I need a knot that releases "explodes" under heavy loads
Parrot
I know, most people want a knot to will hold under heavy loads but I am a
backpacker. That means, I go out into the woods, often for several days, and
I carry all of the food I need in a pack on my back. Since I want me, and
not the bears or other critters to eat the food, I hang it, each night, from
the high branches of a nearby tree. To hang the stuff, I put a rock in a
bag, connect the rock and bag to the end of a line, throw the rock over the
branch, disconnect the rock bag, connect up my goodies and then haul the
stuff up to the branch.
The problem is, occasionally, when I throw the rock, it gets stuck in the
tree. Sometimes the rock wraps around the line. Sometime it isn't heavy
enough to penetrate the foliage and then gets wedged in the crook of some of
the branches when I try to pull it back for another attempt. When this
happens, we not only lose the rock (who cares) and the throwing bag (small
potatoes) but also the line ($15-$30 and probably the only way to hang the
food. a big problem).
What I need is a knot that will hold under light to moderate loads (enough
to haul the line over the branch) but will release when the rock get stuck
in the tree and I get annoyed and give it a good yank. The knot would be
used to tie the rock bag to the line. Alternatively, it could be within the
line itself, a foot or two away from the rock back bag (This would allow us
to swing the rock by the line as we attempt to develop enough torque to send
it up to the branch).
All of the "exploding" knots that I have found require a "release" line
which would effectively double the amount of line that we would need carry
not to mention double the amount of line the rock most pull up to the
branch.
It would be best that after the knot releases, there were no remnants of the
knot (that might get hung up in the tree) on the "line" side of the knot. If
there are remnants of the knot on the rock bag side of the knot and it
causes the rock to hung up and live in the tree for the next hundred years.
well, I could live with that.
Thank you
Parrot
rootw...@yahoo.com
itself or a branch a few times, it may be impossible to apply a
"heavy" load at all due to the accumulation of friction. For example:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/friction.html
For that reason, it may be a better bet to use some disposable line in
the form of light twine or monofilament fishing line. Then use the
disposable line as a pilot line to pull your rope where you wish.
MtnTraveler
>
[SNIP]
When this
> happens, we not only lose the rock (who cares) and the throwing bag (small
> potatoes) but also the line ($15-$30 and probably the only way to hang the
> food. a big problem).
Are you using climbing rope for this? Kevlar? Why aren't you using cheap
paracord for this? It's lightweight. Strong enough for ANY backpack
load. Cost... about two US dollars for enough to throw over a branch.
You 'should' be carrying an extra 15-20 meters of this anyway! I carried
the same 25-meter hank of paracord for 20 years of backpacking. (Of
course, by the end of those 20 years it was a bit shorter!) We used it
for so many different purposes around the tent site, usually not cutting
it, but working off both ends at the same time.
> All of the "exploding" knots that I have found require a "release" line
> which would effectively double the amount of line that we would need carry
> not to mention double the amount of line the rock most pull up to the
> branch.
Your 'release line' can be made of braided fishing 'trotline.' 10 meters
of this will weigh less than a ball pen, available in 50-100lbs test
strength, and will work perfectly for pulling out a pin in your knot.
Parrot
<rootw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8369aba-49a0-4d35...@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> The difficulty with what you ask is that once the rope wraps around
> itself or a branch a few times, it may be impossible to apply a
> "heavy" load at all due to the accumulation of friction. For example:
>
> http://notableknotindex.webs.com/friction.html
>
Actually the rock almost never wraps around a branch in the manor shown.
Generally, it gets hung up on a twig or tangled up in a crook of branch.
The rock usually does not have enough enery to make more that one trip over
the branch. (Although, I guess it could happen)
> For that reason, it may be a better bet to use some disposable line in
> the form of light twine or monofilament fishing line. Then use the
> disposable line as a pilot line to pull your rope where you wish.
Good idea.
Parrot
news:bi5km.13392$%F4....@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> Parrot wrote:
>>
> [SNIP]
> When this
>> happens, we not only lose the rock (who cares) and the throwing bag
>> (small potatoes) but also the line ($15-$30 and probably the only way to
>> hang the food. a big problem).
>
> Are you using climbing rope for this?
Nope.
Kevlar?
Nope.
> Why aren't you using cheap paracord for this? It's lightweight. Strong
> enough for ANY backpack load. Cost... about two US dollars for enough to
> throw over a branch.
I am using a a lightweight "paracord". You seem to be kinda off on the
priceing though. REI wanted $15.95 for 50 feet. But before you start the
lecture on how I could find it cheaper at "X" I have this thing where I like
to be able to find my bear hanging rope after it gets dark. (Sometimes you
can get the line in the tree before dark but you finish eating after dark.
And then there is case where after you get all cozy in the tent, you take
off your clothes and you find one more powerbar wrapper in your pocket and
that wrapper needs to go in your trash bag that is.... of course, hanging a
tree. And then there is when you are laying awake in you tent at 11:00 and
the sun went down at 8:00 and you have a craving for the jelly beans that
are now.... hanging from a tree somewhere.) So I use a reflective cord
(about $0.30 a foot, or $15.00 for 50 ft, a little cheaper than the non
reflective paracord at REI)
> You 'should' be carrying an extra 15-20 meters of this anyway!
I had extra.
> I carried the same 25-meter hank of paracord for 20 years of backpacking.
> (Of course, by the end of those 20 years it was a bit shorter!) We used it
> for so many different purposes around the tent site, usually not cutting
> it, but working off both ends at the same time.
As I said, I had extra. In fact I had 3 sections of cord that I could coble
together for a total of 50 feet. I didn't do that though, since each of my
3 traveling companions had brought thier bear hanging cords, so we used one
of theirs.
But, mine... mine is still in that darn tree!! And I want to avoid that in
the future!
>
>> All of the "exploding" knots that I have found require a "release" line
>> which would effectively double the amount of line that we would need
>> carry not to mention double the amount of line the rock most pull up to
>> the branch.
>
Didn't I say that already.
> Your 'release line' can be made of braided fishing 'trotline.' 10 meters
> of this will weigh less than a ball pen, available in 50-100lbs test
> strength, and will work perfectly for pulling out a pin in your knot.
>
Finally some news that I can use.
Thank you, I'll look into it.
Larry Green
> <rootw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> For that reason, it may be a better bet to use some disposable line in
>> the form of light twine or monofilament fishing line. Then use the
>> disposable line as a pilot line to pull your rope where you wish.
>
>
> Good idea.
>
That was a method we used to use for getting Amateur Radio antennas strung
between trees when operating 'in the field'.
One of the guys in our club had a modified child's bow and arrow set. He had
mounted a fishing spinning reel to the bow and the fishing line was attached to
the arrow which had a small rubber ball (like a squash ball) glued to the end to
cover the point and to provide some weight to allow it to drop back to the
ground once it was through the tree. As we needed to get the antennas about
50-75 feet up the trees there was no way we could throw a line that high.
Once the fishing line was through the tree and back on the ground it was
attached to a long length of paracord and reeled in. The paracord was then
attached to the final line that would be used to raise the antenna and hauled
back the other way. This process was then repeated on a second tree and once
both heavy lines were in place they were attached to the ends of the antenna and
it could be hauled into position.
--
Larry Green
Leadchipmunk
> What I need is a knot that will hold under light to moderate loads (enough
> to haul the line over the branch) but will release when the rock get stuck
> in the tree and I get annoyed and give it a good yank.
The first thing that came to my mind was a slipped constrictor knot,
which could be seen in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrictor_knot#Slipped_Constrictor_knot
The only thing I would do is tie it with the slipped part first. First
make a bight, then tie the constrictor around the bight and the rock
bag.
I haven't tested this, and don't know how much force it could need
before pulling free. If cinched down tight enough, it should be able
to hold through throwing the rock bag without slipping.
This will only work if the rock gets stuck in a V or between branches,
not if it happens to wrap around the branch.