OT: Cleveeland cop dies on the line
Tom Gardner
few blocks from my shop and I just happen to be running errands in the
neighborhood and was a few hundred feet from the place of the gunfight. If I
would have had a window open, I'd have heard the shots. I had to pull off the
road three times to let cop cars speed by on 93rd street.
Derek was one of the cops that followed up on some of my break-ins, he seemed
like a nice guy and was truly concerned about my problems. I remember he had a
sense of humor.
My point being that a recent thread about how "religious zealots" were putting
too many of these animals in prison. WTF??? This incident just confirms my
conviction to get my ccw. It just so happens that the security company that I
hire for the shop teaches the course every month and as a customer, I get a 20%
discount. I've decided to carry my Springfield XD-9mm especially after
installing an aftermarket trigger and a bit of polishing on the sear and striker
and installing a 4-40 overtravel limit set screw on the trigger bar. The
trigger is now SWEET! (Don, are you reading this?) I'll have to get a hold of
Gunner for ammo recommendations as I think 9mm is a marginal defense round.
Harold and Susan Vordos
"Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
news:ivLyj.60897$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
If you'll check the same thread of which you made reference, you'll see that
I'm not sympathetic of criminals. Far as I'm concerned, it should be open
season on the bastards.
Very sorry to hear of the tragedy with Officer Owens.
Harold
Tom Gardner
"Harold and Susan Vordos" <vor...@tds.net> wrote in message
news:nJLyj.43364$G23....@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
Cleveland is out of control! The joblessness, the failed schools and the
gestalt mentality have turned the inner city into a no man's land. Our
Democratic government spends money like water on convention centers and sports
arenas. The unions would rather see businesses shut down than offer
concessions. Companies have left in droves. I'll move at the earliest
opportunity.
SteveB
Trouble is, it's not much better elsewhere. We're out of the big city,
which is getting to be survival of the meanest mentality. You got what I
want and I'll just take it type of behavior.
We've sort of bunkered in buying two acres in a very rural area. We are not
naive enough to think that we are insulated or far away from the crime of
the city. We have crime here in a city of 1400, most of it associated with
theft to buy drugs. Two murders a couple of months ago, and three in the
last two years. My property is surrounded with barbed wire, forbidding
ravines lined with lava rock, cacti, and various other obstacles. Private
property signs all over the place.
And we still get people riding right through on ATVs like they're on public
land.
Next week, the rest of the fences and the signs go up. No way in except for
the main gate, and no way out except the same way. After that, the attitude
changes. Carrying a gun on your own property is legal, and some of these
idiots just need "private property" explained a little clearer. Those who
come after dark, or who don't come up the normal approach paths will be
treated as threats, which I consider them.
You want to come on my property, come in the front gate. Come to the front
door and identify yourself and state your purpose. Chances are, if you're
on the up and up, we'll have a nice conversation and a cold beverage. You
want to sneak through the back, or drive past private property signs and act
ignorant, let's rodeo, cowboy.
And if you come around between 9 PM and dawn and are sneaking around, you
deserve whatever happens to you.
Steve
Gunner Asch
Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint
Its hot. Really hot. And expensive. But it almost makes it a .357
magnum. Very well proven on the street.
Not for older guns.
The Corbons tend to fragment a bit more than I like, but they have a
pretty good street record.
It makes a LOT of noise and has significant recoil.
If you are noise or recoil shy..go with the Gold Dot loadings or the
Golden Sabers.
(Better a couple good hits than a few powerful misses due to flinch.)
Remington 115gr Golden Sabers
Anything loaded with the 115gr Speer Gold Dot.
Btw...Gold Dots are my personal favorite in most handguns/calibers
Dont bother with any of the 147gr bullets in ANY 9mm, even the Sig
357.
The Corbon Pow'Rball ammo is supposed to be really good, but Ive not
tested terminal ballistics on this particular bullet in any caliber.
I shoot a lot of 125gr .357 Remingtons.. because I scored a 20mm can
filled to the top some years ago. Im about 1/3 of the way
down...chuckle
Im usually carrying a .45 of some sort, or a .357 wheel gun.
Occasionally, a Mod 57 in .41 mag. Depends on my mood and AO.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Gunner Asch
The little town I live in, would love to have your busines. And Ill
bet you could get significant tax breaks from local government, and
likely free or near free land and perhaps a facliity existant.
It IS California..but its a Strongly conservative county, with a
sherriff who is almost Shall Issue with CCWs. We dont pay a lot of
attention to Sacramento, and as its a town in decline..there is a
significant workforce available. And hungry for new business.
Ron
Karl Townsend
> Cleveland is out of control! The joblessness, the failed schools and the
> gestalt mentality have turned the inner city into a no man's land. Our
> Democratic government spends money like water on convention centers and
> sports arenas. The unions would rather see businesses shut down than
> offer concessions. Companies have left in droves. I'll move at the
> earliest opportunity.
There's an empty facility right beside a rail line in my little town. The
city would fall all over itself with incentives to get you here. There's a
GREAT workforce, wonderful schools, good (well OK) government, great qualtiy
of life, etc. in this area. Same story in 1000's of small towns in rural
USA. It is time for you to move. Choose the area you'd like and start
shopping.
Why don't you come on out to MN? Don Foreman and I would be glad to show you
around. Stop at a few local cities to see what offers are available.
Karl
cavelamb himself
>> It IS California..but its a Strongly conservative county, with a
>> sherriff who is almost Shall Issue with CCWs. We dont pay a lot of
>> attention to Sacramento, and as its a town in decline..there is a
>> significant workforce available. And hungry for new business.
>>
>>
Thought so...
Site of teh movie, "THe Best of Times"
Robert Swinney
Bob Swinney
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9lfns3tq0a3ti6q47...@4ax.com...
Larry Jaques
<rir...@wort.com> quickly quoth:
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>
>> The little town I live in, would love to have your busines. And Ill
>> bet you could get significant tax breaks from local government, and
>> likely free or near free land and perhaps a facliity existant.
>>
>> http://www.taftchamber.com/
>>
>Interesting former name:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft,_California
<g> Having visited there, I'm surprised it wasn't named "Marooned".
--
An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes
the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done
or left undone in the short run determines the long run.
-- Sydney J. Harris
SteveB
"Karl Townsend" <karltown...@embarqmail.com> wrote
> Why don't you come on out to MN? Don Foreman and I would be glad to show
> you around. Stop at a few local cities to see what offers are available.
>
> Karl
I hear a lot of companies are deciding to give up the good life in
Kalifornia. A short ad in one of their papers might be productive. I have
heard of many communities and states GIVING companies land, tax breaks, and
all manner of gifts to entice them. And they're going for it.
AAAAAhnold recently went to Las Vegas with a semi truck, touting the good
business climate of Kalifornia. He invited any business who wanted to come
to return to Kalifornia with him, free trucking.
He had no takers.
Steve
T.Alan Kraus
> Btw...Gold Dots are my personal favorite in most handguns/calibers
>
> Dont bother with any of the 147gr bullets in ANY 9mm,
Try this load , Gunner:
147gr JHP Remington, 4.5gr Herco, CCI primer loaded to COL=1.152
Close to subsonic in a HP35 , good indoor defense round, tends to
transfer energy without going too far...
cheers
T.Alan
Don Foreman
Yes. I'd like to know more about the source of the aftermarket
trigger and about the overtravel limit setscrew, please. Note that if
"sweet" means "light", that is not a good tactical trigger for carry.
You want very crisp without a lot of travel, but somewhat heavy.
As to ammo: wait until after your training to choose ammo. Your
first criteria must be that the gun is utterly, flawlessly reliable
with it. XD's are not known to be fussy feeders, but you need to be
sure. I have not found any ammo that my XD .40 doesn't work
flawlessly with -- but if I had another one of the same model I'd
definitely check it.
Think about your choice of caliber for a moment. The advantage to
9mmp is that it has light recoil, double-stackers like the XD hold
lots of 'em -- and ammo is cheap. Forget about the mythical
"one-shot stop" with magic ammo in a 9mmp. You aren't limited to one
shot. If you get several hits in COM, the probability of at least one
of them having the desired effect is at least as good as one hit from
a heavier round that you may not shoot as well. Really critical
spots within COM are not arranged radially from center in importance.
COM is not a bullseye with numbered rings. They're somewhat randomly
distributed. A heavy round works better because it damages a larger
region -- but a lighter round in a right spot is even more effective.
Consider: the 12 gage shotgun with #00 buck is absolutely
unquestioned re stopping power. It merely delivers eighteen 97-grain
balls at 1100 fps. Each of these balls is both lighter and slower
than a 9mmp 124-grain HydraShok JHP, and they don't expand. However,
probability of one or more of them hitting a critical spot is
essentially 1.
You must be able to shoot well with the ammo you choose, which means
be in complete control of muzzle flip. You are in control when you
can deliver 4 or 5 rounds into COM at 21 feet in under a second.
A "hot" round that misses has negative efficacy because it still
invites return fire. Recoil should be a non-issue with a full-size XD
in 9mmp, but you need to be sure that's true for you with your piece
and your ammo.
Gunner Asch
Gunner Asch
My face may be seen in that movie, and several others.
For about .5 milliseconds
<G>
Gunner Asch
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:24:20 +1300, with neither quill nor qualm, Ron
><rir...@wort.com> quickly quoth:
>
>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>
>>> The little town I live in, would love to have your busines. And Ill
>>> bet you could get significant tax breaks from local government, and
>>> likely free or near free land and perhaps a facliity existant.
>>>
>>> http://www.taftchamber.com/
>>>
>>Interesting former name:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft,_California
>
><g> Having visited there, I'm surprised it wasn't named "Marooned".
Long as we have UPS and DHL, and the post office..hardly marooned.
<G>
Michael A. Terrell
i was deleting photos from a computer the other day and found a
picture of a Kern County Sheriff's cruiser. The legend said, "Well beat
you up, and take your donuts, too!" Do you want a copy?
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Michael A. Terrell
Sorry to hear that, Tom. It's alwways bad to hear that someone you
know has been killed, and even worse when it's so close to home.
Wes
>trucking
-tr +f ;)
Tom Gardner
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:8obos3ddi7q8t8pts...@4ax.com...
Look at this!
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/hs2000-sa-xd-accessories/61079-powderriver-trigger-mod-video.html
A half hour mod, if that. Locating the hole in the trigger bar for the set
screw was the most time, there's .010" on each side clearance. Have a pair
of hemostats handy to install the part. It doesn't lighten the trigger.
Gunner Asch
What about expansion? Shooting a JHP that wont expand...might as well
be shooting FMJs
Gunner Asch
Sure..send it along.
That photo was the result of having the Lerdo motor pool inmates
having a good time.
Everyone enjoyed it, including the cops.
Gunner
Don Foreman
Ayup!
Rex
2nd that. I have .45CAP pistols, but my carry gun is a .380, and the
backups in my vehicles are 9mm with extra magazines. My house gun is a
Hipower clone with 14 rnds of 9mm.
I can shoot fine with the .45s, but I'm much more accurate with
the 9mm.
Don Foreman
<tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>>
>
>Look at this!
>http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/hs2000-sa-xd-accessories/61079-powderriver-trigger-mod-video.html
>A half hour mod, if that. Locating the hole in the trigger bar for the set
>screw was the most time, there's .010" on each side clearance. Have a pair
>of hemostats handy to install the part. It doesn't lighten the trigger.
On order. Thanks, Tom!
I emailed you three pages of info on recommended SD/HD ammo.
F. George McDuffee
<tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>Officer Derek Owens died of a gunshot wound Saturday. The shooting took place a
>few blocks from my shop and I just happen to be running errands in the
>neighborhood and was a few hundred feet from the place of the gunfight.
<snip>
=========
While this is indeed a tragedy for the community and the officers
family, it is also the totally expected outcome where the
condition of increasingly unequal distribution of income exists.
Thus the same socio-economic/cultural conditions of countries
with high GINI indici such as Columbia and Brazil should be
expected in US areas with similar GINIs. Note that in Brazil,
the police are powerless in increasingly large areas of their
major metro areas such as Sao Paulo and Rio, with Army units with
heavy weapons support including tanks, now being required to even
enter many areas.
Officer Owens and his family paid the ultimate price for the
existing socio-economc policies. He won't be the last.
Commonly income distribution is expressed by a value called the
GINI index or coefficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
FYI
[the GINI index below is X 100, i.e. 23.0 = 0.23]
a Gini of 0 indicates perfect equality of income, a Gini of 1
indicates perfect inequality of income, i.e. one person gets it
all and everyone else gets nothing. USA is #94 out of 134
countries behind Iran and Russia. Remember the GINI is a measure
of income distribution, not level.
ranked from most equal to least equal *DISTRIBUTION* of income
Country CIA Gini[5] rank
Sweden Sweden 23.0 1
Denmark Denmark 24.0 2
Slovenia Slovenia 24.0 3
Iceland Iceland 25.0 4
Austria Austria 26.0 5
the Czech Republic Czech Republic 26.0 6
Finland Finland 26.0 7
Luxembourg Luxembourg 26.0 8
Slovakia Slovakia 26.0 9
Bosnia and Herzegovina Bosnia and Herzegovina 26.2 10
Albania Albania 26.7 11
Belgium Belgium 28.0 12
France France 28.0 13
Germany Germany 28.0 14
Hungary Hungary 28.0 15
Malta Malta 28.0 16
Norway Norway 28.0 17
Croatia Croatia 29.0 18
Cyprus Cyprus 29.0 19
Belarus Belarus 29.7 20
Ethiopia Ethiopia 30.0 21
Montenegro Montenegro 30.0 22
Serbia Serbia 30.0 23
Kyrgyzstan Kyrgyzstan 30.3 24
Pakistan Pakistan 30.6 25
Europe European Union 30.7 26
the Netherlands Netherlands 30.9 27
Romania Romania 31.0 28
Ukraine Ukraine 31.0 29
Bulgaria Bulgaria 31.6 30
Ireland Republic of Ireland 32.0 31
Spain Spain 32.0 32
Canada Canada 32.1 33
Tajikistan Tajikistan 32.6 34
Mongolia Mongolia 32.8 35
Greece Greece 33.0 36
Italy Italy 33.0 37
Moldova Moldova 33.2 38
Bangladesh Bangladesh 33.4 39
Yemen Yemen 33.4 40
Switzerland Switzerland 33.7 41
Kazakhstan Kazakhstan 33.9 42
Estonia Estonia 34.0 43
the United Kingdom United Kingdom 34.0 44
Egypt Egypt 34.4 45
Laos Laos 34.6 46
Tanzania Tanzania 34.6 47
South Korea South Korea 35.1 48
Australia Australia 35.2 49
Algeria Algeria 35.3 50
Lithuania Lithuania 36.0 51
Poland Poland 36.0 52
New Zealand New Zealand 36.2 53
Indonesia Indonesia 36.3 54
Azerbaijan Azerbaijan 36.5 55
Benin Benin 36.5 56
India India 36.8 57
Uzbekistan Uzbekistan 36.8 58
Mauritius Mauritius 37.0 59
Vietnam Vietnam 37.0 60
Latvia Latvia 37.7 61
Portugal Portugal 38.0 62
East Timor Timor-Leste 38.0 63
Guinea Guinea 38.1 64
Japan Japan 38.1 65
Israel Israel 38.6 66
Jordan Jordan 38.8 67
the Republic of Macedonia Republic of Macedonia 39.0 68
Malawi Malawi 39.0 69
Mauritania Mauritania 39.0 70
Burkina Faso Burkina Faso 39.5 71
Morocco Morocco 40.0 72
Tunisia Tunisia 40.0 73
Mali Mali 40.1 74
Georgia (country) Georgia 40.4 75
Ghana Ghana 40.8 76
Turkmenistan Turkmenistan 40.8 77
Armenia Armenia 41.0 78
Russia Russia 41.0 79
Senegal Senegal 41.3 80
Cambodia Cambodia 41.7 81
Thailand Thailand 42.0 82
Burundi Burundi 42.4 83
Singapore Singapore 42.5 84
Iran Iran 43.0 85
Nicaragua Nicaragua 43.1 86
Guyana Guyana 43.2 87
Turkey Turkey 43.6 88
Nigeria Nigeria 43.7 89
Kenya Kenya 44.5 90
the Philippines Philippines 44.5 91
Cameroon Cameroon 44.6 92
Côte d'Ivoire Côte d'Ivoire 44.6 93
==> United States United States 45.0 94 <==
Uruguay Uruguay 45.2 95
Jamaica Jamaica 45.5 96
Uganda Uganda 45.7 97
Ecuador Ecuador 46.0 98
Malaysia Malaysia 46.1 99
Mexico Mexico 46.1 100
Rwanda Rwanda 46.8 101
People's Republic of China 46.9 102
Nepal Nepal 47.2 103
Mozambique Mozambique 47.3 104
Madagascar Madagascar 47.5 105
Venezuela Venezuela 48.2 106
Argentina Argentina 49.0 107
Costa Rica Costa Rica 49.8 108
Sri Lanka Sri Lanka 50.0 109
The Gambia The Gambia 50.2 110
Swaziland Swaziland 50.4 111
Niger Niger 50.5 112
Zambia Zambia 50.8 113
Papua New Guinea Papua New Guinea 50.9 114
the Dominican Republic Dominican Republic 51.6 115
Peru Peru 52.0 116
Hong Kong Hong Kong 52.3 117
El Salvador El Salvador 52.4 118
Colombia Colombia 53.8 119
Honduras Honduras 53.8 120
Chile Chile 54.9 121
Guatemala Guatemala 55.1 122
Panama Panama 56.1 123
Brazil Brazil 56.7 124
Zimbabwe Zimbabwe 56.8 125
South Africa South Africa 57.8 126
Paraguay Paraguay 58.4 127
Bolivia Bolivia 59.2 128
Haiti Haiti 59.2 129
the Central African Republic Central African Republic 61.3
130
Sierra Leone Sierra Leone 62.9 131
Botswana Botswana 63.0 132
Lesotho Lesotho 63.2 133
Namibia Namibia 70.7 134
In the United States (by MSA) across time and internationally,
there is a very high correlation between quality of life measures
such as crimes against property, crimes against persons, and
homicide rates, etc.
Until recently individual US MSAs [metropolitan statistical
areas] estimates of GINI and crime statistics were available.
While this data is apparently still being complied it is no
longer available for download by the public. National and
internation income and trade date is becoming increaingly
restricted.
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Larry Jaques
Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> quickly quoth:
>Ayup. I make fun of it on my home page as well
>
>http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner
Bloody hypocrite!
http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/madeinusa.gif
Larry Jaques
>> i was deleting photos from a computer the other day and found a
>>picture of a Kern County Sheriff's cruiser. The legend said, "Well beat
>>you up, and take your donuts, too!" Do you want a copy?
>
>
>Sure..send it along.
>
>That photo was the result of having the Lerdo motor pool inmates
>having a good time.
>
>Everyone enjoyed it, including the cops.
Post a link once you have it online, please.
Martin H. Eastburn
What a scrounger!
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/
Michael A. Terrell
>
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:19:14 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
> Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> quickly quoth:
> --snip--
> >> i was deleting photos from a computer the other day and found a
> >>picture of a Kern County Sheriff's cruiser. The legend said, "Well beat
> >>you up, and take your donuts, too!" Do you want a copy?
> >
> >
> >Sure..send it along.
> >
> >That photo was the result of having the Lerdo motor pool inmates
> >having a good time.
> >
> >Everyone enjoyed it, including the cops.
>
> Post a link once you have it online, please.
Will do. Now, I just have to pry it out of a S-L-O-W Win 95 computer
when I get back out to the shop. Give me a couple days.
Tom Gardner
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
I got them, thanks! Stuff in there I didn't know. Daniel at Powder River did a
nice job on the part! I talked to him about a slight issue with the striker
blocking block. He explained how to check the clearance with the back end of
the slide apart and using a flashlight. If you have any questions, please call
me. 888-411-3265 toll-free I haven't tested it at the range yet but I will
this week. I haven't enjoyed shooting it much as I can't control it as I would
like...we'll see. I was looking around on http://www.springerprecision.com/ at
some of the shooting tips videos and I want to try some of the grip techniques.
I'll figure it out.
Gunner Asch
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:26:30 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
>Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> quickly quoth:
>
>>Ayup. I make fun of it on my home page as well
>>
>>http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner
>
>Bloody hypocrite!
>http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/madeinusa.gif
Hey,..,I bought em fair and square. I keep em off welfare and when
they get sick, I take em for a ride out into the desert for some sun.
A couple weeks later, some Varithane and they make great lawn jockeys
to sell at the swap meet.
Assuming the coyotes dont get em while they are drying out. Shrug
Gunner
Gunner Asch
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:19:14 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
>Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> quickly quoth:
>--snip--
>>> i was deleting photos from a computer the other day and found a
>>>picture of a Kern County Sheriff's cruiser. The legend said, "Well beat
>>>you up, and take your donuts, too!" Do you want a copy?
>>
>>
>>Sure..send it along.
>>
>>That photo was the result of having the Lerdo motor pool inmates
>>having a good time.
>>
>>Everyone enjoyed it, including the cops.
>
>Post a link once you have it online, please.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/kern.asp
Don Foreman
You will. I do recommend hiring a good coach if you can find one.
You could spend considerably more on ammo practicing bad habits than
you'd spend on a good coach for an hour or two to get you shooting
like you'd like to. Good coaches know stuff and are able to teach.
The XD as found is very, very easy to shoot well enough to pass most
cop qual tests. If it is upgraded more towards a 1911-like trigger
then it is not as easy for a seldom-shooter but it is capable of much
better performance with a bit of practice.
I'll report on my findings re the upgrade. I'm optomistic. I told
Daniel the only thing I don't like about my XD .40 is the trigger
since I've become functionally proficient with 1911. He said, "we
can take care of that." Hoo-ahh!
Ever wonder why the front of the triggerguard on Glocks and XDs are
shaped like they are?
Gunner Asch
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309907872/in/set-72157600486686209/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309106471/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309905708/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309108921/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309914464/in/set-72157600486686209/
Tom Gardner
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:pq2qs3dvgo68i60oa...@4ax.com...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309907872/in/set-72157600486686209/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309106471/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309905708/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309108921/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309914464/in/set-72157600486686209/
>
> Gunner
No grip help there! Let's see your speed grip/stance.
Tom Gardner
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
Ok, I'll bite, tell me about the trigger guard. BTW, I have a combat shooting
instructor on my staff and his son is a police instructor. It's just hard to
find the time, have to make the time! Roger's eye's DID light-up a bit when he
dry fired the XD after I installed the parts and polished the sear and striker.
I had him dry fire it 20 times before I diddled it.
T.Alan Kraus
I think expansion is out of the question at that speed, but the hollow
point acts as a meplat, and the effectiveness of a meplat for bullets at
about the speed of sound is well known.
cheers
T.Alan
Gunner Asch
Next weekend.
You didnt see the grip/stance with the Benelli?
<G>
Gunner Asch
<soun...@sonic.net> wrote:
True enough to some aspects. However at those velocities, Glassers or
Hydroshocks would be a better choice. Or the NATO truncated cone ammo,
if it feeds ok in an individual weapon. Weight does not always mean
penetration or kenetic transfer. Frontal diameter does.
For years I loaded .38 Spec. belly guns with hollow based wadcutters,
backwards.
Then I discovered the Federal Nyclad hps...then the bastards
discontinued them...fuckers. Designed to be fired from snubbies and
get expansion. Good expansion.
Not enough call for them, since folks are getting away from wheel guns
and going to pocket self loaders.
gunner
Don Foreman
<tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ever wonder why the front of the triggerguard on Glocks and XDs are
>> shaped like they are?
>>
>
>Ok, I'll bite, tell me about the trigger guard.
I've wondered too, and I don't know either. One guy recently
showed me a grip that was shown him, but I don't know anything about
the source's creds. It involved grabbing the front of the trigger
guard with the "trigger finger" of the supporting hand (left hand for
a righty). I will say that it does seem to steady things some, and
Todd was indeed shooting his XD.40 quite respectably that way.
Tom Gardner
> Not enough call for them, since folks are getting away from wheel guns
> and going to pocket self loaders.
>
> gunner
I love my revolvers! Just hard to carry and wrong trigger.
Gunner Asch
The squared off or hooked trigger guard is designed to do exactly
this...hook the trigger finger of the weak hand. Pull up with the
strong hand wrist, pull down with the weak hand finger, puts you into
a "bind"..a mini icosoles (sp?) triangle. Tuck your weak hand thumb
UNDER the strong hand thumb, aline side the frame..and you are good to
go.
Tom Gardner
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
The key is for the gun to return to the same position as fast as possible. So,
in addition to controlling recoil, minimize any unbalanced side pressure. The
problem I seem to have is the double-stack doesn't feel right in my hands. The
grip I've used for years just doesn't work, I don't know where to put my hands.
With the crappy trigger, the XD sat alone in the case. Did you see the videos
on the Springer site? If I wasn't running a night shift, I would have gone in
the back. Unfortunately, my people don't concentrate as well with the noise.
Hawke
Well, you're clearly anti American. You should leave the country. How dare
you say all those negative and critical things about this country. This is
the best country in the world. I can't stand unpatriotic people who do
nothing but put down this great country. It's guys like him that are tearing
this country down. America, love it or leave it is what I always say.
Hawke
Hawke
> bet you could get significant tax breaks from local government, and
> likely free or near free land and perhaps a facliity existant.
>
> http://www.taftchamber.com/
>
> It IS California..but its a Strongly conservative county, with a
> sherriff who is almost Shall Issue with CCWs. We dont pay a lot of
> attention to Sacramento, and as its a town in decline..there is a
> significant workforce available. And hungry for new business.
>
> Gunner
I live in California too. I know where Taft is. I've driven by there plenty
of times. It's crap. Believe me you wouldn't want to live there. Why do you
think "it's a town in decline" when the rest of California continues to
grow? That ought to tell you how attractive a place to live it is. It's
flat, hot, dry, and in the middle of nowhere. No wonder Popgunner lives
there. It's perfect for him.
Hawke
Tom Gardner
> On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:51:26 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
> <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:pq2qs3dvgo68i60oa...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309907872/in/set-72157600486686209/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309106471/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309905708/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309108921/
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/2309914464/in/set-72157600486686209/
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>
>>No grip help there! Let's see your speed grip/stance.
>>
> Next weekend.
>
> You didnt see the grip/stance with the Benelli?
>
>
> Gunner
You have too much fun in your spare time! That Benelli would be a LOT more fun
in an urban setting, bring it with you when you come to Cleveland!
Hawke
Some of today's best hollowpoints are specifically designed to expand at
quite slow speeds. I think it's Speer that has a 135 grain load in .38
special that is designed specifically for snubbies. Tests show it expands at
snub nosed speeds consistently. You just have to know your bullets. As to
the 147 grain 9mms, they are being used by a number of law enforcement
agencies and with the low speed expanding bullets they have a very good
record for stopping power. The days of the super high speed 115 grain 9mm
bullets being the way to go are long gone. Any modern 9mm bullet does a good
job. It's more personal preference than performance these days. Me, I like
the 124 grainers in Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, and the Hornady XTPs, which
are known to penetrate more than the others but not as much as Winchester
silvertips. Like they say, it's all good nowadays, and that includes the 147
grain ones too.
Hawke
Michael A. Terrell
>
> I live in California too. I know where Taft is. I've driven by there plenty
> of times. It's crap. Believe me you wouldn't want to live there. Why do you
> think "it's a town in decline" when the rest of California continues to
> grow? That ought to tell you how attractive a place to live it is. It's
> flat, hot, dry, and in the middle of nowhere. No wonder Popgunner lives
> there. It's perfect for him.
Then stop in, knock on his door, and tell him face to face, coward.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Well, you're clearly anti American. You should leave the country. How dare
> you say all those negative and critical things about this country. This is
> the best country in the world. I can't stand unpatriotic people who do
> nothing but put down this great country. It's guys like him that are tearing
> this country down. America, love it or leave it is what I always say.
>
Yawn. The inane bleating of a fake patriot.
pyotr filipivich
<gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> wrote on Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:49:19 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
>
>For years I loaded .38 Spec. belly guns with hollow based wadcutters,
>backwards.
>Then I discovered the Federal Nyclad hps...then the bastards
>discontinued them...fuckers. Designed to be fired from snubbies and
>get expansion. Good expansion.
>
>Not enough call for them, since folks are getting away from wheel guns
>and going to pocket self loaders.
I may. But a couple years ago, I had more cash on hand, so I said
"Snubnose 38 special." With a shrouded hammer. I like it, it fits in
the pocket, etc. "Better" concealment for me, than the Browning.
Maybe if I got a "good" shoulder holster....
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries
Tom Gardner
"Hawke" <desmi...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:13sscd0...@corp.supernews.com...
...and take all the union jobs and millions I pump into the economy with me?
How patriotic of you! Since you do nothing for the economy or supply jobs...you
should be kissing my ass!
Tom Gardner
And I would have bet on you being anti-gun...I'm impressed! I'll probably stick
with hardball and count on multiple taps, that's how I've practiced for 35
years, using one ammo all the time. I'll probably not carry very often, I just
want the option.
Jim Chandler
I read an article in, I think, "Combat Handgunner" a couple of months
ago that said that even NYPD, that bastion of antiquity, had gone to
hollow points for the simple reason that they wanted to stop the through
and through shootings in which other officers and by-standers were
getting shot by ball ammo. Makes sense to me. When I was on the force
in Richmond, Va. we had to stand inspection with ball but as soon as we
got in the car we switched to Super-vel hollow points.
Jim
Tom Gardner
Michael A. Terrell
>
> ...and take all the union jobs and millions I pump into the economy with me?
> How patriotic of you! Since you do nothing for the economy or supply jobs...you
> should be kissing my ass!
Tom, make sure all of your shots are up to date before you let
'hawkie' kiss your ass.
Gunner Asch
>>
>>
>> And I would have bet on you being anti-gun...I'm impressed! I'll probably stick
>> with hardball and count on multiple taps, that's how I've practiced for 35
>> years, using one ammo all the time. I'll probably not carry very often, I just
>> want the option.
>>
>>
>
>I read an article in, I think, "Combat Handgunner" a couple of months
>ago that said that even NYPD, that bastion of antiquity, had gone to
>hollow points for the simple reason that they wanted to stop the through
>and through shootings in which other officers and by-standers were
>getting shot by ball ammo. Makes sense to me. When I was on the force
>in Richmond, Va. we had to stand inspection with ball but as soon as we
>got in the car we switched to Super-vel hollow points.
>
>Jim
Super=vels...I think Ive got a couple boxes still tucked away. And
some Hiway Masters
We is old farts...sigh
Eregon
news:13sscss...@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> It IS California..but its a Strongly conservative county, with a
>> sherriff who is almost Shall Issue with CCWs. We dont pay a lot of
>> attention to Sacramento, and as its a town in decline..there is a
>> significant workforce available. And hungry for new business.
>>
>> Gunner
>
>
> I live in California too. I know where Taft is. I've driven by there
> plenty of times. It's crap. Believe me you wouldn't want to live
> there. Why do you think "it's a town in decline" when the rest of
> California continues to grow? That ought to tell you how attractive a
> place to live it is. It's flat, hot, dry, and in the middle of
> nowhere. No wonder Popgunner lives there. It's perfect for him.
>
> Hawke
>
For those who aren't interested in either Welfare or the Welfare State but
prefer personal freedom, towns like Taft have a definite appeal. <grin>
After all, "Chicken", not EVERYONE wants to be an inmate of such notorious
prisons as Los Angeles. <grin>
Hawke
With the quality of bullets available today there is no justification for
FMJ in a personal self defense weapon. Most modern guns will digest any of
the premium ammunition. That said, you always have to field test the ammo
you are going to use in your CCW. Occasionally you will find a brand of ammo
your gun doesn't feed properly. FMJ is almost guaranteed to make a small
hole and exit the target, which you don't want. You can't go wrong with the
Speer Gold Dots. Find a premium cartridge and stick with it. It'll work if
you ever need it.
Oh, one thing is for sure. I'm very pro gun. My views on things are not
consistent with one political philosophy, which is why some mistakenly think
I'm a liberal. I don't know any liberals who are fiscally conservative, pro
gun, and anti immigration like me. I'm fiscally conservative and socially
liberal. That doesn't fit in any particular party, and is why I've been a
registered independent for many years. While I surely disagree with you on
some things there are probably a number of areas where we agree. Unlike the
Popgunner, who I disagree with on nearly everything. But then he's a right
wing radical. If you find yourself agreeing with him a lot you need to seek
help.
Hawke
Hawke
Super-Vels! Wow, that was a long time ago. Those were the days of the super
hot light weight bullet trend in 9mm ammo. There's a lot more choices
nowadays. The advances in bullet design in the last decade have really
improved the performance of 9mm ammo to the point that all the expensive
stuff is very effective. Today it's not the bullet weight that matters that
much. It all performs really well. But I still think that the 124 grain
weight bullet is ideal for the 9mm caliber.
Hawke
Hawke
the
> >> gestalt mentality have turned the inner city into a no man's land. Our
> >> Democratic government spends money like water on convention centers and
> > sports
> >> arenas. The unions would rather see businesses shut down than offer
> >> concessions. Companies have left in droves. I'll move at the earliest
> >> opportunity.
> >
> >
> > Well, you're clearly anti American. You should leave the country. How
dare
> > you say all those negative and critical things about this country. This
is
> > the best country in the world. I can't stand unpatriotic people who do
> > nothing but put down this great country. It's guys like him that are
tearing
> > this country down. America, love it or leave it is what I always say.
> >
> >
> > Hawke
> >
> >
>
> ...and take all the union jobs and millions I pump into the economy with
me?
> How patriotic of you! Since you do nothing for the economy or supply
jobs...you
> should be kissing my ass!
How does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot? I just thought you
should hear the kind of garbage that I hear whenever I am critical of this
country. Not very nice is it? But that is the kind of thing I hear everytime
I say something is wrong with this country. Now you are criticizing the
country and you are surprised to hear those things said to you. The truth is
the country is in bad shape and has lots of things that need fixin'. Seeing
what's wrong and saying something about it doesn't make one anti American.
Some folks need to keep that in mind next time they hear somebody
criticizing America.
Hawke
Hawke
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:47CE3F40...@earthlink.net...
> Hawke wrote:
> >
> > Well, you're clearly anti American. You should leave the country. How
dare
> > you say all those negative and critical things about this country. This
is
> > the best country in the world. I can't stand unpatriotic people who do
> > nothing but put down this great country. It's guys like him that are
tearing
> > this country down. America, love it or leave it is what I always say.
> >
> > Hawkie
>
>
> Yawn. The inane bleating of a fake patriot.
You're such a stupid turd it's no wonder you didn't understand the point my
post. Go take your medication before you have a stroke.
Hawke
Jim Chandler
We used .38 revolvers, autos weren't allowed. The whole department
(445) used 4" S&W. One other guy and I had the only two 6" Colts that
the department had. Guess who had the better scores during annual
quals. This was in 1970-72.
Jim
Jim
Tom Gardner
Who's criticizing all of America, I had to reread my post to see where I said
that...I didn't. I'm talking about the Cleveland East side ghetto...a few
square miles. And I've explained the problem many times here, it has to do with
the history of Cleveland and many other smoke-stack cities that no longer
support the workforce that used to work the plants. They had kids and grandkids
and no good jobs available. Why is that? Hundreds of reasons.
I just want to move 15 miles West, where I live. Low crime, short drive, better
food, no gun.
Tom Gardner
Gee, let me guess...Ok, I give, tell us who DID score better?
Michael A. Terrell
I think you need to go back to the rubber room and your straight
jacket, birdbrain. It's way too late for them to cure you.
--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!
Jim Chandler
Why, the other guy with the 6" Colt and me, of course. The extra two
inches helped (I've heard that before) at 60 yards. Didn't have to aim
for the top of the head to drop a shot in center mass, only at the aam's
apple.
Jim
Don Foreman
<tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>
>"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
>news:rkhrs31r0v7e4r1lg...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:54:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
>> <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Ever wonder why the front of the triggerguard on Glocks and XDs are
>>>> shaped like they are?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, I'll bite, tell me about the trigger guard.
>>
>> I've wondered too, and I don't know either. One guy recently
>> showed me a grip that was shown him, but I don't know anything about
>> the source's creds. It involved grabbing the front of the trigger
>> guard with the "trigger finger" of the supporting hand (left hand for
>> a righty). I will say that it does seem to steady things some, and
>> Todd was indeed shooting his XD.40 quite respectably that way.
>>
>
>The key is for the gun to return to the same position as fast as possible. So,
>in addition to controlling recoil, minimize any unbalanced side pressure. The
>problem I seem to have is the double-stack doesn't feel right in my hands.
Gae thee to the gunshop and try a SIG P226 in 9mmp. You may find that
it fits your hand better than the XD.
You can afford one, I know you can as an evil captain of industry.
I don't own one, but a friend does. It is a very easy pistol to shoot
well. He says that most find it so, including beginners. I know
you're no beginner and far from it, I merely mention it as one I and
most others have found amazingly easy to shoot well. Recoil is about
a non-issue with that pistol in 9mmp.
A big factor in my selection of the XD was because it did and does fit
my hand like it grew there -- but my boots may not fit you and
conversely. I chose .40 S&W, you chose 9mmp. Both are best choices
if they fit the user. Pick yer pony, take yer ride.
Gunner
>"Hawke" <desmi...@dslextreme.com> wrote in
>news:13sscss...@corp.supernews.com:
>
>>
>>> It IS California..but its a Strongly conservative county, with a
>>> sherriff who is almost Shall Issue with CCWs. We dont pay a lot of
>>> attention to Sacramento, and as its a town in decline..there is a
>>> significant workforce available. And hungry for new business.
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>
>>
>> I live in California too. I know where Taft is. I've driven by there
>> plenty of times. It's crap. Believe me you wouldn't want to live
>> there. Why do you think "it's a town in decline" when the rest of
>> California continues to grow? That ought to tell you how attractive a
>> place to live it is. It's flat, hot, dry, and in the middle of
>> nowhere. No wonder Popgunner lives there. It's perfect for him.
>>
>> Hawke
>>
>
>For those who aren't interested in either Welfare or the Welfare State but
>prefer personal freedom, towns like Taft have a definite appeal. <grin>
Indeed. Its only in decline because the oil is drying up.
Flat, no...mountains to the west, starting a block from my house.
Hot, dry and in the middle of nowhere.
You say that like its a bad thing?
Its also in the middle of one of California's bread baskets.
>
>After all, "Chicken", not EVERYONE wants to be an inmate of such notorious
>prisons as Los Angeles. <grin>
Fuck no! I have to work in LA basin. It doesn't mean its superior to
where I live.
Our "gang problem" consists of a few dimwits using permanent markers
on garage doors.
Yours consists of the Bloods and Crypts, for a start.
Gunner
Eregon
news:5ijvs3h70tmjhnm5q...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:28:25 GMT, Eregon <Ere...@Saphira.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>For those who aren't interested in either Welfare or the Welfare State
>>but prefer personal freedom, towns like Taft have a definite appeal.
>><grin>
>
> Indeed. Its only in decline because the oil is drying up.
With the rising price of oil, look for an increase in Oil Patch activity
as older wells are revisited with newer extraction/retrieval methodology.
>
> Flat, no...mountains to the west, starting a block from my house.
> Hot, dry and in the middle of nowhere.
> You say that like its a bad thing?
Not me! <grin>
>
> Its also in the middle of one of California's bread baskets.
>>
>>After all, "Chicken", not EVERYONE wants to be an inmate of such
>>notorious prisons as Los Angeles. <grin>
>
> Fuck no! I have to work in LA basin. It doesn't mean its superior to
> where I live.
Having retired from my job in Houston, TX, I'm in total agreement with
you.
Now that I don't have to go there except on that rare occasion when
dealing with Doctors [Surgeons, mainly] or the Onan Distributor [I have
an Onan genset in my RV] I do my best to avoid the place.
>
> Our "gang problem" consists of a few dimwits using permanent markers
> on garage doors.
Most of ours have left town - headed to prisons.
Not long ago, a judge gave a would-be crack dealer 80 years for being
caught with 80 rocks. <grin>
Hawke
It's all the same. Whether you are criticizing Cleveland or Washington,
whether it's the environment, the military, or the president, it can all be
lumped in as criticizing the country. When I criticize the country or
specifically a part of it, like the government I get labeled anti American.
I was pointing out that I could do the same to your ragging on Cleveland
because last time I checked it was still part of America. It's gotten to be
real popular over that last few years to jump all over people and call them
anti American when they find fault with this country. All I was doing was
pointing out that this can be used against anyone, including you, any time
you say anything derogatory about anyone or anything American.
Hawke
Hawke
Hey, while I do think Taft is an undesirable jerkwater town that doesn't
mean that the area south of Bakersfield is any more desirable. I moved out
of Orange county in 1992 and I've never been back. Most of southern
California is now a polluted, overcrowded, snakepit. As to which is worse
Taft or L.A., now that's a tough one to answer because they both suck.
Hawke
F. George McDuffee
<desmi...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
<snip.
>It's gotten to be
>real popular over that last few years to jump all over people and call them
>anti American when they find fault with this country.
=============
Much depends on how/why they "find fault" and if they offer a
suggestion on how the situation can be improved.
just "dumping" does no good.
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Hawke
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:dre1t3lg0o330r6ht...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:35:11 -0800, "Hawke"
> <desmi...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> <snip.
> >It's gotten to be
> >real popular over that last few years to jump all over people and call
them
> >anti American when they find fault with this country.
> <snip>
> =============
> Much depends on how/why they "find fault" and if they offer a
> suggestion on how the situation can be improved.
>
> just "dumping" does no good.
Maybe, but being critical doesn't make one anti American.
Hawke
harl...@webtv.net
Tom: Check out South Dakota if you really want to move. No state
income tax on the personal or business level, right to work state so
there is little union interference and the Black Hills area sure looks
better than Cleveland ever did!!
A guy I ride motorcycle with moved there about 10 years ago from
Minnesota and found A job in A prototype machine shop and he says he'll
never come back to MN to work again.
H.R.
"The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax."
Albert Einstine.