Federal heavy vehicle use tax (heavy haul tax) form 2290

[Ignoramus11296]

The semi truck that I own, with the trailer, is now
semi-operational. The only thing that does not work, yet, is the
hydraulic beavertail on the trailer.

We are now using it
You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:

http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg

Anyway, my question is about the federal heavy haul tax, form 2290:

Form: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2290.pdf
Instruction: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2290.pdf

The law is that owners of heavy vehicles must pay heavy haul
tax. In my case, with a "V" plate, it would be $500 per year.

However, there is a provision that if the truck is expected
to be used less than 5,000 miles per year, then it can be claimed as
"suspended", and I would not owe tax. This comes to using it less than
100 miles per week. As of now, I expect that we will in fact be using
it less than 100 miles a week.

Am I correct in my reading that I can claim it as suspended and submit
the return, but not pay tax? And if, say, I end up using it more than
5,000 miles per year, I can then pay tax? Anyone knows this well
enough?

thanks

i

[dpb]

On 9/23/2012 3:58 PM, Ignoramus11296 wrote:
...

> Am I correct in my reading that I can claim it as suspended and submit
> the return, but not pay tax? And if, say, I end up using it more than
> 5,000 miles per year, I can then pay tax? Anyone knows this well
> enough?

...

I believe that is so, Igg, but post the question to misc.taxes.moderated
-- there are several pros over there who will research/cite before
posting if don't know otoh...

--

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 9/23/2012 4:58 PM, Ignoramus11296 wrote:
> ...

> We are now using it
> You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:
>
> http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg

> ...

Wow - you are dealing in some serious shit! Is "machinerymoverschicago"
a new business of yours? Bob

[Steve W.]

> On 9/23/2012 3:58 PM, Ignoramus11296 wrote:
> ...
>
>> Am I correct in my reading that I can claim it as suspended and submit
>> the return, but not pay tax? And if, say, I end up using it more than
>> 5,000 miles per year, I can then pay tax? Anyone knows this well
>> enough?
> ...

You can deal with it either way. Pay the "tax" first then claim a refund
if you don't hit 5K a year. Or file for suspension and pay if you go over.

BUT either way you had better have VERY good documentation. Vehicle
logs, driver logs, fuel reciepts and such to be able to prove the number.

--
Steve W.

[David Lesher]

Ignoramus11296 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11296.invalid> writes:

>You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:

>http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg

Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Gunner]

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Ignoramus11296 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11296.invalid> writes:
>
>>You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:
>
>>http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg
>
>
>Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?

Caught my eye too!

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

[dpb]

On 9/24/2012 1:55 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>> On 9/23/2012 3:58 PM, Ignoramus11296 wrote:
>> ...

...

> BUT either way you had better have VERY good documentation. Vehicle
> logs, driver logs, fuel reciepts and such to be able to prove the number.

He's got to keep that anyway for the highway boys and he'll want it for
tax porpoises as well...

--

[Steve W.]

True, But you know how Uncle Sam is about paperwork... Especially a
hauler who claims to be running under 5K a year with a heavy rig.

--
Steve W.

[Ignoramus11519]

Good idea. I think that what I will do is, I will pay the tax now,
document my mileage, and then file for a refund if I am under 5k miles
after a year.

i

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Ignoramus11296 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11296.invalid> writes:
>
>>You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:
>
>>http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg
>
>
>Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?

<g> I sure would like one of those little ones, wouldn't you?
Garbage in, LIGHT SPEED (or time travel) out. How could it get any
better?

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Jim Wilkins]

"Larry Jaques" <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote in message

>>Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?
>
> <g> I sure would like one of those little ones, wouldn't you?
> Garbage in, LIGHT SPEED (or time travel) out. How could it get any
> better?

You'll be marooned on the Planet of Obsessive Recyclers.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
> <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> >Ignoramus11296 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11296.invalid> writes:
> >
> >>You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:
> >
> >>http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg
> >
> >
> >Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?
>
> <g> I sure would like one of those little ones, wouldn't you?
> Garbage in, LIGHT SPEED (or time travel) out. How could it get any
> better?

A great way to dispose of all the junk mail from the DNC.

[Richard]

On 9/24/2012 3:50 PM, Gunner wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
> <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> Ignoramus11296<ignoram...@NOSPAM.11296.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:
>>
>>> http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg
>>
>>
>> Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?
>
>
> Caught my eye too!
>
> Gunner
>

That's some heavy shit...

[Larry Jaques]

Where I stole the marjareen...

[Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)]

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:10:35 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Umm, Iggy? You did hear that part about 80,000# max with a standard
rig, right? I have a feeling you drive that over a scale the way it's
loaded in the picture, and it's gonna light up TILT by a good 5K to
10K.

And you start peeling Benjamins off that wad in your pocket and
handing them to the nice Illinois Highway Patrol Ossifer till he
develops a case of transient amnesia.

Or you let him write the ticket and the stack of bills (or the check
payable to the State...) you hand to the Court Clerk is going to be a
lot higher.

Oh, and don't try the Back Roads at 2 AM trick - Portable Scales.

--<< Bruce >>--

[Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)]

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:

>Ignoramus11296 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.11296.invalid> writes:
>
>>You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:
>
>>http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg
>
>
>Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?

You want one? I have one! For you, real cheep!!

(For the rest of you, Google up "Krups Type 223A Coffee Mill".
Paramount Art Department stickers not included.)

--<< Bruce >>--

[Ignoramus5080]

On 2012-09-25, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) <bruceNOSP...@gmail.INVALID> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:10:35 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On 9/24/2012 3:50 PM, Gunner wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:56:11 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
>>> <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ignoramus11296<ignoram...@NOSPAM.11296.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> You can see the truck with trailer on this picture:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.machinerymoverschicago.com/moving-02.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is that green thing the larger size Mr. Fusion?
>>>
>>>
>>> Caught my eye too!
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>>
>>
>>That's some heavy shit...
>
> Umm, Iggy? You did hear that part about 80,000# max with a standard
> rig, right? I have a feeling you drive that over a scale the way it's
> loaded in the picture, and it's gonna light up TILT by a good 5K to
> 10K.

It was not overweight, the stuff on it was mostly light, with the
exception of the shear on the back.

i

[dpb]

On 9/25/2012 7:56 AM, Ignoramus5080 wrote:
...

> It was not overweight, the stuff on it was mostly light, with the
> exception of the shear on the back.

...

I was wondering if that load arrangement w/ the shear on the ass-end
like that might not have caused an axle limit problem, though...

--

[Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)]

Yeah, I know the shear is heaviest. If he's loading it that far back,
that's telling me something down in the belly had to be just as heavy
for him to offset the weight and get some of that shear behind the
trailer axles. The big cylinder looks like a vertical boiler.

Because you sure the hell don't want to load it tail-heavy and unload
the tongue/fifth wheel - or the tail tries to wag the dog.

And in something that big, a fishtail is going to scatter the entire
load across all 8 lanes /real/ fast - I don't care how much chain you
use and how heavy the binders, it ain't gonna be enough.

--<< Bruce >>--

[Ignoramus5080]

On 2012-09-25, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) <bruceNOSP...@gmail.INVALID> wrote:

Everything went fine, no fishtail

[dpb]

On 9/25/2012 12:30 PM, Ignoramus5080 wrote:
...

> Everything went fine, no fishtail

But was the rear axle under the load limit if you'd gone across a scale? :)

It'll take all your profit for the whole load likely if not...just a
cautionary note as it surely looks iffy in the pitchur...

Don't know IL and I'll presume you didn't take that as a long haul but
TX gets you for the county in which you're stopped and then they
backtrack and add it up for every county thru which you've passed...

--

[Ignoramus5080]

On 2012-09-25, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
> On 9/25/2012 12:30 PM, Ignoramus5080 wrote:
> ...
>
>> Everything went fine, no fishtail
>
> But was the rear axle under the load limit if you'd gone across a scale? :)

I did some math in my head, and I believe that it was under the limit,
yes.

> It'll take all your profit for the whole load likely if not...just a
> cautionary note as it surely looks iffy in the pitchur...
>
> Don't know IL and I'll presume you didn't take that as a long haul but
> TX gets you for the county in which you're stopped and then they
> backtrack and add it up for every county thru which you've passed...

So, say, my rear axle would weigh 40,000 lbs at a scale, as an
example. If so, how much the fine would be in the area that you are
familiar with?

I believe that the rear axle was 8k from the trailer, plus 15k from
the shear, plus 8 or so K from the other stuff.

i

[Steve W.]

The last fine I paid for being heavy was in VA with a straight job that
was 3,200 over on the rear. There was a total of three different fines,
The Federal DOT combed the books and wanted $145.00 for a minor log
problem (forgot to change the status when I finally left the dock at
04:30) The state hit me with a $175.00 fine for the weight. (seems like
it was .055 cents a pound or something like that) plus court costs and
surcharge, Total was something like $288.00. So for the OOPS, I got to
pay about $450.00.

If you want to be VERY sure get a set of portable scales OR do like one
of the guys I ran with did. He had an outfit work over his rig and
trailer so he could tell you within 1-2 pounds just how it was loaded
right from the cab! Slick set-up and I don't think it cost all that much.


http://www.atri-online.org/state/data/osow_penalties.htm#ILLINOIS
--
Steve W.

[dpb]

On 9/25/2012 1:07 PM, Ignoramus5080 wrote:
> On 2012-09-25, dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>> On 9/25/2012 12:30 PM, Ignoramus5080 wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Everything went fine, no fishtail
>>
>> But was the rear axle under the load limit if you'd gone across a scale? :)
>
> I did some math in my head, and I believe that it was under the limit,
> yes.
>
>> It'll take all your profit for the whole load likely if not...just a
>> cautionary note as it surely looks iffy in the pitchur...
>>

...

> So, say, my rear axle would weigh 40,000 lbs at a scale, as an
> example. If so, how much the fine would be in the area that you are
> familiar with?
>
> I believe that the rear axle was 8k from the trailer, plus 15k from
> the shear, plus 8 or so K from the other stuff.
>

Generally, the following holds for interstate-class highways is
consistent w/ the below; local roads and highways are generally lower.

2. Axle Weight: Allowable gross weight on a single or set of axles is
regulated by individual states. States typically allow 34,000 lbs per
tandem axle and 20,000 lbs per single axle. Please refer to the American
Trucking Association's "Summary of Size and Weight Limits". Note : Over
50% of all U.S. citations issued are for axle weight violations, usually
the result of uneven distribution of the load inside the container.

I _believe_ the base overload fine rates in OK/TX start at $10/1000-lb
over the permitted weight. It's particularly onerous in TX as noted
because of their specific rule that the above is computed for every
county which the vehicle has passed through; not only on the one in
which the infraction was found. It can add up pretty quickly... :(

--

[Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:01:29 -0400, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:

>Ignoramus5080 wrote:
>> On 2012-09-25, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
>>> On 9/25/2012 12:30 PM, Ignoramus5080 wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Everything went fine, no fishtail
>>> But was the rear axle under the load limit if you'd gone across a scale? :)
>>
>> I did some math in my head, and I believe that it was under the limit,
>> yes.
>>
>>> It'll take all your profit for the whole load likely if not...just a
>>> cautionary note as it surely looks iffy in the pitchur...
>>>
>>> Don't know IL and I'll presume you didn't take that as a long haul but
>>> TX gets you for the county in which you're stopped and then they
>>> backtrack and add it up for every county thru which you've passed...

You may well have been under - I wouldn't try running the "Guesser
Booth" at the County Fair, but it looked a little iffy.

BUT unless you have a load cell or a pressure gauge on the fork
cylinder on the forklift you used to load the equipment (*) or you
went through the scales where you loaded it and made sure, you really
don't know either.

* We all know you can take the pressure on the lift cylinder and do a
little prestidigitation with the face area of the piston and any
mechanical advantage in the mast rigging (most have a 2:1 chain &
sheave on the lift cylinder for a two-stage), add in a little Fudge
Factor for friction, and you can calculate the weight on the forks.

Or you pick up a calibrated 2,000 pound weight and measure the
pressure difference from empty. Then pick up two and three, and make
sure it's linear.

Rule: The manufacturer's published weight for a piece of gear can be a
total guess - it doesn't take much of a flub at the foundry to make
the sand mold a little deeper, and the shear or press castings end up
a whole lot heavier than the specs. A Scale is the final word.

>> So, say, my rear axle would weigh 40,000 lbs at a scale, as an
>> example. If so, how much the fine would be in the area that you are
>> familiar with?
>>
>> I believe that the rear axle was 8k from the trailer, plus 15k from
>> the shear, plus 8 or so K from the other stuff.

Don't "think", know. Illinois DOT should have a brochure or a section
in the Vehicle Code (buy the Paperback) that spells it out precisely.
And I'll bet there's several "Truckers Bible" cheat-sheets out there
that condense the laws of all 50 states down to a chart.

>The last fine I paid for being heavy was in VA with a straight job that
>was 3,200 over on the rear. There was a total of three different fines,
>The Federal DOT combed the books and wanted $145.00 for a minor log
>problem (forgot to change the status when I finally left the dock at
>04:30) The state hit me with a $175.00 fine for the weight. (seems like
>it was .055 cents a pound or something like that) plus court costs and
>surcharge, Total was something like $288.00. So for the OOPS, I got to
>pay about $450.00.
>
>If you want to be VERY sure get a set of portable scales OR do like one
>of the guys I ran with did. He had an outfit work over his rig and
>trailer so he could tell you within 1-2 pounds just how it was loaded
>right from the cab! Slick set-up and I don't think it cost all that much.
>
>http://www.atri-online.org/state/data/osow_penalties.htm#ILLINOIS

The "Self-Weighing" rig is either hooked to a pressure sender in the
air-suspension bags, or (supposing here) they could put a load-cell at
one end of the spring shackle on a conventionally sprung trailer.

Either way, you know to within ~100 pounds, and if it's getting close
and you cant shuffle things around to make it better, you go through a
Certified Scale and find out for sure.

And you save the weigh slip in case the Highway Patrol miraculously
finds that it's over - They can stick their thumb on the scales too.
That's the time you insist they escort you to another set of permanent
scales and do it again.

--<< Bruce >>--

[Gohar Khan]

The Do's & Don'ts of an Engineering student.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-MweIUKAig&list=UUmhLtTCHD3S6Asrfi2zSJ2A&index=5&feature=plpp_video


Subscribe for more footage.

[James Waldby]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:11:52 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:01:29 -0400, "Steve W." wrote:
>>Ignoramus5080 wrote:

>>>
>>> I believe that the rear axle was 8k from the trailer, plus 15k from
>>> the shear, plus 8 or so K from the other stuff.
>
> Don't "think", know. Illinois DOT should have a brochure or a section
> in the Vehicle Code (buy the Paperback) that spells it out precisely.
> And I'll bet there's several "Truckers Bible" cheat-sheets out there
> that condense the laws of all 50 states down to a chart.

AITA has a Size & Weight Limits chart,
<http://www.aitaonline.com/Info/Road/Weight%20Size%20Limits.html>
plus links to Permit Requirements page, etc

--
jiw