Someone got a good deal on this 25 HP compressor
Ignoramus21294
25 hp ingersoll rand compressor.
http://69.20.5.106/2/D/lots/0000001136-%5B%5B000%5D%5D___.htm?LOCALE=en_US&1256078030720&RESIZE#
I was not too eager to bid due to size and hassle involved.
Unfortunately my trailer is occupied by a milling machine in need of
adjustments.
i
Gunner Asch
A $1500 used compressor.
And yet the economy is great...right?
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno
Ignoramus21294
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:43:32 -0500, Ignoramus21294
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21294.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Someone got it for $200, outbidding me by $50.
>>
>>25 hp ingersoll rand compressor.
>>
>>http://69.20.5.106/2/D/lots/0000001136-%5B%5B000%5D%5D___.htm?LOCALE=en_US&1256078030720&RESIZE#
>>
>>I was not too eager to bid due to size and hassle involved.
>>Unfortunately my trailer is occupied by a milling machine in need of
>>adjustments.
>>
>>i
>
>
> A $1500 used compressor.
>
> And yet the economy is great...right?
The economy is not great, but it is not terrible, either.
This was a very, very fucked up auction, a lot of things were sold for
nothing. A very bad way to organize a sale.
That Dayton MIG welder, I won for $100, for example.
i
Karl Townsend
> I was not too eager to bid due to size and hassle involved.
> Unfortunately my trailer is occupied by a milling machine in need of
> adjustments.
That's not still that Wells is it?
Karl
Ignoramus21294
Yes, indeed it is.
i
Gunner Asch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.21294.invalid> wrote:
>On 2009-10-20, Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:43:32 -0500, Ignoramus21294
>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21294.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Someone got it for $200, outbidding me by $50.
>>>
>>>25 hp ingersoll rand compressor.
>>>
>>>http://69.20.5.106/2/D/lots/0000001136-%5B%5B000%5D%5D___.htm?LOCALE=en_US&1256078030720&RESIZE#
>>>
>>>I was not too eager to bid due to size and hassle involved.
>>>Unfortunately my trailer is occupied by a milling machine in need of
>>>adjustments.
>>>
>>>i
>>
>>
>> A $1500 used compressor.
>>
>> And yet the economy is great...right?
>
>The economy is not great, but it is not terrible, either.
It is out here in California. Shrug..
>
>This was a very, very fucked up auction, a lot of things were sold for
>nothing. A very bad way to organize a sale.
>
>That Dayton MIG welder, I won for $100, for example.
Maybe your economy is worse than you thought?
If I had any bucks..I could be buying all manner of machinery for little
money.
Saw a 4 yr old Fadal 16x30 CNC mill go for $5k last week.
http://www.fadal.com/products/vertical-machining-centers/vmc-3016-fx.html
Yes....$5k
Gunner
>
>i
Steve W.
Tell the folks around here how great it is.
There have been at least 15 farms selling out and NONE of them wanted to
sell out.
Auction prices have been just about 1/2 of what things are worth.
How about $15,000.00 tractors in great shape for $7,000.00 or a NEW
disc-bine for less than $3,000.00.
We even have Amish folks selling out and moving out of the area.
How about this little item. Wal~Mart usually hires a lot of temporary
help for the warehouses and stores this time of year. They are not only
NOT hiring they are laying people off because nobody has money to spend.
They are stopping construction on 63 stores and two warehouses for next
year. Plus they are planning on shutting down a few stores as well.
--
Steve W.
Ignoramus21294
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:33:36 -0500, Ignoramus21294
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21294.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2009-10-20, Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:43:32 -0500, Ignoramus21294
>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.21294.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Someone got it for $200, outbidding me by $50.
>>>>
>>>>25 hp ingersoll rand compressor.
>>>>
>>>>http://69.20.5.106/2/D/lots/0000001136-%5B%5B000%5D%5D___.htm?LOCALE=en_US&1256078030720&RESIZE#
>>>>
>>>>I was not too eager to bid due to size and hassle involved.
>>>>Unfortunately my trailer is occupied by a milling machine in need of
>>>>adjustments.
>>>>
>>>>i
>>>
>>>
>>> A $1500 used compressor.
>>>
>>> And yet the economy is great...right?
>>
>>The economy is not great, but it is not terrible, either.
>
> It is out here in California. Shrug..
>>
>>This was a very, very fucked up auction, a lot of things were sold for
>>nothing. A very bad way to organize a sale.
>>
>>That Dayton MIG welder, I won for $100, for example.
>
> Maybe your economy is worse than you thought?
Well, I will likely sell this Dayton MIG for good money. I bought it
for $100 not because the economy is bad, but because the auction was
bad.
I can likely sell it for several times my cost.
i
Michael A. Terrell
"Steve W." wrote:
>
> Tell the folks around here how great it is.
> There have been at least 15 farms selling out and NONE of them wanted to
> sell out.
>
> Auction prices have been just about 1/2 of what things are worth.
> How about $15,000.00 tractors in great shape for $7,000.00 or a NEW
> disc-bine for less than $3,000.00.
> We even have Amish folks selling out and moving out of the area.
>
> How about this little item. Wal~Mart usually hires a lot of temporary
> help for the warehouses and stores this time of year. They are not only
> NOT hiring they are laying people off because nobody has money to spend.
>
> They are stopping construction on 63 stores and two warehouses for next
> year. Plus they are planning on shutting down a few stores as well.
K-mart is closing some stores, too.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
Pete C.
Interesting, in the DFW area there is tons of activity, new stores and
shopping centers opening new construction starting, parking lots at
restaurants are always full, etc.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Lots of activity in So Cal as well. Lots of shopping centers doing
remodels, lots of cranes building government buildings etc
Only problem is...they are considering bulldozing brand new unlived in
housing tracts rather than trying to keep it up until they can even find
a renter.......those shopping centers are filled with For Lease signs
and they are trying desperately to get some tenants, government
buildings are filled with government workers who do NOT add to the
economy.....
Its all window dressing..painting the face of a corpse.
Gunner
Pete C.
Well, here those shopping centers are filling up with tenants rapidly,
one huge new development is probably 90%+ occupied. The only store that
closed is Circuit City. New office condos are being build and filled,
new apartments still being built and filled, new houses, etc. The last
week I had my boss and a couple coworkers in town for a project, so we
were eating out a lot for lunch and dinner, and pretty much every place
we went was pretty well packed. It certainly doesn't appear to be window
dressing here...
SteveB
Locations all over the country. Some absolute steals if you have any money
to spend.
http://www.rbauction.com/index.jsp
NO RESERVES
Steve
SteveB
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote
> Tell the folks around here how great it is.
> There have been at least 15 farms selling out and NONE of them wanted to
> sell out.
>
> Auction prices have been just about 1/2 of what things are worth.
> How about $15,000.00 tractors in great shape for $7,000.00 or a NEW
> disc-bine for less than $3,000.00.
> We even have Amish folks selling out and moving out of the area.
>
> How about this little item. Wal~Mart usually hires a lot of temporary
> help for the warehouses and stores this time of year. They are not only
> NOT hiring they are laying people off because nobody has money to spend.
>
> They are stopping construction on 63 stores and two warehouses for next
> year. Plus they are planning on shutting down a few stores as well.
>
> --
> Steve W.
So, how's all this hope and change working for us, folks?
SteveB
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote
> Well, here those shopping centers are filling up with tenants rapidly,
> one huge new development is probably 90%+ occupied. The only store that
> closed is Circuit City. New office condos are being build and filled,
> new apartments still being built and filled, new houses, etc. The last
> week I had my boss and a couple coworkers in town for a project, so we
> were eating out a lot for lunch and dinner, and pretty much every place
> we went was pretty well packed. It certainly doesn't appear to be window
> dressing here...
I get around. Was in five states last week. In all, I saw LOTS of empty
businesses, lots of houses for sale, even some with MAKE OFFER signs and
that was the first time I have ever seen that on a real estate sign. Lots
of what looks like absolutely new never occupied strip malls that were
virtually empty. And I mean mall after mall after mall. Lots of large
anchor stores for big shopping centers empty. Stores where I used to shop
now gone. Tons of vehicles on street corners for sale. A garage sale at
every other house. It's out there, even if it isn't in your hood yet. Just
because you don't see it, don't be misled that it ain't there. I can't see
the Statue of Liberty from my house in Utah, but I believe it when someone
writes in and says it's there.
Steve
Bruce L. Bergman
It's still soft around here - the local Taco Bell is dragging their
feet big-time doing a 'Two side walls and a slab' total remodel from
the original Mission Walk-up design to the current large dining room
plan, because while it's shut down they don't have to hire workers -
Much cheaper to put up a sign referring you to the closest store that
franchisee also owns.
It's been six months plus on a job that should have been totally
done and occupied by now. I've seen restaurants go up on bare lots in
three months, open in four - if they have all their shit together and
ready, and all the equipment staged in a warehouse.
Vacancies are down a bit - but it's all "Pop-Up" stores for the
Holidays, three to five month short-term leases. Halloween costumes
and Christmas stores, Kay-Bee Toys trying out some new ideas, etc.
--<< Bruce >>--
Pete C.
I didn't say it wasn't out there, indeed it is, but it is in specific
areas and very well correlated with the political atmosphere in the
states over the past decade and change.
Pete C.
About as well as the mindless "faith" of the previous administration. If
we can ever get back to a sane center there might be hope for change.
Ignoramus31369
>
You cannot seriously draw conclusions from these anecdotes posted on
USENET. Some people and some areas are going to do worse and some
would do better.
In the first quarter of 2009, GDP fell at the annual rate of 6.4
percent. In the second quarter, GDP fell at the annual rate of 0.7%,
which is almost imperceptible.
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm
That's a very substantial progress and I would not dismiss it just
because someone is complaining that their local store is not hiring
temporary workers.
i
SteveB
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4adf3c5d$0$12268$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Dubya don't look as dumb now, is that what I hear you say? This current guy
makes Dubya look like Einstein.
Steve
SteveB
We are perhaps in the best areas of the country. Here in Utah, we are below
the national averages in unemployment and other important areas. This is
because of diverse reasons. I know that there are pockets in the country,
but by and large, it's a fucking jungle out there, and it is festering.
Inner cities have to be becoming unlivable about now. Store ammo and food.
The locusts are coming.
Steve
Gunner Asch
wrote:
IVe heard a lot about Texas..and its actually doing ok. A shitload of
people have left California and moved there..along with company owners
and their companies.
Same with Georgia etc etc.. The Southeast with its minimal tax rates
etc etc has become the new Mexico as far as growing American industry
goes.
Monthly Review of the Texas Economy
September 2009
By Ali Anari and Mark G. Dotzour
The Texas economy lost 295,400 nonfarm jobs from August 2008 to August
2009, an annual job loss of 2.8 percent. Over the same period, the U.S.
economy lost close to 6 million jobs or 4.4 percent of its total nonfarm
jobs. The state's seasonally adjusted unemployment rate rose from 5
percent in August 2008 to 8 percent in August 2009, while the U.S. rate
rose from 6.2 percent to 9.7 percent during the same period.
http://recenter.tamu.edu/pdf/1862.pdf for the complete report.
Compare Texas http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.TX.htm
With California http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ca.htm
Grim...really really really grim.
California used to be the 7th largest economy in the world. We are now
down to something like 28th place.
Thank you Obama.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
We actually had one between here and Bakersfield. I saw it..but never
stopped in. Scissor lifts were going for less than $500..they had
literally hundreds of them that came out of the metro areas.
I really really really need a 19' scissor lift....sigh
Anyone going to the Sacramento auction want to buy me one and trade it
out for machinery..Im up for it.
Gunner
Pete C.
It's pretty clear that the worst hit states are the ones that have had
anti business climates, have forced out manufacturing businesses that
they considered too low class for their foofy image, had big housing
bubbles and put all their eggs in high tech baskets like biotech.
Ignoramus31369
> It's pretty clear that the worst hit states are the ones that have had
> anti business climates, have forced out manufacturing businesses that
> they considered too low class for their foofy image, had big housing
> bubbles and put all their eggs in high tech baskets like biotech.
Michigan and Indiana, then, would be exceptions.
i
Pete C.
Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> Compare Texas http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.TX.htm
> With California http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ca.htm
>
> Grim...really really really grim.
>
> California used to be the 7th largest economy in the world. We are now
> down to something like 28th place.
>
> Thank you Obama.
I didn't vote for Obummer, but I can assure you that California's woes
do not in any way stem from 9 months of Obummer, they have been years in
the making.
Pete C.
No, that's not at all what I say. Dubya is/was as dumb as a rock,
Obummer is considerably smarter and can actually put a coherent sentence
together, but he is also way off base with some of his ideas as well as
lacking focus.
Pete C.
Michigan has been imploding for a decade at least. Indiana, well, I
don't know much about there, so I can't say what their troubles stem
from.
Steve W.
GDP doesn't mean much when the products don't get sold or end up in the
5- $1.00 bin.
Uh that is NOT the local store, It is in the Wal~Mart news that the
company sends out to employees and investors. I also get news about them
through my stockholders packages as well (only have 800 shares in WM but
I still watch what is going on)
The local stores have also not been hiring temps. Not just Wal~Mart but
ALL of the stores. This time of year is when the malls and stores
usually fill up with the one month wonder stores. They set up before
Christmas and close down a week or two after new years. I don't see many
of them either. You usually see 4-5 places opening just for Halloween
and they are not around.
You talk about "badly run auctions" being the reason why prices were so
low. The prices are low because there is very little money changing hands.
If you are so sure the economy is great why are you selling your
equipment so cheap? Seems like a welder like that should sell for 400+
in good shape. Why are you telling others to sell for LOWER prices? If
the economy is in good shape why lower the prices?
--
Steve W.
Steve W.
Mainly by folks with the same ideas as the current bozo in chief.
Same problem with all of New England.
--
Steve W.
Ignoramus31369
I believe that GDP is based on products that are sold.
> You talk about "badly run auctions" being the reason why prices were so
> low. The prices are low because there is very little money changing hands.
There is two possibilities:
1) The prices were low ($200 for a 25 HP Ingersoll compressor) because
the economy is bad
or
2) As I said, the prices were low because the auction was fucked up.
There is an easy (for the buyer) way to determine this, which is to
look at how much the buyer sells it for.
My own opinion, based on my recent experience, the buyer would
probably get about a grand for it, quite easily.
> If you are so sure the economy is great why are you selling your
> equipment so cheap? Seems like a welder like that should sell for
> 400+ in good e able to get about a grand for itshape. Why are you
> telling others to sell for LOWER prices? If the economy is in good
> shape why lower the prices?
What I say to everyone is, I have never been good at, or interested
in, getting the top price for my stuff. I am very good at getting
stuff for very little money, that is my strong suit, not bargaining
and getting top dollar for anything.
I actually disdain people who sit on their stuff for months, hoping
for a sucker to come by and rescue them.
This welder would never be worth a grand, not even in older times.
I think that I can get more for it than I am asking here, as
well. Selling this stuff locally to RCMers is a good way to meet cool
people.
i
sta...@prolynx.com
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:44:59 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3.DO...@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> >> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:57:15 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3.DO...@snet.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >"Steve W." wrote:
>
> >> >> Ignoramus21294 wrote:
> >> >> > On 2009-10-20, Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:43:32 -0500, Ignoramus21294
> >> >> >> <ignoramus21...@NOSPAM.21294.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> >> >>> Someone got it for $200, outbidding me by $50.
>
> >> >> >>> 25 hp ingersoll rand compressor.
>
help in state government in making it a place not very attractive to
do business in. Just the CARB regulations caused a lot of places to
go out of business or find more attractive business climates. Glad I
left going on 15 years back.
Stan
Steve W.
>>> i
>> GDP doesn't mean much when the products don't get sold or end up in the
>> 5- $1.00 bin.
>
> I believe that GDP is based on products that are sold.
Nope, Based on total reported Production. It says that domestically we
produce X amount. However making 10,000 billion dollar yachts that set
idle isn't helping.
>
>> You talk about "badly run auctions" being the reason why prices were so
>> low. The prices are low because there is very little money changing hands.
>
> There is two possibilities:
>
> 1) The prices were low ($200 for a 25 HP Ingersoll compressor) because
> the economy is bad
The price an item sells for is the ONLY way to judge.
>
> or
>
> 2) As I said, the prices were low because the auction was fucked up.
>
> There is an easy (for the buyer) way to determine this, which is to
> look at how much the buyer sells it for.
You do know that at many auctions the buyers don't plan on selling the
items.
>
> My own opinion, based on my recent experience, the buyer would
> probably get about a grand for it, quite easily.
Then why didn't it sell for that at auction?
The only way you could say the auction was the problem would be if they
started all the bids at 5 bucks, then stopped selling while bidders were
still bidding.
However if they started the bids at $1,000.00 then dropped the start bid
by percentage (what usually happens) and didn't even get a bid till they
hit 50 bucks. I would say that is due to a lack of disposable income.
>
> What I say to everyone is, I have never been good at, or interested
> in, getting the top price for my stuff. I am very good at getting
> stuff for very little money, that is my strong suit, not bargaining
> and getting top dollar for anything.
>
> I actually disdain people who sit on their stuff for months, hoping
> for a sucker to come by and rescue them.
Why would they be sitting on it? If the economy is doing good people
would be willing to pay top dollar for good equipment.
>
> This welder would never be worth a grand, not even in older times.
>
> I think that I can get more for it than I am asking here, as
> well. Selling this stuff locally to RCMers is a good way to meet cool
> people.
Yep, Of course it helps if the people have extra money.
Currently I know what I have in cash, and I don't buy anything that
isn't needed. Mainly because I also see what is going to happen over the
next few years.
I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I see this country dropping into a BIG hole
with the current people at the helm.
--
Steve W.
Pete C.
"Steve W." wrote:
>
> I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I see this country dropping into a BIG hole
> with the current people at the helm.
The previous administration sent us off a cliff, and this one is
furiously digging that big hole at the bottom of the cliff for us to
fall further into. Or as I call it, it's just the Great Global Tidy Bowl
Swirl(tm).
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Wait till January...Christmas is going to be very very rough on
retailers..many do 50-75% of their total years profit at Christmas..and
thousands will go out of business.
Their employees will go on unemployment..and the people that serve those
people will have to start laying off..all the way down the line to the
trucking companies that haul the merchandise.......
It should be a very interesting spring this coming year.....3-10 million
more on unemployment/welfare..more houses going into default....
And the ammunition manufactures are working 24 hours a day making ammo
that is still hard as hell to buy.
Its going to be a very very good year for undertakers
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>
Shrug...when all the Leftwingers have been bulldozed into mass
graves..there will be plenty of work for everyone else.
Its coming
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>
Blink blink...you must vote Democrap if you can post that with a
straight face.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>
Of course they have. Obama simply pushed them off the ledge.
And its still a long long way to the bottom.
Ignoramus31369
>>>> i
>>> GDP doesn't mean much when the products don't get sold or end up in the
>>> 5- $1.00 bin.
>>
>> I believe that GDP is based on products that are sold.
>
> Nope, Based on total reported Production. It says that domestically we
> produce X amount. However making 10,000 billion dollar yachts that set
> idle isn't helping.
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdp
``... it is equal to the total expenditures for all final goods and services
produced within the country in a stipulated period of time (usually a
365-day year). ''
In other words, it is based on SOLD goods.
>>
>>> You talk about "badly run auctions" being the reason why prices were so
>>> low. The prices are low because there is very little money changing hands.
>>
>> There is two possibilities:
>>
>> 1) The prices were low ($200 for a 25 HP Ingersoll compressor) because
>> the economy is bad
>
> The price an item sells for is the ONLY way to judge.
>
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2) As I said, the prices were low because the auction was fucked up.
>>
>> There is an easy (for the buyer) way to determine this, which is to
>> look at how much the buyer sells it for.
>
> You do know that at many auctions the buyers don't plan on selling the
> items.
>
>>
>> My own opinion, based on my recent experience, the buyer would
>> probably get about a grand for it, quite easily.
>
> Then why didn't it sell for that at auction?
Because it was a fucked up auction.
> The only way you could say the auction was the problem would be if they
> started all the bids at 5 bucks, then stopped selling while bidders were
> still bidding.
Keep in mind that it was not ebay, it was a liquidation auction. The
auction and auctioneer were in Pennsylvania. Half of the goods,
though, were in Illinois, where I reside.
There were only approximately 3 bidders in that auction who bid on
Illinois stuff. Me, some printing equipment dealer, guy from
Pennsylvania, and another Russian with userid "udacha". (my
interpretation)
The Pennsylvania guy was mostly interested in printing equipment, and
I was not because it is out of my area of competence. So, it was me
bidding against "udacha". udacha got all compressors, rotary screw and
reciprocating, I got some other things.
> However if they started the bids at $1,000.00 then dropped the start
> bid by percentage (what usually happens) and didn't even get a bid
> till they hit 50 bucks. I would say that is due to a lack of
> disposable income.
I am fairly certain that all buyers in this auction were interested in
resale and were not the end users.
>>
>> What I say to everyone is, I have never been good at, or interested
>> in, getting the top price for my stuff. I am very good at getting
>> stuff for very little money, that is my strong suit, not bargaining
>> and getting top dollar for anything.
>>
>> I actually disdain people who sit on their stuff for months, hoping
>> for a sucker to come by and rescue them.
>
> Why would they be sitting on it? If the economy is doing good people
> would be willing to pay top dollar for good equipment.
We have a loser on our local Craigslist that tries to sell an old
hydraulic jack for $69. This is more than this jack is worth new from
Sears. And yet he is there, asking for $69 and saying "moving, must
sell". He has been doing this for 1.5 years.
This is the kind of people I am talking about.
>>
>> This welder would never be worth a grand, not even in older times.
>>
>> I think that I can get more for it than I am asking here, as
>> well. Selling this stuff locally to RCMers is a good way to meet cool
>> people.
>
> Yep, Of course it helps if the people have extra money. Currently I
> know what I have in cash, and I don't buy anything that isn't
> needed. Mainly because I also see what is going to happen over the
> next few years.
>
> I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I see this country dropping into a BIG hole
> with the current people at the helm.
You may also lose that cash due to inflation. Be careful.
The time to be fearful is when others are greedy, and the time to be
greedy is when others are fearful. Right now people (like you) are
fearful, avoid buying stuff, houses, etc, and this presents a good
opportunity to those who have cash.
i
Ignoramus31369
I try to approach life as an analyst, as opposed to a partisan.
Sometimes I succeed at that, and sometimes I do not.
My analyst side of the brain describes current events as "continued
destruction of imaginary wealth". When I mean by this is that the
trade deficit and collective borrowing by the US affected prices, as
well as incomes, in a way that made us think that we are wealthier
than we are.
However, in the long run, for a nation, wealth is defined by its
productive and income generating capacity, and not by asset
prices. The capacity lagged this increae in perceived wealth.
Now we are descending back to the reality, which is that we never were
as wealthy as we thought in 2007.
While the perceived wealth stemming from asset prices has evaporated
in year 2008, there may be more to this wealth destruction that would
eliminate the ongoing deficits. Its effect will be on exchange rate of
the dollar and prices of imported goods.
That would, hopefully, being us back to reality and would be a
healthful, although moderately painful, adjustment.
i
Ignoramus31369
> Shrug...when all the Leftwingers have been bulldozed into mass
> graves..there will be plenty of work for everyone else.
>
> Its coming
I thought you valued "human life"?
i
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>
Nothing like a good "fabricated" war to provide focus.
Nothing like having your country running scared shitless about
terrorism to get their focus off how badly you are running a country.
And nothing like stepping into a raging shitstorm to make governing a
country a virtual minefeild.
Don't matter how smart a man is, or how focused, getting America back
on it's feet is NOT going to be an overnight job for ANYONE. With any
luck you are "bouncing off the bottom" right now, and the slow process
of "refloating the barge" has begun.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Yup - you don't make money SELLING a product right - you make money
BUYING it right.
As far as value is concerned, something is worth exactly what the
highest bidder is willing to pay for it on a given day - not a penny
more, or a penny less.
The auction may not have been properly advertized/promoted - The
auctioneer may not have a good reputation (nobody wants to bother
sitting through one of his sales) , there may be too many sales
liquidating the same type of equipment in the area, or the majority of
the equipment might not have been of interest to buyers in the area.
If a sale is made up mostly of stuff there is no local market for,
most of what there IS a market for will also go cheap.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
If you, and everyone who believes as you do, keep all your money in
your jeans, it WILL go down the tube.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>
"It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom"
Keep on digging and the bottom gets softer.
Pete C.
There was nothing fabricated about it. The most significant fault of the
previous administrations was choosing to focus their sales pitch the
wrong reason for the war.
> Nothing like having your country running scared shitless about
> terrorism to get their focus off how badly you are running a country.
I've yet to see anyone in the US "running scared shitless" about
terrorism. I see lefty loonies running around whining about the war and
making totally baseless claims like "it's all about oil", and I see
predominantly center-right folks in the military going off and actually
doing something about the terrorists, despite all the obstacles the
lefties try to erect.
>
> And nothing like stepping into a raging shitstorm to make governing a
> country a virtual minefeild.
Well, Obummer certainly should have known what he was getting into,
after all it had been well known when he started running, quite a bit
different from the previous administration having 9/11 without any
recent warning after being in office only 8 months.
>
> Don't matter how smart a man is, or how focused, getting America back
> on it's feet is NOT going to be an overnight job for ANYONE. With any
> luck you are "bouncing off the bottom" right now, and the slow process
> of "refloating the barge" has begun.
This last bit is the only part you are correct on. Economic cycles have
duration's well beyond a 4yr term.
Pete C.
You have to do something fast with all the bodies from the pandemic,
however I'd expect the mix to be pretty balanced with left wingers (PYVs
who believe vaccines cause autism) and right wingers (religious nuts
afraid of vaccines), and relatively few of the sane vaccinated centrist
folks. It might restore some sanity to the US.
Ignoramus31369
>>I actually disdain people who sit on their stuff for months, hoping
>>for a sucker to come by and rescue them.
>>
>>This welder would never be worth a grand, not even in older times.
> Yup - you don't make money SELLING a product right - you make money
> BUYING it right.
Exactly my thinking. Well put.
> As far as value is concerned, something is worth exactly what the
> highest bidder is willing to pay for it on a given day - not a penny
> more, or a penny less.
I would not entirely agree with that.
Price is what you pay, value is what you get. Some things may be 1)
worth more to me than to other bidders or 2) Worth more to people who
are unable to bid.
> The auction may not have been properly advertized/promoted - The
> auctioneer may not have a good reputation (nobody wants to bother
> sitting through one of his sales) , there may be too many sales
> liquidating the same type of equipment in the area, or the majority of
> the equipment might not have been of interest to buyers in the area.
Exactly
> If a sale is made up mostly of stuff there is no local market for,
> most of what there IS a market for will also go cheap.
I am also a sucker for welders and certain other things. I can hardly
pass them by, plus I know how to test them, I like to play with them
etc. What also help is that for welders beyond the obvious, people do
not even know what they do etc.
i
Pete C.
The bottom getting softer doesn't help if you're at terminal velocity.
Digging deeper just provides more time to inflate a parachute if you can
figure out how to do it. I'm not convinced anyone knows where the
rip-cord is.
Pete C.
I'm doing my part to prop up what's left of the economy. I bought a new
Ford truck in May, I'm heading off for a two week vacation in Hawaii
Friday, I bought a new US manufactured gun last week, and I continue to
do my normal activities.
Ignoramus31369
> Ford truck in May, I'm heading off for a two week vacation in Hawaii
> Friday, I bought a new US manufactured gun last week, and I continue to
> do my normal activities.
Make sure not to take that gun to Hawaii.
I have not done anything that spectacular, but I put almost 100% of my
money in stocks last March. Now I have reduced that percentage a
little.
i
Pete C.
Ignoramus31369 wrote:
>
> On 2009-10-21, Pete C. <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
> > I'm doing my part to prop up what's left of the economy. I bought a new
> > Ford truck in May, I'm heading off for a two week vacation in Hawaii
> > Friday, I bought a new US manufactured gun last week, and I continue to
> > do my normal activities.
>
> Make sure not to take that gun to Hawaii.
My luggage is already overloaded with SCUBA gear.
>
> I have not done anything that spectacular, but I put almost 100% of my
> money in stocks last March. Now I have reduced that percentage a
> little.
>
> i
Your buying/selling used equipment helps the economy at some level, and
the new tooling you buy for the machines you keep helps further.
pyotr filipivich
or about Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:10:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>>>
>>> Its all window dressing..painting the face of a corpse.
>>
>>one huge new development is probably 90%+ occupied. The only store that
>>closed is Circuit City. New office condos are being build and filled,
>>new apartments still being built and filled, new houses, etc. The last
>>week I had my boss and a couple coworkers in town for a project, so we
>>were eating out a lot for lunch and dinner, and pretty much every place
>>we went was pretty well packed. It certainly doesn't appear to be window
>>dressing here...
>
>
>people have left California and moved there..along with company owners
>and their companies.
Not to mention Doctors. Texas put a cap on "pain and suffering"
awards, and the doctors are moving.
>Same with Georgia etc etc.. The Southeast with its minimal tax rates
>etc etc has become the new Mexico as far as growing American industry
>goes.
If only I could stand the humidity ...
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
pyotr filipivich
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>
>>> Compare Texas http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.TX.htm
>>> With California http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ca.htm
>>>
>>> Grim...really really really grim.
>>>
>>> California used to be the 7th largest economy in the world. We are now
>>> down to something like 28th place.
>>>
>>> Thank you Obama.
>>
>>I didn't vote for Obummer, but I can assure you that California's woes
>>do not in any way stem from 9 months of Obummer, they have been years in
>>the making.
>
>
>Of course they have. Obama simply pushed them off the ledge.
>
>And its still a long long way to the bottom.
When the "disaffected youths" decided to fly some Aircraft into
buildings in an effort at "Manmade Disturbances", one friend of mine
took a look at the economy and declared bankruptcy. Why wait for the
layoff? Another, took a look at his burn rate, at how much venture
capital he had, and the possibility of things picking back up to just
'bad' and closed the doors on his startup. No sense hoping for a turn
around in that climate.
I'm sure there were hundreds of businesses in Sept of '08 who said
"things are tight, but we may make it.." who realized what a Democrat
party lock on the White House, and Congress meant for business and the
economy and said "That's it, we're done, we're not going to see things
turn around before the money runs out."
Pete C.
pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> on
> or about Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:10:56 -0700 did write/type or cause to
> appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
> >
> >>>
> >>> Its all window dressing..painting the face of a corpse.
> >>
> >>Well, here those shopping centers are filling up with tenants rapidly,
> >>one huge new development is probably 90%+ occupied. The only store that
> >>closed is Circuit City. New office condos are being build and filled,
> >>new apartments still being built and filled, new houses, etc. The last
> >>week I had my boss and a couple coworkers in town for a project, so we
> >>were eating out a lot for lunch and dinner, and pretty much every place
> >>we went was pretty well packed. It certainly doesn't appear to be window
> >>dressing here...
> >
> >
> >IVe heard a lot about Texas..and its actually doing ok. A shitload of
> >people have left California and moved there..along with company owners
> >and their companies.
>
> Not to mention Doctors. Texas put a cap on "pain and suffering"
> awards, and the doctors are moving.
Yes, several big new medical centers just built or under construction to
open soon around here.
>
> >Same with Georgia etc etc.. The Southeast with its minimal tax rates
> >etc etc has become the new Mexico as far as growing American industry
> >goes.
>
> If only I could stand the humidity ...
The humidity is fine in the DFW area, nothing like hotlanta. Good
weather, good economy, low cost of living, no state income tax, etc.
SteveB
Let me say this about that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, Dubya was stupid, and
I voted for the man. The current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is
not only a stupid Nigger, he is actually dangerous, and is being controlled
from outside forces. You can not in your most lucid moments say that Obama
is coming up with all this in his own mind. His brain is not that large.
He cannot even remember a two minute speech. He is a puppet. It is the
puppetmasters who need to be watched.
I guess I can expect repercussions for this.
Newton Smith
SteveB
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:82tud5p0slk30rjrb...@4ax.com...
I have an idea. Let's raise taxes. Yeah, that ought to do it.
Make it so, Number Two.
SteveB
> previous administrations was choosing to focus their sales pitch the
> wrong reason for the war.
EARTH TO PETE: It was all about keeping $9 dollar a gallon gas farther into
the future. But, now, it's coming. $82 today.
Steve
SteveB
"Ignoramus31369" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.31369.invalid> wrote in message
news:ho2dnTk7dZns6ULX...@giganews.com...
For just me, some people are not entitled to the oxygen they consume.
And don't get me started on the CO2 they emit.
Steve
Pete C.
Nope, try again.
SteveB
"Ignoramus31369" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.31369.invalid> wrote in message
> On 2009-10-21, SteveB <old...@depends.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote
>>
>>> Tell the folks around here how great it is.
>>> There have been at least 15 farms selling out and NONE of them wanted to
>>> sell out.
>>>
>>> Auction prices have been just about 1/2 of what things are worth.
>>> How about $15,000.00 tractors in great shape for $7,000.00 or a NEW
>>> disc-bine for less than $3,000.00.
>>> We even have Amish folks selling out and moving out of the area.
>>>
>>> How about this little item. Wal~Mart usually hires a lot of temporary
>>> help for the warehouses and stores this time of year. They are not only
>>> NOT hiring they are laying people off because nobody has money to spend.
>>>
>>> They are stopping construction on 63 stores and two warehouses for next
>>> year. Plus they are planning on shutting down a few stores as well.
>>
>>
>
> USENET. Some people and some areas are going to do worse and some
> would do better.
>
> In the first quarter of 2009, GDP fell at the annual rate of 6.4
> percent. In the second quarter, GDP fell at the annual rate of 0.7%,
> which is almost imperceptible.
>
> http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm
>
> That's a very substantial progress and I would not dismiss it just
> because someone is complaining that their local store is not hiring
> temporary workers.
>
> i
Iggy, I know people, and I know you. Everyone is not as motivated as you;
you see opportunity where others see despair. You will get out and work.
We need more Iggys in this world.
Steve
SteveB
I would welcome a pandemic with a 60% fatality rate right now.
SteveB
> You talk about "badly run auctions" being the reason why prices were so
> low. The prices are low because there is very little money changing hands.
Iggy, it's simple math. An auction takes a vig (%) on the sale. What
reason would they have to run it badly? At my local pawn shop, on any given
day, I can walk in and offer half of the price they want, and they will take
it. We've been scoring some terrific deals lately, merely because we have
some cash. I wish I could get these derelicts directly from the street, and
what I pay would be cut in half again.
People are pawning everything, but few have the cash to buy.
Steve
SteveB
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote
> I'm doing my part to prop up what's left of the economy. I bought a new
> Ford truck in May, I'm heading off for a two week vacation in Hawaii
> Friday, I bought a new US manufactured gun last week, and I continue to
> do my normal activities.
Kauai is awesome. We'll be going in December for Christmas, as usual.
Steve
SteveB
>> BUYING it right.
When I was in Scouting, one of the boy's fathers was in the business of
buying out bankrupt stock. He said the trick was to have it sold before you
ever bought it. Possible on a large % of the goods once you learned the
business, and the rest you tried to break even on.
steve
SteveB
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote
>
> If a sale is made up mostly of stuff there is no local market for,
> most of what there IS a market for will also go cheap.
Ritchie Brothers Auctions in Las Vegas is fraught with $10,000 machines
going for $3-$4k.
Steve
SteveB
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote
> It should be a very interesting spring this coming year.....3-10 million
> more on unemployment/welfare..more houses going into default....
>
> And the ammunition manufactures are working 24 hours a day making ammo
> that is still hard as hell to buy.
>
> Its going to be a very very good year for undertakers
>
> Gunner
The shit is approaching the proverbial fan.............................
Ignoramus31369
Steve... I appreciate it... Looks like you have done your own share of
hard work... I find it that I become lazier as I get older. I do not
feel older, ye, but I am lazier. Sometimes I feel like I should not
work as much, and yet somehow work finds me...
i
Ignoramus31369
This is really am amazing time to equip a shop for next to nothing.
This is also a great time to buy and sell used equipment. What cost
$500 and could sell for $1000, now costs $300 and sells for $600, but
there are many more possibilities.
i
Steve W.
> On 2009-10-21, Steve W. <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus31369 wrote:
>>>>> i
>>>> GDP doesn't mean much when the products don't get sold or end up in the
>>>> 5- $1.00 bin.
>>> I believe that GDP is based on products that are sold.
>> Nope, Based on total reported Production. It says that domestically we
>> produce X amount. However making 10,000 billion dollar yachts that set
>> idle isn't helping.
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdp
>
> ``... it is equal to the total expenditures for all final goods and services
> produced within the country in a stipulated period of time (usually a
> 365-day year). ''
>
> In other words, it is based on SOLD goods.
Read what is written. GDP is based upon the total expenditures for all
final goods and services PRODUCED within the country.
IE: GDP is based off what it costs the companies in wages, insurance,
monetary outlay, and materials to produce the items. Has NOTHING to do
with sales. That is why it is a poor indicator of the economy. Take a
look at the auto industry to see what happens if you produce more than
you sell.
Now if you wanted to look at the Consumer Expenditure Survey, which IS
based on goods sold as an indicator then fine. Plus you can look at the
Consumer Spending Index.
>
>>>> You talk about "badly run auctions" being the reason why prices were so
>>>> low. The prices are low because there is very little money changing hands.
>>> There is two possibilities:
>>>
>>> 1) The prices were low ($200 for a 25 HP Ingersoll compressor) because
>>> the economy is bad
>> The price an item sells for is the ONLY way to judge.
>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> 2) As I said, the prices were low because the auction was fucked up.
>>>
>>> There is an easy (for the buyer) way to determine this, which is to
>>> look at how much the buyer sells it for.
>> You do know that at many auctions the buyers don't plan on selling the
>> items.
>>
>>> My own opinion, based on my recent experience, the buyer would
>>> probably get about a grand for it, quite easily.
>> Then why didn't it sell for that at auction?
>
> Because it was a fucked up auction.
>
>> The only way you could say the auction was the problem would be if they
>> started all the bids at 5 bucks, then stopped selling while bidders were
>> still bidding.
>
> Keep in mind that it was not ebay, it was a liquidation auction. The
> auction and auctioneer were in Pennsylvania. Half of the goods,
> though, were in Illinois, where I reside.
I have seen a few auctions like that. Probably the auctioneer was told
by the creditors, we don't care what you get for this stuff, just
dispose of it.
>
> There were only approximately 3 bidders in that auction who bid on
> Illinois stuff. Me, some printing equipment dealer, guy from
> Pennsylvania, and another Russian with userid "udacha". (my
> interpretation)
>
> The Pennsylvania guy was mostly interested in printing equipment, and
> I was not because it is out of my area of competence. So, it was me
> bidding against "udacha". udacha got all compressors, rotary screw and
> reciprocating, I got some other things.
>
>> However if they started the bids at $1,000.00 then dropped the start
>> bid by percentage (what usually happens) and didn't even get a bid
>> till they hit 50 bucks. I would say that is due to a lack of
>> disposable income.
>
> I am fairly certain that all buyers in this auction were interested in
> resale and were not the end users.
>
>>> What I say to everyone is, I have never been good at, or interested
>>> in, getting the top price for my stuff. I am very good at getting
>>> stuff for very little money, that is my strong suit, not bargaining
>>> and getting top dollar for anything.
>>>
>>> I actually disdain people who sit on their stuff for months, hoping
>>> for a sucker to come by and rescue them.
>> Why would they be sitting on it? If the economy is doing good people
>> would be willing to pay top dollar for good equipment.
>
> We have a loser on our local Craigslist that tries to sell an old
> hydraulic jack for $69. This is more than this jack is worth new from
> Sears. And yet he is there, asking for $69 and saying "moving, must
> sell". He has been doing this for 1.5 years.
>
> This is the kind of people I am talking about.
That isn't a "loser" it is someone who likely paid that much for a GOOD
jack prior to all the import junk being brought in. I have 4 jacks in
the shop that are worth about $400.00 each. You can buy ones today that
LOOK like them for $99.99 Mine are US made and high quality, using parts
that you can still get. The others are chinese made crap that can almost
lift what they are rated at.
>
>
>>> This welder would never be worth a grand, not even in older times.
>>>
>>> I think that I can get more for it than I am asking here, as
>>> well. Selling this stuff locally to RCMers is a good way to meet cool
>>> people.
>> Yep, Of course it helps if the people have extra money. Currently I
>> know what I have in cash, and I don't buy anything that isn't
>> needed. Mainly because I also see what is going to happen over the
>> next few years.
>>
>> I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I see this country dropping into a BIG hole
>> with the current people at the helm.
>
> You may also lose that cash due to inflation. Be careful.
Not concerned about it because it isn't in dollars, it's in EXPENSIVE
yellow metal, and I ain't talking about brass.....
>
> The time to be fearful is when others are greedy, and the time to be
> greedy is when others are fearful. Right now people (like you) are
> fearful, avoid buying stuff, houses, etc, and this presents a good
> opportunity to those who have cash.
Not for where I'm sitting. There are at least 25 empty homes and farms
locally. Nobody wants them because the land is overpriced for the area
and the taxes in NY are ridiculous.
>
> i
--
Steve W.
Steve W.
>
>
> If you, and everyone who believes as you do, keep all your money in
> your jeans, it WILL go down the tube.
So you figure that because I don't go out and spend money to buy crap I
don't need just for the sake of having it, I'm the problem.
Not the folks who told the banks to loan money to people who they KNEW
couldn't pay it back, Or the ones who sold treasuries short term so it
looked like there was a surplus, when in fact they hadn't started paying
those off at high interest, or maybe the current crop of folks who have
decided to spend money that they won't have for 20+ years.
How about this. I'll go down to the local dealer and get a nice new
Cadillac. However I will pay for it with an unsecured IOU from my neighbor.
I figure that if the Gov. can do this it should be fine for anyone else.
--
Steve W.
Ignoramus31369
> Ignoramus31369 wrote:
>> On 2009-10-21, Steve W. <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Ignoramus31369 wrote:
>>>>>> i
>>>>> GDP doesn't mean much when the products don't get sold or end up in the
>>>>> 5- $1.00 bin.
>>>> I believe that GDP is based on products that are sold.
>>> Nope, Based on total reported Production. It says that domestically we
>>> produce X amount. However making 10,000 billion dollar yachts that set
>>> idle isn't helping.
>>
>> Wrong.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdp
>>
>> ``... it is equal to the total expenditures for all final goods and services
>> produced within the country in a stipulated period of time (usually a
>> 365-day year). ''
>>
>> In other words, it is based on SOLD goods.
>
> Read what is written. GDP is based upon the total expenditures for all
> final goods and services PRODUCED within the country.
Expenditures means SOLD goods.
> IE: GDP is based off what it costs the companies in wages, insurance,
> monetary outlay, and materials to produce the items. Has NOTHING to do
> with sales. That is why it is a poor indicator of the economy. Take a
> look at the auto industry to see what happens if you produce more than
> you sell.
>
> Now if you wanted to look at the Consumer Expenditure Survey, which IS
> based on goods sold as an indicator then fine. Plus you can look at the
> Consumer Spending Index.
Consumer is a subset of GDP.
Often, nobody cares, especially not the auctioneer.
>> We have a loser on our local Craigslist that tries to sell an old
>> hydraulic jack for $69. This is more than this jack is worth new from
>> Sears. And yet he is there, asking for $69 and saying "moving, must
>> sell". He has been doing this for 1.5 years.
>>
>> This is the kind of people I am talking about.
>
> That isn't a "loser" it is someone who likely paid that much for a GOOD
> jack prior to all the import junk being brought in. I have 4 jacks in
> the shop that are worth about $400.00 each. You can buy ones today that
> LOOK like them for $99.99 Mine are US made and high quality, using parts
> that you can still get. The others are chinese made crap that can almost
> lift what they are rated at.
Not the case here.
>>
>>
>>>> This welder would never be worth a grand, not even in older times.
>>>>
>>>> I think that I can get more for it than I am asking here, as
>>>> well. Selling this stuff locally to RCMers is a good way to meet cool
>>>> people.
>>> Yep, Of course it helps if the people have extra money. Currently I
>>> know what I have in cash, and I don't buy anything that isn't
>>> needed. Mainly because I also see what is going to happen over the
>>> next few years.
>>>
>>> I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I see this country dropping into a BIG hole
>>> with the current people at the helm.
>>
>> You may also lose that cash due to inflation. Be careful.
>
> Not concerned about it because it isn't in dollars, it's in EXPENSIVE
> yellow metal, and I ain't talking about brass.....
Well, you said "in cash", so I thought it was in cash.
As for gold, I am personally not buying gold for several reasons.
One is that it produces zero income.
Another reason is that no one knows what it should be worth (see above).
One more reason is that it has become very popular and much discussed,
which, to me, means that the train likely left the station and is not
worth chasing. By nature, I am a contrarian. I did own silver, at some
point, so I am not averse to any precious metals, but in this instance
I do not want to buy gold.
Gold rose 3-4 times (depending on the period), and much of the
inflation protection supposed to be in gold, may have been exercised
here.
I am very aware that some very smart people who have good judgment
(such as David Einhorn or John Paulson) are bullish on gold. This is
not enough to convince me and I will leave gold to other people.
There are other means of protecting oneself from inflation that are
less currently popular and that I am exploring.
>>
>> The time to be fearful is when others are greedy, and the time to be
>> greedy is when others are fearful. Right now people (like you) are
>> fearful, avoid buying stuff, houses, etc, and this presents a good
>> opportunity to those who have cash.
>
> Not for where I'm sitting. There are at least 25 empty homes and farms
> locally. Nobody wants them because the land is overpriced for the area
> and the taxes in NY are ridiculous.
If I was looking for land, I would go to each seller and discuss
buying land at some ridiculously low price. One might accept. How do
you know that it is overpriced, just curious. I was thinking about
buying some land.
i
Ed Huntress
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hbofc2$6kj$1...@aioe.org...
That's sort of half right, Steve, and somewhat misleading.
The government counts GDP by production, as you say. Non-government
economists use several different measures: one is sales, another is value of
final production, and a third is value-added at all the stages of
production. All three are usually equivalent.
Last fall we had an extraordinary situation in which the measures of the
three got out of whack, more than at any time in recent history. Sales fell
off a cliff, so fast that production couldn't slow down to adjust. The
official decline in GDP was 3.8%. But the real decline in sales would
indicate a falloff in GDP of between 5% and 6%.
The difference was an extraordinary inventory pileup. But that difference --
around, say, 1.7% -- is as big as it gets. Inventory ups and downs tend to
lag sales by a small amount but the percentage of GDP that is "non-normal"
inventory (in other words, more than the usual inventory that business keeps
on hand in a normal economy) never grows to more than a percent or so of
total GDP, and that only happens when the overall ups and downs are swinging
pretty wildly. Producers are pretty good these days at cutting back
production to meet market demand.
GDP indeed is often a poor indicator of the economy, but unsold inventories
are not the reason, except in rare and extraordinary circumstances like we
had late last year. Inventories are now close to normal, relative to market
demand. And any unsold inventory that's still hanging around had its effect
on the GDP late last year. Now, pile-up inventory carried over neither adds
to nor subtracts from GDP. In other words, it no longer affects the GDP
number one way or the other. When excessive inventory gets sold down, it
will be reflected in a sales-based GDP number that is slightly higher than
the production-based number. But only slightly.
>
> Now if you wanted to look at the Consumer Expenditure Survey, which IS
> based on goods sold as an indicator then fine. Plus you can look at the
> Consumer Spending Index.
They have their problems, too, which is why they're used only for limited
purposes.
--
Ed Huntress
SteveB
"Ignoramus31369" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.31369.invalid> wrote in message
Only to people like you. Optimists who are open to possibilities.
Who was it who said (paraphrased) Life is an endless number of permutations
to a person who is willing to take chances. ..............?
Steve
Steve W.
>>>>
>>>> I REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I see this country dropping into a BIG hole
>>>> with the current people at the helm.
>>> You may also lose that cash due to inflation. Be careful.
>> Not concerned about it because it isn't in dollars, it's in EXPENSIVE
>> yellow metal, and I ain't talking about brass.....
>
> Well, you said "in cash", so I thought it was in cash.
>
> As for gold, I am personally not buying gold for several reasons.
>
> One is that it produces zero income.
>
> Another reason is that no one knows what it should be worth (see above).
>
> One more reason is that it has become very popular and much discussed,
> which, to me, means that the train likely left the station and is not
> worth chasing. By nature, I am a contrarian. I did own silver, at some
> point, so I am not averse to any precious metals, but in this instance
> I do not want to buy gold.
>
> Gold rose 3-4 times (depending on the period), and much of the
> inflation protection supposed to be in gold, may have been exercised
> here.
Gold has bounced around a LOT, the thing is that you have to look at
global pricing and supply. Then look for the curve and try to sell when
the prices peak. OR if your using it as long term investment then you
look for the low end and buy. I'm not looking at it WRT inflation as
much as a solid investment.
In my case I have bought pretty close to the lows across the board.
Stock wise I buy established for the most part. I do hit the occasional
start-up, but those can be a real PIA if your not watching.
>
> I am very aware that some very smart people who have good judgment
> (such as David Einhorn or John Paulson) are bullish on gold. This is
> not enough to convince me and I will leave gold to other people.
>
> There are other means of protecting oneself from inflation that are
> less currently popular and that I am exploring.
>
>
>>> The time to be fearful is when others are greedy, and the time to be
>>> greedy is when others are fearful. Right now people (like you) are
>>> fearful, avoid buying stuff, houses, etc, and this presents a good
>>> opportunity to those who have cash.
>> Not for where I'm sitting. There are at least 25 empty homes and farms
>> locally. Nobody wants them because the land is overpriced for the area
>> and the taxes in NY are ridiculous.
>
> If I was looking for land, I would go to each seller and discuss
> buying land at some ridiculously low price. One might accept. How do
> you know that it is overpriced, just curious. I was thinking about
> buying some land.
Unimproved land with NO utility access is on the market locally for
$4,500 an acre.
There is a farm that isn't priced to bad but it is still at 2,200 an
acre. The barn is in OK shape but the land itself hasn't been taken care of.
I may actually grab that, break it up some and sell the barn and house
for the timbers. Then put a smaller stick built on the lower section for
myself and the wife and rent the upper to a local large acreage farm.
Not really that interested right now. With the bunch we have in Albany
now the tax situation is only going to get worse.
>
> i
SteveB
"Ignoramus31369" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.31369.invalid> wrote in message
I have a friend who is a financial expert. He does a radio talk show in the
Western US on finances. He is highly regarded in this field. One time when
we were visiting them, we discussed gold. He pointed out some things that I
never thought of. One is the security of the thing. How do you securely
protect a million dollars in gold when people know you have it? If you go
to the local grocery store, how does the clerk cut out the gold for your
purchase from a block of gold? Who is to guarantee the purity of the gold?
It is easily adulterated. If gold is the standard of trade, then everyone
who goes to the grocery store or business would be a walking patsy for
robbers. There is no ID on gold, and what is can be obliterated easily. If
gold is made into small denominations, who is to guarantee the weight and
purity of those smaller portions? Things to think about.
Steve
Gunner Asch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.31369.invalid> wrote:
>On 2009-10-21, Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>> Shrug...when all the Leftwingers have been bulldozed into mass
>> graves..there will be plenty of work for everyone else.
>>
>> Its coming
>
>I thought you valued "human life"?
>
>i
I do. Leftists arent human
Gunner
"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""
Steve W.
>
> I have a friend who is a financial expert. He does a radio talk show in the
> Western US on finances. He is highly regarded in this field. One time when
> we were visiting them, we discussed gold. He pointed out some things that I
> never thought of. One is the security of the thing. How do you securely
> protect a million dollars in gold when people know you have it? If you go
> to the local grocery store, how does the clerk cut out the gold for your
> purchase from a block of gold? Who is to guarantee the purity of the gold?
> It is easily adulterated. If gold is the standard of trade, then everyone
> who goes to the grocery store or business would be a walking patsy for
> robbers. There is no ID on gold, and what is can be obliterated easily. If
> gold is made into small denominations, who is to guarantee the weight and
> purity of those smaller portions? Things to think about.
>
> Steve
>
>
All valid points, However many of them have been taken care of. There
are several ways to test for purity, Many of which are easily done using
simple chemicals.
Security wise gold doesn't bother me as much as half of the items you
probably carry daily. Have a debit / credit card. More than one? With
those and about 10 minutes I can have whatever your limits are on each.
If I get your drivers license I can also do more damage.
As for paying with gold. Currently you cannot pay directly in gold for
anything in the US. It is strictly a commodity to buy/sell. In other
countries however you can use gold.
Security isn't all that hard, really. ID wise there are MANY ways that
cannot be obliterated. The old stamp the ingot crap works in the movies,
not in reality.
As far as how to use it. The likely process would be that you would take
an ounce to a business and trade it for an agreed amount of credit.
Repeat when you run out of credit. Basically just like a credit card,
except it would actually be secured.
--
Steve W.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.31369.invalid> wrote:
>If I was looking for land, I would go to each seller and discuss
>buying land at some ridiculously low price. One might accept. How do
>you know that it is overpriced, just curious. I was thinking about
>buying some land.
In my area, most sellers are still dreaming that their land is worth
bubble prices. A lot of those were insane, even though our bubble
wasn't nearly as bad as in CA etc. So these folks think that say, 20%
off is some great bargain. Some of them will wait it out, confusing
wishful thinking with strategy. Others will take their lumps, some
because they can afford to, and others because they can't afford not
to. Either way, there are sure to be bargains for those who take the
time to shop. Traditionally though, the best reason to buy land is if
you intend to live on it in the not too distant future. I view the
land market a lot like the stock market - a lot of research required.
I can think of a couple of cases where land purchases for profit went
sour, not because the price was too high, but because tax increases or
school bonds ate up the profit. In one area near me, some 40 acre
parcels (with homes) got whacked with unexpected bills for as much as
$1500 a year to pay for a fire district when it changed from volunteer
to full-time.
Wayne
jw
> Ignoramus21294 wrote:
> > On 2009-10-20, Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:43:32 -0500, Ignoramus21294
> >> <ignoramus21...@NOSPAM.21294.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>> Someone got it for $200, outbidding me by $50.
>
> >>> 25 hp ingersoll rand compressor.
>
> >>>http://69.20.5.106/2/D/lots/0000001136-%5B%5B000%5D%5D___.htm?LOCALE=...
>
> >>> I was not too eager to bid due to size and hassle involved.
> >>> Unfortunately my trailer is occupied by a milling machine in need of
> >>> adjustments.
>
> >>> i
>
> >> A $1500 used compressor.
>
> >> And yet the economy is great...right?
>
> > The economy is not great, but it is not terrible, either.
>
> > This was a very, very fucked up auction, a lot of things were sold for
> > nothing. A very bad way to organize a sale.
>
> > That Dayton MIG welder, I won for $100, for example.
>
> > i
>
> Tell the folks around here how great it is.
> There have been at least 15 farms selling out and NONE of them wanted to
> sell out.
>
> Auction prices have been just about 1/2 of what things are worth.
> How about $15,000.00 tractors in great shape for $7,000.00 or a NEW
> disc-bine for less than $3,000.00.
> We even have Amish folks selling out and moving out of the area.
>
> How about this little item. Wal~Mart usually hires a lot of temporary
> help for the warehouses and stores this time of year. They are not only
> NOT hiring they are laying people off because nobody has money to spend.
>
> They are stopping construction on 63 stores and two warehouses for next
> year. Plus they are planning on shutting down a few stores as well.
>
> Steve W.
You apparently have a different local ag economy than the Midwest
location I am at. Land prices are at record highs(even despite
markets crashing). Used equipment is still very high compared to a
few years ago. Some used equipment is appreciating in value, not
depreciating. It's very nuts.
JW
jw
$2200/acre for farm land? That's a steal. Even $4500 isn't bad (for
around here). Some just sold for $7000/acre. For farmland, not
development acreage. It's insane, because that won't cash flow itself
for probably 20 years. But there is still enough money floating
around, that some ops can absorb the cash flow loss, to gain
production size to support the overall operation.
I'm certainly not one of them. I would like to add a few acres, but I
can't compete with that. If I try, I will be so beholden to the banks
that it won't be worth it. So I just maintain where I'm at. Oh
well. At least I'm not going the other way...
JW
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
>Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, Dubya was stupid, and
>I voted for the man.
Great, acceptance is the first step of recovery.
> The current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is
>not only a stupid Nigger,
Oops, no need to read any farther. Are you drunk, or simply every bit
the willfully ignorant racist you appear? Dang, I sure hope nobody
chastises me for "bullying" you!
>Newton Smith
Slipping up on your nyms? Tsk, tsk.
Wayne
Mark Rand
wrote:
>Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> on
>or about Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:15:41 -0700 did write/type or cause to
>appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:55:51 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Compare Texas http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.TX.htm
>>>> With California http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ca.htm
>>>>
>>>> Grim...really really really grim.
>>>>
>>>> California used to be the 7th largest economy in the world. We are now
>>>> down to something like 28th place.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Obama.
>>>
>>>I didn't vote for Obummer, but I can assure you that California's woes
>>>do not in any way stem from 9 months of Obummer, they have been years in
>>>the making.
>>
>>
>>Of course they have. Obama simply pushed them off the ledge.
>>
>>And its still a long long way to the bottom.
>
> When the "disaffected youths" decided to fly some Aircraft into
>buildings in an effort at "Manmade Disturbances", one friend of mine
>took a look at the economy and declared bankruptcy. Why wait for the
>layoff? Another, took a look at his burn rate, at how much venture
>capital he had, and the possibility of things picking back up to just
>'bad' and closed the doors on his startup. No sense hoping for a turn
>around in that climate.
> I'm sure there were hundreds of businesses in Sept of '08 who said
>"things are tight, but we may make it.." who realized what a Democrat
>party lock on the White House, and Congress meant for business and the
>economy and said "That's it, we're done, we're not going to see things
>turn around before the money runs out."
>-
When you get a dose of the clap, it is not meaningful to blame it on the
doctor that is treating the condition, unless the doctor was the one screwing
you just before you got the clap.
Mark Rand
RTFM
Ignoramus3519
> Ignoramus31369 wrote:
>> inflation protection supposed to be in gold, may have been exercised
>> here.
>
> Gold has bounced around a LOT, the thing is that you have to look at
> global pricing and supply. Then look for the curve and try to sell
> when the prices peak. OR if your using it as long term investment
> then you look for the low end and buy. I'm not looking at it WRT
> inflation as much as a solid investment.
The problem is, of course, that you do not know the future and do not
know whether you are seeking a "peak", "rise", "dip", or "collapse".
>
> Unimproved land with NO utility access is on the market locally for
> $4,500 an acre.
> There is a farm that isn't priced to bad but it is still at 2,200 an
> acre. The barn is in OK shape but the land itself hasn't been taken care of.
>
> I may actually grab that, break it up some and sell the barn and house
> for the timbers. Then put a smaller stick built on the lower section for
> myself and the wife and rent the upper to a local large acreage farm.
>
> Not really that interested right now. With the bunch we have in Albany
> now the tax situation is only going to get worse.
I may look for some local farmland.
i
Ignoramus3519
> Western US on finances. He is highly regarded in this field. One time when
> we were visiting them, we discussed gold. He pointed out some things that I
> never thought of. One is the security of the thing. How do you securely
> protect a million dollars in gold when people know you have it? If you go
> to the local grocery store, how does the clerk cut out the gold for your
> purchase from a block of gold? Who is to guarantee the purity of the gold?
> It is easily adulterated. If gold is the standard of trade, then everyone
> who goes to the grocery store or business would be a walking patsy for
> robbers. There is no ID on gold, and what is can be obliterated easily. If
> gold is made into small denominations, who is to guarantee the weight and
> purity of those smaller portions? Things to think about.
Yes, gold is more of an asset, not money.
i
Gunner Asch
In California..they just put an ADDITONAL 650 critters on the protected
species list. Farmers here are shutting down. California used to be the
nations breadbasket..now its becoming its vast desert. They shut off
the water
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/endangering_people_to_protect.html
pyotr filipivich
Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:39:41 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>
>> Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> on
>> appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>Well, here those shopping centers are filling up with tenants rapidly,
>> >>one huge new development is probably 90%+ occupied. The only store that
>> >>closed is Circuit City. New office condos are being build and filled,
>> >>new apartments still being built and filled, new houses, etc. The last
>> >>week I had my boss and a couple coworkers in town for a project, so we
>> >>were eating out a lot for lunch and dinner, and pretty much every place
>> >>we went was pretty well packed. It certainly doesn't appear to be window
>> >>dressing here...
>> >
>> >
>> >IVe heard a lot about Texas..and its actually doing ok. A shitload of
>> >people have left California and moved there..along with company owners
>> >and their companies.
>>
>> Not to mention Doctors. Texas put a cap on "pain and suffering"
>> awards, and the doctors are moving.
>
>Yes, several big new medical centers just built or under construction to
>open soon around here.
>
>>
>> >Same with Georgia etc etc.. The Southeast with its minimal tax rates
>> >etc etc has become the new Mexico as far as growing American industry
>> >goes.
>>
>> If only I could stand the humidity ...
>
>The humidity is fine in the DFW area, nothing like hotlanta. Good
>weather, good economy, low cost of living, no state income tax, etc.
And no mountains. I've gotten used to those the last thirty
years. I just realized that it has been at least that long since I
last lived some place where it froze in the winter. Not just got
below freezing at night some times, but the "high today is expect to
be near freezing, but then it will go back down later in the week."
kind of cold.
But maybe it is time to consider relocating.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Pete C.
Not in the immediate area, but within a reasonable drive west on 70-80
mph highway toward Big Bend, etc. if you want for a weekend trip.
> I've gotten used to those the last thirty
> years. I just realized that it has been at least that long since I
> last lived some place where it froze in the winter. Not just got
> below freezing at night some times, but the "high today is expect to
> be near freezing, but then it will go back down later in the week."
> kind of cold.
I bailed out of the frozen northeast. While it's not as hilly here north
of Dallas, there are plenty of trees and wooded areas which is fine for
me. I have no plans to go back to the northeast.
> But maybe it is time to consider relocating.
The best time would have been before the housing bubble burst in the
places worth leaving now. It's still a decent time to consider
relocating if you were to loose a job in one of those problem states
since you'd have a better time finding a new job here and the lower cost
of living would make your savings and severance last longer as well.
pyotr filipivich
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>> But maybe it is time to consider relocating.
>
>The best time would have been before the housing bubble burst in the
>places worth leaving now. It's still a decent time to consider
>relocating if you were to loose a job in one of those problem states
>since you'd have a better time finding a new job here and the lower cost
>of living would make your savings and severance last longer as well.
"It is always a good time to buy. Not always a good time to
sell." So said my real estate agent friend, when I bought my house.
pyotr