AR-15 & M16 Bolt Carrier groups

[RogerN]

It seems the bolt carrier group is the hard to get part for AR-15's
currently. I have found old Colt M16 A1 parts kits, "good to excellent"
minus lower receiver and barrel (plus missing auto-sear or disconnector).
Would the M16 bolt carrier group be good in an AR-15?

I found some bolt carrier groups in stock for $300 but the M16 parts kits
are available in the $500 - $600 range, seems to be a better value maybe. I
read a review of one of these parts kits being assembled, they said it was a
good shooter.

RogerN

[Ed Huntress]

Jesus. For a poodle shooter? I paid less than that for a classic Black
Beauty Double in 12 gauge, and the forcing cone was even relieved for
star crimps.

What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?

--
Ed Huntress

[Stanley Schaefer]

The M16 parts WILL fit in an AR, it was common practice back in the
first days of building AR clones to use surplus M16 parts from
scrapped rifles. However, BATF eventually frowned on that because,
with some added bits you can go full-auto, or even without, a
improperly timed build can double. So, if you use the whole kit, you
need to remove the secondary sear hook from the hammer, grind back the
auto sear trip surface on the carrier, and lose the full-auto selector
entirely. Disconnector tang needs to be ground to semi-auto
configuration, too. At one time, there was an AR FAQ on the ATF site,
might be it's still there. As far as parts quality, the kits I've
seen for sale were from Colt-made commercially sold M16s supplied as
military aid to several countries, warehoused and never issued. They
can't come back as complete guns, so current practice is to strip
them, scrap the lowers and barrels and import the rest. Some kits for
sale had the auto sear and spring when they were first imported, those
were taken out with later kits. You do NOT want them unless you like
10 year vacations. Quality on those parts kits is the same as new
Colt-made parts of the same era. Barrels can no longer be imported.

So the problems with M16 parts in AR builds aren't mechanical, they're
legal. At this point, somebody starts saying that none of this is in
any law( and they're going to do it anyway). And they're right, it's
BATF's own interpretation, subject to change without notice and with
every change in administration. Since Congress has left legal
interpretation of the law to BATF, this is the result. They can do
just about anything to your gun, should they seize it, to get it to
fire more than 1 shot with one trigger pull(and have done so). Then
it's a machine gun and you go to jail. Just having M16 parts along
with an AR has been taken as having "constructive intent", it's just
flat too easy to convert. If you've got the M16 auto sear and spring,
it's just one hole's difference. So they need to be altered just as
soon as you get them. You do not want to end up in court because M16
parts kits are currently cheaper than AR parts. Just using an M16
bolt carrier with all the rest being AR parts SHOULD be safe legally,
the trip surface should probably be shortened to be completely safe.
Your choice...

Stan

[j...@teleport.com]

On Saturday, March 2, 2013 9:20:38 PM UTC-8, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
> On Mar 2, 9:40 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote: > It seems the bolt carrier group is the hard to get part for AR-15's > currently.  I have found old Colt M16 A1 parts kits, "good to excellent" > minus lower receiver and barrel (plus missing auto-sear or disconnector). > Would the M16 bolt carrier group be good in an AR-15? > > I found some bolt carrier groups in stock for $300 but the M16 parts kits > are available in the $500 - $600 range, seems to be a better value maybe.  I > read a review of one of these parts kits being assembled, they said it was a > good shooter. > > RogerN The M16 parts WILL fit in an AR, it was common practice back in the first days of building AR clones to use surplus M16 parts from scrapped rifles. However, BATF eventually frowned on that because, with some added bits you can go full-auto, or even without, a improperly timed build can double. So, if you use the whole kit, you need to remove the secondary sear hook from the hammer, grind back the auto sear trip surface on the carrier, and lose the full-auto selector entirely. Disconnector tang needs to be ground to semi-auto configuration, too. At one time, there was an AR FAQ on the ATF site, might be it's still there. As far as parts quality, the kits I've seen for sale were from Colt-made commercially sold M16s supplied as military aid to several countries, warehoused and never issued. They can't come back as complete guns, so current practice is to strip them, scrap the lowers and barrels and import the rest. Some kits for sale had the auto sear and spring when they were first imported, those were taken out with later kits. You do NOT want them unless you like 10 year vacations. Quality on those parts kits is the same as new Colt-made parts of the same era. Barrels can no longer be imported. So the problems with M16 parts in AR builds aren't mechanical, they're legal. At this point, somebody starts saying that none of this is in any law( and they're going to do it anyway). And they're right, it's BATF's own interpretation, subject to change without notice and with every change in administration. Since Congress has left legal interpretation of the law to BATF, this is the result. They can do just about anything to your gun, should they seize it, to get it to fire more than 1 shot with one trigger pull(and have done so). Then it's a machine gun and you go to jail. Just having M16 parts along with an AR has been taken as having "constructive intent", it's just flat too easy to convert. If you've got the M16 auto sear and spring, it's just one hole's difference. So they need to be altered just as soon as you get them. You do not want to end up in court because M16 parts kits are currently cheaper than AR parts. Just using an M16 bolt carrier with all the rest being AR parts SHOULD be safe legally, the trip surface should probably be shortened to be completely safe. Your choice... Stan

it's not illegal to have the m16 bc installed. many transitional colts, from
(a1 to a2) were built with them.

read the gc.

the a.s. is a problem.

[j...@teleport.com]

here's a worth while read.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_6/739614_The_legality_of_an_M16_part_in_your_AR__the_short_version_.html

[RogerN]

"Stanley Schaefer" wrote in message
news:7ad4cafa-8c38-47f8...@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...

>On Mar 2, 9:40 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:

><snip>

>So the problems with M16 parts in AR builds aren't mechanical, they're
>legal. At this point, somebody starts saying that none of this is in
>any law( and they're going to do it anyway). And they're right, it's
>BATF's own interpretation, subject to change without notice and with
>every change in administration. Since Congress has left legal
>interpretation of the law to BATF, this is the result. They can do
>just about anything to your gun, should they seize it, to get it to
>fire more than 1 shot with one trigger pull(and have done so). Then
>it's a machine gun and you go to jail. Just having M16 parts along
>with an AR has been taken as having "constructive intent", it's just
>flat too easy to convert. If you've got the M16 auto sear and spring,
>it's just one hole's difference. So they need to be altered just as
>soon as you get them. You do not want to end up in court because M16
>parts kits are currently cheaper than AR parts. Just using an M16
>bolt carrier with all the rest being AR parts SHOULD be safe legally,
>the trip surface should probably be shortened to be completely safe.
>Your choice...
>
>Stan

I have an "95%" receiver according to americanspiritarms.com, and an AR-15
lower parts kit. That's what the M16 upper parts, along with a new barrel,
would be assembled with, no "Auto" M16 parts except the bolt carrier group.
Though I think a full-auto would be fun to play with for a little bit, I
don't want to waste that much ammo or spend time in prison. Maybe I'll go
to the Knob Creek Kentucky machine gun shoot someday, they'll let you fire
machine guns for a fee.

Thanks for the info!

RogerN

[RogerN]

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:ndm5j89dep987qp2i...@4ax.com...

I'd probably just use it for target shooting and occasional varmints. The
cartridges are kind of cute, like miniatures of my hunting rifle Winchester
Magnum cartridges. We gave a lot of Coyotes around here, I can hear them
when a train is in the area. If it was legal to deer hunt with rifles here
I'd get a 308 version.

I think I'll complete at least the "95%" receiver, I just have to drill 3
holes and mill out a pocket for the trigger group. If I ever get a shop
building here and get my machines moved there's a better chance of me
getting the 0% lowers done. The rifles are looking pretty cheap compared to
some of the optics, I'd like to have one with good daytime optics, one with
night vision, and one with FLIR if they become more affordable than the one
I saw for $7500.

RogerN

[Gunner]

Im sure he is going to simply "collect it". Collectors are harmless
people. Not like "shooters" who are very dangerous people, according
to your friends in the DNC

Gunner, doing stock work on his 338 build



The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[John B.]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 00:06:00 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

If that is a Baker Black Beauty I just saw one in "almost like new"
condition offered for sale. One scratch on left side of action, one on
right side of barrel and a small chip out of the butt stock. $900.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Ed Huntress]

Wow. I hope you feel you're getting your money's worth.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 00:06:00 -0500, Ed Huntress
><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 22:40:31 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>>
>>>It seems the bolt carrier group is the hard to get part for AR-15's
>>>currently. I have found old Colt M16 A1 parts kits, "good to excellent"
>>>minus lower receiver and barrel (plus missing auto-sear or disconnector).
>>>Would the M16 bolt carrier group be good in an AR-15?
>>>
>>>I found some bolt carrier groups in stock for $300 but the M16 parts kits
>>>are available in the $500 - $600 range, seems to be a better value maybe. I
>>>read a review of one of these parts kits being assembled, they said it was a
>>>good shooter.
>>>
>>>RogerN
>>
>>Jesus. For a poodle shooter? I paid less than that for a classic Black
>>Beauty Double in 12 gauge, and the forcing cone was even relieved for
>>star crimps.
>>
>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>
>
>Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".

He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible
poodle-shooters."

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:25:35 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Possibly it's mine. <g> I sold it around ten years ago. I had enough
shotguns and wasn't hunting rabbits or pheasants anymore.

I think I got $650 for mine.

If it hasn't had the forcing cones relieved, don't shoot star crimp
shells in it. I've owned two shotguns that required roll crimps, and
they're a PITA to load.

--
Ed Huntress

[RogerN]

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

news:dsm6j8l4kklb6hc0m...@4ax.com...

>On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>

<snip>

>>>
>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>
>>
>>Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".
>
>He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible
>poodle-shooters."

Why do you call it a poodle shooter? The US military didn't use them to
shoot poodles. The army manual says they can be effective out to 600 yards.
I already have many rifles that aren't on the "assault weapons ban" list,
I'm wanting the guns that gun grabbers don't want me to have.

And if the gun grabbers start confiscating guns, I hope to join the 2nd
civil war and die fighting for my country giving the anti-Americans my ammo
first. I really think the more cost effective approach is to attack
anti-Americans with some sort of WMD's, something like chemical or
biological weapons, if they continue their anti-American policies. I have
no knowledge in chemical or biological weapons and I'd probably win a Darwin
Award if I played with it, but I think that would be a cheaper way to
eliminate the areas that voted for 100% Obama.

Obama wants the Government to be the Government that our founding fathers
gave us the 2nd Amendment to protect ourselves against. I believe that's
why he wants an "Assault Weapons" ban, since only around 2% of gun violence
involves a rifle of any kind, why else is he so concerned about rifles. He
and the libtards focus 98% of their effort on 2% of the problem, he's using
the Sandy Hook tragedy to do what he wanted with the "Fast and Furious"
scandal.

RogerN

[j...@teleport.com]

What is it that you think they're focused on fixing?

You give them way too much credit.

It's all about politics, and there is no focus to fix anything.

If they wanted to fix something they'd focus on the "mental health"

system. But that's way to difficult a problem and costs way to much

money.

[Stormin Mormon]

You know, that could be second civil
war. Or second revolution. One, or the
other?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message
news:YOCdnVe5ie2s-a7M...@earthlink.com...

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 08:54:29 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>news:dsm6j8l4kklb6hc0m...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
><snip>
>>>>
>>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>>
>>>
>>>Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".
>>
>>He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible
>>poodle-shooters."
>
>Why do you call it a poodle shooter?

Too big for squirrels, too small for deer. Just right for poodles.

> The US military didn't use them to
>shoot poodles.

So, you can call it a "people shooter" if you want. That's what it was
designed for, but in civilian use, it's just right for poodles.

Actually, I bought my .223 Browning Model 1885 for shooting
groundhogs, but all I ever killed with it was a javelina. It killed
quickly but I had shot the peeg through the heart with a zippy little
52-gr. bullet..

I remember when it was the .222 Magnum, before they made slight
changes to the cartridge geometry and re-named it the .223. We
considered it a medium-power groundhog gun when I lived in
Pennsylvania.

> The army manual says they can be effective out to 600 yards.

At putting down humans. The idea is to draw in a couple of medics, if
possible. You just want to produce a casualty. In civilian use, that's
not the general idea.

>I already have many rifles that aren't on the "assault weapons ban" list,
>I'm wanting the guns that gun grabbers don't want me to have.

There's a great reason to spend all that money on a gun. The gun
grabbers will be all upset with you. Do you think you're getting your
money's worth?

>
>And if the gun grabbers start confiscating guns, I hope to join the 2nd
>civil war and die fighting for my country giving the anti-Americans my ammo
>first.

You're going to shoot the cullers? Maybe we'll be on the same side.
I'll have my .300 Savage and my .45 ACP Colt.

I figure the cullers will have ten or twenty guns each, and will try
to shoot them all at once.

> I really think the more cost effective approach is to attack
>anti-Americans with some sort of WMD's, something like chemical or
>biological weapons, if they continue their anti-American policies.

The cullers live in trailers, which are mostly found in small
clusters. You can take them out with a pack howitzer. Cannister shot
will go right through both walls.

> I have
>no knowledge in chemical or biological weapons and I'd probably win a Darwin
>Award if I played with it, but I think that would be a cheaper way to
>eliminate the areas that voted for 100% Obama.

How about those who voted for 98% Obama? Are you going to shoot them,
too?

>
>Obama wants the Government to be the Government that our founding fathers
>gave us the 2nd Amendment to protect ourselves against.

You live in an interesting world, Roger. Are you in coal country, or
is that not close to you? I've spent some time in that coal country.

> I believe that's
>why he wants an "Assault Weapons" ban, since only around 2% of gun violence
>involves a rifle of any kind, why else is he so concerned about rifles.

Because they're the weapon of choice for gun owners to kill masses of
1st grade children and theater goers. It's a cultural thing, like
outlawing the wearing of pants on Main Street, that have no crotch.

>He
>and the libtards focus 98% of their effort on 2% of the problem, he's using
>the Sandy Hook tragedy to do what he wanted with the "Fast and Furious"
>scandal.

Again, that's an interesting mental world you're in.

--
Ed Huntress

[j...@teleport.com]

>
>
>
> Because they're the weapon of choice for gun owners to kill masses of
>
> 1st grade children and theater goers. It's a cultural thing, like
>
> outlawing the wearing of pants on Main Street, that have no crotch.
>
>

Ed,

Just curious, do you really believe banning a particular style of weapon is
going to fix the urban/social problem?

Forget politics for a bit, but just focus on the social issue. What would you
do to solve the problem?

You seem to be familiar with guns, what weapon would be a better choice for close in work?

Do you really believe it's about the weapon or people? I guess that's what
I'd like to know about you?

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 07:58:13 -0800 (PST), j...@teleport.com wrote:

>
>>
>>
>>
>> Because they're the weapon of choice for gun owners to kill masses of
>>
>> 1st grade children and theater goers. It's a cultural thing, like
>>
>> outlawing the wearing of pants on Main Street, that have no crotch.
>>
>>
>
>
>Ed,
>
>Just curious, do you really believe banning a particular style of weapon is
>going to fix the urban/social problem?

No. But outlawing the practice of walking through town with your dick
hanging out isn't going to stop rapes, either. I have no problem with
people who want to outlaw either one. As Robert Bork said, all laws
are legislation of morality, and many of those moral choices we have
to live with are the opinions of other people. That's democracy for
you.

Look, Roger let on that his real reason for building an AR is to be
ready to slaughter liberals in the Second Civil War. Like Gunner and
Larry, he's a Walter Mitty Minuteman, with camo and night-vision
goggles. He yearns for the opportunity to kill people he doesn't like
and he knows that an AR is both practically and symbolically the right
tool for the job.

Roger wants to flaunt the child-killing guns, the guns used for mass
slaughter of civilians. Based on the polls, most people consider those
guns to be obscene, for just that reason. I'd like to see how many
people think that walking down the street waving your wang is obscene.
I'll guess that the numbers are similar.

>
>Forget politics for a bit, but just focus on the social issue. What would you
>do to solve the problem?

The urban social problem? Sorry, that one is 'way above my pay grade.

>
>You seem to be familiar with guns, what weapon would be a better choice for close in work?

On first graders, or on liberals?

>
>Do you really believe it's about the weapon or people? I guess that's what
>I'd like to know about you?

It's the weapons that those people choose, and it's the people
themselves. The two go together like a hand in a glove.

The obnoxious thing about ARs, particularly of those that people have
bought in the last few months, is that the big attraction is that
they're the best, proven massacre guns on the civilian market. They
have fame by association and people are paying outrageous sums for
fame, to get a little of that "Man Card" rub-off that Bushmaster
promoted before Sandy Hook. (they've taken their ads for that down. No
more "renewing your Man Card" with a Bushmaster, bub. But Bushmaster
knew their market, all right.) They're really shitty guns for any
reasonable civilian use: ammo-sensitive, requiring stunt work to shoot
anywhere near the groups of a good bolt-action; terrible lock times
from early in the last century, like a 1917 Enfield; in .223, one of
the more useless cartridges for civilian use this side of a .25-20.

But they're great for killing kids huddled up in a classroom.

Instead of wanting to distance themselves from the guns used in Aurora
and Sandy Hook, these clowns seem to be buying them because of their
fame as slaughter-guns. They're evidence of a disease that has
permeated gun culture in the US, and my fear is that it could be
fatal.

Now, stand back while I paper-patch my smoke pole, by cracky. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:35t6j81f4e5lrcaj2...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 07:58:13 -0800 (PST), j...@teleport.com wrote:
>
> The obnoxious thing about ARs, particularly of those that people
> have
> bought in the last few months, is that the big attraction is that
> they're the best, proven massacre guns on the civilian market.

> Ed Huntress

Last week I stopped by the station and took a peek at the local SWAT
team's gear. They've changed from HKs to those 'really shitty'
massacre guns, short barrel and full auto.

[Ed Huntress]

The quote was:

'They're really shitty guns for any reasonable civilian use:

ammo-sensitive, requiring stunt work to shoot anywhere near the groups
of a good bolt-action; terrible lock times from early in the last
century, like a 1917 Enfield; in .223, one of the more useless
cartridges for civilian use this side of a .25-20."

Now, if you consider the work of a SWAT team to be a "reasonable
civilian use," you're part of the problem.

Why did you snip that out?

--
Ed Huntress
>

[j...@teleport.com]

> >Just curious, do you really believe banning a particular style of weapon is
>
> >going to fix the urban/social problem?
>
>
>
> No.

Well I was just trying to figure out if you were a real "whacky" or if there
was some thought running around up there.

Yeah, I syppathize with your frustration.

I'll tell ya, it's interesting as hell to walk into a gun store and see
weapons I bought over two decades ago going for 400% of what I paid for them.

All this hype was needlessly generated by politicians.

There's crap on both sides of this debate.

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 09:47:25 -0800 (PST), j...@teleport.com wrote:

>> >Just curious, do you really believe banning a particular style of weapon is
>>
>> >going to fix the urban/social problem?
>>
>>
>>
>> No.
>
>
>Well I was just trying to figure out if you were a real "whacky" or if there
>was some thought running around up there.
>
>Yeah, I syppathize with your frustration.
>
>I'll tell ya, it's interesting as hell to walk into a gun store and see
>weapons I bought over two decades ago going for 400% of what I paid for them.

Well, the Browning Superposed my aunt bought for my uncle in 1952 (at
Abercrombie & Fitch in NYC -- another story) cost her $64. I had the
receipt. <g>

>
>All this hype was needlessly generated by politicians.
>
>There's crap on both sides of this debate.

Sure. But the crap on the two sides of the AR debate is this: From the
left, "why does anyone need an assault rifle to shoot deer?", which
causes a gag reflex when I hear it, and from the right, "what if
you're attacked by a hoard of gang-bangers?", which causes another gag
reflex.

--
Ed Huntress

[j...@teleport.com]

>
> It's the weapons that those people choose, and it's the people
>
> themselves. The two go together like a hand in a glove.
>

You have experience with a shotgun.

Do this thought experiment, let's say every single AR and Ak type weapon is gone.

How long will it take for the "noobs" to realize that they're chose of weapons
was wrong all along?

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:k227j812i8iont4r5...@4ax.com...

For Army and Marine veterans the operation of the AR-15 is instinctive
when they jump out of bed from a loud noise in the night. It goes from
safely unloaded to fully ready to shoot in under two seconds. Perhaps
Navy and AF vets and civilians would be better off with a shotgun,
though you can't slap a mag in an unloaded one by feel. I carried a
.45ACP on duty too but didn't train enough with it.
http://everything2.com/title/Performing+combat+S.P.O.R.T.S.
jsw

[Ed Huntress]

Maybe never. No sex in shotguns. No man cards.

Need big magazine, like big testicles. Military-style gun. Mucho
macho. Look like movie poster. Man-Card gun.

--
Ed Huntress

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 09:18:56 -0500, Ed Huntress

<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 00:06:00 -0500, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 22:40:31 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It seems the bolt carrier group is the hard to get part for AR-15's
>>>>currently. I have found old Colt M16 A1 parts kits, "good to excellent"
>>>>minus lower receiver and barrel (plus missing auto-sear or disconnector).
>>>>Would the M16 bolt carrier group be good in an AR-15?
>>>>
>>>>I found some bolt carrier groups in stock for $300 but the M16 parts kits
>>>>are available in the $500 - $600 range, seems to be a better value maybe. I
>>>>read a review of one of these parts kits being assembled, they said it was a
>>>>good shooter.
>>>>
>>>>RogerN
>>>
>>>Jesus. For a poodle shooter? I paid less than that for a classic Black
>>>Beauty Double in 12 gauge, and the forcing cone was even relieved for
>>>star crimps.
>>>
>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>
>>
>>Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".
>
>He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible
>poodle-shooters."

Some people collect Beanie Babies, others collect Hummel porcelein,
others collect rubber bands. A "poodle shooter" has been fine for the
US military (and many other nations) for 50 yrs so far. So whats
your problem?

Your president has made many large Gifts of them to other nations and
many cartels. You mean he is a cheap bastard for handing them out
like candy?

Gunner

[Gunner]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 08:54:29 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:

>And if the gun grabbers start confiscating guns, I hope to join the 2nd
>civil war and die fighting for my country giving the anti-Americans my ammo
>first.

Roger..plan to make the other poor bastard die for HIS bleeves. It
makes retirement and getting a bit of pussy now and then..so much
better when you are there to enjoy it.

Gunner

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:35:15 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 08:54:29 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>
>>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>>news:dsm6j8l4kklb6hc0m...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".
>>>
>>>He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible
>>>poodle-shooters."
>>
>>Why do you call it a poodle shooter?
>
>Too big for squirrels, too small for deer. Just right for poodles.
>
>> The US military didn't use them to
>>shoot poodles.
>
>So, you can call it a "people shooter" if you want. That's what it was
>designed for, but in civilian use, it's just right for poodles.

Works pretty good on People in civilian life as well.

Eddie is a BlueStater from the East Coast. You will have to judge
his postings based on that fact. Sadly

Gunner

[Gunner]

Isnt it interesting to watch the Eastern Blue State mind set displayed
publicly like that, boys and girls?

This is the sort of thing that those of us that live west of Boston so
often never see.

Read it again and again..and remember where DC is.

Gunner

[Gunner]

And again...we have an Eastern Blue Stater laying out his World View.
Sad isnt it?

>
>Why did you snip that out?

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 13:15:14 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Hmm. Marines. Camo. Slappin' mags. Shoot in two seconds. 'Sounds like
candy for a mass-murdering nutcase.

Which, of course, is why they use them. That's their identity. That's
their attraction. And that's why, in a civilian environment, even in
NORTH FREAKING CAROLINA (poll reported from HPU Survey Research
Center, 2/28/13), more than half of Americans want to ban those
obscene suckers.

--
Ed Huntress

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 12:52:15 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 09:47:25 -0800 (PST), j...@teleport.com wrote:
>
>>> >Just curious, do you really believe banning a particular style of weapon is
>>>
>>> >going to fix the urban/social problem?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>>
>>Well I was just trying to figure out if you were a real "whacky" or if there
>>was some thought running around up there.
>>
>>Yeah, I syppathize with your frustration.
>>
>>I'll tell ya, it's interesting as hell to walk into a gun store and see
>>weapons I bought over two decades ago going for 400% of what I paid for them.
>
>Well, the Browning Superposed my aunt bought for my uncle in 1952 (at
>Abercrombie & Fitch in NYC -- another story) cost her $64. I had the
>receipt. <g>

And the average weekly wage was under $20 in 1952

>
>>
>>All this hype was needlessly generated by politicians.
>>
>>There's crap on both sides of this debate.
>
>Sure. But the crap on the two sides of the AR debate is this: From the
>left, "why does anyone need an assault rifle to shoot deer?", which
>causes a gag reflex when I hear it, and from the right, "what if
>you're attacked by a hoard of gang-bangers?", which causes another gag
>reflex.

Tell that to the Koreans in LA

Gunner

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:33:43 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>

Made by Roger? That's collectible??

>
>Your president has made many large Gifts of them to other nations and
>many cartels. You mean he is a cheap bastard for handing them out
>like candy?

They're for killing people. That's who gets them -- people who are
going to kill, or threaten to kill, other people. That's what they're
for, that's what they're all about, and that's why they're out there.

How about ol' Rog? Besides, he's clearly said that he hopes to use it
for shooting people in the "Second Civil War." That isn't collecting,
unless he's planning to mount their heads for display on his wall.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:42:36 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Right! And check out the latest Fox News poll to see what *real*
Americans think about banning ARs and other semi-automatic weapons. In
the poll, 54% to 42% want to...uh...ummm................ban them.

<sob!>

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/01/18/fox-news-poll-gun-rights-and-gun-control/

--
Ed Huntress

[Gunner]

Isnt that Pesky 2nd Amendment a total pain in the ass for you Blue
staters and the Media who propagandize so well?

<VBG>

Gunner

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 12:29:09 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Not at all. The Second Amerndment doesn't protect them. See D.C. v.
Heller. Where does it say ARs are protected?

--
Ed Huntress

[dca...@krl.org]

On Mar 3, 2:29 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:

>
> Maybe never. No sex in shotguns. No man cards.
>
>

> --
> Ed Huntress

Maybe but the Marines where I used to work carried shotguns. Look on
the internet for street sweeper shotgun.


Dan

[Tom Gardner]

On 3/3/2013 3:43 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> Not at all. The Second Amerndment doesn't protect them. See D.C. v.
> Heller. Where does it say ARs are protected?
>

nose---tent---

[Tom Gardner]

On 3/3/2013 2:43 PM, Gunner wrote:
>
> And again...we have an Eastern Blue Stater laying out his World View.
> Sad isnt it?
>

They all have the same opinions...the ones that they are told to have.

[Ed Huntress]

NFA "Destructive device." Class 3. Unlikely to be a problem.

--
Ed Huntress


>
>
>Dan

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:lt87j81j3510r7ude...@4ax.com...

>
> Maybe never. No sex in shotguns. No man cards.
>
> Need big magazine, like big testicles. Military-style gun. Mucho
> macho. Look like movie poster. Man-Card gun.

> Ed Huntress

Note the leftwinger obsession with Feel instead of Think.

You were once so rational. Now you are even forgetting how to spell,
which is a sad decline for an editor.

"playwrite" instead of playwright
"hoard of gang-bangers" instead of horde

[Tom Gardner]

On 3/3/2013 3:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> They're for killing people. That's who gets them -- people who are
> going to kill, or threaten to kill, other people. That's what they're
> for, that's what they're all about, and that's why they're out there.
>

Except for the millions and millions that are used for organized sports
and other very responsible uses.

And, they are far less lethal than originally designed, the Army's
changes fucked that all up.

[Tom Gardner]

On 3/3/2013 12:20 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:

<snip>
> They can't come back as complete guns, so current practice is to strip
> them, scrap the lowers and barrels and import the rest. Some kits for
> sale had the auto sear and spring when they were first imported, those
> were taken out with later kits. You do NOT want them unless you like
> 10 year vacations. Quality on those parts kits is the same as new
> Colt-made parts of the same era. Barrels can no longer be imported.
>
> Stan
>

Why were the barrels scrapped? Why can't barrels be imported?

[Snag]

Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 12:29:09 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Isnt that Pesky 2nd Amendment a total pain in the ass for you Blue
>> staters and the Media who propagandize so well?
>
> Not at all. The Second Amerndment doesn't protect them. See D.C. v.
> Heller. Where does it say ARs are protected?

Actually Gunner , he's just expressing his opinion of one particular model
of semi-auto rifle . While I see the utility value of a semi-auto for
certain situations ... I do not now own nor do I plan on purchasing an
AR15/M16 clone . It's long been my opinion that they're not worth the asking
price TO ME . 5.56 MM is designed to WOUND , which ties up a lot more
resources and personnel than outright killing . While that is acceptable and
in fact desirable in a military action , I for one do not want a bunch of
wounded guys hollerin' out in the front yard . Not only will that attract
more pests , it may very well disturb my sleep . I like .30 cal minimum for
defense ...
Now before y'all jump on me for "wanting to mow 'em down as they attack"
let me just say that that is ONE scenario , which if I get my stuff right
will never happen . I'd much rather slip away unseen and unheard than have
an armed confrontation . Actually , where I'm moving to pretty much
everybody is of a like mind , rendering the point moot . Country boy can
survive ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

[Jim Wilkins]

"Tom Gardner" <to...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kh0e3q$uql$2...@speranza.aioe.org...

PC groupthink empowers them to feel superior and forget what losers
they are. It's like medieval religion without a deity.

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:13:48 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:lt87j81j3510r7ude...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Maybe never. No sex in shotguns. No man cards.
>>
>> Need big magazine, like big testicles. Military-style gun. Mucho
>> macho. Look like movie poster. Man-Card gun.
>> Ed Huntress
>
>Note the leftwinger obsession with Feel instead of Think.

It's "feel" that's going to determine the political outcome. If you
don't get that by now, you're dead on arrival.

>
>You were once so rational. Now you are even forgetting how to spell,
>which is a sad decline for an editor.

Idiot.

>
>"playwrite" instead of playwright
>"hoard of gang-bangers" instead of horde

Oooh...a grammarist. <g> I don't edit my posts, Jim. Neither do I get
on people for spelling or grammatical errors here, unless they're
really, really funny. d8-)

"A person who writes plays is a playwright, not a playwrite, but the
act of writing plays is usually spelled playwriting."

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Tom Gardner" <to...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:kh0ei5$ve$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

That doesn't matter.

They generate a conditioned fear response planted by the media, most
evident in urbanites with no actual counterbalancing experience with
them. So do chainsaws.

It's ironic that the most supposedly civilized environment induces the
most primitive fear and helplessness.

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:15:53 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 3/3/2013 3:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>
>> They're for killing people. That's who gets them -- people who are
>> going to kill, or threaten to kill, other people. That's what they're
>> for, that's what they're all about, and that's why they're out there.
>>
>
>Except for the millions and millions that are used for organized sports
>and other very responsible uses.

Sure. But as for the "millions and millions," figures projected from
the NRA-researched number from a few years ago up to Dec. 2012 says
there are around 3,750,000 of them in the US. That's around 1.2% of
guns.

Here's the best work at estimating that I've seen:

http://tinyurl.com/bwgyhg6

But again, the entire design and concept is guns for killing people. I
know that the same is true of my .45 ACP 1911 Colt, but because of its
age and limited magazine capacity, the original purpose of the gun
doesn't hit people in the face like the hit they get when they see an
AR-15, and think about where it comes from.

You should realize, and I'm sure you do, that the entire political
issue is a matter of perceptions. And the results of the Fox News
poll, and virtually every other recent poll, tell you where that
perception lies.

The indisputable fact is that, since the early '90s, when I was a DCM
range officer and was defending them in Trenton, even providing
testimony in favor ot them, the marketing ("Renew Your Man Card," says
the bare-chested dude holding a Bushmaster in a menacing pose) and the
role these guns fulfill in the commando-wannabe world have made them
the gun of choice by the mass-murdering loons. Not for ordinary crime,
but for the horror shows that have made people stop and ask what kind
of a gun culture they want for this country.

>
>And, they are far less lethal than originally designed, the Army's
>changes fucked that all up.

Gee, what a shame. That's going to make it harder for loony gun owners
to shoot up classrooms. They may have to used big magazines and shoot
toddlers multiple times to be sure they're dead.

Oh, that's just what Adam Lanza did, isn't it.....

--
Ed Huntress

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:seg7j89e4hd2ud7vp...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:13:48 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>You were once so rational. Now you are even forgetting how to spell,
>>which is a sad decline for an editor.
>>

>>"playwrite" instead of playwright
>>"hoard of gang-bangers" instead of horde
>
> Oooh...a grammarist. <g> I don't edit my posts, Jim. Neither do I
> get
> on people for spelling or grammatical errors here, unless they're
> really, really funny. d8-)
>
> "A person who writes plays is a playwright, not a playwrite, but the
> act of writing plays is usually spelled playwriting."

> Ed Huntress

-"That's what I meant, fer chrissake...."
-"oh, cripes. This must be the stroke talking.."
-Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:07:12 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:seg7j89e4hd2ud7vp...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:13:48 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>You were once so rational. Now you are even forgetting how to spell,
>>>which is a sad decline for an editor.
>>>
>>>"playwrite" instead of playwright
>>>"hoard of gang-bangers" instead of horde
>>
>> Oooh...a grammarist. <g> I don't edit my posts, Jim. Neither do I
>> get
>> on people for spelling or grammatical errors here, unless they're
>> really, really funny. d8-)
>>
>> "A person who writes plays is a playwright, not a playwrite, but the
>> act of writing plays is usually spelled playwriting."
>> Ed Huntress
>
>-"That's what I meant, fer chrissake...."
>-"oh, cripes. This must be the stroke talking.."
>-Ed Huntress

That's Gunner's stroke. As he's done several times lately, he's
"corrected" what I've said...by saying exactly the same thing himself.
It's something I don't remember him doing in the past, and it's
worrisome.

Now, are you going to do a Gunner and ask for a "cite"? There's one
right there, if you follow the thread back a couple of posts.

But the bigger question is, what is your point? Are you trying to
argue by pointing out spelling errors? Is that how far you've sunk,
with nothing else to grab onto?

I think so. Your arguments, like those of the gun nutz in general, are
DOA. You're floundering and sputtering over the recent polls. They
have you worried.

They should.

--
Ed Huntress

[Snag]

I would ask about the demographics of those polled . Equal weight and
numbers for midwest farmers , Wyoming cowboys , NYC urbanites , Arkansas
hillbillies , etc . As Sam Clemens said , there're 3 kinds - liars , damn
liars , and statisticians .

[Ed Huntress]

When you get 5 or 6 polls from different sources, ranging from ABC to
Fox News, and they all say roughly the same thing, it's time to stop
trying to second-guess their sampling methods.

Those polls are all run by experts who know exactly how to do a random
sample, Snag. You won't get anywhere by trying to pick holes in them,
except to dig a hole of denial for yourself.

--
Ed Huntress

[j...@teleport.com]

one of the cool things about the AR platform is that by simply swapping
the upper receiver you can go to .300.

although not of much value for hunting, if you build the round correctly it's suppressible.

[whoyakidding's ghost]

(parody of rightwinger, Homer Simpson voice)

Mmmm, hole of denial.

[Ed Huntress]

LOL! Yeah, that does sound a little Homer-Simpsonish. <g>

--
Ed Huntress

[j...@teleport.com]

but you have to admitt Ed, detect and fix the Adam L's of the world and
these arguments all become moot.

it should be about the broken people not the inadament objects.

i didn't say it's an easy task, but the fact that the focus of the debate is mostly on the objects and rather then the people is disingenuous at best.

[Snag]

Ed Huntress wrote:
> Those polls are all run by experts who know exactly how to do a random
> sample, Snag. You won't get anywhere by trying to pick holes in them,
> except to dig a hole of denial for yourself.

As I said upthread , I neither own nor desire to own an AR-platform weapon
. I also agree with <you?> whoever it was that said <basically> that this
particular firearm has been demonized by the MSM .
EEEEEEEeeeeeviiiiillllllllll assault weapon ! Good only for killin'
innercent chirrens and mall shoppers .
I'll just have to make do with Dad's 7.7 Arisaka and my 20 ga bolt shotgun
. Oh , and that bow and arrow set I made from an Osage Orange tree and plum
saplings .

[Tom Gardner]

I won't own an AR either but I know a lot of people that use them in
competitions and I defend the spirit of the SA. It's not unreasonable
to want or own an AR or an AK just because they look mean to leftists
and are used in .012% of murders. To prevent gun crime, keep guns out
of the hands of those that commit gun crimes...leftists!

[Ed Huntress]

It's a nice thought, but I think even a genuine (and expensive) effort
would produce very little result, and only at the margins, at best.

We haven't seen the full report but Lanza apparently was somewhere on
the autism spectrum, possibly Asperger's syndrome, and that isn't
normally violent. Nor does it get you a mental-disorder report that
suggests you're dangerous. My wife, a special-ed teacher, has taught
dozens of those kids and I've been around many of them. I would never
associate it with the kind of lunacy that drove him to mass murder.

Lanza apparently tried to buy a gun at a gun shop but didn't want to
wait. (CT has a waiting period.) Maybe that could have stopped him
cold, if his mother didn't have guns. Or maybe he would have just
waited it out. It seems unlikely, from what we know about him so far,
that he would have been denied a legal purchase.

Another problem is that people who are denied guns, or anything else,
because of psych records are going to be litigating like hell. It
sounds like the Lawyer's Full Employment Act.

I'm just skeptical. I don't see us paying for it, nor do I see any way
it will be more than marginally effective.

>
>it should be about the broken people not the inadament objects.

That would be ideal. I don't think it will, or that it can, happen.

>
>i didn't say it's an easy task, but the fact that the focus of the debate is mostly on the objects and rather then the people is disingenuous at best.

Well, not necessarily. I would prefer not to see any bans, but making
it very difficult for nut cases to get guns sounds like a good idea. I
don't care what happens with ARs, but my concern now is, given the
polls, what else would get thrown out with the bathwater.

We've allowed a really sick gun culture to infect and overwhelm our
traditional one. I'm surprised that more people weren't alarmed before
now about what's happened to a gun culture in which the hottest
sellers are high-capacity military-style guns. And I'm a former DCM
range officer, myself, as well as a former NRA-certified rifle
instructor. I never imagined that marketing for one of the hottest
selling guns would be "Renew Your Man Card," and that it would work
like crazy.

--
Ed Huntress

[Tom Gardner]

Tell me, what percentage of murders are committed by AR's? Is
sensationalism and hype the best impetus for drastic laws that challenge
the Constitution? What if Lanza used a chainsaw? Would the left ban
chainsaws that had more than 1/2 oz gas tanks and one tooth chains or
make them hand-crank powered?

Probably 90% of AR's are in somebody's closet gathering dust until the
subject comes up and they get shown off, then back in the closet. They
are probably devoid of maintenance and won't work.

[Stanley Schaefer]

Because they're "assault rifle" barrels. Could be imported until BATF
changed it's collective mind a few years back. Can be imported if
they're torched in two, though. If you see parts kits for sale with
barrels, they're either new US mfg. barrels or the kits came in prior
to the ruling.

Stan

[Tom Gardner]

On 3/3/2013 6:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> We've allowed a really sick gun culture to infect and overwhelm our
> traditional one. I'm surprised that more people weren't alarmed before
> now about what's happened to a gun culture in which the hottest
> sellers are high-capacity military-style guns. And I'm a former DCM
> range officer, myself, as well as a former NRA-certified rifle
> instructor. I never imagined that marketing for one of the hottest
> selling guns would be "Renew Your Man Card," and that it would work
> like crazy.
>

Simple solution: In order to own guns you must be licensed, like a CCW.
Then you can own no guns or a bunch...the gov will never know.

[Ed Huntress]

I think you'll be better off. As for the "demonizing," it's the result
of some facts on the ground, some really perverse marketing, and that
sickness I talk about that has infected American gun culture. Of
course the press has picked up on it, particularly the horrific mass
killings in which they have been involved. They cover the news, and
that's been the news.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:39:27 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>

It's very small, but it really isn't a part of the perception, nor of
what they say about gun owners who defend them.

> Is
>sensationalism and hype the best impetus for drastic laws that challenge
>the Constitution?

Do you consider the mass murders at Aurora and Sandy Hook to be
"hype"? "Sensationalism"?

They ARE sensational, by their very nature. It doesn't require any
hype for the majority of Americans to recognize the role those guns
are playing.

>What if Lanza used a chainsaw? Would the left ban
>chainsaws that had more than 1/2 oz gas tanks and one tooth chains or
>make them hand-crank powered?

Firstly, he wouldn't have gotten very far with a chainsaw. That's what
guns are so ideal for, and at which they're so very effective. He
chose an AR for very good reasons. For his purpose, he picked the
right tool.

>
>Probably 90% of AR's are in somebody's closet gathering dust until the
>subject comes up and they get shown off, then back in the closet. They
>are probably devoid of maintenance and won't work.

That's probably true.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:43:50 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

It would do about half the job. Then you have to figure out what to do
about straw purchases.

What would you do?

--
Ed Huntress

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:lim7j8986gli82irs...@4ax.com...

>
> Another problem is that people who are denied guns, or anything else,
> because of psych records are going to
>

Gun show loophole

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States

[Ed Huntress]

Yeah, well, we're going to have 100% background checks before long.
The polls on this range from 80% in favor to 92% in favor. Among gun
owners, it runs from something like 70% to 85%.

That still leaves straw purchases untouched, from all sources.

--
Ed Huntress


>
>

[Michael A. Terrell]

RogerN wrote:
>
> "Ed Huntress" wrote in message
> news:dsm6j8l4kklb6hc0m...@4ax.com...
>
> ?On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner ?gunne...@gmail.com?
> ?wrote:
> ?
> ?snip?
> ???
> ???What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
> ??
> ??
> ??Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".
> ?
> ?He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible
> ?poodle-shooters."
>
> Why do you call it a poodle shooter?


Don't feed the whoremongering troll.

[Michael A. Terrell]

j...@teleport.com wrote:
>
> What is it that you think they're focused on fixing?
>
> You give them way too much credit.
> It's all about politics, and there is no focus to fix anything.
> If they wanted to fix something they'd focus on the "mental health"
> system. But that's way to difficult a problem and costs way to much
> money.


If they focused on mental health, most of their family friends would
be committed to overflowing asylums.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Gunner wrote:
>
> Eddie is a BlueStater from the East Coast. You will have to judge
> his postings based on that fact. Sadly


They are blue, because they never get enough oxygen to their tiny
brains. If their brains were normal sized, it would kill them rather
than make them babble like angry fools.

[whoyakidding's ghost]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:35:25 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:06:42 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
><precisionm...@notmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>news:lim7j8986gli82irs...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Another problem is that people who are denied guns, or anything else,
>>> because of psych records are going to
>>>
>>
>>Gun show loophole
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States
>
>Yeah, well, we're going to have 100% background checks before long.
>The polls on this range from 80% in favor to 92% in favor. Among gun
>owners, it runs from something like 70% to 85%.

... which I bet will prevent many posters here from qualifying.

>That still leaves straw purchases untouched, from all sources.

Straw buyers will be able to charge more and more for their
services... until they get caught. Then they can expect the same
public sentiment as child molesters. The hammer is coming down on the
whole racket. Eventually a lot of bozos will be lucky to afford a zip
gun.

[Snag]

I understand all that , Ed . My point was that it is a matter of
perception , not necessarily of fact . IF AR's were cheaper , I might have
bought one . There are , however , other choices out there that do the same
job equally well - or better .
BTW , I don't own an AK either .
--
Snag
My dick's
big enough
without a gun .
But I DO ride a Harley ...
Not to get all personal or anything , but on our wedding night she said
"you're gonna put that WHERE ?
Then she fainted .

[John B.]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 08:37:37 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 00:40:40 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>
>>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

>>news:ndm5j89dep987qp2i...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 22:40:31 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It seems the bolt carrier group is the hard to get part for AR-15's
>>>>currently. I have found old Colt M16 A1 parts kits, "good to excellent"
>>>>minus lower receiver and barrel (plus missing auto-sear or disconnector).
>>>>Would the M16 bolt carrier group be good in an AR-15?
>>>>
>>>>I found some bolt carrier groups in stock for $300 but the M16 parts kits
>>>>are available in the $500 - $600 range, seems to be a better value maybe.
>>>>I
>>>>read a review of one of these parts kits being assembled, they said it was
>>>>a
>>>>good shooter.
>>>>
>>>>RogerN
>>>
>>>Jesus. For a poodle shooter? I paid less than that for a classic Black
>>>Beauty Double in 12 gauge, and the forcing cone was even relieved for
>>>star crimps.

>>>
>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>>

>>>--
>>>Ed Huntress
>>
>>I'd probably just use it for target shooting and occasional varmints. The
>>cartridges are kind of cute, like miniatures of my hunting rifle Winchester
>>Magnum cartridges. We gave a lot of Coyotes around here, I can hear them
>>when a train is in the area. If it was legal to deer hunt with rifles here
>>I'd get a 308 version.
>>
>>I think I'll complete at least the "95%" receiver, I just have to drill 3
>>holes and mill out a pocket for the trigger group. If I ever get a shop
>>building here and get my machines moved there's a better chance of me
>>getting the 0% lowers done. The rifles are looking pretty cheap compared to
>>some of the optics, I'd like to have one with good daytime optics, one with
>>night vision, and one with FLIR if they become more affordable than the one
>>I saw for $7500.
>>
>>RogerN
>
>Wow. I hope you feel you're getting your money's worth.

Someone on another site mentioned that "if it is black and you call it
a "tactical" whatchamacallit you can charge double the price" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 08:54:29 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

>news:dsm6j8l4kklb6hc0m...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
><snip>

>>>>
>>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>>
>>>

>>>Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".
>>

>>He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible

>>poodle-shooters."
>
>Why do you call it a poodle shooter? The US military didn't use them to
>shoot poodles. The army manual says they can be effective out to 600 yards.
>I already have many rifles that aren't on the "assault weapons ban" list,
>I'm wanting the guns that gun grabbers don't want me to have.
>

No the Army determined that aimed fire, for all the talk about it, was
very seldom used in battle and that the number of causalities was in
direct proportion to the number of shots fired and that the longer
range capabilities of the 30-06 or 308 were almost never used in
actual combat which usually takes place at much shorter distances and
finally that a soldier can carry a lot more light ammunition than he
can heavy.

You can research this yourself as the information is in the public
domain.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:45:43 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 12:52:15 -0500, Ed Huntress
><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 09:47:25 -0800 (PST), j...@teleport.com wrote:
>>
>>>> >Just curious, do you really believe banning a particular style of weapon is
>>>>
>>>> >going to fix the urban/social problem?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>
>>>
>>>Well I was just trying to figure out if you were a real "whacky" or if there
>>>was some thought running around up there.
>>>
>>>Yeah, I syppathize with your frustration.
>>>
>>>I'll tell ya, it's interesting as hell to walk into a gun store and see
>>>weapons I bought over two decades ago going for 400% of what I paid for them.
>>
>>Well, the Browning Superposed my aunt bought for my uncle in 1952 (at
>>Abercrombie & Fitch in NYC -- another story) cost her $64. I had the
>>receipt. <g>
>
>And the average weekly wage was under $20 in 1952
>>
I don't know about "average" but I was making $60.00 a week in 1952.

>
>Tell that to the Koreans in LA
>
>Gunner
--
Cheers,

John B.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:51:05 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:


<snip>
>No. But outlawing the practice of walking through town...
<snip>

================


The problem is that no one has any data on what the real
problem(s) are, only on the means and tools immediately used
in creating these incidents.

Two current examples:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57571814-504083/tanya-byrd-update-bronx-murder-suspect-took-photo-with-severed-head-of-his-mother-report-says/
<snip>
A New York man charged with the death of his mother and
scattering her dismembered remains across a Bronx
neighborhood allegedly took a picture of himself holding her
severed head,
<snip>
McLean and his friend, 26-year-old William Harris, were both
charged with hindering prosecution and unlawful dissection
of a human body. Harris also faces charges of criminal
possession of stolen property and unlawful possession of
marijuana,
<snip>

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/bronx_held_without_allegedly_dismembered_FMZGjD3IPYzddMJFq5OiuI
<snip>
The Bronx man accused of killing and dismembering his mother
before taking a picture of himself with her severed head
appeared in court today in nothing but a garbage bag.
<snip>
McLean�s pal, William Harris, 26, also appeared in court on
charges that he helped McLean chop up the body with a brand
new power saw, and toss it out with neighborhood trash.
<snip>
As for the trash sack he wore -- much like the bags he and a
friend allegedly used to ditch the victim�s mutilated body
-- �He kept urinating on himself,� said defense lawyer Jerry
Iannece, who didn�t even challenge a judge�s order to remand
the suspect.
<snip>

Undoubtedly a pair of severely disturbed and susceptible
individuals, but ==> what are the odds they both went out of
their conk at the same time because of endogenous or
�natural� causes?<== The odds of this are in the trillions
to one range. As these were apparently �best buds,� it is
far more likely they smoked the same junk (what ever it
contained), drank the same �energy� drink, etc.,there was an
adverse reaction between some of the �ingredients,�
anti-smoking patches (nicotine and ?) and possibly what ever
the NYC social services is passing out for anti psychotic
drugs these days. Apparently there was never any blood,
hair, saliva or urine samples taken, nor CAT/MRI scans made
of their heads, so we may never know.

-----
Second example is a factory murder in Switzerland with 4
dead (including the perp by suicide) and 6 wounded.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/27/world/europe/switzerland-shooting
<snip>
The gunman, 42, was a long-time employee of Kronospan, a
wood panel manufacturer in the village of Menznau, about 30
kilometers (19 miles) outside Lucerne, police said.
The factory employs 350 people, according to a Lucerne-based
newspaper.
It's unclear why the gunman opened fire as employees were
taking a morning break.
<snip>

*********************
What is abundantly clear is something else besides �guns� is
the problem, if only because guns were far more accessible
in the past and far more people were familiar with their
use, with far lower incident rates.

I wrote both my Federal and State legislators on this two
weeks ago (still no response) suggesting the positive action
item of mandating the gathering of facts/data/evidence in
these cases (beyond who done it), the establishment of a
central database, and an intensive epidemiological study of
possible contributing factors such as the consumption of
high caffeine drinks and violent video games with
unprecedented levels of virtual reality. This appears to be
a world wide problem, and a central database will be
critical to identifying the causes and not just the
symptoms.

If anyone wants to use all or any of my letter to write
their legislators feel free to do so.

FWIW � After I wrote and sent the following email, I
discovered two of the physical symptoms of anabolic steroid
use are large amounts of acne or blackheads on the face and
upper shoulders, and a feminization of the male nipples.
Conversation with several recently returned troops from
Afghanistan indicated that acne, rashes and back heads are
an endemic problem, but it was blamed on the lack of bathing
facilities and the climate, which leaves unanswered why the
Afghans don't seem to have the same sorts of problems. And
yes, in preparation for and during operations, pills were
frequently distributed to help them stay alert and
energized... Also Adderol the drug of choice for ADHD (to
help the patient focus on the task at hand) is a
psychostimulant medication that contains amphetamine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall Some of the known
side effects include Aggressive Behavior, Taking Habit
Forming Drugs , and Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal
Personality & Reality
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-63163-Adderall+Oral.aspx?drugid=63163&drugname=Adderall+Oral&pagenumber=6

---- email to Kansas state representatives follows -----
To:
State Senator Jeff King
State Representative Vergil Peck

From:
Dr. George McDuffee
gmcd...@terraworld.net

Date:
Wednesday 13 February 2013

Subject:
Data collection on the possible causes of the recent
apparent upsurge in irrational and increasingly violent
incidents.

While the following proposal is indeed highly intrusive, it
is less intrusive than the alternative of revoking one of
the specifically enumerated rights of American citizens
contained in the Bill of Rights of the Constitution. This is
not a case of selecting the good over the bad, but rather
selecting the bad over the worse.

It appears clear from the recent media reports there is a
huge increase in violent irrational incidents of all types,
only some of which involve firearms, albeit these receive
the most media attention. As firearms have been far more
widely available in the past, something else must have
changed. Unfortunately, we seem to be mired in endless
wrangling over stale arguments going back 100 years or more,
and about symptoms, rather than identifying/addressing the
current problems.

Rather than continued theorizing of minimal to no utility,
it is strongly suggested the state of Kansas take the lead
in compiling hard data on, not only firearm related, but all
violent and irrational crime resulting in, OR WHICH COULD
HAVE RESULTED IN, death or serious injury. One example of a
non-firearm, non-veteran irrational and violent incident
that resulted in death can be seen at
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-12/wife-of-former-upenn-basketball-star-charged-with-his-murder.html

This should be a separate line of inquiry from the normal
police investigatory process, although the some of the same
data may well be recovered by normal parallel police
investigation. This differentiation is important because if
the information and data developed by this process is not
allowed as evidence in a civil or criminal legal action, the
right of the accused perpetrator to refuse to participate or
cooperate with this investigation on the grounds of self
incrimination, medical privacy, etc., are also eliminated.
While in many cases a proximate or immediate cause of a
particular incident can be identified, the intent of the
following suggestions is to identify the CHAIN OF CAUSALITY,
establish common links or stages in these chains across
incidents, and if possible identify the stages or links
where these incidents could have been prevented at minimal
cost and intrusion, rather than tampering with the Bill of
Rights of the U.S. Constitution.

Specifically what is suggested is the enactment of a
statute, backed with criminal sanctions including heavy
fines and prison time, eliminating local police discretion
as to the types and amounts of information collected on
violent and irrational incidents, the amounts and types of
information they must release, although not necessarily to
the public, and establishing a central state wide data
repository, possibly under the State Department of Health,
on these incidents.

This is critical for two reasons: (1) This can provide early
warning of trends; and (2) The amassing of data, from
otherwise isolated incidents, allows statistical tests, such
as epidemiological studies, to be performed, particularly
when other data sources such as the introduction and
production/consumption amounts of �new� substances such as
food additives, household chemicals, pesticides, etc., or
new social factors such as violent video games, with
unprecedented levels of virtual reality, are included.

Some specific actions (most likely there are many others)
that should be included the mandatory violent/irrational
incident investigation protocol are:

I. As soon as practicable after the arrest of a suspect, or
the recovery of their body, the following *MUST* be
performed/accomplished by the arresting department, using
the nearest suitable medical facility:

A. Blood, saliva, hair and urine samples must be obtained
and forwarded to the KBI, under the normal �chain of
evidence� controls, for a complete toxicological scan for
known legal and illegal drugs, unknown substances, heavy
metals and unusual concentrations of naturally occurring
components such as blood sugar or adrenalin. So there is
minimal delay, the statute should explicitly provide that a
judge shall issue an order to sedate or anesthetize the
suspect, if required, for any or all of these procedures.

B. A CAT or MRI scan of the suspect's head to detect any
abnormalities or evidence of injuries such as a concussion.
So there is minimal delay, the statute should explicitly
provide that a judge shall issue an order to sedate or
anesthetize the suspect, if required, for any or all of
these procedures. Depending on the results of the MRI/CAT
scans, other medical tests such as a Wassermann test for
syphilis may also be ordered.

C. An interview of the suspect by a qualified forensic
psychologist to determine prima facie sanity, and if the
suspect is cooperative conduct more in depth interviews to
determine characteristics such as the amount and type of TV
watched, amount and type of video games played, recreational
drug and alcohol use, amount and types of nicotine/tobacco
use, amount and types of caffeine consumption including
�energy drinks,� etc. This data to be forwarded to the
central data repository for coding and inclusion in the
database. As this is self reported data, from an individual
who may well be a pathological liar, it should be �vetted�
to the extent possible.

D. A through search of the suspects residence(s), out
buildings, rental storage units, vehicles, etc. with a
search warrant, possibly expedited, with seizure as
appropriate, particularly, for legal/prescription and
illegal drugs, violent video games, violent/snuff
pornography, child pornography, unusual or exceptional
amounts or types of ammunition, firearms or knives/swords,
cult religious or extremist political literature, bondage
and discipline paraphernalia, etc. with a full inventory to
the central database for coding and inclusion. Of special
importance will be the examination of any home computers,
emails and other correspondence, as to not only their
content, but their addressees or senders, with the names and
addresses entered in the database and cross-referenced to
determine if there was any common communications links
between the suspects.

Given the wide availability of inexpensive digital cameras,
maximum use should be made to photograph and forward all
�unusual� art (including tattoos) and objects to the central
data repository. A ruler should be included in all
photographs to provide an indication of size/scale.


E. The TSA should be contacted to determine the dates and
destinations of air trips for the preceding year, and this
information should entered in the database and cross
referenced to determine if there were any common
destinations between/among suspects, e.g. did they all
travel to the same city or did they all take an out of state
trip in the 60 day period preceding the violent illogical
incident?

II. The following should *NOT* be conducted by the *LOCAL*
law enforcement agency because of likely serious personal
departmental and local community �conflicts of interest,�
and indeed, in many cases will most expeditiously
accomplished through the state regulatory/licensing bodies
rather than the normal law enforcement/investigative
agencies, with the information sent directly to the central
data repository for coding and database entry, to prevent
�editing� or �short stopping.�

A. A review of all local [including adjacent jurisdictions,
sheriff's departments, etc.] police reports and other
documents such as field interrogation cards that mention the
suspect, including any juvenile records, reports of
incidents at the residence(s) of the suspect (such as
parental spousal abuse or animal cruelty), with copies to
the central data repository for coding and inclusion in the
database. This is an area where it will be particularly
necessary to provide severe criminal penalties for
concealment or omission of records. If the data isn't
computerized to allow easy retrieval and cross referencing,
this indicates a serious separate problem, given the very
low cost of personal computers, and the large amounts of
state and federal funds expended to upgrade local law
enforcement, which must be corrected.

B. A review of all state/local social service and child
welfare agency records that mention the suspect, with copies
to the central data repository for coding and inclusion in
the data base. Any record of child abuse, neglect or
molestation or referral for psychiatric services, are of
particular concern. This is an area where it will be
particularly necessary to provide severe criminal penalties
for concealment or omission of records.

C. A review of all state pharmacy records for legal drugs
purchased by the suspect for the previous three years, with
copies to the central data repository for coding and
inclusion in the data base. This is an area where it will
be particularly necessary to provide severe criminal
penalties for concealment or omission of records.

D. Requiring all licensed physicians in the state to
provide records of any treatment the suspect may have
received in the previous three years. Depending on what
these records indicate, additional history may be required.
This is analogous to the requirement that certain
communicable diseases, child molestation, and gunshot
wounds must be reported. This is an area where it will be
particularly necessary to provide severe criminal penalties
for concealment or omission of records.

E. If possible juvenile problems are indicated, requiring
all school records, particularly including disciplinary and
guidance records to be provided for coding and inclusion in
the database. This is an area where it will be particularly
necessary to provide severe criminal penalties for
concealment or omission of records.

F. If the available/compiled records indicate out of state
residence periods, request other law enforcement agencies
for information via NCIC through the KBI, and request
similar information from corresponding social service and
professional regulatory agencies in other states through the
Kansas agencies, with the information to be sent directly to
the central data repository for coding and entry.

G. If the suspect served in the Armed forces, data should
include their service record, particularly combat tours,
injuries, and combat related commendations/awards.

----- end of email


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Snag" <snag...@att.net> wrote in message
news:EWQYs.132990$Hq1....@newsfe23.iad...

> As I said upthread , I neither own nor desire to own an AR-platform
> weapon

I have several...they've got laser targeting, 5000 round magazines, they're
turret mounted, and servo controlled via linux emc...

[Snag]

I guess this means you need a wheelbarrow to haul your dick around ...

[Homer Stille Cummings]

Bullshit.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:13:48 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

>news:lt87j81j3510r7ude...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Maybe never. No sex in shotguns. No man cards.
>>
>> Need big magazine, like big testicles. Military-style gun. Mucho
>> macho. Look like movie poster. Man-Card gun.
>> Ed Huntress
>
>Note the leftwinger obsession with Feel instead of Think.

Is he also the one who trotted out "Why do you need that kind of
weapon for hunting?" etc.

>You were once so rational. Now you are even forgetting how to spell,
>which is a sad decline for an editor.
>
>"playwrite" instead of playwright
>"hoard of gang-bangers" instead of horde

Senility (or Alzy?) is hell for him, I'll bet. Well, it would be if
he still has any sense of reality left in him. <g>

Join me: Plonk him and forget him.

--
If more sane people were armed,
crazy people would get off fewer shots.
Support the 2nd Amendment

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:35:19 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 08:54:29 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>

>>And if the gun grabbers start confiscating guns, I hope to join the 2nd
>>civil war and die fighting for my country giving the anti-Americans my ammo
>>first.
>
>
>Roger..plan to make the other poor bastard die for HIS bleeves. It
>makes retirement and getting a bit of pussy now and then..so much
>better when you are there to enjoy it.

I -believe- (hope?) he meant that he was going to give those damned
anti-American gun grabbers his ammo one round at a time, starting with
the heavy ends.

And, yes, winning means letting the other guy die instead of yourself.

Vive le Résistance!

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:39:16 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>Eddie is a BlueStater from the East Coast. You will have to judge
>his postings based on that fact. Sadly

Ed is a poodle. 'Nuff said?

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Homer Stille Cummings" <ag@just_us.göv> wrote in message
news:3ca9f$513420f2$414e828e$25...@EVERESTKC.NET...

http://www.rosswalker.co.uk/tv_sounds/sounds_files_20100522_6746301/looney_toons/foghorn_bowling_ball.wav

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 15:02:11 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:33:43 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:

>
>>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 09:18:56 -0500, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:24:23 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>

>>>>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 00:06:00 -0500, Ed Huntress
>>>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 22:40:31 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It seems the bolt carrier group is the hard to get part for AR-15's
>>>>>>currently. I have found old Colt M16 A1 parts kits, "good to excellent"
>>>>>>minus lower receiver and barrel (plus missing auto-sear or disconnector).
>>>>>>Would the M16 bolt carrier group be good in an AR-15?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I found some bolt carrier groups in stock for $300 but the M16 parts kits
>>>>>>are available in the $500 - $600 range, seems to be a better value maybe. I
>>>>>>read a review of one of these parts kits being assembled, they said it was a
>>>>>>good shooter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>RogerN
>>>>>
>>>>>Jesus. For a poodle shooter? I paid less than that for a classic Black
>>>>>Beauty Double in 12 gauge, and the forcing cone was even relieved for
>>>>>star crimps.
>>>>>

>>>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Im sure he is going to simply "collect it".
>>>
>>>He builds it, and then collects it?? "RogernN, maker of collectible
>>>poodle-shooters."
>>

>>Some people collect Beanie Babies, others collect Hummel porcelein,
>>others collect rubber bands. A "poodle shooter" has been fine for the
>>US military (and many other nations) for 50 yrs so far. So whats
>>your problem?
>
>Made by Roger? That's collectible??

Sure it is. Its work at least $1000. That...is collectable.
>
>>
>>Your president has made many large Gifts of them to other nations and
>>many cartels. You mean he is a cheap bastard for handing them out
>>like candy?

>
>They're for killing people. That's who gets them -- people who are
>going to kill, or threaten to kill, other people. That's what they're
>for, that's what they're all about, and that's why they're out there.

Odd..then why are there far far more hammer deaths then AR15 deaths
each year? Are you claiming that Hammers are made for killing people?
Or just tryin to avoid that because it makes you look like an utter
idiot?

>
>How about ol' Rog? Besides, he's clearly said that he hopes to use it
>for shooting people in the "Second Civil War." That isn't collecting,
>unless he's planning to mount their heads for display on his wall.

When the Great Cull happens..and it will...<VBG>..one will need
something to defend oneself from those rampaging herds of stampeding
Leftwingers. One could use an AR to shoot enough of them to get a
good pile going so you can hide behind it and not be trampled by them.

Seems like a couple magazines fired into the foremost line of the herd
could get a pretty good breakwater up, dont you think?

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 15:17:09 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:42:36 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 11:51:05 -0500, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 07:58:13 -0800 (PST), j...@teleport.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because they're the weapon of choice for gun owners to kill masses of
>>>>>
>>>>> 1st grade children and theater goers. It's a cultural thing, like
>>>>>
>>>>> outlawing the wearing of pants on Main Street, that have no crotch.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ed,

>>>>
>>>>Just curious, do you really believe banning a particular style of weapon is
>>>>going to fix the urban/social problem?
>>>

>>>No. But outlawing the practice of walking through town with your dick
>>>hanging out isn't going to stop rapes, either. I have no problem with
>>>people who want to outlaw either one. As Robert Bork said, all laws
>>>are legislation of morality, and many of those moral choices we have
>>>to live with are the opinions of other people. That's democracy for
>>>you.
>>>
>>>Look, Roger let on that his real reason for building an AR is to be
>>>ready to slaughter liberals in the Second Civil War. Like Gunner and
>>>Larry, he's a Walter Mitty Minuteman, with camo and night-vision
>>>goggles. He yearns for the opportunity to kill people he doesn't like
>>>and he knows that an AR is both practically and symbolically the right
>>>tool for the job.
>>>
>>>Roger wants to flaunt the child-killing guns, the guns used for mass
>>>slaughter of civilians. Based on the polls, most people consider those
>>>guns to be obscene, for just that reason. I'd like to see how many
>>>people think that walking down the street waving your wang is obscene.
>>>I'll guess that the numbers are similar.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Forget politics for a bit, but just focus on the social issue. What would you
>>>>do to solve the problem?
>>>
>>>The urban social problem? Sorry, that one is 'way above my pay grade.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>You seem to be familiar with guns, what weapon would be a better choice for close in work?
>>>
>>>On first graders, or on liberals?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do you really believe it's about the weapon or people? I guess that's what
>>>>I'd like to know about you?
>>>
>>>It's the weapons that those people choose, and it's the people
>>>themselves. The two go together like a hand in a glove.
>>>
>>>The obnoxious thing about ARs, particularly of those that people have
>>>bought in the last few months, is that the big attraction is that
>>>they're the best, proven massacre guns on the civilian market. They
>>>have fame by association and people are paying outrageous sums for
>>>fame, to get a little of that "Man Card" rub-off that Bushmaster
>>>promoted before Sandy Hook. (they've taken their ads for that down. No
>>>more "renewing your Man Card" with a Bushmaster, bub. But Bushmaster
>>>knew their market, all right.) They're really shitty guns for any
>>>reasonable civilian use: ammo-sensitive, requiring stunt work to shoot
>>>anywhere near the groups of a good bolt-action; terrible lock times
>>>from early in the last century, like a 1917 Enfield; in .223, one of
>>>the more useless cartridges for civilian use this side of a .25-20.
>>>
>>>But they're great for killing kids huddled up in a classroom.
>>>
>>>Instead of wanting to distance themselves from the guns used in Aurora
>>>and Sandy Hook, these clowns seem to be buying them because of their
>>>fame as slaughter-guns. They're evidence of a disease that has
>>>permeated gun culture in the US, and my fear is that it could be
>>>fatal.
>>>
>>>Now, stand back while I paper-patch my smoke pole, by cracky. d8-)
>>
>>Isnt it interesting to watch the Eastern Blue State mind set displayed
>>publicly like that, boys and girls?
>>
>>This is the sort of thing that those of us that live west of Boston so
>>often never see.
>>
>>Read it again and again..and remember where DC is.
>
>Right! And check out the latest Fox News poll to see what *real*
>Americans think about banning ARs and other semi-automatic weapons. In
>the poll, 54% to 42% want to...uh...ummm................ban them.
>
><sob!>
>
>http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/01/18/fox-news-poll-gun-rights-and-gun-control/

January 18th is the latest poll?

Laugh laugh laugh!

Try again Teddy.

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 15:43:13 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 12:29:09 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:45:11 -0500, Ed Huntress
>><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 13:15:14 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

>>><murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

>>>>news:k227j812i8iont4r5...@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 12:24:55 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

>>>>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

>>>>>>news:35t6j81f4e5lrcaj2...@4ax.com...

>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 07:58:13 -0800 (PST), j...@teleport.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The obnoxious thing about ARs, particularly of those that people
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> bought in the last few months, is that the big attraction is that
>>>>>>> they're the best, proven massacre guns on the civilian market.
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Last week I stopped by the station and took a peek at the local SWAT
>>>>>>team's gear. They've changed from HKs to those 'really shitty'
>>>>>>massacre guns, short barrel and full auto.
>>>>>
>>>>> The quote was:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'They're really shitty guns for any reasonable civilian use:

>>>>> ammo-sensitive, requiring stunt work to shoot anywhere near the
>>>>> groups
>>>>> of a good bolt-action; terrible lock times from early in the last
>>>>> century, like a 1917 Enfield; in .223, one of the more useless
>>>>> cartridges for civilian use this side of a .25-20."
>>>>>

>>>>> Now, if you consider the work of a SWAT team to be a "reasonable
>>>>> civilian use," you're part of the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did you snip that out?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>
>>>>For Army and Marine veterans the operation of the AR-15 is instinctive
>>>>when they jump out of bed from a loud noise in the night. It goes from
>>>>safely unloaded to fully ready to shoot in under two seconds. Perhaps
>>>>Navy and AF vets and civilians would be better off with a shotgun,
>>>>though you can't slap a mag in an unloaded one by feel. I carried a
>>>>.45ACP on duty too but didn't train enough with it.
>>>>http://everything2.com/title/Performing+combat+S.P.O.R.T.S.
>>>>jsw
>>>
>>>Hmm. Marines. Camo. Slappin' mags. Shoot in two seconds. 'Sounds like
>>>candy for a mass-murdering nutcase.
>>>
>>>Which, of course, is why they use them. That's their identity. That's
>>>their attraction. And that's why, in a civilian environment, even in
>>>NORTH FREAKING CAROLINA (poll reported from HPU Survey Research
>>>Center, 2/28/13), more than half of Americans want to ban those
>>>obscene suckers.
>>
>>
>>Isnt that Pesky 2nd Amendment a total pain in the ass for you Blue
>>staters and the Media who propagandize so well?
>
>Not at all. The Second Amerndment doesn't protect them. See D.C. v.
>Heller. Where does it say ARs are protected?

"The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be Infringed"

2nd Amendment covers it quite nicely, thank you very much

[Gunner]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 15:27:11 -0600, "Snag" <snag...@att.net> wrote:

>Ed Huntress wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 12:29:09 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Isnt that Pesky 2nd Amendment a total pain in the ass for you Blue
>>> staters and the Media who propagandize so well?
>>
>> Not at all. The Second Amerndment doesn't protect them. See D.C. v.
>> Heller. Where does it say ARs are protected?
>

> Actually Gunner , he's just expressing his opinion of one particular model
>of semi-auto rifle . While I see the utility value of a semi-auto for
>certain situations ... I do not now own nor do I plan on purchasing an
>AR15/M16 clone . It's long been my opinion that they're not worth the asking
>price TO ME . 5.56 MM is designed to WOUND , which ties up a lot more
>resources and personnel than outright killing . While that is acceptable and
>in fact desirable in a military action , I for one do not want a bunch of
>wounded guys hollerin' out in the front yard . Not only will that attract
>more pests , it may very well disturb my sleep . I like .30 cal minimum for
>defense ...
> Now before y'all jump on me for "wanting to mow 'em down as they attack"
>let me just say that that is ONE scenario , which if I get my stuff right
>will never happen . I'd much rather slip away unseen and unheard than have
>an armed confrontation . Actually , where I'm moving to pretty much
>everybody is of a like mind , rendering the point moot . Country boy can
>survive ...


Oh..I agree. I own a couple or 3 AR type weapons..but they are in
Arizona and Ive not laid hands on them in 5 yrs. I also own some
magazine fed 30 calibers..and they are in Arizona as well. California
Assault Weapons bans never ended. The only thing I have is a Mini-14
and an FN49..both of which are legal here in California. I had to
sell the M1A a couple years ago unfortunately. Shrug

Now I do have a number of long guns,...all of which are head and hands
far far more potent than the poodle shooters. (Not counting the 22s
of course). Hell..one of my favorite social weapons is a Marlin 1894
in 44 magnum. A good stout load and a 240gr JHP is not something the
average puke is going to suck up and survive, etc etc etc

Now I live in the high desert..so keeping the bad guys way way out
there and away from my AO is why I specialize in more potent
arms...300 Win Mag, 7mm Mag, '06 and a host of other calibers suitble
for 600-1000 yr ranges. Its interesting what one can do with a 300
Win Mag handloaded with AP bullets readily available for cheap on the
internet. Goes through body armor like a harpoon through water.

Hell..a nice 500gr bullet out of the 45-70 likely wont penetrate body
armor..but it will crush any bone inside that armor, like a bowling
ball from a tall building. Far more amusing than that dinky little
.223. Will nearly lift a man off his feet and when he comes down..he
wont be getting up anytime soon and one can simply walk up and stamp
on his throat a couple times and be done with him.

But that being said...there are some 135 million gun owners out there
being threatened by a very small number of mentally ill space cadets
and I simply have to get in a few verbal shots in the preliminary
festivities that are leading up to the Great Cull, Second American
Revolution..whatever one wishes to call it.

Afterall..as a life long Lovable Harmless Fuzzball, one doesnt expect
me to be firing actual bullets at those freaks and mental cases on the
Left.

What would be the point? A very large portion of those 135 million gun
owners will be hunting for those Leftwingers and simply killing them
by any method that pleases or amuses them. There simply wont be enough
Leftwingers to go around. So all Im going to be doing is sitting on
the front porch, feet up on the rail..playing happy riffs on the banjo
as the ever increasing body count is reported over the radio beside
me.

Afterall..I am an old man...creak..groan...shuffle...and Id have to
drive more than 100 miles just to find a Leftwinger. Shrug...Ive got
more than a few memories of taking heads in my youth...I can live just
fine with that. But to you young guys...Happy Hunting!!

Black Flag, no quarter!!

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:08:48 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 12:58:11 -0800 (PST), "dca...@krl.org"
><dca...@krl.org> wrote:

>
>>On Mar 3, 2:29 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Maybe never. No sex in shotguns. No man cards.
>>>
>>>

>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>>Maybe but the Marines where I used to work carried shotguns. Look on
>>the internet for street sweeper shotgun.
>
>NFA "Destructive device." Class 3. Unlikely to be a problem.


When the laws go up in smoke...think Class 3 will mean anything?

<VBG>

The Feral Government is going to be discovering that they really
really underestimated the numbers of such devices, machine guns and so
forth..that are in the publics hands. By a significant amount.

And with the termination of each agent of that Feral Government..their
Class 3 weapons will fall into the hands of the People as well. Not
to mention the various entities that simply fill a deuce and a half
with goodies..and drive off into the sunset on their way home.

Thank Crom I live in a nice rural Red area.

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:37:51 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:13:48 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

><murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

>>news:lt87j81j3510r7ude...@4ax.com...

>>>
>>> Maybe never. No sex in shotguns. No man cards.
>>>

>>> Need big magazine, like big testicles. Military-style gun. Mucho
>>> macho. Look like movie poster. Man-Card gun.
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>>Note the leftwinger obsession with Feel instead of Think.
>

>It's "feel" that's going to determine the political outcome. If you
>don't get that by now, you're dead on arrival.

Think Feel is more powerful than a 30-30? Think again.

<VBG>

>
>>
>>You were once so rational. Now you are even forgetting how to spell,
>>which is a sad decline for an editor.
>

>Idiot.

Yes..you are getting to be just that.

>
>>
>>"playwrite" instead of playwright
>>"hoard of gang-bangers" instead of horde
>

>Oooh...a grammarist. <g> I don't edit my posts, Jim. Neither do I get
>on people for spelling or grammatical errors here, unless they're
>really, really funny. d8-)
>
>"A person who writes plays is a playwright, not a playwrite, but the
>act of writing plays is usually spelled playwriting."

And Hoard?

Laugh laugh laugh!!

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:47:52 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:29:11 -0600, "Snag" <snag...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:07:12 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

>>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

>>>> news:seg7j89e4hd2ud7vp...@4ax.com...

>>>>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:13:48 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> You were once so rational. Now you are even forgetting how to
>>>>>> spell, which is a sad decline for an editor.
>>>>>>

>>>>>> "playwrite" instead of playwright
>>>>>> "hoard of gang-bangers" instead of horde
>>>>>
>>>>> Oooh...a grammarist. <g> I don't edit my posts, Jim. Neither do I
>>>>> get
>>>>> on people for spelling or grammatical errors here, unless they're
>>>>> really, really funny. d8-)
>>>>>
>>>>> "A person who writes plays is a playwright, not a playwrite, but the
>>>>> act of writing plays is usually spelled playwriting."

>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>
>>>> -"That's what I meant, fer chrissake...."
>>>> -"oh, cripes. This must be the stroke talking.."
>>>> -Ed Huntress
>>>
>>> That's Gunner's stroke. As he's done several times lately, he's
>>> "corrected" what I've said...by saying exactly the same thing himself.
>>> It's something I don't remember him doing in the past, and it's
>>> worrisome.
>>>
>>> Now, are you going to do a Gunner and ask for a "cite"? There's one
>>> right there, if you follow the thread back a couple of posts.
>>>
>>> But the bigger question is, what is your point? Are you trying to
>>> argue by pointing out spelling errors? Is that how far you've sunk,
>>> with nothing else to grab onto?
>>>
>>> I think so. Your arguments, like those of the gun nutz in general, are
>>> DOA. You're floundering and sputtering over the recent polls. They
>>> have you worried.
>>>
>>> They should.
>>
>> I would ask about the demographics of those polled . Equal weight and
>>numbers for midwest farmers , Wyoming cowboys , NYC urbanites , Arkansas
>>hillbillies , etc . As Sam Clemens said , there're 3 kinds - liars , damn
>>liars , and statisticians .
>
>When you get 5 or 6 polls from different sources, ranging from ABC to
>Fox News, and they all say roughly the same thing, it's time to stop
>trying to second-guess their sampling methods.

>
>Those polls are all run by experts who know exactly how to do a random
>sample, Snag. You won't get anywhere by trying to pick holes in them,
>except to dig a hole of denial for yourself.

So you are avoiding the fact that those polls may not be quite so
random, arnt you?

Pity you should try that.

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:50:45 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:22:13 -0600, "Snag" <snag...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> Those polls are all run by experts who know exactly how to do a random
>>> sample, Snag. You won't get anywhere by trying to pick holes in them,
>>> except to dig a hole of denial for yourself.
>>

>> As I said upthread , I neither own nor desire to own an AR-platform weapon

>>. I also agree with <you?> whoever it was that said <basically> that this
>>particular firearm has been demonized by the MSM .
>>EEEEEEEeeeeeviiiiillllllllll assault weapon ! Good only for killin'
>>innercent chirrens and mall shoppers .
>> I'll just have to make do with Dad's 7.7 Arisaka and my 20 ga bolt shotgun
>>. Oh , and that bow and arrow set I made from an Osage Orange tree and plum
>>saplings .
>
>I think you'll be better off. As for the "demonizing," it's the result
>of some facts on the ground, some really perverse marketing, and that
>sickness I talk about that has infected American gun culture. Of
>course the press has picked up on it, particularly the horrific mass
>killings in which they have been involved. They cover the news, and
>that's been the news.

Yet they somehow ignore their problem children..say..in Chicago..who
killed well over 500 people last year and maimed another 10,000

Talk about Perverse Marketing....

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:15:53 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 3/3/2013 3:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>
>> They're for killing people. That's who gets them -- people who are
>> going to kill, or threaten to kill, other people. That's what they're
>> for, that's what they're all about, and that's why they're out there.
>>
>

>Except for the millions and millions that are used for organized sports
>and other very responsible uses.
>
>And, they are far less lethal than originally designed, the Army's
>changes fucked that all up.

It depends on which barrel twist one put on it.

And what weight bullet is fired from it. If one simply loads the old
faithful 50-55gr softpoints, even in todays barrels..it becomes a very
very interersting choice of whether to use a garden hose or a firehose
to clean the blood and tissue off the surrounding areas

Gunner

[Gunner]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 16:53:25 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Tom Gardner" <to...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:kh0ei5$ve$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>> On 3/3/2013 3:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>
>>> They're for killing people. That's who gets them -- people who are
>>> going to kill, or threaten to kill, other people. That's what
>>> they're
>>> for, that's what they're all about, and that's why they're out
>>> there.
>>>
>>
>> Except for the millions and millions that are used for organized
>> sports and other very responsible uses.
>>
>> And, they are far less lethal than originally designed, the Army's
>> changes fucked that all up.
>

>That doesn't matter.
>
>They generate a conditioned fear response planted by the media, most
>evident in urbanites with no actual counterbalancing experience with
>them. So do chainsaws.
>
>It's ironic that the most supposedly civilized environment induces the
>most primitive fear and helplessness.
>
Very well stated! Bravo!

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:02:51 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:15:53 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>

>>On 3/3/2013 3:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>
>>> They're for killing people. That's who gets them -- people who are
>>> going to kill, or threaten to kill, other people. That's what they're
>>> for, that's what they're all about, and that's why they're out there.
>>>
>>
>>Except for the millions and millions that are used for organized sports
>>and other very responsible uses.
>

>Sure. But as for the "millions and millions," figures projected from
>the NRA-researched number from a few years ago up to Dec. 2012 says
>there are around 3,750,000 of them in the US. That's around 1.2% of
>guns.
>
>Here's the best work at estimating that I've seen:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/bwgyhg6
>
>But again, the entire design and concept is guns for killing people. I
>know that the same is true of my .45 ACP 1911 Colt, but because of its
>age and limited magazine capacity, the original purpose of the gun
>doesn't hit people in the face like the hit they get when they see an
>AR-15, and think about where it comes from.
>
>You should realize, and I'm sure you do, that the entire political
>issue is a matter of perceptions. And the results of the Fox News
>poll, and virtually every other recent poll, tell you where that
>perception lies.
>
>The indisputable fact is that, since the early '90s, when I was a DCM
>range officer and was defending them in Trenton, even providing
>testimony in favor ot them, the marketing ("Renew Your Man Card," says
>the bare-chested dude holding a Bushmaster in a menacing pose) and the
>role these guns fulfill in the commando-wannabe world have made them
>the gun of choice by the mass-murdering loons. Not for ordinary crime,
>but for the horror shows that have made people stop and ask what kind
>of a gun culture they want for this country.

>
>>
>>And, they are far less lethal than originally designed, the Army's
>>changes fucked that all up.
>

>Gee, what a shame. That's going to make it harder for loony gun owners
>to shoot up classrooms. They may have to used big magazines and shoot
>toddlers multiple times to be sure they're dead.
>
>Oh, that's just what Adam Lanza did, isn't it.....

And the ending of Eds post shows how far Left he has withdrawn in his
own little world.

Sad isnt it?

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:32:51 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>We've allowed a really sick gun culture to infect and overwhelm our
>traditional one.


What part is the "sick gun culture" in your "opinion"?

Having the ability guaranteed by the Founds and the 2nd Amendment?

(I suspect we are going to be hearing a rational all kind and sweet
about dove hunting and bird shot)

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:43:50 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 3/3/2013 6:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> We've allowed a really sick gun culture to infect and overwhelm our

>> traditional one. I'm surprised that more people weren't alarmed before
>> now about what's happened to a gun culture in which the hottest
>> sellers are high-capacity military-style guns. And I'm a former DCM
>> range officer, myself, as well as a former NRA-certified rifle
>> instructor. I never imagined that marketing for one of the hottest
>> selling guns would be "Renew Your Man Card," and that it would work
>> like crazy.
>>
>
>
>Simple solution: In order to own guns you must be licensed, like a CCW.
> Then you can own no guns or a bunch...the gov will never know.

"shall not be infringed"

Interesting isnt it?

[Gunner]

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:59:45 -0500, Ed Huntress
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:43:50 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 3/3/2013 6:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> We've allowed a really sick gun culture to infect and overwhelm our
>>> traditional one. I'm surprised that more people weren't alarmed before
>>> now about what's happened to a gun culture in which the hottest
>>> sellers are high-capacity military-style guns. And I'm a former DCM
>>> range officer, myself, as well as a former NRA-certified rifle
>>> instructor. I never imagined that marketing for one of the hottest
>>> selling guns would be "Renew Your Man Card," and that it would work
>>> like crazy.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Simple solution: In order to own guns you must be licensed, like a CCW.
>> Then you can own no guns or a bunch...the gov will never know.
>

>It would do about half the job. Then you have to figure out what to do
>about straw purchases.
>
>What would you do?


Arrest those who commit crimes. Its all you can do, without gutting
the Constitution and if thats done...the nation will explode. It well
may do just that anyways, now that the heat has been turned up.

Thank the Media for that. But..they will generally be found hanging
by the neck afterwards.

[Ed Huntress]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 02:08:25 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:59:45 -0500, Ed Huntress
><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:43:50 -0500, Tom Gardner <to...@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/3/2013 6:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>> We've allowed a really sick gun culture to infect and overwhelm our
>>>> traditional one. I'm surprised that more people weren't alarmed before
>>>> now about what's happened to a gun culture in which the hottest
>>>> sellers are high-capacity military-style guns. And I'm a former DCM
>>>> range officer, myself, as well as a former NRA-certified rifle
>>>> instructor. I never imagined that marketing for one of the hottest
>>>> selling guns would be "Renew Your Man Card," and that it would work
>>>> like crazy.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Simple solution: In order to own guns you must be licensed, like a CCW.
>>> Then you can own no guns or a bunch...the gov will never know.
>>
>>It would do about half the job. Then you have to figure out what to do
>>about straw purchases.
>>
>>What would you do?
>
>
>Arrest those who commit crimes.

How are you going to know they committed a crime, if the straw
purchaser just says, "Gee, that gun was stolen from me last year," or
"Oh, I sold that gun in a private sale. The guy said he was legal to
purchase." That is, if you can even FIND the straw purchaser, since
there is no registration.

That's how they're getting away with it. States' attorneys won't even
bring a case, because they know they don't have a chance of proving
anything.

> Its all you can do, without gutting
>the Constitution and if thats done...the nation will explode.

There's nothing in the Constitution about limiting background checks,
registering guns and requiring notification of a lost or stolen gun.
That all falls well within the Necessary and Proper clause.

> It well
>may do just that anyways, now that the heat has been turned up.

Your fuses are all wet.

>
>Thank the Media for that. But..they will generally be found hanging
>by the neck afterwards.

See, it's that kind of talk that has convinced a majority of Americans
that gun nutz have to be controlled, because they've lost their
marbles and can't be trusted.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:57:49 -0600, "Snag" <snag...@att.net> wrote:

>Ed Huntress wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:22:13 -0600, "Snag" <snag...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>> Those polls are all run by experts who know exactly how to do a
>>>> random sample, Snag. You won't get anywhere by trying to pick holes
>>>> in them, except to dig a hole of denial for yourself.
>>>
>>> As I said upthread , I neither own nor desire to own an AR-platform
>>> weapon . I also agree with <you?> whoever it was that said
>>> <basically> that this particular firearm has been demonized by the
>>> MSM . EEEEEEEeeeeeviiiiillllllllll assault weapon ! Good only for
>>> killin' innercent chirrens and mall shoppers .
>>> I'll just have to make do with Dad's 7.7 Arisaka and my 20 ga bolt
>>> shotgun . Oh , and that bow and arrow set I made from an Osage
>>> Orange tree and plum saplings .
>>
>> I think you'll be better off. As for the "demonizing," it's the result
>> of some facts on the ground, some really perverse marketing, and that
>> sickness I talk about that has infected American gun culture. Of
>> course the press has picked up on it, particularly the horrific mass
>> killings in which they have been involved. They cover the news, and
>> that's been the news.
>

> I understand all that , Ed . My point was that it is a matter of
>perception , not necessarily of fact . IF AR's were cheaper , I might have
>bought one . There are , however , other choices out there that do the same
>job equally well - or better .
> BTW , I don't own an AK either .

This perception-versus-fact business only goes so far, because
different groups are looking at different facts and drawing different
conclusions from them. As soon as we start arguing about calibers and
velocities, or about the history of military arms being adopted for
civilian use, we've lost the argument. I think that's just starting to
poke through the fog for many gun owners.

The current generation of military rifles, built for high rates of
fire with large, detachable magazines, are qualitatively different
from bolt-actions with small fixed magazines. Everyone knows that.
Many people find the militant, self-righteous attiude that's been
projected by the NRA and by some gun nutz to be an alarming reaction
to events like Sandy Hook. The people of this country can feel our
disease and they want ownership of ARs and the like quarentined.
That's what the recent polls are all about.

Meantime, gun nutz are in denial and are floundering around, looking
for ways to deflect attention. It ain't working.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 09:38:33 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 08:37:37 -0500, Ed Huntress
><hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 00:40:40 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>>>news:ndm5j89dep987qp2i...@4ax.com...

>>>
>>>>On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 22:40:31 -0600, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It seems the bolt carrier group is the hard to get part for AR-15's
>>>>>currently. I have found old Colt M16 A1 parts kits, "good to excellent"
>>>>>minus lower receiver and barrel (plus missing auto-sear or disconnector).
>>>>>Would the M16 bolt carrier group be good in an AR-15?
>>>>>
>>>>>I found some bolt carrier groups in stock for $300 but the M16 parts kits
>>>>>are available in the $500 - $600 range, seems to be a better value maybe.
>>>>>I
>>>>>read a review of one of these parts kits being assembled, they said it was
>>>>>a
>>>>>good shooter.
>>>>>
>>>>>RogerN
>>>>
>>>>Jesus. For a poodle shooter? I paid less than that for a classic Black
>>>>Beauty Double in 12 gauge, and the forcing cone was even relieved for
>>>>star crimps.
>>>>
>>>>What are you going to do with it if you ever finish it?
>>>>

>>>>--
>>>>Ed Huntress
>>>
>>>I'd probably just use it for target shooting and occasional varmints. The
>>>cartridges are kind of cute, like miniatures of my hunting rifle Winchester
>>>Magnum cartridges. We gave a lot of Coyotes around here, I can hear them
>>>when a train is in the area. If it was legal to deer hunt with rifles here
>>>I'd get a 308 version.
>>>
>>>I think I'll complete at least the "95%" receiver, I just have to drill 3
>>>holes and mill out a pocket for the trigger group. If I ever get a shop
>>>building here and get my machines moved there's a better chance of me
>>>getting the 0% lowers done. The rifles are looking pretty cheap compared to
>>>some of the optics, I'd like to have one with good daytime optics, one with
>>>night vision, and one with FLIR if they become more affordable than the one
>>>I saw for $7500.
>>>
>>>RogerN
>>
>>Wow. I hope you feel you're getting your money's worth.
>
>Someone on another site mentioned that "if it is black and you call it
>a "tactical" whatchamacallit you can charge double the price" :-)

LOL!

--
Ed Huntress