3D Guns?...it's all over now

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-to-Defense-Distributed

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

On Fri, 10 May 2013 02:08:11 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
<D...@null.net> wrote:

>http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-to-Defense-Distributed

Too late. It's in the wild now.

[RD Sandman]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:m1epo8holn6aqonor...@4ax.com:

> http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-to-
> Defense-Distributed
>

And the plans for the 3D gun probably got into distribution as fast as this
letter.

--
Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman

You can be young without money, but you
can't be old without it.

[Paul K. Dickman]

"RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:XnsA1BC759C5...@216.196.121.131...

I wouldn't worry too much.
It took a several thousand dollar printer 24 hours to print the parts for a
poorly fitted, smooth bore, single shot pistol.

There are a lot of cheaper and faster ways to make a zip-gun.

Paul K. Dickman

[Steve W.]

What gets me is how they are so worried about "plastic guns" being
brought into places they don't want guns, and how "easy" this big chunk
of plastic is to make. As Paul says the technology is out there but VERY
expensive.

In the movie "Line of fire" the bad guy made a 2 shot pistol MUCH
smaller than this printed one. That one was a "movie prop" BUT there is
no reason why a real one couldn't be made.


--
Steve W.

[MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE]

"Steve W."

> Paul K. Dickman wrote:
>> "RD Sandman"

>>> GOP_
>>>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-

to-
>>>> Defense-Distributed
>>>>
>>> And the plans for the 3D gun probably got into distribution as fast as
>>> this
>>> letter.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sleep well, tonight.....
>>>
>>> RD (The Sandman
>>>
>>> You can be young without money, but you
>>> can't be old without it.
>>
>> I wouldn't worry too much.
>> It took a several thousand dollar printer 24 hours to print the parts
for a
>> poorly fitted, smooth bore, single shot pistol.
>>
>> There are a lot of cheaper and faster ways to make a zip-gun.
>>
>> Paul K. Dickman
>>
>>
>
> What gets me is how they are so worried about "plastic guns" being
> brought into places they don't want guns, and how "easy" this big chunk
> of plastic is to make. As Paul says the technology is out there but VERY
> expensive.
>
> In the movie "Line of fire" the bad guy made a 2 shot pistol MUCH
> smaller than this printed one. That one was a "movie prop" BUT there is
> no reason why a real one couldn't be made.

LIBs want you to QUIVER at the Hypothesis of Global Warming
while ignoring the immediate Threat and Peril of Nuclear Iran
while the President's staff bounce around the planet stiffing hookers.



Humans are SUCH easy prey.


http://www.faithmouse.com/mcnaughton_fine_art.jpg
What OBAMA stands for.


What CTHILLARY stands for:Are you CTHILLA food yet?
http://omglog.com/thomas/archives/4083

ARE YOU CTHILLA FOOD YET?




http://www.freeman.org/m_online/jun04/sagamori.htm
Staying Morally Superior to the Sharks.
...
Even more obscene is the celebration by the Democrats of the scandal
during a presidential campaign. They would gladly sacrifice the country
if only they could rule over its ruins. What makes it even worse is the
obvious futility of their efforts.
...
when Hillary moves into the White House, the immorality
of the United States will need a different scale for measurement,
a scale which will leave sharks BARELY VISIBLE even with a powerful
microscope.
...



ONE LOOK AND YOU CAN'T DISGUISE those HUNGRY EYES.

http://www.presidiacreative.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/09/wageslave_large.jpg
http://www.paragraph11.com/images/all/Paragraph11-Clinton-Joker.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw3tuiND_xk
A JOURNEY TO THE END OF THE WORLD
A DESOLATE LAND OF ICE AND SNOW
WHERE AN INCREDIBLE DISCOVERY
LEADS TO MADNESS WORSE THAN LIBERALISM.

PRINCE HARRY JOINS TREK TO SOUTH POLE.
DO YOU SHARE HIS MADNESS? (VEGAS NUDITY to ELDRICH HORROR).
AREN'T you GLAD you SETTLED FOR THE LESSER EVIL?


CTHILLARY EMERGES. 2016/WE WERE WARNED.

[RD Sandman]

"Paul K. Dickman" <pkdi...@ameritech.net> wrote in
news:kmjfp...@news7.newsguy.com:

I wasn't worried. And, yes, I have made zip-guns. Been awhile but.....

[RogerN]

Don't mess with the 3d plastic guns until they make them worthwhile, you can
make a better guns cheaper and faster from hardware store parts. For
example, buy a piece of 3/4 in pipe, a nail, a pipe cap, a mouse trap, and a
piece of wood. A 12 gauge shotgun shell fits in the 3/4" pipe, drill a hole
in the cap for the nail. Saw off the nail and grind to make a firing pin.
Put the shotgun shell in the pipe, screw on the cap, insert a firing pin,
attach to the wood, attach mousetrap so it hits the nail when released. To
fire, load it up, pull back the hammer (mousetrap) and release to fire.
Test fire first from a safe distance to make sure the pipe doesn't blow up.
You can make a few of these while waiting on the 3d printer to print out a
plastic pistol.

For instructions with pictures for this and other improvised weapons,
download the US Army's improvised weapons books.

RogerN

The science to which I pinned my faith is bankrupt. Its counsels, which
should have established the millennium, have led directly to the suicide of
Europe. I believed them once. In their name I helped to destroy the faith of
millions of worshipers in the temples of a thousand creeds, and now they
look at me and witness the great tragedy of an atheist who has lost his
faith.
George Bernard Shaw
"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" wrote in message
news:m1epo8holn6aqonor...@4ax.com...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-to-Defense-Distributed

[David R. Birch]

True, if all you want is one.

With a zip gun, you spend several hours of hands on activity to produce
one gun.

OTOH, once you have the process proved out, all you have to do is load
up the plastic "toner", hit the cycle start button, then come back when
it's done. Repeat.

David

[RD Sandman]

"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in
news:kmjklf$4i4$1...@dont-email.me:

A real one WAS made. All it needs now is refinement.

[Steve W.]

There was actually three of the props made as well. Two were resin and
were used for the different scenes where the gun isn't fired. For the
firing scenes they used one machined out of aluminum to fire blanks.

I figured it would be easier to make one using a batch of fiber
reinforced epoxy and woven glass matting. The only real strength areas
would be the breech and chamber. Trigger(s) made out of common circuit
board laminate.
The real deciding factor would be the intended use of the weapon. If
it's the reason in the movie and you're willing to trade your life then
a single use is all you need. If you intended to make it reusable for a
longer period and are not dealing with a lot of security then the sky's
the limit.

--
Steve W.

[RD Sandman]

"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in news:kmjvpo$vfj$1@dont-
email.me:

Keep that thought in mind.

> I figured it would be easier to make one using a batch of fiber
> reinforced epoxy and woven glass matting. The only real strength areas
> would be the breech and chamber. Trigger(s) made out of common circuit
> board laminate.
> The real deciding factor would be the intended use of the weapon. If
> it's the reason in the movie and you're willing to trade your life then
> a single use is all you need. If you intended to make it reusable for a
> longer period and are not dealing with a lot of security then the sky's
> the limit.
>

Don't need it for more than one use. It will shoot well enough for me to
get another fine firearm.......perhaps yours.

[Steve W.]

That was the intent with the original liberator. Use it once to get a
real weapon. But even that could be reloaded if needed. I wonder how
much of the paranoid reaction is "to keep the gun out of the hands of
those who shouldn't have it" and how much is "Damn, that is a neat idea
and if we grab it and refine it we won't need to pay a designer for our
project"


--
Steve W.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

True, and without risking a million dollar fine and twenty years in
prison for posting plans not to mention aiding terrorists.


22 USC § 2778 - Control of arms exports and imports

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/2778

(a) Presidential control of exports and imports of defense articles
and services, guidance of policy, etc.; designation of United States
Munitions List; issuance of export licenses; negotiations information
(1) In furtherance of world peace and the security and foreign policy
of the United States, the President is authorized to control the
import and the export of defense articles and defense services and to
provide foreign policy guidance to persons of the United States
involved in the export and import of such articles and services.

The President is authorized to designate those items which shall be
considered as defense articles and defense services for the purposes
of this section and to promulgate regulations for the import and
export of such articles and services. The items so designated shall
constitute the United States Munitions List.

(c) Criminal violations; punishment
Any person who willfully violates any provision of this section,
section 2779 of this title, a treaty referred to in subsection
(j)(1)(C)(i), or any rule or regulation issued under this section or
section 2779 of this title, including any rule or regulation issued to
implement or enforce a treaty referred to in subsection (j)(1)(C)(i)
or an implementing arrangement pursuant to such treaty, or who
willfully, in a registration or license application or required
report, makes any untrue statement of a material fact or omits to
state a material fact required to be stated therein or necessary to
make the statements therein not misleading, shall upon conviction be
fined for each violation not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not
more than 20 years, or both.

[Gunner Asch]

On Fri, 10 May 2013 13:54:35 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"
<pkdi...@ameritech.net> wrote:

>

Ayup. So its utterly fascinating to watch the DOJ trying to play
catchup.



"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Leftwingers, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Raid� to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal

The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.

They HATE the truth."

[RD Sandman]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:4hkro81novnknvd6i...@4ax.com:

Except when he posted those plans there was no presidential control or
designation placed on them. They were not on the US Munitions List.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

What of it?

The list is an evolving one that encompasses whatever the President
decides to designate as defense articles and defense services.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Fri, 10 May 2013 16:48:08 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

>
>Don't mess with the 3d plastic guns until they make them worthwhile, you can
>make a better guns cheaper and faster from hardware store parts. For
>example, buy a piece of 3/4 in pipe, a nail, a pipe cap, a mouse trap, and a
>piece of wood. A 12 gauge shotgun shell fits in the 3/4" pipe, drill a hole
>in the cap for the nail. Saw off the nail and grind to make a firing pin.
>Put the shotgun shell in the pipe, screw on the cap, insert a firing pin,
>attach to the wood, attach mousetrap so it hits the nail when released. To
>fire, load it up, pull back the hammer (mousetrap) and release to fire.
>Test fire first from a safe distance to make sure the pipe doesn't blow up.
>You can make a few of these while waiting on the 3d printer to print out a
>plastic pistol.
>
>For instructions with pictures for this and other improvised weapons,
>download the US Army's improvised weapons books.

Or you could just go to your local DHS office and turn yourself in as
a domestic terrorist and save them the trouble of trailing out to
interrogate you.

[RogerN]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" wrote in message
news:so9to819naovh1d46...@4ax.com...

>On Fri, 10 May 2013 16:48:08 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Don't mess with the 3d plastic guns until they make them worthwhile, you
>>can
>>make a better guns cheaper and faster from hardware store parts. For
>>example, buy a piece of 3/4 in pipe, a nail, a pipe cap, a mouse trap, and
>>a
>>piece of wood. A 12 gauge shotgun shell fits in the 3/4" pipe, drill a
>>hole
>>in the cap for the nail. Saw off the nail and grind to make a firing pin.
>>Put the shotgun shell in the pipe, screw on the cap, insert a firing pin,
>>attach to the wood, attach mousetrap so it hits the nail when released.
>>To
>>fire, load it up, pull back the hammer (mousetrap) and release to fire.
>>Test fire first from a safe distance to make sure the pipe doesn't blow
>>up.
>>You can make a few of these while waiting on the 3d printer to print out a
>>plastic pistol.
>>
>>For instructions with pictures for this and other improvised weapons,
>>download the US Army's improvised weapons books.
>
>Or you could just go to your local DHS office and turn yourself in as
>a domestic terrorist and save them the trouble of trailing out to
>interrogate you.

It's free info from the department of the Army:

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2007/imhv3.pdf

They tell you how to make metal guns, explosives, mines, grenades.... But
out tyrannical government wants to "burn books" on the information to make
plastic guns? Why?

Look at it from two extremes, if no one had a gun, then when someone got an
illegal gun, they could go on a rampage and no one would be able to stop
them until police arrived. That's what happened at Sandy Hook elementary.
The absence of guns may mean there would be less gun deaths but guns aren't
the only tool a murderer could use. So maybe for every 100 less gun deaths,
there might be 100 more murders from hammers, knives, bombs,
strangulation....

The opposite extreme is that if everyone had guns, then when a kook went on
a rampage, they'd be shot right away. So there may be more gun deaths, but
it would be the murderers getting killed, that's not such a bad thing.

RogerN

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 16:00:48 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

You need to ask?

Except in the eyes of gun nuts,it's not in the public interest for
terrorists and the mentally ill to be able to manufacture firearms at
will of course.

>Look at it from two extremes, if no one had a gun, then when someone got an
>illegal gun, they could go on a rampage and no one would be able to stop
>them until police arrived. That's what happened at Sandy Hook elementary.
>The absence of guns may mean there would be less gun deaths but guns aren't
>the only tool a murderer could use. So maybe for every 100 less gun deaths,
>there might be 100 more murders from hammers, knives, bombs,
>strangulation....
>
>The opposite extreme is that if everyone had guns, then when a kook went on
>a rampage, they'd be shot right away.


>So there may be more gun deaths, but
>it would be the murderers getting killed,

What on earth leads you to make such a foolhardy, erroneous
assumption?

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message
news:locto8psih3mttlqn...@4ax.com...

And liberals feel that if they try to enforce ignorance among the
population, that terrorists and the mentally ill will be unable to engage in
grievous acts of mayhem.

[deep]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 17:42:38 -0400, "Scout"
<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>And liberals feel that if they try to enforce ignorance among the
>population, that terrorists and the mentally ill will be unable to engage in
>grievous acts of mayhem.

HAHAHAHAHAHAA. The irony here is almost too much to stand.

Just think, a dumb ass conservative think that the liberals are trying
to enforce ignorance.

Too much....

http://www.thenation.com/blog/167999/its-official-watching-fox-makes-you-stupider#

[Joe]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-t...

I need to get financing for the 3-D printer so I can use it to make a
single shot pistol.


Now I am fully aware that there is no evidence that it can shoot more
than once without imploding, so I promise to not sue Defense
Distributed LLC for when it may or may not explode in my hand, maiming
me and turning me into a subject of the social safety net because I
will be just another dumbfuck with one hand and a stump on the other.

Or, I could just go and buy a real gun at a gun fest!

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 17:42:38 -0400, "Scout"
<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>

There is a lot of classified information.
You seem an unlikely candidate to be a Bradley Manning supporter
but I guess you never can tell.

that terrorists and the mentally ill will be unable to engage in
>grievous acts of mayhem.

They will do what they do, but they won't be churning out unstable
unreliable plastic guns undetectable by screeners any time soon.

What planet do you think you are living on?

By your logic anyone should be given recipes for germ and chemical
warfare to avoid the loony accusation of "enforced ignorance

Don't forget to send your donation to Julian Assange .

[Ron White]

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:

> I wouldn't worry too much.
> It took a several thousand dollar printer 24 hours to print the parts for a
> poorly fitted, smooth bore, single shot pistol.
>
> There are a lot of cheaper and faster ways to make a zip-gun.
>
> Paul K. Dickman

Yeah, sure! But after you finish those 24 hours making the pistol
and its parts with the very expensive 3-D printer, you can make a 3-D
bust of Wayne LaPierre giving James Porter oral sex, and send in to
Obama, signed "Suck my Bullet"

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

Now you are spoiling their fantasy.

It has little to do with domestic gun obsessed fanatics.

The Department's concern, as I understand it, is that this
self-professed anarchist appears to be supplying the methodology of
unscreenable firearm manufacture to terrorists and criminals in breach
of international treaties and US law,, not to mention the matter of
the high explosive anti-tank warheads .

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message

news:qihto8d078jaufdar...@4ax.com...

Really? So a CNC program has now been classified?

Cite.

Does that mean the Defense Distributed LLC is now a government contractor
working on classified projects?

LOL.....

[Gunner Asch]

It�s nationally known as one of the most liberal cities in the
country, blacks make up a majority of the city board, and the official
policy that favored blacks over whites and Hispanics was the subject
of a Supreme Court case.

So what�s the NAACP say about New Haven, Conn.?

It practices apartheid.

That�s according to the New Haven NAACP chapter, which likens the
city�s practices to the South African system that maintained official
policies of racial segregation that included political, legal and
economic discrimination against blacks.

The NAACP in New Haven, which was ranked 15th most liberal city in the
nation in a report by the Bay Area Center for Voting Research, has
released a report making the accusation.

The report, in fact, is called �Urban Apartheid.�

It alleges that �low-income people of color� in New Haven �continue to
be separated from the country�s social and economic mainstream in part
as a direct result of current local, regional, state, and national
policies.�

It cites the differences in circumstances between those with low
incomes and those with higher incomes. It points out that 58 percent
of blacks live in low-income neighborhoods, while only 21 percent of
whites live there. And 63 percent of Hispanics live there.

The report also points out that only 10 percent of families in
low-income neighborhoods make more than $100,000 while 43 percent of
those in high-income neighborhoods make more than $100,000 a year.

The report also says cases of asthma, diabetes and high blood pressure
are higher in low-income neighborhoods.

It recommends that more affordable housing units be allowed, health
conditions be improved, voter registration needs to be improved,
politicians must be accountable to �minority communities,� pipelines
should be created to put �young black and Latino residents� in civic
leadership roles, and the barriers to employment need to be removed
for those �formerly incarcerated residents.�

Ilana Mercer, a WND columnist and author of �Into the Cannibal�s Pot:
Lessons for America from Post-Apartheid South Africa,� left South
Africa in 1995. She is highly critical of the NAACP�s �promiscuous use
of the apartheid pejorative,� telling WND, �It is as ignorant as it is
glib.�

�Like antibiotics that lose their potency through over dosage �
yelling �apartheid� at people just because they are richer and more
educated than you makes you look ridiculous,� Mercer added.

Besides its ranking as the nation�s 15th-most liberal city, the city
also voted for a liberal Barack Obama over a more conservative Mitt
Romney by a 9-1 margin in 2012. Also, it�s home to Yale.

Many features of New Haven�s legal and political system don�t seem to
fit the definition of apartheid. Under apartheid, �racism and
segregation became thoroughly rigid and institutionalized; they
permeated all aspects of life, and government repression became more
ruthless,� according to a Michigan State University study.

The South African government purposefully separated students by race,
and blacks did not have the right to vote or hold political office
under apartheid.

In contrast, blacks in New Haven have a disproportionate share of
seats in the city�s government. New Haven is 35 percent black, 27
percent Hispanic, and 32 percent white. Of 30 aldermen, 16 are black,
7 are Hispanic, and seven are white. Only one of these alderman
responded to a WND request for comment on the city�s �apartheid.�

That alderman, Justin Elicker, described himself to WND as a
�progressive Democrat.�

Elicker, who is white, says, �I would not choose the word �apartheid�
to describe what is happening in New Haven.�

He noted that �[t]he word apartheid indicates that individuals are
intentionally targeted and suppressed.

�I don�t believe most members of our society are intentionally keeping
others down,� he says.

Elicker, however, did criticize �the structure that has been created
to limit opportunities for those individuals who find themselves in
poverty,� including such perceived problems as �a public
transportation system that is inefficient making it time consuming and
difficult to get to work.�

Despite the accusation of �apartheid,� the most prominent instance of
race-based politics in recent New Haven history was the city�s
official discrimination against white and Hispanic firefighters in
favor of blacks. That discrimination was the subject of the important
Ricci v. DeStefano Supreme Court case.

Since 1976, the city has had an official affirmative action plan.
Today, the affirmative action plan states: �The City of New Haven
continues to be firmly and aggressively committed to a program of
affirmative action designed to assist members of protected classes in
gaining employment opportunity in all aspects of employment with the
city.�

New Haven is 35 percent black, and 25 percent of all government jobs
are held by blacks. The city is 27 percent Hispanic and Hispanics hold
14 percent of government jobs. Whites are 32 percent of the city, and
they hold 57 percent of government jobs.

The city�s corporate counsel, city clerk, director of the commission
on equal opportunities, and community services administrator are
black. These officials declined to respond to repeated requests to
comment on their leadership roles in the city with �apartheid.�

Other major cities like Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Chicago do not
publicly provide the racial breakdown of government jobs. New Haven
publicly posts a chart showing its government
workforce racial representation, another policy which doesn�t fit the
traditional definition of apartheid.

200 Year-old Issues?

The New Haven NAACP did not respond to repeated requests for comment
on the accusation of apartheid.

But the organization states in the report, �We chose the term �Urban
Apartheid� as the title of this report because low-income people of
color in America�s urban areas, including the Greater New Haven
metropolitan area, continue to be separated from the country�s social
and economic mainstream in part as a direct result of current local,
regional, state, and national policies.�

The report points to various inequalities in housing, health, and
education, mostly based on economics.

Mercer rejects the notion that these inequalities constitute some form
of injustice.

�If one assumes (as only an ass would) that aptitudes and abilities
never vary by culture or ethnicity, as well as from one individual to
another, one will indeed blame the absence of a perfect state of
equality on the endemic racism of The Hated Other, whites for the
NAACP,� Mercer says.

As the NAACP report noted, �Apartheid is any policy or practice of
separating or segregating groups. It was an official policy formerly
practiced in South Africa against non-whites.�

However, the NAACP report does not explain how health issues or
affordable housing constitute a regime of �apartheid.�

Jim Rawlings, head of the local NAACP, said he knew there would be
resistance to the report.

�These are the same issues we�ve been going through for the last 200
years,� he claimed.



--

"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.

[F. George McDuffee]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 18:44:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
<gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:

>It�s nationally known as one of the most liberal cities in the
>country, blacks make up a majority of the city board, and the official
>policy that favored blacks over whites and Hispanics was the subject
>of a Supreme Court case.
>
>So what�s the NAACP say about New Haven, Conn.?
>
>It practices apartheid.

<snip>

Lived in Branford, a stone's throw north, for a number of
years when I was worked as a product engineer and then test
facility manager.

When I was there the first big phone tapping scandal had
just broken and was turning over rocks. Nothing much seems
to have changed, other than the yuppie invasion displaced
the maker/tax paying classes.
http://www.thenation.com/article/wiretapping-tango#
http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/FBI-special-agent-Mayor-s-cell-phone-was-412411.php

Also there was a big scandal about a hit and run fatality
that apparently involved a relative of the chief of police.
http://books.google.com/books?id=mzMTVgZk7ccC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=%22new+haven%22+police+cover-up+cold+case&source=bl&ots=dNW0K1oUxV&sig=4rrKHYuelYKKwx-PtJZUScqQLv4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ugiPUbjYE-uJ0QHU9oCADg&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22new%20haven%22%20police%20cover-up%20cold%20case&f=false


It was a sleezy area then, and seems to be even sleezier now
that most industry, i.e. productive activity has been driven
out. New Haven and surrounding areas were some of the most
corrupt areas I have had the misfortune to live in, right up
there with St Louis. Heavely mobbed up, but the capos shared
the money with everyone that counted... This is the home of
Kelo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

Two big items contributing to the collapse of the state
appear to have been enactment of an income tax (to solve the
state's financial problems once and for all :-( ) and the
Greenwich invasion by the New York Yuppies with far more
oney than sense that pushed all the productive "makers"
north, then out. Bridgeport, New Haven, Hartford, all gone
as productive zones...


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

[benj]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 17:42:38 -0400, Scout wrote:

> And liberals feel that if they try to enforce ignorance among the
> population, that terrorists and the mentally ill will be unable to
> engage in grievous acts of mayhem.

Come on Scout, don't be so damn negative. Didn't the liberal idea of "gun
free zones" stop all school and movie theater mass shootings?

I say if just one life is saved by an idea, it's worth it!

[Gunner Asch]

Not to mention Mossberg, Stagg Arms and Colt...all will be leaving
that area as well. Marlin has already left.

Several thousand jobs....phuuut!

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:14:51 -0400, "Scout"

Aiming for an Oscar in buffoonery are you?

>
>Does that mean the Defense Distributed LLC is now a government contractor
>working on classified projects?
>
>LOL.....

It means that the self-professed anarchist Cody Wilson could go to
prison for twenty years and be fined a million dollars if he didn't
ease and desist his activities.

Being wiser than obsessed gun fanatics he ceased them.

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message

news:bqfuo89bha2qm78uj...@4ax.com...

You were the one that suggested this program has been classified, and can't
back up that claim.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 04:42:15 -0400, "Scout"

Indeed it was. And I have been waiting for his cite as well.

Oddly enough...I suspect he is blowing smoke out his ass....and he
cant even fart a cite.

Gunner

[RogerN]

"benj" wrote in message news:87Fjt.1047$OU5...@newsfe27.iad...

And then when the "gun free zone" idea fails, they are such low-life's that
they blame the NRA! Excuse me, isn't it the NRA's position that if you
"Outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns"? So the liberals prove they
were wrong, they prove the NRA was right, but then they blame the NRA!
Liberal absurdity!

RogerN

[RogerN]

On the topic of 3D printing... would it work to transfer metal in some sort
of electroplating process. Or maybe an underwater welding metal build up
process. Just trying to think of way to make objects out of metal instead
of plastic.

A guy I used to work with had worked at a company where they used 3D
printers to print wax parts that were then investment cast.

RogerN

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 04:42:15 -0400, "Scout"

Once again you are reduced to pedantic buffoonery to avoid answering a
simple point.

There are many types of information withheld in the public interest.

How to produce chemical weapons or neutron bombs for example.
This is not to "enforce ignorance among the population" but for
national security.

It seems that not only do you not want restrictions on access to
weapons by terrorists,criminals and lunatics you want to encourage
them to manufacture their own.

[Gray Guest]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:so9to819naovh1d46...@4ax.com:

Hey stupid, there have been books out there for decades. Both privately
published and reprints of military "improvised munitions" books.

Even the Alice B Toklas cookbook had some tools for then revoltuion in it.

So when does the book burning start, hERR Kreisleiter?

Basically unless you are going to purge all the leftist vermin from
academia that participated in violence in the past, you ain't got shit to
say about anything, sparky.

--
Refusenik #1

Libs suffer from Eleutherophobia. And there is no cure.

Obama called the SEALs and THEY got bin Laden. When the SEALs called Obama,
THEY GOT DENIED. Fuck Obama

[Gray Guest]

deep wrote in news:fhfto89rr1okafmpu...@4ax.com:

Have you not been paying attention for the last 40 years?

Oh wait, you're a sterling example.

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message

news:mlavo8thlsbp3akj0...@4ax.com...

Ok...so it's not classified....so what other type of information are you
going to claim that it is which can be withheld in the "public interest"..

Oh, and I will note that terms like "public interest", "common good" and so
on are after used as an excuse for tyranny.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

I would have thought even you could distinguish between books and
CAD software disseminated on the Internet by a self-professed
anarchist for terrorists and criminals to produce undetectable
weapons.

>
>Basically unless you are going to purge all the leftist vermin from
>academia that participated in violence in the past, you ain't got shit to
>say about anything, sparky.

Yet, oddly, the received wisdom is that right wing militias and
neo-nazis compose the greatest terrorist threat.

[Steve W.]

Chemical weapons are easy to make and finding "recipes" for many are not
hard to find online. Same with nukes. The mechanism itself isn't hard to
build. The trick is finding the fissionable material to fill it.

As for the "public interest" It is not nor has it ever been the right of
the government to decide what is best for the public in terms of
withholding information. Now if you wanted to say it was in the
interests of the sitting politicians to withhold info then you would be
correct. 99% of them are afraid of the public getting unedited and
scrubbed factual info. Hell for most of them if you show a fact to them
it's like tossing a vampire out in the sun....

--
Steve W.

[Richard]

On 5/12/2013 4:45 PM, Steve W. wrote:

> Chemical weapons are easy to make and finding "recipes" for many are not
> hard to find online. Same with nukes. The mechanism itself isn't hard to
> build. The trick is finding the fissionable material to fill it.
>
> As for the "public interest" It is not nor has it ever been the right of
> the government to decide what is best for the public in terms of
> withholding information. Now if you wanted to say it was in the
> interests of the sitting politicians to withhold info then you would be
> correct. 99% of them are afraid of the public getting unedited and
> scrubbed factual info. Hell for most of them if you show a fact to them
> it's like tossing a vampire out in the sun....
>

I think that (politicians deciding what's good for us) began with Teddy
Roosevelt. Teddy was a wealth man in his own right (inherited) and
just refused to be bought. He became president when President William
McKinley was assassinated.

McKinley was a wholly owned subsidiary of Standard Oil at that time.
Jobs for working class stiffs were rare and dangerous.
There was NO middle class either.

So Teddy suddenly becomes President and starts busting trusts - as
being "in the public interest".

Standard Oil, Westinghouse Electric, the railroads and eventually even
U.S. Steel were all broken up as being too big for their own good.

Only then came prosperity for the common man.

For a while anyway...

It looks like we have returned to the age of the big corporations now,
with the singular difference that that todays politicians EXPECT to be
bought. Or at least rented.

[RD Sandman]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:ea9to818p6dva0g4a...@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 11 May 2013 09:49:07 -0500, RD Sandman
> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in

>>news:4hkro81novnknvd6i...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 13:54:35 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"
>>> <pkdi...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:XnsA1BC759C5...@216.196.121.131...
>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:m1epo8holn6aqonor...@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-
State-
>>>>>> to- Defense-Distributed
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And the plans for the 3D gun probably got into distribution as fast
>>>>> as this
>>>>> letter.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sleep well, tonight.....
>>>>>
>>>>> RD (The Sandman
>>>>>
>>>>> You can be young without money, but you
>>>>> can't be old without it.

>>>>
>>>>I wouldn't worry too much.
>>>>It took a several thousand dollar printer 24 hours to print the parts
>>>>for a poorly fitted, smooth bore, single shot pistol.
>>>>
>>>>There are a lot of cheaper and faster ways to make a zip-gun.
>>>>
>>>>Paul K. Dickman
>>>

>>> True, and without risking a million dollar fine and twenty years in
>>> prison for posting plans not to mention aiding terrorists.
>>>
>>>
>>> 22 USC § 2778 - Control of arms exports and imports
>>>
>>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/2778
>>>
>>> (a) Presidential control of exports and imports of defense articles
>>> and services, guidance of policy, etc.; designation of United States
>>> Munitions List; issuance of export licenses; negotiations information
>>> (1) In furtherance of world peace and the security and foreign policy
>>> of the United States, the President is authorized to control the
>>> import and the export of defense articles and defense services and to
>>> provide foreign policy guidance to persons of the United States
>>> involved in the export and import of such articles and services.
>>>
>>> The President is authorized to designate those items which shall be
>>> considered as defense articles and defense services for the purposes
>>> of this section and to promulgate regulations for the import and
>>> export of such articles and services. The items so designated shall
>>> constitute the United States Munitions List.
>>>
>>> (c) Criminal violations; punishment
>>> Any person who willfully violates any provision of this section,
>>> section 2779 of this title, a treaty referred to in subsection
>>> (j)(1)(C)(i), or any rule or regulation issued under this section or
>>> section 2779 of this title, including any rule or regulation issued
to
>>> implement or enforce a treaty referred to in subsection (j)(1)(C)(i)
>>> or an implementing arrangement pursuant to such treaty, or who
>>> willfully, in a registration or license application or required
>>> report, makes any untrue statement of a material fact or omits to
>>> state a material fact required to be stated therein or necessary to
>>> make the statements therein not misleading, shall upon conviction be
>>> fined for each violation not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not
>>> more than 20 years, or both.
>>
>>Except when he posted those plans there was no presidential control or
>>designation placed on them. They were not on the US Munitions List.
>
> What of it?
>
> The list is an evolving one that encompasses whatever the President
> decides to designate as defense articles and defense services.
>

What of it? The plans are already out there. HEl Presidente can
decleare anything he wants, the fact is that the plans are in the public
domain.



--
Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman

You can be young without money, but you
can't be old without it.

[RD Sandman]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:bqfuo89bha2qm78uj...@4ax.com:

Which does not mean the fruit of his labors aren't already out there.

[RD Sandman]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:jervo8hul0otaenpd...@4ax.com:

And, who developed that received wisdom? The left.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

"The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with
their bones".

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

Homeland Security, the FBI, independent security analysts, to name but
three.

> The left.

They are "left" only in the delusions of vocal fanatics

[RD Sandman]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:jsk0p85kdv9djau0g...@4ax.com:

Nice quote.

[RD Sandman]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:uuk0p8pj4rj8c03n8...@4ax.com:

Whatever. You have your fantasies, I have mine.

[deep]

Name one example of left wing anti government militancy in this
country since the 70s.

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

Name a SINGLE right wing "anti-government" militancy.

[its me]

On May 13, 3:08 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

CFR

[Tom Gardner]

On 5/11/2013 6:50 PM, Ron White wrote:

> "Paul K. Dickman" wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't worry too much.
>> It took a several thousand dollar printer 24 hours to print the parts for a
>> poorly fitted, smooth bore, single shot pistol.
>>
>> There are a lot of cheaper and faster ways to make a zip-gun.
>>
>> Paul K. Dickman
>

> Yeah, sure! But after you finish those 24 hours making the pistol
> and its parts with the very expensive 3-D printer, you can make a 3-D
> bust of Wayne LaPierre giving James Porter oral sex, and send in to
> Obama, signed "Suck my Bullet"
>
> It's the gift that keeps on giving.
>

What is with the liberal fascination with gay sex? It seems that it is
all you guys think about.

[Tom Gardner]

On 5/11/2013 5:11 PM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 16:00:48 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
> wrote:
>

>> "GOP_Decline_and_Fall" wrote in message
>> news:so9to819naovh1d46...@4ax.com...

>>
>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 16:48:08 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't mess with the 3d plastic guns until they make them worthwhile, you
>>>> can
>>>> make a better guns cheaper and faster from hardware store parts. For
>>>> example, buy a piece of 3/4 in pipe, a nail, a pipe cap, a mouse trap, and
>>>> a
>>>> piece of wood. A 12 gauge shotgun shell fits in the 3/4" pipe, drill a
>>>> hole
>>>> in the cap for the nail. Saw off the nail and grind to make a firing pin.
>>>> Put the shotgun shell in the pipe, screw on the cap, insert a firing pin,
>>>> attach to the wood, attach mousetrap so it hits the nail when released.
>>>> To
>>>> fire, load it up, pull back the hammer (mousetrap) and release to fire.
>>>> Test fire first from a safe distance to make sure the pipe doesn't blow
>>>> up.
>>>> You can make a few of these while waiting on the 3d printer to print out a
>>>> plastic pistol.
>>>>
>>>> For instructions with pictures for this and other improvised weapons,
>>>> download the US Army's improvised weapons books.
>>>
>>> Or you could just go to your local DHS office and turn yourself in as
>>> a domestic terrorist and save them the trouble of trailing out to
>>> interrogate you.
>>

>> It's free info from the department of the Army:
>>
>> http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2007/imhv3.pdf
>>
>> They tell you how to make metal guns, explosives, mines, grenades.... But
>> out tyrannical government wants to "burn books" on the information to make
>> plastic guns? Why?
>
> You need to ask?
>
> Except in the eyes of gun nuts,it's not in the public interest for
> terrorists and the mentally ill to be able to manufacture firearms at
> will of course.
>

>> Look at it from two extremes, if no one had a gun, then when someone got an
>> illegal gun, they could go on a rampage and no one would be able to stop
>> them until police arrived. That's what happened at Sandy Hook elementary.
>> The absence of guns may mean there would be less gun deaths but guns aren't
>> the only tool a murderer could use. So maybe for every 100 less gun deaths,
>> there might be 100 more murders from hammers, knives, bombs,
>> strangulation....
>>
>> The opposite extreme is that if everyone had guns, then when a kook went on
>> a rampage, they'd be shot right away.
>
>
>> So there may be more gun deaths, but
>> it would be the murderers getting killed,
>
> What on earth leads you to make such a foolhardy, erroneous
> assumption?
>
>
>> that's not such a bad thing.
>>
>> RogerN
>>


You would just LOVE guns...if they were used in abortions!

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:67p1p8hsutmr0h7m1...@4ax.com...

Name one example of right wing anti government militancy in this
country since the 70s.

[Scout]

"its me" <gdew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a08eff82-a3d2-47ca...@m4g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...

The Council on Foreign Relations is "anti-government"?

That's news to me.

[Gray Guest]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:jervo8hul0otaenpd...@4ax.com:

Whixh is why none no TEA Party person has been accused of terrorism, but
while dickheads like you fantasize about it, 2 Chechens terrorists killed
an 8 year old boy.

You haven't got a really good grasp on who the danger really is do you?

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

What on earth are you raving about now?
Are you mentally ill or something?

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

Idiot troll.

How about 1,724 of them?

The other terrorism: Right-wing extremism's threat to America

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/322886

From 149 groups in 2008, the number of militia and “patriot”
organizations skyrocketed to a staggering 1,274 in 2011. Last year’s
total was reportedly more than 400 groups higher than the prior
all-time high, in 1996: the year following the Oklahoma City bombing.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

Sure

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/322886

Sovereign Citizens Movement � anti-government ideology: Authorities
and monitors of militant right-wing extremist groups are increasingly
concerned about the threat posed by a subset of anti-government
radicals called �sovereign citizens.�

Sovereign citizens are a segment of the overall anti-government
movement and believe the government is illegitimate and has no
authority over them. They believe that they are not subject to U.S.
laws or taxation.

The movement is a loosely organized collective of individuals and
groups with a largely anti-government ideology that was first
developed decades ago in white supremacist circles.

In a September 2011 report the FBI noted that six law enforcement
officers were killed in the line of duty by lone wolf sovereign
citizens since 2000

[Ed Huntress]

Tom does a lot of free-associating. He just doesn't tell us when he's
doing it. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

[Tom Gardner]

I'm right on the money! Leftists would love "Abortion Guns"! Imagine,
you can terminate a pregnancy at 200 yards and not have to use those
painfully slow scissors. Of course, it would have to be full-auto for
you guys to go ape shit over it. Semi-auto just wouldn't cut it.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

<vile pornography about shooting pregnant women snipped>

I guess you just answered the question about whether you are mentally
diseased or not.

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message

news:f793p89523mf3ppl5...@4ax.com...

So you can't show even one that is "anti-government" as you claimed?

Somehow that doesn't surprise me.

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message

news:eg93p8dt9nl8mgmi4...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 13 May 2013 18:56:22 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"deep" wrote in message news:67p1p8hsutmr0h7m1...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 12 May 2013 23:16:57 -0500, RD Sandman
>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>And, who developed that received wisdom?
>>>>>
>>>>> Homeland Security, the FBI, independent security analysts, to name but
>>>>> three.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The left.
>>>>>
>>>>> They are "left" only in the delusions of vocal fanatics
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Whatever. You have your fantasies, I have mine.
>>>
>>> Name one example of left wing anti government militancy in this
>>> country since the 70s.
>>
>>Name one example of right wing anti government militancy in this
>>country since the 70s.
>
> Sure
>
> http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/322886
>

> Sovereign Citizens Movement - anti-government ideology: Authorities

> and monitors of militant right-wing extremist groups are increasingly
> concerned about the threat posed by a subset of anti-government
> radicals called "sovereign citizens."
>
> Sovereign citizens are a segment of the overall anti-government
> movement and believe the government is illegitimate and has no
> authority over them. They believe that they are not subject to U.S.
> laws or taxation.
>
> The movement is a loosely organized collective of individuals and
> groups with a largely anti-government ideology that was first
> developed decades ago in white supremacist circles.
>
> In a September 2011 report the FBI noted that six law enforcement
> officers were killed in the line of duty by lone wolf sovereign
> citizens since 2000

Sorry, but you're not showing any group that is anti-government. All you're
showing us is another's OPINION they are anti-government.

Oh, and that doesn't mean they oppose the current government but rather they
are against having ANY government.

So....still waiting.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

You are just so surreal in your denials it verges on psychosis.

Sovereign Citizens

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens

A Growing Domestic Threat to Law Enforcement
By the FBI�s Counterterrorism Analysis Section

>
>Oh, and that doesn't mean they oppose the current government but rather they
>are against having ANY government.
>
>So....still waiting.

Sure and the Oklahoma bombing never happened and the dead LEO's were
actors..right?

pathetic.

Meanwhile...back in the real world

However, a closer look at sovereign citizens� more severe crimes, from
financial scams to impersonating or threatening law enforcement
officials, gives reason for concern. If someone challenges (e.g., a
standard traffic stop for false license plates) their ideology, the
behavior of these sovereign-citizen extremists quickly can escalate to
violence.

Since 2000, lone-offender sovereign-citizen extremists have killed six
law enforcement officers. In 2010, two Arkansas police officers
stopped sovereign-citizen extremists Jerry Kane and his 16-year-old
son Joseph during a routine traffic stop on Interstate 40. Joseph Kane
jumped out of the vehicle and opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle,
killing both officers.

The sovereign-citizen threat likely will grow as the nationwide
movement is fueled by the Internet, the economic downturn, and
seminars held across the country that spread their ideology and show
people how they can tap into funds and eliminate debt through
fraudulent methods. As sovereign citizens� numbers grow, so do the
chances of contact with law enforcement and, thus, the risks that
incidents will end in violence. Law enforcement and judicial officials
must understand the sovereign-citizen movement, be able to identify
indicators, and know how to protect themselves from the group�s
threatening tactics.


The FBI considers sovereign-citizen extremists as comprising a
domestic terrorist movement, which, scattered across the United
States, has existed for decades, with well-known members, such as
Terry Nichols, who helped plan the Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, bombing.
Sovereign citizens do not represent an anarchist group, nor are they a
militia, although they sometimes use or buy illegal weapons.

Rather, they operate as individuals without established leadership
and only come together in loosely affiliated groups to train, help
each other with paperwork, or socialize and talk about their ideology.
They may refer to themselves as �constitutionalists� or �freemen,�
which is not necessarily a connection to a specific group, but,
rather, an indication that they are free from government control. They
follow their own set of laws.

While the philosophies and conspiracy theories can vary from person to
person, their core beliefs are the same: The government operates
outside of its jurisdiction. Because of this belief, they do not
recognize federal, state, or local laws, policies, or regulations.

[Gunner Asch]

Is anyone surprised that he cant?
Im not. Not in the slightest.

Now Im curious..does he make a distinction between anti-oppressivie
government...like say..Nazi Germany had..and pro Constitution?

Ill bet Herr Obansturmfuer Gop doesnt.


>

--
"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Raid� to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal

The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.

They HATE the truth."

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message

news:0ik3p8l884phm81sq...@4ax.com...

" federal, state, and local governments operate illegally"

It is a massive leap from someone complaining the government is operating
illegally to claiming such people are opposed to any sort of government.

Dudu is at Strike 2, you are at Strike 1.

Care to take your next swing at backing up your claim?

>>Oh, and that doesn't mean they oppose the current government but rather
>>they
>>are against having ANY government.
>>
>>So....still waiting.
>
> Sure and the Oklahoma bombing never happened and the dead LEO's were
> actors..right?
>
> pathetic.
>
> Meanwhile...back in the real world
>
> However, a closer look at sovereign citizens' more severe crimes, from
> financial scams to impersonating or threatening law enforcement
> officials, gives reason for concern. If someone challenges (e.g., a
> standard traffic stop for false license plates) their ideology, the
> behavior of these sovereign-citizen extremists quickly can escalate to
> violence.

And meanwhile in Usenet this still does NOT establish they are
anti-government as you claimed.

[Ed Huntress]

....like, now. <g>

--
Ed Huntress

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 02:33:13 -0400, "Scout"

"any sort of government " is your loony tune addition.

"Name one example of right wing anti government militancy in this

country since the 70s." was you request.

The Sovereign Citizens Movement is a notable example of right wing
anti-government militancy in this country since the seventies .

>
>Dudu is at Strike 2, you are at Strike 1.
>
>Care to take your next swing at backing up your claim?

You are a joke.

The word of the FBI Counterterrorism Analysis Section is good enough
for most rational folk.

>
>
>>>Oh, and that doesn't mean they oppose the current government but rather
>>>they
>>>are against having ANY government.
>>>
>>>So....still waiting.
>>
>> Sure and the Oklahoma bombing never happened and the dead LEO's were
>> actors..right?
>>
>> pathetic.
>>
>> Meanwhile...back in the real world
>>
>> However, a closer look at sovereign citizens' more severe crimes, from
>> financial scams to impersonating or threatening law enforcement
>> officials, gives reason for concern. If someone challenges (e.g., a
>> standard traffic stop for false license plates) their ideology, the
>> behavior of these sovereign-citizen extremists quickly can escalate to
>> violence.
>
>And meanwhile in Usenet this still does NOT establish they are
>anti-government as you claimed.

To whose satisfaction..yours?
LOL!

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

NONE of them are "anti-government," you simpering chimp.

NOT ONE.

TRY AGAIN.

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

There's ONE. Is that all you can come up with?

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:49:56 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
<D...@null.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 May 2013 18:56:22 -0400, "Scout"
><me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"deep" wrote in message news:67p1p8hsutmr0h7m1...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 12 May 2013 23:16:57 -0500, RD Sandman
>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>And, who developed that received wisdom?
>>>>>
>>>>> Homeland Security, the FBI, independent security analysts, to name but
>>>>> three.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The left.
>>>>>
>>>>> They are "left" only in the delusions of vocal fanatics
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Whatever. You have your fantasies, I have mine.
>>>
>>> Name one example of left wing anti government militancy in this
>>> country since the 70s.
>>
>>Name one example of right wing anti government militancy in this
>>country since the 70s.
>
>Sure
>
>http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/322886
>
>Sovereign Citizens Movement � anti-government ideology:

Explain how someone who is "anti-government" can possibly be
"right-wing."

right-wing = the conservative or reactionary section of a political
party or system.

[Tom Gardner]

Hey, you're the ones doing 40,000,000 abortions. I was just helping you
with ideas of how to do it better and faster. What do you guys do with
all those dead babies?

[Tom Gardner]

I would be filthy rich had I designed and manufactured high-speed
abortion devices instead of boring, useful stuff. Maybe it's not too
late! Let me think about it for a while... I'll need some pregnant
women to experiment on. Plenty to choose from at what, 40,000 a day
that leftists give abortions to?

[Ed Huntress]

No you wouldn't. First, it's 3,200 per day in the US. Second, it's
already a quick procedure. If you want to make money at it, do illegal
ones. All you need is a few garden tools and some welding rod. That's
what you want to see anyway, isn't it?

Now, if you want to be a real entrepreneur and make big money, design
a PEZ dispenser for boner pills and sell them through the RNC's
mailing list of old white men.

--
Ed Huntress

[Scout]

"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <D...@null.net> wrote in message

news:29s3p89ag0uj0spio...@4ax.com...

If you approve of some type of government, then you can't be
anti-government.

QED.

So try it again, because your response failed before you got out of the
gate.

<snip>

[Tom Gardner]

I'd have to design something electric or powder actuated, like a Ram Set
fetus extractor. Maybe an attachment for a chain saw. The lefties
would LOVE me! Something to kill babies faster and more frequently is
exactly what the lefties need!

[Scout]

"Klaus Schadenfreude" <klausscha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8v64p8lgacqqoaevg...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:49:56 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 13 May 2013 18:56:22 -0400, "Scout"
>><me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"deep" wrote in message
>>>news:67p1p8hsutmr0h7m1...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 12 May 2013 23:16:57 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>And, who developed that received wisdom?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Homeland Security, the FBI, independent security analysts, to name
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> three.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The left.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are "left" only in the delusions of vocal fanatics
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Whatever. You have your fantasies, I have mine.
>>>>
>>>> Name one example of left wing anti government militancy in this
>>>> country since the 70s.
>>>
>>>Name one example of right wing anti government militancy in this
>>>country since the 70s.
>>
>>Sure
>>
>>http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/322886
>>

>>Sovereign Citizens Movement - anti-government ideology: Authorities

>>and monitors of militant right-wing extremist groups are increasingly
>>concerned about the threat posed by a subset of anti-government
>>radicals called "sovereign citizens."
>>
>>Sovereign citizens are a segment of the overall anti-government
>>movement and believe the government is illegitimate and has no
>>authority over them. They believe that they are not subject to U.S.
>>laws or taxation.
>>
>>The movement is a loosely organized collective of individuals and
>>groups with a largely anti-government ideology that was first
>>developed decades ago in white supremacist circles.
>>
>>In a September 2011 report the FBI noted that six law enforcement
>>officers were killed in the line of duty by lone wolf sovereign
>>citizens since 2000
>
> There's ONE. Is that all you can come up with?

I wouldn't even call it one since the source simply states that they
consider the government illegitimate. Which would tend to imply they would
approve of a legitimate government, and thus aren't anti-government. They
are simply anti illegitimate government.

[Gray Guest]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:f793p89523mf3ppl5...@4ax.com:

Um, so?

[Gray Guest]

GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in
news:0ik3p8l884phm81sq...@4ax.com:

> A Growing Domestic Threat to Law Enforcement
> By the FBI's Counterterrorism Analysis Section
>
>

Yeah becuase they are selling guns to the Mexican mob, spying on Patriot
groups and ignoring real terroists.

Is it any wonder what want to be rib of them?

Personally I see A Growing Domestic Threat from Law Enforcement

[Gunner Asch]

Hell...just redefine abortion and add killing the mother to it. Then
it becomes quite easy to do.

Afterall...its mostly Democrats that have abortions...and the loss
of 40,000,000 democrat women wouldnt really be a problem. And it
would relieve the cops from having to deal with so many hookers, porn
actresses and drug addicts. And news anchorettes of course...but thats
a subset of "brainless hookers" after all.

Sounds like a win win to me.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

You are quite mad not to mention disgusting.

Abortion is a traumatic experience for any woman young or old,and a
personal matter between a woman ,her doctor and the father if he is
involved.

Your weird contention that only those who vote Democrat have
terminations is idiotic and your disgusting necrophilia fantasies the
barometer of a sick mind.

[Tom Gardner]

Like one of your high priest of abortions said "Like meat in a
Crock-Pot" ...and you call ME disgusting. Look in the mirror,
disingenuous idiot.

[Tom Gardner]

The left is infatuated with abortions and gay sex...quite an odd
combination.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

You asked for one.You were given one.

>Is that all you can come up with?

1,723 others were cited for you funny man,you will have to make do
with those.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

I never realized you were such a political illiterate.
I guess you learn something new every day.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

I neither know nor care what you are raving about.

That you are disgusting is self-evident from the vile filth you are
posting to Usenet.

[Gunner Asch]

>> RaidŽ to a cockroach.

>> Sheriff Brody to a shark
>> Bush to a Liberal
>>
>> The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
>> up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
>> dick as a brake.
>>
>> They HATE the truth."
>>
>>
>
>
>The left is infatuated with abortions and gay sex...quite an odd
>combination.

They are mentally ill. Nothing more..nothing less.

--
"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.

RaidŽ to a cockroach.

[Liberals are VERMIN]

On May 10, 5:08 am, GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote:
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-t...

Ghetto CHIMPS are too F------- stupid to use a computer, so don't
worry too much.

[Liberals are VERMIN]

On May 10, 2:33 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
> GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote innews:m1epo8holn6aqonor...@4ax.com:
>
> >http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-of-State-to-
> > Defense-Distributed
>
> And the plans for the 3D gun probably got into distribution as fast as this
> letter.
>
> --
> Sleep well, tonight.....
>
> RD (The Sandman
>
> You can be young without money, but you
> can't be old without it.

But the Moslem APE in the White House thinks he can stop it! What a
F------ imbecile.

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

Your bigotry is only surpassed by your stupidity and ignorance.

Computer Scientists of the African Diaspora

http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/computer-science/ellis_clarencea.html

Skip (Clarence A.) Ellis

born: 1943; place: Chicago

B.S. Mathematics and Physics (1964) Beloit College

Ph.D. (1969) Computer Science University of Illinois
thesis: Probabilistic Languages and Automata; advisor: Professor David
Muller.

Professor of Computer Science, and Director of the Collaboration
Technology Research Group at the University of Colorado at Boulder

URL: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~skip/Home.html
email: email: Sk...@Colorado.edu

Clarence "Skip" Ellis was born in 1943 and grew up in a very poor
neighborhood of the south side of Chicago. His mother struggled to
raise five children by herself. Gangs and violence were common in
school. Skip wasn't one of the "cool" kids - he mostly kept to
himself. At the time, he was sad because he felt excluded from so many
things. Surprisingly, this helped him because he was able to avoid the
gangs, violence and problems some kids in his class got into.

At 15, Skip took a job at a local company to help support his family.
He was assigned the "graveyard shift," which meant he had to work all
night long. His job was to prevent break-ins and, most importantly,
not to touch the company's brand new computer! It was 1958 and
computers were very expensive and not very common. Since he had lots
of free time, he read the computer manuals that came with the
machines. He became a self-taught computer expert. One day, there was
a crisis at the company. They had an urgent project but had run out of
new punch cards. Early computers used punch cards to enter data and
without new cards, the project came to a halt. Skip was the only one
who knew how to reuse old cards. He changed some settings on the
computer and the old cards worked perfectly. He was a hero for a day!
This was his first real experience with a computer and it changed his
life.

Over the next couple of years, teachers recommended that Skip attend
summer programs at local universities. For the first time, Skip met
students outside of his neighborhood and became aware of university
life. Skip's family couldn't afford to send him to college. But, as he
was about to graduate from high school, the pastor in his family's
church learned about a scholarship at Beloit College. Beloit is
located in Wisconsin, about 100 miles northwest of Chicago. Skip won
the scholarship and, in the fall of 1960, arrived on campus. He
discovered that he was the only African-American attending the school!
Life in south Chicago was hard, but this was much worse. He felt very
alone. He soon learned that his classes were much more difficult than
any of those at his high school. Everyone seemed smarter, more aware
and better educated.

At Beloit, a teacher gave Ellis extra lessons in the subjects that
Skip was finding the most difficult, such as English. He studied
constantly and had no time to do many of the fun things that other
students seemed to enjoy. He even stayed on campus to study during
winter and summer breaks. Skip was so sad and lonely that he thought
about quitting many, many times. But he knew how proud his mother was
of his accomplishments. She had constantly encouraged him, saying, "be
your own person and follow your talents." He vowed to stay.

At the beginning of his junior year, a computer was donated to the
college. Skip and his chemistry professor were given the task of
setting it up. This was the start of the college's computer lab, and
it was a big event in Skip's life - he finally felt like he belonged.
He worked so long on the new computer that he sometimes slept
overnight in the lab.

During this period of time, the civil rights movement was gathering
momentum across the country. Skip was especially moved by the
non-violent protests of Dr. Martin Luther King. In August of 1963,
Skip was one of 250,000 people who went to Washington, D.C., to hear
Dr. King give his famous "I Have a Dream" speech from the steps of the
Lincoln Memorial. From then on, Skip's passions were computer science
and civil rights.

In 1964 he received a BS degree, double major in math and Physics,
from Beloit College. Clarence (Skip) Ellis attended graduate school in
Computer Science from the University of Illinois where he worked on
hardware, software, and applications of the Illiac 4 Supercomputer.
Clarence Ellis is the first African American to receive a Ph.D. in
Computer Science (1969).

After his Ph.D., he continued his work on supercomputers at Bell
Telephone Laboratories. Ellis has worked as a researcher and developer
at IBM, Xerox, Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation,
Los Alamos Scientific Labs, and Argonne National Lab.

His academic experience includes teaching at Stanford University, the
University of Texas, MIT, Stevens Institute of Technology, and in
Taiwan under an AFIPS overseas teaching fellowship.

Currently, Dr. Ellis is a Professor of Computer Science, and Director
of the Collaboration Technology Research Group at the University of
Colorado at Boulder. At Colorado, he is a member of the Systems
Software Lab, and the Institute for Cognitive Science.

During 1991, he was chief architect of the FlowPath workflow product
of Bull S.A. Previously he was the head of the Groupware Research
Group within the Software Technology Program at MCC. For the decade
prior to joining MCC, he was a research scientist at Xerox Palo Alto
Research Center.

Clarence (Skip) Ellis is on the editorial board of numerous journals,
and has been an active instigator and leader of a number of computer
associations and functions. He has been a member of the National
Science Foundation Computer Science Advisory Board; of the University
of Singapore ISS International Advisory Board; of the NSF Computer
Science Education Committee; and chairman of the ACM Special Interest
Group on Office Information Systems (SIGOIS).

RESEARCH

Dr. Skip Ellis has worked as a researcher and developer at Bell
Telephone Laboratories, IBM, Xerox, Microelectronics and Computer
Technology Corporation, Los Alamos Scientific Labs, and Argonne
National Lab. He has published several books, and over 100 technical
papers and reports, lectured in more than a dozen countries, and was
an invited speaker on object oriented systems at the most recent IFIP
World Computer Conference. His interests include groupware,
coordination theory, object oriented systems, CSCW, office systems,
databases, distributed systems, software engineering, world-wide-web
(internetworking), systems design and modeling, workflow systems, and
humane interfaces to computers.

SELECTED PUBLICATIONS

1. Ellis, Clarence A. Participatory Design in Groupware Systems.
Proceedings of the Groupware'96 Conference, August 1996. 44-52.

2. Ellis, Clarence A. A Workflow Architecture to Support Dynamic
Change. Workshop on Distributed Systems, Multimedia, and
Infrastrtucture, March 1995. 23-30.

3. Ellis, Clarence A. Goal Based Workflow Systems. International
Journal of Collaborative Computing, 1,no.1, 1994. pp.61-86.

4. Ellis, Clarence A. Technological Challenges in Groupware.
Proceedings of the Third International Workshop on Intelligent and
Cooperative Information Systems, April 1992. pp.121-132.

5. Ellis, Clarence A.; S. Gibbs; G. Rein Groupware: The Research and
Development Issues. Communications of the ACM, 34,1, 1991.

6. Ellis, Clarence A.; G. Rein rIBIS: A Real Time Group Hypertext
System. International Journal of Man Machine Systems, 34 (1991),
21-51.

7. Yeh, Show-Way; Ellis, Clarence A.; Ege, Aral; Korth, Henry F.
Performance analysis of two concurrency control schemes for design
environments. (English) [J] Inf. Sci. 49, No.1-3, 3-33 (1989).

8. Ellis, Clarence A. Probabilistic models of computer deadlock.
Inform. Sci. 12 (1977), no. 1, 43--60. 68B20 (68D25 68J10)

9. Ellis, Clarence A. Analysis of some abstract measures of protection
in computer systems. Internat. J. Comput. Inform. Sci. 7 (1978), no.
3, 219--251. 68B20

10. Ellis, Clarence A. Optimal scheduling of homogeneous job systems.
Information Sci. 9 (1975), no. 4, 323--358.

11. Ellis, Clarence A. The halting problem for probabilistic
context-free generators. J. Assoc. Comput. Mach. 19 (1972), 396--399.

12. Ellis, Clarence A. Probabilistic tree automata. Information and
Control 19 (1971), 401--416.

references: Dr. Ellis' web pages:
http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~skip/Home.html;
http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~skip/bioEllis.html

[Ed Huntress]

Eh, I think you're missing the big opportunity and misunderstanding
the market you're talking about. As soon as they heard you say
"babies" when you were talking about fetuses, they'd realize you were
mentally not quite right.

Meantime, you're missing a slam-dunk with the old white guys on the
RNC's list. Those guys would do anything to get a boner again.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 19:46:14 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>

Of course it does. When you're a self-indulgent underachiever, what's
left to boost your ego except ludicrous Walter Mitty fantasies and
wishful dreams about killing the people who you blame for holding you
back from your rightful station in life?

When killing pregnant women become a joke, you've forfeited your last
shred of decency, Gunner. Eating out of dumpsters and blaming others
for the enormous debt you've accumulated by disregarding personal
responsibility are symptoms. But this is the disease come to the
surface, like open gangrene with the pus running out on the floor.

You've really shot your wad. You ought to straighten yourself out
while there's still some time left.

--
Ed Huntress

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 22:14:03 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall

Actually, no, I wasn't given ANY.

They can't be right wing AND anti-government.

Want to try again?

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

On Tue, 14 May 2013 22:17:39 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall

I know YOU just did!

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 05:08:20 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude

Actually you were.

One prevalent sovereign-citizen theory is the Redemption Theory, which
claims the U.S. government went bankrupt when it abandoned the gold
standard basis for currency in 1933 and began using citizens as
collateral in trade agreements with foreign governments.2 These
beliefs can provide a gateway to illegal activity because such
individuals believe the U.S. government does not act in the best
interests of the American people. By announcing themselves as
sovereign citizens, they are emancipated from the responsibilities of
being a U.S. citizen, including paying taxes, possessing a state
driver�s license, or obeying the law.

>
>They can't be right wing AND anti-government.
>
>Want to try again?

Meanwhile. back in the real world, the Law Enforcement Officers
murdered by them remain dead and the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building
rermains bombed.


Illegal Activity

The Redemption Theory belief leads to their most prevalent method to
defraud banks, credit institutions, and the U.S. government: the
Redemption Scheme. Sovereign citizens believe that when the U.S.
government removed itself from the gold standard, it rendered U.S.
currency as a valueless credit note, exchanging one credit document
(such as a dollar bill) for another.

They assert that the U.S. government now uses citizens as collateral,
issuing social security numbers and birth certificates to register
people in trade agreements with other countries. Each citizen has a
monetary net worth, which they believe is kept in a U.S. Treasury
Direct account, valued from $630,000 to more than $3 million. These
accounts, they claim, are in a third-party�s name, a �strawman,� that
they can access, which they commonly refer to as �freeing money from
the strawman.� In essence, it is extorting money from the U.S.
Treasury Department. Sovereign citizens file legitimate IRS and
Uniform Commercial Code forms for illegitimate purposes, believing
that doing so correctly will compel the U.S. Treasury to fulfill its
debts, such as credit card debts, taxes, and mortgages.3

At a minimum, these activities create a voluminous influx of documents
that clog the courts and other government agencies. But, the idea
behind the Redemption Theory also leads sovereign citizens to find
criminal sources of income as they travel the country, teach
fraudulent tactics to others for a fee, and participate in white
collar crimes. The latter offenses include mail, bank, mortgage, and
wire fraud; money laundering; tax violations; and illegal firearms
sales and purchases.

At seminars, sovereign citizens charge participants a fee in exchange
for information on Redemption Theory schemes and other methods to
avoid paying taxes, sometimes even selling materials, such as CDs or
DVDs. They also sell fraudulent documents�including drivers� licenses,
passports, diplomat identification, vehicle registrations, concealed
firearms permits, law enforcement credentials, and insurance forms�to
other sovereign citizens and illegal immigrants and charge fees for
�consultant services� to prepare sovereign-citizen paperwork. Several
recent incidents highlight their activities.

In Sacramento, California, two sovereign-citizen extremists were
convicted of running a fraudulent insurance scheme, operating a
company completely outside of state insurance regulatory authorities.
The men sold �lifetime memberships� to customers and promised to pay
any accident claims against members. The company collected millions of
dollars, but paid only small auto insurance claims and ignored large
ones.4

In Kansas City, Missouri, three sovereign-citizen extremists were
convicted in a phony diplomatic credential scandal. They charged
customers between $450 and $2,000 for a diplomatic identification card
that bestowed �sovereign status,� supposedly to enjoy diplomatic
immunity from paying taxes and from stops and arrests by law
enforcement.5

In Las Vegas, Nevada, four men affiliated with the
sovereign-citizen-extremist movement were arrested by the Nevada Joint
Terrorism Task Force on federal money laundering, tax evasion, and
weapons charges. The undercover investigation revealed that two of the
suspects allegedly laundered more than a million dollars and collected
fees for their services.6

One example of a white collar crime that escalated into a standoff
includes a New Hampshire husband and wife convicted of federal income
tax evasion, failure to honor federal payroll taxes, and other
conspiracy fraud charges. Elaine A. and Edward L. Brown, both
sovereign-citizen extremists in their 60s, never appeared at their
2007 trial or at sentencing. In protest, the Browns barricaded
themselves in their home during the summer and fall of 2007, receiving
supporters, issuing militant and threatening statements, and
stockpiling weapons and explosives. They were charged with weapons
offenses after their arrest in October 2007 when law enforcement
discovered pipe bombs, improvised explosive devices made of gun powder
cans with nails and screws taped to the outside, and a large cache of
handguns and rifles that included .50-caliber rifles.7

However, even when sovereign citizens go to prison for crimes, they
continue criminal activity behind bars. Inmates provide a new
population for them to sway to adopt the sovereign-citizen ideology;
they then can train these inmates to help them defraud banks, credit
institutions, and the U.S. government. They can create fraudulent
businesses from inside prison walls and complete fraudulent financial
documents to receive lines of credit from legitimate banks. The
learning system goes both ways�inmates can teach sovereign citizens
new criminal methods that they can use either from inside the prison
or when they are released.

Indicators


It is important
to realize sovereign
citizens� tactics to
harass and intimidate
law enforcement,
court, and government
officials, as well as
financial institution
employees.

Sovereign citizens often produce documents that contain peculiar or
out-of-place language. In some cases, they speak their own language or
will write only in certain colors, such as in red crayon. Several
indicators can help identify
these individuals.

References to the Bible, The Constitution of the United States, U.S.
Supreme Court decisions, or treaties with foreign governments8
Personal names spelled in all capital letters or interspersed with
colons (e.g., JOHN SMITH or Smith: John)
Signatures followed by the words �under duress,� �Sovereign Living
Soul� (SLS), or a copyright symbol (�)
Personal seals, stamps, or thumb prints in red ink
The words �accepted for value�9
They also carry fraudulent drivers� licenses to indicate their view
that law enforcement does not have the authority to stop their vehicle
or may write �No Liability Accepted� above their signature on a
driver�s license to signify that they do not accept it as a legitimate
identification document.

Intimidation, Obstruction, and Protection

It is important to realize sovereign citizens� tactics to harass and
intimidate law enforcement, court, and government officials, as well
as financial institution employees. Methods can range from refusing to
cooperate with requests, demanding an oath of office or proof of
jurisdiction, filming interactions with law enforcement that they
later post on the Internet, and filing frivolous lawsuits or liens
against real property. They convene their own special courts that
issue fake but realistic-looking indictments, warrants, and other
documents. They also can use real government documents, including
suspicious activity reports, in an attempt to damage the credit or
financial history of specific individuals.

While these efforts may seem obviously fraudulent, it is important to
address these actions, which can have devastating outcomes for the
individuals they target. The sovereign citizens� efforts also can be a
gateway for them to harass, terrorize, and target others in hopes of
changing behaviors that they perceive as threatening.

The Court Security Improvement Act of 2007 is one protection for
officials who the sovereign citizens could target. The provisions
under Title 18 created a new criminal offense for false liens against
the real or personal property of officers or federal government
employees, including judges and prosecutors. It also created as a new
crime the disclosure of personal, identifying information to
intimidate or incite violence against these individuals.1

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 06:34:03 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall

Actually I wasn't.

You can't be "right-wing" and "anti-government."

The two are mutually exclusive.

Know what that means?

[chuckle]

[GOP_Decline_and_Fall]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 05:08:37 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude

Klaus, you don't seem to know your ass from a hole in the ground.