Reduction of DMS in light lagers/pilsners
Steve/Aus
The one problem I seem to struggle to overcome is DMS in light lagers
and pilsners style beers.
The two latest versions of these beers I have made both have a hint of DMS.
I realise that making these styles is extremely challenging (why else would
I make them for if it wasn't for the challenge) with only very slight off
flavours punching through, but DMS is the major problem now.
I take all precautionary steps to avoid it during the boil and chilling,
prior to fermentation. Now, I am thinking of constructing a large surface
area cold plate, running the wort over the top of it slowly to chill, pick
up oxygen and release DMS all at the same time on it's way into the
fermenter, while pumping iced salt water though the coils.
The DMS does mellow to almost undetectable with extended lagering times, and
it is not very strong to begin with but, it does have a low taste threshold
and reduction of it to zero is my aim. Other than the usual methods of DMS
reduction, which I am aware of, has anybody developed any novel ways of
further reducing this menacing problem in light lagers.
Steve W (in Aus)
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
What malts are you using? This seems to make a big difference. I got a
sack of Best Malz pilsener a while back, and anything made using it as a
base is pretty corny, even using my big immersion chiller which gets the
wort to below SMM->DMS production temps within 3-4 minutes or so. My
normal malt is Weyermann, which doesn't have this problem.
--
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John Bleichert
> Steve/Aus wrote:
<snip>
>
> What malts are you using? This seems to make a big difference. I got a
> sack of Best Malz pilsener a while back, and anything made using it as a
> base is pretty corny, even using my big immersion chiller which gets the
> wort to below SMM->DMS production temps within 3-4 minutes or so. My
> normal malt is Weyermann, which doesn't have this problem.
>
Rats. I just bought a sack of BestMalz pils for an upcoming Dortmunder
export and bock. I don't know what DMS even tastes like but I guess
I'm going to find out??
-----------------------------------------------
John Bleichert syb...@earthlink.net
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>> Steve/Aus wrote:
> <snip>
>> What malts are you using? This seems to make a big difference. I got a
>> sack of Best Malz pilsener a while back, and anything made using it as a
>> base is pretty corny, even using my big immersion chiller which gets the
>> wort to below SMM->DMS production temps within 3-4 minutes or so. My
>> normal malt is Weyermann, which doesn't have this problem.
>>
>
> Rats. I just bought a sack of BestMalz pils for an upcoming Dortmunder
> export and bock. I don't know what DMS even tastes like but I guess
> I'm going to find out??
>
Corny. I wouldn't panic, though -- maybe I just got a lousy lot. It's
my first (and only) sack from Best.
If you have an issue, consider doing styles that don't require 100% pils
as a base. Seems ok at 50% or so.
John Bleichert
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>>> Steve/Aus wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> What malts are you using? This seems to make a big difference. I got a
>>> sack of Best Malz pilsener a while back, and anything made using it as a
>>> base is pretty corny, even using my big immersion chiller which gets the
>>> wort to below SMM->DMS production temps within 3-4 minutes or so. My
>>> normal malt is Weyermann, which doesn't have this problem.
>>>
>>
>> Rats. I just bought a sack of BestMalz pils for an upcoming Dortmunder
>> export and bock. I don't know what DMS even tastes like but I guess
>> I'm going to find out??
>>
>
> Corny. I wouldn't panic, though -- maybe I just got a lousy lot. It's
> my first (and only) sack from Best.
>
> If you have an issue, consider doing styles that don't require 100% pils
> as a base. Seems ok at 50% or so.
>
Are you sure that's DMS? How can it *not* be being driven off during
the boil? Everything I've read in here and elsewhere shows DMS to
linger due to an insufficiently robust and/or covered boil - do I
misunderstand this?
In any event, I'll find out in a few months' lagering time from this
Saturday - my Dortmunder export is a single-malt brew...
Thanks,
JB
The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty
> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>> John Bleichert wrote:
>>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>>>> Steve/Aus wrote:
>
> Are you sure that's DMS? How can it *not* be being driven off during
> the boil? Everything I've read in here and elsewhere shows DMS to
> linger due to an insufficiently robust and/or covered boil - do I
> misunderstand this?
>
Nope -- it's definitely DMS. As to why it isn't driven off during the
boil, I dunno (bear in mind it's produced during the boil as well). My
boils are robust and my cooling times are very fast to below 140.
It may be that if a particluar lot of malt contains sufficiently high
levels of SMM, even a fast cooling time isn't sufficient. Never been an
issue with any other malt I've used.
Ranger Steve
<mikey...@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
> John Bleichert wrote:
> >> John Bleichert wrote:
> >>>> Steve/Aus wrote:
>
> > Are you sure that's DMS? How can it *not* be being driven off during
> > the boil? Everything I've read in here and elsewhere shows DMS to
> > linger due to an insufficiently robust and/or covered boil - do I
> > misunderstand this?
>
> Nope -- it's definitely DMS. As to why it isn't driven off during the
> boil, I dunno (bear in mind it's produced during the boil as well). My
> boils are robust and my cooling times are very fast to below 140.
>
> It may be that if a particluar lot of malt contains sufficiently high
> levels of SMM, even a fast cooling time isn't sufficient. Never been an
> issue with any other malt I've used.
>
> --
> (Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)
>
> Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html
>
> Coauthor with Dennis Clark of "Building Robot Drive Trains".
> Buy several copies today!
I've heard (but have no direct evidence) that covering your wort
during the initial part of chilling can leave some amount of DMS that
would otherwise escape in the steam. I leave mine uncovered during
chilling until the temp gets below 130, then I cover it. This takes
only 10 minutes or so, so I don't think it increases the chance of
infection very much. I don't know how much difference it makes, but
it seems like cheap insurance.
Steve
Steve/Aus
"The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty" <mike...@666swampgas.666com>
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com>
>> wrote:
>>> John Bleichert wrote:
>>>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Steve/Aus wrote:
>>
>> Are you sure that's DMS? How can it *not* be being driven off during
>> the boil? Everything I've read in here and elsewhere shows DMS to
>> linger due to an insufficiently robust and/or covered boil - do I
>> misunderstand this?
>>
>
> Nope -- it's definitely DMS. As to why it isn't driven off during the
> boil, I dunno (bear in mind it's produced during the boil as well). My
> boils are robust and my cooling times are very fast to below 140.
>
> It may be that if a particluar lot of malt contains sufficiently high
> levels of SMM, even a fast cooling time isn't sufficient. Never been an
> issue with any other malt I've used.
>
Correct, it is DMS.
It only becomes an issue with light lager styles where the slightest hint of
any undesirable flavours really stands out. It does mellow out with extended
lagering times but, I want to reduce the lagering times down from the usual
8-10 weeks.
Other ways to reduce DMS is to cover it up with more robust flavours. For
example, it is not a problem in stouts and dark ales with the overpowering
flavours of dark malts.
However, Pilsners are my favourite style to brew, only because they're so
damn difficult. I am practically up to commercial standards here and I am
just tweaking the last of the finer techniques.
So, what do I drink when I go to the pub, Pale Ale of course.
Steve W (in Aus)
.
Steve/Aus
"Steve/Aus" <ad...@bigpond.dot.net.dot.au> wrote in message
news:8rDfi.18198$wH4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
Somehow, I am not seeing all the replies to this thread. My ISP newserver
shows four messages while google groups shows eight.
Apologies if my replies seem out of context.
Steve W (in Aus)
John Bleichert
> John Bleichert wrote:
>> The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>>> Steve/Aus wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> What malts are you using? This seems to make a big difference. I got a
>>> sack of Best Malz pilsener a while back, and anything made using it as a
>>> base is pretty corny, even using my big immersion chiller which gets the
>>> wort to below SMM->DMS production temps within 3-4 minutes or so. My
>>> normal malt is Weyermann, which doesn't have this problem.
>>>
>>
>> Rats. I just bought a sack of BestMalz pils for an upcoming Dortmunder
>> export and bock. I don't know what DMS even tastes like but I guess
>> I'm going to find out??
>>
>
> Corny. I wouldn't panic, though -- maybe I just got a lousy lot. It's
> my first (and only) sack from Best.
>
> If you have an issue, consider doing styles that don't require 100% pils
> as a base. Seems ok at 50% or so.
>
For what it's worth, we've had a pils export style on tap now for a
week.
11 lbs 11 ozs BestMalz pils malt
149F for 60 minutes
Started at 1.052, finished at 1.007. No corn whatsoever, nothing off
tasting. Nice clean lager. Worked fine here, which is nice, cuz I can
get sacks of it shipped FedEx to my house at a good price...
So excellent luck with BestMalz here. We have a mai-bock becoming
tappable in October - hopefully it will be as excellent. I'll let yez
know.
JB
--
John Bleichert
> On 2007-06-25, The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty <mike...@666swampgas.666com> wrote:
>> John Bleichert wrote:
> For what it's worth, we've had a pils export style on tap now for a
> week.
>
> 11 lbs 11 ozs BestMalz pils malt
> 149F for 60 minutes
>
> Started at 1.052, finished at 1.007. No corn whatsoever, nothing off
> tasting. Nice clean lager. Worked fine here, which is nice, cuz I can
> get sacks of it shipped FedEx to my house at a good price...
>
> So excellent luck with BestMalz here. We have a mai-bock becoming
> tappable in October - hopefully it will be as excellent. I'll let yez
> know.
>
We also made 2 Vienna lagers with the same malt bill:
11 lbs 10.75 ozs BetsMalz Vienna malt
One with a simple infusion at 150F and one with a double decoction,
just 2 compare. Both beers rocked and both were very, very different
beers. The infusion version is the best beer we've ever made.
No corn - just too add some data.