite incredible, in the most literal sense of the word.
Hawke
> On 11/3/2010 11:39 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:37:34 -0700, Gunner Asch
>> <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Who is getting the rest?
>>>
>>> How many of them are there?
>>>
>>> How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
>>> credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
>> <snip>
>> some more data for your collection:
>>
>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704462704575590642149103202.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
>>
>> <snip>
>> General Motors Co. will drive away from its
>> U.S.-government-financed restructuring with a final gift in
>> its trunk: a tax break that could be worth as much as $45
>> billion.
>> <snip>
>
> Many highly profitable Fortune 500 corporations don't pay any federal
> income tax at all. For example, ExxonMobil earned a record-breaking
> $45.2 billion profit last year, but paid ZERO income tax. Instead, it
> channeled the $15 billion it would have owed to its corporate tax
> shelters overseas. General Electric earned a $10.3 billion profit last
> year, and not only paid ZERO income tax, but we ended up owing them $1.1
> billion in tax credits. Why should GM be any different? Thanks, Congress!!!
This is a perfect example of right wing propaganda. We constantly hear
from right wing pundits that what we need is a tax cut for business.
That it will get the economy going. Steve Forbes says this every time
he's on TV. The claim is that the U.S. corporate tax rate is one of the
world's highest at 35%, which on paper, is true.
Here's the rest of the story. Although the corporate rate for taxes on
U.S. businesses is indeed 35%, that is not what corporations are
actually paying. When you look at what U.S. corporations actually pay to
the government in taxes, it turns out that corporations in the U.S.
actually pay one of the lowest rates in the world. In what corporations
really pay the U.S. is in the top five countries with the lowest
corporate tax rate. Like we all know it's not how much your tax rate is,
it's how much you really have to pay.
But even though in truth our corporations pay one of the lowest rates in
the world the right wing is constantly on the attack trying to get it
even lower. Because most people in business think that corporations
should pay no taxes at all. Funny thing though, in the 1950s when total
revenue for the federal government came from corporations, about 34%,
the country was at it's peak for wealth equality. Now corporations pay
less than 17% of the nation's tax revenue. So it's you who have made up
the difference. Remember that next time you hear a right winger saying
we need a business tax cut.
Hawke
Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
Look who is financing the Teabaggers, the Koch family, founding family of
the John Birch Society, and Dick Armey for starters. The well-meaning
fools cannot look beyond their beliefs and are fail to comprehend the
collars around their neck being guided by the uber-wealthy.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lest We Forget: Dan Quayle
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ignoramus26353
>
>>> People who have never been there really don't
>>> have a clue what it was like. Even folks who served in peace time don't
>>> know what it really means to be on that edge all the time.
>>
>> Are you reading this, Hawke?
>>
>> I know zip about waves in Hawaii or weightlifting in your gym.
>
> Do you pretend that you do? I only have a beef with people who are
> liars. But I'm just wondering how you know that Gummer has ever
> actually been in the military or carried a rifle in a war?
I personaly would not think of Gunner any more, or less, based on just
whether he served or not. I mean, good and bad people served in the
military, and good and bad people did not serve either. But Gunner's
story would benefit from some corroboration. Even if it turns out that
he made it up, I would still credit him for patriotism and
imagination.
>> You've said you understand the terror of combat by reading
>> descriptions of it. That is patently absurd and disrepectful of those
>> who have done combat at the behest of elected government of either
>> party.
>
>
> Sorry, but you're wrong. I have never made any comments about what
> combat is like. Why? I've never been in combat. So unlike many folks
> around here I don't comment on it one way or another. I said I know a
> lot about war and about the military, not combat. They are not the same
> thing. When it comes to those subjects I'm like Howard Cosell, who knew
> a lot about football but never played the game. One thing I don't do is
> pretend I know about things when I don't.
I read a lot about wars and of course I do not know much, I wonder how
I would do, I guess not too well. I do OK under stress, but it is
nothing like a real war situation.
> If you knew as much about war as you do about combat you would know that
> is an extremely common situation. In WWI pilots were sent into combat
> with 40 hours flying time. They didn't last long. In WWII virtually
> untrained an unequipped Russian men were sent to fight the finest army
> in the world, the Germans. They didn't last long either. Seeing the the
> U.S. is willing to do the same thing is not a big surprise to me. It's
> about government and war is one of government's big things, which I do
> know something about.
This happened in 1941 and 1942, as Soviet Union was not ready to fight
on German terms. Things changed in 1943 and Soviet losses, from then
on, were comparable to German losses.
>
>> You can't possibly know jack shit about the horror of combat without
>> experience. It isn't a political science abstraction, it is a combat
>> sit with a bud bleeding out with incoming fire.
>
> Like I said, I never made any comment like that. I haven't been in
> combat but that doesn't mean I have no idea what it's like. I've never
> been on Mt. Everest either but I have a good idea what it's like up there.
I have no clue what it is like to be in both places. I am definitely
grateful to veterans who really were "there". I fully admit that I
cannot comprehend what being in a war is like.
To get started the appreciation of what it is like, if it was up to me, I
would start with picking a cold rainy day, and would go for a 25 mile
walk with a 40 lb packpack.
Come back home and immediately dig a 6x3 foot, 5 ft deep trench. Have a
tasty meal from a couple of MREs. Then have a wonderful night under the
drizzle.
That would be "day 1" of veteran appreciation training.
My grandfather had nightly war nightmares.
i
pyotr filipivich
Nov 2010 18:50:16 -0800 (PST) in misc.survivalism:
So why wait? And why be responsible for what choices you've made?
Don Foreman
<davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>>> People who have never been there really don't
>>> have a clue what it was like. Even folks who served in peace time don't
>>> know what it really means to be on that edge all the time.
>>
>> Are you reading this, Hawke?
>>
>> I know zip about waves in Hawaii or weightlifting in your gym.
>
>Do you pretend that you do? I only have a beef with people who are
>liars. But I'm just wondering how you know that Gummer has ever actually
>been in the military or carried a rifle in a war?
I don't know in terms of documents or corroborating witnesses, but I
suspect that he was. I am not going to elaborate on why I suspect
that. Feel free to believe as you might.
>> You've said you understand the terror of combat by reading
>> descriptions of it. That is patently absurd and disrepectful of those
>> who have done combat at the behest of elected government of either
>> party.
>
>Sorry, but you're wrong. I have never made any comments about what
>combat is like. Why? I've never been in combat. So unlike many folks
>around here I don't comment on it one way or another. I said I know a
>lot about war and about the military, not combat. They are not the same
>thing. When it comes to those subjects I'm like Howard Cosell, who knew
>a lot about football but never played the game.
I seem to have confused war with combat. Mea culpa.
Gunner Asch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.26353.invalid> wrote:
>
>My grandfather had nightly war nightmares.
>
>i
??? ????????? ??????? ? ????????; ??? ??????????? ??????? ????? ????? ?
????? ???????; ??? ????? ? ??????????? ????? ?????; ? ??????? ????? ??
????????? ů, ? ???????, ??? ? ??????????? ??????? ? ???????? ? ??????,
????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ? ??? ?????? ?????????? ???????????. ????? ???
?????! ?????? ??? ??????! "
If I remember that correctly...shrug.
For the burned cities and villages; for the deaths of our children and
our mothers; for the torture and humiliation of our people; I swear
revenge upon the enemyů I swear that I would rather die in battle with
the enemy then surrender myself my people and my country to the Fascist
invaders. Blood for blood! Death for death!
Russian battle oath.
Jon Anderson
>> Sorry, but you're wrong. I have never made any comments about what
>> combat is like. Why? I've never been in combat. So unlike many folks
>> around here I don't comment on it one way or another. I said I know a
>> lot about war and about the military, not combat. They are not the same
>> thing. When it comes to those subjects I'm like Howard Cosell, who knew
>> a lot about football but never played the game.
Knowing a lot about war without knowing anything about combat seems a
lot like knowing a lot about sex while still being a virgin...
Jon
Steve B
"Jon Anderson" <jande...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9VUBo.381745$Yn5.2...@en-nntp-14.dc1.easynews.com...
And yet we have educated people in our society who do exactly that. They
get an education in a field, and never get their hands dirty or break a
nail. Or they teach.
Steve
Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
pyotr filipivich
-0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
LOL.
OTOH, one can learn enough about combat, to know you do not want
to experience it. Same goes for sex.
I'm trying to remember where I read this, but the dialogue is
"Your grandpa never talks about what he did in the war. I'd ask him,
and he get a far away look, and then change the subject. Actually,
Dad did tell me a lot about war."
tschus
pyotr
I figured a rule of thumb, the more they talk about non-combat related
war stories, the higher the probability they were in combat. Of
course, there is a serious difference between combat veterans talking
to those who have been there, and them talking to those who haven't.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Michael A. Terrell
Cosell was a loud mouthed idiot who droned on and on about something
he didn't know much as about something as he claimed.
Michael A. Terrell
I think that the look of horror on the faces of those who didn't see
combat quickly taught them that people who were never in combat would
never understand. I spent a lot of time in the service talking to guys
who had been in combat. The only ones who would talk about combat were
those who needed help, but were afraid to talk to a military doctor or
someone higher up the chain of command. I was simply a non judgmental
friend with a level head.
Larry Jaques
If you guys can't read "troll" in this guy by now, y'all have cranial
rectal inversion syndrome. Crikey!
PDFTFT
--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck
Don Foreman
Some vets in rural MN are beginning to tell their stories, though some
are choosing to remain mum.
Hawke
>> Do you pretend that you do? I only have a beef with people who are
>> liars. But I'm just wondering how you know that Gummer has ever
>> actually been in the military or carried a rifle in a war?
>
> I personaly would not think of Gunner any more, or less, based on just
> whether he served or not. I mean, good and bad people served in the
> military, and good and bad people did not serve either. But Gunner's
> story would benefit from some corroboration. Even if it turns out that
> he made it up, I would still credit him for patriotism and
> imagination.
That's very generous of you. Most people, if they found out that they
were being lied to repeatedly would not take so kindly to the liar. Ever
hear the term tarred and feathered? Inveterate liars are not treated
well in my experience. You're right, all Gummer would have to do is
corroborate some of his claims but he tells one fantastic story after
another and expects people to believe them based on nothing but his
word. I don't know anyone who thinks like that. Would you believe I
climbed Mt. Everest just because I said I did? You would want some
proof. Gummer never proves anything.
>>> You've said you understand the terror of combat by reading
>>> descriptions of it. That is patently absurd and disrepectful of those
>>> who have done combat at the behest of elected government of either
>>> party.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, but you're wrong. I have never made any comments about what
>> combat is like. Why? I've never been in combat. So unlike many folks
>> around here I don't comment on it one way or another. I said I know a
>> lot about war and about the military, not combat. They are not the same
>> thing. When it comes to those subjects I'm like Howard Cosell, who knew
>> a lot about football but never played the game. One thing I don't do is
>> pretend I know about things when I don't.
>
> I read a lot about wars and of course I do not know much, I wonder how
> I would do, I guess not too well. I do OK under stress, but it is
> nothing like a real war situation.
That's the thing about being in a war I do know. Nobody knows how they
will do until they face it for real. But a lot of men have fought in
wars over the centuries. Most of them did their part and got on with
their lives after the experience.
>> If you knew as much about war as you do about combat you would know that
>> is an extremely common situation. In WWI pilots were sent into combat
>> with 40 hours flying time. They didn't last long. In WWII virtually
>> untrained an unequipped Russian men were sent to fight the finest army
>> in the world, the Germans. They didn't last long either. Seeing the the
>> U.S. is willing to do the same thing is not a big surprise to me. It's
>> about government and war is one of government's big things, which I do
>> know something about.
>
> This happened in 1941 and 1942, as Soviet Union was not ready to fight
> on German terms. Things changed in 1943 and Soviet losses, from then
> on, were comparable to German losses.
That's true. In fact, in the last year of the war the losses switched
around from the Russians losing more men to the Germans losing the most
men. But my point is that governments frequently send out their armies
ill trained, poorly led, badly equipped, and into a slaughter. This
isn't the fault of the troops. It's the fault of the leaders and is why
I say one should avoid being in any war.
>>> You can't possibly know jack shit about the horror of combat without
>>> experience. It isn't a political science abstraction, it is a combat
>>> sit with a bud bleeding out with incoming fire.
>>
>> Like I said, I never made any comment like that. I haven't been in
>> combat but that doesn't mean I have no idea what it's like. I've never
>> been on Mt. Everest either but I have a good idea what it's like up there.
>
> I have no clue what it is like to be in both places. I am definitely
> grateful to veterans who really were "there". I fully admit that I
> cannot comprehend what being in a war is like.
It's the 21st century now. I have seen real videos of people climbing
Everest. I've heard people talking on the phone from on Everest. I've
been in the mountains myself and have experienced 30 below temperatures.
So while I haven't been to Everest I think I have a pretty good idea
what it's like. I've seen and read so many books and personal accounts,
and even seen real war videos, that even though I haven't been in a war
I do think I have a good idea what it's like. Besides that, I think that
if all kinds of other guys have done it I'm pretty sure that I could
too. You don't have to be a superman to be in a war. You don't even have
to be a man. In fact, the female snipers in the Soviet army are
legendary for their fighting ability. So don't think most people can't
handle war. Wars are fought by ordinary men for the most part. If you
really want to see what war is like see the video "Restrepo". It
documents the day to day fighting that went on in Afghanistan of a unit
that was attacked almost every day. No point of view to it. Just what
went on and that's it.
> To get started the appreciation of what it is like, if it was up to me, I
> would start with picking a cold rainy day, and would go for a 25 mile
> walk with a 40 lb packpack.
>
> Come back home and immediately dig a 6x3 foot, 5 ft deep trench. Have a
> tasty meal from a couple of MREs. Then have a wonderful night under the
> drizzle.
>
> That would be "day 1" of veteran appreciation training.
>
> My grandfather had nightly war nightmares.
>
> i
War has changed. In today's war you might be a female helicopter pilot.
My Dad was a medic in WWII. He was in Europe in 1944-45 and lived like
what you described. Living in holes in the ground in below freezing
temps. It had to suck. The Roman army had it tough too. On Roman army
had to come back to Italy from the German area. They were in a hurry so
they marched for forty straight days, twenty miles a day. That's a walk
of 800 miles in 40 days. That had to suck. The main thing I know about
war is that if you are smart you don't get involved in one.
Hawke
Hawke
If you think about it for a minute I'm sure you can understand how
someone can know a great deal about "war" but never personally
experienced combat. Just like there are many men who have gone to war
and have never actually done any fighting. Could someone who was in a
war but not in combat know anything about war? Lots of men have gone
into the military, trained to fight, but never experienced combat. I
don't think that you can say they know nothing about war though.
Hawke
Hawke
> Look who is financing the Teabaggers, the Koch family, founding family of
> the John Birch Society, and Dick Armey for starters. The well-meaning
> fools cannot look beyond their beliefs and are fail to comprehend the
> collars around their neck being guided by the uber-wealthy.
>
Yeah. It's the downfall of democracy. If the people are so gullible they
can be deceived by the powerful time and time again then you won't have
much of a country. In California we have the initiative process and we
get to vote on all kinds of issues. All you have to do is look at the
voter guide and it tells you what groups support which initiative and
how much they spent. That's about all you need to know. When a bunch of
businesses spend millions you know who the law is going to help. So all
you do is look at who is the underdog and you can tell how to vote on
the initiative.
Unfortunately, it's not that easy for the rest of the political system.
It's difficult for the average person to know what is really going on.
The uber rich are very good at fooling the masses. If you even know who
Dick Armey or the Kock brothers are then you probably know what is going
on. But most people never heard of them. Which proves the saying that
you can fool most of the people most of the time. The rich and their
henchmen, the republicans, are proving that again and again.
Hawke
Hawke
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Shall not be
Businesses get to go bankrupt and walk away from their debts when they
make irresponsible choices, don't they? Why shouldn't the public have
the same right?
Hawke
Shall not be infringed
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Shall not be
People who have a contract and CAN make their payments are walking
away. I say jail them.
Hawke
> "Jon Anderson"<jande...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:9VUBo.381745$Yn5.2...@en-nntp-14.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 18:23:46 -0800, Hawke
>>
>>>> Sorry, but you're wrong. I have never made any comments about what
>>>> combat is like. Why? I've never been in combat. So unlike many folks
>>>> around here I don't comment on it one way or another. I said I know a
>>>> lot about war and about the military, not combat. They are not the same
>>>> thing. When it comes to those subjects I'm like Howard Cosell, who knew
>>>> a lot about football but never played the game.
>>
>> Knowing a lot about war without knowing anything about combat seems a lot
>> like knowing a lot about sex while still being a virgin...
>>
>>
>> Jon
>
> And yet we have educated people in our society who do exactly that. They
> get an education in a field, and never get their hands dirty or break a
> nail. Or they teach.
So who do you think knows more about sex? Dr. Ruth or a street prostitute?
Hawke
pyotr filipivich
13:34:51 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Yah got me. I dunno, I don't think I wanna know. I do know, that
a few years ago, we found his scrapbook - with the citations. His
response? "What a load of hooey! Makes it sound like I did something
dangerous!" Well Dad, that's why it was the Bronze star with a V for
Valor.
tschus
pyotr
pyotr filipivich
23:12:04 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 09:55:00 -0800, pyotr filipivich
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Jon Anderson <jande...@comcast.net> on Mon, 08 Nov 2010 07:44:12
>>-0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>> On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 18:23:46 -0800, Hawke
>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but you're wrong. I have never made any comments about what
>>>>> combat is like. Why? I've never been in combat. So unlike many folks
>>>>> around here I don't comment on it one way or another. I said I know a
>>>>> lot about war and about the military, not combat. They are not the same
>>>>> thing. When it comes to those subjects I'm like Howard Cosell, who knew
>>>>> a lot about football but never played the game.
>>>
>>>Knowing a lot about war without knowing anything about combat seems a
>>>lot like knowing a lot about sex while still being a virgin...
>>
>> LOL.
>>
>> OTOH, one can learn enough about combat, to know you do not want
>>to experience it. Same goes for sex.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember where I read this, but the dialogue is
>>"Your grandpa never talks about what he did in the war. I'd ask him,
>>and he get a far away look, and then change the subject. Actually,
>>Dad did tell me a lot about war."
>>I figured a rule of thumb, the more they talk about non-combat related
>>war stories, the higher the probability they were in combat. Of
>>course, there is a serious difference between combat veterans talking
>>to those who have been there, and them talking to those who haven't.
>
>Some vets in rural MN are beginning to tell their stories, though some
>are choosing to remain mum.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2d4449h
there's a difference between telling their stories, and "telling
war stories." War Stories (or Sea stories or any other fairy tale
which begins "No Shit, there I was" instead of "Once upon a time...")
usually have an Important Life Lesson for listeners. When you "talk
story" to use an expression, you are telling the tale of how "we"/I
came to be here.
Back in '04, listening to Kerry talk about his Swift Boat Service,
I was reminded of the guy with the One Story, who would talk your ear
off. Usually you find them in the bar at the VFW hall, or the Club
near the office, talking about their Glory Day. I was not impressed.
But the guy who says "I got the letter from Tommy's wife. He
passed on. Hell of a medic. He got captured, and while he was in the
POW camp, his Aunt sent him a post card 'I knew you would wind up
behind bars.'. Hell of a guy." Him I listen, too.
And when my Dad turned 80, I got him a little lapel pin Combat
Infantry Badge. He's chattering away opening presents "Seventy-nine's
not a bad age, eighty just sounds old ..." till that one. And I done
good.
Bozhimoi, I miss my old man.
tschus
pyotr
Michael A. Terrell
A lot of them don't want to re live what they went through. For any
one. he did his job, and made it home alive. That is what is important
to him.
All the guys I served with who saw combat had a similar view. The
Veterans I know today will talk about being in the service, but not in
combat.
rangerssuck
> On 11/8/2010 8:09 AM, Steve B wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
And, to bring that back on to the off topic, Dr. Ruth fought in the
Israeli army in 1948. A friend of mine was in her unit.
ATP
"Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b17ec905-6e37-4b8a...@t13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
*People who have a contract and CAN make their *payments are walking
*away. I say jail them.
I agree. Same for able bodied deadbeats.
Jeff M
The Mortgage Brokers Association made a strategic default on its own
$75M mortgage on its headquarters building. Many businesses have done
the same. It's a standard business practice when commercial real
property values decline, and it happens all the time.
But when it's individual homeowners who are strategically defaulting,
only then do commercial home mortgage lenders suddenly discover and try
to impose some supposed moral or ethical objection to what has always
been their own standard business practice.
More homeowners ought to consider strategic defaults. It doesn't make
economic sense to pay more for a house than it's worth. The banksters
can foreclose, if they want, or do what they do for their big commercial
customers - write down and refinance.
Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
Like Gummer?
According to his postings the cumulative total his family has availed
itself of is multiple millions of dollars in medical costs.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Republicans vs. Democrats : Heartless vs. Spineless
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes
>I don't know in terms of documents or corroborating witnesses, but I
>suspect that he was. I am not going to elaborate on why I suspect
>that. Feel free to believe as you might.
Calling a man a liar is a serious thing. I've run into a number of people and their
stories where I really wanted to call bullshit but the counter side is if I am wrong,
I've just ruined my credibility. Those were not situations related to military service to
frame my comments properly.
I also suspect, that if you considered Gunner a fraud, you would bore in with your
considerable analytical skills and tear his stories a part.
So lets get back to metalworking, something Gunner also knows a bit about.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Ignoramus32694
> Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>I don't know in terms of documents or corroborating witnesses, but I
>>suspect that he was. I am not going to elaborate on why I suspect
>>that. Feel free to believe as you might.
>
> Calling a man a liar is a serious thing. I've run into a number of
> people and their stories where I really wanted to call bullshit but
> the counter side is if I am wrong, I've just ruined my credibility.
> Those were not situations related to military service to frame my
> comments properly.
>
> I also suspect, that if you considered Gunner a fraud, you would bore in with your
> considerable analytical skills and tear his stories a part.
>
> So lets get back to metalworking, something Gunner also knows a bit about.
>
What we have is a very unusual story. Gunner says that he was enlisted
into the military under a false name, underage, has no records of his
service, no discharge papers, does not want to see those who served
with him, and does not say under what name he served.
Is it possible that he really did serve? It is possible. Would I
believe this sort of thing automatically, just because I heard it
here? Of course no. The fact that I cannot believe it only says
something about me, and is not, as such, disparaging about Gunner.
I, of course, have no proof that he did not serve (such as public
records from 1970 showing him as being somewhere else, getting many
speeding tickets over many months or something of the sort), and so I
cannot be sure either way.
I have no idea what makes Don Foreman believe Gunner, but it hopefully
is something very convincing.
Again, I am not saying that I somehow know that Gunner made his
military story up, because I do not know. All I am saying is that it
would need some corroboration, because it is so unusual.
I am not a veteran and I do not have a personal stake in this story,
such as some Navy seals who look out for fake Navy seals with zeal,
etc. I would not really think less of Gunner if it turned out that he
made the story up. Even if it turns out that he is unable to prove his
service, it would be cool with me.
i
Michael A. Terrell
Ignoramus32694 wrote:
>
> What we have is a very unusual story. Gunner says that he was enlisted
> into the military under a false name, underage, has no records of his
> service, no discharge papers, does not want to see those who served
> with him, and does not say under what name he served.
Sigh. As usual, your ignorance shines through. I recently lost a
friend who was underage when W.W.II started. He did the same thing, with
the help of a recruiter. He was a ham radio operator, and they needed
people to work in communications. He went into the Navy and was a radio
operator all through W.W.II. After his discharge, he worked as a radio
operator for a large shipping company, aboard various cargo ships.
As far as the name he served under it's really none of your damn
business, any more than him knowing your Social Security number and
having access to all your bank information. Giving that name could put
his life at risk, as well.
From time to time it takes the local Veteran's groups time to find
someone's records because of their having served under another name.
That leaves their body waiting in a funeral home until the records are
straightened out, for a proper burial at a military cemetery.
Since you never served, and don't know a damn thing about how things
worked in the military you continue to make a bigger fool of yourself.
Ignoramus32694
OK, I will shut up.
i
Steve W.
> On 2010-11-09, Wes <ClutchAtL...@Gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know in terms of documents or corroborating witnesses, but I
>>> suspect that he was. I am not going to elaborate on why I suspect
>>> that. Feel free to believe as you might.
>> Calling a man a liar is a serious thing. I've run into a number of
>> people and their stories where I really wanted to call bullshit but
>> the counter side is if I am wrong, I've just ruined my credibility.
>> Those were not situations related to military service to frame my
>> comments properly.
>>
>> I also suspect, that if you considered Gunner a fraud, you would bore in with your
>> considerable analytical skills and tear his stories a part.
>>
>> So lets get back to metalworking, something Gunner also knows a bit about.
>>
>
>
> What we have is a very unusual story. Gunner says that he was enlisted
> into the military under a false name, underage, has no records of his
> service, no discharge papers, does not want to see those who served
> with him, and does not say under what name he served.
My FIL served in the Army during WWII.
BUT he has NO paperwork, because he tossed it when he got out.
ALL his records were destroyed in the fire that wiped out a LOT of
service records.
He doesn't even remember most of the people he served with and doesn't
want to see the ones he did serve with.
His only "proof" that he served is a picture of him taken in uniform.
>
> Is it possible that he really did serve? It is possible. Would I
> believe this sort of thing automatically, just because I heard it
> here? Of course no. The fact that I cannot believe it only says
> something about me, and is not, as such, disparaging about Gunner.
>
> I, of course, have no proof that he did not serve (such as public
> records from 1970 showing him as being somewhere else, getting many
> speeding tickets over many months or something of the sort), and so I
> cannot be sure either way.
>
> I have no idea what makes Don Foreman believe Gunner, but it hopefully
> is something very convincing.
>
> Again, I am not saying that I somehow know that Gunner made his
> military story up, because I do not know. All I am saying is that it
> would need some corroboration, because it is so unusual.
Not really. You would have to know about the time period. It was VERY
common for the same type of thing to happen during WWII.
There were more than a few underage folks who served in Korea (I have an
uncle who was 15 when he joined up, they were desperate for men so they
looked the other way)
I know of one person who did basically the same thing as Gunner did
during 'Nam. He did it because the Marines offered a better chance than
the area in the city that he came from.
In Jims case he had a fake birth certificate made up with a different
name. He joined up at 17 and served 2 full and 1 partial tour (came home
about 3 months into the third tour with a serious wound and missing most
of a hand and one eye gone).
His records may still exist but not under his real name.
The crew he served with is mostly dead (killed at the same time he was
wounded) and he doesn't like to talk about his time there either.
Mainly because of the BS that folks tend to heap on about him being
there in the first place.
>
> I am not a veteran and I do not have a personal stake in this story,
> such as some Navy seals who look out for fake Navy seals with zeal,
> etc. I would not really think less of Gunner if it turned out that he
> made the story up. Even if it turns out that he is unable to prove his
> service, it would be cool with me.
Do I believe Gunner served. Yes I do. Not because of anyone else but
because of some of what he has said and a lot of what he hasn't said.
Don Foreman
I said I wouldn't elaborate, but now I feel like I must.
I was sniffing at this long before Gunner-bashing became such a
popular activity on RCM because I too saw some discrepancies in his
various narratives. My bullshit detector works just fine, as do the
hackles on the back of my neck. That indicated to me that there are
some things he intends to keep concealed, but that doesn't mean that
his entire story is contrived bullshit.
I'm a research puke. Research pukes are sorta like detectives of
science. Jumping to conclusions based on insufficent data usually
results in error, aside from flashes of intuition from singularly
brilliant ... well, nevermind that. <G>
Details and minutiae indicate to me that he either was there and did
that or he is one hell of a researcher and reader, because I've not
caught a single clinker in his notes on military life and service.
Sparse records of military service are not nearly as unusual as some
might think. I have a DD214 but there is little or no other record
of my activities while in service. My 201 file may be unfindably
buried in a file cabinet in St. Louis, but I reviewed my 201 file
shortly before separation. It contained officer efficiency reports,
grades and honors from various military training courses and schools,
medical records, copies of vague TDY orders, marital status, will,
blood type, religious preference ... and about zilch about what I'd
actually been doing most of the time.
An enlisted man serving under a false name who got crosswise with
certain agencies would have been a perfect patsy for ops gone bad in
SEA, and/or for actions that might be viewed as atrocities later by
those who weren't there and couldn't possibly judge in context. Westy
was far more a politician than a soldier's general. A lot of shameful
shit by the Citizens In Action went down on his watch.
DA is notorious for discharging vets with PTSD etc as "psychologically
unfit for service" or some such bullshit other than honorable
discharge, to avoid VA treatment costs. This is going on to this
day with men and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. It's
disgraceful.
I can see discrepancies in Gunner's narratives as well as anyone else,
perhaps better than most. I really don't give a shit.
Those that keep attacking him seem to me to be like the punks that
would rip wings off of flies, torture kittens, or attack a vet
anonymously (and therefore cowardly) on usenet, like those that spat
on returning vets from 'Nam and survived that dispicable behavior only
by the remarkable forbearance of the spat upon.
I've ripped him a new one a few times about his strident expression of
viewpoints I disagreed with. I must say he responded respectfully
and responsively. Matter of fact, my viewpoint on gun rights and
ownership has moved toward his over the past decade or so. I was
never anti-gun though Gunner almost made me so back in the day.
I think he is doing a bit of not-so-artful dodging, but my unprovable
opinion is that he is a bona fide U.S. Army combat vet. That's all
anyone needs to know.
Gunner, you really need to quit smokin', right now, totally and
forever, set the example if you're surrounded by smokers, no excuses
or you don't have a hair on your ass worth saving.
Jeff R.
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:9hbkd6tgrg9an7u5f...@4ax.com...
<snip>
> I think he is doing a bit of not-so-artful dodging, but my unprovable
> opinion is that he is a bona fide U.S. Army combat vet. That's all
> anyone needs to know.
>
> Gunner, you really need to quit smokin', right now, totally and
> forever, set the example if you're surrounded by smokers, no excuses
> or you don't have a hair on your ass worth saving.
Nice comment, Don.
Perhaps you can provide some insight for me on why he is seeking to
perpetuate this "Great Cull" nonsense. I just don't see what's in it for
him.
Is he just playing with the noobs? Does he really think that anyone would
believe his fantasy?
Is he trying to frighten people? (Again, how could anyone believe such pap?)
Doesn't he see how silly it makes him look? Hell, not "silly". Downright
disgusting and amoral.
I just don't get it. (obviously). Why does he do it?
--
Jeff R.
Rich Grise
>
> I just don't get it. (obviously). Why does he do it?
>
self-hatred probably figures into it.
I think he's going to be terribly surprised as to just who, exactly,
gets "culled."
Thanks,
Rich
dca...@krl.org
> Perhaps you can provide some insight for me on why he is seeking to
> perpetuate this "Great Cull" nonsense. I just don't see what's in it for
> him.
>
> Is he just playing with the noobs? Does he really think that anyone would
> believe his fantasy?
>
> Is he trying to frighten people? (Again, how could anyone believe such pap?)
>
> Doesn't he see how silly it makes him look? Hell, not "silly". Downright
> disgusting and amoral.
>
> I just don't get it. (obviously). Why does he do it?
>
Have you figured out why Cliff starts as many threads as he does? And
why he cross posts to so many groups? Do you see what is in it for
Cliff? Does he really think that anyone believes the stuff he posts?
Do you think Cliff sees how silly it makes him look.
I think that Gunner and Cliff are essentially alike. They just do it
to provoke people.
Dan
> --
> Jeff R.
Steve B
<dca...@krl.org> wrote in message
news:71123a8e-b227-430e...@26g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
Dan
> --
> Jeff R.
Time will tell. Time will tell.
F. George McDuffee
<gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Who is getting the rest?
>
>How many of them are there?
>
>How much of it is indirect and off the books, by way of exemptions,
>credits, subsidies, pure corruption, etc?
========
Some more items for your scrapbook.
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a5OZb5VE98ac&pos=10
Note that most of the firms involved are the same ones that
got billions of taxpayer dollars via TARP and continue to
get billions through the FRB.
-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Shall not be infringed
> On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 12:53:59 -0500, "ATP" <walter_mun...@unforgiven.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in
Is he late on his house payment?
Shall not be infringed
> On 11/9/2010 11:53 AM, ATP wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
It's unethical.
Hawke
It's real simple. People have caught Gummer telling lies in the past.
Okay, he's been caught before. You can look it up if you want but I have
read posts from people who have caught him making stuff up. Then you add
on to it all the stories he tells that sound really fishy. When you're
done you have a guy who you can't trust what he says. That's all. You
just don't know when he's being truthful or when he's making shit up.
Which is why I just don't believe what he says. Especially when he said
one time he could bench press 400 pounds. I know that's a crock of shit.
So believe anything you want. I'm just saying after hearing this guy for
years I don't believe him, ever.
Hawke
Don Foreman
>
>"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
>news:9hbkd6tgrg9an7u5f...@4ax.com...
>Nice comment, Don.
>Perhaps you can provide some insight for me on why he is seeking to
>perpetuate this "Great Cull" nonsense. I just don't see what's in it for
>him.
>
>Is he just playing with the noobs? Does he really think that anyone would
>believe his fantasy?
>
>Is he trying to frighten people? (Again, how could anyone believe such pap?)
>
>Doesn't he see how silly it makes him look? Hell, not "silly". Downright
>disgusting and amoral.
>
>I just don't get it. (obviously). Why does he do it?
The cull stuff presents an interesting enigma, doesn't it!
It might be a troll.
He might really be that damaged and nuts. Is he as nuts as Ira Hayes
was after Iwo Jima? Evaluating that would require face time. I'd
like face time with Gunner but I'm not about to travel to Taft, CA.
That could change if Mary makes me a widower but that isn't in the
cards quite yet. Today she mentioned that she has a happy mind and
heart, and it's quite evident that it's so.
Armed revolt of the peasants is not entirely unthinkable. This country
was formed by such a revolt. Arms and ammunition sales and prices
have skyrocketed since the election of 2008. The tea party was
unquestionably a factor in the 2010 election. There clearly is
dissatisfaction with the gummint extant among the people, and some are
quite angry.
A bit of thought and processing of other Gunner history (as narrated
by himself in bits and snatches over more than a decade) untangles
this clearly enough for me, but only as opinion falling short of
conclusive argument.
Your questions seem to be more like veiled assertions since you
suggest answers.
Have fun! Gunnerbashing does seem to appeal to some, and he obviously
invites it.
Anonymous Wayne, wmbjk, dedicated Gunnerbasher, where art thou?
dca...@krl.org
> So believe anything you want. I'm just saying after hearing this guy for
> years I don't believe him, ever.
>
> Hawke
What is the word for someone who has already made up their mind? Oh
yes, Prejudiced.
Dan
Jeff M
It' not unethical in the least. The contract contains default
provisions and contemplates that possibility from its inception, and
that risk is already reflected in the price structure of the loan, which
is also collateralized. The lender is a sophisticated and experienced
business entity that is in a superior bargaining position to the home
buyer, and thus is fully able to assess and adequately protect itself
from the risk of default in setting the terms of the loan. Defaults are
a known and foreseeable risk of the lender's business and lenders
routinely deal with strategic and other types of defaults, and expect to
routinely renegotiate many long term loans at some point before the
expiration of the term, especially with commercial borrowers.
Steve B
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
I believe the running elk has not yet reached the end of its rope. The
change of Congresscritters was a plus, but time will tell if it was only an
changing of foxes to guard the henhouse. Inflation is coming due to
increased printing of money. China is pissed at us for this. Gas prices
will rise due to tree huggers and money valuation. The pocketbooks is
strained in most households. When things start to pop, and we have one
frustrated angry person here and there clinging to their guns and bibles
joining together, we may see organized protests. I'm really surprised that
we haven't seen more visible white supremacist activity and "man caused
disasters." They certainly have the capability, ala OK City.
Time will tell. Time will tell.
Neville Chamberlain had a large following. Everybody can't be right, so
that leaves some who were wrong.
Steve
Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
Steve B
<dca...@krl.org> wrote in message
news:7d241d99-a82b-4fe9...@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
Dan
Sorry, Dan, I have chickenhawke roundfiled, so will respond to you.
At the end of the Vietnam war, lots of my friends were coming home talking
about the one world conspiracy, Bilderbergers, the tri-lateralist comission,
government surveillence, all sorts of things. They were promoting moving up
into the mountains, self-sustinence, stockpiling of ammunition and supplies.
What a bunch of nuts, I thought. Just PTSD.
Over time, I have come to agree with some of their views, and some of them
were spot on.
Hello, people. We're at a point where the government is telling us what
kind of light bulbs we can use based on false science. That we can't have
toys in our kids Happy Meals, and that we can't cut the fire hazards around
our houses because of some small critter. Government is way over the line
of what a govenment is supposed to do, and now the Constitution is being
viewed by judges as an archaeological artifact, not a directive. And if we
continue on this liberal socialist path, we will go the way of all the great
civilizations before us. But maybe that is in the cosmic design, for all
things to have a life span, then self destruct.
It's not coming. It's here.