OT English, serious question
Ignoramus967
at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
already a big help.
My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
equivalent of that for English.
I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
matters.
i
Don Foreman
Take hiim to a public library and introduce him to books. There is a
lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.
Spehro Pefhany
<ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
English, as taught in school, IMHO is not an easy subject to get a
_very_ high mark in. The kid has to put forth a lot of effort to
figure out what the teacher wants to hear and to echo it, and even
then... I'm assuming it's dealing with interpreting novels and that
sort of thing. Actual use of language is improved by talking with
articulate adults and reading most anything at a reasonably high
level, but I doubt that's his limitation (I wouldn't call it a problem
with 92%). Girls of that age seem to do a lot better than boys. Math
and science have a lot less of that BS.
Being able to present people with what they want to hear (even if you
personally disagree) is a useful skill, provided you know when to turn
it off. I would suggest if any tutoring it should involve
examsmanship-- carefully making sure that the student notes down all
the hints that the teacher gives, and covers every point. Have a look
at his tests, he may be losing marks for things that can be very
easily improved (neatness or something like that).
Ignoramus967
Don, we'll go to a library tomorrow. Good idea. The issue is trying to
be on time returning them, but at this age this can finally be a
useful exercise in learning responsibility.
i
Ignoramus967
>
> English, as taught in school, IMHO is not an easy subject to get a
> _very_ high mark in. The kid has to put forth a lot of effort to
> figure out what the teacher wants to hear and to echo it, and even
> then... I'm assuming it's dealing with interpreting novels and that
> sort of thing. Actual use of language is improved by talking with
> articulate adults and reading most anything at a reasonably high
> level, but I doubt that's his limitation (I wouldn't call it a problem
> with 92%). Girls of that age seem to do a lot better than boys. Math
> and science have a lot less of that BS.
>
I am pretty sure that the scores we are discussing involve
standardized, multiple choice tests, so teacher's preferences are not
as importaant as, say, grading homework.
> Being able to present people with what they want to hear (even if
> you personally disagree) is a useful skill, provided you know when
> to turn it off. I would suggest if any tutoring it should involve
> examsmanship-- carefully making sure that the student notes down all
> the hints that the teacher gives, and covers every point. Have a
> look at his tests, he may be losing marks for things that can be
> very easily improved (neatness or something like that).
I will try to learn this a little more, maybe I can get a copy of his
test.
Michael A. Terrell
See if your library has some availible as 'ebooks'. A lot of books
are availible that way, rather than in printed form. Also, their card
catalog should be availible online and show which branch has which books
on their shelves.
If you want any of the classics, try http://www.gutenberg.org. The
baen free library http://www.baen.com/library has some free science
fiction books, too.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
rangerssuck
wrote:
Iggy -
What, exactly, are you concerned about? Does your son have difficulty
expressing what's on his mind? Is it a spelling problem, a grammar
problem, a vocabulary problem or something else? Being in the 92nd
percentile doesn't mean that he got 8 of 100 questions wrong, it means
that, on average, 8 out of 100 kids had a higher score than he had. It
also means that 91 out of 100 kids had a lower score than his.
What in the world is so horrible about that? Good Gawd, the kid is
only nine years old. Give him a chance to grow. Encourage him to read.
Encourage him to write. Encourage him to converse. But most of all,
encourage him to be a nine year old.
If returning books to the library is going to be a problem, try a
second-hand store instead. You can usually get books for 50 cents or
so, and when you're done, just donate them back, or have a yard sale
or something. Locally, I have a Salvation Army and a Goodwill store,
each of which can pretty much be guaranteed to have a wide selection
of things worth reading.
And you never know when the thrift shop is going to have a jig borer
for twenty bucks ;-)
Ignoramus967
> See if your library has some availible as 'ebooks'. A lot of books
> are availible that way, rather than in printed form. Also, their card
> catalog should be availible online and show which branch has which books
> on their shelves.
>
> If you want any of the classics, try http://www.gutenberg.org. The
> baen free library http://www.baen.com/library has some free science
> fiction books, too.
I like the science fiction idea. SF books have better English than a
typical "diary of poop" kids' book. And SF can possibly appeal to his
imagination.
i
Leon Fisk
Ignoramus967 <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
<snip>
>Don, we'll go to a library tomorrow. Good idea. The issue is trying to
>be on time returning them, but at this age this can finally be a
>useful exercise in learning responsibility.
Try visiting some used book sales. It is always a hodgepodge, but you
can find stuff really cheap. Don't need to worry about returning or
damaging the books then. For some upcoming sales in your area see:
http://www.booksalefinder.com/IL.html
A lot of the libraries have ongoing sales too. Ask if they have a used
book sale area if/when you visit. Prices vary, anywhere from 25 cents
to $2-3 for most titles. The site I listed above quite often lists the
prices too. Don't get the idea that you will buy some old books and
resell them, make a killing either. Valuable books are pretty rare
nowadays. There are lots of other people looking and selling books.
Lots of old books are worth maybe a dollar or even less. Try to get
there a few minutes before the sale begins. The good stuff goes fast,
good is objective though, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". You
have to do a lot of browsing, they are usually only sorted by general
subject and that can even be a reach.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
Ignoramus967
> On Jun 9, 3:24?pm, Ignoramus967 <ignoramus...@NOSPAM.967.invalid>
92nd percentile means that 11 out of 12 kids are doing worse than
him. But, I think that he has potential to be better than that.
> What in the world is so horrible about that? Good Gawd, the kid is
> only nine years old. Give him a chance to grow. Encourage him to read.
> Encourage him to write. Encourage him to converse. But most of all,
> encourage him to be a nine year old.
>
> If returning books to the library is going to be a problem, try a
> second-hand store instead. You can usually get books for 50 cents or
> so, and when you're done, just donate them back, or have a yard sale
> or something. Locally, I have a Salvation Army and a Goodwill store,
> each of which can pretty much be guaranteed to have a wide selection
> of things worth reading.
>
> And you never know when the thrift shop is going to have a jig borer
> for twenty bucks ;-)
I agree with most of what you are saying, and in my heart I believe
that we should use the library a lot and suffer and remember to return
those books.
i
karchiba
wrote:
> On 2010-06-09, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > See if your library has some availible as 'ebooks'. A lot of books
> > are availible that way, rather than in printed form. Also, their card
> > catalog should be availible online and show which branch has which books
> > on their shelves.
>
> > If you want any of the classics, tryhttp://www.gutenberg.org. The
> > fiction books, too.
>
> I like the science fiction idea. SF books have better English than a
> typical "diary of poop" kids' book. And SF can possibly appeal to his
> imagination.
>
> i
Iggy:
As I know you, you have the mind of an engineer. And I'm sure that
your son does as well. Math comes easy to us... it's not subjective,
as is English.
When I was in elementary school, while the other kids were studying
the "diary of poop" type books, I was studying Ohm's law. I found
that Science Fiction, when I wanted to read fiction, appealed to my
"engineering side". I'll bet your son will have that same experience.
Good luck,
_kevin
Jim Stewart
> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
I don't think you should do a thing about it. Your
son could be a great writer and still be marked down
for whatever the test creator decided was not above
average for his group. I remember coaching my daughter
on an writing assignment in 4th grade. She came up
with a delightful sentence or two and I remarked that
Steinbeck could not have said it better. The teacher
'corrected' the sentence to a more bland form.
We need people that carry over part of their ethic
style. Look what Joseph Conrad did. An incredible
novelist who didn't speak fluent English until he was
in his twenties.
Just my humble opinion...
Ignoramus967
I think that going to a library more often, discussing books etc,
should not hurt too much.
i
Tim Wescott
> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
Well, there you go. You only had one year for your English skills to
degrade in the presence of all us native speakers, while your kid's been
here for 9!
>
> My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
> first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
> read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
> (good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
> already a big help.
I'm really big on letting the educators be anxious about a kids
progress, and letting the kid be a kid. I'm not at all a fan of huge
testing efforts, because all the important stuff is hard to test for,
and all the tests that can be taught to checks for trivial stuff.
> My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
> discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
> somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
> tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
> equivalent of that for English.
Push him hard enough and he'll never learn!
--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Tim Wescott
Don't make him worry about that -- you worry about that. And remember
that if your library is like the ones I've been to, you have to be
tremendously overdue before you pay for even a fraction of the price of
the book.
cavelamb
"To teach is to learn".
Maybe you could have him teach you?
Not implying anything about your command of the language there, ig.
But it IS a good tactic.
--
Richard Lamb
newshound
> I like the science fiction idea. SF books have better English than a
> typical "diary of poop" kids' book. And SF can possibly appeal to his
> imagination.
>
> i
comes up with extraordinary word games, puns, and turns of phrase that are
hard to describe (can't think of an example for the moment). Structurally,
they are quite simple fantasy novels, and perfectly "clean", so suitable for
the age. They also tend to have a slightly more political or allegorical
message for the older reader.
An old friend of mine used to work with him when he was a local press
officer in the UK nuclear industry. He used to say his job was to say "Leak?
What leak? Oh, *that* leak."
His serious followers are a bit like Trekkies, but they tend to have several
degrees.
newshound
odd bloke, but to my (British) mind, one of the best craftsmen and stylists
of modern English. But I agree with other posters, don't push it. Give him
the opportunity and let him take it from there.
Ignoramus967
> In <vrKdnbiH05Dnd5LR...@giganews.com>, on Wed, 09 Jun 2010
>> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
>> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> mysteries. Matter of fact, during the summer, I'd
> read a couple a day. See if he likes those.
>
> For grammar, you can't beat sentence diagramming.
> ISTR first seeing it around 11.
>
I love both suggestions. I think that he may have read some hardy boys
books (secrets of the old mill comes to mind, at first I thought it
was related to milling machines). I will explore this hardy book
question today.
i
Ignoramus967
I actually agree. I already use him to teach me how to pronounce
words.
i
rangerssuck
wrote:
Perhaps he does have the potential to do better, but (probably) the
worst thing you can do is push him. You can encourage him, of course,
but to push him somewhere he doesn't want to go is almost certainly
going to sour him on reading (and perhaps on learning in general) for
a long time to come.
Our local public library just had its budget slashed by over $200K for
next year. I've always considered my fines more of a donation than a
payment of a fee. It's going to take a lot of late returns to make up
the shortfall.
mattathayde
http://rittercnc.com/metalworking/OT-English-serious-question-242755-.htm
:
-------------------------------------
Ignoramus967 wrote:
> i
so whats wrong with 92%? hes in 4th grade right? thats about the time they
are
doing sentience diagraming and starting to write multiple paragraphs
frequently
so its not just being able to speak well.
sorry if this came off as rude but i hate when people get so obsessed with
grades, just because your kid ends up as the valedictorian doesnt make
them
smart it just means they can repeat on the tests better than anyone else
in
their class.
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Wes
>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>already a big help.
Reading will help a lot. I read lots of books when I was a kid.
I took the SAT test in 1974 or 5 when 750/750 was the limit. I managed a 610 verbal, 590
math without studying for the test. Not stellar results but since I really didn't like
English classes and Trig was the highest level course I'd taken in high school, I don't
think I did terribly bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#1946_test_and_associated_changes
I could have sworn my results had me in the 90+ percentile range but the wiki page says I
was in the 78 percentile. Maybe that 90+ was for students in my high school.
Words pop in to my head and I have to look them up before using them just to make sure I
know the sense of the word. That is from reading all sorts of books as a youngster at the
library as a solution to both my curiousity and a mental refuge from a home life that had
issues.
Most of my mental definitions of words are formed by the context in which I've read a word
used.
As the PSA goes, "Reading is fundamental".
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Wes
>> If you want any of the classics, try http://www.gutenberg.org. The
>> baen free library http://www.baen.com/library has some free science
>> fiction books, too.
>
>I like the science fiction idea. SF books have better English than a
>typical "diary of poop" kids' book. And SF can possibly appeal to his
>imagination.
Scifi has some incredibly good writers. I didn't spend all my time in the 62X section of
the library as a kid. :)
Tim Wescott
> On 2010-06-09, Spehro Pefhany<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>
>> English, as taught in school, IMHO is not an easy subject to get a
>> _very_ high mark in. The kid has to put forth a lot of effort to
>> figure out what the teacher wants to hear and to echo it, and even
>> then... I'm assuming it's dealing with interpreting novels and that
>> sort of thing. Actual use of language is improved by talking with
>> articulate adults and reading most anything at a reasonably high
>> level, but I doubt that's his limitation (I wouldn't call it a problem
>> with 92%). Girls of that age seem to do a lot better than boys. Math
>> and science have a lot less of that BS.
>>
>
> I am pretty sure that the scores we are discussing involve
> standardized, multiple choice tests, so teacher's preferences are not
> as importaant as, say, grading homework.
Then it's the preference of a committee. Oh joy.
>> Being able to present people with what they want to hear (even if
>> you personally disagree) is a useful skill, provided you know when
>> to turn it off. I would suggest if any tutoring it should involve
>> examsmanship-- carefully making sure that the student notes down all
>> the hints that the teacher gives, and covers every point. Have a
>> look at his tests, he may be losing marks for things that can be
>> very easily improved (neatness or something like that).
>
> I will try to learn this a little more, maybe I can get a copy of his
> test.
Do. Try not to get too worked up when you see it.
Ignoramus967
> Ignoramus967 <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>
>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>already a big help.
>
>
> Reading will help a lot. I read lots of books when I was a kid.
>
> I took the SAT test in 1974 or 5 when 750/750 was the limit. I managed a 610 verbal, 590
> math without studying for the test. Not stellar results but since I really didn't like
> English classes and Trig was the highest level course I'd taken in high school, I don't
> think I did terribly bad.
This is a very good score.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#1946_test_and_associated_changes
>
> I could have sworn my results had me in the 90+ percentile range but the wiki page says I
> was in the 78 percentile. Maybe that 90+ was for students in my high school.
>
> Words pop in to my head and I have to look them up before using them
> just to make sure I know the sense of the word. That is from
> reading all sorts of books as a youngster at the library as a
> solution to both my curiousity and a mental refuge from a home life
> that had issues.
>
> Most of my mental definitions of words are formed by the context in which I've read a word
> used.
>
> As the PSA goes, "Reading is fundamental".
I think so too. We read so much from reading, though we may not
remember where we learned something.
i
Roger Shoaf
"Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
news:vrKdnbiH05Dnd5LR...@giganews.com...
> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>
> first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
> read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
> (good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
> already a big help.
>
> discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
> somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
> tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
> equivalent of that for English.
>
> I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
> matters.
>
> i
First off I would not worry too much about the current verbal scores, the
top 8% is pretty good.
But with a 10 year old that just finished the 4th grade with an award for
reading skills what we did was to foster their love of reading from a very
young age. As an example every night we would read them (He has a twin
sister.)two books allowing them to choose the titles. After I got tired of
the same books over and over I would look to diversify things a bit. I
started with the atlas of the United States and allowed them to each pick a
state. I would then in my own corny accent read them each states
description, famous people and all of the other information. I would pay
special attention to any question they would ask and parlay that into other
bedtime reading. As an example my daughter once asked why was Jack London
famous? that started stories by Jack London.
When my kids entered kindergarten, the exit standards were that they would
know their shapes and colors, count to 30 etc. My kids not only knew that,
but also could tell you each of the state capitols and could count to 100 by
ones, twos fives and tens.
We would also go out for some ice cream and I would work on math with them
by explaining that if they understood addition then they already understood
multiplication showing them how they could figure out any multiplication
problem just by understanding that the problem was just a step up from the
addition.
While I succeeded in allowing my son to have a really good accuracy in
solving his math problems at school, he has refused to memorize his
multiplication tables so his computation speed is not where it should be.
I suspect that each person has some slightly different way of thinking about
concepts. If your son does well in math, then he will do well in language
as math is a language.
The library is a great thing to get the kid to learn to love. Once they get
their nose into books they never stop.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
cavelamb
> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>
> My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
> first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
> read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
> (good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
> already a big help.
>
> My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
> discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
> somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
> tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
> equivalent of that for English.
>
> I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
> matters.
>
> i
My first try hasn't shown up yet, so I'll try again.
It said...
"To teach is to learn".
Have him teach you.
Not that there is anything wrong with your command of the language, ig.
But it is a good tactic.
Someone mentioned diagramming sentences.
That would be an excellent place to start.
--
Richard Lamb
Ignoramus967
i
Karl Townsend
"Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
news:vrKdnbiH05Dnd5LR...@giganews.com...
> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
Iggy, just another thought for you. Focus on your son's strengths. Anybody
enjoys becoming excellent at what they are already good at. if he can get a
99% on math, i bet he can understand the function of encoders, how a servo
is like a dc motor, etc. etc. Great engineers are made before they are
teenagers. Not to mention the thrill of working along side dad. I made a
point of doing this with my son starting when he was five. We still work
together 10 or more hours a week. He's 27.
My 2 cents. 92% is good enough
karl
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
news:vrKdnbiH05Dnd5LR...@giganews.com...
> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>
> My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
> first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
> read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
> (good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
> already a big help.
>
> My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
> discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
> somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
> tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
> equivalent of that for English.
>
> I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
> matters.
>
> i
What did they measure? Grammar, comprehension, syntax, vocabulary, spelling,
or what?
See if you can get a copy of what they tested. There's a big difference in
the way to teach parts of speech versus reading comprehension.
--
Ed Huntress
Edward Hennessey
I:
You have to be an example and make the process of learning fun.
Read a book of mutual interest together. Discuss it at or after the
dinner table.
Compare interpretations of what you read. Review contending
editiorials on some
contentious theory or historical event. Any larger library will have
book clubs
where a group reads and has meetings to exchange views on the work,
often resulting
in the suggestion of other notable efforts in the topical area. That
is an organized and
social way that sets deadlines and expectations for a participant like
your son to
adhere to which make for important lessons on structuring.
What collecting, activity or geographic fascinations does he have?
There will surely be
excellent offerings in popular literature for one, a ranging scope of
volumes in the second
and a plethora of travel guides, botanical, ethnographic, zoological
and geological surveys
in the last category for you to both savor. And if you choose to study
some intriguing, accessible
terrain, try to follow that with weekend trips or vacation forays to
employ what you've
absorbed and resolve questions that will engender further reading.
Everyone here loves tools, which--on a conceptual and descriptive
level--makes for a grand definition
of words. The more words you know, the more you can understand and the
more widely
you can think, pivoting on the distinctions words establish that you
otherwise may not have chanced
on. Explain it to him that way. In simple proof of the peril aversion
of language invites, tell him what
happens to the man who blithely signs a contract he can't read.
Ignorance of terms has practical,
often dire, consequences.
Get the boy books on a cd. Offer him an mp3 player as an award to some
defined level of progress and
incentive to more. If he likes science plenty of project books exist
which will serve as your interactive
guide to some fascinating result. Works on crystal growing spring to
mind here.
As your tongue is native to another language, do some translations
with him into English using a
bilingual dictionary. Intuitions on grammar become an inevitable
partner to that. Compare the words for the same
concept or thing in both languages. Get a dictionary of English word
roots and learn the roots together,
moving on to demonstration that many words can be at least
approximately decoded or predictably
figured out with knowledge of the building blocks involved. That
should be a trick which will win recognition
in class.
Libraries are, indeed, temples of knowledge. But it is nice for a
child to claim his own share of the
the good within them. Used books are cheap. Book-of -the-month clubs
must surely still exist where
a kid has the distinctive anticipation of getting a book just for him,
addressed just to him like a real
adult coming to the house on a marked date.
You've had some fine suggestions from everybody, not the least of
which is that a kid is a kid. Again,
we return to the paramount place of "fun". Encourage these pursuits as
a game, contest or exploration and
sooner than later he will find the light for them in himself.
Anyway, something for you to mull along with congratulations on your
obvious concern for your son.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
Ed Huntress
"Wes" <ClutchAtL...@Gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hyVPn.213121$iG7....@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
> Ignoramus967 <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>
>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>already a big help.
>
>
> Reading will help a lot. I read lots of books when I was a kid.
>
> I took the SAT test in 1974 or 5 when 750/750 was the limit.
I'm curious, Wes. Where did you hear that the max scores in '74 or '75 were
750/750? I've never heard this. I thought that they were always 800/800,
until the recent revision of the system into three parts.
--
Ed Huntress
Robert Swinney
It is apparent you are justifiably proud of your son. From what I've read over the years on RCM he
has a dad to be proud of. Don't worry much about percentiles. Ninety-two in one category is
probably a precursor to some other fantastic numbers in categories you aren't even aware of yet.
Push him only with Love. He will find his own path in his own time.
Bob Swinney
"Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
news:F7GdnSkbR842j43R...@giganews.com...
Buerste
"Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>
> My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
> first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
> read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
> (good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
> already a big help.
>
> My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
> discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
> somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
> tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
> equivalent of that for English.
>
> I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
> matters.
>
> i
Make an appointment with his English teacher and get his/her ideas. Who
better to advise?
John
Since you are in Chicago, a bribe to the teacher may be in order to
boost up that percentage. :)
John
Don Foreman
<ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>On 2010-06-09, Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:24:42 -0500, Ignoramus967
>><ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
>>>at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>>>
>>>I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
>>>verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
>>>US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>>>
>>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>>already a big help.
>>>
>>>My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
>>>discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
>>>somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
>>>tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
>>>equivalent of that for English.
>>>
>>>I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
>>>matters.
>>>
>>>i
>>
>> Take hiim to a public library and introduce him to books. There is a
>> lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
>> will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
>> activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.
>
>Don, we'll go to a library tomorrow. Good idea. The issue is trying to
>be on time returning them, but at this age this can finally be a
>useful exercise in learning responsibility.
>
Age 9 is certainly old enough for that. I was a regular patron of the
public library at that age, with no supervision. I had my own library
card. The library was about six blocks from our house, a very easy
walk.
Don Foreman
<ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>On 2010-06-09, Michael A. Terrell <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> See if your library has some availible as 'ebooks'. A lot of books
>> are availible that way, rather than in printed form. Also, their card
>> catalog should be availible online and show which branch has which books
>> on their shelves.
>>
>> If you want any of the classics, try http://www.gutenberg.org. The
>> baen free library http://www.baen.com/library has some free science
>> fiction books, too.
>
>I like the science fiction idea. SF books have better English than a
>typical "diary of poop" kids' book. And SF can possibly appeal to his
>imagination.
>
>i
Sci Fi is good, but there are also some very good adventure stories
for boys. Let him browse and discover for himself.
Don Foreman
<ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>
>I agree with most of what you are saying, and in my heart I believe
>that we should use the library a lot and suffer and remember to return
>those books.
>
>i
In our library system it is possible to renew books online. That may
well be true of your system as well.
cavelamb
Or?
Just go straight to Larry Niven / Jerry Pournelle
Lucifer's Hammer or The Mote in God's Eye.
(or the Man-Kizn Wars series of short stories and novellas)
Not just good scfi, but good literature as well.
Also highly recommended:
Patrick O'Brian's 21 volume series of Aubrey/Maturin
in the days of Iron Men and Wooden Ships.
The movie Master and Commander was taken from these.
Dewey Lambden also did a series in this genre and is excellent
although hard to find.
I blame that, like O'Brian's work, on centralized buyers.
It took them 20 years to figure out what shelf to put O'Brian on.
Is it Adverture?, Historical Fiction?, Literature?
Maybe in another 20 we'll see Lambden on the shelves too.
--
Richard Lamb
Don Foreman
wrote:
I think that's a horrible place to start!
Let that formality and discipline happen at school if it happens at
all.
There is much more to language than structure and rules. Language is
about communication. The best way to learn language is to be exposed
to many good examples of that language well used. It is more likely
to "connect" if reading well-written material becomes an enjoyable way
to spend liesure time. I define "well-written" here as material
that communicates effectively, engages the reader. Most novels are
fraught with grammatical violations. These violations are not usually
accidental; editors are very good at catching grammatial gaffes. They
are used for emphasis or effect or to be colloquial. Davy Crockett
probably said "ain't" now and then, and (horrors) may have even
regarded prepositions as acceptable words to end sentences with...
Edward Hennessey
"Edward Hennessey" <haloOUTz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2cGdnXLcS56Q1o3R...@earthlink.com...
> Libraries are, indeed, temples of knowledge. But it is nice for a
> child to claim his own share of the
> the good within them. Used books are cheap. Book-of -the-month clubs
> must surely still exist where
> a kid has the distinctive anticipation of getting a book just for
> him, addressed just to him like a real
> adult coming to the house on a marked date.
>
Another important point relevant to the above is his book is his.
Pride of possession
reinforces interest. You not only can't write in library books but
that is a particularly
distaseful crime. You can outline, make critical marginalia or
otherwise usefully
annotate your own books. They can be retrieved for study or enjoyment
at any time.
You can mark words and phrases that are particularly gifted...or that
require further thought or a trip to the thesaurus and dictionary.
For that matter, the
first books I would buy the boy would be a Roget's Thesaurus
(thumb-indexed and
conceptually organized) and an unabridged dictionary like Merriam
Webster's or
Random House. Your son might want to check an entry every time he
references it with
the understanding that if he sees a number of checks piling up by a
word or conceptual
cluster of antonyms or synonyms, that might signal memorization should
take an extended
look.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
Larry Jaques
<ClutchAtL...@Gmail.com> wrote the following:
>Ignoramus967 <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>
>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>already a big help.
>
>
>Reading will help a lot. I read lots of books when I was a kid.
Ditto. And when I'd ask Mom or Dad for word definitions, I was
promptly steered to the Websters Hernia Edition dictionary. I later
bought a collegiate paperback dict for my own use, occasionally
spending half an hour at a time reading every word in it. That must
have been 1965 or so, age 11 or 12. It gave me a lot larger
vocabulary than most of my friends, which was fun. Using large words
in front of parents was a hoot, too.
I recommend purchasing dictionaries as gifts for anyone who
continually asks word meanings, pronunciations, or roots/origins.
Also, for furriners (ESL learners) and curious kids. They're
inexpensive and keep on giving to the recipient.
--
Impeach 'em ALL!
----------------------------------------------------
Bill Noble
and venus - not really science fiction, more action fantasy, but eaasy
reading
"Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
news:F_qdnUR5K8A_Z5LR...@giganews.com...
cavelamb
LOL! That's a good one, Davy!
But, as my beloved English Lit professor insisted, you need to know the rules
before you break them.
Sentences are structures.
Diagramming, while not the most fun I ever had, is important.
It's really the only way to express how an expression of a thought is assembled.
How does the sentence work?
Because if it doesn't work the way you want, it won't say what you mean.
--
Richard Lamb
cavelamb
skills. If 10 people read the following sentence:
Two tanker trucks has just overturned in Alaska, spilling a totel of 10,000
gallons of beer onto a highway.
Two would find an error in subject-verb agreement, two would find an error in
spelling, and six would find a sponge and drive north.
- Mike Nichols, columnist
Ed Huntress
"cavelamb" <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Stadnf-7h9934o3R...@earthlink.com...
I assume that a totel is a motel that you tote around with you, eh? Would
you have expected they could hold 10,000 gallons? It's a surprise to me.
--
Ed Huntress
Joe Pfeiffer
grow up enjoying what he wants, and don't push him.
(speaking as the father of a son who was Outstanding Senior in the NMSU
College of Arts and Sciences the semester he graduated with a major in
Computer Science with a supplemental major in Math and who is now in the
PhD program in CS at Purdue, and a daughter who just graduated summa cum
laude in Biology and German at UNM and will be starting in the PhD
program in Neuroscience at the University of Utah in the fall)
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
Joe Pfeiffer
It wasn't. That's when I took the SAT; the range was 200-800.
Roger Shoaf
"Larry Jaques" <lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
news:9qu016dn9f2vkapba...@4ax.com...
>
> Ditto. And when I'd ask Mom or Dad for word definitions, I was
> promptly steered to the Websters Hernia Edition dictionary. I later
> bought a collegiate paperback dict for my own use, occasionally
> spending half an hour at a time reading every word in it. That must
> have been 1965 or so, age 11 or 12. It gave me a lot larger
> vocabulary than most of my friends, which was fun. Using large words
> in front of parents was a hoot, too.
>
> I recommend purchasing dictionaries as gifts for anyone who
> continually asks word meanings, pronunciations, or roots/origins.
> Also, for furriners (ESL learners) and curious kids. They're
> inexpensive and keep on giving to the recipient.
>
I purchased an unabridged dictionary from door to door salesman back when I
had my lockshop. I made it a habit to flip open to a page at random and
highlight any new words or any obscure words or definitions. One I remember
was an alternate definition for occupant was a prostitute.
Gave me a chuckle every time I was tossing out junk mail.
Another idea is to subscribe to several of the on line services like:
http://wordsmith.org/awad/subscribe.html
http://www.drhinternet.net/mw/link.php?M=809303&N=3210&L=4
Both of these are free and quire enjoyable.
--
Roger Shoaf
About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
Roger Shoaf
I suspect something is amiss here. Beer is not transported in tanker
trucks. It might be in kegs, bottles or cans, but never in tanker trucks.
Wine and distilled sprits are shipped in tanker trucks however.
Roger Shoaf
>
.
>
> For that matter, the
> first books I would buy the boy would be a Roget's Thesaurus
> (thumb-indexed and
> conceptually organized) and an unabridged dictionary like Merriam
> Webster's or
> Random House. Your son might want to check an entry every time he
> references it with
> the understanding that if he sees a number of checks piling up by a
> word or conceptual
> cluster of antonyms or synonyms, that might signal memorization should
> take an extended
> look.
What I used to do when I was reading and ran across a word in a book that
was new to me was to make a note of the page in the book where the word was
used and my best guess from the context. When I got the chance later,
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent. I
would look up the word and see how close I came by guessing.
kfvo...@gmail.com
> Ignoramus967 wrote:
> > My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> > at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> > I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
> > verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> > US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>
> son could be a great writer and still be marked down
> for whatever the test creator decided was not above
> average for his group. I remember coaching my daughter
> on an writing assignment in 4th grade. She came up
> with a delightful sentence or two and I remarked that
> Steinbeck could not have said it better. The teacher
> 'corrected' the sentence to a more bland form.
>
> We need people that carry over part of their ethic
> style. Look what Joseph Conrad did. An incredible
> novelist who didn't speak fluent English until he was
> in his twenties.
>
> Just my humble opinion...
At my high school you failed the grammar part of an english test if
you used one coma splice. I've had no regard for english teachers and
their tests since then.
There's nothing wrong with comic books and graphic novels. Around here
the kids are into anime.
Karl
Jim Wilkins
wrote:
> ...
> A better example might be the German rooted
> Minnesotan expressions along the lines of, "You coming
> with?"
Du kommst mit?
I didn't really understand the subtleties of the subjunctive and verb
tenses like the perfective until I studied Latin and then German,
which retain grammatical structures that have been simplified but not
completely lost in English. Have you taught him any русский язык?
jsw
John B. slocomb
<ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>On 2010-06-09, Wes <ClutchAtL...@Gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus967 <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>>already a big help.
Do you speak Russian to him at home? If so, stop using the language
when he is home.. The US Army, and probably others, use the total
emersion system where you either speak the language that you are
learning or go without. If you want a glass at the table you either
say it in Chinese, Russian, whatever, or go without.
Cheers,
John B.
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)
Michael A. Terrell
Steve Ackman wrote:
>
> In <9qu016dn9f2vkapba...@4ax.com>, on Wed, 09 Jun 2010
> 22:53:31 -0700, Larry Jaques, lja...@diversify.invalid wrote:
>
> > Ditto. And when I'd ask Mom or Dad for word definitions, I was
> > promptly steered to the Websters Hernia Edition dictionary. I later
> > bought a collegiate paperback dict for my own use, occasionally
> > spending half an hour at a time reading every word in it. That must
> > have been 1965 or so, age 11 or 12.
>
> the only English station, my parents didn't bother
> bringing the TV. They did, however, bring the
> Encyclopedia Americana and a now unremembered brand of
> your aptly described Hernia dictionary. We lived on
> the beach, so every opportunity was spent outdoors, but
> rainy days, after dark, etc., the Encyclopedia was pretty
> much all there was for entertainment after I'd read the
> Forest Fire Mystery a few times. To me, the dictionary
> was a reference book to be consulted when needed (though
> I did pick pages at random sometimes just to read) while
> the Encycopedia was a fascinating and staggering
> collection of everything I could possibly want to know.
>
> Oh... there was a Navy building on the beach that
> was occupied whenever a tanker was offloading jet fuel.
> One of the things it contained was a TV. Exercise in
> Primary Problem Solving 101. Turns out there _was_ a
> way for scrawny little toe-headed boys to gain illicit
> entry, so we did actually get to see TV once in awhile,
> but at great effort, and with great fear of being caught.
> Getting out took as much time and effort as getting
> in, and we never knew when the Navy guys might show
> up. I don't think there were even Saturday morning
> cartoons. IIRC, AFRTS (almost spells farts! hah!)
> didn't come on until noon. Anyway, the novelty soon
> wore off, and our television adventures soon dwindled
> to rarely, and then to "why bother?"
>
> > It gave me a lot larger
> > vocabulary than most of my friends, which was fun. Using large words
> > in front of parents was a hoot, too.
>
>
> > I recommend purchasing dictionaries as gifts for anyone who
> > continually asks word meanings, pronunciations, or roots/origins.
> > Also, for furriners (ESL learners) and curious kids. They're
> > inexpensive and keep on giving to the recipient.
>
> and thefreelibrary.com to the search engine function
> in their browser.
I was a broadcast Engineer for AFRTS in the early '70s in Alaska.
The radio station was in operation 24/7. The TV station did go on at
noon during the week, but we signed on at 7:00 AM on the weekends. It
took between a half hour to two hours to get everything ready to go on
the air each day. The late sign on during the week was based on most
viewers being on duty, and kids in school. Our Saturday mornings were
cartoons until the newscast at noon.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Larry Jaques
<st...@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com> wrote the following:
>In <9qu016dn9f2vkapba...@4ax.com>, on Wed, 09 Jun 2010
>22:53:31 -0700, Larry Jaques, lja...@diversify.invalid wrote:
>
>> Ditto. And when I'd ask Mom or Dad for word definitions, I was
>> promptly steered to the Websters Hernia Edition dictionary. I later
>> bought a collegiate paperback dict for my own use, occasionally
>> spending half an hour at a time reading every word in it. That must
>> have been 1965 or so, age 11 or 12.
>
> Ages 6-8, I lived in Puerto Rico. Since AFRTS was
>the only English station, my parents didn't bother
>bringing the TV. They did, however, bring the
>Encyclopedia Americana and a now unremembered brand of
>your aptly described Hernia dictionary. We lived on
>the beach, so every opportunity was spent outdoors, but
>rainy days, after dark, etc., the Encyclopedia was pretty
>much all there was for entertainment after I'd read the
>Forest Fire Mystery a few times. To me, the dictionary
>was a reference book to be consulted when needed (though
>I did pick pages at random sometimes just to read) while
>the Encycopedia was a fascinating and staggering
>collection of everything I could possibly want to know.
Yeah, we had the World Book Encyclopedia, from which many a report was
written. It's amazing how quickly they go out of date, isn't it? You
look at the maps ten years later and over thirty countries have
changed names and border boundaries, or so it felt.
> Oh... there was a Navy building on the beach that
>was occupied whenever a tanker was offloading jet fuel.
>One of the things it contained was a TV. Exercise in
>Primary Problem Solving 101. Turns out there _was_ a
>way for scrawny little toe-headed boys to gain illicit
>entry, so we did actually get to see TV once in awhile,
>but at great effort, and with great fear of being caught.
>Getting out took as much time and effort as getting
>in, and we never knew when the Navy guys might show
>up. I don't think there were even Saturday morning
>cartoons. IIRC, AFRTS (almost spells farts! hah!)
>didn't come on until noon. Anyway, the novelty soon
>wore off, and our television adventures soon dwindled
>to rarely, and then to "why bother?"
I don't recall ever having heard of AFRTS until today.
I guess I didn't miss much.
>> I recommend purchasing dictionaries as gifts for anyone who
>> continually asks word meanings, pronunciations, or roots/origins.
>> Also, for furriners (ESL learners) and curious kids. They're
>> inexpensive and keep on giving to the recipient.
>
> Or just teach them how to add thefreedictionary.com
>and thefreelibrary.com to the search engine function
>in their browser.
Nowadays, kids can look up words on their phones. But I still like
giving out paperback dictionaries and saying "When you look up a word,
read all the entries on the page." I consider it to be doing my part
to reduce the quantity of ghastly speech in the world, such as these
ever-lovely words, phrases, mispronunciations, and misspellings:
"try and"
"tempatcher"
"viola"
"there's"
"ect"
"masonary"
"where's it at?"
"to much"
"for her and I"
"Febuary"
"eeeePock"
"less then"
and Buddha knows how many others.
Keep on fighting the good fight!
Ed Huntress
<kfvo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cc34ebde-7823-426b...@34g2000prs.googlegroups.com...
You're being vindicated. The 15th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style has
dropped it's prohibition against comma splices. The other stylebooks will
eventually catch up.
It's about time, since many top fiction writers have been using it for a
half-century. The semicolon is in trouble now. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
Ignoramus28478
>
> "Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
>> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
>> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> enjoys becoming excellent at what they are already good at. if he can get a
> 99% on math, i bet he can understand the function of encoders, how a servo
> is like a dc motor, etc. etc. Great engineers are made before they are
> teenagers. Not to mention the thrill of working along side dad. I made a
> point of doing this with my son starting when he was five. We still work
> together 10 or more hours a week. He's 27.
Karl, this is a TOTALLY great idea. I agree 100%. I try to get him
involved, anywhere where bare 220v wires are not present. He already
knows how to weld, though not too well. I really would like to keep
some deep contact with my kids once they grow up.
i
Jim Wilkins
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 19:41:02 -0500, Ignoramus967
>
> >On 2010-06-09, Wes <ClutchAtLycosDot...@Gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Ignoramus967 <ignoramus...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
> >>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
> >>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
> >>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
> >>>already a big help.
>
> Do you speak Russian to him at home? If so, stop using the language
> when he is home.. The US Army, and probably others, use the total
> emersion system where you either speak the language that you are
> learning or go without. If you want a glass at the table you either
> say it in Chinese, Russian, whatever, or go without.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John B.
> (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)
I learned French in high school by the immersion system but we didn't
use it much outside of class, probably because the teacher was so
intense and demanding we didn't want to be reminded of her. The
college German course was aimed toward engineering majors who needed
to read technical literature. My roommate and I practiced it outside
class, mainly to make private jokes. For me at least there wasn't a
significant difference between the two approaches. When I was
stationed in Germany I was soon able to understand and talk to the
locals, and also a French lady friend.
I'm slowly learning Russian by probably the worst method, self-
teaching without a formal course or feedback from a native speaker. I
don't quite have Erin Andrews' talent for pronouncing those difficult
sounds.
I think the point of the immersion system is to teach someone to speak
a language very quickly. It delayed learning to read and write the
language.
jsw
Ignoramus28478
>
> "Ignoramus967" <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote in message
> news:vrKdnbiH05Dnd5LR...@giganews.com...
>> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
>> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>>
>> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
>> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>>
>> first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>> read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>> (good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>> already a big help.
>>
>> discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
>> somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
>> tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
>> equivalent of that for English.
>>
>> I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
>> matters.
>>
>> i
>
> or what?
I think that mostly comprehension and vocabulary.
> See if you can get a copy of what they tested. There's a big difference in
> the way to teach parts of speech versus reading comprehension.
Yep, I will.
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus28478" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.28478.invalid> wrote in message
news:UsmdndipspeNhYzR...@giganews.com...
You've gotten lots of good tips here about getting him into reading heavily,
and that's a painless route to dealing with both of those issues.
Comprehension ultimately is understanding the meanings and relationships of
words. You can teach that specifically, and have him slow down and pick
statements apart to see what they really mean. Or you can build an easy
facility with it by focused reading. He has to be interested enough in the
subject to care about what the words mean.
Vocabulary is another issue that's easily served by lots of reading of good
material. Diversity in reading helps there. He needs more than a couple of
subjects to get interested in -- preferably, to get passionate about.
Or there are methods, such as "word of the day" routines, that will help. I
think that reading is better. It has additional benefits. He may actually
learn something about other subjects along the way. <g>
If he can read a couple of years beyond his grade, he'll progress faster.
>
>> See if you can get a copy of what they tested. There's a big difference
>> in
>> the way to teach parts of speech versus reading comprehension.
>
> Yep, I will.
Is your son in Lisle public schools? If so, I have an e-mail from the
director of curriculum for that school district that I'll forward on to you.
--
Ed Huntress
Leon Fisk
Ignoramus967 <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
<snip>
>I love both suggestions. I think that he may have read some hardy boys
>books (secrets of the old mill comes to mind, at first I thought it
>was related to milling machines). I will explore this hardy book
>question today.
Another brief series he may find of interest was "The Three
Investigators". For example:
http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Stuttering-Parrot-Three-Investigators/dp/0679811710/
One of the main characters is Jupiter Jones, his dad owns a "salvage
yard". The three boys have built a club-house/base within the yard and
come up with all sorts of things they have salvaged. Jupiter likes to
use big words too, makes him seem to be older than he really is...
I read all ~15 books in the series, many years ago when I was around
your sons age.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
Ignoramus28478
Leon, I bought both those hardy boys, as well as this stuttering
parrot book. They are not that expensive used. Thanks a lot.
axolotl
> I love both suggestions. I think that he may have read some hardy boys
> books (secrets of the old mill comes to mind, at first I thought it
> was related to milling machines). I will explore this hardy book
> question today.
Ig,
You want the old editions of these books, published in the 40's and
50's. The series has been rewritten to make them more PC and less
interesting. A good excuse to visit the used book store.
Kevin Gallimore
Ignoramus28478
I was fully unaware (I bought books 1-6). What has changed?
i
pyotr filipivich
14:51:59 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:24:42 -0500, Ignoramus967
><ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>
>>My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
>>at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>>
>>I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
>>verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
>>US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>>
>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>already a big help.
>>
>>My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
>>discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
>>somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
>>tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
>>equivalent of that for English.
>>
>>I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
>>matters.
>>
>>i
>
>lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
>will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
>activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.
That will work.
For "fun" learning "The Transitive Vampire" is actually a very
readable, enjoyable, and educational grammar. The sentences and
illustrations are just enough offbeat as to demonstrate what is being
'taught' without the reader getting caught up in the meaning.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
axolotl
Plotlines, dialog, pretty much everything. My son read the HB books I
had as a kid. The school had a (required) summer reading program with a
list of books. After I complained the the selection of books was slanted
towards the tastes of little girls, the Hardy Boys books were added. Son
took the multiple choice test on a Hardy Boys book. Flunked. Same title,
different book.
For instance, I can remember that in "The Shore Road Mystery" Frank
Hardy gets his revolver and hides in the trunk of a car to catch car
thieves. I don't believe that would pass the current children's
literature editorial gate. The old books simply have better writing.
Don't neglect to take your kids to shows as they get older. What is dry
and boring in the classroom is funny and fascinating on stage. With both
of mine, I let them know that the school wouldn't let them read the
"good parts" of Shakespeare, and "let" them read the scene in All's Well
where Parolles is trying to talk Helena out of her virginity ("That,
once lost is won ten times over!").
If you make a trip out east, I'll point you to the Old Mill.
Unfortunately, it's been trashed by someone making a suburban home from it.
Kevin Gallimore
Michael A. Terrell
I loved the 'Space opera' genera. EE 'Doc' Smith and his 'Lensman'
series. Robert Heinlein's 'The Moon Is a harsh Mistress' about survival
on Mars during a political upheaval. There were hundreds of others. I
read everything on that subject, along with military history, hard
science and electronics my school's various libraries.
I volunteered in the library while in Junior High to get first chance
at new books, and hard to get books. I also repaired a lot of book
bindings, and used a wood burner and heat transfer foil to label new
books. I typed new cards for the card files, and maintained them. It
got me out of home room to open the library every morning, as well as
study hall. :)
When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
my library" by a 65 year old librarian.
Wes
>> I took the SAT test in 1974 or 5 when 750/750 was the limit.
>
>I'm curious, Wes. Where did you hear that the max scores in '74 or '75 were
>750/750? I've never heard this. I thought that they were always 800/800,
>until the recent revision of the system into three parts.
You are correct on the 800. My brain fubared on that. I was thinking of a kid in my
class that got a 750 on the math portion. He was walking around with a big head until one
of my clasemates asked him what he got on the verbal. When he said 450, good old Cindy
exclaimed, Oh, that is a 1200 combined, just like Wes. Pop went his balloon.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Buerste
"Larry Jaques" <lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
news:9qu016dn9f2vkapba...@4ax.com...
> <ClutchAtL...@Gmail.com> wrote the following:
>
>>Ignoramus967 <ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>>already a big help.
>>
>>
>
> promptly steered to the Websters Hernia Edition dictionary. I later
> bought a collegiate paperback dict for my own use, occasionally
> spending half an hour at a time reading every word in it. That must
> vocabulary than most of my friends, which was fun. Using large words
> in front of parents was a hoot, too.
>
> continually asks word meanings, pronunciations, or roots/origins.
> Also, for furriners (ESL learners) and curious kids. They're
> inexpensive and keep on giving to the recipient.
>
> Impeach 'em ALL!
> ----------------------------------------------------
And all those words that you simply made-up on the spot? ...just like your
statistics. Brilliant!
Buerste
"Larry Jaques" <lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
<snip>
> Nowadays, kids can look up words on their phones. But I still like
> giving out paperback dictionaries and saying "When you look up a word,
> read all the entries on the page." I consider it to be doing my part
> to reduce the quantity of ghastly speech in the world, such as these
> ever-lovely words, phrases, mispronunciations, and misspellings:
> "try and"
> "tempatcher"
> "viola"
> "there's"
> "ect"
> "masonary"
> "where's it at?"
> "to much"
> "for her and I"
> "Febuary"
> "eeeePock"
> "less then"
> and Buddha knows how many others.
>
My most hated are: redouble, irregardless, speciality, momentarily,
orientate, literally, burglarized, deceptively, enormity,
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
>>>
>>>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes
to
>>>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good
books
>>>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>>>already a big help.
>>>
>
decided he wanted me in "turbo" reading mode when I was about 8. He
bought me the 12-volume set, "Popular Mechanics Junior Do It Yourself
Encyclopedia". It was jammed full of projects that started with 8-year-
old skills, running to those that would ultimately challenge adults.
I still have that old set, and DEVOURED it as a kid. I must've tried 75%
of the projects, and read the set over and again more than 100 times.
At the same time, he happily allowed me to subcribe to Don Gilbert's "Mr.
Wizard's Science Club", which sent out monthly newsletters with projects.
Hell -- I learned to COOK from that publication, starting out with a
project on the effects of CO2 (baking a pound cake as part of the
experiment).
As you suggested, it was something I liked, and it was in writing, so I
had to read a lot.
I don't know if that publication is still available as an historic
reprint, but there MUST be some series like it still around with
reasonably difficult, possibly dangerous projects that will challenge
kids (not the milquetoast crap they feed them normally).
Check out some of the so-called "mad scientist" sites to see if they
might have some subscription pubs.
LLoyd
Larry Jaques
wrote the following:
How about FORMidable's mispronunciation, forMIDable? I used to think
it was only a Britishism (that's the way Jean Luc Picard said it.)
Ed Huntress
"Larry Jaques" <lja...@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
That's not a mispronunciation. There is no "verbal base" to the word
formidable (nothing equivalent to "lament" as a base for "lamentable," so
syllabic emphasis can go either way. Webster's accepts both.
Similar cases are hospitable and amicable. The trend is to avoid three
sequential, unemphasized syllables. They run together without much
separation. You're just getting old enough to notice the changing morphology
of English. If you were younger, you'd think you were an antiquarian crank.
d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> > How about FORMidable's mispronunciation, forMIDable? I used to think
> > it was only a Britishism (that's the way Jean Luc Picard said it.)
>
> That's not a mispronunciation. There is no "verbal base" to the word
> formidable (nothing equivalent to "lament" as a base for "lamentable," so
> syllabic emphasis can go either way. Webster's accepts both.
> Ed Huntress
In French, which has no (or less) stress variation, it can be for-mi-
DAB-l.
http://french.about.com/od/pronunciation/a/rhythm.htm
jsw
Leon Fisk
Ignoramus28478 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.28478.invalid> wrote:
<snip>
>I bought both those hardy boys, as well as this stuttering
>parrot book. They are not that expensive used. Thanks a lot.
The Hardy Boys had quite a few books in the series. They were actually
written by several authors, always claiming to be Frank W. Dixon. There
is a Wiki entry that covers much of the history. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardy_Boys
"The Three Investigator" series was originally around 10 books or so. I
sill have number 15, but it was written by someone else. The "tone"
changed and I didn't like them as well as the original author. This
Wiki entry has a lot more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Investigators
It seems the series eventually consisted of 43 books and several other
authors. I enjoyed reading both of these series at the time, all that I
could get my hands on. If your son likes them it should keep him
occupied for some time to come :)
Something that both of you may enjoy, but your son may be a bit young
yet is "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea" by Jules Verne. Be
careful with this one if you decide to buy it. There are at least four
versions I know of. The most common and the one I read was poorly
translated. There are at least three more versions that are much
better. See the Wiki, take note of the translations section. I have one
of the newer translations buy haven't gotten around to reading in yet :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20000_Leagues_Under_the_Sea#Translations
Ignoramus10537
I bought a bunch of original Hardy Boys books on ebay. I loved Leagues
under the Sea myself when I was a kid.
i
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
news:McudnRslBIhYEI_R...@giganews.com:
> I loved Leagues
> under the Sea myself when I was a kid.
>
Did you love all 20,000 of them, or just a few?
LLoyd
Ignoramus10537
I would say most of them. :)
Leon Fisk
Ignoramus10537 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10537.invalid> wrote:
<snip>
> I loved Leagues under the Sea myself when I was a kid.
Well you may want to re-read it, using one of the newer
translations. The gist I got was that the original translation left
out a lot of technical details. It was originally written in French. I
have also seen "kids" versions, more pictures, dumbed down text.
Several other works by Jules Verne had bum translations too. I've been
watching for some of his other titles to turn up at used book sales,
but so far have only found a newer version of Leagues. The old versions
are easy to find. Eventually I'll find some, always do, just have to be
patient...
Ignoramus10537
Leon Fisk
Ignoramus10537 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10537.invalid> wrote:
>On 2010-06-11, Leon Fisk <lf...@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote:
<snip>
>> Several other works by Jules Verne had bum translations
>> too.I've been watching for some of his other titles to
>> turn up at used book sales, but so far have only found a
>> newer version of Leagues. The old versions are easy to
>> find. Eventually I'll find some, always do, just have to
>> be patient...
>
>Well, I read it in Russian.
Hmm... I wonder if it was translated from the original French (good) or
they used the bum English version. Here is what the Wiki had to say
about this:
===
The novel was first translated into English in 1873 by Reverend Lewis
Page Mercier (aka "Mercier Lewis"). Mercier, under orders from British
censors and performed or dictated by his editors at Sampson Low, cut
nearly a quarter of Verne's original text and made hundreds of
translation errors, sometimes dramatically changing the meaning of
Verne's original intent. Some of these bowdlerizations may have been
done for political reasons, such as Nemo's identity and the nationality
of the two warships he sinks, or the portraits of freedom fighters on
the wall of his cabin which originally included Daniel O'Connell.[4]
Nonetheless it became the "standard" English translation for more than
a hundred years, while other translations continued to draw from it —
and its mistakes, especially the mistranslation of the title; the
French title actually means Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Seas.
A modern translation was produced in 1966 by Walter James Miller and
published by Washington Square Press.[5] Many of Mercier's changes were
addressed in the translator's preface, and most of Verne's text was
restored.
Many of the "sins" of Mercier were again corrected in a
from-the-ground-up re-examination of the sources and an entirely new
translation by Walter James Miller and Frederick Paul Walter between
1989 and 1991, published in 1993 by Naval Institute Press in a
"completely restored and annotated edition."[6] But, it has a new
error: in it the French word scaphandrier, which in this book means one
of Captain Nemo's divers in kit similar to an old-type heavy standard
diving suit but with an independent air supply, is everywhere wrongly
translated "frogman". F. P. Walter's own translation was published in
2009 with the title Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Seas (ISBN
978-1-904808-28-2)
===
You get the impression that other translations were based on the old
English text. You may have read a really screwed up version. A
translation of a translation. It would be interesting to
know, but I don't do Russian very well, only Babel-fish type stuff. I
know you are a bit busy right now with your Bridgeport project :)
Michael A. Terrell
Ignoramus10537 wrote:
>
> I bought a bunch of original Hardy Boys books on ebay. I loved Leagues
> under the Sea myself when I was a kid.
Several of Jules Verne's books are on Project Gutenberg.
Jim Wilkins
> ...
>
> >Well, I read it in Russian.
>
> Hmm... I wonder if it was translated from the original French (good) or
> they used the bum English version. Here is what the Wiki had to say
> about this:
> Leon Fisk
This Gutenberg English version:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/164/164-h/164-h.htm
agrees almost exactly with the French:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/5097
at least for the first few pages I read.
The French reads more smoothly.
jsw
Ignoramus10537
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:45:20 -0500
> Ignoramus10537 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10537.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-06-11, Leon Fisk <lf...@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote:
><snip>
>
>>> Several other works by Jules Verne had bum translations
>>> too.I've been watching for some of his other titles to
>>> turn up at used book sales, but so far have only found a
>>> newer version of Leagues. The old versions are easy to
>>> find. Eventually I'll find some, always do, just have to
>>> be patient...
>>
>>Well, I read it in Russian.
>
> Hmm... I wonder if it was translated from the original French (good) or
> they used the bum English version. Here is what the Wiki had to say
> about this:
I am sure that it was a direct translkation.
i
>===
> The novel was first translated into English in 1873 by Reverend Lewis
> Page Mercier (aka "Mercier Lewis"). Mercier, under orders from British
> censors and performed or dictated by his editors at Sampson Low, cut
> nearly a quarter of Verne's original text and made hundreds of
> translation errors, sometimes dramatically changing the meaning of
> Verne's original intent. Some of these bowdlerizations may have been
> done for political reasons, such as Nemo's identity and the nationality
> of the two warships he sinks, or the portraits of freedom fighters on
> the wall of his cabin which originally included Daniel O'Connell.[4]
> Nonetheless it became the "standard" English translation for more than
> a hundred years, while other translations continued to draw from it ???
Roger Shoaf
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:taydnRaf9Z-fGYzR...@earthlink.com...
When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
> my library" by a 65 year old librarian.
>
>
So how did you get rid of the old hag?
--
Roger Shoaf
About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
Michael A. Terrell
Roger Shoaf wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:taydnRaf9Z-fGYzR...@earthlink.com...
>
> When I entered high school I was informed, "No male will ever work in
> > my library" by a 65 year old librarian.
> >
> >
> So how did you get rid of the old hag?
I didn't. I started a ham radio club, instead. I was the only one
in the club without a ticket, but I was the best tech there. I got our
school newspaper to write a small article about the club, and to ask for
donations of unwanted electronics. I repaired about half of it with
salvaged parts, and we sold it to raise money to equip the station. I
had about 20 left over repaired TVs when we finished, so the club
donated them to the school.
The next year I was a teacher's aid for the Electronics one course,
and my senior year I taught an evening small appliance repair course to
adults.
BTW, years later I had that school system under contract for all
their electronic repairs, and most of the donated TVs were still in use.
:)
Gunner Asch
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:24:42 -0500, Ignoramus967
><ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>
>>My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
>>at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>>
>>I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
>>verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
>>US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>>
>>My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>(good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>already a big help.
>>
>>My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
>>discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
>>somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
>>tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
>>equivalent of that for English.
>>
>>I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
>>matters.
>>
>>i
>
>Take hiim to a public library and introduce him to books. There is a
>lot of good children's fiction. Enjoyable reading from good authors
>will improve his English skills by osmosis, while being an enjoyable
>activity. Summer is an excellent time to do this.
SciFi is a good starter for kids. Lots of younger SciFi out there.
Early Heinlein is a Great starter for kids.
I was hummm 6-8, couldnt read a word, had no use for it. Then Mom
brought home a Tom Swift book from the library. By the time the summer
was over..Id read the entire set, was up to 7th grade reading level.
This was when I was just into kindergarden /1st grade somewhere about
that age. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was reading at
graduate/college level.
And Ive been a book junkie ever since. When I went into the military in
71..I took a refridg shipping box..fullsized upright kitchen fridge,
filled with books to the library and donated them before shipping out.
A ton of Ace doubles etc etc..nearly all SciFi
Gunner, with about 6000 here at the homestead
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
Gunner Asch
<ignora...@NOSPAM.967.invalid> wrote:
>On 2010-06-09, Spehro Pefhany <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>
>> English, as taught in school, IMHO is not an easy subject to get a
>> _very_ high mark in. The kid has to put forth a lot of effort to
>> figure out what the teacher wants to hear and to echo it, and even
>> then... I'm assuming it's dealing with interpreting novels and that
>> sort of thing. Actual use of language is improved by talking with
>> articulate adults and reading most anything at a reasonably high
>> level, but I doubt that's his limitation (I wouldn't call it a problem
>> with 92%). Girls of that age seem to do a lot better than boys. Math
>> and science have a lot less of that BS.
>>
>
>I am pretty sure that the scores we are discussing involve
>standardized, multiple choice tests, so teacher's preferences are not
>as importaant as, say, grading homework.
>
>> Being able to present people with what they want to hear (even if
>> you personally disagree) is a useful skill, provided you know when
>> to turn it off. I would suggest if any tutoring it should involve
>> examsmanship-- carefully making sure that the student notes down all
>> the hints that the teacher gives, and covers every point. Have a
>> look at his tests, he may be losing marks for things that can be
>> very easily improved (neatness or something like that).
>
>I will try to learn this a little more, maybe I can get a copy of his
>test.
I should ask at this point..one assumes you are ALSO teaching him
Russian, or Ukrainian or whatever your native language is?
If not..best get at it. Kids that can speak more than one language go
rather far.
Gunner
Gunner Asch
This may be of interest..and might point out some titles that can be
downloaded here and there, for free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Science_Fiction
Gunner Asch
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 20:45:38 -0500, cavelamb <cave...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Ignoramus967 wrote:
>>> My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
>>> at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>>>
>>> I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
>>> verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
>>> US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>>>
>>> My question is how do we improve his English, given his age of 9. My
>>> first thought is that he needs to just find something that he likes to
>>> read about and read a lot more. I think that simply reading good books
>>> (good as in, giving some examples of good use of the language) is
>>> already a big help.
>>>
>>> My second thought is maybe he just needs to find some fun club, group,
>>> discussion forum, theater, tutor or something like that that would
>>> somehow make him more interested in learning English. He has a math
>>> tutor who tries to keep him interested in math, maybe we can find some
>>> equivalent of that for English.
>>>
>>> I never studied English formally, so I am not very experienced in such
>>> matters.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>>My first try hasn't shown up yet, so I'll try again.
>>It said...
>>
>>
>>"To teach is to learn".
>>
>>Have him teach you.
>>Not that there is anything wrong with your command of the language, ig.
>>But it is a good tactic.
>>
>>Someone mentioned diagramming sentences.
>>That would be an excellent place to start.
>
>I think that's a horrible place to start!
>Let that formality and discipline happen at school if it happens at
>all.
>
>There is much more to language than structure and rules. Language is
>about communication. The best way to learn language is to be exposed
>to many good examples of that language well used. It is more likely
>to "connect" if reading well-written material becomes an enjoyable way
>to spend liesure time. I define "well-written" here as material
>that communicates effectively, engages the reader. Most novels are
>fraught with grammatical violations. These violations are not usually
>accidental; editors are very good at catching grammatial gaffes. They
>are used for emphasis or effect or to be colloquial. Davy Crockett
>probably said "ain't" now and then, and (horrors) may have even
>regarded prepositions as acceptable words to end sentences with...
And then there was Mark Twains view of English.....
<G>
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>On Jun 10, 3:20 am, Steve Ackman <st...@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com>
>wrote:
>> ...
>> A better example might be the German rooted
>> Minnesotan expressions along the lines of, "You coming
>> with?"
>
>Du kommst mit?
>
>I didn't really understand the subtleties of the subjunctive and verb
>tenses like the perfective until I studied Latin and then German,
>which retain grammatical structures that have been simplified but not
>completely lost in English. Have you taught him any ??????? ?????
>
>jsw
I grew up speaking Yooper, and English as da secon speakin.
http://www.amazon.com/review/R18MQYI3NJ8YWF
kfvo...@gmail.com
> <kfvorw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:cc34ebde-7823-426b...@34g2000prs.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 9, 11:29 am, Jim Stewart <jstew...@jkmicro.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ignoramus967 wrote:
> > > My 9 year old got his report card scores today. His percentile rank is
> > > at 99% in math, but only 92% in English.
>
> > > I think that he can do better than than on English. I got 90% on GMAT
> > > verbal part, after just one year of living here, and he's lived in the
> > > US for 9 years, out of which he spoke English for 6 years.
>
> > son could be a great writer and still be marked down
> > for whatever the test creator decided was not above
> > average for his group. I remember coaching my daughter
> > on an writing assignment in 4th grade. She came up
> > with a delightful sentence or two and I remarked that
> > Steinbeck could not have said it better. The teacher
> > 'corrected' the sentence to a more bland form.
>
> > We need people that carry over part of their ethic
> > style. Look what Joseph Conrad did. An incredible
> > novelist who didn't speak fluent English until he was
> > in his twenties.
>
> > Just my humble opinion...
> >At my high school you failed the grammar part of an english test if
> >you used one coma splice. I've had no regard for english teachers and
> >their tests since then.
>
> You're being vindicated. The 15th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style has
> dropped it's prohibition against comma splices. The other stylebooks will
> eventually catch up.
>
> It's about time, since many top fiction writers have been using it for a
> half-century. The semicolon is in trouble now. <g>
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
Finally they did something right.
Jim Wilkins
wrote:
> Roger Shoaf wrote:
> ...
>
> I didn't. I started a ham radio club, instead. I was the only one
How did you learn it?
I tried to learn electronics in high school and found the available
resources very limited, even though the physics teacher lived a few
houses away and let me browse his library. I didn't know any ham
operators then.
My father was also self-taught and had missed electrical training, he
never did learn how to connect a three-way wall switch and I had to do
it every single time.
jsw