Damn ....this group is dead!
notbob
back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
nb
Scott
We've been here all along ;)
Maybe everyone has learned evrything and there's nothing left to ask or
discuss ;)
notbob
>
> Maybe everyone has learned evrything and there's nothing left to ask or
> discuss ;)
If that was the case, Bud Light would not continue to exist. ;)
nb
T.J. Higgins
I spend a fair amount of time in my neighborhood pub, where I
drink Yeungling on tap for the same price as the mega-swills.
It always gives me a chuckle when people look at my Yeung and
ask how I can stand the taste of "that dark beer."
Never underestimate the power of advertising. :^(
"The Madison Avenue blues are on my mind." -- BTO
--
TJH
Ranger Steve
Higgins) wrote:
> In article <slrnhgb4oi.3m6.not...@myvai2.notbob.com>, notbob wrote:
>
> Never underestimate the power of advertising. :^(
>
Just like food, people drink with their eyes first. The color of the
beer changes their perception of what they're going to drink. That's
why you'll get the reaction sometimes of "oh, that beer is actually
really good" when someone not used to dark colored beer tries some.
They had steeled themselves for something horribly bitter and are
pleasantly surprised.
Phil
>Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
>back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
Hard times? It's much cheaper to brew your own than to buy it.
Phil
hophead
says...
>
> Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
> back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
I think it's the same-old: lots of web based forums that catch the new
brewers, and many of us old farts drift away until the tide brings us
back to rcb.
Scott
Now, THAT's debateable...let's see for a 5 gallon batch (~ 2 cases)...
10 pounds Marris Otter ~$20
1 pound Crystal ~$2
1 pound Special Roast ~$2
2 oz. EKG Hops ~$4
1 smack pack Wyeast 1968 ~$6
Total ~$34 for 2 cases of beer not including about 8 hours of labor.
BUT...I still do it and will continue to do it :)
Joel
Irrelevant.
--
Joel Plutchak
"New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any
other reason but because they are not already common." - John Locke
John Bleichert
> Phil wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:26:31 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
>>> back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
>>
>> Hard times? It's much cheaper to brew your own than to buy it.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>
> Now, THAT's debateable...let's see for a 5 gallon batch (~ 2 cases)...
> 10 pounds Marris Otter ~$20
???? How about $55 for 55 lbs delivered FedEx to my door from North
Country Malt.
Buy in bulk.
--
-----------------------------------------------
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
Dan Logcher
> On 2009-11-20, Scott <acepilo...@bloomer.net> wrote:
>
>>Phil wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:26:31 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
>>>>back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
>>>
>>>Hard times? It's much cheaper to brew your own than to buy it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Phil
>>
>>Now, THAT's debateable...let's see for a 5 gallon batch (~ 2 cases)...
>>10 pounds Marris Otter ~$20
>
>
> ???? How about $55 for 55 lbs delivered FedEx to my door from North
> Country Malt.
>
> Buy in bulk.
I get the 33lb jugs of LME and use about 3oz hops per 5 gallon batch.
My batch cost is roughly $25-$29 depending on what other things I may
add. My average cost per beer is $0.50. Seems quite a bit cheaper
than buying..
--
Dan
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Not if you factor in your time. The only reason somebody should get into the
hobby of home brewing on any regular basis is if they really enjoy the
creativity and satisfaction of making something you love. Money should play
very little part of the decision. Yes, it is cheaper, but not by that much,
especially if you consider the time that you put into it [obviously, the
larger the batch you make, the less time per pint you put into the beer].
I guess my point is that if you are brewing to save money, don't waste your
time or money on equipment and ingredients, because it just won't be worth it
in the end.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Religion is a crutch, but that's okay... humanity is a cripple.
Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Phil <dogg...@yahoooo.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:26:31 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
>>>back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
>>
>>Hard times? It's much cheaper to brew your own than to buy it.
>
> Irrelevant.
Exactly! I could not agree more.
Steve Bonine
> Not if you factor in your time. The only reason somebody should get into the
> hobby of home brewing on any regular basis is if they really enjoy the
> creativity and satisfaction of making something you love. Money should play
> very little part of the decision. Yes, it is cheaper, but not by that much,
> especially if you consider the time that you put into it [obviously, the
> larger the batch you make, the less time per pint you put into the beer].
>
> I guess my point is that if you are brewing to save money, don't waste your
> time or money on equipment and ingredients, because it just won't be worth it
> in the end.
Allow us the luxury of shades of gray. I don't brew beer ONLY because I
enjoy the creativity, or ONLY for cost reasons, or for any one simple
reason. I enjoy several aspects, including experimenting with different
recipes, making changes to successful batches to make them even more
successful, time spent with friends, and generally learning new things.
As soon as the parts I don't enjoy outweigh the parts that I do, I'll
find something else to do with my time.
The issue of whether brewing your own beer saves money is one that each
of us examines with our own set of parameters. Simply comparing the
cost of ingredients with the cost of an equivalent amount of commercial
beer is very simplistic. Being able to brew what you want has value;
your time has value; not having to drive a long way to buy beer has
value; the fixed cost of equipment affects cost depending on how much
beer you amortize it over. Each of us evaluates these components
differently and conclude that brewing beer saves money, or not. For me,
cost is not an important factor, especially since its evaluation is so
subjective.
Christopher Helms
> On 2009-11-20, Scott <acepilotREM...@bloomer.net> wrote:
>
> > Phil wrote:
> >> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:26:31 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
> >>> back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
>
> >> Hard times? It's much cheaper to brew your own than to buy it.
>
> >> Phil
>
> > Now, THAT's debateable...let's see for a 5 gallon batch (~ 2 cases)...
> > 10 pounds Marris Otter ~$20
>
> ???? How about $55 for 55 lbs delivered FedEx to my door from North
> Country Malt.
>
> Buy in bulk.
How long does a 55 pound bag of malted barley keep?
Thomas T. Veldhouse
>>
>> Buy in bulk.
>
>
> How long does a 55 pound bag of malted barley keep?
A couple of years if sealed and kept dry and cool. Make sure no bugs grow in
there [eggs occassional get dropped in a sack and you end up with an infested
sack of grain if you don't keep the conditions correct].
frater mus
> Now, THAT's debateable...let's see for a 5 gallon batch (~ 2 cases)...
> 10 pounds Marris Otter ~$20
Might be time to get in on a group buy on a pallet; could probably half
the cost of MO.
> 1 smack pack Wyeast 1968 ~$6
It's possible to ranch or wash those little critters to get the cost
down, if you like that kind of thing. I think I like making/streaking
plates better than brewing. (did I just say that out loud?)
--
brother mouse
composed offline and synced later.
http://www.mousetrap.net/mouse/offline.html
Thomas T. Veldhouse
>
> Allow us the luxury of shades of gray. I don't brew beer ONLY because I
> enjoy the creativity, or ONLY for cost reasons, or for any one simple
> reason. I enjoy several aspects, including experimenting with different
> recipes, making changes to successful batches to make them even more
> successful, time spent with friends, and generally learning new things.
> As soon as the parts I don't enjoy outweigh the parts that I do, I'll
> find something else to do with my time.
>
> The issue of whether brewing your own beer saves money is one that each
> of us examines with our own set of parameters. Simply comparing the
> cost of ingredients with the cost of an equivalent amount of commercial
> beer is very simplistic. Being able to brew what you want has value;
> your time has value; not having to drive a long way to buy beer has
> value; the fixed cost of equipment affects cost depending on how much
> beer you amortize it over. Each of us evaluates these components
> differently and conclude that brewing beer saves money, or not. For me,
> cost is not an important factor, especially since its evaluation is so
> subjective.
I was giving simple advise. If you are brewing to save money, then forget
about the hobby. I can't put it any simpler. If you brew for any other
reason, then saving money is simply a bonus and really should play no part in
your decision to brew in my honest opinion.
You are free to brew for whatever reasons you like, but if it really includes
cost savings, you will come to your own conclusion in your time, but I suspect
it will not differ from mine. This has been discussed here many times.
That's all I have to say on the subject.
Steve Bonine
In the tradition of this being Usenet, and the place to beat at the
place in the road where there was once a horse, I choose to respond.
The sentence in your original article that I was responding to was, "The
only reason somebody should get into the hobby of home brewing on any
regular basis is if they really enjoy the creativity and satisfaction of
making something you love." It's one thing to say that saving money
isn't a good reason for brewing your own beer; it's something else
entirely to state that there's only one reason to do it.
So, again, there are many reasons to brew. Some of them have nothing at
all to do with "creativity and satisfaction of making something you love."
I think it's entirely possible for someone to get into brewing beer
because they want to save money and to discover other aspects of the
hobby that keep them at it, even if they realize that they're not saving
money or reach the point where that's not important to them. In fact, I
suspect that's how a lot of people got started.
Oddly enough, I suspect that we're saying the same thing in different words.
notbob
> Joel <plut...@see.headers> wrote:
>> Phil <dogg...@yahoooo.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:26:31 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
>>>>back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
>>>
>>>Hard times? It's much cheaper to brew your own than to buy it.
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>
> Exactly! I could not agree more.
Considering I have over $1K invested in hardware, add maybe 30%-50" of
that cost in time/expense acquiring said h/w (10 gal sys), it has to
be irrelevant. Recent hard times made even off-the-shelf beer a
luxury. Now, my fortunes have changed. I'm now gonna brew cuz I know
what you can do! Cost be damned. ;)
nb
Phil
wrote:
>Phil <dogg...@yahoooo.com> wrote:
I don't homebrew to save money; I do it because it's fun. The fact
that it's cheaper is just the icing on the cake.
Phil
Phil
wrote:
How much would the commercial equivelant cost you?
Phil
Scott
> On 2009-11-20, Scott <acepilo...@bloomer.net> wrote:
>> Phil wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:26:31 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Been awhile. Hard times (and sloth) have kept me from brewing. I'm
>>>> back and pumped. Where did everyone go?
>>> Hard times? It's much cheaper to brew your own than to buy it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>> Now, THAT's debateable...let's see for a 5 gallon batch (~ 2 cases)...
>> 10 pounds Marris Otter ~$20
>
> ???? How about $55 for 55 lbs delivered FedEx to my door from North
> Country Malt.
>
> Buy in bulk.
>
>
have yet to get a grain crusher, so I'm temporarily hosed ;)
Even so, it only knocks of $10 from my brew, so ~$24 for 2 cases. What
the hell DOES a case of cheap American swill (ie Buttwiper) cost these
days? I've been drinking a good IPA from a local brewery at about
$8/six pack...
Scott
Scott
Again, what does a case (24) of Bud cost? If it's around $12, that's 50
cents a bottle. Now, of course, I'm not saying Bud is a decent brew, so
I really don't compare it to homebrew ;)
Scott
homebrew equivalent to Bud!)...I haven't bought a case of commercial
brew for so long, I have no idea what it costs these days? Can you buy
a case of say Sam Adams for $17 (my homebrew case cost from my example)...
John Krehbiel
> I spend a fair amount of time in my neighborhood pub, where I
> drink Yeungling on tap for the same price as the mega-swills.
> It always gives me a chuckle when people look at my Yeung and
> ask how I can stand the taste of "that dark beer."
>
Yeungling is a dark beer? Oh crap, I've been brewing the wrong stuff!
John Krehbiel
>
>
> How long does a 55 pound bag of malted barley keep?
It wouldn't have to keep long for me. I'm sure I'd use it in less than a
year.
John Krehbiel
>
> Irrelevant.
> --
> Joel Plutchak
>
Agreed. I brew what I drink, and I drink what I brew. Monetary
considerations are unimportant.
Yes, I could buy a couple of cases of Old Frothingslosh cheaper than I can
brew it, especially considering my time, but I can brew beer I really like
much cheaper than I could buy it, and the time is spent doing something I
enjoy.
Will Trice
> It always gives me a chuckle when people look at my Yeung and
> ask how I can stand the taste of "that dark beer."
I got the same reaction yesterday from a young lady who sat next to me
at a bar (Firkin and Fox?) in Dulles yesterday. And she had just come
from Belgium where she said she loved the local beer! Sheesh...
--
-Will
will dot trice at comcast dot net
Scott
> T.J. Higgins wrote:
>
>> It always gives me a chuckle when people look at my Yeung and
>> ask how I can stand the taste of "that dark beer."
>
> I got the same reaction yesterday from a young lady who sat next to me
> at a bar (Firkin and Fox?) in Dulles yesterday. And she had just come
> from Belgium where she said she loved the local beer! Sheesh...
>
Well, see...the group ISN'T dead...we were just hibernating till Spring :)
Steve Bonine
> Well, see...the group ISN'T dead...we were just hibernating till Spring :)
Since this is the 32nd followup in less than two days, I hate to think
what might happen when spring comes and the group stops hibernating . . .
Scott
Steve Bonine
Priority check: Usenet vs. brewing. Ah, easy choice.
But for me, winter IS the best brewing season, so I guess I do hibernate
a little in the summer, brewing wise.
Christopher Helms
I think it would be cool if the recipes for defunct commercial brands
were available someplace. Making five gallons of authentic Ballantine
Ale, Drewery's or Rheingold would be a hoot once in a while. A lot of
once popular brands consolidated in the 60s under Associated, G
Heilman, Peter Hand and others, the formulas would have to have come
with them and would probably still exist someplace or other. It's not
like anybody would stand to lose millions of dollars by publishing the
recipe for Gettleman beer, Old Crown Ale or Cinci Cream by letting
home brewers take a whack at the beers our parents and grandparents
drank back in the day. There have to be thousands of those recipes
somewhere or other out there, some of which were probably pretty damn
good beers once upon a time.
bobdrob
fraternal clubs, I have many fond memories of a *sip* of red cap, 'gansett,
piels, rupert's, the aforementioned ballentine, etc. This may explain alot!
But, memories are clouded in a romantic fog, pleasant though it may be. I'd
love to replicate some of these by gone brews just to see what those
"uncles" were arguing about. Ahhh, the days when a short beer could cause
arguments on par with ted williams vs joe dimaggio...
"Christopher Helms" <Chrish...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:acaa0c3e-f01a-4640...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
notbob
> Right on, Bro!
This might be something I'd agree with if I knew what your were
replying to.
> "Christopher Helms" <Chrish...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I think it would be cool if the recipes for defunct commercial brands
> were available someplace. Making five gallons of authentic Ballantine
> Ale.....
I agree! (did you make this statement)?
nb
Steve Bonine
> I think it would be cool if the recipes for defunct commercial brands
> were available someplace. Making five gallons of authentic Ballantine
> Ale, Drewery's or Rheingold would be a hoot once in a while.
One of the problems is picking your version of "authentic". Often beers
changed over time as the brewers tried to tweak the flavor to match what
they thought their customers were looking for.
There's a rather extensive web page on the history of Ballantine at
http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/ballantine_ale.htm. In spite of the
domain name, it doesn't look like a corporate web page. I found a
couple of recipes on the web for things that approximate Ballantine.
You can still buy Ballantine beer today, but who knows how the taste
resembles the beer of decades ago.
I didn't have any luck finding recipes for the other two. I agree that
it might be nice to have a recipe but I wonder how close to anything
"authentic" the outcome would be. Problem is, for a beer no longer
available, there's no way to really know if the clone is a good
approximation to the original.
T.J. Higgins
Christopher Helms
> Christopher Helms wrote:
> > I think it would be cool if the recipes for defunct commercial brands
> > were available someplace. Making five gallons of authentic Ballantine
> > Ale, Drewery's or Rheingold would be a hoot once in a while.
>
> One of the problems is picking your version of "authentic". Often beers
> changed over time as the brewers tried to tweak the flavor to match what
> they thought their customers were looking for.
>
> domain name, it doesn't look like a corporate web page. I found a
> couple of recipes on the web for things that approximate Ballantine.
> You can still buy Ballantine beer today, but who knows how the taste
> resembles the beer of decades ago.
>
> I didn't have any luck finding recipes for the other two. I agree that
> it might be nice to have a recipe but I wonder how close to anything
> "authentic" the outcome would be. Problem is, for a beer no longer
> available, there's no way to really know if the clone is a good
> approximation to the original.
I've gone through old beer ads hoping to find or infer enough
information on different old brands to make a clone and some of the
old adverts are actually fairly chatty about their ingredients, but
not chatty enough. Ballantine was proud of the Brewers Best hops they
used, Drewery's used to put "It's the fuggle hops!" right on the label
and they were very proud of the "special exclusive process" they used
to make their beer light, which sounds like either a fair amount of
rice or a lower mashing temperature, neither of which sound as cool as
a "special exclusive process." Charlie Papazian's book says that until
the early 70's brewers generally used six row barley which implies a
widespread use of adjuncts but I haven't found a beer ad yet in which
they brag about the amount of corn or rice they are using in addition
to all that neat beer stuff. I'll keep digging around. Maybe I'll be
able to pry up enough info to actually try and resurrect a dead brand
some day. It'll be my own Frankenstein Beer.
Bill O'Meally
> I haven't found a beer ad yet in which
> they brag about the amount of corn or rice they are using in
> addition
> to all that neat beer stuff.
Growing up in New York in the '60s, my father always had Rheingold
beer in the house. I recall the jingle, "We took what nature had to
offer. Hops, barley, corn and water clear....[dadadada something about
a 'natural beer']" Can't remember the rest, and couldn't find it on
YouTube.
Found this:
It was apparently aged in cypress vats!
http://www.clarnerwoodworks.com/reclaimed-wood/rheingoldvat-reclaimedwood.htm
--
Bill
"Wise fool."
Gandalf _The Two Towers_
(The Wise will remove 'se' to reach me. The Foolish will not!)
Steve Bonine
> Growing up in New York in the '60s, my father always had Rheingold
> beer in the house. I recall the jingle, "We took what nature had to
> offer. Hops, barley, corn and water clear....[dadadada something about
> a 'natural beer']" Can't remember the rest, and couldn't find it on
> YouTube.
The only jingle I could find highlighted "dry". Perhaps there was another.
http://www.oldtimeradiofans.com/old_radio_commercials/Rheingold_Beer.mp3
John Krehbiel
Found this:
“my beer is Rheingold, the dry beer – think of Rheingold whenever you
buy beer”
at w4.stern.nyu.edu/emplibrary/rheingold.doc
Christopher Helms
> On 2009-11-22, bobdrob <drobn...@verizonSPAMMY.net> wrote:
>
> > Right on, Bro!
>
> This might be something I'd agree with if I knew what your were
> replying to.
>
> > I think it would be cool if the recipes for defunct commercial brands
> > were available someplace. Making five gallons of authentic Ballantine
> > Ale.....
>
> I agree! (did you make this statement)?
>
> nb
I made that statement originally. I made it because I didn't fully
realize the icon that the original Ballantine was. I had just assumed
that it was a regionally popular brand. It was more. Much more. Genius
was at work.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_13_51/ai_63841298/
George
>
> I made that statement originally. I made it because I didn't fully
> realize the icon that the original Ballantine was. I had just assumed
> that it was a regionally popular brand. It was more. Much more. Genius
> was at work.
>
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_13_51/ai_63841298/
>
I wasn't that interested in this thread but read it anyway and am glad
that I did! I don't remember Ballentine but the article was interesting
and, being in Portland, I guess I'm in a good location to taste some of
the recreations.
George
Christopher Helms
> Dan Logcher wrote:
> > John Bleichert wrote:
I bought three of those big cans of Bud in the plastic pack thing not
long ago, tried one and all I could think was "This stuff doesn't
taste like anything at all." I used to like Bud, or at least wasn't
bored with it. Nine years of homebrewing has spoiled me.
Alan Petrillo
Same here. I'm in Florida, and winter is the only time it's practical
to keep the ferment cool enough.
AP