The HELL MACHINE works!!! Was Ground tester or Hypot with 1/0 welding cable?
Ignoramus7016
thumper is a machine that makes high voltage capacitor discharges of
thousands of joules, to find faults in underground buried cable. Mine
is designed to deliver up to 4,062 joules, or approximately the energy
carried by bullets from a burst of assault rifle fire.
See
http://igor.chudov.com/projects/High-Voltage/Hell-Machine-THUMPER/
I thought that it was not working.
Today, a local luminary in the field of coin shrinking, Lichtenstein
figures, and other fun high voltage things visited me and my thumper
machine. I am not mentioning his name out of respect for his privacy,
and feel very highly about him.
Anyway.
After I dragged its two pieces into my garage, we looked at the
machine and opened up the covers. Some interesting things came to
light.
1. It was a 25 kV DC machine, with two contactors: a safety grounding
contactor to ground the caps when power is off, and the thumping
contactor to connect capacitors to output cable.
2.It has a variac for varying output voltage of the high voltage
transformer. The high voltage is rectified by a center tapped
rectifier (two diodes).
3. It has a limiter arrow on the voltage display that causes the
output contactor to close when capacitor voltage reaches the limiter.
4. It also has a DISCHARGE button that can cause the discharge
contactor to close at operator request.
5. My machine did not work because the limiter (whose purpose I did
not understand) was set to zero.
After he left, I wired up the machine and tried to use it. I made a
primitive spark gap out of two large copper pieces. As it turned out,
it works great. It charges the caps and when it reaches the preset
voltage, it discharges into a spark gap.I only tried it at up to 10
kV.
Its output of 4k joules is supposed to be enough to shrink coins.
i
Harold and Susan Vordos
"Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
news:i9rvr....@news.alt.net...
snip---
> Its output of 4k joules is supposed to be enough to shrink coins.
Shrink coins?
Explanation, please.
Harold
Ignoramus7016
See Bert Hickman's highly instructive page
http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html
He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
less.
The energy that my thumper can attain is roughly equal to dropping one
ton of weight, from the height of 1.5 ft.
i
Paul E. Schoen
"Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
This was certainly impressive and informative. I find high current and high
voltage effects fascinating. The test sets I design will generate up to
about 100,000 amperes AC for several tenths of a second, but the only
effects I have seen are jumping cables and vibrating metal objects in the
magnetic field. Thanks for the informative link.
Paul
Harold and Susan Vordos
"Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:41:21 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos <vor...@tds.net>
wrote:
> >
> > "Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:i9rvr....@news.alt.net...
> > snip---
> >> Its output of 4k joules is supposed to be enough to shrink coins.
> >
> > Shrink coins?
> >
> > Explanation, please.
>
> See Bert Hickman's highly instructive page
>
> http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html
>
> He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
> roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
> less.
Thanks for the link, although I'm somewhat a skeptic. I didn't read all
the information, so I may be bringing up a subject that was well addressed.
In my mind, the laws of physics dictate that metals will occupy a given
amount of space----a result of their atomic structure. In other words,
their specific weight isn't up for grabs, it's a constant. I'm having a
hard time imagining that coins shrink unless they lose weight in the
process, or one of the dimensions is increased. Are the coins thicker than
they were before being shrunk? Please bear in mind I'm not an educated
person------I was lucky to escape high school by graduating.
>
> The energy that my thumper can attain is roughly equal to dropping one
> ton of weight, from the height of 1.5 ft.
There are mechanical presses that are capable of delivering tonnage that
makes that look like nothing, and they don't have the ability to compress
metals, at least as I understand it. I am impressed with the power of the
thumper, but I still have my doubts about shrinking metals. with the
exception of my comments, above. Otherwise, seems to me you could duplicate
the specific gravity of gold that way. The way I understand it, you can do
that only by creating gold, or an alloy of other elements that, combined,
equaling the specific gravity (19.3. Platinum and something, for example).
Am I missing something?
Harold
azotic
"Harold and Susan Vordos" <vor...@tds.net> wrote in message
news:yCrih.23$G23...@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
Hello Harold
One of pix explains what happens:
"The thickness proportionally increases as its diameter is reduced. A
shrunken coin's volume and mass remain the same, so its density remains
unchanged. There's no "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" magic involved in coin
shrinking."
As far as i know metals can be compressed for a short time using high
explosive lenses, the mass remains the same
but the density is increased for a few milliseconds.
Best Regards
Tom.
clu...@lycos.com
>He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
>roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
>less.
How about before and after pictures along with the set up prior to
'thumping'?
Curious minds need satisfying.
Wes S
Ignoramus17570
>
> "Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ia0r9.g...@news.alt.net...
>> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:41:21 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos
>> <vor...@tds.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:i9rvr....@news.alt.net...
>>> snip---
>>>> Its output of 4k joules is supposed to be enough to shrink coins.
>>>
>>> Shrink coins?
>>>
>>> Explanation, please.
>>
>> See Bert Hickman's highly instructive page
>>
>> http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html
>>
>> He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
>> roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
>> less.
>>
>> The energy that my thumper can attain is roughly equal to dropping one
>> ton of weight, from the height of 1.5 ft.
>>
>> i
>
> This was certainly impressive and informative. I find high current and high
> voltage effects fascinating. The test sets I design will generate up to
> about 100,000 amperes AC for several tenths of a second, but the only
> effects I have seen are jumping cables and vibrating metal objects in the
> magnetic field. Thanks for the informative link.
I remember, you are in the circuit breaker testing business...
i
Ignoramus17570
The coins become smaller in diameter, but thicker, the volume stays
same.
Electric current and magentic field acts like a press, changing form
but not volume.
>> The energy that my thumper can attain is roughly equal to dropping one
>> ton of weight, from the height of 1.5 ft.
>
> There are mechanical presses that are capable of delivering tonnage that
> makes that look like nothing, and they don't have the ability to compress
> metals, at least as I understand it. I am impressed with the power of the
> thumper, but I still have my doubts about shrinking metals. with the
> exception of my comments, above. Otherwise, seems to me you could duplicate
> the specific gravity of gold that way. The way I understand it, you can do
> that only by creating gold, or an alloy of other elements that, combined,
> equaling the specific gravity (19.3. Platinum and something, for example).
> Am I missing something?
Yes, there is no magic like in Superman movies, there are very strong
forces that change the shape of the coin and that's all.
I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
> Harold
>
>
Ignoramus17570
I will try to do something... I need to get some 3/4" plywood to make
a box to contain parts of coils that would fly like shrapnel. Will try
to whip something up this weekend.
i
Bert Hickman
<snip>
>
> I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
> which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
> works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
> plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
>
>
Igor,
You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.
Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
systems.
Bert
--
-------------------------------------------------------
We specialize in UNIQUE items! Coins shrunk by huge
magnetic fields, our "Captured Lightning" Lichtenberg
Figure sculptures, and Out-of-Print technical Books.
Visit Stoneridge Engineering: http://www.teslamania.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Ignoramus17570
> Ignoramus17570 wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
>> which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
>> works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
>> plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
>>
>>
>
> Igor,
>
> You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
> since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
> tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
> be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
> the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
> coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
> night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.
Bert, thank you for this advice and also for visiting and helping me
figure out howw this machine works. As well as for pointing out that
strain relief damage is inconsequential.
I am very grateful.
> Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
> they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
> systems.
Thanks. I will see what is the best and most sensible thing to do to
put something safe enough together.
i
Don Bruder
Bert Hickman <bert_h...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Ignoramus17570 wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
> > which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
> > works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
> > plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
> >
> >
>
> Igor,
>
> You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
> since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
> tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
> be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
> the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
> coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
> night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.
>
> Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
> they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
> systems.
>
> Bert
5Kfps??!?!? Holy crap! A typical factory issue round out of a .30-06
(Hardly anybody's idea of a "toy" gun) is only clocking about 3Kfps!
Even handloaders "pumping it up a bit" don't go too far beyond 3200fps.
I'm afraid to do the math to figure out the energy a typical 150 grain
.30-06 bullet would have at 5Kfps! Talk about "red mist"...
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Ignoramus17570
outdoor starter, it is a box made of painted steel that is quite
heavy, maybe 3/32" thick or even 1/8". I will make pictures tonight, I
think that it will be a quick solution to the problem.
i
Ignoramus17570
Don, if I recall correctly, we share interest in guns. So let me throw
in some numbers.
The maximum voltage on the scale of this thumper is 25 kV DC. I have
not tried reaching this voltage, or anything close to it, yesterday,
but let's assume that it is a 25 kV machine.
Its capacitance is 13 uF (a little bit more, like 13.37) measured with
my Amprobe multimeter.
According to formula E = Cv^2/2, the energy in this machins is 4,062
joules.
Now consider a powerful rifle such as 30-06. Its bullet weighs 10
grams and flies out of the muzzle at 850 meters per second.
The energy of this bullet would be 0.010 * 850*850/2 = 3,612 joules.
So, the energy released by my thumper is greater than that in a 30-06
bullet.
i
Gunner
<bert_h...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Ignoramus17570 wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
>> which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
>> works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
>> plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
>>
>>
>
>Igor,
>
>You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
>since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
>tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
>be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
>the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
>coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
>night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.
>
>Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
>they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
>systems.
>
>Bert
This btw..is the same documented feature of the M67 hand grenade of
current deployment. A coil of wire that is exploded to product
fragments and has an effective range of 15 meters
Gunner
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton
martin griffith
Ignoramus7016 <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote:
>This is in regards to a thumper that followed me home last week. A
>thumper is a machine that makes high voltage capacitor discharges of
>thousands of joules, to find faults in underground buried cable. Mine
>is designed to deliver up to 4,062 joules, or approximately the energy
>carried by bullets from a burst of assault rifle fire.
>
>See
>
>http://igor.chudov.com/projects/High-Voltage/Hell-Machine-THUMPER/
>
maybe this......
http://static.flickr.com/109/280106906_bd9f5cc7cc_o.jpg
martin
Ignoramus17570
that was hilarious!
i
Gunner
<mart_in_medina@ya___.es> wrote:
Marvelous!
Harold and Susan Vordos
"azotic" <azo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:5Xsih.25589$uX4....@newsfe09.phx...
snip--
> Hello Harold
>
> One of pix explains what happens:
>
> "The thickness proportionally increases as its diameter is reduced. A
> shrunken coin's volume and mass remain the same, so its density remains
> unchanged. There's no "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" magic involved in coin
> shrinking."
Thanks, Tom. I read the link in haste-----and missed some of it----reading
only that in one instance, there was some thickening around the rim area.
I assume, after reading what you posted, that in that instance the coin
shrunk disproportionately, but they all get thicker. I should have spent
more time reading, but I'm spread thin. sigh!
>
> As far as i know metals can be compressed for a short time using high
> explosive lenses, the mass remains the same
> but the density is increased for a few milliseconds.
That makes sense. The forces that keep the atom together are known to be
quite powerful. You can bump them, but not permanently deform them. Those
electrons demand their space.
Harold
Harold and Susan Vordos
"Ignoramus17570" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote in message
news:iasnc.4...@news.alt.net...
snip---
> I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
> which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
> works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
> plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
Thanks, Iggy. I'd really enjoy having one of them, and wowing the folks I
know. This is all new to me, and sort of magic--gee wiz stuff. I'd never
heard of it before.
Harold
Ignoramus17570
I will try to find an empty coke can, if so, I will try to crush one
tonight. That's relatively easy and requires less energy.
http://members.tripod.com/extreme_skier/cancrusher/
If I make a strongbox from some piece of junk electrical enclosure
lying next to my boat, I will try to shrink coins as well. I will keep
you in mind.
i
clu...@lycos.com
Cool! Make sure you wear eye protection or even better flip the
switch from a remote point.
Wes S
clu...@lycos.com
>maybe this......
>http://static.flickr.com/109/280106906_bd9f5cc7cc_o.jpg
>
Oh would I love to put a few of those stickers on some machines at
work!
Wes S
Ignoramus17570
Ditto
i
Ecnerwal
Ignoramus7016 <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote:
> After he left, I wired up the machine and tried to use it. I made a
> primitive spark gap out of two large copper pieces. As it turned out,
> it works great. It charges the caps and when it reaches the preset
> voltage, it discharges into a spark gap.I only tried it at up to 10
> kV.
My recall of time spent in labs where we discharged large capacitor
banks into spark gaps includes X-Ray exposure badges being worn - so you
might want to limit the amount of "amusing sparks" you go around
producing in the open...
The Variac on HV supply AC input is a standard technique for being able
to charge things up slowly and not overload the supply. Standard
operating procedure would be to start with it at zero, crank it up
slowly while monitoring capacitor voltage.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
bobh
> This is in regards to a thumper that followed me home last week. A
> thumper is a machine that makes high voltage capacitor discharges of
> thousands of joules, to find faults in underground buried cable. Mine
> is designed to deliver up to 4,062 joules, or approximately the energy
> carried by bullets from a burst of assault rifle fire.
>
This sounds like the power supply for a very cool rail gun!
http://www.powerlabs.org/railgun.htm
Bob
Ignoramus17570
Ecnerwal, that is exactly how it is done on this machine. Good point
about x rays... I will have to read up on it... Energy of electrons
that hit TV screens is 20 kV...
i
Ignoramus17570
It would require about 4 times more capacitors... (16 kJ)
i
Michael A. Terrell
What happens if you try to crush a full Coke can? ;-)
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Ignoramus17570
joules. Explosion was as loud as a gunshot. I seriously regret
forgetting to wear hearing protection.
i
Bert Hickman
As long as your experiments are performed in air at STP, X-rays will not
be a problem. X-ray generation can become a problem when using vacuum
switches, vacuum capacitors, or other high vacuum devices (Klystrons, HV
vacuum tube rectifiers, or hard tube modulators) at high voltages. Film
badges will not be necessary when working with your equipment and
experiments.
Bruce L. Bergman
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> What happens if you try to crush a full Coke can? ;-)
Big Kersploosh! all over. It's been done, and filmed.
--<< Bruce >>--
Bert Hickman
> Ignoramus17570 wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:22:07 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos <vor...@tds.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Ignoramus17570" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:iasnc.4...@news.alt.net...
>>>snip---
>>>
>>>
>>>>I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
>>>>which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
>>>>works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
>>>>plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks, Iggy. I'd really enjoy having one of them, and wowing the folks I
>>>know. This is all new to me, and sort of magic--gee wiz stuff. I'd never
>>>heard of it before.
>>
>>I will try to find an empty coke can, if so, I will try to crush one
>>tonight. That's relatively easy and requires less energy.
>>
>>http://members.tripod.com/extreme_skier/cancrusher/
>>
>>If I make a strongbox from some piece of junk electrical enclosure
>>lying next to my boat, I will try to shrink coins as well. I will keep
>>you in mind.
>>
>>i
>
>
>
>
> What happens if you try to crush a full Coke can? ;-)
http://members.iinet.net.au/~pterren/misc1.htm#Can%20crushing :^)
Ignoramus17570
Thanks Bert... I exploded a wire today... It was LOUD... The sound was
even sharper than a gunshot. I only have two more of such little steel
wires...
i
Ignoramus17570
I like the wood burning picture, seems very simple, though wet wood
could explode under a pulsed discharge.
i
Harold and Susan Vordos
"Bert Hickman" <bert_h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:KJSdnSGOxLKl_BbY...@comcast.com...
snip-----
>
> As long as your experiments are performed in air at STP, X-rays will not
> be a problem. X-ray generation can become a problem when using vacuum
> switches, vacuum capacitors, or other high vacuum devices (Klystrons, HV
> vacuum tube rectifiers, or hard tube modulators) at high voltages. Film
> badges will not be necessary when working with your equipment and
> experiments.
Bert,
Could you explain (in terms I might understand) why a vacuum makes a
difference?
TIA
Harold
Bert Hickman
Hi Harold,
X-rays occur when charged particles (such as electrons) are accelerated
to high velocities by means of a high voltage electric field and then
rapidly decelerated by colliding with matter.
In air at STP, free electrons tend to frequently collide with air
molecules or combine with neutral oxygen or water vapor molecules to
form negative ions (called electron capture). The average lifetime of
free electrons in air at STP is only about 11 billionths of a second.
Because of collisions and electron capture, free electrons in air cannot
reach velocities sufficient to generate potentially dangerous X-rays,
even in the presence of very high voltages and high electrical fields.
In a vacuum, free electrons can be accelerated by the applied HV field
without colliding with many gas molecules. They can be accelerated to
much higher velocities before eventually colliding with an electrode or
the walls of the container holding the vacuum. Higher electron
velocities translate into higher energy X-rays. Voltages of 10-20 kV and
above can generate "soft" X-rays, and higher voltages will generate
"harder" (more penetrating and more dangerous) X-rays.
Gunner
Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty EMP
pulse?
Harold and Susan Vordos
snip---
>
> Hi Harold,
>
> X-rays occur when charged particles (such as electrons) are accelerated
> to high velocities by means of a high voltage electric field and then
> rapidly decelerated by colliding with matter.
>
> In air at STP, free electrons tend to frequently collide with air
> molecules or combine with neutral oxygen or water vapor molecules to
> form negative ions (called electron capture). The average lifetime of
> free electrons in air at STP is only about 11 billionths of a second.
> Because of collisions and electron capture, free electrons in air cannot
> reach velocities sufficient to generate potentially dangerous X-rays,
> even in the presence of very high voltages and high electrical fields.
>
> In a vacuum, free electrons can be accelerated by the applied HV field
> without colliding with many gas molecules. They can be accelerated to
> much higher velocities before eventually colliding with an electrode or
> the walls of the container holding the vacuum. Higher electron
> velocities translate into higher energy X-rays. Voltages of 10-20 kV and
> above can generate "soft" X-rays, and higher voltages will generate
> "harder" (more penetrating and more dangerous) X-rays.
>
> Bert
Thanks, Bert. I even understood it! :-)
Nicely done..
Interesting that air alone changes the behavior.
Harold
Winfield Hill
>
> The maximum voltage on the scale of this thumper is 25 kV DC.
> I have not tried reaching this voltage, or anything close to it,
> yesterday, but let's assume that it is a 25 kV machine.
It's likely not, since most machines employ meter ranges that go
20 to 25% past their maximum operating range. I suggest you pull
one of the capacitors and examine its nameplate rating, or get
its part number and call Maxwell (I saw your caps nice orange
color) to find out the rating. You'll not want to operate your
capacitors past say 80% of their rating, if you want them to
enjoy a nice long life, right?
Another suggestion: clean those insulators! Better yet, clean
the whole machine! Dirt and grime may look right, and go well
with a welder, but 20kV gear should be nice and clean, IMHO.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Ignoramus17570
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:49:12 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty EMP
> pulse?
>
My guess is that I would need to pass a current pulse through a coil
wound around magnetic core, and placed inthe focus of a paraboloid
(like the reflector found on some electric heaters with exposed
heating coil).
i
Ignoramus24570
Win, I will do as you say. By the way, following your advice, I did
clean the welder relatively thoroughly.
i
Gunner
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:18:14 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:49:12 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
> Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty EMP
>> pulse?
>>
>
>My guess is that I would need to pass a current pulse through a coil
>wound around magnetic core, and placed inthe focus of a paraboloid
>(like the reflector found on some electric heaters with exposed
>heating coil).
>
>i
See if you can kill a computer or car stereo from a distance.
Ignoramus24570
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:23:54 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:18:14 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:49:12 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>> Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty EMP
>>> pulse?
>>>
>>
>>My guess is that I would need to pass a current pulse through a coil
>>wound around magnetic core, and placed inthe focus of a paraboloid
>>(like the reflector found on some electric heaters with exposed
>>heating coil).
>>
>>i
>
>
> See if you can kill a computer or car stereo from a distance.
>
That's highly illegal, plus I do not have spare computers of car
stereos...
i
Gunner
No (THUMP THUMP) neighbor (Thump THUMP) kids (Thump Thump) in the
(THUMP THUMPTHUMPTHUMP) neighborhood?
Shrug..just a thought. Though I didnt think it was illegal to kill
your own computer...or how anyone could prove you silenced a (thump
thump) car stereo from a distanc.
Ian Malcolm
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:39:16 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:23:54 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:18:14 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:49:12 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
>>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty <snipped>
>>>
>>>>pulse?
>>>>
>>>
>>>My guess is that I would need to pass a current pulse through a coil
>>>wound around magnetic core, and placed inthe focus of a paraboloid
>>>(like the reflector found on some electric heaters with exposed
>>>heating coil).
>>>
>>>i
>>
>>
>>See if you can kill a computer or car stereo from a distance.
>>
>
>
> That's highly illegal, plus I do not have spare computers of car
> stereos...
>
> i
The magnetic core would saturate and probably result in a *less*
effective far field effect. Ideally you would need to radially
compress the work coil virtually instantly at the moment of peak current
. . .
I am sure that Gunner could come up with something suitable and some way
of setting it off. If you took a road trip to Gunnerland, you could
both have some fun.
As to test objects, Personal stereos (of the dirt cheap FM radio
variety) and old mobiles would be worthy targets and cheaper than car
stereos and computers.
If you want to video this, I suggest you put in a bid for a sheet of the
Mumetal currently on RCM and make a box with a fine mesh copper screen
over the lens and copper braid gaskets at all joints or maybe use an old
hand cranked movie camera. I'm sure the video would be popular . . .
N.B I understand that *any* high energy discharge that does not disrupt
the work coil is very hard on the capacitor bank owing to the rapid
resonant current reversal. You might want to bear this in mind and make
sure that the coil is always the sacrificial element if you are
operating anywhere near full power.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- &
[dot]=.
*Warning* SPAM TRAP set in header, Use email address in sig. if you must.
Don Bruder
Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:23:54 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:18:14 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:49:12 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
> >><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
> > Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty EMP
> >> pulse?
> >>
> >
> >My guess is that I would need to pass a current pulse through a coil
> >wound around magnetic core, and placed inthe focus of a paraboloid
> >(like the reflector found on some electric heaters with exposed
> >heating coil).
> >
> >i
>
>
> See if you can kill a computer or car stereo from a distance.
Come up with a reliabel car-stereo killer, and I'd be looking for ways
to buy/build one...
(Gawd, how I wouldn't love to hit one of those "thud cars" with
something like that... Preferably in a manner that lets them *KNOW*
they've just had someone deliberately destroy their audio-blight)
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Ignoramus24570
Ian, I definitely would not do anything where substantial EMI is
generated.
As for sacrificial elements, I think that it is a matter of putting
together a simple Excel spreadsheet to put in elements that would self
destroy closer to the end of the first cycle before reversal.
i
Michael A. Terrell
>
> In article <616oo2pdc26p3ok0f...@4ax.com>,
> Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:23:54 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
> > <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:18:14 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:49:12 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
> > >><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
> > > Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty EMP
> > >> pulse?
> > >>
> > >
> > >My guess is that I would need to pass a current pulse through a coil
> > >wound around magnetic core, and placed inthe focus of a paraboloid
> > >(like the reflector found on some electric heaters with exposed
> > >heating coil).
> > >
> > >i
> >
> >
> > See if you can kill a computer or car stereo from a distance.
>
> Come up with a reliabel car-stereo killer, and I'd be looking for ways
> to buy/build one...
If Iggy could sneak up on the vehicle and clamp a lead to each
bumper, it should kill all the electronics and maybe the idiots inside.
Ignoramus24570
>
> If Iggy could sneak up on the vehicle and clamp a lead to each
> bumper, it should kill all the electronics and maybe the idiots inside.
>
>
I am not so sure that it is actually true. aftet all, the car should
act as a faraday cage and conduct electricity with its shell (assuming
it is made of steel).
i
Larry Jaques
<gunner...@lightspeed.net> quickly quoth:
>On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:23:54 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:18:14 GMT, Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:49:12 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus17570
>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.17570.invalid> wrote:
>> Now what does it take to use your supply to generate a very nasty EMP
>>> pulse?
>>>
>>
>>My guess is that I would need to pass a current pulse through a coil
>>wound around magnetic core, and placed inthe focus of a paraboloid
>>(like the reflector found on some electric heaters with exposed
>>heating coil).
>>
>>i
>
>
>See if you can kill a computer or car stereo from a distance.
His wife, kid, and all his neighbors will love him for that one.
"Hello, Snake Farm Insurance? Am I covered for EMP pulse generation?"
"No, and we've notified the DHS for you. Have a nice day."
"Oops!"
--
It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
--Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)
Larry Jaques
Bruder <dak...@sonic.net> quickly quoth:
>Come up with a reliabel car-stereo killer, and I'd be looking for ways
>to buy/build one...
>
>(Gawd, how I wouldn't love to hit one of those "thud cars" with
>something like that... Preferably in a manner that lets them *KNOW*
>they've just had someone deliberately destroy their audio-blight)
Has anyone ever shot a car with a Taser? I wonder if that would do it.
Michael A. Terrell
A Faraday shield is a complete enclosure. with bonded seams. Cars
are a pile of barely connected, floating metal and plastic pieces. At
the very least, it would be so magnetized that an compass would never
work right, again.
BTW, the Shuttle just went over, with its double "Sonic Boom" ;-)
Ignoramus24570
> A Faraday shield is a complete enclosure. with bonded seams. Cars
> are a pile of barely connected, floating metal and plastic pieces. At
> the very least, it would be so magnetized that an compass would never
> work right, again.
Maybe, I certain am not sure.
> BTW, the Shuttle just went over, with its double "Sonic Boom" ;-)
that was my thumper...
i
Steve W.
Oh it would work, probably work VERY well. One of the major things you
learn about welding on a newer vehicle with a modern computer system is
to pull the computer wiring to avoid blowing it up when you weld on the
chassis. Seen it happen a couple times. Person will want to weld in some
new steel on a quarter panel, grind and fit the new panel. Ground the
welder and strike an arc and when your done welding the car won't run
any more. OOPS.
--
Steve W.
Michael A. Terrell
Then it landed at the cape.
Father Haskell
> "The thickness proportionally increases as its diameter is reduced. A
> shrunken coin's volume and mass remain the same, so its density remains
> unchanged. There's no "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids!" magic involved in coin
> shrinking."
That's the opposite of what happens to pennies on rairoad tracks,
or better yet, what happens to a _solid_ copper (not clad) penny
after several trips through a jeweler's rolling mill -- you end up
with a strip of copper foil up to three feet long. You can keep
up the torture for as long as you like without having to anneal
the penny. Coin alloys are amazingly malleable.
Has anyone tried sending a coin through a shrinking machine
more than once?
Bert Hickman
Yes...
The first time through, slight "ripples" are formed along the rim of the
coin due to slight force imbalances during the shrinking process. The
2nd time through, these ripples become greatly accentuated (perhaps
"kink instability"?), resulting in some really ugly looking coins. Also,
the first time through, the coin becomes significantly work hardened as
well as becoming thicker, so that during the 2nd pass through there's
much less "shrinkage" for a given energy level.
Harold and Susan Vordos
"Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166840329.3...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
snip----
>You can keep
> up the torture for as long as you like without having to anneal
> the penny. Coin alloys are amazingly malleable.
Well, Father, my experience as a refiner of precious metals tends to
disagree with the concept of endless cold working. Even pure gold gets
tough after being rolled a couple times and must be annealed. After all,
that's how brass is made that is sold as half hard. It's rolled cold, and
not annealed.
Annealing is very much a part of rolling the non-ferrous metals, regardless
of the alloy. Pennies were made of 95% copper, and a combined 5% of tin
and zinc. While malleable, it work hardens just like any other alloy.
Harold
Gunner
<ab...@freeserveNOSPAM.net.invalid> wrote:
From what little I know about the subject..ahum..er..an EMP "bomb"
builds up a seriously strong magnetic field in a sacrificial coil, in
just milliseconds, then explodes the coil, leaving no place for the
energy to go, but as radiated energy in a very large and strong pulse.
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Gunner
<bert_h...@comcast.net> wrote:
> The
>2nd time through, these ripples become greatly accentuated (perhaps
>"kink instability"?),
Ahha!! Now THAT explains West Hollywood!!
One of the few places on the planet where one can see a diminuative
asian lady in black leather leading a 300lbs white guy in a leather
speedo, around on a leash....
Cydrome Leader
>
> "Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ia0r9.g...@news.alt.net...
>> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:41:21 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos <vor...@tds.net>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > "Ignoramus7016" <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:i9rvr....@news.alt.net...
>> > snip---
>> >> Its output of 4k joules is supposed to be enough to shrink coins.
>> >
>> > Shrink coins?
>> >
>> > Explanation, please.
>>
>> See Bert Hickman's highly instructive page
>>
>> http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html
>>
>> He showed me his shrunken coins, that was amazing. My machine can
>> roughly shrink a quarter to a size of nickel, his can shrink it even
>> less.
>
> Thanks for the link, although I'm somewhat a skeptic. I didn't read all
> the information, so I may be bringing up a subject that was well addressed.
> In my mind, the laws of physics dictate that metals will occupy a given
> amount of space----a result of their atomic structure. In other words,
> their specific weight isn't up for grabs, it's a constant. I'm having a
> hard time imagining that coins shrink unless they lose weight in the
> process, or one of the dimensions is increased. Are the coins thicker than
> they were before being shrunk? Please bear in mind I'm not an educated
> person------I was lucky to escape high school by graduating.
coin crushers do work, I operate one. The metal is not compacted into
nowhere. the crushed coins do get thicker. A crushed quarter sounds like
hard plastic when dropped on a table though. It's a peculiar sound for
metal.
Cydrome Leader
> Just exploded a very thin steel wire at 12 kV. About 936
> joules. Explosion was as loud as a gunshot. I seriously regret
> forgetting to wear hearing protection.
>
> i
Um, what did you expect to happen?
joseph2k
> In article <qKqdnXh0SYzbNhfY...@comcast.com>,
> Bert Hickman <bert_h...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Ignoramus17570 wrote:
>> <snip>
>> >
>> > I will try to shrink some coins (I have a small amount of magnet wire,
>> > which is used up on every attempt due to coils exploding) and if it
>> > works, I will mail one to you. I will need to make a box out of 3/4"
>> > plywood to contain flying coin shrapnels
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Igor,
>>
>> You may want to use steel or aluminum plate on the inside of the box,
>> since high velocity coil fragments tend to shred wood and the blast
>> tends to blow wooden boxes apart. The most dangerous coil fragments will
>> be ejected radially from those areas of the winding that are just above
>> the coin. Also, position yourself at right angles (i.e., along the
>> coil's rotational axis), and distance is your friend. An alternative
>> night be to place sandbags all around the containment box.
>>
>> Don't underestimate the danger posed by these little coil fragments -
>> they've been measured up to 5000 fps on higher power coin shrinking
>> systems.
>>
>> Bert
>
> 5Kfps??!?!? Holy crap! A typical factory issue round out of a .30-06
> (Hardly anybody's idea of a "toy" gun) is only clocking about 3Kfps!
> Even handloaders "pumping it up a bit" don't go too far beyond 3200fps.
>
> I'm afraid to do the math to figure out the energy a typical 150 grain
> .30-06 bullet would have at 5Kfps! Talk about "red mist"...
>
Yes, that is in the range of hypervelocity effects, all projectiles can
become armor piercing, even plastic.
try http://www.wstf.nasa.gov/Hazard/Hyper/Facility.htm
--
JosephKK
Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.
--Schiller
martin griffith
Ignoramus7016 <ignora...@NOSPAM.7016.invalid> wrote:
>This is in regards to a thumper that followed me home last week. A
>thumper is a machine that makes high voltage capacitor discharges of
>thousands of joules, to find faults in underground buried cable. Mine
>is designed to deliver up to 4,062 joules, or approximately the energy
>carried by bullets from a burst of assault rifle fire.
>
>See
>
>http://igor.chudov.com/projects/High-Voltage/Hell-Machine-THUMPER/
>
>I thought that it was not working.
>
FYI have a look at this toy
http://www.gausspistol.com/index.html
martin
Ignoramus32311
Martin, someone did an absolutely fabulous job, I hope that they gave
that person a prize.
i