Re: Dump your CAM & get Cimatron

Cliff

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May 22, 2009, 7:11:00 AM5/22/09

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On Thu, 7 May 2009 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:

>On May 6, 6:45�am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 May 2009 02:42:34 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:
>> >Here's a perfect example of integrated CAD/CAM
>>
>> >http://www.cimatron.com/Main/pressreleases.aspx?FolderID=68&docID=980...
>>
>> � What if the Palestinians take it over?
>> � Dose it phone home to mama?
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>I'm think'in it' be the other way around. Israel taking over Palestin.
>Those Palestinians are freekin nuts.Oh lets just launch some bombs
>over to Israel & see what happens? What do you think is gonna
>happen? They have an air force! your freekin dead! get it ya dumb
>asses.
>oh man all for a little strip of land.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1087331.html
"Israel's military option against Iran has died. The death warrant was issued
courtesy of the new US administration led by Barack Obama."

WW III is looking less likely.
The neocons & wingers must be depressed.
--
Cliff

hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com

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May 22, 2009, 8:56:57 AM5/22/09

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> Cliff- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Not surprised that you side with Ahmadinejad.

Begin quote:

Iran at the time was subject to an intense international offensive.
Inspectors of the International Atomic Energy Agency repeatedly
exposed its lies and levied sanctions against the Tehran regime.

Threats made by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to wipe Israel from the
map and his insistence on denying the Holocaust aroused great sympathy
for Israel. This sympathy was buttressed by the Olmert government's
willingness to hold peace talks with Syria and seek an agreement with
the Palestinians.

Cliff

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May 22, 2009, 7:53:14 PM5/22/09

to

Free clue:
haaretz.com is
Haaretz Daily Newspaper
Tel Aviv, Israel

>Threats made by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to wipe Israel from the
>map and his insistence on denying the Holocaust aroused great sympathy
>for Israel. This sympathy was buttressed by the Olmert government's
>willingness to hold peace talks with Syria and seek an agreement with
>the Palestinians.

By bombing their schools & hospitals & etc.
--
Cliff

hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com

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May 22, 2009, 11:16:45 PM5/22/09

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On May 22, 7:53 pm, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:

So the weapons inspectors were really undercover reporters from the
israeli press???

> >Threats made by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to wipe Israel from the
> >map and his insistence on denying the Holocaust aroused great sympathy
> >for Israel. This sympathy was buttressed by the Olmert government's
> >willingness to hold peace talks with Syria and seek an agreement with
> >the Palestinians.
>
> By bombing their schools & hospitals & etc.
> --
> Cliff

Cliffie, quit attacking Israel then scurrying into schools and
hospitals for cover.

Cliff

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May 23, 2009, 9:04:12 AM5/23/09

to

The ones in Iraq?
CIA at the very least, some of them.

Do you have them confused with Iran & the IAEC?
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Board/2009/gov2009-8.pdf

Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and, AFAIK,
cannot be said not to be in compliance with it.
Israel is NOT a signatory to it and clearly is in violation.

>> >Threats made by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to wipe Israel from the
>> >map and his insistence on denying the Holocaust aroused great sympathy
>> >for Israel. This sympathy was buttressed by the Olmert government's
>> >willingness to hold peace talks with Syria and seek an agreement with
>> >the Palestinians.
>>
>> � By bombing their schools & hospitals & etc.
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>Cliffie, quit attacking Israel then scurrying into schools and
>hospitals for cover.

Interesting that the schools & hospitals are right at the (ever-shrinking)
borders .. in your opine.
But not far from 40,000 feet.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/UN_Agency_Debates_Israel_Nuclear_Programme_999.html
[
.... Israel "a uniquely grave threat" to world peace because of its alleged
nuclear weapons Thursday, after the UN atomic agency sharply cut aid to Tehran
because of its own atomic programme. "Nuclear weapons in the hands of the
Israeli regime with ... a long and dark catalogue of crimes and atrocity such as
occupation, aggression, militarism, state terrorism, crimes against humanity and
apartheid pose a uniquely grave threat to regional and international peace and
security,"
]
[
Iran and Arab states complain that it is unfair to scrutinize Tehran for
allegedly developing nuclear weapons when Israel has them and is not under IAEA
monitoring, as it has not signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).
....
Israeli ambassador Israel Mechaeli told the IAEA board that Israel had no reason
to announce any changes in its nuclear policy, diplomats told AFP.
]

UN Resolution 487: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
nuclear facility".
United Nations Security Council Resolution 487 "Calls upon Israel urgently to
place its nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards".

HTH
--
Cliff

hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com

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May 23, 2009, 10:34:39 AM5/23/09

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On May 23, 9:04 am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:

Almost interesting that you never address the tactic of hiding behind
skirts and bibs but are fully prepared to run a story about how awful
Americans or Israelis are when they go ahead and take the shot.

You must remember that the women, children and infirm they hide behind
are their wives and mothers, and their children. If the wives and
mothers and children don't like being used for cover, they can slip a
sharp knife into the neck of their loved-one terrorist husbands and
sons and quit living in fear.

Thanks for asking, bozo.

> http://www.spacewar.com/reports/UN_Agency_Debates_Israel_Nuclear_Prog...

> [
> .... Israel "a uniquely grave threat" to world peace because of its alleged
> nuclear weapons Thursday, after the UN atomic agency sharply cut aid to Tehran
> because of its own atomic programme. "Nuclear weapons in the hands of the
> Israeli regime with ... a long and dark catalogue of crimes and atrocity such as
> occupation, aggression, militarism, state terrorism, crimes against humanity and
> apartheid pose a uniquely grave threat to regional and international peace and
> security,"
> ]
> [
> Iran and Arab states complain that it is unfair to scrutinize Tehran for
> allegedly developing nuclear weapons when Israel has them and is not under IAEA
> monitoring, as it has not signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).
> ....
> Israeli ambassador Israel Mechaeli told the IAEA board that Israel had no reason
> to announce any changes in its nuclear policy, diplomats told AFP.
> ]
>
> UN Resolution 487: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
> nuclear facility".
> United Nations Security Council Resolution 487 "Calls upon Israel urgently to
> place its nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards".
>
> HTH
> --

jon_banquer

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May 23, 2009, 11:35:53 AM5/23/09

to

On May 23, 7:34 am, hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Almost interesting that you never address the tactic of hiding behind
> skirts and bibs but are fully prepared to run a story about how awful
> Americans or Israelis are when they go ahead and take the shot.
>
> You must remember that the women, children and infirm they hide behind
> are their wives and mothers, and their children. If the wives and
> mothers and children don't like being used for cover, they can slip a
> sharp knife into the neck of their loved-one terrorist husbands and
> sons and quit living in fear.
>
> Thanks for asking, bozo.

Is there some reason you haven't figured out by now that he's been
badly out smarted and been badly beaten by Jews in everything he's
tried his hand at and that's why he hates Jews.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

mil...@cin.net

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May 24, 2009, 3:17:09 AM5/24/09

to

All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
Cimatron. I was thinking this morning, (again) If there was any
surface I could not manipulte, re-trim, extend, recreate or anything I
could not do with Cimatron's surface/wireframe tools......... the
answer is no. I can take a little bitty trimmed surface - restore it
to the original "parent" surface, drag the U & V corners to any size I
need- still maintaing the original surface curvature's & re-trimm to
my hearts desire. Lets see some other fully integrated CAD&CAM systems
do that. Oh well I guess most people don't have to ever do that- I
guess- I sure do with all the f-uped cad data thats been created by
other systems- like oh.......... CATIA!.
Oh another FYI about cimascam<g>, for as much "HorsePower" it has, it
will run on a "bare bones" computer. What does that tell ya bout how
the code was written?
Like I said, some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for Cimatron. To bad
they can't get along with their neighbors.

=================================================
______
/_____/\ Best Regards,
/____ \\ \ Gil Pawl
/_____\ \\ / HOLDZEM©®
/_____/ \/ / /
/_____/ / \//\ West Chicago, IL
\_____\//\ / / USA
\_____/ / /\ / Fax : (555) 555-5555
\_____/ \\ \ Cell: (555) 555-5555
\_____\ \\ Email: m....@cin.net
\_____\/

==================================================

BottleBob

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May 24, 2009, 5:47:50 AM5/24/09

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mil...@cin.net wrote:

> I was thinking this morning, (again) If there was any

> surface I could not manipulate, re-trim, extend, recreate or anything I

> could not do with Cimatron's surface/wireframe tools.........

MilGil:

How about machining me up some of these:

http://tinyurl.com/p2y5y2

http://tinyurl.com/peffhe

http://tinyurl.com/p25fvm

LOL

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Cliff

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May 24, 2009, 6:01:05 AM5/24/09

to

They are the invaders.
Then you whine that they killed the natives in their homes,
as if they should have moved to Alaska to let the invaders work
their will freely.
You did not even offer to pay for the move & their expenses.

>You must remember that the women, children and infirm they hide behind
>are their wives and mothers, and their children. If the wives and
>mothers and children don't like being used for cover, they can slip a
>sharp knife into the neck of their loved-one terrorist husbands and
>sons and quit living in fear.

Or you & your kind could stop killing them in their homes & on their land
& taking their stuff.

>
>Thanks for asking, bozo.

Wingers really are idiots.

>> http://www.spacewar.com/reports/UN_Agency_Debates_Israel_Nuclear_Prog...
>> [
>> .... Israel "a uniquely grave threat" to world peace because of its alleged
>> nuclear weapons Thursday, after the UN atomic agency sharply cut aid to Tehran
>> because of its own atomic programme. "Nuclear weapons in the hands of the
>> Israeli regime with ... a long and dark catalogue of crimes and atrocity such as
>> occupation, aggression, militarism, state terrorism, crimes against humanity and
>> apartheid pose a uniquely grave threat to regional and international peace and
>> security,"
>> ]
>> [
>> Iran and Arab states complain that it is unfair to scrutinize Tehran for
>> allegedly developing nuclear weapons when Israel has them and is not under IAEA
>> monitoring, as it has not signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).
>> ....
>> Israeli ambassador Israel Mechaeli told the IAEA board that Israel had no reason
>> to announce any changes in its nuclear policy, diplomats told AFP.
>> ]
>>
>> �UN Resolution 487: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
>> nuclear facility".
>> � United Nations Security Council Resolution 487 "Calls upon Israel urgently to
>> place its nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards".
>>
>> HTH
>> --
>> Cliff- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

--
Cliff

Cliff

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May 24, 2009, 6:04:03 AM5/24/09

to

On Sat, 23 May 2009 08:35:53 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer <jon_b...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Nobody ever claimed you are not an idiot.
I don't hate Jews. They are as welcome to their crazed
superstitions as any other cult, even when they are racists.
And wingers of any stripe take stupid pills.
--
Cliff

Cliff

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May 24, 2009, 6:14:52 AM5/24/09

to

On Sun, 24 May 2009 00:17:09 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:

>All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
>Cimatron. I was thinking this morning, (again) If there was any
>surface I could not manipulte, re-trim, extend, recreate or anything I
>could not do with Cimatron's surface/wireframe tools......... the
>answer is no. I can take a little bitty trimmed surface - restore it
>to the original "parent" surface,

The parent surface is no doubt still there under it's trimmed
representation.

>drag the U & V corners to any size I
>need- still maintaing the original surface curvature's

Kind of hard to do as moving a control or knot point
influences the surface (how many other control points away
depends on the degree of the surface).

>& re-trimm to
>my hearts desire. Lets see some other fully integrated CAD&CAM systems
>do that.

Any that has pure surface capabilities I'd think (though some did not
allow direct user manipulation of control/knot points once the surface
was defined IIRC).

>Oh well I guess most people don't have to ever do that- I
>guess- I sure do with all the f-uped cad data thats been created by
>other systems- like oh.......... CATIA!.

A poor designer is a poor designer & a pretty picture
does not a sound CAD model make (except in banquerland).

> Oh another FYI about cimascam<g>, for as much "HorsePower" it has, it
>will run on a "bare bones" computer. What does that tell ya bout how
>the code was written?

The data structures in surface & wireframe modelers are usually
pretty explicit, unlike parametric soilds modelers (with history) where
things are all related & driven ..
You'll have much smaller part file sizes too.
Kinda low-tech these days <g>.
--
Cliff

mil...@cin.net

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May 24, 2009, 8:38:16 AM5/24/09

to

BB strikes again! Thank you. That's exactly what I been looking 4! I
have a collection things & pic.s like that. Another bunch of shit I
have to look 4 & post on the net. Oh the best was the 57 Chevy or the
plane that Acad used to distibute. I imported it in to MC at the
time. Flat as a pancake! But when engraved, it looks 3D! When CNC
maching of shapes like those, its very important to use the correct
raw material. I prefer unabtainium. Its the best.
Oh shit you guys are machinists! That my shpeial when I talk to the
bean counters at companies. I wait to see how long it takes them to
get it. LOL
A buddy of mine has a 2D lazer cutter. Thats allot more fun the CNC
machining. Guess I been witle'n steel to long? Everthing else looks
like more fun!
Oh well, when I grow up I want to be like?...........
Hmmm I'll get back to ya.

OK new Cimatron sub topic:
Who, in your whole life, is your personal hero?
It can not be a relative. No Moms, Dads ect.
Living or deceesed
no religious guys like Jesus or Pope Pius, Dolly lama
Alla ect.

Mine:
Henry Ford the 1st.
2nd Einstein
3rd Tommy Edison.
4th whats his name?/////???/ oh ya Froyd-- schyco man

Now ya know y I'm nuts
Although Moldmakers, Machinists people are nuts in general. Ok
politic;y correct : we are a different "bread"

#26
Respect is not casually "given" it is earned
Respect yourself. Is the first lesson learned
If you aren't getting the amount you're due
Then you should look honestly inside of YOU

BB will you take a doz Holdzems for your entire collection of those?
<g>

\|||/
(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~
the HOLDZEM©® king

Cliff

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May 24, 2009, 9:18:35 AM5/24/09

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http://www.eyetricks.com/illusions.htm

mil...@cin.net

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May 24, 2009, 9:19:15 AM5/24/09

to

On May 24, 5:14 am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 May 2009 00:17:09 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:
> >All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
> >Cimatron. I was thinking this morning, (again) If there was any
> >surface I could not manipulte, re-trim, extend, recreate or anything I
> >could not do with Cimatron's surface/wireframe tools......... the
> >answer is no. I can take a little bitty trimmed surface - restore it
> >to the original "parent" surface,
>
> The parent surface is no doubt still there under it's trimmed
> representation.
>
> >drag the U & V corners to any size I
> >need- still maintaing the original surface curvature's
>
> Kind of hard to do as moving a control or knot point
> influences the surface (how many other control points away
> depends on the degree of the surface).
>
> >& re-trimm to
> >my hearts desire. Lets see some other fully integrated CAD&CAM systems
> >do that.
>
> Any that has pure surface capabilities I'd think (though some did not
> allow direct user manipulation of control/knot points once the surface
> was defined IIRC).

Oh ya Cimaton can work with add if necessary more knots or control
points if so desired.

>
> >Oh well I guess most people don't have to ever do that- I
> >guess- I sure do with all the f-uped cad data thats been created by
> >other systems- like oh.......... CATIA!.
>
> A poor designer is a poor designer & a pretty picture
> does not a sound CAD model make (except in banquerland).

You are right on. What ever system you design on, learn it inside &
out. You know what its short comeings are & its stong points. The work
arounds, the short cuts, hot keys ect. The command the gives you a
BSOD!
I worked on Pro/E fer a while. My predicesser had common Blo-e menu
stuctures defined in KB hot keys. Worked F-in great! once you
memorized it. Otherwise I'm hunting & searching the factory menus -
I'm lost!
Cimatron has that agility to define your own personal hot keys & also
re organize the entire menu structure to fit your own needs- exactly
the stuff you use all the time. You can eliminate 5 mouse picks with
the touch of a KB button. Now that's efficiency.
Sorry to say, its hard to convince most about working efficient. Iv'e
worked with guys that, if you'd look at them during the day, they
never looked like they did anything. But at the end of their job or
any job He helped on - everything comes together & works perfect!
So moral of the story?
Work hard not smart............opps
U no what I mean.

>
> > Oh another FYI about cimascam<g>, for as much "HorsePower" it has, it
> >will run on a "bare bones" computer. What does that tell ya bout how
> >the code was written?
>
> The data structures in surface & wireframe modelers are usually
> pretty explicit, unlike parametric soilds modelers (with history) where
> things are all related & driven ..
> You'll have much smaller part file sizes too.
> Kinda low-tech these days <g>.

Oh speaking of data & files Cimatron makes.
You never loose any data more than 1-2 commands ago should the power
go out or a bad command issued that "hangs" the CPU. Due to ?? AMD or
INTEL or combo of mem chips or vidieo card or U know what I
mean.circumtances beyond my control
Anyway Cimatron uses a continuous use of back-up file running in the
background. Every time a totally new command is started it writes to
the .BAC file.
It is seamless & It doest not! slow the puter down!
So in all the years I've used Cimatron..... I've lost maybe a total
of ? an hour? worth of work due to circumtances beyond my control.
How many other systems can claim that? Ya Ive used others that you can
turn on "auto-save" every so many minutes, but they blow. The puter
pauses just as its writing to the HD & f's ya up. Forget that. turn it
off. Just train yourself to stop, "autosave" & then walk away or
every? minutes.
Another hard one to train.

=================================================
______
/_____/\ Best Regards,
/____ \\ \ Gil Pawl
/_____\ \\ / HOLDZEM©®

/_____/ \/ / / PO. Box XXX
/_____/ / \//\ West Chicago, IL 55555

\_____\//\ / / USA

\_____/ / /\ / Fax : (555) TE7-6969
\_____/ \\ \ Cell: (555) QU9-9000
\_____\ \\ Email: m.......c.net
\_____\/ HOLDZEM©®
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/pic6.jpg
download my self running demo:

\|||/
(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~
the HOLDZEM©® king

DEMO
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/Holdzem1.exe
==================================================

Special alt.machines.cnc offer:
Send me your mailing address by e-mail & I'll send you some Holdzem's
for the cost of USPS, around $3-4 in US.
otherwise:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280297868987&category=158950&sspagename=rvi:1:1v_

> --
> Cliff

Cliff

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May 24, 2009, 10:00:15 AM5/24/09

to

On Sun, 24 May 2009 06:19:15 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:

>Sorry to say, its hard to convince most about working efficient.

Third time you do something think of it as a routine taxk & think
of a way to increase your automation of it.
Think in terms of design features, etc. too.
--
Cliff

jon_banquer

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May 24, 2009, 11:58:33 AM5/24/09

to

On May 24, 12:17 am, mil...@cin.net wrote:

> All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
> Cimatron.

They do a lot of other things well... like leave Cimatron and start
other
CADCAM companies, make innovations in wireless, start companies
that would never buy cheap Chinese Kurt vise knock offs, etc.

>To bad they can't get along with their neighbors.

Too bad most of Israel’s neighbors can't figure out that Israel has
the right to exist. As a result they get their ass handed to them on a
constant basis.

Speaking of not being able to figure out the basics:

Cimatron had to buy Gibbscam (which needs a total rewrites from the
ground up) because after all these years Cimatron still can't figure
out how to market and still hasn't developed a production CADCAM
system like those who have left Cimatron have.

Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is pure crap and no one with clue one uses it
to model with. Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is the worst laid out solid /
surface modeler I've ever used. It's the Chinese Kurt knock off vise
of the CADCAM solid / surface modeler market.

BottleBob

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May 24, 2009, 5:52:38 PM5/24/09

to

mil...@cin.net wrote:
> On May 24, 4:47 am, BottleBob <bottl...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> How about machining me up some of these:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/p2y5y2
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/peffhe
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/p25fvm
>>
>> LOL

>

> BB strikes again! Thank you. That's exactly what I been looking 4!

> When CNC
> maching of shapes like those, its very important to use the correct
> raw material. I prefer unabtainium. Its the best.

MilGil:

I can't find it on the periodic table of the elements.
..........Yeah right. LOL

> A buddy of mine has a 2D lazer cutter. Thats allot more fun the CNC
> machining. Guess I been witle'n steel to long? Everthing else looks
> like more fun!
> Oh well, when I grow up I want to be like?...........
> Hmmm I'll get back to ya.
>
>
> OK new Cimatron sub topic:
> Who, in your whole life, is your personal hero?

> Mine:

> Henry Ford the 1st.
> 2nd Einstein
> 3rd Tommy Edison.
> 4th whats his name?/////???/ oh ya Froyd-- schyco man

Well, I'd probably pick a list of who's who in science.

>
> #26
> Respect is not casually "given" it is earned
> Respect yourself. Is the first lesson learned
> If you aren't getting the amount you're due
> Then you should look honestly inside of YOU
>
> BB will you take a doz Holdzems for your entire collection of those?
> <g>

Well, I only made 116 of them. And some of them have never seen the
light of day - since they are pretty raunchy (but you might get a kick
out of them - as you seem like THAT kind of guy). So I'll send them to
you. They're in WordPerfect format - let's see if I can E-mail them in
plain text.

Here's a sig. about my sigs.

#24
Some are cute
Some are funny
Some are astute
Some seem by a dummy

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

mil...@cin.net

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May 27, 2009, 7:58:44 PM5/27/09

to

On May 24, 5:14 am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 24 May 2009 00:17:09 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:
> >All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
> >Cimatron. I was thinking this morning, (again) If there was any
> >surface I could not manipulte, re-trim, extend, recreate or anything I
> >could not do with Cimatron's surface/wireframe tools......... the
> >answer is no. I can take a little bitty trimmed surface - restore it
> >to the original "parent" surface,
>
> The parent surface is no doubt still there under it's trimmed
> representation.

Well yes & no........ by manipulatuing the surface U & V corners you
are creating an new parent. Some surfaces, depending on type, can be
re-restored back to original. Once your happy with the new surface,
there's another command to take a surface & convert it to Bezier.
Those types of surfaces machine fast(computer time) but are less
accurite in deffinition. Surfaces can also be smoothed, bow-tie type
surfaces can be fixed or recreated. Surf sections can be taken
anywhere with line/arc/circle,curve geometry output. The surfaceing
cabibilities in Cimatron is the best I've seen. But who wants to
surface nowadays? Solids are the best. Cimatron E's new hybrid surface/
solid modeler is slick. It uses whats considered an "open solid" if
that makes sense?

>
> >drag the U & V corners to any size I
> >need- still maintaing the original surface curvature's
>
> Kind of hard to do as moving a control or knot point
> influences the surface (how many other control points away
> depends on the degree of the surface).

Need more control points ( or less) just add them or delete!

>
> >& re-trimm to
> >my hearts desire. Lets see some other fully integrated CAD&CAM systems
> >do that.
>
> Any that has pure surface capabilities I'd think (though some did not
> allow direct user manipulation of control/knot points once the surface
> was defined IIRC).

Some surface geometry imports cause Cimatron to "auto magically" fix
them.Surfaces that can not be fixed are restored to un trimmed
original & its color/font is changed alerting you about it. Also
groups of adjoining surfaces can be made in to a composite type
surface- if U & V's are going in the same direction. If not those can
be changed too! What can't it do? I'm still searching.

>
> >Oh well I guess most people don't have to ever do that- I
> >guess- I sure do with all the f-uped cad data thats been created by
> >other systems- like oh.......... CATIA!.
>
> A poor designer is a poor designer & a pretty picture
> does not a sound CAD model make (except in banquerland).
>
> > Oh another FYI about cimascam<g>, for as much "HorsePower" it has, it
> >will run on a "bare bones" computer. What does that tell ya bout how
> >the code was written?

Some other systems, when screen rotating are a dawg! Shade the
wireframe - dawg. Not in Cimatron smooth dynamic rotation of zooming,
panning all within a command sequence any time with a special set of
"immediate functions" to turn on hidden levels & masks ect.

>
> The data structures in surface & wireframe modelers are usually
> pretty explicit, unlike parametric soilds modelers (with history) where

like Parametric Technology Corp. PTC? Pro/E ? oh sorry its now called
"wildfire" I'd would have liked to build a fire & through it in there
in times past.<g>

> things are all related & driven ..

its a Parent / Child thing.

> You'll have much smaller part file sizes too.
> Kinda low-tech these days <g>.

some times (most of the time) the old tech is still good.

> --
> Cliff

=================================================
______
/_____/\ Best Regards,
/____ \\ \ Gil Pawl
/_____\ \\ / HOLDZEM©®

/_____/ \/ / / PO. Box XXX
/_____/ / \//\ West Chicago, IL 55555

\_____\//\ / / USA

\_____/ / /\ / Fax : (555) TE7-6969
\_____/ \\ \ Cell: (555) QU9-9000
\_____\ \\ Email: m.......c.net
\_____\/ HOLDZEM©®
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/pic6.jpg
download my self running demo:
\|||/
(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~
the HOLDZEM©® king

DEMO
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/Holdzem1.exe
==================================================

PS sorry I'm late on this one:

Cimatron Tooling Tips Webinar!
Greetings!

Join us on Wednesday, May 27th, for our monthly Tooling Tips webinar
designed to help you get the ultimate performance out of your Cimatron
software. Start saving time and increasing productivity by attending
our monthly webinar and get the best out of your software.

Please note that if you have already registered for this event, you do
not need to re-register.
May Tooling Tips Webinar
Event Details computer hardware
Date: Wednesday, May 27th
Time: 2:00pm - 3:00pm EDT
Topic: Mold Design: Inserts, Ejection, and Cooling

Register to Attend

Contact Information
email: in...@cimatrontech.com
phone: (877) 596-9700
web: http://www.cimatrontech.com

Join our mailing list!

Cliff

unread,

May 29, 2009, 6:34:11 AM5/29/09

to

On Sun, 24 May 2009 08:58:33 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer <jon_b...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Too bad most of Israel�s neighbors can't figure out that Israel has

>the right to exist. As a result they get their ass handed to them on a
>constant basis.

Obama seems to be doing a lot of spanking ..... it's about time.
Long past, actually.

http://www.hrw.org/en/features/israel-gaza
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

May 29, 2009, 6:35:08 AM5/29/09

to

On Sun, 24 May 2009 08:58:33 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer <jon_b...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is pure crap and no one with clue one uses it
>to model with.

IOW You don't have a clue & it works just fine for
actual users.

HTH
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

May 29, 2009, 6:48:55 AM5/29/09

to

On Sun, 24 May 2009 06:19:15 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:

>On May 24, 5:14�am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 May 2009 00:17:09 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:
>> >All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
>> >Cimatron. I was thinking this morning, (again) If there was any
>> >surface I could not manipulte, re-trim, extend, recreate or anything I
>> >could not do with Cimatron's surface/wireframe tools......... the
>> >answer is no. I can take a little bitty trimmed surface - restore it
>> >to the original "parent" surface,
>>
>> � The parent surface is no doubt still there under it's trimmed
>> representation.
>>
>> >drag the U & V corners to any size I
>> >need- still maintaing the original surface curvature's �
>>
>> � Kind of hard to do as moving a control or knot point
>> influences the surface (how many other control points away
>> depends on the degree of the surface).
>>
>> >& re-trimm to
>> >my hearts desire. Lets see some other fully integrated CAD&CAM systems
>> >do that.
>>
>> � Any that has pure surface capabilities I'd think (though some did not
>> allow direct user manipulation of control/knot points once the surface
>> was defined IIRC).
>Oh ya Cimaton can work with add if necessary more knots or control
>points if so desired.

Not unusual for any system that allows edits to surface data.

>>
>> >Oh well I guess most people don't have to ever do that- I
>> >guess- I sure do with all the f-uped cad data thats been created by
>> >other systems- like oh.......... CATIA!.
>>
>> � A poor designer is a poor designer & a pretty picture
>> does not a sound CAD model make (except in banquerland).
>
>You are right on. What ever system you design on, learn it inside &
>out.

Don't be a banquer <g>.

>You know what its short comeings are & its stong points. The work
>arounds, the short cuts, hot keys ect. The command the gives you a
>BSOD!

Or the CADDS III error thet tells you to report to some guy
in England ... (still awaiting my airfare).

> I worked on Pro/E fer a while. My predicesser had common Blo-e menu
>stuctures defined in KB hot keys. Worked F-in great! once you
>memorized it. Otherwise I'm hunting & searching the factory menus -
>I'm lost!
>Cimatron has that agility to define your own personal hot keys & also
>re organize the entire menu structure to fit your own needs- exactly
>the stuff you use all the time. You can eliminate 5 mouse picks with
>the touch of a KB button. Now that's efficiency.

Lots of systems that banquer never used ...

>Sorry to say, its hard to convince most about working efficient. Iv'e
>worked with guys that, if you'd look at them during the day, they
>never looked like they did anything. But at the end of their job or
>any job He helped on - everything comes together & works perfect!
>So moral of the story?
>Work hard not smart............opps
>U no what I mean.
>>
>> > Oh another FYI about cimascam<g>, for as much "HorsePower" it has, it
>> >will run on a "bare bones" computer. What does that tell ya bout how
>> >the code was written?
>>
>> � The data structures in surface & wireframe modelers are usually
>> pretty explicit, unlike parametric soilds modelers (with history) where
>> things are all related & driven ..
>> � You'll have much smaller part file sizes too.
>> � Kinda low-tech these days <g>.
>
>Oh speaking of data & files Cimatron makes.
>You never loose any data more than 1-2 commands ago should the power
>go out or a bad command issued that "hangs" the CPU. Due to ??

CV had the checkpoint part.

> AMD or
>INTEL or combo of mem chips or vidieo card or U know what I
>mean.circumtances beyond my control
>Anyway Cimatron uses a continuous use of back-up file running in the
>background. Every time a totally new command is started it writes to
>the .BAC file.

Writing (& filing) an executable journal file I expect.

>It is seamless & It doest not! slow the puter down!

Small file. Rapid disk access, perhaps in background.

>So in all the years I've used Cimatron..... I've lost maybe a total
>of ? an hour? worth of work due to circumtances beyond my control.
>How many other systems can claim that? Ya Ive used others that you can
>turn on "auto-save" every so many minutes, but they blow. The puter
>pauses just as its writing to the HD & f's ya up.

Many current systems use a multitude of files in memory ... and
have to repackage them to file the part, open a part, etc.
Some may compress the part file, remove empty space (from deleted entities
[they are probaby just marked as deleted in the pointers but stilthere as unused
data -- faster sequential file that way] & etc), ...

CV's Pack DBA command took care of this, in case you did not know.

You should get with PV.
He makes a thing ideal for hanging a ton of those from <G>.
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

May 29, 2009, 7:10:43 AM5/29/09

to

On Wed, 27 May 2009 16:58:44 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:

>On May 24, 5:14�am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 May 2009 00:17:09 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:
>> >All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
>> >Cimatron. I was thinking this morning, (again) If there was any
>> >surface I could not manipulte, re-trim, extend, recreate or anything I
>> >could not do with Cimatron's surface/wireframe tools......... the
>> >answer is no. I can take a little bitty trimmed surface - restore it
>> >to the original "parent" surface,
>>
>> � The parent surface is no doubt still there under it's trimmed
>> representation.
>
>Well yes & no........ by manipulatuing the surface U & V corners you
>are creating an new parent.

Or are you just editing the existing one's data?
Or perhaps an option to do either?

>Some surfaces, depending on type, can be
>re-restored back to original.

??
What types are supported?

>Once your happy with the new surface,
>there's another command to take a surface & convert it to Bezier.
>Those types of surfaces machine fast(computer time) but are less
>accurite in deffinition.

A Bezier surface is an accurate Bezier surface.
Perhaps the translation ... ?

(CV's CADDS IV ASD package used Bezier.)

>Surfaces can also be smoothed, bow-tie type
>surfaces can be fixed or recreated.

Applications software tools.

>Surf sections can be taken
>anywhere with line/arc/circle,curve geometry output. The surfaceing
>cabibilities in Cimatron is the best I've seen. But who wants to
>surface nowadays? Solids are the best.

Except many solids modelers have a real problem with freeform
surfaces.
They like things parametric & constrained with history too ... where
are your parametrics & constraints?
You don't usually have such in explicit surface modelers last I knew.
You'd need something like views & dimensions for each control point ...

>Cimatron E's new hybrid surface/
>solid modeler is slick. It uses whats considered an "open solid" if
>that makes sense?

Some systems use "zero thickness solids".

>>
>> >drag the U & V corners to any size I
>> >need- still maintaing the original surface curvature's �
>>
>> � Kind of hard to do as moving a control or knot point
>> influences the surface (how many other control points away
>> depends on the degree of the surface).
>
>Need more control points ( or less) just add them or delete!

Where is your control of degree & perhaps tangency?
Let's ask jb <BSEG>.

>>
>> >& re-trimm to
>> >my hearts desire. Lets see some other fully integrated CAD&CAM systems
>> >do that.
>>
>> � Any that has pure surface capabilities I'd think (though some did not
>> allow direct user manipulation of control/knot points once the surface
>> was defined IIRC).
>
>Some surface geometry imports cause Cimatron to "auto magically" fix

>them. Surfaces that can not be fixed are restored to un trimmed

>original & its color/font is changed alerting you about it. Also
>groups of adjoining surfaces can be made in to a composite type
>surface- if U & V's are going in the same direction.

A surface is sort of like an MxN array of control points ...
if you just reorder to get an NxM surface you've swapped
U&V.
Then there are the surface normals ... to reverse just
reverse either M OR N array order IIRC.

>If not those can
>be changed too! What can't it do? I'm still searching.

http://www.amazon.com/Computational-Geometry-Design-Manufacture-I-D/dp/0853121141
(I have a copy.)

>> >Oh well I guess most people don't have to ever do that- I
>> >guess- I sure do with all the f-uped cad data thats been created by
>> >other systems- like oh.......... CATIA!.
>>
>> � A poor designer is a poor designer & a pretty picture
>> does not a sound CAD model make (except in banquerland).
>>
>> > Oh another FYI about cimascam<g>, for as much "HorsePower" it has, it
>> >will run on a "bare bones" computer. What does that tell ya bout how
>> >the code was written?
>Some other systems, when screen rotating are a dawg! Shade the
>wireframe - dawg. Not in Cimatron smooth dynamic rotation of zooming,
>panning all within a command sequence any time with a special set of
>"immediate functions" to turn on hidden levels & masks ect.

Graphics card & driver issue?

>> � The data structures in surface & wireframe modelers are usually

>> pretty explicit, unlike parametric soilds modelers (with history) where

>like Parametric Technology Corp. PTC? Pro/E ?

That was it's claim to fame; easy to train users on,
simple to use.

>oh sorry its now called
>"wildfire" I'd would have liked to build a fire & through it in there
>in times past.<g>
>
>> things are all related & driven ..

Anvil 4000 & CV had ways to output APT source ...
Anvil pretty fully associative (smart APT) IF you had deleted no entities.

>its a Parent / Child thing.
>
>> � You'll have much smaller part file sizes too.
>> � Kinda low-tech these days <g>.
>
>some times (most of the time) the old tech is still good.

I keep asking what jb's latest & gretest does that we could not
.. still end up with G-code ... he's clueless & a non-user.
--
Cliff

mil...@cin.net

unread,

May 30, 2009, 6:41:56 AM5/30/09

to

On May 29, 5:35 am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 May 2009 08:58:33 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer <jon_banq...@yahoo.com>

> wrote:
>
> >Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is pure crap and no one with clue one uses it
> >to model with.
>
> IOW You don't have a clue & it works just fine for
> actual users.
>
> HTH
> --
> Cliff

May 2009 The Knowledge-Sharing Newsletter

in this issue

* 10 Big Companies That Haven't Quit on the US
* Seven Ways to Strengthen Your Business
* MOLD MAKING FOCUS
Conventional Tools, Unconventional Processes
* DIE MAKING FOCUS
'Greenergy' - the Next Big Thing

FEATURE STORY
Doing More with Less:
Six Keys To Surviving The Economic Downturn Do More

As seen in Tooling Product News

View a webinar recording
on the topic.

TRADE SHOW

Visit us at the MoldMaking Expo!

June 22-26, 2009
McCormick Place
Chicago, IL
Booth W103009

INDUSTRY QUICK LINK

The "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" has officially extended
the Section 179 Deduction increases through December 31, 2009.

Take advantage of Section 179 deductions to reduce your tax burden by
making smart decisions regarding software and equipment purchase in
2009.

QUICK LINK

View Cimatron's GibbsCAM product line for production

Join our mailing list!

Greetings!

Thanks to the mainstream media, we are continually bombarded with doom
and gloom news - especially when it comes to the topic of the state of
the economy and the manufacturing industry in particular. So, it helps
to be reminded of the positive - like the many strong companies that
are proud to call America home, including these 10 industrial icons.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" may have become a
cliché, but that's just what manufacturers need to do in this economic
downturn. Gut reaction for many businesses is to sit and wait, cut
back, and often let go of staff while running with the bare
necessities. Contrary to the intuition, industry experts have
discovered that these times are better than ever to position yourself
for growth and strengthen your business.

At the same time, tool makers should always strive to optimize their
processes and do more with less in order to survive the downturn and
be better prepared for the future. These moldmakers have taken
creative steps using conventional tools with new, unconventional
processes to cut delivery times.

From a strategic point of view, it is important to diversify your
customer base and look for new markets to service. The renewables
industry is a promising and growing market for die makers to consider.
See why.

Enjoy the issue,

Lisa Sterling
Director of Marketing
Cimatron Technologies, Inc.

10 Big Companies That Haven't Quit on the US
US

Plenty of industrial titans continue to thrive.
See who they are.

Seven Ways to Strengthen Your Business
Seven

Business owners who use their time to improve their business and seize
every possible opportunity are the ones who will make it through the
economic downturn.
Tips for steering your business through the economic downturn.

MOLD MAKING FOCUS
Conventional Tools, Unconventional Processes
clock

Many moldmakers are coming up with ways to provide what the customer
wants in a fraction of the time.
How they do it.

DIE MAKING FOCUS
'Greenergy' - the Next Big Thing
go greenb

Renewable energy generation renews market, savings opportunities.
What it means for you.

email: lste...@cimatrontech.com
phone: (248) 596-9700
web: http://www.cimatrontech.com

mil...@cin.net

unread,

May 30, 2009, 6:52:27 AM5/30/09

to

On May 24, 10:58 am, jon_banquer <jon_banq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 12:17 am, mil...@cin.net wrote:
>
> > All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
> > Cimatron.
>
> They do a lot of other things well... like leave Cimatron and start
> other
> CADCAM companies, make innovations in wireless, start companies
> that would never buy cheap Chinese Kurt vise knock offs, etc.
>
> >To bad they can't get along with their neighbors.
>
> Too bad most of Israel’s neighbors can't figure out that Israel has
> the right to exist. As a result they get their ass handed to them on a
> constant basis.
>
> Speaking of not being able to figure out the basics:
>
> Cimatron had to buy Gibbscam (which needs a total rewrites from the
> ground up) because after all these years Cimatron still can't figure
> out how to market and still hasn't developed a production CADCAM
> system like those who have left Cimatron have.

Wait a minute, Cimatron is a fully integrated CAD & CAM system. It has
been for many years.
Who or what company/software has offspring from Cimatron?

>
> Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is pure crap and no one with clue one uses it
> to model with. Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is the worst laid out solid /
> surface modeler I've ever used. It's the Chinese Kurt knock off vise
> of the CADCAM solid / surface modeler market.
>
> Jon Banquer
> San Diego, CA

Cliff

unread,

May 30, 2009, 9:59:40 AM5/30/09

to

On Sat, 30 May 2009 03:52:27 -0700 (PDT), mil...@cin.net wrote:

>On May 24, 10:58�am, jon_banquer <jon_banq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On May 24, 12:17 am, mil...@cin.net wrote:
>>
>> > All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
>> > Cimatron.
>>
>> They do a lot of other things well... like leave Cimatron and start
>> other
>> CADCAM companies, make innovations in wireless, start companies
>> that would never buy cheap Chinese Kurt vise knock offs, etc.
>>
>> >To bad they can't get along with their neighbors.
>>
>> Too bad most of Israel�s neighbors can't figure out that Israel has
>> the right to exist. As a result they get their ass handed to them on a
>> constant basis.
>>
>> Speaking of not being able to figure out the basics:
>>
>> Cimatron had to buy Gibbscam (which needs a total rewrites from the
>> ground up) because after all these years Cimatron still can't figure
>> out how to market and still hasn't developed a production CADCAM
>> system like those who have left Cimatron have.
>
>Wait a minute, Cimatron is a fully integrated CAD & CAM system. It has
>been for many years.
>Who or what company/software has offspring from Cimatron?

"Cimatron ... still hasn't developed a production CADCAM system"
but "those who have left Cimatron have." per jb. AKA "clueless".

And just yesterday he was touting it as the latest & greatest !

>>
>> Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is pure crap and no one with clue one uses it
>> to model with. Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is the worst laid out solid /
>> surface modeler I've ever used. It's the Chinese Kurt knock off vise
>> of the CADCAM solid / surface modeler market.
>>
>> Jon Banquer
>> San Diego, CA
>
>
> \|||/
> (o o)
>______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
> ~ Gil ~
> the HOLDZEM�� king

--
Cliff

cncmillgil

unread,

Jun 13, 2009, 9:07:13 AM6/13/09

to

Anybody going to NPE?

FYI

Cimatron Tooling Tips Webinar!
Greetings!

Join us on Wednesday, June 24th, for our monthly Tooling Tips webinar

designed to help you get the ultimate performance out of your Cimatron
software. Start saving time and increasing productivity by attending
our monthly webinar and get the best out of your software.

Please note that if you have already registered for this event, you do
not need to re-register.

June Tooling Tips Webinar
Event Details computer hardware
Date: Wednesday, June 24th

Time: 2:00pm - 3:00pm EDT

Topic: Cimatron Drafting Environment

Register to Attend

Contact Information
email: in...@cimatrontech.com
phone: (877) 596-9700
web: http://www.cimatrontech.com

Join our mailing list!

\|||/

(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~
the HOLDZEM©® king

DEMO
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/Holdzem1.exe

cncmillgil

unread,

Jun 16, 2009, 7:38:19 PM6/16/09

to

On May 24, 10:58 am, jon_banquer <jon_banq...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On May 24, 12:17 am, mil...@cin.net wrote:
>
> > All I can tell ya is some DAMN SMART Jew's wrote the code for
> > Cimatron.
>
> They do a lot of other things well... like leave Cimatron and start
> other
> CADCAM companies, make innovations in wireless, start companies
> that would never buy cheap Chinese Kurt vise knock offs, etc.
>
> >To bad they can't get along with their neighbors.
>
> Too bad most of Israel’s neighbors can't figure out that Israel has
> the right to exist. As a result they get their ass handed to them on a
> constant basis.
>
> Speaking of not being able to figure out the basics:
>
> Cimatron had to buy Gibbscam (which needs a total rewrites from the
> ground up)

Hmm I'll find out about this (your) assumtions at NPE
end ouf June.

>>because after all these years Cimatron still can't figure
> out how to market and still hasn't developed a production CADCAM

I believe they have done just fine specifically targeting Moldmaking
+Tool&Die Industries WORLD wide.
Look in Italy, Spain, S. Africa, Brazil, Austria, Germany, ect - now
compare. The market in US is saturated with
MC's,Gscam's,Scam's,Delscams ect.

> system like those who have left Cimatron have.

Due to many circumstances- like the current economic conditions,
people / management............... come & go - that's a constant in
life.
Sometimes for better opportunities & sometimes not so better.

>
> Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is pure crap and no one with clue one uses it
> to model with. Gibbscam SolidSurfacer is the worst laid out solid /
> surface modeler I've ever used. It's the Chinese Kurt knock off vise
> of the CADCAM solid / surface modeler market.

I too was not very impressed with what Gibscam can do.
But it is kind of a "give-away" / "promo" software on some machines.
Easy to use for very basic 3D ect, for the "novice" or entry level.
Just don't try to do "too much" 3D work. Then is fine?? Hey lots-o-
people use it, so it does have its place, just not in my arsenal of
weapons<g>

>
> Jon Banquer
> San Diego, CA

Greetings!

Please join Cimatron at this year's NPE/MoldMaking Expo 2009 on June
22-26 in Chicago, Illinois.

Visit us at booth #W103009 and see hands-on demonstrations of the NEW
CimatronE Version 9, including:

* Greater mold design automation
* A new application for defining electrode measuring points and
probe path
* New machining strategies for High Speed Machining (HSM) and 5-
Axis milling
* New capabilities for handling Product Manufacturing Information
(PMI)
throughout the design and manufacturing process
* A new application for transfer die design
* A new die quote generator

The MoldMaking Expo is the only event devoted exclusively to
showcasing technologies and strategies used in moldmaking and rapid
manufacturing.

Attendance is free (compliments of Cimatron) and additional details
can be found below.

We look forward to seeing you there!

Sincerely,

Lisa Sterling
Director of Marketing
Cimatron Technologies, Inc.

Event Details

Tradeshow Name: NPE/MoldMaking Expo

Date: June 22 - 26, 2009
Booth: #W103009
Location: McCormick Place, Chicago, IL

Website: http://www.moldmakingexpo.com

Register Now!
*Limited tickets are available, so register now!

======================================================

______
/_____/\ Best Regards,
/____ \\ \ Gil Pawl
/_____\ \\ / HOLDZEM©®
/_____/ \/ / /
/_____/ / \//\ West Chicago, IL
\_____\//\ / / USA
\_____/ / /\ /

\_____/ \\ \
\_____\ \\
\_____\/

cncmillgil

unread,

Jun 22, 2009, 5:58:24 PM6/22/09

to

cncmillgil

unread,

Jun 24, 2009, 7:09:23 AM6/24/09

to

> email: i...@cimatrontech.com

> phone: (877) 596-9700
> web:http://www.cimatrontech.com
>
> Join our mailing list!
>
> \|||/
> (o o)
> ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
> ~ Gil ~
> the HOLDZEM©® king

Having trouble displaying this e-mail? Go to www.toolingtimes.com

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June 2009 The Knowledge-Sharing Newsletter

in this issue

* Survey: China No Longer Worth It?
* Meeting the Minimally Invasive Challenge
* MOLD MAKING FOCUS
Cost of Ownership: A Lifetime of Molding Savings
* DIE MAKING FOCUS
Survival Tips

FEATURE STORY
Software Issues and Considerations When Designing and Manufacturing
Microscale Components

Read about options for manufacturing microscale components in the
recent issue of Micro Manufacturing Magazine

TRADE SHOW

Visit us at the MoldMaking Expo!

June 22-26, 2009
McCormick Place
Chicago, IL
Booth W103009

INDUSTRY QUICK LINK

Discover the advantages of doing business in Michigan.

QUICK LINK

View Cimatron's GibbsCAM product line for production

Join our mailing list!

Greetings!

The movement to bring manufacturing back to North America is gaining
momentum, with more and more companies discontinuing their outsourcing
to China. New (and old) factors are being (re) considered, giving rise
to the question - Is China No Longer Worth It?

In order to avoid outsourcing and building of "cheap" molds, mold
makers are rethinking their long-term tooling processes and making
smarter investments in their tools and software to find more efficient
ways of decreasing tooling costs. As many have learned the hard way,
there's nothing more expensive than a cheap mold.

One place the demand for high quality tools continues to escalate is
in medical components. As parts become smaller, the machining
obstacles become larger. Be aware of the software issues and
considerations when designing and manufacturing microscale components.

Times are still difficult for die makers, but the strong are
surviving. It's important to remember that your surviving staff may
need a little extra attention. MetalForming Magazine offers some tips
to minimize the negative side effects of workforce reduction.

Enjoy the issue,

Lisa Sterling
Director of Marketing
Cimatron Technologies, Inc.

Survey: China No Longer Worth It?

New research cites a decrease to come in outsourcing to China.
Learn why.

Meeting the Minimally Invasive Challenge

As components become smaller, the machining obstacles multiply for
manufacturers.
What are the obstacles?

MOLD MAKING FOCUS
Cost of Ownership: A Lifetime of Molding Savings

There's nothing more expensive than a cheap mold.
Ways to decrease tooling costs for the lifetime of a mold.

DIE MAKING FOCUS
Survival Tips

Workforce reduction and the increased workload dumped on the survivors
often leads to reduced productivity, decreased cooperation and
teamwork, poor customer service and infighting.
How to prevent them from happening.

email: lste...@cimatrontech.com
phone: (248) 596-9700
web: http://www.cimatrontech.com

\|||/

Cliff

to

"cncmillgil" <mil...@cin.net> wrote in message
news:bfb4252e-07fd-4163...@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

Your Lean Tool Set

Brought to you by

Cimatron

Forward to a Colleague

********
I studied kazan before I got into this trade, and I was pleased to find out
thats how all the good moldmakers worked...so I embraced it.
Problem is...shops hate it. Machinists hate it.
It costs jobs.
First decade in the trade I didn't care, I embraced it, pissed off a lot of
people, but I made a ton of money.
But after a while you get hammered too many damn times over it. You lean
stuff out, and things go a lot faster, pissing off everyone involved.
At first EVERYONE loves it, then they HATE it.

But it does cost jobs unless it's offsetted by growth. Thats why it pisses
so many people off.

Say you take over a dept. You lean things up. All of a sudden it doesn't
take 10 people, it friggen takes 4. Now youv'e introduced stress into the
system from the owner to the floor sweeper.

My stupid point is...Lean sux! We know how to run lean, what we need is a
way of making it self sufficient without relying on growth so much. Maybe
the dept your running is leaned up, but the rest of the shop isn't, so
growth is out of the question...now what do you do with all your new
efficiency?
Move to another dept? Now your seen as a virus.

FUCK LEAN. Stupid ass shop owners want to bearly skate by... I say let em.
Someone has to support 30% of the uneeded workforce.
Some say...well that's why wages are stagnent..naw, they are stagnent
because we are in the bottom curve of the worker/owner cycle. Nothing will
make the wages rise till the cycle goes its course. Been going on since the
1800's, every 20 years. All that will happen with becoming lean is people
will be laid off. If cash is generated it will be wasted on extra managers,
company trucks, etc...

Stay fat...your boss will love you for it, and your coworkers will sit next
to you at lunch.

cncmillgil

unread,

Jul 9, 2009, 6:42:38 AM7/9/09

to

> Read: A Tsunami Too Big Even for Toyota?http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102634006461&s=86&e=001v3uEMgS2gjYYlBE81xFP...

>
> Read what Lean guru Jim Womack says about why even Toyota cannot
> escape the current financial situation - and more importantly - how
> they will get out of it and what we can all learn from it.
>

> Download: The Case Study of EIMO Americashttp://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102634006461&s=86&e=001v3uEMgS2gjYYlBE81xFP...

>
> EIMO provides a shining example of a toolmaker that has fully embraced
> lean manufacturing and has the results to show for it: shorter
> delivery times, lower cost of production, and customers that keep
> coming back.
>
> View a recorded online seminar: Doing More with Less in a Sluggish

> Economyhttp://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102634006461&s=86&e=001v3uEMgS2gjYYlBE81xFP...

>
> - How to eliminate wasted time and effort in your shop
> - How to get more productivity out of your existing resources
> - How you can deliver every job faster (and at lower cost)
>
> Access these three valuable resources all in one place -

> Get your Lean Tool Set now herehttp://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102634006461&s=86&e=001v3uEMgS2gjaRVWwmrr8i...

>
> Brought to you by
>
> Cimatron
>
> Forward to a Colleague
>
> ********
> I studied kazan before I got into this trade, and I was pleased to find out
> thats how all the good moldmakers worked...so I embraced it.

Yer right. problem is there are not many *good* moldmakers left.

> Problem is...shops hate it. Machinists hate it.

right, its the old adage, do as little as possible for the most pay.
If i work this hard every day, the boss will expect it all the time?

> It costs jobs.

> First decade in the trade I didn't care, I embraced it, pissed off a lot of
> people, but I made a ton of money.

The good contract moldmakers here in Chi-town in the early 90's were
pullin down 100k/yr at that time! Only working 9-10months! Making more
than the shop owners! That did not last.

> But after a while you get hammered too many damn times over it. You lean
> stuff out, and things go a lot faster, pissing off everyone involved.
> At first EVERYONE loves it, then they HATE it.

right your making them look bad. they might loose their job(afraid for
their job)

>
> But it does cost jobs unless it's offsetted by growth. Thats why it pisses
> so many people off.
>
> Say you take over a dept. You lean things up. All of a sudden it doesn't
> take 10 people, it friggen takes 4. Now youv'e introduced stress into the
> system from the owner to the floor sweeper.

right, people step back & kinda watch you fall on your face, instead
if helping. Maybe not viscucously but subtle. Hmm we just wont tell
everything we know, just a little. Lets see what happens. I have to
look *good* in the boses eyes ya know. So when someone trys to improve
some inefficiency, you get the "oh no, we don't do it like that here.
you have to do it this way" why? will the world stop turning if i do
it my way? WTF?

>
> My stupid point is...Lean sux! We know how to run lean, what we need is a
> way of making it self sufficient without relying on growth so much. Maybe
> the dept your running is leaned up, but the rest of the shop isn't, so
> growth is out of the question...now what do you do with all your new
> efficiency?
> Move to another dept? Now your seen as a virus.

My experience with Kazan( a few hour seminar back in late 90's) is
continued improvement - do what needs to be done.
The old Yugoslavian toolmaker that trained me back in the 70's said:
If its plunge the toilet or drive the forklift or grind .0001 off ,
just do it! Don't complain. Ya that pisses people off, because your
catching'em fuck'in off. Damn janitor wont fix the pisser, Shipping &
rec. guy is B/Sing with the girls in the office, sweeper kid is
texting his girlfriend while airhose sweeping, it goes on & on.

>
> FUCK LEAN. Stupid ass shop owners want to bearly skate by... I say let em.
> Someone has to support 30% of the uneeded workforce.

Ya alot of people on welfare are depending on ME everyday to go to
work.
Dont want to let my people down.

> Some say...well that's why wages are stagnent..naw, they are stagnent
> because we are in the bottom curve of the worker/owner cycle. Nothing will
> make the wages rise till the cycle goes its course. Been going on since the
> 1800's, every 20 years. All that will happen with becoming lean is people
> will be laid off. If cash is generated it will be wasted on extra managers,
> company trucks, etc...

Personal adjenda's, big christmas bonus generated by fucking some
little shop owner.

>
> Stay fat...your boss will love you for it, and your coworkers will sit next
> to you at lunch.

Its all bullshit. Do what you gotta do. Keep your mouth shut. Go with
the flow.
Do that little extra on every job. like file a corner or shine it up,
make sure the next guy/customer does not cut his hand. If its broke &
nobody is fixing it, take ownership & do it. Say a prayer once in
while & thank your lucky stars you don't live in the middle East/Asia
ect.
Oh listen to Joel Osteen every so often - it cant hurt.

5:50 am Hi Ho Hi Ho its off to work I go!

here's one that will stick in your head today:
http://www.animatronics.org/strangers/strangers.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

__o __o __o __o
_`\<,_ _`\<,_ _`\<,_ _`\<,_ Best Regards,
(*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) Gil
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

brew...@aol.com

unread,

Jul 9, 2009, 8:59:39 AM7/9/09

to

"vinny" <vi...@vp3d.net> wrote:

>FUCK LEAN.

5S'd your post.

cncmillgil

unread,

Jul 9, 2009, 7:54:39 PM7/9/09

to

"What is 5S? The 5S philosophy focuses on effective workplace
organization and standardized work procedures. 5S simplifies your work
environment, reduces waste and non-value activity while improving
quality, efficiency and safety."

No shit sherlock. What a novel idea. Why did'nt I think of that?<g>

Anyone care for some HOLDZEM'S?

Gotta GQ shoot in about an hour, maybe they'ed like some. ;-)

Good, better, best, never let it rest,until good is better, and
better is best!!

--
___ ___
/ /\ / /\
/ /__\ / /\/\
/__/ / ------------------------------------ /__/\/\/
\ \ / ------------------------------- \ \/\/
\__\/ \__\/

Gil©

vinny

unread,

Jul 10, 2009, 5:04:29 AM7/10/09

to

<brew...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7aqb55l6qu45jlvrl...@4ax.com...

> "vinny" <vi...@vp3d.net> wrote:
>
>>FUCK LEAN.
>
> 5S'd your post.

:)

cncmillgil

unread,

Jul 16, 2009, 5:54:39 AM7/16/09

to

On Jul 10, 4:04 am, "vinny" <vi...@vp3d.net> wrote:
> <brewe...@aol.com> wrote in message

Cimatron Tooling Tips!
Greetings!

Welcome to Cimatron Tooling Tips! This is a monthly email with
information that will help you optimize your Cimatron products.

Tooling Tips Webinar
training
Join us on Wednesday, July 22nd, at 2:00PM EDT for the next Tooling
Tips Webinar and get the most out of your Cimatron software.

Topic: Fikus Wire EDM

REGISTER NOW

July Tips & Tricks
by the Cimatron Support Staff Tips.... light
Try these tips to save time and increase productivity.

Tip #1
While we all like a crisp display of the part we are working on, there
are tradeoffs between the line quality, the speed of the system, and
the size of the file we are working with.

The function View/Settings/Display Quality provides display control. A
higher setting will provide for a better look, at the cost of slower
performance and a bit larger file size. The file size grows because
the Display Mesh is actually kept inside the part data. To keep the
file size down, you may choose to Exclude Display from the file, but
the trade off here is that opening and closing files will get much
slower. Once you have selected the display settings you are
comfortable with, click the Disk Icon to save these settings for all
new files you create.

Tip #2
Many Cimatron users consider having a cutting object defined for
catalog parts to be their handiest feature. Indeed, getting the holes
or pocket at the same time you place the component is very efficient.

As a matter of fact, you can define a cutting object for any part, not
just a catalog part. To do that, create a new and separate solid in
the file, then tag it as the cutting object using the Catalog - Attach
Properties to Entity function. Be sure to switch the filter from Face
Selection to Object Selection, because only by selecting an object
will the system show the option for assigning the cutting object
status. Once done, anytime this part is used in an assembly, the
necessary cuts will be automatically performed.

Tip #3
Cimatron Preferences allow you to control the coordinate systems
display. Because they are pixel sized, zooming in or out has no effect
on the actual height of the coordinates you see on the screen.
However, you can use the General Preference for UCS to change the size
from small to very large. Displaying the UCS names on the screen is
also optional. You can remove the names using the Modeling
Preferences.

Tip #4
You can find an extensive knowledgebase of all Cimatron tech support
calls at www.supportcti.com. Any Cimatron user can use it to check on
past support issues or search for a particular solution.

New to the support site are links to the recordings of our monthly
interactive Tooling Tips webinars, covering topics ranging from design
to NC to catalogs. If you missed a webinar or just want to go back and
review a specific session, you can now access these recordings at your
convenience.

Recorded Tooling Tips Webinars
computer hardware
To view previously recorded Tooling Tips webinars, using your user
name and password, log into the support section of the Cimatron
website. The available videos are listed under Tooling Tips Videos
found on the lower left hand side.

Do You Have a Tip to Share?
share
Your tip will be reviewed by the Cimatron technical team; if
published, you will earn the recognition of your fellow toolmakers.
Submit your tooling tip here.

Contact Information
email: in...@cimatrontech.com

cncmillgil

unread,

Jul 21, 2009, 5:16:34 AM7/21/09

to

> calls atwww.supportcti.com. Any Cimatron user can use it to check on

> past support issues or search for a particular solution.
>
> New to the support site are links to the recordings of our monthly
> interactive Tooling Tips webinars, covering topics ranging from design
> to NC to catalogs. If you missed a webinar or just want to go back and
> review a specific session, you can now access these recordings at your
> convenience.
>
> Recorded Tooling Tips Webinars
> computer hardware
> To view previously recorded Tooling Tips webinars, using your user
> name and password, log into the support section of the Cimatron
> website. The available videos are listed under Tooling Tips Videos
> found on the lower left hand side.
>
> Do You Have a Tip to Share?
> share
> Your tip will be reviewed by the Cimatron technical team; if
> published, you will earn the recognition of your fellow toolmakers.
> Submit your tooling tip here.
>
> Contact Information

> email: i...@cimatrontech.com

> phone: (877) 596-9700
> web:http://www.cimatrontech.com
>
> Join our mailing list!

ATT: JB

Cimatron Tooling Tips Webinar!
Greetings!

Join us on Wednesday, July 22nd, for our monthly Tooling Tips webinar

designed to help you get the ultimate performance out of your Cimatron
software. Start saving time and increasing productivity by attending
our monthly webinar and get the best out of your software.

Please note that if you have already registered for this event, you do
not need to re-register.

July Tooling Tips Webinar
Event Details computer hardware
Date: Wednesday, July 22nd

Time: 2:00pm - 3:00pm EDT

Topic: Fikus Wire EDM

Register to Attend

Contact Information
email: in...@cimatrontech.com
phone: (877) 596-9700
web: http://www.cimatrontech.com

Join our mailing list!

--

~g~

cncmillgil

unread,

Jul 23, 2009, 7:27:22 PM7/23/09

to

On Jul 16, 4:54 am, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

> calls atwww.supportcti.com. Any Cimatron user can use it to check on

> past support issues or search for a particular solution.
>
> New to the support site are links to the recordings of our monthly
> interactive Tooling Tips webinars, covering topics ranging from design
> to NC to catalogs. If you missed a webinar or just want to go back and
> review a specific session, you can now access these recordings at your
> convenience.
>
> Recorded Tooling Tips Webinars
> computer hardware
> To view previously recorded Tooling Tips webinars, using your user
> name and password, log into the support section of the Cimatron
> website. The available videos are listed under Tooling Tips Videos
> found on the lower left hand side.
>
> Do You Have a Tip to Share?
> share
> Your tip will be reviewed by the Cimatron technical team; if
> published, you will earn the recognition of your fellow toolmakers.
> Submit your tooling tip here.
>
> Contact Information

> email: i...@cimatrontech.com

> phone: (877) 596-9700
> web:http://www.cimatrontech.com
>
> Join our mailing list!

Having trouble displaying this e-mail? Go to www.toolingtimes.com

July 2009 The Knowledge-Sharing Newsletter

in this issue

* Does Offshoring Still Make Sense?
* Integrating Lean and Green
* MOLD MAKING FOCUS
Moldmakers Help Lift the Rising Tide
* DIE MAKING FOCUS
Designing Speed-Friendly Dies

LEAN TOOL SET

If you are looking to do more with less, now is the time to revisit
Lean and make sure you practice it in your business.

Access three valuable resources in one place -

Get your Lean Tool Set

INDUSTRY QUICK LINK

Discover the advantages of doing business in Michigan.

QUICK LINK

View Cimatron's GibbsCAM product line for production

Join our mailing list!

Greetings!

Earlier this month, while you were busy at work or taking some time
off for a summer vacation, the leaders of the world's eight largest
economies gathered in Italy for the G8 meeting.

One issue brought to light in the meeting is the importance of
maintaining the flow of global trade in the face of a struggling world
economy. At the same time, business sense and the forces of the free
market are causing many companies to rethink their offshoring
strategy.

Global warming was another issue that commanded the attention of the
G8 leaders. Many manufacturers are now realizing that "green" and
"lean" can actually be synergetic, enhancing business performance
while helping the environment at the same time.

Closer to home, sharing knowledge is one of the ways in which we can
work together for the betterment of our tooling and manufacturing
sectors. The American Mold Builders Association plays an important
role in promoting this collaboration effort and providing members with
a forum to share best practices. And you never know when a word of
advice shared by a fellow toolmaker might help you build a better
tool.

Speaking of knowledge sharing, many Cimatron customers take advantage
of the monthly Tooling Tips webinars and newsletters offered by the
Cimatron support staff. Contact Cimatron support if you are not sure
how to access these resources.

Enjoy the reading and the rest of your summer!

Does Offshoring Still Make Sense?

Many manufacturing executives now recognize that quality problems,
longer supply chains, lack of visibility, piracy, and intellectual
capital theft are also part of the offshoring equation.
See what it means for the bottom line

Integrating Lean and Green

Increasingly, companies are beginning to look at the business case for
sustainability and the pursuit of the win-win scenario of enhanced
environmental and business performance.
Find out how it can work for you

MOLD MAKING FOCUS
Moldmakers Help Lift the Rising Tide

Four members of the American Mold Builders Association (AMBA) shared
their best practices at this year's annual convention.
Read and learn from your peers

DIE MAKING FOCUS
Designing Speed-Friendly Dies

The desire to operate a die at maximum speed must always be balanced
with the need to minimize tool breakage.

See how to achieve both

email: ne...@cimatrontech.com

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 11, 2009, 9:23:53 PM8/11/09

to

> email: n...@cimatrontech.com

> phone: (248) 596-9700
> web:http://www.cimatrontech.com

Cimatron Tooling Tips Webinar!
Greetings!

Join us on Wednesday, August 19th, for our monthly Tooling Tips
webinar.

Designed to help you get the ultimate performance out of your Cimatron
software, this will be the first in a series of webinars introducing
CimatronE version 9.0.

Please note that if you have already registered for this event, you do
not need to re-register.

August Tooling Tips Webinar
Event Details computer hardware
Date: Wednesday, August 19th

Time: 2:00pm - 3:00pm EDT

Topic: Cimatron version 9 NC, part 1

Register to Attend

Contact Information
email: in...@cimatrontech.com

Joe788

unread,

Aug 11, 2009, 10:11:54 PM8/11/09

to

Latest financial results for Cimatron show they continuing to lose
money and revenues continue to decline.

http://www.streetinsider.com/Press+Releases/Cimatron+Reports+Financial+Results+for+the+Second+Quarter+and+First+Six+Months+of+2009/4866403.html

"Revenues for the second quarter of 2009 were $8.1 million, compared
to $10.7 million recorded in the second quarter of 2008. For the first
six months of 2009, revenues were $16.0 million, compared to $20.7
million in the same period of 2008."

"Operating loss in the second quarter of 2009 was $(317) thousand,
compared to an operating profit of $73 thousand in the second quarter
of 2008. In the first six months of 2009, Cimatron recorded an
operating loss of $(829) thousand, compared to an operating loss of
$(145) thousand in the first six months of 2008.

Net Loss for the second quarter of 2009 was $(83) thousand, or $(0.01)
per diluted share, compared to a net profit of $205 thousand, or $0.02
per diluted share recorded in the same quarter of 2008. In the first
six months of 2009 net loss was $(646) thousand, or $(0.07) per
diluted share, compared to a net loss of $(93) thousand, or $(0.01)
per diluted share, in the first six months of 2008."

Cimatron has already gone bankrupt once. I see it happening again.

Best thing Cimatron could do is forcibly retire Bill Gibbs and move
Gibbscam into the Cimatron user interface.

Joe788

unread,

Aug 11, 2009, 10:31:10 PM8/11/09

to

On Aug 11, 7:11 pm, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Latest financial results for Cimatron show they continuing to lose
> money and revenues continue to decline.
>

> http://www.streetinsider.com/Press+Releases/Cimatron+Reports+Financia...

>
> "Revenues for the second quarter of 2009 were $8.1 million, compared
> to $10.7 million recorded in the second quarter of 2008. For the first
> six months of 2009, revenues were $16.0 million, compared to $20.7
> million in the same period of 2008."
>
> "Operating loss in the second quarter of 2009 was $(317) thousand,
> compared to an operating profit of $73 thousand in the second quarter
> of 2008. In the first six months of 2009, Cimatron recorded an
> operating loss of $(829) thousand, compared to an operating loss of
> $(145) thousand in the first six months of 2008.
>
> Net Loss for the second quarter of 2009 was $(83) thousand, or $(0.01)
> per diluted share, compared to a net profit of $205 thousand, or $0.02
> per diluted share recorded in the same quarter of 2008. In the first
> six months of 2009 net loss was $(646) thousand, or $(0.07) per
> diluted share, compared to a net loss of $(93) thousand, or $(0.01)
> per diluted share, in the first six months of 2008."
>
> Cimatron has already gone bankrupt once. I see it happening again.
>
> Best thing Cimatron could do is forcibly retire Bill Gibbs and move
> Gibbscam into the Cimatron user interface.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

What's that you say Jon, Cimatron's profit dipped 20% in the midst of
a global economic downturn? Must be the end of the world for
them........oh wait....

How about this, you clueless fuck:

"(RTTNews) - Wednesday after the bell, wireless kingpin Qualcomm Inc.
(QCOM | Quote | Chart | News | PowerRating) announced that its first
quarter net earnings declined 56% from last year and 61% sequentially,
hurt by weakening demand for its wireless chips and additional
impairments of its marketable securities portfolio, reflecting the
distress in global financial markets. Citing the difficult business
environment, the company also slashed its revenue guidance for fiscal
2009."

Jon proving once again, his complete lack of knowledge on ANY subject.

Joe788

unread,

Aug 11, 2009, 10:46:44 PM8/11/09

to

Wait a minute. I just realized I'm a complete fucking moron. The
company that Jon Banquer works for has no debit and has 11 billion in
cash. I just proved that I have no knowledge on stocks. Hopefully most
people won't catch on that I'm a complete idiot when it comes to
business and I'm in debt up to my eyeballs.

Joe788

unread,

Aug 11, 2009, 11:38:51 PM8/11/09

to

Right Jon, and how much "debit" [sic] does Cimatron have?

Your employer's earnings fell 56%. That is absolutely dogshit
performance, and you're on here criticizing Cimatron for letting their
profits slip 20%? What planet do you live on? It's also ironic that at
the same time, your employer's stock is down almost exactly 20% since
August.

Just another example of Jon Banquer rampantly running his mouth with
absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 7:53:38 AM8/12/09

to

On Aug 11, 9:11 pm, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Latest financial results for Cimatron show they continuing to lose
> money and revenues continue to decline.
>

> http://www.streetinsider.com/Press+Releases/Cimatron+Reports+Financia...

>
> "Revenues for the second quarter of 2009 were $8.1 million, compared
> to $10.7 million recorded in the second quarter of 2008. For the first
> six months of 2009, revenues were $16.0 million, compared to $20.7
> million in the same period of 2008."
>
> "Operating loss in the second quarter of 2009 was $(317) thousand,
> compared to an operating profit of $73 thousand in the second quarter
> of 2008. In the first six months of 2009, Cimatron recorded an
> operating loss of $(829) thousand, compared to an operating loss of
> $(145) thousand in the first six months of 2008.
>
> Net Loss for the second quarter of 2009 was $(83) thousand, or $(0.01)
> per diluted share, compared to a net profit of $205 thousand, or $0.02
> per diluted share recorded in the same quarter of 2008. In the first
> six months of 2009 net loss was $(646) thousand, or $(0.07) per
> diluted share, compared to a net loss of $(93) thousand, or $(0.01)
> per diluted share, in the first six months of 2008."
>
> Cimatron has already gone bankrupt once. I see it happening again.
>
> Best thing Cimatron could do is forcibly retire Bill Gibbs and move
> Gibbscam into the Cimatron user interface.

Cimatron this & Cimatron that , There gonna go bankrupt, get rib of
Gibbs, make Gibbscam plugin to Cimatron........ Geezzzzzze
wah wah wah wah, Ok old ladies.

Q: is there ever any positive thoughts.... ever? on anything?
Just a thought.
I'm thinking Cimatron can do this easy & Cimatron can do that better,
& others saying:
Mastercam can do this better, But Smartcam can to that better. Nx is
sweet.
But dont use this function(they all have'm) do it this way.

Positive...... proactive..........
Kinda get it? maybe a little?
AMC would be a much better place w/o the flames & personal attacks?

--

___ ___
/ \ / /\

/ /__\ / /\/\
/__/ / ------------------------------------ /__/\/\/

\ \ / ------------------------------------ \ \/\/
\ _\/ \__\/

Gil©
==American Toolmaker==
using the "old world" ways
with today's technology building
Tomorrows Dreams

I think it would be fair to compare ALL other major CAD/CAM companies
current financial s, probably not gonna be much better.

Joe788

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 9:30:11 AM8/12/09

to

On Aug 12, 4:53 am, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

> Cimatron this & Cimatron that , There gonna go bankrupt,

Since Cimatron already has gone bankrupt that would be go bankrupt yet
again.

> Q: is there ever any positive thoughts.... ever? on anything?

Yeah, I suggested you shove a Holeum up your ass.

> AMC would be a much better place w/o the flames & personal attacks?

Not with your constant engagement of the person who destroyed
alt.machines.cnc and created numerous followers who lie like he
lies... Cliffy Huprich. You really are stupid beyond belief.

Joe788

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 10:11:05 AM8/12/09

to

Jon, how come you don't want to reply to this? Did you really NOT know
how bad Qualcomm is doing before you posted all of that other garbage,
assuming everybody else was as uninformed as you?

Your employer's earnings fell 56%. That is absolutely dogshit
performance, and you're on here criticizing Cimatron for letting their
profits slip 20%? What planet do you live on? It's also ironic that at
the same time, your employer's stock is down almost exactly 20% since

August 08.

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 7:34:21 PM8/12/09

to

Ya Whatever dude. (nothing you hear- 50%of what you see)
Have fun with this:
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/AlyanLynch_My USA - whatever.MP3

& now here's something we hope You'll really like:

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 9:39:22 PM8/12/09

to

you 2 are like a bad infection- won't go away- continual puss- hurts
like hell to look/touch-

Back on topic now..........

August Tips & Tricks

by the Cimatron Support Staff Tips.... light
Try these tips to save time and increase productivity.

Tip #1

Many Cimatron users consider having a cutting object defined for
catalog parts to be their handiest feature. Indeed, getting the holes
or pocket at the same time you place the component is very efficient.

As a matter of fact, you can define a cutting object for any part, not
just a catalog part. To do that, create a new and separate solid in
the file, then tag it as the cutting object using the Catalog - Attach
Properties to Entity function. Be sure to switch the filter from Face
Selection to Object Selection, because only by selecting an object
will the system show the option for assigning the cutting object
status. Once done, anytime this part is used in an assembly, the
necessary cuts will be automatically performed.

Tip #2
An easy way for finding important data, measurements, and calculations
related to the entity picked is using the fourth option in the
Measurement Tool. When a face is picked, the calculated face area,
perimeter, and curvature ranges are presented. You can also see the
face type, which might be a spline-based free form or an analytic
shape such as a cylinder or sphere.

When an object is picked, additional measurements and calculations are
displayed, including:

* The total surface area
* The surface area seen only down the Z direction
* Overall size by box
* Part volume (if the object is not closed, the system calculates
an assumed volume)
* From the volume and a user entered density value, Part Mass can
be calculated and displayed

In addition, the center of gravity is displayed on the object. The
center can be kept on screen as a real point by checking the option
box found at the lower left corner of the measurement window.

Tip #3
The function Entity Information under the Analyze menu can provide
further details about the selected entity, such as:

* Curves: control points, break points, and slopes
* Faces control and normal points
* Curvatures at any point on a face or along a curve

When an object is selected, the system can highlight any edges that
are not completely closed a solid. You can also select to see the
edges which are not smooth to each other, which is a great help in
creating nice flowing parting surfaces for machining.

Tip #4
If you look at the parameters for a Remachine - Cleanup procedure, you
will see a parameter named Previous Cutter Offset. This parameter is
often confused by users as a reference to the surface offset used when
cutting the preceding procedure, using the previous tool. However,
this is NOT what this parameter refers to.

What the Previous Cutter Offset parameter does is adjust the diameter
of the previous cutter. For instance, if you insert a value of 0.020
here, the system will increase the diameter of the previous tool
definition by 0.020 per side, before using it to calculate the areas
that will be cut with the current tool. A larger tool will create
larger areas to be cut, thus giving you an overlap between the
previous procedure and your Cleanup procedure.

Customer Tip!
"In a Cimatron assembly, the second instance of a part placed into the
assembly gets a #1 added to its name, and further instances get
incrementally larger numbers added. However, the first instance placed
never gets a number at all, which leaves it out of the numbering
sequence. I decided to change this behavior by adding #1 to the names
of all my common catalog parts (you can make this change in the
Details attribute). Now the first part I use already has the #1
included. When placing a second instance, the Cimatron system
automatically recognizes the existing number and correctly increments
the new one to #2, the next one to #3, and so on, all on its own."

- Mike Warner, MW-3D-Design

Recorded Tooling Tips Webinars
computer hardware
To view previously recorded Tooling Tips webinars, using your user
name and password, log into the support section of the Cimatron
website. The available videos are listed under Tooling Tips Videos
found on the lower left hand side.

Do You Have a Tip to Share?
share
Your tip will be reviewed by the Cimatron technical team; if
published, you will earn the recognition of your fellow toolmakers.
Submit your tooling tip here.

Contact Information

email: in...@cimatrontech.com
phone: (877) 596-9700
web: http://www.cimatrontech.com

Join our mailing list!

--

\|||/
(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~

the self proclaimed IT13 ©® king!

Joe788

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 9:47:38 PM8/12/09

to

Latest financial results for Cimatron show they continuing to lose
money and revenues continue to decline.

http://www.cimatron.com/Main/pressreleases.aspx?FolderID=68&docID=9977&lang=en

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 10:12:09 PM8/12/09

to

On Aug 12, 8:47 pm, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Latest financial results for Cimatron show they continuing to lose
> money and revenues continue to decline.
>

> http://www.cimatron.com/Main/pressreleases.aspx?FolderID=68&docID=997...

>
> "Revenues for the second quarter of 2009 were $8.1 million, compared
> to $10.7 million recorded in the second quarter of 2008. For the first
> six months of 2009, revenues were $16.0 million, compared to $20.7
> million in the same period of 2008."
>
> "Operating loss in the second quarter of 2009 was $(317) thousand,
> compared to an operating profit of $73 thousand in the second quarter
> of 2008. In the first six months of 2009, Cimatron recorded an
> operating loss of $(829) thousand, compared to an operating loss of
> $(145) thousand in the first six months of 2008.

OMG!

>
> Net Loss for the second quarter of 2009 was $(83) thousand, or $(0.01)
> per diluted share, compared to a net profit of $205 thousand, or $0.02
> per diluted share recorded in the same quarter of 2008. In the first
> six months of 2009 net loss was $(646) thousand, or $(0.07) per
> diluted share, compared to a net loss of $(93) thousand, or $(0.01)
> per diluted share, in the first six months of 2008."

It the EOtheW as we know it.
>

> Cimatron has already gone bankrupt once. I see it happening again.

Ya so?

>
> Best thing Cimatron could do is forcibly retire Bill Gibbs and move

true grrrrrrr bambozeler Bill Gibbs. He auta be writing a book soon?

> Gibbscam into the Cimatron user interface.

No way! - why fuck up a good 3D software with an piss poor one?
They only "scammed" Gibbs for the "general populus" - the every day-
get'r done machine shops- that are most common, not needing the true
high end 3D POWER of "the dark side". Its a SOLUTION for everyone.
got it yet?
Proley not.............. why should I think so anyway?
Oh well good luck with that!

Joe788

unread,

Aug 12, 2009, 11:06:46 PM8/12/09

to

On Aug 12, 7:12 pm, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

> They only "scammed" Gibbs for the "general populus" - the every day-
> get'r done machine shops- that are most common, not needing the true
> high end 3D POWER of "the dark side". Its a SOLUTION for everyone.
> got it yet?

Nope. Cimatron purchased Gibbscam to try and diversify so they don't
go bankrupt again. It's not going to work because the market is moving
away from stand alone CAM toward fully integrated CADCAM inside
SolidWorks.

Here is the latest:

www.delcamforsolidworks.com

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 7:13:22 AM8/13/09

to

On Aug 12, 10:06 pm, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 7:12 pm, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:
>
> > They only "scammed" Gibbs for the "general populus" - the every day-
> > get'r done machine shops- that are most common, not needing the true
> > high end 3D POWER of "the dark side". Its a SOLUTION for everyone.
> > got it yet?
>
> Nope. Cimatron purchased Gibbscam to try and diversify so they don't
> go bankrupt again.

Well ya, its a business strategy, geeze. CEO's-Boards of directors do
stuff like that too: #1 save themselves & #2 save the corp. Due
to ??? fucked up management within that corp? Hmmm. never heard of
that.
It aint rocket science now is it.

>It's not going to work because the market is moving
> away from stand alone CAM toward fully integrated CADCAM inside
> SolidWorks.

They have only been trying to integrate solid part machining /FBM into
solid modelers for about 10years now, get with the "program"
maybe, just maybe, they'll get it? as long as you have a "pretty"
water tight model, staying within their solid "proprietry" FB
environment We'll see about that. Pro/E - Pro/Man? How many "little
guys" using that shit? Whata joke!
Q: what if you get an AutoCad dwg file with a few "poly-lines" to cut?
(this never happens)
Oh ok Make a block, do some cuts, dick around with the geometry- ect.
Instead of click-I'm done - the spindle will be turning in about 5min?
Hmmmm sounds too easy - it'll never work - auh........

>
> Here is the latest:
>
> www.delcamforsolidworks.com

I'm not a software writer, but I can tell you when you take 2
independant CAD/CAM programs & try to combine them, IT DON'T WORK, for
very long. Lots-o-finger pointing- he said she said & so on.
That is way complete re-writes of software are needed. duh.
& guess what? Thats hard & very expensive to do. Thus causing some
companies to to bankrupt?
It seems that trying to limp along & keep kicking a sleeping dog
(MCx'ers)- turning existing cam software in to un-usable buggy
behemoths- is the way things progress?

>
> > Proley not.............. why should I think so anyway?
> > Oh well good luck with that!
>
> > --
>
> > \|||/
> > (o o)
> > ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
> > ~ Gil ~
> > the self proclaimed IT13 ©® king
>
>

Oh did I mention lately that IT13 is the best damn software on the
planet?
(top o the line in '99)<g>

Joe788

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 8:55:31 AM8/13/09

to

On Aug 13, 4:13 am, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

> They have only been trying to integrate solid part machining /FBM into
> solid modelers for about 10years now, get with the "program"
> maybe, just maybe, they'll get it?

Who the fuck is "they"? No CAM company wants to spend money on CAD
development any longer. Most have very tired, outdated, wireframe CAD
with some crappy solid modeling tossed on top.... SmartCAM, Mastercam,
etc.

> We'll see about that. Pro/E - Pro/Man? How many "little
> guys" using that shit? Whata joke!

All SolidWorks is an easier to use Pro/E that's makes full use of what
Windows has to offer with more modern marketing with what probably is
the worlds best VAR network.

> I'm not a software writer, but I can tell you when you take 2
> independant CAD/CAM programs & try to combine them, IT DON'T WORK, for
> very long.

Wrong. Its now working very well and that's why so many CAM companies
are moving to offer CAM inside of SolidWorks. While I don't like
SolidWorks using a program like Solid Edge with ST when you have to
seriously modify your customers model now makes the situation
tolerable. Even better, is the FACT that SolidCAM doesn't just run
inside of SolidWorks. If Autodesk ever gets their shit together with
Inventor-Fusion it might become a very attractive option and would not
require the use of Solid Edge with ST. That's a big if because
Autodesk is an asshole company.

SolidWorks gives CAM developers some great tools to work with. Imagine
being able to have high quality chaining you can actually see rather
than what Mastercam has now... chains with thin wireframe arrows that
often disappear and are often very hard to see.

> It seems that trying to limp along & keep kicking a sleeping dog
> (MCx'ers)- turning existing cam software in to un-usable buggy
> behemoths- is the way things progress?

Nope. CNC Software has no choice now other than to try and make
Mastercam CAD much, much better. Most other companies have thrown in
the towel and will ride the integrated into SolidWorks approach like
many other CAM vendors are doing. CAM is now going to get much better
at a much faster pace than in the recent past.

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:09:47 PM8/13/09

to

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:38:51 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <joema...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Aug 11, 7:46�pm, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Wait a minute. I just realized I'm a complete fucking moron. The
>> company that Jon Banquer works for has no debit and has 11 billion in
>> cash. I just proved that I have no knowledge on stocks. Hopefully most
>> people won't catch on that I'm a complete idiot when it comes to
>> business and I'm in debt up to my eyeballs.
>
>Right Jon, and how much "debit" [sic] does Cimatron have?
>
>Your employer's earnings fell 56%. That is absolutely dogshit
>performance, and you're on here criticizing Cimatron for letting their
>profits slip 20%? What planet do you live on? It's also ironic that at
>the same time, your employer's stock is down almost exactly 20% since
>August.

Great way to lose $$ with stock options.

> Just another example of Jon Banquer rampantly running his mouth with
>absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:12:45 PM8/13/09

to

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:53:38 -0700 (PDT), cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

>Q: is there ever any positive thoughts.... ever? on anything?

From clueless BANQUER?
LOL .....
One day he sees a new ad or buzzword & it's the MUST HAVE.
(He NEVER gets it.)
A few days later it's old antique trash.

He's still trying to drill holes.
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:18:36 PM8/13/09

to

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:34:21 -0700 (PDT), cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

>& now here's something we hope You'll really like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjGRySVyTDk
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:21:48 PM8/13/09

to

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:33:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <larry...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2009/06/17/qualcomm-goldman-upgrades-win-ce-on-snapdragon/

June 17, 2009
How did that work out?
LOL ...
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:26:38 PM8/13/09

to

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:39:22 -0700 (PDT), cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

>are like a bad infection-

You should see his posts about his sinus infections.
(NGs other than AMC.)
Clearly jb puts his nose where no nose should go ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbuQ5ZLB2ME
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:29:41 PM8/13/09

to

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <larry...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 12, 7:12�pm, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:
>
>> They only "scammed" Gibbs for the "general populus" - the every day-
>> get'r done �machine shops- that are most common, not needing the true
>> high end 3D POWER of "the dark side". Its a SOLUTION for everyone.
>> �got it yet?
>
>Nope. Cimatron purchased Gibbscam to try and diversify so they don't
>go bankrupt again.

You have no clues at all, as usual.
--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:32:02 PM8/13/09

to

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <larry...@yahoo.com> wrote:

(AKA jonnie bunko)

>On Aug 12, 7:12�pm, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:
>
>> They only "scammed" Gibbs for the "general populus" - the every day-
>> get'r done �machine shops- that are most common, not needing the true
>> high end 3D POWER of "the dark side". Its a SOLUTION for everyone.
>> �got it yet?
>
>Nope. Cimatron purchased Gibbscam to try and diversify so they don't
>go bankrupt again. It's not going to work because the market is moving
>away from stand alone CAM toward fully integrated CADCAM inside
>SolidWorks.

Gee, Why would anybody want to add CAD to SolidWorks?

>Here is the latest:
>
>www.delcamforsolidworks.com

--
Cliff

Cliff

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 6:39:13 PM8/13/09

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 9:59:25 PM8/13/09

to

On Aug 13, 7:55 am, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 13, 4:13 am, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:
>
> > They have only been trying to integrate solid part machining /FBM into
> > solid modelers for about 10years now, get with the "program"
> > maybe, just maybe, they'll get it?
>
> Who the fuck is "they"? No CAM company wants to spend money on CAD
> development any longer. Most have very tired, outdated, wireframe CAD
> with some crappy solid modeling tossed on top.... SmartCAM, Mastercam,
> etc.

If you'd been paying attention "they" Solidworks/Solidedge/SolidCAM/ &
a few others over the years. -geeze - must have been on rant at that
time huh?

>
> > We'll see about that. Pro/E - Pro/Man? How many "little
> > guys" using that shit? Whata joke!
>
> All SolidWorks is an easier to use Pro/E that's makes full use of what
> Windows has to offer with more modern marketing with what probably is
> the worlds best VAR network.

No Shit Sherlock
Pro/E Pro/Man I started with ver14 circa '95 same with Cimatron,
because Pro/Man sucked so bad, we had to use Cimatron. Nothing else
comparied besides UG or SDRC-both of with sucked at CNC toolpaths at
that time.
I started with Solidworks 96 just to play with at home.

>
> > I'm not a software writer, but I can tell you when you take 2
> > independant CAD/CAM programs & try to combine them, IT DON'T WORK, for
> > very long.
>
> Wrong. Its now working very well and that's why so many CAM companies
> are moving to offer CAM inside of SolidWorks. While I don't like
> SolidWorks using a program like Solid Edge with ST when you have to
> seriously modify your customers model now makes the situation
> tolerable. Even better, is the FACT that SolidCAM doesn't just run
> inside of SolidWorks.

Well were dose it run? outside? Thats gotta suck.

> If Autodesk ever gets their shit together with
> Inventor-Fusion it might become a very attractive option and would not
> require the use of Solid Edge with ST. That's a big if because
> Autodesk is an asshole company.

Forget Autocad - its for Architects & 2.5D world people- which there
are allot still left. It always has been & always will.

>
> SolidWorks gives CAM developers some great tools to work with. Imagine
> being able to have high quality chaining you can actually see rather
> than what Mastercam has now... chains with thin wireframe arrows that
> often disappear and are often very hard to see.

No problem in IT13, you have a choice of chain highlighting by font or
color. Also MANY options on how to chain selections - by window,
criteria, level, pick , backup , closed/open-surf edges/ & tons more

>
> > It seems that trying to limp along & keep kicking a sleeping dog
> > (MCx'ers)- turning existing cam software in to un-usable buggy
> > behemoths- is the way things progress?
>

> Nope. CNC Software has no choice now other than to try and make
> Mastercam CAD much, much better.

Why CAD better? WTF?
MasterCAM is what is says: CAM with CAD fer show? not really a stong
point? Nobody does detailed technical drawings/article drawings with
MC detailing? maybe just "In House" stuff for the guys on the floor.

> Most other companies have thrown in
> the towel and will ride the integrated into SolidWorks approach like
> many other CAM vendors are doing. CAM is now going to get much better
> at a much faster pace than in the recent past.

Seen Cimatron Elete? WAY too much for the "average" shop.

>
> Speaking of the past... for the wrong answers from someone who lives
> in the very distant past and talks out his ass about machining and
> most CADCAM subjects

Seems like you are the only one with a problem with it. I dont see
anyone else complaining?

> be sure to read your pal Cliffy Huprich's

Its official he's now the"Kernel Clifford" - young grasshopper-
somebody's gotta keep you in check. I think he's doing a good job at
that. If I were to guess, I'd say he's quite a few up on ya! Man you
must be feeling .......? KiNdA sIcK?

BB has the right idea. GTFOH

> response. As usual it will be wrong,

Wrong Wrong Wrong the whole fucking world is wrong- is that all you
can say?

> filled with lies and so
> uninformed

some people think they are informed by reading & running their mouth,
others gain wisdom by doing.

>that it will be laughable.

Laughing - HA - just look at the waste of time & shit you leave here-
Now thats a laugh.

OK(believe nothing you hear & maybe 50% of what you see)

with yesterdays IT13 building
Tomorrows Dreams

Joe788

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 10:26:30 PM8/13/09

to

On Aug 13, 6:59 pm, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

> If you'd been paying attention "they" Solidworks/Solidedge/SolidCAM/ &
> a few others over the years. -geeze - must have been on rant at that
> time huh?

This makes no sense. You must have taken my advise and shoved one of
your Holeum's up you ass. Take it out and try again.

> I started with Solidworks 96 just to play with at home.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing this. The reason I should care is?

> Well were dose it run? outside? Thats gotta suck.

Try a search for InventorCAM. Let us know how you make out.

> Forget Autocad - its for Architects & 2.5D world people- which there
> are allot still left. It always has been & always will.

Nope. Wrong again. Your track record on being right really sucks.
Autodesk Inventor isn't based on AutoCAD at all and it is purely
mechanical.

> No problem in IT13, you have a choice of chain highlighting by font or
> color. Also MANY options on how to chain selections - by window,
> criteria, level, pick , backup , closed/open-surf edges/ & tons more

No doubt but when it comes to production machining Cimatron doesn't
have the tools. Suggest you read what I said should be done with
Gibbscam till it sinks in.

> MasterCAM is what is says: CAM with CAD fer show? not really a stong
> point? Nobody does detailed technical drawings/article drawings with
> MC detailing? maybe just "In House" stuff for the guys on the floor.

Ever heard of Mastercam Design? It's what it says: Mastercam Design.

> Its official he's now the"Kernel Clifford" - young grasshopper-
> somebody's gotta keep you in check.

Nobody keeps me in check and you know it. Many have tried and all have
failed and all will continue to fail.

>I think he's doing a good job at that. If I were to guess, I'd say he's quite a few up on ya!

I'd say you're full of shit and are desperate.

> BB has the right idea. GTFOH

Suggest you worry about your own ass rather than BB who's got his own
problems.

Joe788

unread,

Aug 13, 2009, 10:39:33 PM8/13/09

to

On Aug 13, 7:26 pm, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Nobody keeps me in check and you know it. Many have tried and all have
> failed and all will continue to fail.
>

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Says the guy who had to change his username!

unread,

Aug 14, 2009, 6:32:28 PM8/14/09

to

On Aug 14, 6:21 am, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:26:30 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> MasterCAM is what is says: CAM with CAD fer show? not really a stong
> >> point? Nobody does detailed technical drawings/article drawings with
> >> MC detailing? maybe just "In House" stuff for the guys on the floor.
>
> >Ever heard of Mastercam Design? It's what it says: Mastercam Design.
>
> But once you design a Mastercam who would buy it??
> Have YOU ever designed one?
> --
> Cliff

> Have YOU ever designed one?

Yes I did! Quite a few actually. A Mastercam car! Pinwood Derby
special XYZ "scale" to fit a standard pinewood block. I still have one
for show & tell. When the kids were small(mid 90's) we did a "Shop
Field Trip" day one Saturday. So long story short, I "borrowed" the MC
car 3D geometery, put it in Cimatron- fixed-itup so it was watertight
fer shits & giggles, xyz scaled it, toolpathed-it. As an experiment&
fer grins I brought it into Solidworks from Cimatron thru IGES file
(try that one Gurus) One reason nobody likes Cimatron- F'in IGES
default settings are ..... well... wrong for most everybodys CAD/CAM.
A couple toggle settings & it makes sweet IGES files for Mastercam
(with drawings/views/levels/dims everything nicey nicey not ontop of
one another geometery like I'm sure most have expericed with Cimatron
translation + a dumb solid into Solidworks to do additional cuts
(resessed wheel wells)/rads - tweeking, & so on.

I have 2 sons, so there have been quite a few Pinwood derby cars.
Needless to say, the CNC machined cars never won. But they looked
nice.
My oldest did win the Derby one year, his 10 min of fame. It was a Dad/
Son hand carved- the way its supposed to be.

Over the years my G-Code MC car & other Solid car designs have made it
onto many blocks of wood for kids in other Packs & even some Aluminum
"Dad's" cars, by one of my Hurco buddies I gave the code to.

Well, just one more reason to "Dump your CAM &
get .................... oh ya Cima - Who?

--

\|||/
(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~
the self proclaimed IT13 ©® king
<or at least until further notice>

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 15, 2009, 8:07:12 PM8/15/09

to

I've "keept" this one going a while now, so lets do alittle review on
the reasons TO or not to DUMP & RUN:

1) Cimatron has been light years ahead of Mastercam for years.Mar 11,
6:16 am

2)> vinny wrote:
> > From what Iv'e looked at one version ago, cimitron would not be my choice to> > build molds if I had 15 grand to spend.
poor Vinny, I think he's in a better place now?
BD > Mastercam is steaming pile of shit compared to Cimatron, it ain't
worth> adding anything too.
Hehehehehe! Steaming POS LOL!

3)If your a wireframe & surface head, you'd love Cimatron IT13(its
only
6 yrs old) There is nothing that I have found it cant surface model,
fillet, blend -cheat ect.. Not having to be concerned with silly
things like surface normals & drive surfaces.

4)The FACT is that Mastercam is a very buggy program that costs shops
lots to lost time.

JB on a "good day"<g>

5)I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
was
severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago and it
has
been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

Hmmm

6)> No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were
> showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
> when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
> alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
> mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
> creating separate operations for each hole.

Sweet!

7)I have played with Catia, UGS, Solidworks, have ten years in with
Inventor,
20 with Autocad, you guys have motivated me to try out Cimatron.

Amen brother!

8)One other cool feature of an integrated system is you get a REAL
modeler. Much hype has been touted by a certain person here about
"Synchronous Technology" but I must say it's THE biggest advance for
those of use that must tweak a customers "dumb" solid model to make it
work. It's dead simple to use. It even keeps a history of the changes.
I
would think Cimatron would have something similar.
(upto last post #40-Bill Mar 13, 8:03 pm)

will continue later.

9)

--

(until further notice)

Joe788

unread,

Aug 15, 2009, 8:37:53 PM8/15/09

to

On Aug 15, 5:07 pm, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:

> I've "keept" this one going a while now, so lets do alittle review on
> the reasons TO or not to DUMP & RUN:
>
> 1) Cimatron has been light years ahead of Mastercam for years.Mar 11,
> 6:16 am

Agree, Cimatron has been in many areas but it lacks the needed 2 1/2
axis milling production tools. It has no lathe module and I don't
believe its got native Wire EDM either.

> BD > Mastercam is steaming pile of shit compared to Cimatron, it ain't
> worth> adding anything too.

When it comes to surfacing no doubt it is. Surfacing tools are just a
part of the tool set I need.

> 4)The FACT is that Mastercam is a very buggy program that costs shops
> lots to lost time.
>
> JB on a "good day"<g>

It's the buggiest CAM program I've ever used. I have to close and
restart Mastercam at the very least two times a week and sometimes up
to 5 times.

> 5)I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
> Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
> was
> severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago and it
> has
> been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

How soon before you can help fucking morons like Vinny and Cliffy
Huprich figure this one out? How soon before you can help Bottlebob
figure out that just because Mastercam is the most popular doesn't
mean it's good at the basics.... for Christ sake Mastercam can't even
get drilling right!

> 6)> No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were
>
> > showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
> > when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
> > alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
> > mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
> > creating separate operations for each hole.

Very nice! There is a lot more to drilling than a fucking moron like
Cliff Huprich or the real, fake Joe788 have a clue about.

> 8)One other cool feature of an integrated system is you get a REAL
> modeler. Much hype has been touted by a certain person here about
> "Synchronous Technology" but I must say it's THE biggest advance for
> those of use that must tweak a customers "dumb" solid model to make it
> work. It's dead simple to use. It even keeps a history of the changes.

For years I've said you can't separate CAM from CAD because you need
great CAD to have great CAM and fucking morons like Cliffy Huprich and
James Meyette disagreed. James Meyette would post some crap like it's
Master*CAM* not MasterCAD.... yeah right. What a fucking moron.

Solid Edge with ST is the best direct modeler I've ever used by far!
There is no hype. It’s how a direct modeling program should be made
and it’s user interface blows the fucking doors off other direct
modelers with SpaceClaim being the exception. I greatly prefer it to
CoCreate's user interface. The problem is no one is going to create
CAM to run inside of Solid Edge with ST except Siemens. The same
problem exists for CoCreate because PTC now owns it and PTC has their
head up their ass when it comes to CAM.

It's also a major problem that Siemens is proving that like UGS they
can't market for shit either.

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 15, 2009, 11:41:18 PM8/15/09

to

On Aug 15, 7:37 pm, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 5:07 pm, cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:
>
> > I've "keept" this one going a while now, so lets do alittle review on
> > the reasons TO or not to DUMP & RUN:
>
> > 1) Cimatron has been light years ahead of Mastercam for years.Mar 11,
> > 6:16 am
>
> Agree, Cimatron has been in many areas but it lacks the needed 2 1/2
> axis milling production tools. It has no lathe module and I don't
> believe its got native Wire EDM either.

Yes & No
Alot of 2 1/2D production stuff in IT13- very much "auto config" type
templete type machining. Once set up for "your shop's type of work"
its a breeze......... Dont know a holy heck of alot on Elete yet.
Proley F-ed up?? Thats why enter: Gibbscam- 2 1/2D guys- Lathe heads-
IT13 had a wire EDM module that worked well with Agie? or was it
Charmelles? Hmmm... Been awhile, I'd have to dig an old ver of IT to
find That answer.

>
> > BD > Mastercam is steaming pile of shit compared to Cimatron, it ain't
> > worth> adding anything too.
>
> When it comes to surfacing no doubt it is. Surfacing tools are just a
> part of the tool set I need.

Surfacing tools to me are a LIFE SAVER! Ya its just a part, but in
Moldmaking its Freekin Major! Lots-o-re-moldeling/blending/adding just
a little draft here or there/blending parting line mismatches due to
opposing draft angles ect/ run-off tpye parting line wells - you name
it!
Surfacing keeps you going especially when solids fail ( that never
happens) - with out to much extra fluff like datums / axis/ planes /
constrained drawings- ect.

>
> > 4)The FACT is that Mastercam is a very buggy program that costs shops
> > lots to lost time.
>
> > JB on a "good day"<g>
>
> It's the buggiest CAM program I've ever used. I have to close and
> restart Mastercam at the very least two times a week and sometimes up
> to 5 times.
>
> > 5)I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran
> > Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
> > was
> > severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago and it
> > has
> > been nothing but a dissapointment to me.
>
> How soon before you can help fucking morons like Vinny and Cliffy
> Huprich figure this one out? How soon before you can help Bottlebob
> figure out that just because Mastercam is the most popular doesn't
> mean it's good at the basics.... for Christ sake Mastercam can't even
> get drilling right!

Oh boy here it comes, the green eyed monster is rearing its ugly
head....
Hey I have a soft spot for Mastercam- (Quicksilver ver2.6 in my mind)
The kids at High School can use ver9 w/o much problem, its good for
them?
Seems it just went to hell in a hand basket with the X release? See
another semi half way decent thing gone to shit.
Little secret: MC ver? 7? 8? mid 90's- saved my ass before I was
totally up to speed on IT.
It was a crutch to fall back on till Jedi traning was complete<g>

>
> > 6)> No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were
>
> > > showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
> > > when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
> > > alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
> > > mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
> > > creating separate operations for each hole.
>
> Very nice! There is a lot more to drilling than a fucking moron like
> Cliff Huprich or the real, fake Joe788 have a clue about.

Anyone ever use one of those drills that go around an inside corner?
In wood of course....

>
> > 8)One other cool feature of an integrated system is you get a REAL
> > modeler. Much hype has been touted by a certain person here about
> > "Synchronous Technology" but I must say it's THE biggest advance for
> > those of use that must tweak a customers "dumb" solid model to make it
> > work. It's dead simple to use. It even keeps a history of the changes.

Hmmmmmm.....
All said & done history trees sux- DELETE! like UG can do? I like
that. Just gimme a dumb solid, I'll do my own shit, they way I want.
Usually things are muffed somewhere in big history tree models. Either
by inexpericed users/ other BS artists ect.

>
> For years I've said you can't separate CAM from CAD because you need
> great CAD to have great CAM and fucking morons like Cliffy Huprich and
> James Meyette disagreed. James Meyette would post some crap like it's
> Master*CAM* not MasterCAD.... yeah right. What a fucking moron.

So its kinda like:
You can take the Boy out of the Country, but you can't take the
Country out of the Boy? :-)

>
> Solid Edge with ST is the best direct modeler I've ever used by far!
> There is no hype. It’s how a direct modeling program should be made
> and it’s user interface blows the fucking doors off other direct
> modelers with SpaceClaim being the exception. I greatly prefer it to
> CoCreate's user interface. The problem is no one is going to create
> CAM to run inside of Solid Edge with ST except Siemens. The same
> problem exists for CoCreate because PTC now owns it and PTC has their
> head up their ass when it comes to CAM.

PTC? Wildfire? CoCreateThe "Premier" Solid Molder of the world? Come
on now!

> head up their ass when it comes to CAM.

Yep been that way fer years now, aint gonna get any better.

>
> It's also a major problem that Siemens is proving that like UGS they
> can't market for shit either.

Nobody can market their stuff- Marketing people........ well.........
Hmmmm........... Some are good though! just not in the CAD/CAM
industry.
Why should there be? aint no money in it. Who likes to work for free?
I've always thought about switching to marketing. I do know what
people like, problem being nobody listens<g>
======================================================================

I've "keept" this one going a while now, so lets do alittle review on
the reasons TO or not to DUMP & RUN:

1) Cimatron has been light years ahead of Mastercam for years.Mar 11,
6:16 am

2)> vinny wrote:

> > From what Iv'e looked at one version ago, cimitron would not be my choice to> > build molds if I had 15 grand to spend.

poor Vinny, I think he's in a better place now?

BD > Mastercam is steaming pile of shit compared to Cimatron, it ain't
worth> adding anything too.

Hehehehehe! Steaming POS LOL!

3)If your a wireframe & surface head, you'd love Cimatron IT13(its
only
6 yrs old) There is nothing that I have found it cant surface model,
fillet, blend -cheat ect.. Not having to be concerned with silly
things like surface normals & drive surfaces.

4)The FACT is that Mastercam is a very buggy program that costs shops
lots to lost time.

JB on a "good day"<g>

5)I'll back that statement. Mastercam blows for drilling cycles. I ran

Cimatron for 15 years prior to our shop switching to Mastercam and i
was
severely dissapointed. We switched to Mastercam four years ago and it
has
been nothing but a dissapointment to me.

Hmmm

6)> No first hand experience myself yet, but our Cimatron gurus were

> showing me how it automatically adjusts feed rates at intersections
> when drilling intersecting water lines in molds for example. That
> alone is priceless when you do a lot of unattended / semi-attended
> mold machining. No such functionality like that in Mastercam without
> creating separate operations for each hole.

Sweet!

7)I have played with Catia, UGS, Solidworks, have ten years in with
Inventor,
20 with Autocad, you guys have motivated me to try out Cimatron.

Amen brother!

8)One other cool feature of an integrated system is you get a REAL

modeler. Much hype has been touted by a certain person here about
"Synchronous Technology" but I must say it's THE biggest advance for
those of use that must tweak a customers "dumb" solid model to make it
work. It's dead simple to use. It even keeps a history of the changes.

Cliff

unread,

It IS Master*CAM*.

>Solid Edge with ST is the best direct modeler I've ever used by far!

You don't have it & have never used it. Hence you lie again, as usual.

>There is no hype.

Hence all the help you have given Phil, right?

> It�s how a direct modeling program should be made
>and it�s user interface blows the fucking doors off other direct
>modelers with SpaceClaim being the exception.

Idiot. Explicit modelers are not new. Nor are parametrics.

>I greatly prefer it to
>CoCreate's user interface.

You don't have or use that either.

>The problem is no one is going to create
>CAM to run inside of Solid Edge with ST except Siemens.

Idiot.

>The same
>problem exists for CoCreate because PTC now owns it and PTC has their
>head up their ass when it comes to CAM.

Which is why some of their stuff is so advanced even today.

>It's also a major problem that Siemens is proving that like UGS they
>can't market for shit either.

Like not selling complex stuff to morons, idiots & fools?

Which is why UG is the market leader, right?

Information & facts just go in his head & drool right back out.
I think they get afraid of the crazy, the dark & being so alone.
--
Cliff

vinny

unread,

Aug 16, 2009, 4:24:07 PM8/16/09

to

"cncmillgil" <mil...@cin.net> wrote in message
news:bd6d91d0-7a7c-49e9...@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

Well, yes I am.
But I feel quoted out of context even though I don't remember typing that.

The last place I worked we were looking at upgrading from mastercam 9.1.
We played with x1 for 3 months. The stuff was absolute junk. The interface
ruined anything good about it. We eventually went back to 9.1.
We looked at a lot of systems that went into solidworks, and for us those
were the best way to go, for price and performance.

Now cimitron...
I looked at the electrode manufacturing stuff, and I felt it wasn't quite
there yet. (maybe 2-3 years ago)And for 15 grand and the fact we would of
had to buy a new computer, and spend money and time on training I felt there
was better ways to go.
Now...that doesn't say cimitron sucks. It says a lot about the conditions
of the system where I worked at the time.
Now fast forward to where I am now.
They bought NX2 when it first came out, to replace smartcam as a long term
solution. They wanted to use the same stuff for design and machining, with a
company thats going to be around for a while, considering smartcam just went
belley up on them.
UG has been around since the 60's, its been at los alomos, lockheed,
cessna, etc...
Plus they made the big decision to go 100%.
The last place I worked lacked the leadership at the owner level to commit
to such a thing.

Now that said, I'm sure cimmitron is just as good as UG.
But I wouldn't recommend either of them to the last place I worked. I would
suggest a system that runs inside of solidworks.
Cheap, but the cad end would still kickass.
Training would be extremely cheap since they already run solidworks.
And no computer upgrades would need to be done.

As far as UG over cimitron? Doesn't matter. Where I work has UG, so now,
that's the best damn system in the world to me.
Considering it has Camax written all over it, it might just be the best?

cncmillgil

unread,

Aug 17, 2009, 7:03:35 AM8/17/09

to

No shit, I'm CCPing these in from the ongoing post. Damn I too have
problems with memory.<g>

>
> The last place I worked we were looking at upgrading from mastercam 9.1.

It's looking like ver9.XX was the last of the "Mowhekins" probably
like IT13 is. All good shit goes away for cheaper/easier/more??
whatever.

> We played with x1 for 3 months. The stuff was absolute junk. The interface
> ruined anything good about it. We eventually went back to 9.1.

I think its kinda the same way with Cimatron initial releases of
Elete. Its hard to get the old die-hard IT users to switch. Specialliy
if your happy/confident in g-code output & the splindles are running.
Basicalily its a simple explination for Cimatron, but not with
Mastercam.
IT13 does just about everything I'll ever have to do,besides 5X stuff?
so why upgrade/switch learn new? Its rock solid down & dirty get'er
done shit!
HTF can you beat that?????????(besides CAMEX- but thats another
debate)

If I worked at a 5axis place(i did at one time- Fidia's running off of
Delcam) I would look a little closer into Elete or UG.
So for now I'll take your word on NX.
I'm trusting you now man.... Don't fuck me up LOL!

> We looked at a lot of systems that went into solidworks, and for us those
> were the best way to go, for price and performance.
>

> Now cimitron...
> I looked at the electrode manufacturing stuff, and I felt it wasn't quite
> there yet. (maybe 2-3 years ago)And for 15 grand and the fact we would of
> had to buy a new computer, and spend money and time on training I felt there
> was better ways to go.
> Now...that doesn't say cimitron sucks. It says a lot about the conditions
> of the system where I worked at the time.

Exactly- well said- conditions

> of the system where I worked at the time.

Make due with what you have.

> Now fast forward to where I am now.
> They bought NX2 when it first came out, to replace smartcam as a long term
> solution. They wanted to use the same stuff for design and machining, with a
> company thats going to be around for a while, considering smartcam just went
> belley up on them.
> UG has been around since the 60's, its been at los alomos, lockheed,
> cessna, etc...
> Plus they made the big decision to go 100%.
> The last place I worked lacked the leadership at the owner level to commit
> to such a thing.
>
> Now that said, I'm sure cimmitron is just as good as UG.

Its better in some ways, & worse in others- whats new?

Every body's heard of Mastercam,Smartcam,UG, even SurfCam&TekSoft
around here, but not alot heard of cimmitron:-) Good thing we have (2)
Joe's here to "Slain it to us Lucy"
Oh sorry, I refer to it as IT13

> But I wouldn't recommend either of them to the last place I worked. I would
> suggest a system that runs inside of solidworks.

They must be "newbies" maybe not to swift with technology- lots o
places like that.

> Cheap, but the cad end would still kickass.

Pay now or pay latter- its very true with CAM systems. They can "make
or break" places.

> Training would be extremely cheap since they already run solidworks.
> And no computer upgrades would need to be done.

This is what truly amazes me till this day.
IT13 will run on a 266mHz P4 with 1 gig ram. - slow but is is useable!
Dont shade the part to much. It works! It dont crash! HTF do they do
it?

>
> As far as UG over cimitron? Doesn't matter. Where I work has UG, so now,
> that's the best damn system in the world to me.
> Considering it has Camax written all over it, it might just be the best?

Check out 3dextreme.com he still uses CAMEX

Stay tuned - More to come!