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High Gas Prices
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jon_banquer
Oct 8, 2012, 8:16:03 PM10/8/12
to
In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
could cause Obama to lose the election.
Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
could cause Obama to lose the election.
PrecisionmachinisT
Oct 8, 2012, 8:33:12 PM10/8/12
to
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
jon_banquer
Oct 8, 2012, 8:36:41 PM10/8/12
to
On Oct 8, 5:33 pm, "PrecisionmachinisT" <123machin...@notmail.com>
wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
a corrupt Wall Street where something like this might actually be
possible.
wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
> > In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> Romney is buying up all the gasoline and he's stashing it in the Caymans.
It's actually getting to the point with a corrupt two party system and
> > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> Romney is buying up all the gasoline and he's stashing it in the Caymans.
a corrupt Wall Street where something like this might actually be
possible.
vinny
Oct 8, 2012, 8:37:02 PM10/8/12
to
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
jon_banquer
Oct 8, 2012, 8:47:09 PM10/8/12
to
On Oct 8, 5:38 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/valero-halts-calif-gasoline-sales-as-prices-jump-2012-10-04?link=MW_latest_news
"This is a serious problem," said Richard Hastings, macroeconomy
strategist at Global Hunter Securities. "Five dollars a gallon is a
plausible concept at this point, and it won't be $5 at the airport
filling station--it will be all over the place."
As Valero and possibly other refiners leaving the spot market,
independent gas stations not holding supply contracts will start
shutting down after their fuel runs out, said Avery Ash, manager of
regulatory affairs at motorist trade group American Automobile
Association.
"The stations that don't have contracts from the major retailers--the
mom-and-pop station and Costcos--may decide not to sell gasoline at
this point," Mr. Ash said. "With spot prices that are well north of $4
a gallon, you're needing to sell retail gasoline near that $5 mark,
and they may not see the point of doing that."
The situation could last for weeks until West Coast refineries return
to normal production rates, Mr. Ash said."
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
"This is a serious problem," said Richard Hastings, macroeconomy
strategist at Global Hunter Securities. "Five dollars a gallon is a
plausible concept at this point, and it won't be $5 at the airport
filling station--it will be all over the place."
As Valero and possibly other refiners leaving the spot market,
independent gas stations not holding supply contracts will start
shutting down after their fuel runs out, said Avery Ash, manager of
regulatory affairs at motorist trade group American Automobile
Association.
"The stations that don't have contracts from the major retailers--the
mom-and-pop station and Costcos--may decide not to sell gasoline at
this point," Mr. Ash said. "With spot prices that are well north of $4
a gallon, you're needing to sell retail gasoline near that $5 mark,
and they may not see the point of doing that."
The situation could last for weeks until West Coast refineries return
to normal production rates, Mr. Ash said."
Stormin Mormon
Oct 8, 2012, 8:49:43 PM10/8/12
to
NYS, over four bucks.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"vinny" <frigg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k4vrlo$vq3$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"vinny" <frigg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k4vrlo$vq3$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
jon_banquer
Oct 8, 2012, 8:52:36 PM10/8/12
to
On Oct 8, 5:38 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2012/10/05/California-has-short-term-gasoline-crisis/UPI-68801349433440/
Michael A. Terrell
Oct 8, 2012, 9:01:34 PM10/8/12
to
Michael A. Terrell
Oct 8, 2012, 9:09:10 PM10/8/12
to
Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> NYS, over four bucks.
$3.89 for 'Regular' in Central Florida.
F. George McDuffee
Oct 8, 2012, 11:04:16 PM10/8/12
to
1st point -- Why are you wasting time and energy posting to
a newsgroup? If you feel a need to vent do it where it
might do some good, i.e. to your congressional
representatives.
2nd point -- The people of California are getting "Enroned"
again by a contrived shortage.
Below find the webmail I sent my congressmen on this topic.
Feel free to use all, any or none of it. If you don't know
who your congressmen are, or are too cheap to buy a stamp
(like I am), they can be identified, and almost all have
webmail at
house.gov and senate.gov. To make nagging easier I suggest
bookmarking their webmail sites in your browser.
Suggestion: compose your email off line, spell/grammer
check, and paste to the web mail message window.
===== start of memo to congress =====
TO:
Senator Pat Roberts
Senator Jim Moran
Representative Mike Pompeo
From:
George McDuffee
Date:
07 Oct 2012
Subject:
The “free market” is a market, *NOT* a suicide pact.
RE:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-04/gasoline-surges-as-refinery-shutdowns-reduce-u-dot-s-dot-supply
<snip>
Gasoline surged as refinery and pipeline shutdowns increased
concern that supplies aren’t adequate to meet demand.
<snip>
It is clear the citizens of California are again being
“Enroned” or price gouged through artificial shortages
resulting from a supplier conspiracy. In 2000-2001 it was a
contrived electricity shortage [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis ]
and today it is a contrived gasoline shortage, created by
faux refinery damage and pseudo pipeline impairment,
apparently resulting from intentional “accidents” or
self-sabotage.
Such blatant displays of corporate greed and hubris cannot
be tolerated, and you are strongly urged to direct the
Federal Trade Commission, the Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission, and law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and
IRS to immediately investigate these “shortages,” pending
Congressional hearings. Of the utmost importance is the
seizure and preservation of all letters, memos, notes,
emails, tweets, phone recordings, phone logs, trip
itineraries, etc. for Congressional and grand jury review.
While on the surface this may appear to be a state problem,
which should be dealt with by the state of California, the
reality is the likely conspirators are supranational
corporations, for the most part beyond the reach of the
state agencies, and/or entities/operations located outside
the state, such as the pipelines. Thus it is essential the
full investigative and legal resources of the Federal
government be used. It is suggested this investigation
should assume organized and ongoing criminal activity from
the start, thus justifying the application of the RICO
statutes and methodology, e.g. wire taps, bank record/asset
review, use of confidential informants, involuntary grand
jury testimony, sealed indictments, etc.
While it is too late to prevent severe economic disruption
in California and the adjacent states from this contrived
gasoline shortage, to prevent any repetition of this
extortion and gross abuse of market position, it is
suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
an excess of “coincidences” have occurred. Another example
of possible proactive/preventative legislation in this
particular case would be a criminal statute with possible
prison time and large [individual not corporate] fines for
taking more than one major refinery in a market area
off-line for “turnaround” at a time. Other than restricting
the supply of distillate fuels in that market, there is no
rationale for doing so. Indeed, in many cases the
availability of specialty technicians and equipment, needed
for a refinery “turnaround,” means only one area refinery
can be serviced at a time, no matter how many refineries may
be shut down.
===== end of memo to congress =====
--
Unka' George
"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"
-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 12:04:12 AM10/9/12
to
On Oct 8, 8:04 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
> RE:http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-04/gasoline-surges-as-refine...
Why are you wasting time and energy reading what I post to a newsgroup
and responding? :P
"The people of California are getting "Enroned" again by a contrived
shortage."
I agree.
"The free market is a market, *NOT* a suicide pact."
This kind or increase is what happens when you remove the necessary
government regulation.
Agree with the points in your letter but think it will fall on deaf
ears. Do any of your Kansas congressman or senators get this pissed
off at hearings and rip shit bags like this a new asshole? Or are they
worthless pussies like most congressman and senators?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUJIG3JNPk0
"Why are you wasting time and energy posting to a newsgroup?"
I enjoy doing so.
Why are you wasting time and energy reading what I post to a newsgroup
and responding? :P
"The people of California are getting "Enroned" again by a contrived
shortage."
"The free market is a market, *NOT* a suicide pact."
government regulation.
Agree with the points in your letter but think it will fall on deaf
ears. Do any of your Kansas congressman or senators get this pissed
off at hearings and rip shit bags like this a new asshole? Or are they
worthless pussies like most congressman and senators?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUJIG3JNPk0
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 12:04:48 AM10/9/12
to
On Oct 8, 6:01 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
> > > In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> > > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> > Romney is buying up all the gasoline and he's stashing it in the Caymans.
>
> Your stupidity knows no bounds.
Michael Terrell obviously is looking in the mirror again.
> > > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> > Romney is buying up all the gasoline and he's stashing it in the Caymans.
>
> Your stupidity knows no bounds.
Gunner
Oct 9, 2012, 2:45:39 AM10/9/12
to
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:37:02 -0400, "vinny" <frigg...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
Gunner
--
Adde cruorem stultitiae, atque ignem gladio scrutare:
To your folly add bloodshed, and stir the fire with the sword (Horace)
wrote:
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
Gunner
--
Adde cruorem stultitiae, atque ignem gladio scrutare:
To your folly add bloodshed, and stir the fire with the sword (Horace)
dca...@krl.org
Oct 9, 2012, 8:22:30 AM10/9/12
to
On Oct 8, 11:04 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
>
Everytime gas prices spike, Congress investigates . It is a good show
of concern for the people. However there has never been any evidence
of a contrived shortage or other market manipulations found.
The oil industry is way to big for anyone to manipulate it.
Dan
associates.us> wrote:
> 1st point -- Why are you wasting time and energy posting to
> a newsgroup? If you feel a need to vent do it where it
> might do some good, i.e. to your congressional
> representatives.
>
> 2nd point -- The people of California are getting "Enroned"
> again by a contrived shortage.
>
> Unka' George
> 1st point -- Why are you wasting time and energy posting to
> a newsgroup? If you feel a need to vent do it where it
> might do some good, i.e. to your congressional
> representatives.
>
> 2nd point -- The people of California are getting "Enroned"
> again by a contrived shortage.
>
>
Everytime gas prices spike, Congress investigates . It is a good show
of concern for the people. However there has never been any evidence
of a contrived shortage or other market manipulations found.
The oil industry is way to big for anyone to manipulate it.
Dan
Stormin Mormon
Oct 9, 2012, 8:20:41 AM10/9/12
to
I'm not sure if you realize it, but you're promoting socialism. Where
government controls the means of production. The USA was originally a
constitutional Republic, and worked very well. Until the socialists started
to tinker with the free market. Now, you promote more regulation to "fix"
the problems caused by more regulations.
As an American, I believe that the free market can meet peoples needs with
minimal government interference.
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
an excess of "coincidences" have occurred. Another example
government controls the means of production. The USA was originally a
constitutional Republic, and worked very well. Until the socialists started
to tinker with the free market. Now, you promote more regulation to "fix"
the problems caused by more regulations.
As an American, I believe that the free market can meet peoples needs with
minimal government interference.
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
an excess of "coincidences" have occurred. Another example
Stormin Mormon
Oct 9, 2012, 8:30:41 AM10/9/12
to
PRNY has high taxes. I remember my trip to Salt Lake City, in 1991. Gas was
1.15 in NYS, and 1.03 the rest of the trip. They were having a price war in
Cheyanne Wyoming, and it was .89/9 there.
As you can guess, I'm trying to combine trips, shop by mail, and so on.
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Ns-dnbQriMSj5O7N...@earthlink.com...
1.15 in NYS, and 1.03 the rest of the trip. They were having a price war in
Cheyanne Wyoming, and it was .89/9 there.
As you can guess, I'm trying to combine trips, shop by mail, and so on.
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Ns-dnbQriMSj5O7N...@earthlink.com...
PrecisionmachinisT
Oct 9, 2012, 10:12:20 AM10/9/12
to
news:725ee290-d5d2-4982...@c6g2000pba.googlegroups.com...
Terrell is a sick puppy.
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 10:19:57 AM10/9/12
to
On Oct 9, 5:23 am, "Stormin Mormon"
market".
When was the last time anyone heard of a big oil company losing lots
of money?
When was the last time anyone saw an American appliance at Walmart?
When was the last time a "free trade" agreement like NAFTA benefited
any American other than a huge multinational corporation?
<cayoung61***spambl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if you realize it, but you're promoting socialism. Where
> government controls the means of production. The USA was originally a
> constitutional Republic, and worked very well. Until the socialists started
> to tinker with the free market. Now, you promote more regulation to "fix"
> the problems caused by more regulations.
>
> As an American, I believe that the free market can meet peoples needs with
> minimal government interference.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> "F. George McDuffee" <gmcduf...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
> I'm not sure if you realize it, but you're promoting socialism. Where
> government controls the means of production. The USA was originally a
> constitutional Republic, and worked very well. Until the socialists started
> to tinker with the free market. Now, you promote more regulation to "fix"
> the problems caused by more regulations.
>
> As an American, I believe that the free market can meet peoples needs with
> minimal government interference.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
> contingent authority of the state and federal government to
> immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
> basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
> manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
> occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
> an excess of "coincidences" have occurred. Another example
>
> ===== end of memo to congress =====
>
> --
> Unka' George
> suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
> contingent authority of the state and federal government to
> immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
> basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
> manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
> occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
> an excess of "coincidences" have occurred. Another example
>
> ===== end of memo to congress =====
>
> --
> Unka' George
"As an American, I believe that the free market can meet peoples needs
with minimal government interference."
Some people will always insist that what we have in America is a "free
with minimal government interference."
market".
When was the last time anyone heard of a big oil company losing lots
of money?
When was the last time anyone saw an American appliance at Walmart?
When was the last time a "free trade" agreement like NAFTA benefited
any American other than a huge multinational corporation?
Jim Wilkins
Oct 9, 2012, 10:56:07 AM10/9/12
to
<dca...@krl.org> wrote in message
news:81be13d6-379b-4892...@n9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis
F. George McDuffee
Oct 9, 2012, 11:31:05 AM10/9/12
to
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:22:30 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org"
<dca...@krl.org> wrote:
<snip>
============
So was the electrical power industry until Enron. If you
don't believe me just ask President Gray Davis...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
<snip>
This caused 800% increase in wholesale prices from April
2000 to December 2000. In addition, rolling blackouts
adversely affected many businesses dependent upon a reliable
supply of electricity, and inconvenienced a large number of
retail consumers.
NB==>California had an installed generating capacity of
45GW. At the time of the blackouts, demand was 28GW.<==
{emphasis added} A demand supply gap was created by energy
companies, mainly Enron, to create an artificial shortage.
Energy traders took power plants offline for maintenance in
days of peak demand to increase the price.
<snip>
What I proposed is not to eliminate the "free market" but to
make it work, at the point of a gun if necessary.
At a minimum the "free market" requires two things to make
it function:
(1) People have to know what the total cost of their options
are to make rational decisions. Paying some of the price
now "at the register," and then paying some more [generally
much more] later in your taxes doesn't cut it.
(2) There must be enough participants on both sides of the
trades [i.e. both buyers and sellers] that no single entity
or a few entities can control availabity/demand and prices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_crisis
<snip>
Market failure is possible when monopoly manipulation of
markets occurs.
<snip>
Large fluctuations and manipulations in future derivatives
can have a substantial impact on price. Large investment
banks control 80% of oil derivatives as of May 2012,
compared to 30% only a decade ago.
<snip>
The 2000–2001 California electricity crisis - Caused by
market manipulation by Enron and failed deregulation;
resulted in multiple large-scale power outages
<snip>
Don't drink the "Kool-Aid" ...
<dca...@krl.org> wrote:
<snip>
>The oil industry is way to big for anyone to manipulate it.
<snip>
============
So was the electrical power industry until Enron. If you
don't believe me just ask President Gray Davis...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
<snip>
This caused 800% increase in wholesale prices from April
2000 to December 2000. In addition, rolling blackouts
adversely affected many businesses dependent upon a reliable
supply of electricity, and inconvenienced a large number of
retail consumers.
NB==>California had an installed generating capacity of
45GW. At the time of the blackouts, demand was 28GW.<==
{emphasis added} A demand supply gap was created by energy
companies, mainly Enron, to create an artificial shortage.
Energy traders took power plants offline for maintenance in
days of peak demand to increase the price.
<snip>
What I proposed is not to eliminate the "free market" but to
make it work, at the point of a gun if necessary.
At a minimum the "free market" requires two things to make
it function:
(1) People have to know what the total cost of their options
are to make rational decisions. Paying some of the price
now "at the register," and then paying some more [generally
much more] later in your taxes doesn't cut it.
(2) There must be enough participants on both sides of the
trades [i.e. both buyers and sellers] that no single entity
or a few entities can control availabity/demand and prices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_crisis
<snip>
Market failure is possible when monopoly manipulation of
markets occurs.
<snip>
Large fluctuations and manipulations in future derivatives
can have a substantial impact on price. Large investment
banks control 80% of oil derivatives as of May 2012,
compared to 30% only a decade ago.
<snip>
The 2000–2001 California electricity crisis - Caused by
market manipulation by Enron and failed deregulation;
resulted in multiple large-scale power outages
<snip>
Don't drink the "Kool-Aid" ...
Tom Gardner
Oct 9, 2012, 11:36:55 AM10/9/12
to
On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:
> Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
> blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
> and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>
> Gunner
>
Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
> Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
> blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
> and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>
> Gunner
>
people to become radical leftists?
Richard
Oct 9, 2012, 12:05:47 PM10/9/12
to
On 10/9/2012 10:31 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
>
> What I proposed is not to eliminate the "free market" but to
> make it work, at the point of a gun if necessary.
>
> At a minimum the "free market" requires two things to make
> it function:
> (1) People have to know what the total cost of their options
> are to make rational decisions. Paying some of the price
> now "at the register," and then paying some more [generally
> much more] later in your taxes doesn't cut it.
> (2) There must be enough participants on both sides of the
> trades [i.e. both buyers and sellers] that no single entity
> or a few entities can control availabity/demand and prices.
>
If an industry can buy political power to make favorable regulations
>
> What I proposed is not to eliminate the "free market" but to
> make it work, at the point of a gun if necessary.
>
> At a minimum the "free market" requires two things to make
> it function:
> (1) People have to know what the total cost of their options
> are to make rational decisions. Paying some of the price
> now "at the register," and then paying some more [generally
> much more] later in your taxes doesn't cut it.
> (2) There must be enough participants on both sides of the
> trades [i.e. both buyers and sellers] that no single entity
> or a few entities can control availabity/demand and prices.
>
for itself it is NOT a free market.
If an industry is subsidized by the government, it is NOT a free market.
If lobbyist from other industries (specifically corn in this case) can
buy political power to cut itself in, it it NOT a free market.
Hells bells, kids.
There is NO free market in the united States anymore - except for the
many various black markets...
So, who is handing out Kool-Aid here?
Gunner
Oct 9, 2012, 12:06:10 PM10/9/12
to
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:31:05 -0500, F. George McDuffee
<gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
><snip>
>>The oil industry is way to big for anyone to manipulate it.
><snip>
>
>============
>
>So was the electrical power industry until Enron. If you
>don't believe me just ask President Gray Davis...
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
><snip>
>This caused 800% increase in wholesale prices from April
>2000 to December 2000. In addition, rolling blackouts
>adversely affected many businesses dependent upon a reliable
>supply of electricity, and inconvenienced a large number of
>retail consumers.
And we are STILL paying about 200% higher than the national average
<gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
><snip>
>>The oil industry is way to big for anyone to manipulate it.
><snip>
>
>============
>
>So was the electrical power industry until Enron. If you
>don't believe me just ask President Gray Davis...
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
><snip>
>This caused 800% increase in wholesale prices from April
>2000 to December 2000. In addition, rolling blackouts
>adversely affected many businesses dependent upon a reliable
>supply of electricity, and inconvenienced a large number of
>retail consumers.
for power, here in parts of California. Pacific Gas and
Electric....PG&E...more commonly known as Pacific Greed and Extortion
went to bed with Davis...and raised the rates to incredible rates.
My power bill here at home...runs about $400 a month in summer..and
about $150 in winter. With only a swamp cooler running and gas heat
in winter
Gunner
"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered
by an occasional assassination." --Voltaire
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 12:18:14 PM10/9/12
to
Agree. There is no "free trade" either.
Michael A. Terrell
Oct 9, 2012, 12:25:11 PM10/9/12
to
This looks like one of Jon's CAD drawings. I love the 'threads'.
<http://www.xcasecorp.com/images/hardware/512-6007900-detail.jpg>
F. George McDuffee
Oct 9, 2012, 12:28:30 PM10/9/12
to
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:20:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Indeed it can and has. Try not to confuse the "free market"
with the "free to do anything you want market." These are
not the same things at all.
IMNSHO at least two things are required for a "free market"
to function:
(1) Choices must exist, and the total costs of these options
must be known to a fair degree of accuracy by the consumer
so they can make rational choices. Paying part of the cost
at checkout or at-the-pump, and more, generally much more,
of the cost [hidden or obscured] when taxes are filed/paid
doesn't cut it.
(2) There must be enough participants on both sides of "free
market" transactions, i.e. both buyers and sellers, so that
no one individual/entity or small group of entities can
control supply/demand and thus prices.
FWIW -- If socioeconomic "progress" is to occur, no single
entity or small group of entities can be allowed to block
it, particularly by using the regulatory powers of the state
under several pretexts.
Several examples in this context are: (1)
Development/exploitation of shale oil/gas resources,
including "fracking;" (2) Deployment of known off-the-shelf
technology for the production of synthetic petroleum from
coal and natural [shale] gas; and (3) Development and
deployment of molten salt cooled/moderated thorium and
uranium/plutonium fueled nuclear reactors [LFTR/MSTR] to
both produce electricity and process heat/steam [c. 700
degrees c] and to use (dispose of) the estimated 78 THOUSAND
tons of "spent" uranium/plutonium fuel elements which still
contain >99% of the original nuclear energy.
WHILE THE GERIATRIC AND DODDERING "LEADERSHIP" OF THE U.S.
MAY WELL BE CONTENT WITH ==>THEIR<== STATUS QUO AND THE
DECLINE IN NATIONAL ECONOMIC VITALITY, THE LEADERSHIP OF
MANY OTHER COUNTRIES IS NOT. ITS "GET HOT OR GO HOME"
TIME...
<cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
>As an American, I believe that the free market can meet peoples needs with
>minimal government interference.
>
<snip>
>As an American, I believe that the free market can meet peoples needs with
>minimal government interference.
>
Indeed it can and has. Try not to confuse the "free market"
with the "free to do anything you want market." These are
not the same things at all.
IMNSHO at least two things are required for a "free market"
to function:
(1) Choices must exist, and the total costs of these options
must be known to a fair degree of accuracy by the consumer
so they can make rational choices. Paying part of the cost
at checkout or at-the-pump, and more, generally much more,
of the cost [hidden or obscured] when taxes are filed/paid
doesn't cut it.
(2) There must be enough participants on both sides of "free
market" transactions, i.e. both buyers and sellers, so that
no one individual/entity or small group of entities can
control supply/demand and thus prices.
FWIW -- If socioeconomic "progress" is to occur, no single
entity or small group of entities can be allowed to block
it, particularly by using the regulatory powers of the state
under several pretexts.
Several examples in this context are: (1)
Development/exploitation of shale oil/gas resources,
including "fracking;" (2) Deployment of known off-the-shelf
technology for the production of synthetic petroleum from
coal and natural [shale] gas; and (3) Development and
deployment of molten salt cooled/moderated thorium and
uranium/plutonium fueled nuclear reactors [LFTR/MSTR] to
both produce electricity and process heat/steam [c. 700
degrees c] and to use (dispose of) the estimated 78 THOUSAND
tons of "spent" uranium/plutonium fuel elements which still
contain >99% of the original nuclear energy.
WHILE THE GERIATRIC AND DODDERING "LEADERSHIP" OF THE U.S.
MAY WELL BE CONTENT WITH ==>THEIR<== STATUS QUO AND THE
DECLINE IN NATIONAL ECONOMIC VITALITY, THE LEADERSHIP OF
MANY OTHER COUNTRIES IS NOT. ITS "GET HOT OR GO HOME"
TIME...
Garlicdude
Oct 9, 2012, 12:37:59 PM10/9/12
to
Gunner wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:37:02 -0400, "vinny" <frigg...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
>>> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
>>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
>> 365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
>> I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
> Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
> blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
> and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>
> Gunner
>
> --
This chart might explain a part of the problem in Calif:
> On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:37:02 -0400, "vinny" <frigg...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
>>> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
>>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
>> 365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
>> I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
> Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
> blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
> and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>
> Gunner
>
> --
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=8_NA_8O0_SCA_C&f=A
Population has increased by about a third, and refineries
have decreased by close to half.
Best,
Steve
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://tinyurl.com/2avg58
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 1:08:53 PM10/9/12
to
> > On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:37:02 -0400, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
regulation isn't the answer to solving our problems. Ronald Reagan's
presidency proved that stripping needed regulation caused lots of
problems despite those that want to rewrite history. What we have now
are tons of morons like Gunner who think we have a "free market" or
that it's all Obama's fault.
> > wrote:
>
> >> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> >>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> >>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> >>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> >>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
> >> 365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
> >> I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
> > Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
> > blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
> > and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>
> > Gunner
>
> > --
>
> This chart might explain a part of the problem in Calif:
>
> http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=8_NA_8O0_SC...
> >>> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> >>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> >>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> >>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> >>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
> >> 365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
> >> I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
> > Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
> > blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
> > and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>
> > Gunner
>
> > --
>
> This chart might explain a part of the problem in Calif:
>
>
> Population has increased by about a third, and refineries
> have decreased by close to half.
>
> Best,
> Steve
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Steve Saling
> aka The Garlic Dude
> Gilroy, CA
> The Garlic Capital of The World
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2avg58
Right. The "free market" system isn't. Stripping all or needed
> Population has increased by about a third, and refineries
> have decreased by close to half.
>
> Best,
> Steve
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Steve Saling
> aka The Garlic Dude
> Gilroy, CA
> The Garlic Capital of The World
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2avg58
regulation isn't the answer to solving our problems. Ronald Reagan's
presidency proved that stripping needed regulation caused lots of
problems despite those that want to rewrite history. What we have now
are tons of morons like Gunner who think we have a "free market" or
that it's all Obama's fault.
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 1:17:30 PM10/9/12
to
On Oct 9, 7:12 am, "PrecisionmachinisT"
<precisionmachinist...@notmail.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Yup. That's why Terrell is so angry. It doesn't appear to me that he's
done jack shit for years. Terrell is an angry has been.
<precisionmachinist...@notmail.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
done jack shit for years. Terrell is an angry has been.
Stormin Mormon
Oct 9, 2012, 2:12:45 PM10/9/12
to
Isn't that what you just proposed?
Government take over of the auto
gasoline industry?
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:rsg878lav5u9m5thm...@4ax.com...
Government take over of the auto
gasoline industry?
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
Stormin Mormon
Oct 9, 2012, 2:13:42 PM10/9/12
to
As a solution, George proposes a rapid take over of
the industry by government. Not my idea of "free".
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OOCdnXzOe5b11unN...@earthlink.com...
the industry by government. Not my idea of "free".
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OOCdnXzOe5b11unN...@earthlink.com...
Kristian Ukkonen
Oct 9, 2012, 2:41:46 PM10/9/12
to
On 10/9/2012 3:16, jon_banquer wrote:
> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> could cause Obama to lose the election.
Just wait until prices become what they are now in Europe..
> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> could cause Obama to lose the election.
Normal gasoline costs about 1.7 euro per litre.. That is about
5.7 USD/gallon.. About 70% of the price is taxes..
Your gasoline is STILL very cheap..
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 2:55:26 PM10/9/12
to
others outbid the US for oil and are willing to pay far more.
$5.70 a gallon is going to look like a bargain when this happens. This
total nightmare that has been predicted by others for years. It will
happen. Only question is when. What a fucking nightmare it will be
when it does for Americans. Sadly I think many Americans deserve
what's coming because for years they just haven't cared about anyone
but themselves. The American mentality is what really needs to change.
Michael A. Terrell
Oct 9, 2012, 3:10:26 PM10/9/12
to
Kristian Ukkonen wrote:
>
> On 10/9/2012 3:16, jon_banquer wrote:
> > In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> Just wait until prices become what they are now in Europe..
> Normal gasoline costs about 1.7 euro per litre.. That is about
> 5.7 USD/gallon.. About 70% of the price is taxes..
PrecisionmachinisT
Oct 9, 2012, 4:34:05 PM10/9/12
to
"Kristian Ukkonen" <kristian...@iki.fi> wrote in message news:Kd_cs.31479$ck7....@uutiset.elisa.fi...
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2012/0229/World-s-cheapest-gas-Top-10-countries/Venezuela-0.18-per-gallon-0.05-per-liter
"But fuel subsidies tend to benefit the rich (who own motor vehicles) more than the poor." "Only 8 percent of the $410 billion in government fuel subsidies worldwide went to the poorest 20 percent of the population (International Energy Agency - estimates, 2010)."
Too_Many_Tools
Oct 9, 2012, 4:38:03 PM10/9/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
So why are you not off the grid?
I am.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Oct 9, 2012, 4:41:53 PM10/9/12
to
The best thing that could happen to America is $10 gas.
Then you would see Americans getting serious about alternative energy.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Oct 9, 2012, 4:43:27 PM10/9/12
to
TMT
F. George McDuffee
Oct 9, 2012, 5:09:19 PM10/9/12
to
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 14:12:45 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Isn't that what you just proposed?
>Government take over of the auto
>gasoline industry?
>
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
===============
<cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Isn't that what you just proposed?
>Government take over of the auto
>gasoline industry?
>
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
Indeed this can be confusing.
The important point is that if prices are going up while the
supply of raw materials is going up, and/or there are
excessive numbers of "coincidences" knocking out key
production and transportation facilities reducing
availability, the "free market" in that particular segment
no longer appears to be operational.
It is also worthwhile to remember these are not your typical
quicky-mart grocery store on every corner, but rather
gigantic quasi public utilities with an actual or quasi
monopoly/oligopoly market position in highly critical
economic sectors.
The reason for the judicial review is to have a
disinterested 3rd party look at the accumulated data to
verify that the principle of supply and demand has been
compromised, and/or one too many "coincidences" have
occurred.
The reason I used the phrase "expedited operational control"
was that ownership should remain with the private owners
i.e. share holders, the same workers should report to work,
etc. the difference being that production scheduling,
shutdown for maintenance, etc. would temporarily be under
outside control, the operations and safety programs could be
closely reviewed/monitored by outside experts for
contradictions, lapses, omissions, etc., and all
documentation, logs and records secured for later review,
including unexplained/unjustified supply delays, charges or
plant outages.
While it is possible after thorough review of the records
and investigation/interviews it will be determined that
�s**t happens,� and everyone did everything right, this is
most doubtful, and the accountable individuals and groups
can and should be identified, terminated from employment,
and if possibly criminal charges brought against them such
as conspiracy, price fixing, wire fraud, tax evasion, and
obstruction of justice.
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 5:18:56 PM10/9/12
to
appreciate that you get where I'm coming from. That you're not afraid
to give me a compliment, despite the fact I'm not a liberal democrat,
says a lot about you and a lot about your many detractors. I guess we
have a great deal in common. :>)
pyotr filipivich
Oct 9, 2012, 5:26:59 PM10/9/12
to
Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com> on Mon, 08 Oct 2012 23:45:39 -0700 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:37:02 -0400, "vinny" <frigg...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
California Pollution control board to permit the sale of "Winter" gas
a month early, saying a month won't make that much difference.
The question unasked is "Why then have we been waiting so long in
the past?"
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:37:02 -0400, "vinny" <frigg...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
>>> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
>>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
>>
>>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
>>
>>365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
>>I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
>Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
>blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
>and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
Of course, Governor "save the Smelt" Brown has asked the
>>I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
>Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
>blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
>and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
California Pollution control board to permit the sale of "Winter" gas
a month early, saying a month won't make that much difference.
The question unasked is "Why then have we been waiting so long in
the past?"
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.
Stormin Mormon
Oct 9, 2012, 5:38:40 PM10/9/12
to
Socialist.
news:5t1978tfobpl9ubkb...@4ax.com...
news:5t1978tfobpl9ubkb...@4ax.com...
Richard
Oct 9, 2012, 5:42:59 PM10/9/12
to
Texas alone can hold most of nine European countries.
And ALL of Europe would fit in the eastern sea board.
Our nation developed on the premise of cheap transportation
because we have so bloody far to go.
Now the cheap gas is gone, but the cities and states didn't
shrink accordingly.
In London, for instance, you can get around very well without
a car. But that's not possible in any of our cities. They
are just too spread out.
Richard
Oct 9, 2012, 5:46:24 PM10/9/12
to
On 10/9/2012 1:13 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> As a solution, George proposes a rapid take over of
> the industry by government. Not my idea of "free".
>
> Christopher A. Young
Shame on you, Christopher.
> As a solution, George proposes a rapid take over of
> the industry by government. Not my idea of "free".
>
> Christopher A. Young
That's not what he said, and you know it.
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 5:50:22 PM10/9/12
to
blocks them when they won't roll over and play brain dead.
dca...@krl.org
Oct 9, 2012, 9:09:30 PM10/9/12
to
On Oct 9, 5:09 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
time the oil industry has been investigated, there has been no
evidence of misconduct.
The big problem in Calif. is that the state requires special blends of
gasoline to be sold in the state. Only certain refineries can produce
these blends, so when something happens to one or two of those
refineries, gasoline can not be brought in from othe refineries. That
is why Calif. gas is so high. Well that and taxes.
Dan
associates.us> wrote:
> While it is possible after thorough review of the records
> and investigation/interviews it will be determined that
> “s**t happens,” and everyone did everything right, this is
> most doubtful, and the accountable individuals and groups
> can and should be identified, terminated from employment,
> and if possibly criminal charges brought against them such
> as conspiracy, price fixing, wire fraud, tax evasion, and
> obstruction of justice.
>
> --
> Unka' George
I do not know why you think this time it's different. Every other
> While it is possible after thorough review of the records
> and investigation/interviews it will be determined that
> “s**t happens,” and everyone did everything right, this is
> most doubtful, and the accountable individuals and groups
> can and should be identified, terminated from employment,
> and if possibly criminal charges brought against them such
> as conspiracy, price fixing, wire fraud, tax evasion, and
> obstruction of justice.
>
> --
> Unka' George
time the oil industry has been investigated, there has been no
evidence of misconduct.
The big problem in Calif. is that the state requires special blends of
gasoline to be sold in the state. Only certain refineries can produce
these blends, so when something happens to one or two of those
refineries, gasoline can not be brought in from othe refineries. That
is why Calif. gas is so high. Well that and taxes.
Dan
Richard
Oct 9, 2012, 9:26:50 PM10/9/12
to
Not always, but occasionally... :)
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 9:45:02 PM10/9/12
to
acts like a complete asshole when I won't back down from my position.
jon_banquer
Oct 9, 2012, 9:52:00 PM10/9/12
to
On Oct 8, 5:16 pm, jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> could cause Obama to lose the election.
Gas up .020 in the San Diego, CA area to $4.80.
> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> could cause Obama to lose the election.
Richard
Oct 9, 2012, 10:35:56 PM10/9/12
to
(for not agreeing?)
Stormin Mormon
Oct 9, 2012, 11:59:26 PM10/9/12
to
I don't have the old message at hand. But, my memory of what George
suggested, was rapid government take over of the gasoline industry in case
of trouble. That was exactly what he proposed, and exactly what I quoted.
If you have the message, feel free to repost it.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:W-Wdnea1LL-gBunN...@earthlink.com...
suggested, was rapid government take over of the gasoline industry in case
of trouble. That was exactly what he proposed, and exactly what I quoted.
If you have the message, feel free to repost it.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Stormin Mormon
Oct 10, 2012, 12:02:29 AM10/10/12
to
OK, here's the George proposal. Someone read this, and tell me it's not a
government take over of the industry.
1st point -- Why are you wasting time and energy posting to
a newsgroup? If you feel a need to vent do it where it
might do some good, i.e. to your congressional
representatives.
2nd point -- The people of California are getting "Enroned"
again by a contrived shortage.
Below find the webmail I sent my congressmen on this topic.
Feel free to use all, any or none of it. If you don't know
who your congressmen are, or are too cheap to buy a stamp
(like I am), they can be identified, and almost all have
webmail at
house.gov and senate.gov. To make nagging easier I suggest
bookmarking their webmail sites in your browser.
Suggestion: compose your email off line, spell/grammer
check, and paste to the web mail message window.
===== start of memo to congress =====
TO:
Senator Pat Roberts
Senator Jim Moran
Representative Mike Pompeo
From:
George McDuffee
Date:
07 Oct 2012
Subject:
The "free market" is a market, *NOT* a suicide pact.
RE:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-04/gasoline-surges-as-refinery-shutdowns-reduce-u-dot-s-dot-supply
<snip>
Gasoline surged as refinery and pipeline shutdowns increased
concern that supplies aren't adequate to meet demand.
<snip>
It is clear the citizens of California are again being
"Enroned" or price gouged through artificial shortages
resulting from a supplier conspiracy. In 2000-2001 it was a
contrived electricity shortage [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis ]
and today it is a contrived gasoline shortage, created by
faux refinery damage and pseudo pipeline impairment,
apparently resulting from intentional "accidents" or
self-sabotage.
Such blatant displays of corporate greed and hubris cannot
be tolerated, and you are strongly urged to direct the
Federal Trade Commission, the Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission, and law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and
IRS to immediately investigate these "shortages," pending
Congressional hearings. Of the utmost importance is the
seizure and preservation of all letters, memos, notes,
emails, tweets, phone recordings, phone logs, trip
itineraries, etc. for Congressional and grand jury review.
While on the surface this may appear to be a state problem,
which should be dealt with by the state of California, the
reality is the likely conspirators are supranational
corporations, for the most part beyond the reach of the
state agencies, and/or entities/operations located outside
the state, such as the pipelines. Thus it is essential the
full investigative and legal resources of the Federal
government be used. It is suggested this investigation
should assume organized and ongoing criminal activity from
the start, thus justifying the application of the RICO
statutes and methodology, e.g. wire taps, bank record/asset
review, use of confidential informants, involuntary grand
jury testimony, sealed indictments, etc.
While it is too late to prevent severe economic disruption
in California and the adjacent states from this contrived
gasoline shortage, to prevent any repetition of this
extortion and gross abuse of market position, it is
suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
an excess of "coincidences" have occurred. Another example
of possible proactive/preventative legislation in this
particular case would be a criminal statute with possible
prison time and large [individual not corporate] fines for
taking more than one major refinery in a market area
off-line for "turnaround" at a time. Other than restricting
the supply of distillate fuels in that market, there is no
rationale for doing so. Indeed, in many cases the
availability of specialty technicians and equipment, needed
for a refinery "turnaround," means only one area refinery
can be serviced at a time, no matter how many refineries may
be shut down.
===== end of memo to congress =====
government take over of the industry.
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:854778506t9494oao...@4ax.com...
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 17:16:03 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
<jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
>Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>could cause Obama to lose the election.
=============
<jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
>Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>could cause Obama to lose the election.
1st point -- Why are you wasting time and energy posting to
a newsgroup? If you feel a need to vent do it where it
might do some good, i.e. to your congressional
representatives.
2nd point -- The people of California are getting "Enroned"
again by a contrived shortage.
Below find the webmail I sent my congressmen on this topic.
Feel free to use all, any or none of it. If you don't know
who your congressmen are, or are too cheap to buy a stamp
(like I am), they can be identified, and almost all have
webmail at
house.gov and senate.gov. To make nagging easier I suggest
bookmarking their webmail sites in your browser.
Suggestion: compose your email off line, spell/grammer
check, and paste to the web mail message window.
===== start of memo to congress =====
TO:
Senator Pat Roberts
Senator Jim Moran
Representative Mike Pompeo
From:
George McDuffee
Date:
07 Oct 2012
Subject:
The "free market" is a market, *NOT* a suicide pact.
RE:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-04/gasoline-surges-as-refinery-shutdowns-reduce-u-dot-s-dot-supply
<snip>
Gasoline surged as refinery and pipeline shutdowns increased
concern that supplies aren't adequate to meet demand.
<snip>
It is clear the citizens of California are again being
"Enroned" or price gouged through artificial shortages
resulting from a supplier conspiracy. In 2000-2001 it was a
contrived electricity shortage [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis ]
and today it is a contrived gasoline shortage, created by
faux refinery damage and pseudo pipeline impairment,
apparently resulting from intentional "accidents" or
self-sabotage.
Such blatant displays of corporate greed and hubris cannot
be tolerated, and you are strongly urged to direct the
Federal Trade Commission, the Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission, and law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and
IRS to immediately investigate these "shortages," pending
Congressional hearings. Of the utmost importance is the
seizure and preservation of all letters, memos, notes,
emails, tweets, phone recordings, phone logs, trip
itineraries, etc. for Congressional and grand jury review.
While on the surface this may appear to be a state problem,
which should be dealt with by the state of California, the
reality is the likely conspirators are supranational
corporations, for the most part beyond the reach of the
state agencies, and/or entities/operations located outside
the state, such as the pipelines. Thus it is essential the
full investigative and legal resources of the Federal
government be used. It is suggested this investigation
should assume organized and ongoing criminal activity from
the start, thus justifying the application of the RICO
statutes and methodology, e.g. wire taps, bank record/asset
review, use of confidential informants, involuntary grand
jury testimony, sealed indictments, etc.
While it is too late to prevent severe economic disruption
in California and the adjacent states from this contrived
gasoline shortage, to prevent any repetition of this
extortion and gross abuse of market position, it is
suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
an excess of "coincidences" have occurred. Another example
of possible proactive/preventative legislation in this
particular case would be a criminal statute with possible
prison time and large [individual not corporate] fines for
taking more than one major refinery in a market area
off-line for "turnaround" at a time. Other than restricting
the supply of distillate fuels in that market, there is no
rationale for doing so. Indeed, in many cases the
availability of specialty technicians and equipment, needed
for a refinery "turnaround," means only one area refinery
can be serviced at a time, no matter how many refineries may
be shut down.
===== end of memo to congress =====
Stormin Mormon
Oct 10, 2012, 12:04:29 AM10/10/12
to
Dear Richard / Cavelamb:
Here is the text in question. Please read it slowly through, and see if F.
George proposes government take over of the industry. I saw that, in my
reading.
Here is the text in question. Please read it slowly through, and see if F.
George proposes government take over of the industry. I saw that, in my
reading.
F. George McDuffee
Oct 10, 2012, 12:41:19 AM10/10/12
to
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 23:59:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>I don't have the old message at hand. But, my memory of what George
>suggested, was rapid government take over of the gasoline industry in case
>of trouble. That was exactly what he proposed, and exactly what I quoted.
>
>If you have the message, feel free to repost it.
=============
As an expansion of my prior observations reposted below, it
should be noted that by the time the price gouging starts,
in all probability there is no more "free market" left for
the economic SWAT team to rescue in this particular sector,
and their objectives must be to prevent further
damage/sabotage, secure the records, take sworn statements,
and identify the accountable. It then becomes the task of
law enforcement and the regulators/judiciary to take
appropriate action to prevent any repetition/immitation,
which at a minimum must include employment termination of
those accountable, possible bans on their industry
employment, and criminal prosecution. While the last may
seem like overkill, as George Savile (1633-1667), 1st
Marquess of Halifax tersly observed "Men are not hanged for
stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen."
Relevant section from my email to Congress:
============
<snip>
============
Here is a repost of most of my response in an earlier
discussion of this point:
===========
including unexplained/unjustified supply delays, payments,
charges or plant outages.
While it is possible after thorough review of the records
and investigation/interviews it will be determined that
“s**t happens,” and everyone did everything right, this is
most doubtful, and the accountable individuals and groups
can and should be identified, terminated from employment,
and if possibly criminal charges brought against them such
as conspiracy, price fixing, wire fraud, tax evasion, and
obstruction of justice.
==============
<cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>I don't have the old message at hand. But, my memory of what George
>suggested, was rapid government take over of the gasoline industry in case
>of trouble. That was exactly what he proposed, and exactly what I quoted.
>
>If you have the message, feel free to repost it.
As an expansion of my prior observations reposted below, it
should be noted that by the time the price gouging starts,
in all probability there is no more "free market" left for
the economic SWAT team to rescue in this particular sector,
and their objectives must be to prevent further
damage/sabotage, secure the records, take sworn statements,
and identify the accountable. It then becomes the task of
law enforcement and the regulators/judiciary to take
appropriate action to prevent any repetition/immitation,
which at a minimum must include employment termination of
those accountable, possible bans on their industry
employment, and criminal prosecution. While the last may
seem like overkill, as George Savile (1633-1667), 1st
Marquess of Halifax tersly observed "Men are not hanged for
stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen."
Relevant section from my email to Congress:
============
<snip>
While it is too late to prevent severe economic disruption
in California and the adjacent states from this contrived
gasoline shortage, to prevent any repetition of this
extortion and gross abuse of market position, it is
suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
an excess of “coincidences” have occurred.
<snip>
in California and the adjacent states from this contrived
gasoline shortage, to prevent any repetition of this
extortion and gross abuse of market position, it is
suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc. where shortfalls are
occurring not directly attributable to supply shortages or
an excess of “coincidences” have occurred.
============
Here is a repost of most of my response in an earlier
discussion of this point:
===========
charges or plant outages.
While it is possible after thorough review of the records
and investigation/interviews it will be determined that
“s**t happens,” and everyone did everything right, this is
most doubtful, and the accountable individuals and groups
can and should be identified, terminated from employment,
and if possibly criminal charges brought against them such
as conspiracy, price fixing, wire fraud, tax evasion, and
obstruction of justice.
Richard
Oct 10, 2012, 1:25:39 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/9/2012 11:02 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> OK, here's the George proposal. Someone read this, and tell me it's not a
> government take over of the industry.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
It's not.
> OK, here's the George proposal. Someone read this, and tell me it's not a
> government take over of the industry.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
Richard
Oct 10, 2012, 1:28:07 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/9/2012 11:04 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Dear Richard / Cavelamb:
>
> Here is the text in question. Please read it slowly through, and see if F.
> George proposes government take over of the industry. I saw that, in my
> reading.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
He is calling for proper regulation to protect consumers.
> Dear Richard / Cavelamb:
>
> Here is the text in question. Please read it slowly through, and see if F.
> George proposes government take over of the industry. I saw that, in my
> reading.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
I don't see that as a government takeover.
That little trick we call - nationalization.
That's a whole 'nother thing, Christopher.
George Plimpton
Oct 10, 2012, 1:33:06 AM10/10/12
to
it is suggested that legislation be enacted establishing the
contingent authority of the state and federal government to
immediately seize operational control, on a highly expedited
basis with judicial approval, of suppliers, refiners,
manufacturers, transporters, etc.
takeover of the industry.
I mean it - you'd better shut the fuck up *now*, if you know what's good
for you.
George Plimpton
Oct 10, 2012, 1:33:44 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/9/2012 10:28 PM, Richard wrote:
> On 10/9/2012 11:04 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> Dear Richard / Cavelamb:
>>
>> Here is the text in question. Please read it slowly through, and see
>> if F.
>> George proposes government take over of the industry. I saw that, in my
>> reading.
>>
>> Christopher A. Young
>> Learn more about Jesus
>> www.lds.org
>> .
>>
>>
> He is calling for proper regulation to protect consumers.
Fuck off, you gutless little shitworm. He's calling for a government
> On 10/9/2012 11:04 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> Dear Richard / Cavelamb:
>>
>> Here is the text in question. Please read it slowly through, and see
>> if F.
>> George proposes government take over of the industry. I saw that, in my
>> reading.
>>
>> Christopher A. Young
>> Learn more about Jesus
>> www.lds.org
>> .
>>
>>
> He is calling for proper regulation to protect consumers.
takeover of the oil and gas industry.
Stormin Mormon
Oct 10, 2012, 7:49:48 AM10/10/12
to
Immediate operational control, while allowing the figureheads to remain
employed. In what part of the world is that not considered take over?
It's not.
employed. In what part of the world is that not considered take over?
"Richard" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:WMSdnVemNJl8m-jN...@earthlink.com...
It's not.
Richard
Oct 10, 2012, 8:48:00 AM10/10/12
to
But it makes you look really bad.
vinny
Oct 10, 2012, 6:48:32 PM10/10/12
to
news:3f62e7a3-d6b2-4ffe...@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 8, 5:38 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
>
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2012/10/05/California-has-short-term-gasoline-crisis/UPI-68801349433440/
Its below 345 now.
Its going down here! lol
On Oct 8, 5:38 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> 365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
> I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
How about 5.21 a gallon?
> I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2012/10/05/California-has-short-term-gasoline-crisis/UPI-68801349433440/
Its below 345 now.
Its going down here! lol
vinny
Oct 10, 2012, 7:01:48 PM10/10/12
to
news:9345c0d2-8d89-4ecd...@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
*******
>>Sadly I think many Americans deserve
> > what's coming because for years they just haven't cared about anyone
> > but themselves. The American mentality is what really needs to change
lol
I hope you don't agree with that?
That european is pissed at US because of "their" high gas prices in
Europe.
That person admitted its mostly "taxes"...why be pissed at America?
Europeans have more socialism than America has, it costs money.
I bet a lot more than gas is more expensive in Europe due to taxes.
When the gas prices spike 1.00$ Americans and America quickly adapts. Its
the tiny bit each week
year after year thats hurting us.
The best thing that could happen is it goes up overnight. We woukld adapt
well.
>>Sadly I think many Americans deserve
> > what's coming because for years they just haven't cared about anyone
> > but themselves. The American mentality is what really needs to change
I hope you don't agree with that?
That european is pissed at US because of "their" high gas prices in
Europe.
That person admitted its mostly "taxes"...why be pissed at America?
Europeans have more socialism than America has, it costs money.
I bet a lot more than gas is more expensive in Europe due to taxes.
When the gas prices spike 1.00$ Americans and America quickly adapts. Its
the tiny bit each week
year after year thats hurting us.
The best thing that could happen is it goes up overnight. We woukld adapt
well.
anna.b...@orange.k12.nc.us
Oct 10, 2012, 7:27:22 PM10/10/12
to
I don't really understand this election
Stormin Mormon
Oct 11, 2012, 8:32:17 AM10/11/12
to
I don't understand how Obama voters can
be so totally mesmerized by slogans.
Especially when the three years of office
have done just the opposite of the slogans.
Isn't it time for real change?
<anna.b...@orange.k12.nc.us> wrote in message
news:450efdea-7563-4019...@googlegroups.com...
be so totally mesmerized by slogans.
Especially when the three years of office
have done just the opposite of the slogans.
Isn't it time for real change?
<anna.b...@orange.k12.nc.us> wrote in message
news:450efdea-7563-4019...@googlegroups.com...
Jim Wilkins
Oct 11, 2012, 12:20:16 PM10/11/12
to
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:J0zds.36920$L57....@fed13.iad...
news:J0zds.36920$L57....@fed13.iad...
>I don't understand how Obama voters can
> be so totally mesmerized by slogans.
>
> Especially when the three years of office
> have done just the opposite of the slogans.
>
> Isn't it time for real change?
>
> Christopher A. Young
They still dream of a world that owes them a living.
> be so totally mesmerized by slogans.
>
> Especially when the three years of office
> have done just the opposite of the slogans.
>
> Isn't it time for real change?
>
> Christopher A. Young
Stormin Mormon
Oct 11, 2012, 3:32:11 PM10/11/12
to
Ah, yes. Big rock candy mountain.
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/obrotherwhereartthou/inthebigrockcandymountains.htm
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:k56rj4$1a1$1...@dont-email.me...
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/obrotherwhereartthou/inthebigrockcandymountains.htm
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:k56rj4$1a1$1...@dont-email.me...
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)
Oct 11, 2012, 5:47:20 PM10/11/12
to
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:36:55 -0400, Tom Gardner <Mars@Tacks> wrote:
>On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:
>
>> Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
>> blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
>> and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>
>Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
>people to become radical leftists?
Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.
It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.
I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.
And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.
Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.
Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.
--<< Bruce >>--
>On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:
>
>> Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
>> blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
>> and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>
>Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
>people to become radical leftists?
Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.
It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.
I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.
And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.
Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.
Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.
--<< Bruce >>--
John B.
Oct 11, 2012, 8:49:46 PM10/11/12
to
tanks and associated apparatus. Conversion kits readily available,
quick change over from LPG to gasoline, or back. Been in use for years
and years.
--
Cheers,
John B.
jon_banquer
Oct 11, 2012, 10:44:43 PM10/11/12
to
On Oct 10, 3:49 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3f62e7a3-d6b2-4ffe...@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 8, 5:38 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> > > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> > 365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
> > I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
> How about 5.21 a gallon?
>
> http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2012/10/05/Californ...
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3f62e7a3-d6b2-4ffe...@ql4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 8, 5:38 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:ba1eb1b5-91a0-4018...@r8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
> > > Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
> > > don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
> > > and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
> > > could cause Obama to lose the election.
>
> > 365 a gallon here. Same as its been all year.
> > I wonder why we aren't feeling it here?
>
> How about 5.21 a gallon?
>
>
> Its below 345 now.
> Its going down here! lol
Fuck you. ;>)
> Its below 345 now.
> Its going down here! lol
jon_banquer
Oct 11, 2012, 10:49:35 PM10/11/12
to
On Oct 10, 4:03 pm, "vinny" <friggenb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Interesting view. I think most of America is a sleep at the wheel. It
would be nice if Americans were suddenly shocked into violent protest
and action. For sure I wish this would happen.... yesterday. Seems
like burning down banks would be a good start.
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
would be nice if Americans were suddenly shocked into violent protest
and action. For sure I wish this would happen.... yesterday. Seems
like burning down banks would be a good start.
vinny
Oct 12, 2012, 12:12:30 AM10/12/12
to
news:405cdba5-d418-4ede...@wz4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
relax, its back up to 365.
That comes out to an increase of 15 cents a gallon. I get slightly under 30
miles per gallon.
So NOW i have to pay another one half of a penny a mile!
I wont stand for it! lol
Seriously, as insignificant as it seems, its steadily going up faster than
inflation.
And you guys aren't exacly helping with your screwed up liberal broke ass
state. With your 5 bucks on the news, its making us accept 4 bux everywhere
else, because at least its not as bad as california's 5 bux.
The system is so complicated it has unforeseen consequences.
Gas prices go up unnaturally. Gas isn't twice as expensive to collect and
ship as it was 12-13 years ago.
So...this gives obama some elbow room to crunch gas milage standards.
He says he's doing it to combat high gas prices, but its really because he
believes in global warming.
AND thats ok. Both are good reasons to pass restriction laws and regulation.
Here's just a few problems...
In order to get another 10 miles per gallon, they have to drop 400 pounds
off the weight of the car, excluding the engine.
So what material do they switch to as opposed to heavy steel...plastic, a
very big green house contributor, WAY more than gasoline could ever dream
of.
So it creates more polluting plastic as opposed to recyclable steel.
It creates more of a demand for oil, lowering supply and raising prices.
Safety factor...
Lighter cars = more deaths on the road. More hospital stays, higher
insurance premiums for all.
Lighter softer cars = more cars "total'ed" in accidents, raising auto
insurance premiums.
Obama has said out of his own mouth higher gas prices is good for America.
It will force us to come up with alternatives.
Well, its not that easy. Every damn time the government meddles it gets
worse...
why?
Because of unforeseen consequences!
Ok....say gas prices sore to 6 bux and stay there.
gasoline becomes a much larger part of our personal budgets.
So...people arent going to run out and get a new technology, THEY will stop
being so mobile.
People will not drive 40 miles to work anymore like in the 60's and 70's.
What that means is MORE UNEMPLOYMENT! People living where there are no jobs.
If I lose my job I will look in a 40 mile radius.
Now double the gas prices and i will look for a job in a 20 mile radius and
have a better chance at being unemployed living off the system as opposed to
feeding it.
It's a mess O lies and confusion.
That comes out to an increase of 15 cents a gallon. I get slightly under 30
miles per gallon.
So NOW i have to pay another one half of a penny a mile!
I wont stand for it! lol
Seriously, as insignificant as it seems, its steadily going up faster than
inflation.
And you guys aren't exacly helping with your screwed up liberal broke ass
state. With your 5 bucks on the news, its making us accept 4 bux everywhere
else, because at least its not as bad as california's 5 bux.
The system is so complicated it has unforeseen consequences.
Gas prices go up unnaturally. Gas isn't twice as expensive to collect and
ship as it was 12-13 years ago.
So...this gives obama some elbow room to crunch gas milage standards.
He says he's doing it to combat high gas prices, but its really because he
believes in global warming.
AND thats ok. Both are good reasons to pass restriction laws and regulation.
Here's just a few problems...
In order to get another 10 miles per gallon, they have to drop 400 pounds
off the weight of the car, excluding the engine.
So what material do they switch to as opposed to heavy steel...plastic, a
very big green house contributor, WAY more than gasoline could ever dream
of.
So it creates more polluting plastic as opposed to recyclable steel.
It creates more of a demand for oil, lowering supply and raising prices.
Safety factor...
Lighter cars = more deaths on the road. More hospital stays, higher
insurance premiums for all.
Lighter softer cars = more cars "total'ed" in accidents, raising auto
insurance premiums.
Obama has said out of his own mouth higher gas prices is good for America.
It will force us to come up with alternatives.
Well, its not that easy. Every damn time the government meddles it gets
worse...
why?
Because of unforeseen consequences!
Ok....say gas prices sore to 6 bux and stay there.
gasoline becomes a much larger part of our personal budgets.
So...people arent going to run out and get a new technology, THEY will stop
being so mobile.
People will not drive 40 miles to work anymore like in the 60's and 70's.
What that means is MORE UNEMPLOYMENT! People living where there are no jobs.
If I lose my job I will look in a 40 mile radius.
Now double the gas prices and i will look for a job in a 20 mile radius and
have a better chance at being unemployed living off the system as opposed to
feeding it.
It's a mess O lies and confusion.
vinny
Oct 12, 2012, 12:15:35 AM10/12/12
to
news:2ebfcee6-d92d-4ca6...@q7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com...
***********
lol. Not what I meant. People would adapt by not driving.
This is weird, gasoline goes up every 3 months, but plastic products dont?
lol. Not what I meant. People would adapt by not driving.
This is weird, gasoline goes up every 3 months, but plastic products dont?
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)
Oct 12, 2012, 4:18:41 AM10/12/12
to
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:49:46 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Propane prices are tied to gasoline and diesel prices to a point - If
they can't refine gasoline they can't separate out the Propane and
Butane fractions either.
And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
right to the house, and as much as I need.
I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
annual licenses...
--<< Bruce >>--
wrote:
they can't refine gasoline they can't separate out the Propane and
Butane fractions either.
And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
right to the house, and as much as I need.
I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
annual licenses...
--<< Bruce >>--
John B.
Oct 12, 2012, 9:12:59 AM10/12/12
to
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:18:41 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
That isn't wholly correct. Certainly there is a certain amount of
propane and butane that boil out of crude when it is processed but to
a large extent both propane and butane is a byproduct of treating gas
streams. If you are selling "lean gas", i.e., ethane and methane you
need to strip everything heavier out or you will raise havoc with your
customer's operations.
I don't know about the U.S. market but the E. Asian market is largely
driven by supply and demand for LPG.
mounted CNG tanks are in the 3,000 psi range and I believe that
residential distribution systems are working in the inches of water
ranges, although I've never been in that side of the business.
>I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
>the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
>worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
>and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
>annual licenses...
>
>--<< Bruce >>--
Here we have LPG filling stations pretty well all over the country and
a large number of LPG burning automobiles. For all practical purposes
you can say that all taxi's are now running LPG . In fact I'm not sure
that CNG systems for gasoline engines are even sold here as the LPG
systems are so popular.
As an aside, the first LPG burning automobiles I saw belonged to a
taxi company in Tachakawa, Japan in about 1955 :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
propane and butane that boil out of crude when it is processed but to
a large extent both propane and butane is a byproduct of treating gas
streams. If you are selling "lean gas", i.e., ethane and methane you
need to strip everything heavier out or you will raise havoc with your
customer's operations.
I don't know about the U.S. market but the E. Asian market is largely
driven by supply and demand for LPG.
>
>And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
>economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
>right to the house, and as much as I need.
>
I suppose that you will need to compress it as I believe that vehicle
>And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
>economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
>right to the house, and as much as I need.
>
mounted CNG tanks are in the 3,000 psi range and I believe that
residential distribution systems are working in the inches of water
ranges, although I've never been in that side of the business.
>I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
>the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
>worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
>and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
>annual licenses...
>
>--<< Bruce >>--
a large number of LPG burning automobiles. For all practical purposes
you can say that all taxi's are now running LPG . In fact I'm not sure
that CNG systems for gasoline engines are even sold here as the LPG
systems are so popular.
As an aside, the first LPG burning automobiles I saw belonged to a
taxi company in Tachakawa, Japan in about 1955 :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Larry Jaques
Oct 12, 2012, 10:03:11 AM10/12/12
to
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:18:41 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
I just filled up my propane tank for my BBQ. It cost $7.56 for 4.7
gallons. That's a nice bit lower than gasoline, thankfully.
What gets me is the price of solvents. Alcohol, acetone, paint
thinner, and lacquer thinner are all $11-15 a freakin' gallon!
>And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
>economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
>right to the house, and as much as I need.
>
>I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
>the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
>worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
>and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
>annual licenses...
Really? I've been away from the propane scene for 10-3/4 years now
but there was never a delivery fee. They just came and topped it off
a few times a year, billing me only for gas used.
The permit thing is new, too. I understand that they're burying them
now for some reason, so maybe that's part of it. Excavation permits,
graft, other graft, etc.
Natural gas is quite a bit cheaper and I'm happier with it.
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
gallons. That's a nice bit lower than gasoline, thankfully.
What gets me is the price of solvents. Alcohol, acetone, paint
thinner, and lacquer thinner are all $11-15 a freakin' gallon!
>And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
>economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
>right to the house, and as much as I need.
>
>I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
>the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
>worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
>and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
>annual licenses...
but there was never a delivery fee. They just came and topped it off
a few times a year, billing me only for gas used.
The permit thing is new, too. I understand that they're burying them
now for some reason, so maybe that's part of it. Excavation permits,
graft, other graft, etc.
Natural gas is quite a bit cheaper and I'm happier with it.
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
a friend
Oct 13, 2012, 1:32:08 AM10/13/12
to
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel - you see, the
conservatives figured out that the guys who use the road more should pay
more, so they did this with gas tax (more gas = more use, so pay more) -
makes sense until one of these nut jobs decides that it's time to cheat
and make everybody else pay for them and to again get a free ride. Now,
if they actually paid the tax, using your own gas would be fine, but
does anybody want to bet that these guys won't pay the tax if they can
get away with it?
--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM
Gunner
Oct 13, 2012, 2:02:44 AM10/13/12
to
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:42:59 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>On 10/9/2012 1:41 PM, Kristian Ukkonen wrote:
>> On 10/9/2012 3:16, jon_banquer wrote:
>>> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
>>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
>>
>> Just wait until prices become what they are now in Europe..
>> Normal gasoline costs about 1.7 euro per litre.. That is about
>> 5.7 USD/gallon.. About 70% of the price is taxes..
>>
>> Your gasoline is STILL very cheap..
>>
>>
>
>It probably seems like that, but there is more to it.
>
>Texas alone can hold most of nine European countries.
>And ALL of Europe would fit in the eastern sea board.
>
>Our nation developed on the premise of cheap transportation
>because we have so bloody far to go.
>
>Now the cheap gas is gone, but the cities and states didn't
>shrink accordingly.
>
>In London, for instance, you can get around very well without
>a car. But that's not possible in any of our cities. They
>are just too spread out.
A very good point.
I left Costa Mesa California today at 11:15.
I drove 67 miles north, without leaving the "City"
It is one large mass of buildings.. It wasnt until I hit Castaic at
the foot of the Tejon Pass...that the "city" stopped.
I reached home at 4:35.
167 miles through the heart of the LA basin (which I do twice each
week)
England is about 398.65 miles from top to bottom.
Great Britian is about 750 miles, top to bottom..that includes
England, Scotland, Wales etc.
California..is just a smideon over 800 miles, top to bottom.
One state. With 2 more above it to the north.
It always amuses me, when I encounter Europeans doing a driving tour
of the US. They are simply stunned that they can drive for 3
days..and still never leave one of the western states, such as Texas
or California.
And thats not stopping to visit the sceanery either.
Gunner
"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered
by an occasional assassination." --Voltaire
wrote:
>On 10/9/2012 1:41 PM, Kristian Ukkonen wrote:
>> On 10/9/2012 3:16, jon_banquer wrote:
>>> In my opinion high gas prices are badly hurting Obama and giving
>>> Romney a boost. While this isn't Obama's fault the American people
>>> don't care and are out of patience with Obama to deliver quality jobs
>>> and much lower unemployment. This is exactly the kind of thing that
>>> could cause Obama to lose the election.
>>
>> Just wait until prices become what they are now in Europe..
>> Normal gasoline costs about 1.7 euro per litre.. That is about
>> 5.7 USD/gallon.. About 70% of the price is taxes..
>>
>> Your gasoline is STILL very cheap..
>>
>>
>
>
>Texas alone can hold most of nine European countries.
>And ALL of Europe would fit in the eastern sea board.
>
>Our nation developed on the premise of cheap transportation
>because we have so bloody far to go.
>
>Now the cheap gas is gone, but the cities and states didn't
>shrink accordingly.
>
>In London, for instance, you can get around very well without
>a car. But that's not possible in any of our cities. They
>are just too spread out.
A very good point.
I left Costa Mesa California today at 11:15.
I drove 67 miles north, without leaving the "City"
It is one large mass of buildings.. It wasnt until I hit Castaic at
the foot of the Tejon Pass...that the "city" stopped.
I reached home at 4:35.
167 miles through the heart of the LA basin (which I do twice each
week)
England is about 398.65 miles from top to bottom.
Great Britian is about 750 miles, top to bottom..that includes
England, Scotland, Wales etc.
California..is just a smideon over 800 miles, top to bottom.
One state. With 2 more above it to the north.
It always amuses me, when I encounter Europeans doing a driving tour
of the US. They are simply stunned that they can drive for 3
days..and still never leave one of the western states, such as Texas
or California.
And thats not stopping to visit the sceanery either.
Gunner
"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered
by an occasional assassination." --Voltaire
dca...@krl.org
Oct 13, 2012, 7:46:25 AM10/13/12
to
On Oct 13, 1:32 am, a friend <afri...@wonderfulfriendshipisgood.com>
wrote:
> What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
> trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
> that come with using commercially supplied fuel -
That is part of the attraction of plug in electric cars.
Dan
wrote:
> What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
> trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
> that come with using commercially supplied fuel -
Dan
Ed Huesers
Oct 13, 2012, 12:09:36 PM10/13/12
to
Richard wrote:
> Our nation developed on the premise of cheap transportation
> because we have so bloody far to go.
>
> Now the cheap gas is gone, but the cities and states didn't
> shrink accordingly.
Buy locally.
> Our nation developed on the premise of cheap transportation
> because we have so bloody far to go.
>
> Now the cheap gas is gone, but the cities and states didn't
> shrink accordingly.
Ed Huesers
Http://www.grandshelters.com
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)
Oct 13, 2012, 12:10:21 PM10/13/12
to
The owner of that electric or CNG car just spent a *lot* of money to
be able to use the alternate fuel and to cut their emissions way down.
At a minimum, $10,000 /per vehicle/ between the vehicle's gas tanks
controls and operating gear, and the refueling equipment at its home
base. Or for electrics and hybrids, at least the same in batteries
controls and chargers.
For that large an up-front investment, there needs to be a long-term
payback, or nobody will do it.
Now I could see them tracking the electricity and NG usage (separate
metering) and charging the Road Taxes at a reasonable and equivalent
rate if the overall price benefits are still there - but government
has NEVER been known to stop at a 'reasonable' rate when they smell
money for the taking - the citizens often have to stop them.
If they take their usual path and tax it heavier than gasoline
"because they can, the base price is lower and is an unfair advantage"
to try and make an income stream, they kill the Golden Goose.
--<< Bruce >>--
a friend
Oct 13, 2012, 12:57:04 PM10/13/12
to
from the rest of us - he, specifically, rants against all sorts of
things, and then goes to do it himself. If there was legal acceptance,
as there is for electric cars, then I would be totally fine with it,
however, there is no such thing.
pyotr filipivich
Oct 13, 2012, 1:26:17 PM10/13/12
to
Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com> on Fri, 12 Oct 2012 23:02:44 -0700 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Seattle to Taft - give or take, 1000 miles, 18 hours on the road.
That is eighteen hours of your butt in the seat, driving, none stop.
And assumes you drive 65 all the way no stops
If you want to "eat here and get gas" it takes longer. And same
if you want to pull over and sleep. (Sleeping while driving is not
recommended.)
For comparisons sake. Munich to Istanbul is 1000 miles as the crow
flies. If the crow has to drive, it is 1200 miles - and 21 hours.
Now, back in 1950, my Dad "regularly" drove from San Francisco
(where he was in Seminary) to Corvallis (where his girlfriend went to
college) - it is 10 hours by interstate. How long it was on old Hwy
99 I dunno. ... add a couple hours. Ah, but he was young and in
love.
>It always amuses me, when I encounter Europeans doing a driving tour
>of the US. They are simply stunned that they can drive for 3
>days..and still never leave one of the western states, such as Texas
>or California.
Ah, reminds me of Steve 'awkin's story. He was back in England,
in a pub, with his motorcycle outside. Bloke comes up, and eventually
challenges him to a road-race. "Fine" says Hawkins "Edinburgh and
back". Wait what? The guy was evidentially thinking more in terms of
up to the roundabout and back.
>
>And thats not stopping to visit the sceanery either.
"Only God can make a tree.
But Porsche lets you drive by
at a hundred miles an hour."
P. J. O'roake said something like that.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That is eighteen hours of your butt in the seat, driving, none stop.
And assumes you drive 65 all the way no stops
If you want to "eat here and get gas" it takes longer. And same
if you want to pull over and sleep. (Sleeping while driving is not
recommended.)
For comparisons sake. Munich to Istanbul is 1000 miles as the crow
flies. If the crow has to drive, it is 1200 miles - and 21 hours.
Now, back in 1950, my Dad "regularly" drove from San Francisco
(where he was in Seminary) to Corvallis (where his girlfriend went to
college) - it is 10 hours by interstate. How long it was on old Hwy
99 I dunno. ... add a couple hours. Ah, but he was young and in
love.
>It always amuses me, when I encounter Europeans doing a driving tour
>of the US. They are simply stunned that they can drive for 3
>days..and still never leave one of the western states, such as Texas
>or California.
in a pub, with his motorcycle outside. Bloke comes up, and eventually
challenges him to a road-race. "Fine" says Hawkins "Edinburgh and
back". Wait what? The guy was evidentially thinking more in terms of
up to the roundabout and back.
>
>And thats not stopping to visit the sceanery either.
But Porsche lets you drive by
at a hundred miles an hour."
P. J. O'roake said something like that.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.
dca...@krl.org
Oct 13, 2012, 5:44:29 PM10/13/12
to
On Oct 13, 12:57 pm, a friend <afri...@wonderfulfriendshipisgood.com>
wrote:
> the point is that gunner and those who do this illegally are stealing
> from the rest of us - he, specifically, rants against all sorts of
> things, and then goes to do it himself. If there was legal acceptance,
> as there is for electric cars, then I would be totally fine with it,
> however, there is no such thing.
>
Please let us know the laws that are being broken. Are they state or
federal laws?
Dan
wrote:
> the point is that gunner and those who do this illegally are stealing
> from the rest of us - he, specifically, rants against all sorts of
> things, and then goes to do it himself. If there was legal acceptance,
> as there is for electric cars, then I would be totally fine with it,
> however, there is no such thing.
>
federal laws?
Dan
grmi...@rogers.com
Oct 13, 2012, 8:37:55 PM10/13/12
to
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 23:02:44 -0700, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
An aquaintance, the bride in an arringed marriage, on her arrival in
Toronto (1956) from a mediteranean country, enquired of her future
husband if they could drop her seat mate off on their way to London.
The seat mate's destination? Vancouver.
---
Gerry :-)}
London,Canada
wrote:
Toronto (1956) from a mediteranean country, enquired of her future
husband if they could drop her seat mate off on their way to London.
The seat mate's destination? Vancouver.
---
Gerry :-)}
London,Canada
Gunner
Oct 13, 2012, 11:08:16 PM10/13/12
to
What other guys? And where in the world did you manage to get road use
taxes from my post about California's special blending of fuel?
You are a Leftwinger of course, and off your meds once again..or
rather...still off your meds.
I hope they hang you for a week, letting the crows peck out your eyes
and then dump you in the bottom of a mass grave with a bunch of
Klanners on top of you to keep your ass all warm and cuddled for
eternity.
Gunner
Oct 13, 2012, 11:10:18 PM10/13/12
to
fuel for the summer time?
Gunner
ala...@iinet.net.oz
Oct 13, 2012, 11:49:18 PM10/13/12
to
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:37:55 -0400, grmi...@rogers.com wrote:
>>>> Just wait until prices become what they are now in Europe..
>>>> Normal gasoline costs about 1.7 euro per litre.. That is about
>>>> 5.7 USD/gallon.. About 70% of the price is taxes..
>>>>
>>>> Your gasoline is STILL very cheap..
Yes, we have the same spread out urban areas as USA and our petrol
>>>> Just wait until prices become what they are now in Europe..
>>>> Normal gasoline costs about 1.7 euro per litre.. That is about
>>>> 5.7 USD/gallon.. About 70% of the price is taxes..
>>>>
>>>> Your gasoline is STILL very cheap..
is not much cheaper than Europe, $1.43 / litre or $5.40 USgallon. I
use LPG at $0.82 / litre or $3.12 USG but do use about 10% more than
running on petrol
>>>>
>>>
>>>It probably seems like that, but there is more to it.
>>>
>>>Texas alone can hold most of nine European countries.
>>>And ALL of Europe would fit in the eastern sea board.
All of USA west of El Paso up to the Canadian border would fit in my
>>>
>>>It probably seems like that, but there is more to it.
>>>
>>>Texas alone can hold most of nine European countries.
>>>And ALL of Europe would fit in the eastern sea board.
STATE
>>>Our nation developed on the premise of cheap transportation
>>>because we have so bloody far to go.
east just to get out of W A or about 2000 miles north. Miles of
bugger all with the odd town or mine in between, we only have a
population of about 2 million. The other 23 million are in the other
2/3rds of the country. Our big problem is lack of water, I had 781
mm / 30.75 inches of rain in the last year, some parts of the state
get about 5 inches annually.
>>California..is just a smideon over 800 miles, top to bottom.
>>One state. With 2 more above it to the north.
spare. VBG
Alan
Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)
Oct 14, 2012, 4:20:15 AM10/14/12
to
And be clear about your exact charges and what you have for proof of
this wrongdoing. Take as much white space as you need, we can always
inconvenience more electrons to transmit it.
And be sure to include your real name and full legal address, we'll
need someplace to send the Process Server with the Libel summons. I
already know Gunner's, he chooses not to use it here for personal
reasons, and I respect that.
Talk about going off Half-Cocked - you've managed to do it on several
levels at once...
Gunner isn't cheating on fuel taxes, his trucks are all Gasoline
powered and he pays the fuel taxes at the pump just like everybody
else - except for the E-350 Van that has the factory Navistar diesel,
and that's taxed at the pump too. And I'm stuck with all Gasoline
vehicles too - wouldn't be economical to get the conversion kits for
older Fuel Injected vehicles.
And there is a program in place to collect Use Taxes for Propane, CNG
and LNG vehicles already. And passenger car and light truck users can
get a reasonable Flat Rate permit - $36 a year for all passenger
cars and other vehicles 4,000 pounds and under unladen. Small trucks
4001 to 8000 pounds are $72 a year.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/pub12.pdf
When you get into 3/4 Ton (8001 to 12,000-pounds unladen $120 a year)
and 1-Ton (12,001+ pounds unladen $168 a year) trucks it starts
getting expensive to go Flat Rate, if the truck is lightly used you'd
want the option to go by the mile.
Electric cars they dont have a way to collect road use taxes - YET.
Already in the "How can we do it?" stages.
--<< Bruce >>--
John B.
Oct 14, 2012, 4:44:17 AM10/14/12
to
read, some 2,410,600 while Los Angeles (one city in California) is
3,792,621 :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Gunner
Oct 14, 2012, 5:39:05 AM10/14/12
to
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:49:18 +0800, ala...@iinet.net.oz wrote:
> Our big problem is lack of water, I had 781
>mm / 30.75 inches of rain in the last year, some parts of the state
>get about 5 inches annually.
We normally get 4" a year. We have been way under that for the past 5
>mm / 30.75 inches of rain in the last year, some parts of the state
>get about 5 inches annually.
yrs or more.
>
>>>California..is just a smideon over 800 miles, top to bottom.
>>>One state. With 2 more above it to the north.
>
> The Northern Territory would fit in California with lots of room to
>spare. VBG
Indeed it would.
>>>California..is just a smideon over 800 miles, top to bottom.
>>>One state. With 2 more above it to the north.
>
> The Northern Territory would fit in California with lots of room to
>spare. VBG
And you have a population of some 25 million total..and virtually all
of it lives within 75 miles of the coast, leaving the center of Oz
virtually empty.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301.0~2012~Main%20Features~Geographic%20distribution%20of%20the%20population~49
Michael A. Terrell
Oct 14, 2012, 7:22:46 AM10/14/12
to
Gunner wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:49:18 +0800, ala...@iinet.net.oz wrote:
>
> > Our big problem is lack of water, I had 781
> >mm / 30.75 inches of rain in the last year, some parts of the state
> >get about 5 inches annually.
>
> We normally get 4" a year. We have been way under that for the past 5
> yrs or more.
> >
> >>>California..is just a smideon over 800 miles, top to bottom.
> >>>One state. With 2 more above it to the north.
> >
> > The Northern Territory would fit in California with lots of room to
> >spare. VBG
>
> Indeed it would.
>
> And you have a population of some 25 million total..and virtually all
> of it lives within 75 miles of the coast, leaving the center of Oz
> virtually empty.
>
> http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301.0~2012~Main%20Features~Geographic%20distribution%20of%20the%20population~49
Mexicans. They're already used to desert living. ;-)
Gunner
Oct 14, 2012, 5:19:16 PM10/14/12
to
Is he ready for 15 million non english speaking semi-civilized but
occasionally hard working people to settle in?
We can fill up every airplane, every boat and every ship and have them
in Oz in...what...3 yrs?
Gunner
Michael A. Terrell
Oct 14, 2012, 6:17:06 PM10/14/12
to
Gunner wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Don't be so greedy. Send them a couple million of your surplus
> >Mexicans. They're already used to desert living. ;-)
>
> Ok...so we send em half of the illegals. Works for me.
>
> Is he ready for 15 million non english speaking semi-civilized but
> occasionally hard working people to settle in?
>
> We can fill up every airplane, every boat and every ship and have them
> in Oz in...what...3 yrs?
Send them on container ships. They can convert the containers to
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Don't be so greedy. Send them a couple million of your surplus
> >Mexicans. They're already used to desert living. ;-)
>
> Ok...so we send em half of the illegals. Works for me.
>
> Is he ready for 15 million non english speaking semi-civilized but
> occasionally hard working people to settle in?
>
> We can fill up every airplane, every boat and every ship and have them
> in Oz in...what...3 yrs?
cheap condos. ;-)
jon_banquer
Oct 14, 2012, 7:33:24 PM10/14/12
to
Our society is completely based on the automobile. Our public
transportation system is a fucking joke compared to what's available
in many other countries.
John B.
Oct 14, 2012, 9:33:49 PM10/14/12
to
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:19:16 -0700, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
Won't work. The Australians (perhaps smarter then the Americans)
confine illegal workers on Christmas Island until the can verify their
status and then if they don't want them they send them back.
I believe that the Prime Minister also gave a speech about "if you
don't want to conform to Australian Standards then go back". I don't
believe that there are any Spanish Language schools in Australia :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
confine illegal workers on Christmas Island until the can verify their
status and then if they don't want them they send them back.
I believe that the Prime Minister also gave a speech about "if you
don't want to conform to Australian Standards then go back". I don't
believe that there are any Spanish Language schools in Australia :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
Oct 14, 2012, 9:37:50 PM10/14/12
to
referendum as to whether the voters would accept a bond issue to build
a mass rapid transit system. The voters turned it down for two years
running.
--
Cheers,
John B.
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