OT: 45 ACP ammo
Wes
Talked to uncle, we need to do some shooting, he is working on getting his 45/70 Browning
highwall to shoot decent groups and I have a Marlin Guide gun with about 36 rounds of 405G
cast bullets that I can't find the loading data to empty.
Sounds like a great reason to go out shooting in the dead of a michigan winter. We will
have to walk a bit to get to our personal range due to snow but that is a good cardiac
workout.
Somehow we got onto the subject of .45 acp. I learned that uncles 1911 still holds some
ammo I loaded just after I got out of the USMC in 1979. That ammo went off just fine, I
was using some monster holed hollow points and HS-6 if I remember right.
I suggested we shoot that gun and I'd supply a refill of modern stuff for his gun and my
Ruger P-90 after we shot some to check function.
I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP, forget about it.
Started moving tooling into my snug little shop. The 3' wide steel shelve I have have
looks like it might fold under the weight of things I have collected. I could find 4'
wide shelves that are sturdy while shopping but 3' seems to be a thing currently not in
vogue.
Wes
--
The only thing Obama has fixed is Carter's reputation.
Snag
>
> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP,
> forget about it.
We've got .45 ACP in Memphis . 35 bucks a box last time I checked . Makes me
glad I 've got a few hundred rounds , and components for a few hundred more
.
--
Snag
Last I bought was
13 bucks/box of 50
for 230 FMJ's
Wes
>Wes wrote:
>>
>> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP,
>> forget about it.
>
>We've got .45 ACP in Memphis . 35 bucks a box last time I checked . Makes me
>glad I 've got a few hundred rounds , and components for a few hundred more
>.
35 per 50 sounds like rifle prices not so long ago.
Damn. I'm looking at a box of 50 PMC .45 acp cartriges I paid 10.99 not so long ago.
Well I guess it has been a while, 2001, I looked it up on quicken. I wish my 401K had
done as well as ammo in major calibers. My Clinton era components stock pile isn't
looking so crazy after all.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Snag
> "Snag" <snag...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Wes wrote:
>>>
>>> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP,
>>> forget about it.
>>
>> We've got .45 ACP in Memphis . 35 bucks a box last time I checked .
>> Makes me glad I 've got a few hundred rounds , and components for a
>> few hundred more .
>
> 35 per 50 sounds like rifle prices not so long ago.
>
> Damn. I'm looking at a box of 50 PMC .45 acp cartriges I paid 10.99
> not so long ago.
>
> Well I guess it has been a while, 2001, I looked it up on quicken. I
> wish my 401K had done as well as ammo in major calibers. My Clinton
> era components stock pile isn't looking so crazy after all.
>
> Wes
I've alwqys been kind of a stockpiler . Any time I find a good buy on ammo
or components I'll buy as much as I can afford . I won't be hurtin' unless
it comes to all out war in the streets .
And then it'll just be a matter of reloadin' fast enough .
--
Snag
I really like
Hornady 230 gr XTP's
in .45 ACP
Hawke
>> Wes wrote:
>>> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP,
>>> forget about it.
>> We've got .45 ACP in Memphis . 35 bucks a box last time I checked . Makes me
>> glad I 've got a few hundred rounds , and components for a few hundred more
>> .
>
> 35 per 50 sounds like rifle prices not so long ago.
>
> Damn. I'm looking at a box of 50 PMC .45 acp cartriges I paid 10.99 not so long ago.
>
> Well I guess it has been a while, 2001, I looked it up on quicken. I wish my 401K had
> done as well as ammo in major calibers. My Clinton era components stock pile isn't
> looking so crazy after all.
How about your idea that you needed to stockpile in the first place
because Clinton was elected? Have you figured out that was a crazy idea
just like the one going around now that you have to stockpile because
Obama is president? A Democrat in the White House is not a reason to
stockpile ammo. Thinking so is the crazy idea. Always has been, but
that's why the .45 ACP is so hard to find. Things will go back to normal
in a year or so when the panic wears off.
Hawke
Buerste
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hh6kfj$s34$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Join the NRA and get an education about how many and how far reaching new
anti-gun laws are going to be coming up. THEN make those statements. Or,
close your eyes, cover your ears and pretend.
Buerste
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:Q%xZm.211876$Td3.1...@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
There's talk of a "Federal Reloader License" that will be needed in the near
future to buy heavily taxed components.
Gunner Asch
>Wes wrote:
>>
>> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP,
>> forget about it.
>
>We've got .45 ACP in Memphis . 35 bucks a box last time I checked . Makes me
>glad I 've got a few hundred rounds , and components for a few hundred more
>.
Geeze...dont you guys have more than a couple hours shooting at the
range in stock?
Blink blink...
Gunner, who collected (3) 5gallon buckets full of wheel weights today.
Offered and gave the guy $10 for about 300 lbs..maybe 400 lbs of good
clean used wheel weights. Because they will become Illegal in
California on Jan 1st.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766
Greg O
> >
> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP, forget
> about it.
>
>
better, name brand stuff is going for closer to $30. I can buy it most
anywhere, but not alot of boxes on the shelf.
--
Greg O
PoorUB
BS#287
2010 Ultra - Wow!
2005 Ultra, long gone and forgotten
Buerste
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:l1qdj5lndihuqmljp...@4ax.com...
<snip>
> Gunner, who collected (3) 5gallon buckets full of wheel weights today.
> Offered and gave the guy $10 for about 300 lbs..maybe 400 lbs of good
> clean used wheel weights. Because they will become Illegal in
> California on Jan 1st.
>
Wheel weights are as rare as hen's teeth here. I need to BUY lead. Sell me
some ingots please? Those USPS flat-rate boxes work great! I'd be glad to
send you funds PayPal for as much or as little as you will sell.
Buerste
"Greg O" <goo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fNCZm.451752$Jp1.2...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
Reload for $3/box of 50 if you cast free lead.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
You cant get wheel weights? Why the hell not? Some law like California
just put into place or???
I can send you some..but it will be a little while before I get em all
melted down and cast into ingots.
And Ive got 8 more tire shops to hit.
Im looking to have 1 ton of them on hand in the next week or two.
Gunner
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>
>"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>news:lcxZm.409807$Xw3.3...@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com...
>> >
>> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP, forget
>> about it.
>>
>>
>I bought some .45 Blazers the other day for under $20 for 50 rounds. The
>better, name brand stuff is going for closer to $30. I can buy it most
>anywhere, but not alot of boxes on the shelf.
I was in Walmart this afternoon. Good supply of ammo. Priced higher than
I normally see..but not as high as most gun shops.
In another few months...it will be down even more.
Ill need to stock up on a couple more 8 lb kegs of powder though
Gunner Asch
Larry Jaques
<bue...@wowway.com> scrawled the following:
Is that primers, wax, and powder? Or including brass, too?
--
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things
that money can buy." --Tom Clancy
Stormin Mormon
supplies are suddenly worth zero?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Snag" <snag...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:mEzZm.15946$eH1....@newsfe16.iad...
Stormin Mormon
in ammo. Instead of stock market. Ride the ammo up, or keep
the supply for self.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com>
wrote in message
news:Q%xZm.211876$Td3.1...@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
Stormin Mormon
who is above all that. I mean, he's the annointed one, and
all.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Buerste" <bue...@wowway.com>
wrote in message news:B7BZm.1790$Iz5...@newsfe05.iad...
Stormin Mormon
Chicago is a friendly place for gun owners? I bet.... hey,
Hawke. Maybe open and concealed carry in Chicago doesn't
even need government approval or licensing, cause they trust
the citizens with guns? I'm getting so warm and
fuzzy....NOT.
How's that hope and change working out for you? Do you feel
stimulated?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hh6kfj$s34$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Steve B
"Buerste" <bue...@wowway.com> wrote
> Join the NRA and get an education about how many and how far reaching new
> anti-gun laws are going to be coming up. THEN make those statements. Or,
> close your eyes, cover your ears and pretend.
I think that's his most common position. You have described him to a T.
Him and Ed already know everything there is to know, so why let anything new
in?
Steve
Steve B
Shoot. I threw away half a milk crate of them about six months ago.
Steve
Snag
Guns ? What guns ? I don't have any guns . Sold 'em all years ago when Obama
promised to protect me .
Say , you ain't descended from that asshole Brigham Young are you ? Story
goes that he stuck his staff into the ground by a pond and said "This would
be a good place to have a community." . And thus was born Deweyville . They
say the old willow tree next to Blackham's pond is that staff ... more
likely one of it's descendents . Speaking of descendents , if my
daughter-in-law is correct , there was a guy really early in the church
called "Mormon" Coombs . One of 'Ol Joe Smith's henchmen , if the story I
heard is true .
--
Snag
Supposedly one of
my ancestors ...
Steve B
You'll have to excuse Chris. He just top posts short ootsie cutesie posts
so he can have his sig line show up. He's building up points for a temple
recommend.
Steve
Greg O
Sure, after the investment of reloading equipment!
Pretty sure for my 50-100 rounds per year buying ammo is a better deal!
Greg O
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>
50-100 rds a year???? Blink blink...give them away at Holloween or
something?
I shoot a couple hundred everytime I go to the range...which is about 2x
a month or more.
Practice makes perfect..or at the very least..gives one a much larger
chance of staying alive.
Snag
He'd get one faster if he bribed the bishop and ward president ...
My family is almost all mormon , I'm one of the very few who escaped .
--
Snag
Mom & Dad celebrated their
Temple Wedding at
FOE 2919 ...
Buerste
"Steve B" <desert...@fishmail.net> wrote in message
news:g4dk07-...@news.infowest.com...
Notice that Interpol now has complete immunity, thanks to Obammy, and can do
his and the UN's bidding with no accountability. Interpol agents can do any
illegal search and seizures on any American citizen on US soil and citizens
have no rights.
Buerste
What possessed you?
Buerste
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:c3qej552jlq395jso...@4ax.com...
Assume you have old brass. 2.5 cent primer and buy 8 lb. kegs of powder.
Of course you have to have a few hundred in equipment.
Ed Huntress
A complete lie. You're really hitting bottom, Tom. Interpol agents, under
the new agreement, can't do anything they couldn't do before -- which
extends no farther than helping communicate between US law enforcement and
that of other countries. The agreement is about easing diplomatic procedures
to allow coordinated law enforcement against international drug rings, porno
rings, terrorists, and so on work together more quickly.
You bullshitter.
--
Ed Huntress
RogerN
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 01:16:11 -0500, "Buerste" <bue...@wowway.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>>news:l1qdj5lndihuqmljp...@4ax.com...
>><snip>
>>> Gunner, who collected (3) 5gallon buckets full of wheel weights today.
>>> Offered and gave the guy $10 for about 300 lbs..maybe 400 lbs of good
>>> clean used wheel weights. Because they will become Illegal in
>>> California on Jan 1st.
>>>
>>
>>Wheel weights are as rare as hen's teeth here. I need to BUY lead. Sell
>>me
>>some ingots please? Those USPS flat-rate boxes work great! I'd be glad
>>to
>>send you funds PayPal for as much or as little as you will sell.
>
>
> You cant get wheel weights? Why the hell not? Some law like California
> just put into place or???
>
> I can send you some..but it will be a little while before I get em all
> melted down and cast into ingots.
Does the steel pieces in the wheel weights float to the top when you melt
it?
RogerN
<snip>
Gunner Asch
Oh of course..as does the bits of rubber, armorall and all the other
stuff that they may be coated with. So one simply melts them all, and
with a nice large spoon, drilled with 1//8" holes..skims off the nasty
stuff that float to the top.
Oh..dont bother with "tape weights". They dont melt for shit..and
contaminate the mix. Simply weed through em and toss im aside.
and be sure to flux them well with each melt. beeswax is one of the most
common fluxes. A pea sized dollop mixed into the pot brings up all sorts
of nasties.
Wes
>Things will go back to normal
>in a year or so when the panic wears off.
Oh, you mean the 2010 elections when we restore some sanity to Congress.
Wes
>Sure, after the investment of reloading equipment!
>Pretty sure for my 50-100 rounds per year buying ammo is a better deal!
Is 50-100 how much you shoot due to cost?
Wes
RogerN
Once I made a ladle type of thing that I used to cast some muzzle loader
balls. I took a piece of bar, bored a hole in off center to leave a thick
wall on one side and a thin wall on the other side. I drilled a small hole
at an angle from near the outer edge of the stock to the bottom of the
larger bored hole. When tipped, this poured lead out of the small hole
taking lead from the bottom of the ladle. I got the idea from self skimming
ladles, I guess most of the bullet casting melters pour from the bottom
also? If I remember correctly, battery lead isn't good for bullet casting?
A general rule for bullets, apply liberally :-)
RogerN
cavelamb
>> Notice that Interpol now has complete immunity, thanks to Obammy, and can
>> do his and the UN's bidding with no accountability. Interpol agents can
>> do any illegal search and seizures on any American citizen on US soil and
>> citizens have no rights.
>
> A complete lie. You're really hitting bottom, Tom. Interpol agents, under
> the new agreement, can't do anything they couldn't do before -- which
> extends no farther than helping communicate between US law enforcement and
> that of other countries. The agreement is about easing diplomatic procedures
> to allow coordinated law enforcement against international drug rings, porno
> rings, terrorists, and so on work together more quickly.
>
> You bullshitter.
>
In the early 1980s, when we were trying so hard to advance personal computers
so that everyone would have the power, I never foresaw how it was really going
to turn out...
We all thought "Computer Power To The People" would be the beast thing that
could happen. Like the Colts (yes, it was Colts, not Colt's) 45 was the great
equalizer of the 1800s, this would be the great equalizer of the 20th century.
We (and certainly I) never realized how negative a tool it would turn out to be.
How much DIS-information could be circulated (so damned fast) and how so many
people would be so driven by their own preconceptions.
I guess the jury is still out on that question.
But it makes me sad to see it all wasted - so willingly.
cavelamb
I'm of a different political persuasion...
Apply conservatively.
Ed Huntress
"cavelamb" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t6KdndIzf9P4YKrW...@earthlink.com...
Sharp thoughts. Good ones, too.
--
Ed Huntress
Larry Jaques
<bue...@wowway.com> scrawled the following:
Yeah. If I shot much, I'd buy it and it'd be under a year for my ROI.
For folks like Henry Bowman, the ROI would be, oh, a couple minutes.
;)
But if it's soon going to be illegal, <insert angry statement you'll
regret here>...
Larry Jaques
<clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>Things will go back to normal
>>in a year or so when the panic wears off.
>
>Oh, you mean the 2010 elections when we restore some sanity to Congress.
Parakeet doesn't seem to think that the mandated healthcare costs will
cause yet another, greater, panic. He sure doesn't think ahead much,
does he?
Wes
>>Oh, you mean the 2010 elections when we restore some sanity to Congress.
>
>Parakeet doesn't seem to think that the mandated healthcare costs will
>cause yet another, greater, panic. He sure doesn't think ahead much,
>does he?
I really think the plan is to drive private health insurance out of business.
My opposite thought is the liberals running the show have no grasp of economics.
Either one has the same result.
Gunner Asch
Some casters cast using a ladle from the top, others ..like myself are
lazy and tend to use lever activated bottom pours. They both have
things for and against them. Probably the best bullets are poured from
properly heated, properly fluxed and clean lead via ladle. But the
differences are small and only the purist really notices.
Battery lead..is exceptionally high in calcium and other stabilizing
metals..and when they are used up...tend to be filled with a horrendous
number of oxides and trace metals that really makes them worthless for
bullet making. Melting them down is hard enough..and by the time you
skim off all the crap that comes to the top..your pot is almost empty.
Crom knows Ive tried every possible way to melt down batteries. As have
countless others...all futily.
It should also be noted..that pure lead..suitable for black powder
guns..is pretty easy to cast good, well filled bullets through a wide
range of heats.
Alloys..from wheel weights to #2 and other alloys..are far more touchy
about their mix, their heats, their fluxes and how you cast them.
A well experienced caster can cast nearly anything..but beginners and
the novice...need some assistance when casting even wheelweights when
they first try, unless they read all the documents available and go
about it systematically.
After having cast hummm...probably a half million bullets in 35 yrs...I
find it boring as hell and tedious..mindless work that I can do
virtually asleep. But...thats not true for new casters.
Gunner
>A general rule for bullets, apply liberally :-)
>
>
>
>RogerN
>
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
Buerste
> In the early 1980s, when we were trying so hard to advance personal
> computers
> so that everyone would have the power, I never foresaw how it was really
> going to turn out...
>
> We all thought "Computer Power To The People" would be the beast thing
> that could happen. Like the Colts (yes, it was Colts, not Colt's) 45 was
> the great
> equalizer of the 1800s, this would be the great equalizer of the 20th
> century.
>
> We (and certainly I) never realized how negative a tool it would turn out
> to be.
> How much DIS-information could be circulated (so damned fast) and how so
> many
> people would be so driven by their own preconceptions.
>
> I guess the jury is still out on that question.
>
> But it makes me sad to see it all wasted - so willingly.
>
Some people believe only the best of a situation without noticing the doors
opened wide to other people with evil intent. It's nice to believe that
Interpol is totally a force for good in the world but there are others that
can and will try to pervert this for their own gain or to further their
agenda. History has a few examples. So, for those that believe that
Interpol's latest immunity is just fine, they need to consider that now an
American citizen has no right to any records or access to any evidence that
Interpol has against them which usurps the Constitution. It also means that
any Interpol files on US politicians are immune from any attempt to bring
them into the light of day...how convenient. Interpol is now above the
jurisdiction of all US law enforcement agencies. Interpol's central
operations office in the United States is within our own Justice Department
offices. They are American law enforcement officers working under the aegis
of INTERPOL within our own Justice Department. That they now operate with
full diplomatic immunity and with "inviolable archives" from within our own
buildings should send red flags soaring into the clouds. Why is an
international law enforcement arm assisting the ICC, a court we are not a
signatory to, has been elevated above our Constitution upon our soil?
I'm sorry if I DIS-informed you. I would LOVE to be shown my errors.
sta...@prolynx.com
> "Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>
> news:d0mfj59gkc0bcgfbp...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:12:34 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>
> >>"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> >>news:d5eej5t19mkiv0f23...@4ax.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Battery lead is mostly lead oxide of one form or another, with lead
sulfate if the battery is really old and cruddy. There's calcium and
some arsenic in there, one helps with the "zero-maintenance" and the
other stiffens the lead sieves they call plates now. You aren't going
to smelt lead oxide or sulfate back to elemental lead in the basement
unless you want to become a Superfund site, the calcium will generate
arsine gas when the dross gets wet, not good stuff, either. So
batteries are best left for the recycler guys. Maybe trade for some
wheelweights, if you can.
My experience has been that the bullets with the most consistent
weights are produced with a ladle, not a bottom pour pot and you need
about 20 lbs of metal to keep enough on hand without feeding the pot
all the time and upsetting the casting temperature. A commercial
caster told me that, too. I've got enough ladles on hand from the
regular Lyman to plumber's ones that'll handle 30-40 lbs at a time.
My granddad was a plumber, I've got a lot of stuff I inherited.
When you start in melting scrap, a plumber's lead furnace is very
handly. The ones I use will melt about 100 lbs in 20-30 minutes.
I've got cast iron crucibles big enough to do the job. Wheelweights
can be stinky, plumbing scrap is worse. I've got enough ladles, but
one of these:
http://www.theantimonyman.com/ladles.htm
would be handy when trying to pour clean ingots. Biggest problem is
trying to keep the ingot molds cool enough so the lead doesn't take a
half-hour to cool off so I can pour more. If you don't like to spend
money on ingot molds, you can use thrift store aluminum biscuit tins,
as long as they're not reused for the original purpose. I stamp each
ingot with "WW" for wheelweights, "PL" for pure lead, actual hardness
for other alloys. I've got an original LBT lead hardness tester, Lee
makes one now that's theoretically sound and not too expensive.
Stan
Gunner Asch
It wont be illegal. The people attempting to make it illegal will be
dead.
Gunner
Hawke
>>> Damn. I'm looking at a box of 50 PMC .45 acp cartriges I paid 10.99
>>> not so long ago. Well I guess it has been a while, 2001, I looked it
>>> up on quicken. I wish my 401K had
>>> done as well as ammo in major calibers. My Clinton era components
>>> stock pile isn't
>>> looking so crazy after all.
>>
>> How about your idea that you needed to stockpile in the first place
>> because Clinton was elected? Have you figured out that was a crazy
>> idea just like the one going around now that you have to stockpile
>> because Obama is president? A Democrat in the White House is not a
>> reason to stockpile ammo. Thinking so is the crazy idea. Always has
>> been, but that's why the .45 ACP is so hard to find. Things will go
>>
>
> Join the NRA and get an education about how many and how far reaching
> new anti-gun laws are going to be coming up. THEN make those
> statements. Or, close your eyes, cover your ears and pretend.
I used to be a member of the NRA but I dropped it because I got tired of
the constant requests for donations. Besides, I already have all the
guns I need. I live in California where the gun laws are as strict as
anywhere and I'm still am able to buy just about anything I want. And I
don't need the NRA to tell me what laws are coming. I know about them
from plenty of other sources. Every time the NRA contacts you they ask
for money. I got sick of it. They get over 300 million a year in
donations. I think that is more than adequate. You join. It sounds like
you need them to open your eyes and ears and your mind.
Hawke
Hawke
Steve B
After you move something that heavy that many times, one day you just snap!
Sorry. I know better than that. There's always a use for things sometimes.
I can understand how people hoard things. There's areas around my shop that
I say, "Don't go out there." So, you toss it, then you need it very soon
afterward. There's no winning.
Steve.
Steve B
"Snag" <snag...@comcast.net> wrote
> He'd get one faster if he bribed the bishop and ward president ...
> My family is almost all mormon , I'm one of the very few who escaped .
> --
> Snag
> Mom & Dad celebrated their
> Temple Wedding at
> FOE 2919 ...
I'm also a son of perdition. I know lots of good people who follow the
Mormon faith. It's just the scripture I disagree with.
Steve
Hawke
> You mean I'm mistaken about the Clinton gun bans? And that
> Chicago is a friendly place for gun owners? I bet.... hey,
> Hawke. Maybe open and concealed carry in Chicago doesn't
> even need government approval or licensing, cause they trust
> the citizens with guns? I'm getting so warm and
> fuzzy....NOT.
>
> How's that hope and change working out for you? Do you feel
> stimulated?
>
I'm seeing signs all over the place that things are turning around.
Aren't you? Christmas is supposed to be a lot better this year than
last. The stock market has made up a lot of what was lost. 2010 is
looking like it's going to be better than this year. I see plenty of
signs that the repairs Obama has done are starting to bear fruit. I
haven't seen hide nor hair of any new federal gun control laws though
and Obama's been president nearly a year. Makes you wonder why he hasn't
taken everyone's guns away already. Maybe the idea he's an anti gun
president is a hoax perpetuated by political enemies. Republicans
wouldn't lie, would they?
Hawke
Hawke
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:26:34 -0500, the infamous Wes
> <clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>
>> Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>> Things will go back to normal
>>> in a year or so when the panic wears off.
>> Oh, you mean the 2010 elections when we restore some sanity to Congress.
>
> Parakeet doesn't seem to think that the mandated healthcare costs will
> cause yet another, greater, panic. He sure doesn't think ahead much,
> does he?
If you had the sense to listen to what I have said over the past couple
of years you would have to admit that everything I have predicted has
come to pass. I said Bush would be a terrible president. He was. I said
the republicans would ruin the country. They did. I said Obama would
defeat McCain. He did. I said health care was going to pass. It will.
Don't be so positive that the republicans are going to make big gains in
the next election. Republicans will probably pick up some seats in
Congress but will they get a majority in either house? No. So you're
going to be so sad again in 2010 just like you were in 2008.
Hawke
Hawke
>> Wheel weights are as rare as hen's teeth here. I need to BUY lead. Sell me
>> some ingots please? Those USPS flat-rate boxes work great! I'd be glad to
>> send you funds PayPal for as much or as little as you will sell.
>
>
> just put into place or???
>
> I can send you some..but it will be a little while before I get em all
> melted down and cast into ingots.
>
>
> Im looking to have 1 ton of them on hand in the next week or two.
Maybe that'll be useful to you in the next lifetime. Because you aren't
going to have any use for it in this one. Sounds like he's a candidate
for the TV show Hoarders.
Hawke
Ed Huntress
>
> "cavelamb" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:t6KdndIzf9P4YKrW...@earthlink.com...
> <snip>
>> In the early 1980s, when we were trying so hard to advance personal
>> computers
>> so that everyone would have the power, I never foresaw how it was really
>> going to turn out...
>>
>> We all thought "Computer Power To The People" would be the beast thing
>> that could happen. Like the Colts (yes, it was Colts, not Colt's) 45 was
>> the great
>> equalizer of the 1800s, this would be the great equalizer of the 20th
>> century.
>>
>> We (and certainly I) never realized how negative a tool it would turn out
>> to be.
>> How much DIS-information could be circulated (so damned fast) and how so
>> many
>> people would be so driven by their own preconceptions.
>>
>> I guess the jury is still out on that question.
>>
>> But it makes me sad to see it all wasted - so willingly.
>>
>
> Some people believe only the best of a situation without noticing the
> doors opened wide to other people with evil intent.
And some people have been drinking the right-wing Kool-Aid, seeing a
conspiracy behind every door.
> It's nice to believe that Interpol is totally a force for good in the
> world but there are others that can and will try to pervert this for their
> own gain or to further their agenda. History has a few examples. So, for
> those that believe that Interpol's latest immunity is just fine, they need
> to consider that now an American citizen has no right to any records or
> access to any evidence that Interpol has against them which usurps the
> Constitution.
Not true. Interpol cannot arrest US citizens on US soil. No "evidence" they
may accumulate can be used in a US court unless it is made available to the
defense, and it's subject to the same laws of evidence that apply to any
prosecution. That includes evidence that provides suspicion leading to an
arrest.
These changes enacted by the latest Exec. Order are mostly about taxes,
giving Interpol standard diplomatic privileges, which Reagan had rescinded
for some reason (he was very pissed at the UN then; maybe that's what it
was), in 1983. They had been in force since 1947. That's what Obama is
restoring.
The "no seizure" provision, again, is standard diplomatic privilege. We've
extended it to all international and diplomatic agencies since 1947. It has
no effect on what can be used in court.
> It also means that any Interpol files on US politicians are immune from
> any attempt to bring them into the light of day...how convenient.
Standard diplomacy for foreign agencies, short of embassy employees. The
same privilege is extended to the US FBI when it operates in foreign
countries, as well as to many other non-State Department US agencies. If
they're State, they get full diplomatic privileges.
Unlike embassy employees, the president can rescind the privileges of any
individual or organization at any time, for any reason. In other words, if
we want to arrest them, we can arrest them.
> Interpol is now above the jurisdiction of all US law enforcement agencies.
> Interpol's central operations office in the United States is within our
> own Justice Department offices. They are American law enforcement officers
> working under the aegis of INTERPOL within our own Justice Department.
Nonsense. That is a communication and coordination office (USNCB) that
coordinates law enforcement information from 16 US law-enforcement agencies
with the data resources of Interpol. It's been there for decades.
Here's a good, short description of what USNCB is about:
http://www.answers.com/topic/interpol-united-states-national-central-bureau
> That they now operate with full diplomatic immunity...
They do NOT have full diplomatic immunity. Under the provisions of the
International Organizations Immunities Act, they have limited diplomatic
privileges. It's the same privileges almost all foreign-government agencies
have had since 1947.
> and with "inviolable archives" from within our own buildings should send
> red flags soaring into the clouds.
Oh, Christ. Those are US LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS who make up the USNCB.
> Why is an international law enforcement arm assisting the ICC, a court we
> are not a signatory to, has been elevated above our Constitution upon our
> soil?
You're over the top, Tawwwwwm.
>
> I'm sorry if I DIS-informed you. I would LOVE to be shown my errors.
Well, then, you're going to LOVE this:
First, Obama's order, EO13524:
"By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws
of the United States of America, including section 1 of the International
Organizations Immunities Act (22 U.S.C. 288), and in order to extend the
appropriate privileges, exemptions, and immunities to the International
Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL), it is hereby ordered that Executive
Order 12425 of June 16, 1983, as amended, is further amended by deleting
from the first sentence the words "except those provided by Section 2(c),
Section 3, Section 4, Section 5, and Section 6 of that Act" and the
semicolon that immediately precedes them."
Next, Reagan's order of 1983, EO12425, which the above modifies:
"By virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution
and statutes of the United States, including Section 1 of the International
Organizations Immunities Act (59 Stat. 669, 22 U.S.C. 288), it is hereby
ordered that the International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL), in
which the United States participates pursuant to 22 U.S.C. 263a, is hereby
designated as a public international organization entitled to enjoy the
privileges, exemptions and immunities conferred by the International
Organizations Immunities Act; except those provided by Section 2(c), the
portions of Section 2(d) and Section 3 relating to customs duties and
federal internal-revenue importation taxes, Section 4, Section 5, and
Section 6 of that Act. This designation is not intended to abridge in any
respect the privileges, exemptions or immunities which such organization may
have acquired or may acquire by international agreement or by Congressional
action."
Now, I'd paste in Section 2(c) and Sections 3, 4, 5, and 6, except that the
original is a scan and I can't cut and paste. Here's where you can see it
for yourself:
http://www.ipu.org/finance-e/PL79-291.pdf
That's all there is to it. Mostly it's tax exemptions. The property-seizure
provisions are provided to a very long list of organizations, including the
European Bank. <g> There is nothing new here. We cooperated with Interpol
under the SAME provisions for years before 1983. Maybe Ronnie had a bug up
his ass.
Two more points: Clinton had already removed the Section 3 provisions with
an EO in 1995. And some of the right-wing conspiracy blogs seem to have
gotten confused about the difference between the "original Act," referred to
in the EOs above and linked to, also above, and the US Code statute that
addresses most of the Act: 22 U.S.C. 288. Don't let them confuse you. The
act that both Reagan and Obama refer to is the one with the link just above.
Now, do you LOVE all of this information? Or are you gearing up to find
spelling errors, and to interpret all of those provisions as if they were
written as part of a conspiracy, in 1947? <g>
--
Ed Huntress
[If someone would copy this whole message, Tawwwwm will see it. He claims
not to read my messages.]
Greg O
Nope, money does not have anything to do with it, just time. Too many other
priorities out there.
I ride motorcycle...... allot! If the sun it shinning, and I am off the
clock, I try to be riding somewhere. Not unusual for the missus and I to go
for a 2-3 day run somewhere at the drop of a hat. I have ridden with Snag
from this group on occasion, even though we live 1200+ miles apart.
Greg O
cavelamb
cavelamb
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:26:34 -0500, the infamous Wes
> <clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>
>> Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>> Things will go back to normal
>>> in a year or so when the panic wears off.
>> Oh, you mean the 2010 elections when we restore some sanity to Congress.
>
> Parakeet doesn't seem to think that the mandated healthcare costs will
> cause yet another, greater, panic. He sure doesn't think ahead much,
> does he?
>
true.
But then neither do we...
cavelamb
Can you cast .380?
If so, I'd like to try some of your shot.
Yeah, I know you consider it a sub-standard round.
But it's what I've got...
can you?
Maybe ship along with my ship fitting.
And Yes, I'll shoot it.
Aw hell, Guns, I ain't no brighter than you...
cavelamb
Cool Greg.
We do that under sail...
Ed Huntress
>I blame it all on George Killian....
Maybe Killian's Red.
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Bravo sir..bravo indeed. A clear and concise summation!
Gunner Asch
Very good post!
Ive made a number of ingot molds by simply welding 1.25 L steel together
in a [VVVV] shape, with a bar across the ends. Each one is 6" long..so
the ingots are long triangular bars that can be easily dropped into a
finish melting pot and they dont take long to melt and come up to
temperature.
I generally run 3 moulds at a time, bottom pouring..and keep the temp up
about 50F higher than should be..as I use a lot of lead in a fairly
short time, and am constantly adding a new bar into the melt.
After rough melting..and cleaning off the dreck and dross..I dump the
metal into the home made moulds, push one asside and then file the
next..and the next..until I have about 4 filled..where upon I can dump
the first one, refill and then dump the 2nd one..now the first in
line...<G> and so forth. Doesnt take long to empty out a big rough pot.
Btw..I usually have a natural gas powered 12" bullplug pot/bottom pour
arraingement for rough melting..using a menudo cooker ring..but I loaned
it out a few years ago..and the guy promptly moved out of state...the
bastard....
So Im going to have to build a new one..damnit
azotic
Makes one long for J. Edgar Hoover and the good old days.
Best Regards
Tom.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
I may..may have a 90gr mould for .380. Maybe.
Ive got somewhere in the order of 50 or so moulds in the cabinet.
Ill check just as soon as I get back from LA.
And finish your ship fitting. I checked stock..and the shelf that
contained what I thought was SS..was aluminum.
Got lots of aluminum blocks of all sizes..and nothing but bars of
Stainless steel. When I set that pallet out with the rounds of titanium
on it..my memory is telling me they were sitting on blocks of Stainless
steel;..of all sizes and types. No wonder the asshole who stole it was
happy to get "$89 for the shiney metal and all that aluminum (titanium)"
Seems that stroke keeps feeding me backslides at the worst possible
time.
If I have to..Ill simply by some Stainless and hog it out. I spent most
of today cleaning the back yard after the rain last night...and
continuing to attack the Larios mill with a wire wheel. Nearly time to
mask it and shoot it. Ill have photos of it by next Sunday..as I start
to install the new electrical system.
Then I can do your ship fitting. Ive already made up a fixture, got the
cutters in a plastic tray with the print and pulled the rotory table off
the mill. Fuck me..but that 14" Troyke is a heavy son of a
bitch..gagh! Back is still killing me.
Oh! I was cleaning out my old SafteyKleen parts washer to give it to my
buddy..and I think..think..think I found the gib for the Hales mill. Its
about the right length thickness..so I reverently placed it on the mill
table. Got a buddy cutting a new 5/8 Acme nut for it..and if its the
right gib...Im fucking Golden! I can put that sonobitch back together
and have it up in running in only a couple hours. Whoooeeee!!! Its only
been sitting there next to the Larios for...hummm...nearly 5 yrs.
>
>can you?
>
>
>Maybe ship along with my ship fitting.
>
>And Yes, I'll shoot it.
>
>
>
>Aw hell, Guns, I ain't no brighter than you...
>
You sell yourself short. You are a pretty smart dude..and me..Im just a
harmless lovable fuzzball whose brain isnt back to full order yet..if it
ever will be. While it works pretty well..it aint up to what it was
...14 months ago.
Life does go on however.
Oh..can you load the bullets?.or are you looking for loaded ammo? Im
pretty short on .380 brass.
Gunner
Lib Loo
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hh9cua$rhd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> You mean I'm mistaken about the Clinton gun bans? And that Chicago is a
>> friendly place for gun owners? I bet.... hey, Hawke. Maybe open and
>> concealed carry in Chicago doesn't even need government approval or
>> licensing, cause they trust the citizens with guns? I'm getting so warm
>> and fuzzy....NOT.
>>
>> How's that hope and change working out for you? Do you feel stimulated?
>>
>
> I'm seeing signs all over the place that things are turning around. Aren't
> you? Christmas is supposed to be a lot better this year than last.
Dude, did you just wake from a coma? You missed it by a couple of days.
> The stock market has made up a lot of what was lost.
It's still down about 4000 from when Obama decided to run.
> 2010 is looking like it's going to be better than this year.
Yes, indeedy.
Lib Loo
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hh9ec0$sik$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
You're still having trouble making the connection between his wanting lead
and the subject of the thread huh? Here's a clue, BANG!
Buerste
>
> Bravo sir..bravo indeed. A clear and concise summation!
>
> Gunner
Notice the libs shouting "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"?
How come the State-Controlled Media said not-one-word? If this was so good
for the country and our rights as citizens... And rest assured, we'll NEVER
hear about any actions taken by a foreign force operating with impunity on
American soil against Americans.
Buerste
Always. My move to the country 6 months ago turned me into a minimalist, we
filled a 40 yd dumpster with usable stuff that nobody wanted and that was
after all the usual charities had their fill. The factory is a different
matter all together.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Or it was a rather veiled threat to kill me.
If it was..I respond quite strongly to such threats. Ive survived many
of them. The threateners....some have not survived. But..the Parakeet
is nothing more than a 350lb fat boy trapped in his moms basement in
some shithole of a town..so Ill not worry about him whatsoever.
If he was an actual threat..he wouldnt survive to be killed in the Great
Cull in less than 3 yrs.
Shrug
Snag
Greg didn't mention that we both hang out over at rec.motorcycles.harley ,
aka The Virtual Bar & Grill . One newsgroup that really does carry over into
our daily lives . Made a lot of good friends from there , including Greg and
Annie .
--
Snag
I like to
ride too ...
Ed Huntress
"azotic" <azo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:80_Zm.639$yy2...@newsfe01.iad...
J. Edgar Hoover is the one who pushed to bring Interpol to the US. He found
them to be very useful.
--
Ed Huntress
Steve B
>>>>>> Gunner, who collected (3) 5gallon buckets full of wheel weights
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>> Offered and gave the guy $10 for about 300 lbs..maybe 400 lbs of good
>>>>>> clean used wheel weights. Because they will become Illegal in
>>>>>> California on Jan 1st.
What is the reasoning behind that?
Steve
John R. Carroll
They won't be illegal in California.
Under the settlement, Chrysler will end the use of factory-installed lead
wheel weights in vehicles sold in California by July 31, 2009. In addition,
wheel-weight producer Plombco Inc. of Canada will end shipments of lead
wheel weights to California by the end of this year. Producers Perfect
Equipment Inc. and Hennessey Industries, both based in LaVergne, Tenn., will
stop shipments to California by the end of 2009.
"We are pleased that the court has approved settlement of this matter so
that we can move forward with our aggressive plans to eliminate the use of
lead wheel weights in our products," a Chrysler spokesman said. "By the end
of this month, we expect that all of the vehicles we produce will be
equipped with wheel weights made from alternate materials -- 11 months ahead
of the schedule set in the settlement agreement in California."
Lead wheel weights have been under attack for several years by
environmentalists. They were banned by the European Union in 2005 and are
being phased out in Japan and Korea. The U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency is sponsoring a voluntary initiative to reduce the use of lead wheel
weights but has not banned them.
Goodyear and other big tire makers are already phasing them out, as are all
the major automakers.
"For environmental reasons, this is the direction the industry is going,"
said a spokesman for Goodyear, which has 83 company-owned tire stores in
California.
http://www.ceh.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=323&Itemid=243
--
John R. Carroll
cavelamb
That would be a sweet find - somewhere under all that stuff...
I hope it works out that way.
Don't worry about bullets, though.
All this talk about reloading makes me wish I could, but
I don't have the equipment, and in the end, it won't fit
aboard the boat...
I checked this morning and have 600 rounds of .380.
F. George McDuffee
<davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
<snip>
>The stock market has made up a lot of what was lost.
This seems to be where most of the problem started.
People don't live and work on Wall Street but on Main Street.
Wall Street adds very little if any value to its transactions and
subtracts much.
In general you are not seeing the economy" improve when the Dow,
Russell or NASDAQ jumps but rather one or more bubble inflating,
and capital being diverted from productive uses into speculation.
When the bubbles popped the last time, over 40% of American
corporate profits were being generated by speculation and other
financial manipulation.
Unka George
(George McDuffee)
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Steve B
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:zrudnaTfL-W4dKXW...@giganews.com...
Is it really that big a deal? I'm asking that as an uninformed person. I
remember when lead shot was restricted, and steel shot and bismuth was
substituted. People still duck hunt, so I guess it all worked out. Did the
tree huggers move on to something else? Are the new weights made of
"alternate materials" going to be something exotic that costs a lot more?
Just wondering.
Steve
John R. Carroll
> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:zrudnaTfL-W4dKXW...@giganews.com...
>> Steve B wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Gunner, who collected (3) 5gallon buckets full of wheel
>>>>>>>>> weights today.
>>>>>>>>> Offered and gave the guy $10 for about 300 lbs..maybe 400 lbs
>>>>>>>>> of good clean used wheel weights. Because they will become
>>>>>>>>> Illegal in California on Jan 1st.
>>>
>>> What is the reasoning behind that?
>>>
>>
>> They won't be illegal in California.
>>
>>
>> Under the settlement, Chrysler will end the use of factory-installed
>> lead wheel weights in vehicles sold in California by July 31, 2009.
>> In addition,
>> wheel-weight producer Plombco Inc. of Canada will end shipments of
>> lead wheel weights to California by the end of this year. Producers
>> Perfect Equipment Inc. and Hennessey Industries, both based in
>> LaVergne, Tenn., will
>> stop shipments to California by the end of 2009.
>>
>
> person.
It might be. There are something like 70 million cars on the roads here and
they all have wheel weights.
The average, as reported anyway, is two per tire so that would be 560
million pieces.
>I remember when lead shot was restricted, and steel shot and
> bismuth was substituted. People still duck hunt, so I guess it all
> worked out. Did the tree huggers move on to something else? Are the
> new weights made of "alternate materials" going to be something
> exotic that costs a lot more? Just wondering.
Nothing exotic but yes, they are 50 percent more expensive. The logic is
that an additional $0.25 each isn't meaningful when compared to the cost of
a tire or removing lead from the water supply. That's probably true.
The US is well behind the curve on this. Even Korea has banned lead weights
and they used to put up with just about anything.
I doubt that the United States will ever have a law banning lead wheel
weights because it simply won't be needed.
--
John R. Carroll
F. George McDuffee
<davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
<snip>
>The stock market has made up a lot of what was lost.
<snip>
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703991304574621903850508632.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular
<snip>
Despite its 2009 rebound, the Dow Jones Industrial Average today
stands at just 10520.10, no higher than in 1999. And that is
without counting consumer-price inflation. In 1999 dollars, the
Dow is only at about 8200 and would have to rise another 28% or
so to return to 1999 levels. Using today's dollars and starting
at 10520.10, the Dow would have to surpass 13460 to get back to
its 1999 level in real, inflation-adjusted terms.
<snip>
Larry Jaques
<clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>>Oh, you mean the 2010 elections when we restore some sanity to Congress.
>>
>>Parakeet doesn't seem to think that the mandated healthcare costs will
>>cause yet another, greater, panic. He sure doesn't think ahead much,
>>does he?
>
>I really think the plan is to drive private health insurance out of business.
>
>My opposite thought is the liberals running the show have no grasp of economics.
>
>Either one has the same result.
Both thoughts are probably 100% on target. <sigh>
"So, has the shooting started yet?"
--
It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars.
-- Garrison Keillor
Steve B
"John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
Sorry, just tired of all this "THE SKY IS FALLING" BS like global warming.
Yes, there are some things we need to look at, and lead and mercury have
always been at the top. With all the vehicles now, I guess lead has moved
up.
Steve
Lib Loo
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:enuhj55u3iagfdq9t...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:41:46 -0800, Hawke
> <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>>The stock market has made up a lot of what was lost.
> <snip>
> FYI
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703991304574621903850508632.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular
> <snip>
> Despite its 2009 rebound, the Dow Jones Industrial Average today
> stands at just 10520.10, no higher than in 1999. And that is
> without counting consumer-price inflation. In 1999 dollars, the
> Dow is only at about 8200 and would have to rise another 28% or
> so to return to 1999 levels. Using today's dollars and starting
> at 10520.10, the Dow would have to surpass 13460 to get back to
> its 1999 level in real, inflation-adjusted terms.
> <snip>
>
>
Don't confuse Hack with facts. Obama claimed he wanted to return us to the
days of Clinton, and so he has.
Larry Jaques
<desert...@fishmail.net> scrawled the following:
You don't know about the extremely deadly substance known as
"plumbium", sir? Lead is being phased out of everything known to man,
especially in the Republik of Kalifornia.
Other known carcinogens and toxins include asbestos (95% of which is
the non-"deadly" type), toluene, and silicone (Malibu Barbie now has
to use saline implants.)
For more info on the OLD stuff, see:
http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/p65faq.html
I dunno about the newest ridicule coming from there. I moved out 7
years ago.
I got interested in the lead thing in CA and just did some research on
the site. Their reports and research are mainly from 1976 (a few are
as "recent" as a -decade- ago), but they just banned lead bullets in
2007. Unreal! Fracking liberals.
--
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things
that money can buy." --Tom Clancy
Hawke
If you have a .380 why would you want to use lead bullets? Guns that
shoot .380 ammo are not good for anything but short range self defensive
purposes. They are not guns that people shoot very much. If you aren't
planning on putting thousands of rounds downrange from you gun then
there is no reason to shoot lead bullets. This kind of weapon is really
only good for one thing, self defense, and for that what you want is the
best hollow point ammunition you can buy. Buy something cheap like
Blazer ammo for practice and use a premium cartridge like Gold Dot or
Cor-Bon for self defense. If you want a gun that shoots lead bullets and
is good for lots of shooting get a 1911.
Hawke
Hawke
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:41:46 -0800, Hawke
> <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>> The stock market has made up a lot of what was lost.
> <snip>
> FYI
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703991304574621903850508632.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular
> <snip>
> Despite its 2009 rebound, the Dow Jones Industrial Average today
> stands at just 10520.10, no higher than in 1999. And that is
> without counting consumer-price inflation. In 1999 dollars, the
> Dow is only at about 8200 and would have to rise another 28% or
> so to return to 1999 levels. Using today's dollars and starting
> at 10520.10, the Dow would have to surpass 13460 to get back to
> its 1999 level in real, inflation-adjusted terms.
> <snip>
Yeah, it's not really all that great. But remember, it could be a lot
worse. After letting the republicans run things in Washington, uh,
actually I mean letting them leave business to run things in Washington,
we're not that bad off. Last time the government let business run the
country we got the Great Depression. So in comparison were better off.
Truth is republicans/business fucked the country just as bad as they did
in '29. The only difference is this time the government jumped in and
did the right moves to fix things. That made a big difference. It's not
going to take 13 years to get us back this time. Unless we make the
mistake of handing the reigns over to the republicans again.
Hawke
Hawke
Don't you think you need a few tons of lead? Gummer thinks he'll use
his. Do you think he will? Or is it just the tendency to acquire stuff
you don't need and then hoard it? As someone that is getting up there in
age my self I know I don't have a lifetime ahead of me. I'm not ever
going to use a lot of stuff I thought I needed. Some people never learn
that and go on acquiring junk they will never use. Lead, need a few tons?
Hawke
Lib Loo
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hhbcgs$662$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> As someone that is getting up there in age my self I know I don't have a
> lifetime ahead of me. I'm not ever going to use a lot of stuff I thought I
> needed.
You are some kind of a pack rat then? Do you think it's because of your old
age, or did this syndrome start before, when you were younger?
> Some people never learn that and go on acquiring junk they will never use.
Some people, or just you projecting again? You sound like just the kind of
person you are accusing Gunner of being (except probably uglier and with
limpy wrists).
Steve B
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:qf6ij5d5neal9a2ub...@4ax.com...
MUST go to San Diego in a week to get on a cruise ship. Otherwise, I avoid
the place completely. You want to wear rubber lined cotton gloves they have
so many warning signs that everything you can touch, eat, or see will give
you cancer. They need to fly airplanes around with banners saying, "DO NOT
BREATHE. YOU EMIT CO2 AND THE AIR YOU INHALE WILL GIVE YOU CANCER."
Steve
RogerN
>
<snip>
> After having cast hummm...probably a half million bullets in 35 yrs...I
> find it boring as hell and tedious..mindless work that I can do
> virtually asleep. But...thats not true for new casters.
>
> Gunner
I enjoy automating boring and tedious, mindless work. Perhaps an air
cylinder to open & close the mold, a solenoid for a plunger in the lead pot,
and a couple of thermocouples or RTD's to measure temperature of lead and
the mold. The program would probably consist of mostly timers and
temperature controls, may take some tinkering to get it right but I should
be pretty consistent, might need some adjustment from batches of different
alloys. Maybe the mold could be designed to allow the sprue to be trimmed
before removal, something like my lee round ball mold.
It would be nice to be able to feed it lead and let a bucket fill up with
cast bullets! I wonder if the sizing, lubing, and installation of gas
checks would be automation friendly? Perhaps help supply for the bullet
shortage...
I bought some load cells on eBay that should be able to weigh to 0.1 grain,
my intention is to make an automated powder scale similar to the RCBS. The
load cells have a 200 Gram capacity and should be able to measure powder by
lifting a cartridge, taring out, and dispensing to within 0.1 grain.
RogerN
Wes
>Nothing exotic but yes, they are 50 percent more expensive. The logic is
>that an additional $0.25 each isn't meaningful when compared to the cost of
>a tire or removing lead from the water supply. That's probably true.
So, painting the weights wasn't cost effective?
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
John R. Carroll
> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>
>> Nothing exotic but yes, they are 50 percent more expensive. The
>> logic is that an additional $0.25 each isn't meaningful when
>> compared to the cost of a tire or removing lead from the water
>> supply. That's probably true.
>
>
> So, painting the weights wasn't cost effective?
How would painting the weights prevent them from being ground up and
dissolved into the water table?
That, apparently, is what happens and is why the EU, Korea, Japan and others
have banned them.
Anyway, it would seem that what Gunner posted - that they would be illegal
A/O Jan. 1 - is a bunch of crap.
What a surprise....
--
John R. Carroll
Wes
>Don't you think you need a few tons of lead? Gummer thinks he'll use
>his. Do you think he will? Or is it just the tendency to acquire stuff
>you don't need and then hoard it? As someone that is getting up there in
>age my self I know I don't have a lifetime ahead of me. I'm not ever
>going to use a lot of stuff I thought I needed. Some people never learn
>that and go on acquiring junk they will never use. Lead, need a few tons?
>
A ton of lead in grains
14000000
Number of 230g bullets
60869.56522
Days of shooting 100 rounds
608.6956522
Years a ton lasts.
1.66651787
Wes
>Both thoughts are probably 100% on target. <sigh>
Sadly so.
>
>"So, has the shooting started yet?"
I'm not into that. We sure don't need another, cough, 'Civil War'.
Wes
>If you had the sense to listen to what I have said over the past couple
>of years you would have to admit that everything I have predicted has
>come to pass. I said Bush would be a terrible president.
I'm not going to make a case that he was great. The alternatives, were and are still far
worse.
>He was. I said
>the republicans would ruin the country. They did.
It was running fairly fine until the dems took over congress. 2006 iirc. It is almost
2010, how long are you going to blame Bush and the Republicans?
>I said Obama would
>defeat McCain. He did.
The republican party has a bad habit of picking the seniority candidate.
>I said health care was going to pass. It will.
Something will pass, it won't be the current monstrosity.
>Don't be so positive that the republicans are going to make big gains in
>the next election. Republicans will probably pick up some seats in
>Congress but will they get a majority in either house? No. So you're
>going to be so sad again in 2010 just like you were in 2008.
Time will tell. I'm hearing about dems changing or considering changing parties. Other
than R2D2 who on my side has switched to the dark side.
In the next decade, it really doesn't matter to some degree. Promises made are coming up
against the reality of economics. The government can't send IOU's to social security
anymore since those are about to be cashed.
The ponzi scheme is about to fall apart.
pyotr filipivich
Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:21:12 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:>news:h6ogj5p7fiqq7anv5...@4ax.com...
><snip>
>>
>> Bravo sir..bravo indeed. A clear and concise summation!
>>
>> Gunner
>
>How come the State-Controlled Media said not-one-word?
Because the only threat to Their Way of Life is from the other
party - the Republicans. If the Republicans had proposed this, they'd
have been all over it like well, Democrats covering a Republican. But
being party stalwarts, they couldn't investigate a missing chocolate
cake at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them
what to look for, where, and what significance it all has.
They're not the first Lemming out of the box, but they trust the
leadership.
> If this was so good
>for the country and our rights as citizens... And rest assured, we'll NEVER
>hear about any actions taken by a foreign force operating with impunity on
>American soil against Americans.
Only of those Americans are Progressives. Nobody else is quite
real to them.
pyotr filipivich
about Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:04:02 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>lazy and tend to use lever activated bottom pours. They both have
>things for and against them. Probably the best bullets are poured from
>properly heated, properly fluxed and clean lead via ladle. But the
>differences are small and only the purist really notices.
>
>Battery lead..is exceptionally high in calcium and other stabilizing
>metals..and when they are used up...tend to be filled with a horrendous
>number of oxides and trace metals that really makes them worthless for
>bullet making. Melting them down is hard enough..and by the time you
>skim off all the crap that comes to the top..your pot is almost empty.
>
>Crom knows Ive tried every possible way to melt down batteries. As have
>countless others...all futily.
The "obvious" solution is to resmelt the lead. Treat the battery
plates as high grade ore. OF course, that's easy for me to say. I
dunno how to go about setting up. And I reckon folks might get testy,
especially if you do this in suburbia. Not really the sort of thing
you could do in the garage, knowwhatImeanVerne?
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Hawke
> Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>> Don't you think you need a few tons of lead? Gummer thinks he'll use
>> his. Do you think he will? Or is it just the tendency to acquire stuff
>> you don't need and then hoard it? As someone that is getting up there in
>> age my self I know I don't have a lifetime ahead of me. I'm not ever
>> going to use a lot of stuff I thought I needed. Some people never learn
>> that and go on acquiring junk they will never use. Lead, need a few tons?
>>
>
> A ton of lead in grains
> 14000000
>
> Number of 230g bullets
> 60869.56522
>
> Days of shooting 100 rounds
> 608.6956522
>
> Years a ton lasts.
> 1.66651787
A ton lasts 1.6 years? Lasts who, competitive professional shooters?
Most people will never shoot 60,000 rounds in a lifetime let alone a
year and a half. Very few people shoot 3,000 rounds a month, let alone
36,000 per year. You will wear out several guns if you shoot 60,000
rounds. They cost money. So do the components to load 60,000 rounds.
Then you have to have the time to shoot that many rounds. At 56 years
old and with medical problems how many rounds of .45 ACP can someone be
expected to shoot per year, and for how many years? Add those factors up
and you find that it's unlikely that Gummer will ever shoot even a ton
of lead in what is left of his life. You also assumed that all his
shooting will be with .45 caliber ammunition. If you are like me and
shoot 9mm and .38 caliber ammo too then you use even less lead. So
although your numbers are correct if you predict that he'll ever use up
that much lead you are not.
Hawke
Hawke
> Hawke <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>> If you had the sense to listen to what I have said over the past couple
>> of years you would have to admit that everything I have predicted has
>> come to pass. I said Bush would be a terrible president.
>
> I'm not going to make a case that he was great. The alternatives, were and are still far
> worse.
I bet even you can make a strong case that Bush was a rotten president.
The idea someone else, anyone else, would have done as bad or worse
simply is not logical. Logically, anyone would have done better.
>> He was. I said
>> the republicans would ruin the country. They did.
>
> It was running fairly fine until the dems took over congress. 2006 iirc. It is almost
> 2010, how long are you going to blame Bush and the Republicans?
Things were running fine, the Democrats won slim majorities, and THEN
things went wrong? How long will I blame Bush for what he did? A long
time. If you burn down my house how long do you think I'll hold that
against you? Hint, a long time. Bush's policies continue on long after
he leaves office as do other things he put in place. I blame things on
the guy who did them. Now I'm blaming Obama for making a mistake in
Afghanistan by escalating and I blame the republican for holding up
health care reform. See, I blame whoever I think is wrong.
>> I said Obama would
>> defeat McCain. He did.
>
> The republican party has a bad habit of picking the seniority candidate.
That is a fact. Almost every election the republicans pick an old white
guy as their candidate. Every year that passes makes that a bad
strategy. Changing demographics mean that is a losing policy. Want to
bet the next republican candidate for president is an old white guy again?
>> I said health care was going to pass. It will.
>
> Something will pass, it won't be the current monstrosity.
It'll be close. But this is just the first step in the process of
changing from a private system to a universal system. It'll probably
take a few years but that is where we're headed.
>> Don't be so positive that the republicans are going to make big gains in
>> the next election. Republicans will probably pick up some seats in
>> Congress but will they get a majority in either house? No. So you're
>> going to be so sad again in 2010 just like you were in 2008.
>
> Time will tell. I'm hearing about dems changing or considering changing parties. Other
> than R2D2 who on my side has switched to the dark side.
You hear what republicans are hoping for, not what is. They will likely
win seats in 2010, that's typical. But if 2010 turns out to be a pretty
good year and the economy picks up and unemployment starts to decline it
will be bad news for republicans. They won't say it but they are praying
that the economy stays bad next year.
> In the next decade, it really doesn't matter to some degree. Promises made are coming up
> against the reality of economics. The government can't send IOU's to social security
> anymore since those are about to be cashed.
>
> The ponzi scheme is about to fall apart.
No it won't. Just imagine yourself in power. Would you let it fail and
leave millions of older people with no money to live on? You would make
some changes to keep it going. You might have to make some harsh cuts or
some tax increases but you would do it. Besides that, once we get past
the baby boom increase the amount needed will decline. And if the
economy actually gets going good there will be enough money just from
that. I think you just have fallen for the right wing predictions of
doom and gloom. If things go well they will never get back in power. So
what do you expect them to say, things are going to be great under the
Democrats. Hell no, even if they know it's true.
Hawke
John R. Carroll
> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>
>> Nothing exotic but yes, they are 50 percent more expensive. The
>> logic is that an additional $0.25 each isn't meaningful when
>> compared to the cost of a tire or removing lead from the water
>> supply. That's probably true.
>
>
> So, painting the weights wasn't cost effective?
>
Woops.
I guess it's the law after all
Update: Governor Schwarzenegger signed this bill into law on October 12,
2009. The sale and installation of lead wheel weights are now banned in
California.
LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST
SB 757, Pavley. Lead wheel weights.
Under existing law, the Department of Toxic Substances Control is
responsible for administering various programs to control the release
of toxic substances into the soil and groundwater. Existing law
requires, on or before January 1, 2011, the department to adopt
regulations to establish a process to identify and prioritize
chemicals or chemical ingredients in consumer products that may be
considered as being a chemical of concern, as prescribed, and to
establish a process for evaluating chemicals of concern in consumer
products, and their potential alternatives, to determine how best to
limit exposure or to reduce the level of hazard posed by a chemical
of concern. Existing law also establishes the Hazardous Waste Control
Account to be used as specified by the department, upon
appropriation by the Legislature.
This bill would prohibit the manufacture, sale, or installation in
California of a wheel weight that contains more than 0.1% lead. The
bill would provide for injunctive relief, as well as civil and
administrative penalties for violation of that provision, as
specified. The bill requires all civil and administrative fines
collected to be deposited in the Hazardous Waste Control Account for
expenditure by the department, upon appropriation by the Legislature,
to implement and enforce the act.
This bill would also specify that if the department identifies an
alternative to lead contained in wheel weights as a chemical of
concern, then the lead alternative would remain subject to the
evaluation process, as prescribed, to determine how best to limit
exposure or to reduce the level of hazard posed by the lead
alternative.
--
John R. Carroll
Don Foreman
<davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>If you have a .380 why would you want to use lead bullets? Guns that
>shoot .380 ammo are not good for anything but short range self defensive
>purposes. They are not guns that people shoot very much. If you aren't
>planning on putting thousands of rounds downrange from you gun then
>there is no reason to shoot lead bullets. This kind of weapon is really
>only good for one thing, self defense, and for that what you want is the
>best hollow point ammunition you can buy. Buy something cheap like
>Blazer ammo for practice and use a premium cartridge like Gold Dot or
>Cor-Bon for self defense. If you want a gun that shoots lead bullets and
>is good for lots of shooting get a 1911.
>
>Hawke
I concur on both counts. An engineer agreeing with a poli sci guy, go
figure! <G>
We do practice with our .380's routinely, but typically only about 20
rounds per range visit since we practice with other calibers too and
we're now in skill-maintenance rather than skill-building mode. At
ages approaching 70 we're probably not gonna get much better, but
we're competent and expect/intend to be for a while yet.
For .380 SD ammo, consider
http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/HG_acriticalchoice_200903/index.html
I sometimes use lead handloads in my 1911's for practice and target.
Our practice ammo for .380ACP is handloads using Magsafe 90-grain
bullets from MidwayUSA: not nearly as inexpensive as home-cast bullets
but the cost of 1000 bullets isn't nearly enough to motivate me to
fire up the Coleman stove in the garage to melt and pour lead.
Lib Loo
"Hawke" <davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hhc21e$4m0$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Silly Hack, always projecting himself. Just because it's more than you can
shoot in a lifetime doesn't mean that everyone else is as pathetic as you
are. Besides, if Gunner takes a couple friends with him when he goes to
shoot, he would go through his ammo in about a third of the time, about half
a year. But then you don't share with, or have any friends, do you?
Wes
>> So, painting the weights wasn't cost effective?
>
>
>How would painting the weights prevent them from being ground up and
>dissolved into the water table?
>That, apparently, is what happens and is why the EU, Korea, Japan and others
>have banned them.
Ground up? Recycled yes.
Smelters and flaking lead paint seems like a major source.
http://www.urisa.org/Journal/protect/Vol14No1/griffith%20pages.pdf
I wonder how long it will take for RoHS type laws to outlaw bullets?