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Union kills the twinkie
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azotic
Nov 16, 2012, 1:38:46 PM11/16/12
to
All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks, some
sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers and
570 outlet stores across the country.
Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical
benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had
worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he
was offered a buyout last year.
A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/
sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers and
570 outlet stores across the country.
Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical
benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had
worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he
was offered a buyout last year.
A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
because we can longer produce or delivery product."
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/
Tim Wescott
Nov 16, 2012, 2:05:34 PM11/16/12
to
overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.
Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
for buggy whips.
--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?
Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 2:23:53 PM11/16/12
to
food going broke.
Tom Gardner
Nov 16, 2012, 2:40:37 PM11/16/12
to
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
>Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
>food going broke.
>
Jon Elson
Nov 16, 2012, 3:39:51 PM11/16/12
to
ago. Who knows how long those same twinkies have been sitting on the
grocery store shelves, they keep practically forever, you know!
Jon
anorton
Nov 16, 2012, 3:34:15 PM11/16/12
to
"Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote in message
news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
food that makes kids fat.
Tom Gardner
Nov 16, 2012, 3:39:34 PM11/16/12
to
"Jon Elson" <jme...@wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:XqednfWz4__hPzvN...@giganews.com...
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 5:05:39 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 11:40 am, "Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Certainly not our government. I think it starts with having taste and
using common sense. I can taste the difference between store milk
that's government subsidized and organic milk from someone like:
http://www.5min.com/Video/The-Snowville-Creamery-in-Albany-Ohio-517503595
It's long past time for American's to reject chemical crap like
Twinkies.
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
using common sense. I can taste the difference between store milk
that's government subsidized and organic milk from someone like:
http://www.5min.com/Video/The-Snowville-Creamery-in-Albany-Ohio-517503595
It's long past time for American's to reject chemical crap like
Twinkies.
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 5:08:02 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 12:34 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
anything with High Fructose Corn Syrup as well.
wrote:
> "Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote in message
>
> news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> >news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
> >>food going broke.
>
> > I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?
>
> In this case I think it is parenting peer-pressure. My wife is the secretary
> at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
> lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
> cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
> healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
> food that makes kids fat.
Good. It's a start. It's time for more Americans to start rejecting
>
> >>Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
> >>food going broke.
>
> > I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?
>
> In this case I think it is parenting peer-pressure. My wife is the secretary
> at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
> lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
> cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
> healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
> food that makes kids fat.
anything with High Fructose Corn Syrup as well.
Stormin Mormon
Nov 16, 2012, 5:44:50 PM11/16/12
to
Michelle?
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote in message
news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote in message
news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 16, 2012, 5:55:37 PM11/16/12
to
Tim Wescott wrote:
>
> "The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
> overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.
>
> Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
> preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
> those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
> for buggy whips.
$20 an hour jobs.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 16, 2012, 5:56:03 PM11/16/12
to
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 16, 2012, 5:56:41 PM11/16/12
to
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 16, 2012, 5:58:03 PM11/16/12
to
Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> Michelle?
All 400 pounds of her?
F. George McDuffee
Nov 16, 2012, 6:23:02 PM11/16/12
to
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, "azotic"
While the unions make a convenient scape goat, from the data
record it appears this has been a long term "planned
bankruptcy" or in the more colorful argot of the Goodfellas,
a "bust out," from the time Interstate Bakeries was
purchased out of bankruptcy in 2004 by a consortium of
“private equity” funds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostess_Brands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripplewood_Holdings
It appears Hostess Brands had been preparing for a chapter 7
[liquidation] filing for quite some time, as executives and
law firms experienced in liquidation had been hired months
ago, and the liquidation was scheduled even if the unions
had accepted yet another benefit and wage cut.
(Contractually required employer defined benefit pension
contributions stopped over a year ago)
At least one sizable loan was obtained by the renamed
Hostess Brands, nominally to update and modernize their
facilities, but no update appears to have occurred. Rather
the loan proceeds appear to have been used to fund a special
dividend to the stock holders, which were the private equity
funds, and which more than covered their initial investment
to purchase Interstate Bakeries, which had already been run
into the ground by their previous owner, Data Processing and
Financial General which had purchased the corporation in
1975.
There appears to have been several fraudulent loans and the
pension fund seems to have been looted. Both of these
actions should be crimes, but most likely there will be no
prosecutions. Because of unemployment compensation, cost of
the social safety net, loss of taxes paid by the company and
their employees, tax credits for bad loans/business losses,
and expense to cover the pension shortfall through the PBGC,
very considerable costs have been externalized to society
and the general taxpayers.
--
Unka' George
"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"
-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 6:46:29 PM11/16/12
to
What new and innovative product has Hostess come up with in the last
ten years.
Why didn't Hostess try to make some healthier stuff instead of
chemical garbage?
Why are unions to blame for bad Hostess management?
How about we examine what's in a Twinkee and why so many people (like
myself) won't eat garbage like Twinkee's:
Twinkie ingredients:
"Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose
corn syrup, vegetable and/or animal shortening – containing one or
more of partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and canola oil, and
beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum,
whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium
phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup, solids, mono and
diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium
caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate,
natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow #5, red #40.[8]"
anorton
Nov 16, 2012, 7:00:53 PM11/16/12
to
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:vngda89pfiqok6o5s...@4ax.com...
attention to this cooporate looting if the owners did not give workers their
share of the Hostess pie as the comapny was ransacked. They knew they would
soon be out of work anyway.
It is remarkable how closely this parallels the scenario in the movie Wall
Street from 1987 ! It is remarkable that corporate raiders still get away
with stuff like this. It is remarkable that people still believe the
propaganda that unions are just being stupid and greedy while managment is
honest and taken advantage of. In reality, both parties are smart,
unscrupulous, and greedy.
Jon Elson
Nov 16, 2012, 7:11:31 PM11/16/12
to
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> So, you've never seen moldy Twinkies?
Umm, actually, no, I never have, and I'm pretty sure I've
> So, you've never seen moldy Twinkies?
seen some that were quite old. I suppose if they get wet, they
will start to rot.
Jon
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 16, 2012, 7:13:09 PM11/16/12
to
contrary. I have seen them covered in bread mold when someone left them
laying around. Not a pretty sight. :(
anorton
Nov 16, 2012, 7:26:14 PM11/16/12
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BvOdnbXmaZoHSzvN...@earthlink.com...
http://writingshares.com/nbc-tv-tonight-show-video-jay-leno-skit-stuff-we-found-on-ebay-october-2-2012/
BQ340
Nov 16, 2012, 7:31:25 PM11/16/12
to
will look pretty silly when they are old men, in the hospital, dying of
nothing?
At least I had exposure to 1, 1, 1-trichloroethane tapping fluid, lead
paint, Twinkies, etc. in my lifetime.
MikeB
--
Email is valid but not checked often
F. George McDuffee
Nov 16, 2012, 7:37:32 PM11/16/12
to
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:00:53 -0800, "anorton"
<ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
<snip>
While there may have been some attempt by the union
leadership to attract attention, IMNSHO it was a refusal by
the union and its members to play any more games. They
could see the writing on the wall, and could follow the
looting of their pension funds, and decided to cut it off
now. FWIW - the expiration of the Bush era tax cuts,
particularly on Capital Gains may have had more to do with
liquidation at this time than any union "interagency."
You may find this analysis of interest
http://www.wright.edu/administration/aaup/OL/OL-2012-01/2012-01-OL-18.pdf
Bain, Elliott, and Ripplewood -- all cut from the same bolt
of cloth...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Singer_%28businessman%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Collins_%28financier%29
<ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
<snip>
>I am assuming that the whole point of the strike was to attract some
>attention to this cooporate looting if the owners did not give workers their
>share of the Hostess pie as the comapny was ransacked. They knew they would
>soon be out of work anyway.
>
>It is remarkable how closely this parallels the scenario in the movie Wall
>Street from 1987 ! It is remarkable that corporate raiders still get away
>with stuff like this. It is remarkable that people still believe the
>propaganda that unions are just being stupid and greedy while managment is
>honest and taken advantage of. In reality, both parties are smart,
>unscrupulous, and greedy.
==============
>attention to this cooporate looting if the owners did not give workers their
>share of the Hostess pie as the comapny was ransacked. They knew they would
>soon be out of work anyway.
>
>It is remarkable how closely this parallels the scenario in the movie Wall
>Street from 1987 ! It is remarkable that corporate raiders still get away
>with stuff like this. It is remarkable that people still believe the
>propaganda that unions are just being stupid and greedy while managment is
>honest and taken advantage of. In reality, both parties are smart,
>unscrupulous, and greedy.
While there may have been some attempt by the union
leadership to attract attention, IMNSHO it was a refusal by
the union and its members to play any more games. They
could see the writing on the wall, and could follow the
looting of their pension funds, and decided to cut it off
now. FWIW - the expiration of the Bush era tax cuts,
particularly on Capital Gains may have had more to do with
liquidation at this time than any union "interagency."
You may find this analysis of interest
http://www.wright.edu/administration/aaup/OL/OL-2012-01/2012-01-OL-18.pdf
Bain, Elliott, and Ripplewood -- all cut from the same bolt
of cloth...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Singer_%28businessman%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Collins_%28financier%29
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 16, 2012, 7:43:48 PM11/16/12
to
Like those 'Jay Walking' segments. If it was 12 years old, id would
have dehydrated and turned to dust. I had military rations that were
processed in the late '40s, when I was in the Army. They were almost 30
years old. The crackers were dust. Even though they were sealed in a
steel tin, they were stale and just turned to dust when you tried to
pick them up.
Jay wouldn't be funny, if he didn't lie all the time. That's what
second rate comics do for a living. If he was a better liar, he would
forecast the weather.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 16, 2012, 8:03:31 PM11/16/12
to
"F. George McDuffee" wrote:
>
> While there may have been some attempt by the union
> leadership to attract attention, IMNSHO it was a refusal by
> the union and its members to play any more games. They
> could see the writing on the wall, and could follow the
> looting of their pension funds, and decided to cut it off
> now. FWIW - the expiration of the Bush era tax cuts,
> particularly on Capital Gains may have had more to do with
> liquidation at this time than any union "interagency."
had the choice between applicants with similar backgrounds would you
hire the one from Hostess who refused to go back to work, or another
applicant?
John B.
Nov 16, 2012, 8:27:20 PM11/16/12
to
--
Cheers,
John B.
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 8:30:36 PM11/16/12
to
cared more about what they ate.
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 8:32:45 PM11/16/12
to
RogerN
Nov 16, 2012, 8:34:21 PM11/16/12
to
"azotic" wrote in message news:k8617k$2ga$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks, some
>sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
>nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
>benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers
>and 570 outlet stores across the country.
>Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to
>medical benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee
>who had worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions,
>before he was offered a buyout last year.
>
>A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
>
>"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
>because we can longer produce or delivery product."
>
>http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
>
>Best Regards
>Tom.
>--
>http://fija.org/
Right after re-electing King Ding Dong!
RogerN
>All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks, some
>sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
>nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
>benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers
>and 570 outlet stores across the country.
>Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to
>medical benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee
>who had worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions,
>before he was offered a buyout last year.
>
>A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
>
>"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
>because we can longer produce or delivery product."
>
>http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
>
>Best Regards
>Tom.
>http://fija.org/
Right after re-electing King Ding Dong!
RogerN
Tom Gardner
Nov 16, 2012, 8:46:19 PM11/16/12
to
them. I can't stand anything like them or Wonder bread. No loss to me!
I do feel for the owners...destroyed by the union.
Tom Gardner
Nov 16, 2012, 8:48:06 PM11/16/12
to
the truck load, they go right to her ass.
Tom Gardner
Nov 16, 2012, 8:48:27 PM11/16/12
to
Too_Many_Tools
Nov 16, 2012, 8:52:11 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 2:34 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> >news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
the school nurse of course.
TMT
wrote:
> "Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote in message
>
> news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> >news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
> >>food going broke.
>
> > I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?
>
> >>food going broke.
>
> > I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?
>
> In this case I think it is parenting peer-pressure. My wife is the secretary
> at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
> lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
> cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
> healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
> food that makes kids fat.
When I was a kid...I always smoked Twinkles after recess...after doing
> at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
> lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
> cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
> healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
> food that makes kids fat.
the school nurse of course.
TMT
Tom Gardner
Nov 16, 2012, 8:53:14 PM11/16/12
to
we have a Government for? This is not the age of responsibility and
never will be again.
Too_Many_Tools
Nov 16, 2012, 8:54:38 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 5:23 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
> -Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Take a hard look...Mitt's fingerprints on this one.
TMT
associates.us> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, "azotic"
>
>
>
>
>
> <H.B...@network.com> wrote:
> >All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks, some
> >sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
> >nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
> >benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers and
> >570 outlet stores across the country.
> >Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical
> >benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had
> >worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he
> >was offered a buyout last year.
>
> >A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
>
> >"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
> >because we can longer produce or delivery product."
>
> >http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
>
> >Best Regards
> >Tom.
>
> ============
>
> While the unions make a convenient scape goat, from the data
> record it appears this has been a long term "planned
> bankruptcy" or in the more colorful argot of the Goodfellas,
> a "bust out," from the time Interstate Bakeries was
> purchased out of bankruptcy in 2004 by a consortium of
> private equity funds.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostess_Brandshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripplewood_Holdings
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, "azotic"
>
>
>
>
>
> <H.B...@network.com> wrote:
> >All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks, some
> >sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
> >nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
> >benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers and
> >570 outlet stores across the country.
> >Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical
> >benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had
> >worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he
> >was offered a buyout last year.
>
> >A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
>
> >"Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
> >because we can longer produce or delivery product."
>
> >http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
>
> >Best Regards
> >Tom.
>
> ============
>
> While the unions make a convenient scape goat, from the data
> record it appears this has been a long term "planned
> bankruptcy" or in the more colorful argot of the Goodfellas,
> a "bust out," from the time Interstate Bakeries was
> purchased out of bankruptcy in 2004 by a consortium of
>
> - Show quoted text -
Take a hard look...Mitt's fingerprints on this one.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Nov 16, 2012, 9:00:33 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 7:46 pm, Tom Gardner <Mars@Tacks> wrote:
> On 11/16/2012 7:43 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > anorton wrote:
>
> >> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> On 11/16/2012 7:43 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > anorton wrote:
>
> >>news:BvOdnbXmaZoHSzvN...@earthlink.com...
>
> >>> Jon Elson wrote:
>
> >>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> >>>>> So, you've never seen moldy Twinkies?
>
> >>>> Umm, actually, no, I never have, and I'm pretty sure I've
> >>>> seen some that were quite old. I suppose if they get wet, they
> >>>> will start to rot.
>
> >>> They only have a 30 day shelf life, unlike the Urban Myths to the
> >>> contrary. I have seen them covered in bread mold when someone left them
> >>> laying around. Not a pretty sight. :(
>
> >> Jay Leno ate a 12 year-old unopened twinkie on air
> >>http://writingshares.com/nbc-tv-tonight-show-video-jay-leno-skit-stuf...
>
> >>> Jon Elson wrote:
>
> >>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> >>>>> So, you've never seen moldy Twinkies?
>
> >>>> Umm, actually, no, I never have, and I'm pretty sure I've
> >>>> seen some that were quite old. I suppose if they get wet, they
> >>>> will start to rot.
>
> >>> They only have a 30 day shelf life, unlike the Urban Myths to the
> >>> contrary. I have seen them covered in bread mold when someone left them
> >>> laying around. Not a pretty sight. :(
>
> >> Jay Leno ate a 12 year-old unopened twinkie on air
>
> > That's open to debate. He does a lot of things that aren't real.
> > Like those 'Jay Walking' segments. If it was 12 years old, id would
> > have dehydrated and turned to dust. I had military rations that were
> > processed in the late '40s, when I was in the Army. They were almost 30
> > years old. The crackers were dust. Even though they were sealed in a
> > steel tin, they were stale and just turned to dust when you tried to
> > pick them up.
>
> > Jay wouldn't be funny, if he didn't lie all the time. That's what
> > second rate comics do for a living. If he was a better liar, he would
> > forecast the weather.
>
> I haven't had a Twinkie since I was 8 or so, and I didn't like them
> them. I can't stand anything like them or Wonder bread. No loss to me!
> I do feel for the owners...destroyed by the union.- Hide quoted text -
> > That's open to debate. He does a lot of things that aren't real.
> > Like those 'Jay Walking' segments. If it was 12 years old, id would
> > have dehydrated and turned to dust. I had military rations that were
> > processed in the late '40s, when I was in the Army. They were almost 30
> > years old. The crackers were dust. Even though they were sealed in a
> > steel tin, they were stale and just turned to dust when you tried to
> > pick them up.
>
> > Jay wouldn't be funny, if he didn't lie all the time. That's what
> > second rate comics do for a living. If he was a better liar, he would
> > forecast the weather.
>
> I haven't had a Twinkie since I was 8 or so, and I didn't like them
> them. I can't stand anything like them or Wonder bread. No loss to me!
>
> - Show quoted text -
SO Tommy....what are you going to do to replace your lost business
> - Show quoted text -
from this customer?
TMT
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 9:02:10 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 5:46 pm, Tom Gardner <Mars@Tacks> wrote:
> On 11/16/2012 7:43 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > anorton wrote:
>
> >> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> On 11/16/2012 7:43 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > anorton wrote:
>
> >>news:BvOdnbXmaZoHSzvN...@earthlink.com...
>
> >>> Jon Elson wrote:
>
> >>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> >>>>> So, you've never seen moldy Twinkies?
>
> >>>> Umm, actually, no, I never have, and I'm pretty sure I've
> >>>> seen some that were quite old. I suppose if they get wet, they
> >>>> will start to rot.
>
> >>> They only have a 30 day shelf life, unlike the Urban Myths to the
> >>> contrary. I have seen them covered in bread mold when someone left them
> >>> laying around. Not a pretty sight. :(
>
> >> Jay Leno ate a 12 year-old unopened twinkie on air
> >>http://writingshares.com/nbc-tv-tonight-show-video-jay-leno-skit-stuf...
>
> >>> Jon Elson wrote:
>
> >>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> >>>>> So, you've never seen moldy Twinkies?
>
> >>>> Umm, actually, no, I never have, and I'm pretty sure I've
> >>>> seen some that were quite old. I suppose if they get wet, they
> >>>> will start to rot.
>
> >>> They only have a 30 day shelf life, unlike the Urban Myths to the
> >>> contrary. I have seen them covered in bread mold when someone left them
> >>> laying around. Not a pretty sight. :(
>
> >> Jay Leno ate a 12 year-old unopened twinkie on air
>
> > That's open to debate. He does a lot of things that aren't real.
> > Like those 'Jay Walking' segments. If it was 12 years old, id would
> > have dehydrated and turned to dust. I had military rations that were
> > processed in the late '40s, when I was in the Army. They were almost 30
> > years old. The crackers were dust. Even though they were sealed in a
> > steel tin, they were stale and just turned to dust when you tried to
> > pick them up.
>
> > Jay wouldn't be funny, if he didn't lie all the time. That's what
> > second rate comics do for a living. If he was a better liar, he would
> > forecast the weather.
>
> I haven't had a Twinkie since I was 8 or so, and I didn't like them
> them. I can't stand anything like them or Wonder bread. No loss to me!
> I do feel for the owners...destroyed by the union.
Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
> > That's open to debate. He does a lot of things that aren't real.
> > Like those 'Jay Walking' segments. If it was 12 years old, id would
> > have dehydrated and turned to dust. I had military rations that were
> > processed in the late '40s, when I was in the Army. They were almost 30
> > years old. The crackers were dust. Even though they were sealed in a
> > steel tin, they were stale and just turned to dust when you tried to
> > pick them up.
>
> > Jay wouldn't be funny, if he didn't lie all the time. That's what
> > second rate comics do for a living. If he was a better liar, he would
> > forecast the weather.
>
> I haven't had a Twinkie since I was 8 or so, and I didn't like them
> them. I can't stand anything like them or Wonder bread. No loss to me!
> I do feel for the owners...destroyed by the union.
that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
Hostess.
jon_banquer
Nov 16, 2012, 9:04:33 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 5:53 pm, Tom Gardner <Mars@Tacks> wrote:
> On 11/16/2012 5:05 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 11:40 am, "Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote:
> >> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
> >>> food going broke.
>
> >> I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?
>
> > Certainly not our government. I think it starts with having taste and
> > using common sense. I can taste the difference between store milk
> > that's government subsidized and organic milk from someone like:
>
> >http://www.5min.com/Video/The-Snowville-Creamery-in-Albany-Ohio-51750...
> On 11/16/2012 5:05 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 11:40 am, "Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote:
> >> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
> >>> food going broke.
>
> >> I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?
>
> > Certainly not our government. I think it starts with having taste and
> > using common sense. I can taste the difference between store milk
> > that's government subsidized and organic milk from someone like:
>
>
> > It's long past time for American's to reject chemical crap like
> > Twinkies.
>
> So, are you saying that parents should actually parent? Then what do
> we have a Government for? This is not the age of responsibility and
> never will be again.
I'm saying the government needs to stop subsidizing and controlling
> > It's long past time for American's to reject chemical crap like
> > Twinkies.
>
> So, are you saying that parents should actually parent? Then what do
> we have a Government for? This is not the age of responsibility and
> never will be again.
milk. What he have today isn't even real milk. It's watery garbage.
azotic
Nov 16, 2012, 9:45:25 PM11/16/12
to
news:b1dca539-95e1-40c7...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>I'm saying the government needs to stop subsidizing and controlling
>milk. What he have today isn't even real milk. It's watery garbage.
You can't even grow and eat your own food anymore.
The Southern Nevada Health District has raided an organic farm picnic
destroying the organic produce, which was classified by them as bio-hazard
material.
Apparently all the natural food served from farm must be certified by the
United States Department of Agriculture so the owners had to dispose of all
food including vegetables because of their 'bio-hazard potential'.
This meant the owners of the farm had to pour bleach on the produce in order
to safely render the dangerous organic healthy potatoes safe and prevent
them from being eaten by the farm owners as private citizens or by livestock
such as the pigs on the farm.
Read more:
http://www.economicvoice.com/nevada-health-district-shuts-down-organic-farm-picnic/50025543#ixzz2CRYlzI6q
>I'm saying the government needs to stop subsidizing and controlling
>milk. What he have today isn't even real milk. It's watery garbage.
The Southern Nevada Health District has raided an organic farm picnic
destroying the organic produce, which was classified by them as bio-hazard
material.
Apparently all the natural food served from farm must be certified by the
United States Department of Agriculture so the owners had to dispose of all
food including vegetables because of their 'bio-hazard potential'.
This meant the owners of the farm had to pour bleach on the produce in order
to safely render the dangerous organic healthy potatoes safe and prevent
them from being eaten by the farm owners as private citizens or by livestock
such as the pigs on the farm.
Read more:
http://www.economicvoice.com/nevada-health-district-shuts-down-organic-farm-picnic/50025543#ixzz2CRYlzI6q
Ecnerwal
Nov 16, 2012, 11:10:51 PM11/16/12
to
In article <2ZGdnc93wZyFSTvN...@giganews.com>,
Some friends left some Twinkies and a loaf of beard on their boat (not
intentionally.)
Came back months later to find a suppurating green mass of mold where
the bread had been and (right beside it on the counter, so they said)
Twinkies that looked fresh out of the package.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
intentionally.)
Came back months later to find a suppurating green mass of mold where
the bread had been and (right beside it on the counter, so they said)
Twinkies that looked fresh out of the package.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 16, 2012, 11:55:45 PM11/16/12
to
news:caa6ff50-8f03-4b6d...@r10g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
===
The unions repeatedly accepted pay cuts and other concessions.
Consumer demand for pre-sliced plain white bread and mass-produced
individually wrapped sugar coated snack cakes has been on the decline for
going on at least 2 decades now.
Rather than invest in new products and technology, management killed the
golden goose and squeezed the last few eggs from it's dead carcass.
The unions repeatedly accepted pay cuts and other concessions.
Consumer demand for pre-sliced plain white bread and mass-produced
individually wrapped sugar coated snack cakes has been on the decline for
going on at least 2 decades now.
Rather than invest in new products and technology, management killed the
golden goose and squeezed the last few eggs from it's dead carcass.
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 17, 2012, 12:07:56 AM11/17/12
to
"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:utpda81892rdn9d1l...@4ax.com...
will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
shareholders they have to answer to.
J. Clarke
Nov 16, 2012, 11:21:29 PM11/16/12
to
In article <e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-
c45c53...@vb8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>, jonba...@yahoo.com says...
>
> Questions people should be asking:
>
> What new and innovative product has Hostess come up with in the last
> ten years.
>
> Why didn't Hostess try to make some healthier stuff instead of
> chemical garbage?
>
> Why are unions to blame for bad Hostess management?
"The unions" are not to blame for bad Hostess management.
The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers
International Union however is to blame for going on strike after the
company settled with the Teamsters, making it impossible for the company
to continue operations.
c45c53...@vb8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>, jonba...@yahoo.com says...
>
> On Nov 16, 10:38 am, "azotic" <H.B...@network.com> wrote:
> > All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks, some
> > sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
> > nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
> > benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers and
> > 570 outlet stores across the country.
> > Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical
> > benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had
> > worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he
> > was offered a buyout last year.
> >
> > A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
> >
> > "Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
> > because we can longer produce or delivery product."
> >
> > http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Tom.
> > --http://fija.org/
> On Nov 16, 10:38 am, "azotic" <H.B...@network.com> wrote:
> > All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks, some
> > sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
> > nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came with
> > benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers and
> > 570 outlet stores across the country.
> > Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical
> > benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had
> > worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he
> > was offered a buyout last year.
> >
> > A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company said.
> >
> > "Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
> > because we can longer produce or delivery product."
> >
> > http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Tom.
>
> Questions people should be asking:
>
> What new and innovative product has Hostess come up with in the last
> ten years.
>
> Why didn't Hostess try to make some healthier stuff instead of
> chemical garbage?
>
> Why are unions to blame for bad Hostess management?
"The unions" are not to blame for bad Hostess management.
The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers
International Union however is to blame for going on strike after the
company settled with the Teamsters, making it impossible for the company
to continue operations.
Steve W.
Nov 17, 2012, 2:42:03 AM11/17/12
to
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>> Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
>>
>
> Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
> will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
> who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
> and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
> shareholders they have to answer to.
>
Where are these "small local bakeries" I know of 10 different small
>> Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
>>
>
> Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
> will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
> who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
> and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
> shareholders they have to answer to.
>
bakeries, all of them now out of business due to govt. regulations,
taxes, and the ever increasing cost of business.
Plus how many of these folks will now walk into a small bakery and
expect $20.00+ an hour when most small bakeries pay min. wage?
That is another section of this that I haven't seen mentioned. I wonder
what the actual job losses will be when you count up the losses in the
supply and delivery chain on top of the companies direct losses.
--
Steve W.
John B.
Nov 17, 2012, 6:23:28 AM11/17/12
to
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
Nov 17, 2012, 6:36:11 AM11/17/12
to
newcomers to the dairy scene. I can certainly remember dairy
operations very similar to their "organic" operation from my youth.
You know, cattle fed on hay and silage harvested by the farmer
himself, cattle turned out to pasture between milkings, etc.
Of course, back in those days you didn't have to pay extra to have
someone stick a sign on the milk bottle that said "Organic" as is so
common today.
I'm sure that you do know that the milk they are selling isn't
"organic" in the sense that it is untreated "raw" milk.
--
Cheers,
John B.
ATP
Nov 17, 2012, 7:23:21 AM11/17/12
to
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k87f4m$s26$1...@dont-email.me...
fresh goods, they will never be able to compete with two loaves of bread at
Costco for $4.00. This is the way the industry is going:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_Bimbo
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2012, 7:40:18 AM11/17/12
to
You mean the gal who mandated starvation
calorie levels for teenage school lunches,
reminiscent of the Nazi death camps?
calorie levels for teenage school lunches,
reminiscent of the Nazi death camps?
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6bKdnZ2X1I9jWTvN...@earthlink.com...
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2012, 7:42:49 AM11/17/12
to
Wow, just like gramma used to make. She'd go
to town once a year, on her miniature donkey. Go
to the town grocery store, and buy an ounce of
sodium stearoyl lactylate and bring it home,
to make the Christmas twinkie. Ah, the memories.
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com>
wrote in message news:e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-
Twinkie ingredients:
"Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose
corn syrup, vegetable and/or animal shortening – containing one or
more of partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and canola oil, and
beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum,
whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium
phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup, solids, mono and
diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium
caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate,
natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow #5, red #40.[8]"
to town once a year, on her miniature donkey. Go
to the town grocery store, and buy an ounce of
sodium stearoyl lactylate and bring it home,
to make the Christmas twinkie. Ah, the memories.
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com>
wrote in message news:e9254264-ce48-4d2f-b357-
Twinkie ingredients:
"Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose
corn syrup, vegetable and/or animal shortening – containing one or
more of partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and canola oil, and
beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum,
whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium
phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup, solids, mono and
diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium
caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate,
natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow #5, red #40.[8]"
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2012, 7:45:22 AM11/17/12
to
All this time, I thought it was government over
regulation killing the economy. So, my purchase
and consumption of Hostess was the cause of
unemployment?
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fd3d3b1c-1bc3-47d9...@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com...
regulation killing the economy. So, my purchase
and consumption of Hostess was the cause of
unemployment?
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2012, 7:47:54 AM11/17/12
to
I expect China to produce similar product, which
will soon be sold in Walmarts, and Harbor Freight.
will soon be sold in Walmarts, and Harbor Freight.
MadHatter
Nov 17, 2012, 8:10:28 AM11/17/12
to
On Nov 17, 4:48 am, "Stormin Mormon"
I love it. All the melamine you can eat and a bunch of free Harbor
Freight flashlights.
Freight flashlights.
jon_banquer
Nov 17, 2012, 8:16:28 AM11/17/12
to
On Nov 17, 3:36 am, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:32:45 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:32:45 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
that doesn't come close to tasting like Straus milk. Perhaps the
reason you fail to notice is you have been eating at McDonalds for far
too long.
Stormin Mormon
Nov 17, 2012, 8:24:11 AM11/17/12
to
A kindred spirit. We speak the same language.
"MadHatter" <greenegg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ee524b1-562c-465a...@kt16g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
"MadHatter" <greenegg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ee524b1-562c-465a...@kt16g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
Pete C.
Nov 17, 2012, 10:02:13 AM11/17/12
to
Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> All this time, I thought it was government over
> regulation killing the economy. So, my purchase
> and consumption of Hostess was the cause of
> unemployment?
Joseph Gwinn
Nov 17, 2012, 10:03:52 AM11/17/12
to
In article <MPG.2b10dad1...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local>,
I have to say that Hostess sold 323 million Twinkies in the last
12-month period, and had sales of 2.5 Billion in 2011, so it's not that
there were no sales. (Ref: The Hostess Liquidation: A Curious Cast Of
Characters As The Twinkie Tumbles, Submitted by Tyler Durden on
11/16/2012 10:18 -050)
So it has to be the cost structure.
There were also two articles in The Wall Street Journal (17 Nov 2012,
pages A1 and A16). The upshot was that it was work rules as much as
anything, plus pensions, that overwhelmed Hostess. The Teamsters had
agreed to the cuts, but the Bakers balked, and time ran out. I don't
doubt that Hostess was prepared for this outcome, given the history.
But there was a critical note in one of the two WSJ articles, that the
Twinkie brand and recipes portfolio would be sold as part of the
liquidation, to raise money to pay creditors.
Given that 323 Million Twinkies were sold per year, yielding billions in
sales revenue, someone will buy this. Like the Bimbo Group that was
trying to buy Hostess. What they will *not* buy is Hostess the company,
or any of its obligations.
Wonder if any Bakers Union people will get jobs in the new company.
Joe Gwinn
12-month period, and had sales of 2.5 Billion in 2011, so it's not that
there were no sales. (Ref: The Hostess Liquidation: A Curious Cast Of
Characters As The Twinkie Tumbles, Submitted by Tyler Durden on
11/16/2012 10:18 -050)
So it has to be the cost structure.
There were also two articles in The Wall Street Journal (17 Nov 2012,
pages A1 and A16). The upshot was that it was work rules as much as
anything, plus pensions, that overwhelmed Hostess. The Teamsters had
agreed to the cuts, but the Bakers balked, and time ran out. I don't
doubt that Hostess was prepared for this outcome, given the history.
But there was a critical note in one of the two WSJ articles, that the
Twinkie brand and recipes portfolio would be sold as part of the
liquidation, to raise money to pay creditors.
Given that 323 Million Twinkies were sold per year, yielding billions in
sales revenue, someone will buy this. Like the Bimbo Group that was
trying to buy Hostess. What they will *not* buy is Hostess the company,
or any of its obligations.
Wonder if any Bakers Union people will get jobs in the new company.
Joe Gwinn
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 17, 2012, 2:38:26 PM11/17/12
to
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k87f4m$s26$1...@dont-email.me...
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>> Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
>>>
>>
>> Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread
>> shutdown will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local
>> bakeries who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice
>> daily basis, and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in
>> management and or shareholders they have to answer to.
>>
>
> Where are these "small local bakeries" I know of 10 different small
> bakeries,
There's at least 6 of them in a city of population 36,648 just a few miles
>>> Right! The U.S. needs more jobless!
>>>
>>
>> Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread
>> shutdown will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local
>> bakeries who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice
>> daily basis, and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in
>> management and or shareholders they have to answer to.
>>
>
> Where are these "small local bakeries" I know of 10 different small
> bakeries,
up the freeway from me.
> all of them now out of business due to govt. regulations,
> taxes, and the ever increasing cost of business.
bakeries and a specific list "government regulations" that led to their
ultimate demise....
> Plus how many of these folks will now walk into a small bakery and expect
> $20.00+ an hour
of them made that much ?
http://www.careerbliss.com/salary/wonder-bread-production-worker-salaries-in-philadelphia-pa-561843/?q=production+worker&l=philadelphia%2C+pa
Average hourly wage appears to have been about $14.50
--personally, I don't get out of bed for anything less than about triple
that amount.
> when most small bakeries pay min. wage?
"The city and state you work in can affect the amount you earn as a baker.
The highest-paid city in the United States is Minneapolis, Minnesota, with
hourly rates for bakers between $14.20 and $17.66, while bakers in Dallas,
Texas, earn hourly rates between $9.83 and $12.84, as of November 2010,
according to Payscale.com. The difference in hourly rates for bakers occurs
when there is a greater demand for these workers than in other areas of the
country."
> That is another section of this that I haven't seen mentioned. I wonder
> what the actual job losses will be when you count up the losses in the
> supply and delivery chain on top of the companies direct losses.
products from now on.
Anyways, IMO the fundamental problem isn't labor costs...
--it's the fact that no matter how fast it gets baked, ultimately, the rich
can still only eat a certain amount of cake.
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 17, 2012, 2:42:11 PM11/17/12
to
"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.2b10dad1...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
Nusinesses always have the option of hiring scabs where meeting union
demands is not feasable.
Larry Jaques
Nov 17, 2012, 3:04:22 PM11/17/12
to
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:55:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Tim Wescott wrote:
>>
>> "The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
>> overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.
>>
>> Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
>> preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
>> those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
>> for buggy whips.
>
>
> Buggy whips didn't go out on strike, and refuse to go back to their
>$20 an hour jobs.
I hope the state refuses all their requests for unemployment benefits,
given that they voluntarily walked off their jobs and turned down an
offer by the company to keep them. Damn, what a bunch of dumbasses in
a really nasty job market! THAT is the union's fault. Effemall...
--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Tim Wescott wrote:
>>
>> "The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
>> overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.
>>
>> Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
>> preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
>> those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
>> for buggy whips.
>
>
>$20 an hour jobs.
I hope the state refuses all their requests for unemployment benefits,
given that they voluntarily walked off their jobs and turned down an
offer by the company to keep them. Damn, what a bunch of dumbasses in
a really nasty job market! THAT is the union's fault. Effemall...
--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein
RogerN
Nov 17, 2012, 6:36:45 PM11/17/12
to
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news:ebrfa8hen86h63qj8...@4ax.com...
>On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:55:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
><mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> Buggy whips didn't go out on strike, and refuse to go back to their
>>$20 an hour jobs.
>
>I hope the state refuses all their requests for unemployment benefits,
>given that they voluntarily walked off their jobs and turned down an
>offer by the company to keep them. Damn, what a bunch of dumbasses in
>a really nasty job market! THAT is the union's fault. Effemall...
>
>--
It's funny how unions drove labor prices up, union workers generally vote
for Democrats, but all the jobs lost are somehow the result of Republicans!
Union workers are just another group believing the Democrats lies and buys.
RogerN
news:ebrfa8hen86h63qj8...@4ax.com...
>On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:55:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
><mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> Buggy whips didn't go out on strike, and refuse to go back to their
>>$20 an hour jobs.
>
>I hope the state refuses all their requests for unemployment benefits,
>given that they voluntarily walked off their jobs and turned down an
>offer by the company to keep them. Damn, what a bunch of dumbasses in
>a really nasty job market! THAT is the union's fault. Effemall...
>
>--
for Democrats, but all the jobs lost are somehow the result of Republicans!
Union workers are just another group believing the Democrats lies and buys.
RogerN
Gunner
Nov 17, 2012, 7:00:50 PM11/17/12
to
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:05:34 -0600, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com>
wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:
>
>> All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
>> some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
>> nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
>> with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
>> centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
>> workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
>> according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
>> at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
>> offered a buyout last year.
>>
>> A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
>> said.
>>
>> "Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
>> because we can longer produce or delivery product."
>>
>> http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Tom.
>
decided they wanted a raise.
That union fucked 81,000 employees right in the ass..without any lube.
And the other 13 unions as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hostess-liquidation-teamsters-bakers-union_n_2145851.html
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:38:46 -0800, azotic wrote:
>
>> All Hostess Brands employees will lose their jobs in the coming weeks,
>> some sooner than others, the company announced Friday. The layoffs span
>> nationwide, and represent a deep cut in mid-wage jobs that often came
>> with benefits. The company had operated 33 bakeries, 565 distribution
>> centers and 570 outlet stores across the country. Many production
>> workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,
>> according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked
>> at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was
>> offered a buyout last year.
>>
>> A recent bakers strike was the final nail in the coffin, the company
>> said.
>>
>> "Widespread strikes by the Bakers Union forced us to cease operations
>> because we can longer produce or delivery product."
>>
>> http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Tom.
>
>"The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are
>overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.
>
>Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
>preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
>those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
>for buggy whips.
Of the 14 unions(!!) that serve inside of Hostess...one of them
>overcapacity," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said in an interview on CNBC.
>
>Yup. It's definitely the unions' fault that the market for cheap
>preservative-laden food has dried up and that someone had to go. Damn
>those unions. Next they'll go and figure out a way to ruin the market
>for buggy whips.
decided they wanted a raise.
That union fucked 81,000 employees right in the ass..without any lube.
And the other 13 unions as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hostess-liquidation-teamsters-bakers-union_n_2145851.html
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
jon_banquer
Nov 17, 2012, 7:15:08 PM11/17/12
to
>
> Gunner
>
> The methodology of the left has always been:
>
> 1. Lie
> 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
> 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
> 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
> 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
> 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hostess-liquidation-teamsters-bakers-union_n_2145851.html
> Gunner
>
> The methodology of the left has always been:
>
> 1. Lie
> 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
> 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
> 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
> 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
> 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
"The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of
financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two
bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market
share," the union said. "The Wall Street investors who took over the
company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by
attacking the company’s most valuable asset -- its workers."
jon_banquer
Nov 17, 2012, 7:29:29 PM11/17/12
to
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hostess-liquidation-teamsters-bakers-union_n_2145851.html
Comments:
"Realistically the reason Hostess failed is down to one thing:
products of poor nutritional quality, made with poorly-selected
ingredients, and to poor recipes. Many decades ago they might have cut
it because the buying public wasn't conscious of nutrition and mass-
produced foods seemed somehow "futuristic", but they didn't grow with
the times, and now seem bland and uninspired.
Hostess' products had little differentiation beyond color and shape.
They shared same texture, and barring the addition of a coating here
or a jam / cream layer there, the same bland, overly sweet flavor and
greasy mouth feel. They were to food what supermarket sheet cakes are
to a home-baked cake: almost totally unrelated.
And the slight additions to the basic formula like "chocolate"
coatings or creams bore essentially no relationship to their claimed
ingredients. I don't think anybody believed the waxy coating of a Ding
Dong the or artificially-flavored "chocolate creme" filling of a
Twinkie bore even the most slender relationship to real chocolate. The
same is true of the other additions; the "jams" were artificially
flavored corn syrups, the "creams" had never been near a dairy product
in their lives, and so on.
The products, in a word, were junk. And that is what sank the company.
Not CEO pay, not union demands, not anything else -- just a simple and
fundamental failure to provide what the public wanted: food that was
actually tasty.
Goodbye, Hostess. It's a shame about the lost jobs, but most won't
miss you. "
"The CEO tripled his own pay and the execs pay went up too, knowing
full well they wouldnt be able to pay for the pensions of the union
workers. It was vulture capitalism. "
"When I first heard the story I blamed the unions. But looking closer
at the story: top management took 80% pay increase this year, and the
ceo's salary was raised from 750k to 2.25 million / year, while the
company was going through bankruptcy and the workers had gone through
a round of paycuts / concessions. This is the kind of hypocrisy
today's vulture capitalism and the likes of Bain Capital and Romney
represents."
"This is exactly the kind of things Romney's Bain did... harvest
companies value i.e, take over a company, make them go into debt,
extract the cash to Bain...
Bain would get free money from banks while the company goes BK.
Remember his advise about GM? Make the workers take the hit for bad
management. No regard to the community.
But of course, folks getting $200 a month on food stamps... they are
the takers!
HYPOCRISY which, for any Christians who know their Bible, offended
Christ more then anything.
Hostess going BK was the plan people, either way the workers were
going to take the hit. "
"Now investors will come along and buy the brand. Hostess products
will live on, but made by non-union workers, probably very low-paid
illegal immigrants in right-to-work states or perhaps in Mexico. RIP
baker's union"
"They filed for chapter 11 in 2004. It took them almost 5 years to
restructure, form that filing they gained concessions from the
workforce but NOT from management. In the meantime, the American
appetite for fatty, sugar infused unhealthy snacks subsided quite a
bit. Other competitors adjusted more quickly, Hostess did not. That is
classic mismanagement. "
"... what’s happening with Hostess Brands is a microcosm of what’s
wrong with America, as Bain-style Wall Street vultures make themselves
rich by making America poor. Crony capitalism and consistently poor
management drove Hostess into the ground, but its workers are paying
the price. "
"The ultimate goal of private equity firms is not to return companies
to profitability and eek out meager profits year after year. It's to
maximize their ROI, which generally means saddling a company with
debt, bankrupting it, and breaking it up for profit. Equity firms do
this again, and again, and again, and yet the public still hasn't
caught on to the scheme. In other words, regardless of whether or not
the bakers union accepted the contract terms, the end result
ultimately would have been the same anyway. That is evident thanks to
previous filings from Hostess where it made it clear it intended to
move to a BK and that it intended to shut down factories, and by the
report from the mayor of St. Louis that he was told months ago by
Hostess that the factory there would be closing.
The strike simply makes the unions a convenient scapegoat and
conservative talking point, because conservative dittoheads will not
look beyond the union to see what actually has occurred at the company
over the past few years to get to the real reasons for it's demise."
Comments:
"Realistically the reason Hostess failed is down to one thing:
products of poor nutritional quality, made with poorly-selected
ingredients, and to poor recipes. Many decades ago they might have cut
it because the buying public wasn't conscious of nutrition and mass-
produced foods seemed somehow "futuristic", but they didn't grow with
the times, and now seem bland and uninspired.
Hostess' products had little differentiation beyond color and shape.
They shared same texture, and barring the addition of a coating here
or a jam / cream layer there, the same bland, overly sweet flavor and
greasy mouth feel. They were to food what supermarket sheet cakes are
to a home-baked cake: almost totally unrelated.
And the slight additions to the basic formula like "chocolate"
coatings or creams bore essentially no relationship to their claimed
ingredients. I don't think anybody believed the waxy coating of a Ding
Dong the or artificially-flavored "chocolate creme" filling of a
Twinkie bore even the most slender relationship to real chocolate. The
same is true of the other additions; the "jams" were artificially
flavored corn syrups, the "creams" had never been near a dairy product
in their lives, and so on.
The products, in a word, were junk. And that is what sank the company.
Not CEO pay, not union demands, not anything else -- just a simple and
fundamental failure to provide what the public wanted: food that was
actually tasty.
Goodbye, Hostess. It's a shame about the lost jobs, but most won't
miss you. "
"The CEO tripled his own pay and the execs pay went up too, knowing
full well they wouldnt be able to pay for the pensions of the union
workers. It was vulture capitalism. "
"When I first heard the story I blamed the unions. But looking closer
at the story: top management took 80% pay increase this year, and the
ceo's salary was raised from 750k to 2.25 million / year, while the
company was going through bankruptcy and the workers had gone through
a round of paycuts / concessions. This is the kind of hypocrisy
today's vulture capitalism and the likes of Bain Capital and Romney
represents."
"This is exactly the kind of things Romney's Bain did... harvest
companies value i.e, take over a company, make them go into debt,
extract the cash to Bain...
Bain would get free money from banks while the company goes BK.
Remember his advise about GM? Make the workers take the hit for bad
management. No regard to the community.
But of course, folks getting $200 a month on food stamps... they are
the takers!
HYPOCRISY which, for any Christians who know their Bible, offended
Christ more then anything.
Hostess going BK was the plan people, either way the workers were
going to take the hit. "
"Now investors will come along and buy the brand. Hostess products
will live on, but made by non-union workers, probably very low-paid
illegal immigrants in right-to-work states or perhaps in Mexico. RIP
baker's union"
"They filed for chapter 11 in 2004. It took them almost 5 years to
restructure, form that filing they gained concessions from the
workforce but NOT from management. In the meantime, the American
appetite for fatty, sugar infused unhealthy snacks subsided quite a
bit. Other competitors adjusted more quickly, Hostess did not. That is
classic mismanagement. "
"... what’s happening with Hostess Brands is a microcosm of what’s
wrong with America, as Bain-style Wall Street vultures make themselves
rich by making America poor. Crony capitalism and consistently poor
management drove Hostess into the ground, but its workers are paying
the price. "
"The ultimate goal of private equity firms is not to return companies
to profitability and eek out meager profits year after year. It's to
maximize their ROI, which generally means saddling a company with
debt, bankrupting it, and breaking it up for profit. Equity firms do
this again, and again, and again, and yet the public still hasn't
caught on to the scheme. In other words, regardless of whether or not
the bakers union accepted the contract terms, the end result
ultimately would have been the same anyway. That is evident thanks to
previous filings from Hostess where it made it clear it intended to
move to a BK and that it intended to shut down factories, and by the
report from the mayor of St. Louis that he was told months ago by
Hostess that the factory there would be closing.
The strike simply makes the unions a convenient scapegoat and
conservative talking point, because conservative dittoheads will not
look beyond the union to see what actually has occurred at the company
over the past few years to get to the real reasons for it's demise."
jon_banquer
Nov 17, 2012, 7:43:47 PM11/17/12
to
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hostess-liquidation-teamsters-bakers-union_n_2145851.html
"While everyone is quick to try and blame the unions. Every Wall
Street person I've heard speak on this over the past few days is
clearly laying the blame on management. A management that had grown
complacent over the decades content with selling the same crap. Never
improving the products. Never expanding the product line. And never
seeing the future. You can certainly blame the Bakers Union for
forcing that final step off the cliff, but this is a company that has
been running, not walking towards this cliff for several years now.
This is a prime example of Free Market Economics. Company stagnates.
Company loses market share. Company dies. Period. The end. Yes it
sucks for the 18,000 or so employees and I do truly feel sorry for
them, but this company was headed for demise regardless."
"I know when people are looking for an easy answer(which in this case
there is none) they just blame the union. But that same union was
around when the company was doing well. It was the management that
took this company down, not the unions. They just pushed a company
that was already at the edge(thanks to management) over it. It was
going to happen at some point, and there is nothing that anyone but
management could have done about it. It was the management that got
this company deep into debt. The management said yes to the union
rules. If this company did not have deep debt already and losing
market share, we probably would not be talking about this."
"The unions agreed to pay cuts twice, while the CEO's of the company
were getting raises. Yeap, it sure is the unions fault."
"Before you blame unions or Obamacare on the "end of the Twinkie" -
think on a few things. Listen to the outcry - there is demand for this
product - it may not have been scaled or marketed correctly but there
is demand. The ingredients are incredibly cheap. The marketing
approach, recipe, and manufacturing methods haven't changed in OVER 30
years with very little reinvestment. How many businesses survive in
that scenario? I may not be as bullish on uions as some of my liberal
friends would prefer but unions are almost always the result of failed
management and the more militant the union, the more failed the
management. Confrontation doesn't work and it isn't the same thing as
compettition. Well run companies rarely have labor problems and
companies that have labor problems - look closer they have lots of
other management issues. This seems like a classic case of really poor
management. Considering what CEOs are making these days- the Hostess
CEO will probably have a hard time finding another gig with this
aorund their neck - but it won't matter - they are set up for life
even by running a company into the ground. "
"While everyone is quick to try and blame the unions. Every Wall
Street person I've heard speak on this over the past few days is
clearly laying the blame on management. A management that had grown
complacent over the decades content with selling the same crap. Never
improving the products. Never expanding the product line. And never
seeing the future. You can certainly blame the Bakers Union for
forcing that final step off the cliff, but this is a company that has
been running, not walking towards this cliff for several years now.
This is a prime example of Free Market Economics. Company stagnates.
Company loses market share. Company dies. Period. The end. Yes it
sucks for the 18,000 or so employees and I do truly feel sorry for
them, but this company was headed for demise regardless."
"I know when people are looking for an easy answer(which in this case
there is none) they just blame the union. But that same union was
around when the company was doing well. It was the management that
took this company down, not the unions. They just pushed a company
that was already at the edge(thanks to management) over it. It was
going to happen at some point, and there is nothing that anyone but
management could have done about it. It was the management that got
this company deep into debt. The management said yes to the union
rules. If this company did not have deep debt already and losing
market share, we probably would not be talking about this."
"The unions agreed to pay cuts twice, while the CEO's of the company
were getting raises. Yeap, it sure is the unions fault."
"Before you blame unions or Obamacare on the "end of the Twinkie" -
think on a few things. Listen to the outcry - there is demand for this
product - it may not have been scaled or marketed correctly but there
is demand. The ingredients are incredibly cheap. The marketing
approach, recipe, and manufacturing methods haven't changed in OVER 30
years with very little reinvestment. How many businesses survive in
that scenario? I may not be as bullish on uions as some of my liberal
friends would prefer but unions are almost always the result of failed
management and the more militant the union, the more failed the
management. Confrontation doesn't work and it isn't the same thing as
compettition. Well run companies rarely have labor problems and
companies that have labor problems - look closer they have lots of
other management issues. This seems like a classic case of really poor
management. Considering what CEOs are making these days- the Hostess
CEO will probably have a hard time finding another gig with this
aorund their neck - but it won't matter - they are set up for life
even by running a company into the ground. "
anorton
Nov 17, 2012, 7:48:12 PM11/17/12
to
news:0c331a19-55d3-4e1d...@q5g2000pbk.googlegroups.com...
===============================================
Lets also not forget that managment gave themselves up to 300% raises just
before bankruptcy, while at the same time the pension fund was being raided,
while at the same time every one knew it was only a short while before they
all lost their jobs anyway.
At some point people make a rational decision to fight back against those
who are screwing them even if it harms themselves. The point is to
discourage such bad behaviour in others.
Lets also not forget that managment gave themselves up to 300% raises just
before bankruptcy, while at the same time the pension fund was being raided,
while at the same time every one knew it was only a short while before they
all lost their jobs anyway.
At some point people make a rational decision to fight back against those
who are screwing them even if it harms themselves. The point is to
discourage such bad behaviour in others.
jon_banquer
Nov 17, 2012, 8:10:20 PM11/17/12
to
On Nov 17, 4:48 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hostess-liquidation-teamster...
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/
wrote:
> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> "The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of
> financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two
> bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market
> share," the union said. "The Wall Street investors who took over the
> company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by
> attacking the company�s most valuable asset -- its workers."
> "The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of
> financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two
> bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market
> share," the union said. "The Wall Street investors who took over the
> company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by
>
> ===============================================
>
> Lets also not forget that managment gave themselves up to 300% raises just
> before bankruptcy, while at the same time the pension fund was being raided,
> while at the same time every one knew it was only a short while before they
> all lost their jobs anyway.
>
> At some point people make a rational decision to fight back against those
> who are screwing them even if it harms themselves. The point is to
> discourage such bad behaviour in others.
Just how poorly Hostess was run is documented here:
> ===============================================
>
> Lets also not forget that managment gave themselves up to 300% raises just
> before bankruptcy, while at the same time the pension fund was being raided,
> while at the same time every one knew it was only a short while before they
> all lost their jobs anyway.
>
> At some point people make a rational decision to fight back against those
> who are screwing them even if it harms themselves. The point is to
> discourage such bad behaviour in others.
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/
J. Clarke
Nov 17, 2012, 10:09:31 PM11/17/12
to
In article <qf2dnYnxHcILdTrN...@scnresearch.com>,
precisionm...@notmail.com says...
Believe what you want to. But don't come crying to me when you go on
strike and your job goes away.
precisionm...@notmail.com says...
strike and your job goes away.
ATP
Nov 17, 2012, 10:31:26 PM11/17/12
to
"anorton" <ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:Gt6dnQvAdYPyrTXN...@earthlink.com...
trying to negotiate lower pension costs, and suspended payments at a time
when the company was losing $341 M per year. Ripplewood will probably lose
at least $130 million, and the two hedge funds will also lose much of the
money they lent.
Sounds like there was a lot of blame to go around. While I can't blame the
union for trying to hold on to pensions, maintaining work rules such as
separate drivers for different products is ridiculous. The raises for
management were also ludicrous, but we're not talking about amounts that
would make that much difference compared to the losses.
John B.
Nov 18, 2012, 12:11:28 AM11/18/12
to
tasted different depending on what cow it came from. Probably having
to do with the amount of fat in the milk and I somehow seem to
remember that Jersey's gave the richest milk.
But I think what you are talking about is what we used to call
"skimmed milk". It's not actually skimmed but run through a
centrifugal separator to separate the cream as I guess that sells for
a higher price.
But you have your all encompassing government to thank for the make up
of most foods. Take a look at what is actually in Pizza cheese.
--
Cheers,
John B.
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 18, 2012, 7:58:22 PM11/18/12
to
news:MPG.2b121b793...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
I'm self-employed, you moron.
Tom Gardner
Nov 18, 2012, 11:26:51 PM11/18/12
to
On 11/16/2012 5:08 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
> On Nov 16, 12:34 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>> "Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote in message
>>
>> news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
>>> news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> In this case I think it is parenting peer-pressure. My wife is the secretary
>> at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
>> lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
>> cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
>> healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
>> food that makes kids fat.
>
> Good. It's a start. It's time for more Americans to start rejecting
> anything with High Fructose Corn Syrup as well.
>
>
>
And wheat gluten! That stuff will kill ya'.
> On Nov 16, 12:34 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>> "Tom Gardner" <mars@tacks> wrote in message
>>
>> news:PpudneHd8L0uCzvN...@giganews.com...
>>> news:54667f7e-b7fa-440c...@lg12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>> Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
>>>> food going broke.
>>
>>> I agree, but who decides what is unhealthy?
>>>> Hope this is just the beginning of companies who fail to make healthy
>>>> food going broke.
>>
>>
>> In this case I think it is parenting peer-pressure. My wife is the secretary
>> at an elementary school. If a kid comes to school with a Twinkie in his
>> lunch box, it is seen by other parents just as if he brought a pack of
>> cigarettes. Kids might have other treats that are only marginally
>> healthier, but for some reason the Hostess stuff became the epitome of junk
>> food that makes kids fat.
>
> Good. It's a start. It's time for more Americans to start rejecting
> anything with High Fructose Corn Syrup as well.
>
>
>
And wheat gluten! That stuff will kill ya'.
Steve B
Nov 19, 2012, 2:52:46 PM11/19/12
to
You moron, the Twinkie is not dead.
It is truly amazing, and disheartening just how stupid the majority of
Americans are. Starting with the person who started this thread.
The question is poised: Do we make changes in wages and other benefits so
we can keep 18,000 people working, or do we shut the place down?
Obviously, more voted to shut the place down rather than make any
adjustment. Probably get more in unemployment and food stamps and all than
they did working, and they get to sleep in.
So, what's going to happen? The obvious.
The owners of the Twinkie recipe will license smaller shops to make the same
product, some of them overseas. They will not have to pay union wages and
benefits. They can spread them around to take advantage of shipping
logistics.
Enjoy that time off, all youse guys. And remember, you can't buy liquor
with food stamps.
Steve
It is truly amazing, and disheartening just how stupid the majority of
Americans are. Starting with the person who started this thread.
The question is poised: Do we make changes in wages and other benefits so
we can keep 18,000 people working, or do we shut the place down?
Obviously, more voted to shut the place down rather than make any
adjustment. Probably get more in unemployment and food stamps and all than
they did working, and they get to sleep in.
So, what's going to happen? The obvious.
The owners of the Twinkie recipe will license smaller shops to make the same
product, some of them overseas. They will not have to pay union wages and
benefits. They can spread them around to take advantage of shipping
logistics.
Enjoy that time off, all youse guys. And remember, you can't buy liquor
with food stamps.
Steve
jon_banquer
Nov 19, 2012, 4:34:27 PM11/19/12
to
Hostess faces several objections to its liquidation plan.
"The U.S. Trustee, an agent of the U.S. Department of Justice who
oversees bankruptcy cases, said in court documents it is opposed to
the wind-down plan because Hostess plans improper bonuses to company
insiders."
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 19, 2012, 7:16:25 PM11/19/12
to
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
> that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
> Hostess.
Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their
contracted customers.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 19, 2012, 7:18:24 PM11/19/12
to
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
> will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
> who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
> and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
> shareholders they have to answer to.
running around the clock. 'Local bakeries' might be able to supply a
few supermarkets, at best.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 19, 2012, 7:19:38 PM11/19/12
to
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> I'm self-employed, you moron.
jon_banquer
Nov 19, 2012, 8:19:00 PM11/19/12
to
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
amaze me how truly dumb you are.
wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> We know. No one else would hire you.
He worked for Boeing for many years you idiot. It never ceases to
>
> > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> We know. No one else would hire you.
amaze me how truly dumb you are.
jon_banquer
Nov 19, 2012, 8:20:10 PM11/19/12
to
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> We know. No one else would hire you.
Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
>
> > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> We know. No one else would hire you.
shop I know of would ever hire you.
Steve W.
Nov 19, 2012, 8:37:17 PM11/19/12
to
POSSIBLE way that they can.
One of the few outfits that has survived so far is a place in Herkimer.
They have 12 employees and distribute to maybe 10 stores. Each store
gets about 20 loaves of bread and a few bags of rolls and cookies 3
times a week. Now if I take just ONE store as an example (say the local
Hannafords) They sell on average 70 loaves of bread PER DAY. I have gone
in on Friday nights and seen the entire rack sold out, that is bread
from at least 20 different brands. That includes the store branded stuff
as well as the big names.
BUT if you look at the Heidelberg bread it is usually only missing a
loaf or two. WHY?? The stuff costs about 5 bucks for a loaf that is half
the size of the normal loaf.
--
Steve W.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 19, 2012, 11:02:31 PM11/19/12
to
"Steve W." wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> ? PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> ?? Dollars to doughnuts the jobs that were "lost" to the wonder bread shutdown
> ?? will shortly be offset by increased employment at smaller, local bakeries
> ?? who put out a higher quality product. that's baked on a twice daily basis,
> ?? and who don't have excessive layers of dead weight in management and or
> ?? shareholders they have to answer to.
> ?
> ?
> ? Twice daily? That wouldn't pay their overhead. They need to be up ?
> ? running around the clock. 'Local bakeries' might be able to supply a
> ? few supermarkets, at best.
>
> Guess he thinks that the mom/pop places will fill the void. There is NO
> POSSIBLE way that they can.
>
> One of the few outfits that has survived so far is a place in Herkimer.
> They have 12 employees and distribute to maybe 10 stores. Each store
> gets about 20 loaves of bread and a few bags of rolls and cookies 3
> times a week. Now if I take just ONE store as an example (say the local
> Hannafords) They sell on average 70 loaves of bread PER DAY. I have gone
> in on Friday nights and seen the entire rack sold out, that is bread
> from at least 20 different brands. That includes the store branded stuff
> as well as the big names.
>
> BUT if you look at the Heidelberg bread it is usually only missing a
> loaf or two. WHY?? The stuff costs about 5 bucks for a loaf that is half
> the size of the normal loaf.
A typical grocery store around here has over 500 loaves on the
> Guess he thinks that the mom/pop places will fill the void. There is NO
> POSSIBLE way that they can.
>
> One of the few outfits that has survived so far is a place in Herkimer.
> They have 12 employees and distribute to maybe 10 stores. Each store
> gets about 20 loaves of bread and a few bags of rolls and cookies 3
> times a week. Now if I take just ONE store as an example (say the local
> Hannafords) They sell on average 70 loaves of bread PER DAY. I have gone
> in on Friday nights and seen the entire rack sold out, that is bread
> from at least 20 different brands. That includes the store branded stuff
> as well as the big names.
>
> BUT if you look at the Heidelberg bread it is usually only missing a
> loaf or two. WHY?? The stuff costs about 5 bucks for a loaf that is half
> the size of the normal loaf.
shelves. Then there are those super stores...
Larry Jaques
Nov 19, 2012, 11:54:16 PM11/19/12
to
the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union
strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of
them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit.
FUCK 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs.
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 20, 2012, 12:09:33 AM11/20/12
to
"Larry Jaques" <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote in message
news:k23ma8pampthmog35...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>>
>>> Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
>>> that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
>>> Hostess.
>>
>>
>> Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their
>>contracted customers.
>
> Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing
> the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union
> strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of
> them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit.
> FUCK 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs.
>
You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>>
>>> Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new products
>>> that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of
>>> Hostess.
>>
>>
>> Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill their
>>contracted customers.
>
> Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union pricing
> the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled. The union
> strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the states deny any of
> them unemployment benefits because they walked off the job. They quit.
> FUCK 'EM! Let the union pay them until they find burgerflip jobs.
>
SEE
Buggy whips
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 20, 2012, 12:13:59 AM11/20/12
to
news:c03e5e41-fc5d-41f9...@g7g2000pbi.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> We know. No one else would hire you.
You don't fucking know jack shit about me, Terrell.
wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> We know. No one else would hire you.
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 20, 2012, 12:18:53 AM11/20/12
to
news:9f1ce047-c6f4-41ad...@nl3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
---
Thanks jon much appreciated but I have to add that here that only a very few
could actually afford to do so.
BTW have you seen the latest issue of "production machining magazine" ?
--Advertiser content is great but editorial is like at the 7th grade level
IMO
Thanks jon much appreciated but I have to add that here that only a very few
could actually afford to do so.
BTW have you seen the latest issue of "production machining magazine" ?
--Advertiser content is great but editorial is like at the 7th grade level
IMO
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 20, 2012, 10:53:36 AM11/20/12
to
whole wheat bread in the area? I guess you lefties are spending all
your money on beer & cheap wine instead of bread. 200 people will be out
of work at the Merita Bread bakery in Orlando.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 20, 2012, 10:54:18 AM11/20/12
to
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> "jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9f1ce047-c6f4-41ad...@nl3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> >
> > > I'm self-employed, you moron.
> >
> > We know. No one else would hire you.
>
> Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
> shop I know of would ever hire you.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 20, 2012, 10:55:52 AM11/20/12
to
one would put up with at any normal business.
jon_banquer
Nov 20, 2012, 11:49:05 AM11/20/12
to
On Nov 20, 7:54 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
The more you post the clearer it becomes how much of a worthless loser
you truly are.
wrote:
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> > "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
you truly are.
Edward A. Falk
Nov 20, 2012, 11:49:23 AM11/20/12
to
In article <k8617k$2ga$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, azotic <H.B...@network.com> wrote:
Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
decade.
In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
of $150M/year.
They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%
The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
bankruptcy.
In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M
So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.
A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year
to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/18/1162786/-Inside-the-Hostess-Bankery
--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
decade.
In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
of $150M/year.
They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%
The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
bankruptcy.
In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M
So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.
A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year
to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/18/1162786/-Inside-the-Hostess-Bankery
--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 20, 2012, 11:52:52 AM11/20/12
to
"Edward A. Falk" wrote:
>
> In article <k8617k$2ga$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, azotic <H.B...@network.com> wrote:
>
> Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
> decade.
>
> In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
> of $150M/year.
>
> They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%
>
> The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
> received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
> bankruptcy.
>
> In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M
>
> So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.
good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%?
jon_banquer
Nov 20, 2012, 11:55:32 AM11/20/12
to
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-19/what-killed-twinkies
"There are plenty of culprits in the recent bankruptcy and closure of
Hostess Brands, including weak management, short-sighted labor unions,
and poor judgment by investors. But the real reason Hostess is going
belly up is a problem that’s been brewing for more than 20 years: The
company completely failed to innovate.
In the 1960s and ’70s, Hostess was a staple in the lunchbox of many
school kids. Many of us in the baby boomer generation grew up with
sandwiches made from Wonder Bread and Hostess Twinkies or Ding Dongs
for dessert. But over the past 20 years, most consumers moved away
from these products due to changing views on healthy eating.
As times change, brands and companies must evolve with them.
Innovative marketers must continue to find ways to make their brands
relevant through innovation. Hostess failed miserably at this—even
though it was becoming painfully obvious that consumers were walking
away.
There are plenty of examples of marketers who overcame stagnant or
declining business trends by developing solid innovation programs.
Clorox (CLX), for instance, turned its stodgy bleach business into a
$1 billion cleaning-products line by introducing new items that are
more relevant to today’s consumer, such as Disinfecting Wipes, the
ToiletWand, and the eco-friendly Green Works line.
Campbell Soup (CPB) has kept its business relevant by coming out with
a steady stream of innovation beyond basic canned soup. It now offers
microwaveable versions, portable packaging, healthier options, and
other meal solutions.
Procter & Gamble (PG) turned Oil of Olay, once considered a geriatric
brand, into a fast-growing, billion-dollar personal-care line by
introducing innovative products with greater appeal, such as the Olay
Regenerist anti-aging cleansers and moisturizers.
All of these transformations came as a result of relatively modest
investments in innovation. If Hostess had put a little more effort
into innovation at any point during the past 20 years, it would not be
where it is today."
"There are plenty of culprits in the recent bankruptcy and closure of
Hostess Brands, including weak management, short-sighted labor unions,
and poor judgment by investors. But the real reason Hostess is going
belly up is a problem that’s been brewing for more than 20 years: The
company completely failed to innovate.
In the 1960s and ’70s, Hostess was a staple in the lunchbox of many
school kids. Many of us in the baby boomer generation grew up with
sandwiches made from Wonder Bread and Hostess Twinkies or Ding Dongs
for dessert. But over the past 20 years, most consumers moved away
from these products due to changing views on healthy eating.
As times change, brands and companies must evolve with them.
Innovative marketers must continue to find ways to make their brands
relevant through innovation. Hostess failed miserably at this—even
though it was becoming painfully obvious that consumers were walking
away.
There are plenty of examples of marketers who overcame stagnant or
declining business trends by developing solid innovation programs.
Clorox (CLX), for instance, turned its stodgy bleach business into a
$1 billion cleaning-products line by introducing new items that are
more relevant to today’s consumer, such as Disinfecting Wipes, the
ToiletWand, and the eco-friendly Green Works line.
Campbell Soup (CPB) has kept its business relevant by coming out with
a steady stream of innovation beyond basic canned soup. It now offers
microwaveable versions, portable packaging, healthier options, and
other meal solutions.
Procter & Gamble (PG) turned Oil of Olay, once considered a geriatric
brand, into a fast-growing, billion-dollar personal-care line by
introducing innovative products with greater appeal, such as the Olay
Regenerist anti-aging cleansers and moisturizers.
All of these transformations came as a result of relatively modest
investments in innovation. If Hostess had put a little more effort
into innovation at any point during the past 20 years, it would not be
where it is today."
Steve W.
Nov 20, 2012, 3:24:07 PM11/20/12
to
they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases)
Oh and as proof that it is not WHAT you eat but how much you eat (IE
Lack of self control)
In 2010 a college professor named Mark Haub went on a "convenience
store" diet consisting mainly of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos in an
attempt to demonstrate to his students "that in weight loss, pure
calorie counting is what matters most—not the nutritional value of the
food". He lost 27 pounds over a 2-month period, returning his body mass
index (BMI) to within normal range.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
--
Steve W.
Gunner
Nov 20, 2012, 3:41:37 PM11/20/12
to
business.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 20, 2012, 4:11:03 PM11/20/12
to
Gunner wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>
> ?
> ?PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> ??
> ?? "jon_banquer" ?jonba...@yahoo.com? wrote in message
> ?? news:9f1ce047-c6f4-41ad...@nl3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> ?? On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terr...@earthlink.net?
> ?? wrote:
> ?? ? PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> ?? ?
> ?? ? ? I'm self-employed, you moron.
> ?? ?
> ?? ? We know. No one else would hire you.
> ??
> ?? Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
> ?? shop I know of would ever hire you.
> ?
> ?
> ? I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.
>
> I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of
> business.
No doubt, considering that all their tools came from Playskool, or
> I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of
> business.
Fisher-Price.
jon_banquer
Nov 20, 2012, 4:14:52 PM11/20/12
to
On Nov 20, 12:42 pm, Gunner <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:54:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> >> "jon_banquer" <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:9f1ce047-c6f4-41ad...@nl3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> >> > > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> >> > We know. No one else would hire you.
>
> >> Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
> >> shop I know of would ever hire you.
>
> > I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.
>
> I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of
> business.
>
> The methodology of the left has always been:
>
> 1. Lie
> 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
> 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
> 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
> 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
> 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
By your own admission you're not a machinist. It's crystal clear that
> >> On Nov 19, 4:19 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> >> > > I'm self-employed, you moron.
>
> >> > We know. No one else would hire you.
>
> >> Every machining job shop I know of would hire him in a heartbeat. No
> >> shop I know of would ever hire you.
>
> > I wouldn't work for any shop that admits they know either of you.
>
> I suspect that sort of machine shop would have already gone out of
> business.
>
> The methodology of the left has always been:
>
> 1. Lie
> 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
> 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
> 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
> 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
> 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to machining,
CADCAM, employees, etc.
anorton
Nov 20, 2012, 4:20:10 PM11/20/12
to
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k8gota$rbr$1...@dont-email.me...
http://www.privco.com/private-company/hostess-brands-inc
Regarding Prof. Haubs demonstration, I presume he made sure to eat an
adequate amount of protein as well as other micronutrients. One issue with
junk food is that empty calories leave your body craving more food to get
nutrients that it is missing. Not all these nutrients can be found in a pill
either.
There are several other long term issues that his 2 month experiment did not
reveal. High spikes of blood sugar tend to trigger insulin resistance,
damage the blood vessels, amd contribute to fatty liver if you are prone to
that. The other issue is trans-fat. Twinkies are loaded with it. This is
used because it is not found in nature and it does not spoil because
bacteria do not recognize it as food. The walls of all our cells are made
of lipid (fat) compounds. The trans fats replace the natural lipids when
cells divide leaving a component of our cells that has never existed in
nature in the 4 or 5 bilion years since the first cell came to be. Once it
is a part of your cells, you cannot get rid of it. Here is one of many
studies that show it does not seem to have good effects.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/6/697.abstract
Stuart Wheaton
Nov 20, 2012, 7:16:48 PM11/20/12
to
yielded enough money to pay each of the 18,500 workers an additional
$100. That is just the CEO, if the rest of the executives had taken a
similar haircut, they might have been able to save the company, but
since their goal was to loot it, it is really a moot point.
jon_banquer
Nov 20, 2012, 7:21:34 PM11/20/12
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On Nov 20, 1:20 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> Total sales for the Hostess group have been steadily droppinghttp://www.privco.com/private-company/hostess-brands-inc
I'm sure the unions can be blamed for this. ;>)
wrote:
> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
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> news:k8gota$rbr$1...@dont-email.me...
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> > PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> >> "Larry Jaques" <ljaq...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote in message
>
> news:k8gota$rbr$1...@dont-email.me...
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> > PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT
Nov 20, 2012, 8:04:00 PM11/20/12
to
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message news:k8gota$rbr$1...@dont-email.me...
> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>> "Larry Jaques" <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote in message
>> news:k23ma8pampthmog35...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>>> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>>>> Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new
>>>>> products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with
>>>>> the downfall of Hostess.
>>>>
>>>> Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill
>>>> their contracted customers.
>>> Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union
>>> pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled.
>>> The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the
>>> states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked
>>> off the job. They quit. FUCK 'EM! Let the union pay them until
>>> they find burgerflip jobs.
>>>
>>
>> You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.
>>
>> SEE
>>
>> Buggy whips
>>
>>
>
> WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when
> they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases)
>
NOPE
>> "Larry Jaques" <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote in message
>> news:k23ma8pampthmog35...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:16:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>>> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>>>> Destroyed by bad management and the inability to develop new
>>>>> products that the market wants. Unions had nothing to do with
>>>>> the downfall of Hostess.
>>>>
>>>> Other than the refusal to go back to work, so they could fill
>>>> their contracted customers.
>>> Between the stockholders wanting extreme profits and the union
>>> pricing the obsolete products out of sight, the market dwindled.
>>> The union strike was the last straw. Like I said, I hope the
>>> states deny any of them unemployment benefits because they walked
>>> off the job. They quit. FUCK 'EM! Let the union pay them until
>>> they find burgerflip jobs.
>>>
>>
>> You're ignoring simple drop off in consumer demand.
>>
>> SEE
>>
>> Buggy whips
>>
>>
>
> WHAT DROP? The sales of Twinkies had gone up every year till 2011 when
> they had a 2% drop (they sold "ONLY" 36 MILLION cases)
>
Total revenues have been dropping since at least 2003:
http://www.privco.com/private-company/hostess-brands-inc
It's interesting to note that during this same time, the actual cost per unit produced ( COGS) decreased steadily....
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 20, 2012, 8:12:21 PM11/20/12
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Stuart Wheaton wrote:
>
> On 11/20/2012 11:52 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> ? "Edward A. Falk" wrote:
> ??
> ?? In article ?k8617k$2ga$1...@speranza.aioe.org?, azotic ?H.B...@network.com? wrote:
> ??
> ?? Hostess management has been running the company into the ground for a
> ?? decade.
> ??
> ?? In 2005 the union made major concessions to the company, to the tune
> ?? of $150M/year.
> ??
> ?? They cut bakers pay by 8% and benefits by 32%
> ??
> ?? The CEO raised his own pay by 300%. Nine executives
> ?? received 60-100% raises while filing for their second
> ?? bankruptcy.
> ??
> ?? In 2011, they raided the employee pension fund and now owe it $160M
> ??
> ?? So now they blame the $20/hour employees for *their* failure.
> ?
> ?
> ? Ler's see. They have ONE CEO, and 18,500 other employees. How much
> ? good would it have done to cut the CEO's salary by 8%?
> ?
>
> Cutting his salary by 8% instead of raising it by 300% would have
> yielded enough money to pay each of the 18,500 workers an additional
> $100. That is just the CEO, if the rest of the executives had taken a
> similar haircut, they might have been able to save the company, but
> since their goal was to loot it, it is really a moot point.
So, on average that $100 would be about 3.33 hours overtime.
>
> Cutting his salary by 8% instead of raising it by 300% would have
> yielded enough money to pay each of the 18,500 workers an additional
> $100. That is just the CEO, if the rest of the executives had taken a
> similar haircut, they might have been able to save the company, but
> since their goal was to loot it, it is really a moot point.
J. Clarke
Nov 23, 2012, 5:38:13 PM11/23/12
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In article <k8gcaj$527$1...@blue-new.rahul.net>, fa...@rahul.net says...
> A good article by someone who's had his annual salary drop from $43k/year
> to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:
So instead he gets 0 a year. Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"?
> to $34k/year and Hostess wants him to go down to $25k/year:
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