Experience with St Pats
M Silk
30 Aug
Order nearly $300 worth of boiling pots. Ask that unit be delivered
around 12
Sep as I was to be out of the country for a few days.
31 Aug
Receive email confirmation of order.
19 Sep
No pot. Send an email asking about it.
21 Sep
Still no pot. Still no response to the email. I call (on my own dime)
and am told the pots are on back order and should be in in two weeks
15 Oct
Still no pot. Still no call. Send an email asking if order has been
cancelled.
25 Oct
Still no pot. Still no call. Send another email
26 Oct
Recieve this email from company.
At 08:40 AM 10/26/2001, you wrote:
Dear Marshall,
I have tried to get in touch with you over the phone. We were not
able to ship the order out in time for your deadline. We just
recently (last week) received our brewpots back in stock from
Polarware. So, I have not shipped your order.
Let me know if you still want the brewpot and I will ship it out
immediately.
Thank you for writing me,
Lynne O'Connor
No phone calls were noted on my answering machine from company during
this time.
Next email the same day:
If I send it today, which I plan to do. It will arrive to you on
Wednesday.
sorry about the lengthy delay.
Lynne
3 Nov
Sent email stating unit had not arrived yet.
9 Nov
Call (again on my own dime) and am told unit will arrive next Tuesday
(yesterday)
13 Nov
Box finally arrives from St Pats. It seems light. I open it and it
is not what I ordered. Unit inside is addressed to someone thousands
of miles away from me. It has his name and address and full credit
card number.
14 Nov
Last remaining hair pulled from head in frustration.
Mike Uchima
problems -- all orders were filled promptly and correctly. Last time I
bought anything from them was probably about a year ago, so I can't say
for certain whether your situation is an anomaly, or if their customer
service has gone downhill over the past few months. Anyone else order
from them *recently*?
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
M Silk wrote:
>
> Is this a normal business encounter with this organization?
>
> [tale of woe snipped]
NoClue
delivered promptly (after having some initial problems with their website
and a short, polite email exchange that helped solve the problem). FWIW: the
quality of the ingredients was excellent.
Then I recently wrote an email inquiring if they would also offer doubled-up
kits for 10gal - no answer.
I figured the email got lost somewhere, maybe they have too much business
right now. Can happen. But if this is a pattern and not an isolated
incidence, then that's different...
Jo
"Mike Uchima" <uch...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3BF285...@pobox.com...
Mike D' Brewer
to send 2 emails to get a status. No reply to the first. Got back a reply
to the second one saying that they didn't get the first, and were waiting
for a chrome drip tray to go with the chrome tray holder. They offered to
give me a brass tray. I said OK. Was sent a reply that the order would
ship that day (this is now 2 weeks after the order). I got a call the next
day, saying they only had 4" shanks (I ordered 6"). Called them back to see
if these would work on my fridge, they said if they didn't, I could return
them. The stuff showed up 5 days later.
Summary: OK service, kinda slow, would have appreciated an earlier call or
email stating they were out of stock, and would I like a sub.
YMMV,
Mike
Mike Uchima <uch...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3BF285...@pobox.com...
DifferentPiper
>from them *recently*?
>
I order from them all the time. Their ingredients are very good, and they ship
out pretty rapidly. Missed the rest of the "tale of woe", but I've found them
to do a very good job, though as far as technical advice goes, I'd probably ask
here first, just to get the variety of opinions.
Scott
MDixon
M Silk <goo...@msilk.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:1659c7b9.01111...@posting.google.com...
> Is this a normal business encounter with this organization?
No experience with St Pats.
I think any business where an item takes 50 business days from e-mail
confirmation to delivery is excessive (continental US). If the item arrived
wrong, I would complain/cancel the order. Remember you are the customer, you
worked hard for the money, and your order no matter how large or small
should be important to the business.
Hard to brew without a pot...
Cheers,
Mike
Larry Combs
responds to my e-mail in a timely manner.
Larry Combs
The Gar Hole BreweryŽ
LA (Lower Arkansas)
Andy McKellar
>
> Is this a normal business encounter with this organization?
>
The only time I've dealt with her, Lynn was very helpful and patient
with my multiple questions; when I finally ordered, I got what I wanted
pretty quickly. Sorry your experience was so much worse.
-- Andy McKellar
Dallas, TX
Jon Judson
"Anyone else order from them *recently*?"
I used to order exclusively from HopTech, then switched to B3 after HopTech
started charging for shipping (I know that B3 adds it into their costs, but
they ended up being cheaper than HopTech when everything was totaled).
Just on a lark, I decided to place a small order to St. Pats last month. I
received an email confirmation that my web order had been received. After
about a week of silence, I started to get a little concerned about when the
order was shipping, then I received a phone call from one of their
employees. He told me that the stainless racking cane on the order would up
the shipping costs to $17.00 -- more than half as much more than the actual
order itself. If I took the cane off, the shipping costs dropped to $6.95.
Considering that the racking cane was only about $5.75, it seemed excessive
that the shipping was more than the item, so I canceled that item. I
received the rest of my order in good shape within a week.
While I was pleased with the service, and the professionalism of their staff
for contacting me to verify that I didn't go nuts over the shipping costs, I
do wish they would revisit how they charge for shipping. As an example:
I just placed an order with B3 for the following:
1 Stainless Racking Cane
1 2000 ml Erlenmeyer Flask
1 Magnetic Stir Plate
The order, including shipping (embedded in their price) came out to $116.90.
At St. Pats, that same order comes out to $122.50 including shipping. Not
really much of a difference, but B3 being lower none-the-less.
B3 also sends out email notifications not only when the order is placed, but
also when the order is shipped. And you have the ability on their website
to see where in processing your order status is, and they give you the UPS
tracking code for tracing the order after it leaves their shop. The
drawback to B3 is that, being in California, it seems to take forever for an
order to get out to the east coast. There is generally a lag time of two
weeks from order received to shipment received.
While B3 is still my preference, I probably still will order from St. Pats
in the future, if they have something I need that B3 doesn't carry. And I
will repeat how impressed I was with St. Pats staff calling me with the high
shipping costs of my order.
No connection with either, just blah-blah-blah.
MDixon
Jon Judson <jju...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:9su6hh$fgn$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> While B3 is still my preference, I probably still will order from St. Pats
> in the future, if they have something I need that B3 doesn't carry. And I
> will repeat how impressed I was with St. Pats staff calling me with the
high
> shipping costs of my order.
I suggest you price out www.grapeandgranary.com for East Coast ordering. I
found them to be the most reasonable when I included shipping, and their
online calculator let's you know the cost of the shipping, orders over $125
get a 5% disount. B3's shipping policy is attractive, but I have always
come out better from my location from other sources. St. Pats beats and
matches some prices, but when you figure shipping, they usually are bested
to my address. Also something folks should consider is tax.
Depending upon location on the East Coast, you might try www.homebrew.com,
www.ebrew.com, or www.vintagecellar.com
Cheers,
Mike
Dan Listermann
of the racking cane. Perhaps they had to box that separately.
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
"Jon Judson" <jju...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:9su6hh$fgn$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Jim Stansell
www.thingsbeer.com. They have great prices, and I know they do a lot
of mail order business.
Just a very satisfied customer.....
JPullum127
Ken Gray
It took a month and a half to get my order.
During that time:
4 e-mails that went unanswered, countless phone calls that some were
told I would get a call back, never did. I was told 3 times the order would
ship the next day, a week later another phone call, on my dime, and it was
still not shipped.
After I got the order I questioned the shipping charges as one item
($66) was removed and this was penciled in as my shipping charges. The web
page says EXACT shipping charges only.
During my last contact with her I was told to "go yell at my wife". I
may have been strong with her, (I spent almost $500, if I feel something's
wrong, yes I may get somewhat forceful) but not once did I yell at her.
That being said, I did get a fine brewpot, and several other smaller
items that only St. Pats carries. In the future I will do without these
items.
To anyone thinking about doing business with St. Pats be careful.
Ken Gray
"M Silk" <goo...@msilk.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:1659c7b9.01111...@posting.google.com...
MDixon
Jim Stansell <stan...@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:9ef5vtg4bg2drr9ts...@4ax.com...
> If Michigan isn't too far away, check out my local store at
> www.thingsbeer.com. They have great prices, and I know they do a lot
> of mail order business.
>
> Just a very satisfied customer.....
They have a basis for the beginning of a RIMS system at the cheapest price I
have seen anywhere, or at least they used to.
Cheers,
Mike
MDixon
Ken Gray <gr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9suhc0$jpt$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
> That being said, I did get a fine brewpot, and several other smaller
> items that only St. Pats carries. In the future I will do without these
> items.
If you don't mind my asking, what were the exclusive items? Yeast and
moravian malt?
Just wondering.
Cheers,
Mike
Ken Gray
I went to St. Pats from a recommendation from this group. I went round and
round on whether or not to come forward with my grievance, but opted to
stifle it. I thought maybe it was an isolated incident, I see now it wasn't.
If there had been more threads like this, maybe I wouldn't have had to
endure the wrath of Lynne.
I put my story out now only to give more information for the next new
brewer to make a more informed decision than I was able.
Ken Gray
"MDixon" <mdixon_...@ipass.net> wrote in message
news:tv5io6e...@corp.supernews.com...
Todd Bissell
Pats, Beer, Beer, and More Beer (B3), Williams Brewing, and Northern
Brewer..., and have gone back to B3 more often than not.
The e-mails from St pats' Lynne were nice and all, but I prefer hard
data: UPS Tracking numbers, electronic invoices, etc. Aside from the
shipping department being a little on the slow side, I have had no
heartache with St Pats.
I use B3 and Williams Brewing mostly, since they are fast and
reliable, and flawless with shipping/handling/packaging -- even if I
do have to pay CA state taxes, et al.
However, I expected better from Northern Brewer. I got the box, and I
hear "stuff" rattling around. Along with a Partial Mash kit and some
other odds-and-ends, I had ordered an Orval glass goblet. The tiny
sheet of bubble-wrap around it wasn't nearly enough protection to keep
it from breaking. Of course, Murphy's Law applies here, and one of the
shards of glass ended up neatly slicing open a bag of rye (from the
Partial Mash kit), spilling 70-80% of the tiny rye flakes into the box
amongst the styrofoam peanuts. I couldn't blame the UPS guy, since the
box itself wasn't bashed in or dented -- it was simply Northern
Brewer's cheap packaging. I got a replacement for the glass goblet,
but never any response on getting another package of rye flakes.....
So, in my book, I'll try St Pats once and a while for unique items,
but generally stick to Williams Brewing and B3 for most everything
else.
Cheers,
Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA
On 14 Nov 2001 06:37:56 -0800, goo...@msilk.mailshell.com (M Silk)
wrote:
scott sallin
substituted by error. Handling of problems was usually slow. I do have an
800 numberfor them, so at least any handling of problems will be on their
dime. No, I don't mind holding... (as long as you're paying for the call)!
St Pats: 800 448-4224
Scott
Ron Morris
ordered from them twice--and twice I had shipping problems. When I
called to find out why the most recent order was taking so long to
ship, the guy said "we are overwhelmed." I canceled that order and
sent them an e-mail explaining that I would probably never order from
them again (I'm sure they could care less). I say _probably_ because
they have apparently cornered the market on at least two strains of
Wyeast and Moravian grain. I really wanted to try that Budvar yeast,
too.
Ron
"Ken Gray" <gr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<9suhc0$jpt$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>...
Dave Howell
wrote:
> I really wanted to try that Budvar yeast,
>too.
I did... the beer it made is really earthy-yeasty flavored. The aroma
drowned out the aroma hops by a long way. The flavor is not a clean
lager flavor, and it battled the ~40 IBU of hops for predominant
flavor. When I need the bottles again, I'll probably dump the beer.
I dumped the stuff still in the keg a while ago.
This may have been due to the 65-70 deg F I fermented it at (as
opposed to 54 deg F): summers in Phoenix get hot, and my electric
bill goes up up up. YMMV.
I much prefer the H-strains available from St. Pats.
Send a letter to White Labs, maybe they'll carry the strains too if
they sense enough interest.
Dave Howell
Mesa, Az
Lynne O'Connor
I view every sale as a contract of mutual honesty and respect. I do
not sell to those who do not share this view.
The second or third sentence of my orginal catalog nearly 11 years ago
was "we treat people with honesty and respect, AND WE EXPECT THE SAME
IN RETURN." This has been the cornerstone of this business. There
will be those who will now say, 'service must be falling and business
will be next' and 'with that kind of arrogance, she will surely
suffer.' Those sages have pontificated on the demise of st pats for
10 years.
We have never had a downturn, even when we closed a store. We are now
undergoing the greatest growth since back in 95 when I opened a second
shop. October was beyond anything I could have ever imagined, more
than the entire first two years, 91-92, of this business. This in
spite of less advertising than in many years. I have no web ads, never
have. The only brewspaper ad I have had in years is Celebrator. I
dropped the frequency of my Zymurgy ads earlier this year.
I have absolute confidence that quality people can figure this out.
And there will be others who are nothing less than elitest.
Ken Gray was vulgar and profane. He brought an employee Ashley to
tears. He was then abusive to me. I have sent Ken Gray an email
asking him to return all the merchandise. I will refund his money
including freight both ways.
Marshall Silk placed an order at the end of August with the
requirement that it had to be delivered around Sept 12. I left a
detailed message at the number he left stating I could not meet the
deadline (no pots in stock) and therefore the order was cancelled. I
did not hear from him for 6 weeks. Today I have cancelled his order
again.
Mike D'Brewer did not receive a "brass" drip tray in place of chrome.
After getting his okay, I upgraded him at no additional cost to a
"gold-plated" drip tray. This tray is made exclusively for St. pats
in Germany. He ordered 6" shanks, but was advised that 4" would work
in his fridge. They did. This saved him $8. Mike D'Brewer will not be
suffering through St.Pats service in the future.
MDixon has a long history of deceitfully trashing St.Pats. He has
never been and will not be a st pats customer.
But don't get the wrong impression. I can't tell you how much I enjoy
this business. I have not taken a day off since August. I work many
nights till midnight. Not a few, most. I do it because I enjoy it.
I've never been more excited. Just in the past two days I got conical
fermenters, tap-a-draft on the way, 3-gallon ball locks back in, new
styles of the canelli tap handles, 2500 reconditioned 5 gallon kegs
on the way, more 10 gallon kegs, and a new type of homebrew keg that
I've been looking for 5 years (top secret), a s/s hopback that will be
out in a month, new yeast enzyme for agave beers, and I'm off to
Portugal and Italy over thanksgiving to look at even more stuff. And
all the Xmas beers are now here or nearly so.
Late at night I turn off the lights, flip on the neons,turn up the
music, and have a couple of beers at my own private bar. I'm gonna
knock off early now and get into Anchor Christmas and Fullers Vintage
'99, 00', and 01 and maybe a little port to boot. But don't worry, my
former doctor is a homebrewer (was Bert Grants doctor btw) and my
current doctor is as well so I don't have to lie about my alcohol
consumption.
cheers and I do appreciate the nice comments
Lynne O'Connor
St. Pats
CSS
good results.
Clark
"M Silk" <goo...@msilk.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:1659c7b9.01111...@posting.google.com...
bo...@sbcglobal.net
Your setup is awesome... I have ordered stuff from you on and off for
the past three years. You need to concentrate on BUSINESS and leave all
the BS behind. Do not get emotionial... there will always be someone to
spin you up. For God's sake and yours lighten up on M. Dixon....he's
really a good guy! Keep all that good Czech stuff coming! We all need to
come down to TX and have a beer with you!!!
We all love you Lynne!!!
Brewer Bob
San Jose
Aaron Sky
Lynne,
If it makes you feel better, I will check your page out after this post,
and maybe get something (seems I always need some more toys)...
I would have to say that any business that does 90% of it's sales through
the mail would have occasional delays in shipments. What would you expect,
perfection?
I have worked for a few very large, successful companies that had to ship
finished goods. And none of them could make the shipping deadlines 100% of
the time.
You have one bad order, and it's time to start to slander a mom and pop
business? I don't think that's very nice at all.
I think if you go back and check your brewing records, you will see that
you too make mistakes. Maybe next time you make a mistake, you should think
about St. Pats...
When you find perfection -in anything-, please let me know, I want some of
what ever it is!
A
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.01111...@posting.google.com...
Brian L
continue to do so since I enjoy thier products very much.
Brian
goo...@msilk.mailshell.com (M Silk) wrote in message news:<1659c7b9.01111...@posting.google.com>...
MDixon
> never been and will not be a st pats customer.
You are correct that I have never ordered from you, mainly due to shipping
costs, which are beyond St. Pats control, not pricing of items.
You are incorrect that I have a long history of trashing St. Pats. That
simply cannot be proven (please try), and is not true. I made an incorrect
inference from something I read and corrected my mistake. I sent you
personal e-mails every single time I posted, and a formal apology both on
this newsgroup and personally to your e-mail.
I guess you are also correct that I will not be a St. Pats customer, not
because I wouldn't do business with you, but because it sounds as if you
don't desire to do business with me.
Cheers,
Mike
Jon Judson
"I would have to say that any business that does 90% of it's sales through
the mail would have occasional delays in shipments."
This is an understatement right now out east, to say the least. My Post
Office was shut down three times in October and November due to anthrax.
One of our carriers came down with the skin version. The Postal union is
trying to get the building shut down for an indeterminate amount of time.
It's so bad that I'm getting phone calls from creditors because our checks
are arriving late to pay the bills. My son's birthday present from my dad
in Michigan is now a week late. Dave Wills at Freshops sent me an order
last week, and even he knows the situation out here. He informed me right
up front that my order will probably be late -- and it is.
You've no idea what we go through when we get our mail. The kids are not
allowed to touch it. We sort it outside, immediately tossing anything we
don't recognize or any junk mail (even junk mail I like). After sorting the
mail, we wash with anti-bacterial soap.
Living under a new reality...
Go Special Forces!
MDixon
> Aaron Sky wrote:
>
> "I would have to say that any business that does 90% of it's sales through
> the mail would have occasional delays in shipments."
>
> This is an understatement right now out east, to say the least. My Post
> Office was shut down three times in October and November due to anthrax.
> One of our carriers came down with the skin version. The Postal union is
> trying to get the building shut down for an indeterminate amount of time.
> It's so bad that I'm getting phone calls from creditors because our checks
> are arriving late to pay the bills. My son's birthday present from my dad
> in Michigan is now a week late. Dave Wills at Freshops sent me an order
> last week, and even he knows the situation out here. He informed me right
> up front that my order will probably be late -- and it is.
Good points about the mail.
Does the same apply to UPS and FedEx? I have not noticed a delay around
here with the two carriers.
Cheers,
Mike
Jon Judson
"Does the same apply to UPS and FedEx? I have not noticed a delay around
here with the two carriers."
Actually -- an strangely -- UPS seems to be faster now than ever. My last
shipment from B3 came in less than a week. Maybe now that they have Santa's
elves on staff, they can move things a little more quickly.
Haven't FedEx'd anything in a while.
Mike D' Brewer
> After getting his okay, I upgraded him at no additional cost to a
> "gold-plated" drip tray. This tray is made exclusively for St. pats
> in Germany. He ordered 6" shanks, but was advised that 4" would work
> in his fridge. They did. This saved him $8. Mike D'Brewer will not be
> suffering through St.Pats service in the future.
>
Interesting how you conveniently side-stepped the overwhelming issue of lack
of response by you and your people. Hide your head in the sand if you wish,
but you've got a problem, lady.
And BTW, I wasn't advised that 4" would work, I was advised that you were
out of stock - two weeks after the order was placed - and to give them a
try. Yep, they worked, but not due to any "advice" on your part.
You are correct, I will not be suffering through St. Pats "service" in the
future. I prefer actual service, not "it's service 'cause I said so".
Mike
Kevin Brown
charged my credit card right away but 4 months later I still have NOTHING
from them. I called after the first month passed and asked about my
order, 55 lbs. Czech malt - 3 packs yeast. The malt was coming by 3rd
class mail ( I live in the Virgin Islands) and the yeast was suppose to
come priority mail. I was told by Lynn that the malt had been back ordered
and they just received it. They would be shipping it out "that week". I
asked why I hadn't gotten the yeast and she said "I guess they are waiting
to ship it all at once".
So I wait another month as it usually takes 3 weeks for a bag of grain to
get here via surface mail. Still nothing by the beginning of Oct. Call
again (of course these are all on my dime) This time they can't even find
my order. They finally find it in the "international orders" because it is
going by US Postal and not UPS. They say it was shipped sometime last
week. I ask for a date so I can start tracking the timeline. I'm told it
was shipped on Oct. 11th. So now it is Nov. 15th and I still don't have
anything, not even yeast. (takes about 3-7 days for priority mail to reach
here) They have had my $86.45 for 4 months and I don't have a thing. I
think one of them could have rowed a boat here with it by now! I guess
I'll call again and ask for a refund as they never seem that interested in
straighting out this matter. Doubt I'll ever order from there again unless
they can do something to correct the matter.
Still grainless in the V.I.
Kevin
In article <8iFI7.20885$gQ1.8...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>, "scott
MDixon
> Order nearly $300 worth of boiling pots.
Since it appears you still need pots, I suggest (not knowing where you live,
or what size pot/kettle you desire).
www.homebrew.com (look at items BKH-001, and BKH-005) NC
www.homebrewheaven.com (click on brewpots) WA
http://www.kegs.com/buildyourown.html OH
http://www.morebeer.com/ (click on Kettles) CA
http://www.nbrewer.com/kettles-burners.html MN
www.grapeandgranary.com (click Beer - Equipement - then several choices) OH
There are many others, depending upon your location.
Cheers,
Mike
MDixon
Kevin Brown <kbr...@nospam.uvi.edu> wrote in message
news:kbrown-1511...@dhcp-tl59.uvi.edu...
> My experience: poor! Still waiting for a grain order placed in July. They
> charged my credit card right away but 4 months later I still have NOTHING
> from them. I called after the first month passed and asked about my
> order, 55 lbs. Czech malt - 3 packs yeast. The malt was coming by 3rd
> class mail ( I live in the Virgin Islands) and the yeast was suppose to
> come priority mail. I was told by Lynn that the malt had been back ordered
> and they just received it. They would be shipping it out "that week". I
> asked why I hadn't gotten the yeast and she said "I guess they are waiting
> to ship it all at once".
>
> So I wait another month as it usually takes 3 weeks for a bag of grain to
> get here via surface mail. Still nothing by the beginning of Oct. Call
> again (of course these are all on my dime) This time they can't even find
> my order. They finally find it in the "international orders" because it is
> going by US Postal and not UPS. They say it was shipped sometime last
> week. I ask for a date so I can start tracking the timeline. I'm told it
> was shipped on Oct. 11th. So now it is Nov. 15th and I still don't have
> anything, not even yeast. (takes about 3-7 days for priority mail to reach
> here) They have had my $86.45 for 4 months and I don't have a thing. I
> think one of them could have rowed a boat here with it by now! I guess
> I'll call again and ask for a refund as they never seem that interested in
> straighting out this matter. Doubt I'll ever order from there again unless
> they can do something to correct the matter.
>
> Still grainless in the V.I.
Much as this will surprise folks, I am going to say you have gotten caught
up in the ramifications of the Sept. 11 attacks, and the fault is not
entirely on St Pats (past the backorder delay July to Oct?).
Also, I think SP will refund your money if the grain never shows.
How long to wait? I don't know. I do know our company lease check was
mailed from NY to NC on the 1st of the month, and it arrived today (12
"mail" days). Usually that takes 2 days at most.
The real question is what have you been doing for grain in the meantime?
Cheers,
Mike
Rodney Rein
hydrometer was packaged incorrectly and was broken in
shipment...Emailed Lynne and she immediately sent a replacment and
said she would pass it on the folks in shipping on how to not package
a hydrometer. The kit had fresh and tasty ingredients and is
currently finishing up in secondary...I will order again from St.
Pats. I would like order status/ups tracking, however......Lynne?
Cheers!
Rodney
buckeye brewer
responce.
I will not be ordering from a bitchy woman, so I guess I am in the never
have, never will be a St Pats customer. No problem I support my local
shops, they give great service and advice, never need to return anything
always get the right stuff the first time.
BuckeyeBrewer
Dan Kelley
in a reasonable period of time. I have recently placed a third order and
expect the same results.
However, as someone who almost certainly WILL be ordering from St.Pats
again, I can say that a function to check order status would be a great
addition to your website, Lynne.
Dan Kelley
M Silk
business entity. I was in Japan when the order was to initially come
in. After being stuck there for an extra 5 days due to the attack I
returned to a country totally different than the one I left a few days
earlier. It is possible that I missed Lynnes message on my machine
being somewhat jet lagged and unaccustomed to the full terrorist
treatment on tap in the airport on the way home. My initial post
yesterday was a response to frustration at not feeling like I was in
the loop as to what was occurring with my order. When the wrong
materials finally came on the eve of my departure to Paris my
frustration came to the surface. I did not expect the total
cancellation of the order. The fact that this thread was the most
posted to on the day it was started would logically seem to be a
learning moment to those inclined to listen beneath the static. Being
out of the country again and unable to call SP directly is a
disadvantage to me. If you read my initial post there was no
disrespect to anyone conveyed.
Lynne, I would like to complete the transaction I started over 2
months ago.
51.01111504...@posting.google.com>...
JeffMo
Lynne O'Connor
LOOK-AT-ME? I think my sons would call him a pretty boy. Not sure,
I'll ask when I get home.
anyway, gotta love this Kevin Brown. He orders in July when we are
out of Moravian grain. I told him we were out and he said don't ship
the order because I will be "island hopping". He contacts me in
September and his complete order was shipped the week after Sept 11
via US Postal because he's in the Virgin Islands (where "island
hoppers" hop).
So, Kevin, there was this little thing on Sept 11 and this other
little thing called ANTHRAX. I sent an order to a regular in customer
in Denmark the same day I sent yours. He received his order TODAY--10
weeks late and his, unlike yours, was sent PRIORITY MAIL. This
customer is oriented in all spheres and understands this little thing
on Sept 11 and this other little thing ANTHRAX. Like yours, I had
placed two traces on the Denmark order and have not received a
response from US Postal. Those cowards;-)
Kevin Brown, please call the Red Cross and the Sept 11 Fund because
you are certainly entitled to some relief due to your distress. In
fact I think all self-absorbed "island hoppers" are due relief.
While you're at it, ask the Red Cross to put a newspaper or radio or
TV in your relief package.
Today, the gentleman in Denmark thanked me for his 10 week late order.
Here's a little message for all the Kevin Brown "island hoppers". Hop
over to a little island called Manhattan. Tell them about your postal
woes.
Lynne O'Connor
St. Pats of Texas
kbr...@nospam.uvi.edu (Kevin Brown) wrote in message news:<kbrown-1511...@dhcp-tl59.uvi.edu>...
Spitdriver
I'm sure those folks in Manhattan would appreciate your referance to these
'little things". I know that while I sit over here in a "little" desert
defending your right to be the way you want to be, I find it dispiriting.
My only comfort.. I've had my anthrax shots!
> So, Kevin, there was this little thing on Sept 11 and this other
> little thing called ANTHRAX.
Add me to your never sell to list.
Spitdriver
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.01111...@posting.google.com...
Mike Uchima
Bottom line... to succeed in business (or participate in Usenet
newsgroups, for that matter...), you've got to have a thick skin, and
know how to defend yourself. While I do find it infinitely amusing that
Mike Dixon (who Lynne also took a jab at in her last post) actually made
the same point with more tact, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
I, for one, won't hesitate to order from St Pats again, if they have
something I need.
And, lest anyone get the impression from this thread that Lynne is "Ms
Superbitch"... I got to talk to her a bit at the last two AHA
conferences, and she's actually quite nice. Lynne and her husband Don
(who gave one of the talks at this year's conference) are both avid
beer/homebrewing enthusiasts.
Now, as cliche as it may be, let's all take Charlie P's advice, and go
RDWHAHB...
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
DifferentPiper
>
>Cheers!
>
>Rodney
>
I've seen this on a few posts, and it seems like a good idea. The only online
homebrew company I've seen this offered by is Northern Brewer. Even if there's
not a link to UPS or FedEx, at least a order status on the shop website would
be helpful.
Scott
MDixon
Mike Uchima <uch...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3BF49C...@pobox.com...
> While I do find it infinitely amusing that
> Mike Dixon (who Lynne also took a jab at in her last post) actually made
> the same point with more tact, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Hey, I must have missed it, I didn't see anywhere in the 800 number thread
that Lynne even mentioned my sorry butt, or were you referring to the thread
before Scott Sallin changed the header?
Cheers,
Mike
MDixon
DifferentPiper <differe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011116013644...@mb-fy.aol.com...
> I've seen this on a few posts, and it seems like a good idea. The only
online
> homebrew company I've seen this offered by is Northern Brewer. Even if
there's
> not a link to UPS or FedEx, at least a order status on the shop website
would
> be helpful.
FWIW, www.grapeandgranary.com has it, and ProMash does one hell of a job of
keeping you informed via e-mail. Oh, they aren't a homebrew shop, but Sabco
has it as well. Many suppliers could benefit from supplying that
information. It let's you know the order has left the dock and is somewhere
in transit.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike Uchima
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
Kevin Brown
newsreader.
In article <8c041a20.01111...@posting.google.com>,
stp...@bga.com (Lynne O'Connor) wrote:
> What's up with this guy changing the thread name?
Cheese 'n bread woman! All I did was hit the "follow up to newsgroup" menu
in my newsreader.
> anyway, gotta love this Kevin Brown. He orders in July when we are
> out of Moravian grain. I told him we were out and he said don't ship
> the order because I will be "island hopping".
Girl you sure have a strange memory. First off I haven't been to another
Island or done any "island hopping" in the past 4 months. I did travel to
the states Sept 18.(are you now calling that the big island?) When I
ordered at the end of July you were kind enough to inform me of the of the
high shipping rate to my area. It seems it is a little more pricey from
Texas than when I get my grain from Florida. So I back off my order from 2
bags to one. Fine, but NO ONE mentions a thing about anything on back
order. After one month nothing shows up so I call. Now I'm told there is a
back order. O.K. I say fine just wanted to know what was going on. I need
to check if stuff has been sent because the P.O. here is not always on the
ball.
He contacts me in
> September and his complete order was shipped the week after Sept 11
> via US Postal because he's in the Virgin Islands (where "island
> hoppers" hop).
> So, Kevin, there was this little thing on Sept 11 and this other
> little thing called ANTHRAX.
>I sent an order to a regular in customer
> in Denmark the same day I sent yours. He received his order TODAY--10
> weeks late and his, unlike yours, was sent PRIORITY MAIL. This
> customer is oriented in all spheres and understands this little thing
> on Sept 11 and this other little thing ANTHRAX. Like yours, I had
> placed two traces on the Denmark order and have not received a
> response from US Postal. Those cowards;-)
That's new news. When I called at the beginning of Oct. I was told by a
gentleman that my order was shipped Oct. 11. He was the most helpful
person I had talked to yet. So if it was really the week after Sept. 11
then it has been 10 weeks since my order was shipped. Man, if I lived in
Denmark, instead of on an Island once owned by Denmark, I have my grain
now. :)
It just seems odd that other stuff I have ordered from the states has been
getting here in a normal amount of time. I still don't know if the yeast
was shipped seperate via priority mail or is in with the grain. All I'm
asking is for someone to be straight forward with me. If they can explain
what is going on and give straight up answers then there is no problem. I
mean once my card is charged then I presume the goods have been sent. If
my card has not been charged then I know I'll the deal is not done.
> Kevin Brown, please call the Red Cross and the Sept 11 Fund because
> you are certainly entitled to some relief due to your distress. In
> fact I think all self-absorbed "island hoppers" are due relief.
> While you're at it, ask the Red Cross to put a newspaper or radio or
> TV in your relief package.
Yea, we still live in huts here and don't even have newspapers, radios or
T.V.s Sorry Lynn but you have not distressed me at all. You seem to be the
one "bent outa shape". I've been through 11 hurricanes and have lived many
months without electricity. It will take a little more than you to stress
out me.
> Today, the gentleman in Denmark thanked me for his 10 week late order.
I'm sure I'll be "thankful" when my order shows up too.
Mark Kellums
customer service.
Mark
"MDixon" <mdixon_...@ipass.net> wrote in message
news:tva2ccq...@corp.supernews.com...
Kevin Brown
<mdixon_...@ipass.net> wrote:
>
> Much as this will surprise folks, I am going to say you have gotten caught
> up in the ramifications of the Sept. 11 attacks, and the fault is not
> entirely on St Pats (past the backorder delay July to Oct?).
>
> Also, I think SP will refund your money if the grain never shows.
>
> How long to wait? I don't know. I do know our company lease check was
> mailed from NY to NC on the 1st of the month, and it arrived today (12
> "mail" days). Usually that takes 2 days at most.
>
> The real question is what have you been doing for grain in the meantime?
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
In the meantime I got a friend in Florida to ship me enough grain to do a
single 10 gallon batch. (By the way that got here in a week via priority
mail) I must say I'm use to slow mail service, especially surface mail. My
biggest complaint is I have gotten several different shipping dates from
the people of St. Pats. I just really wanted to know the date it was
actually shipped.
It looks like my friends that are visiting from the Czech Republic for the
holidays will be drinking ale instead of a lager made with Czech malt. Hey
at least they will get some homebrew instead of the BudMillerCoors ting.
Pivo for everyone,
Kevin
MDixon
> In the meantime I got a friend in Florida to ship me enough grain to do a
> single 10 gallon batch. (By the way that got here in a week via priority
> mail) I must say I'm use to slow mail service, especially surface mail.
How much does a sack of grain being shipped priority mail run, even from FL?
I suggest you talk to Bryan or Claude at www.northcountrymalt.com They might
find a way to get grain to you a little cheaper, but Upstate NY is a long
way from the VI. Of course no one has the Moravian malt but SP.
Cheers,
Mike
Brian Lundeen
to every story. However, this is just another stupid, classless response to
a real problem, something I find very typical in your rare forays into this
forum. It seems the only times we here from you are when somebody is
complaining about the problems they have with your company.
Obviously, you must have a lot of satisfied customers to be as big as you
are. If every customer went through these hassles, you wouldn't even be in
business. But it is also very apparent from the number of similar
experiences being related here that you do have some lapses, and your main
concern should be to correcting these problems when they happen, not coming
into small forums like this to take personal shots at people (what's with
the "pretty boy" and "island hopper" cracks, are they in any way pertinent
to the discussion at hand?) Would you like it if these people, in addition
to their complaints about your company, also started spewing real or
imagined personality traits about you?
It sounds like comunication is the area where you need to improve the most.
People will understand when problems arise for whatever reason, but you've
got to keep them in the loop, not in the dark. People get terribly
frustrated when they don't know what is happening. Return calls or emails,
be honest, and give realistic estimates of when the problem will be
resolved. If your employees can't do those things, then your customers have
every right to come into public forums and share their experiences.
Brian
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.01111...@posting.google.com...
A. Leach
with the ship dates. I have followed this thread and saw others like it on
the HBD message board and the Homebrew Digest. Once or twice could be
isolated incidences but the shipping problems and customer service issues
seem to come up time and again. Instead of criticizing her customers Lynne
needs to work on the issues that brings up threads like this one.
A. Leach
"Mark Kellums" <inf...@springnet1.com> wrote in message
news:f2aJ7.167261$Lg.81...@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com...
Prof. Richard E. Hawkins
man-hating feminist"
or a recipe to net.pets.
Any of these sound better than another round f St Pats' defenders &
haters . . .
hawk
--
What part of "non-negotiable" didn't you understand? /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
doc...@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \
Prof. Richard E. Hawkins
Prof. Richard E. Hawkins
MDixon <mdixon_...@ipass.net> wrote:
>FWIW, www.grapeandgranary.com has it,
yeah, but they never gave me a chance to use it. I ordered in the
evening, and somehow they got it here by regular UPS on the second day
. . . though it took me a moment to figure out why the yeast was sealed
in a bag half-full of water . . .
Kevin Brown
only about 14 bucks for a 12 lbs. package. I ordered another 50 lb. bag
from the store I deal with in Florida along with some hops, yeast and a
couple other items. Again the order is split between priority mail and
surface. I'll see if that mailing takes longer than normal as that is
where usually order from and I know the timeline for their deliveries. But
hey, at least I get to brew this weekend. Probably going to brew my first
CACA. I've done a couple CAPs using Jeff Renner's proceedure and they
turned out great. Thanks for the info www.northcountrymalt.com. I'll check
it out. Maybe I should by a pallet and have it shipped. Storage would be
the only problem. I only go through about 150 of base malt a year so I
don't thik I could use it fast enough.
Brew on,
Kevin
In article <tvacobn...@corp.supernews.com>, "MDixon"
Ron
Ron
Mike Uchima
live from the shipper. If you live close by, you may even get your
package overnight!
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
MDixon
Prof. Richard E. Hawkins <ha...@fac13.ds.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:9t3qh5$1v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
> or we could go to the .sf newsgroups, and shout "heinlien is a
> man-hating feminist"
>
> or a recipe to net.pets.
>
> Any of these sound better than another round f St Pats' defenders &
> haters . . .
Careful, she has one of those too, that is how I got into the doghouse in
the first place ;)
Better find something more benign, we could start a racking cane war...
!!!!!!!! FermTech autosiphon rules !!!!!!!
Cheers,
Mike
JeffMo
>What's up with this guy changing the thread name? Can you spell
>LOOK-AT-ME?
See below. He changed the thread name because he was providing an 800
number. He also included the "was" indicator, which is standard
practice on Usenet.
I suggest you lurk awhile longer if you are unfamiliar with standard
operating procedures. (If you don't know, "lurk" means to read and be
quiet, instead of committing this kind of faux pas.) It would be more
productive and nicer than simply coming in and throwing around names
intended to be derogatory along with your snide implications.
JeffMo
JeffMo
<snip>
>It sounds like comunication is the area where you need to improve the most.
>People will understand when problems arise for whatever reason, but you've
>got to keep them in the loop, not in the dark. People get terribly
>frustrated when they don't know what is happening. Return calls or emails,
>be honest, and give realistic estimates of when the problem will be
>resolved. If your employees can't do those things, then your customers have
>every right to come into public forums and share their experiences.
And she has the right to come in and share her experiences, as well.
And we all have the right to wonder why she finds it smarter to berate
those who share their honest opinions instead of attempting to fix the
communication problems mentioned.
Ain't life grand?
BTW, Brian, you're right on the money. Keeping customers in the loop
when unforeseen events occur is simple business savvy. It's called
"customer service" for a reason.
JeffMo
"You're all wanking sissies if you even think about using a grain mill,
teeth, or ball-peen hammer. A real brewer uses 17 vestal virgins
stomping on the grain in a large wooden vat. And yeast is for losers.
True brewers just dip one end of their dog into the wort to get things
going." -- Drew Avis
scott sallin
"JeffMo" <jef...@dipstick.cfw.com> wrote in message
news:3bf5a9ea....@64.154.60.165...
> stp...@bga.com (Lynne O'Connor) wrote:
>
> >What's up with this guy changing the thread name? Can you spell
> >LOOK-AT-ME?
>
> See below. He changed the thread name because he was providing an 800
> number. He also included the "was" indicator, which is standard
> practice on Usenet.
Thanks JeffMo. I didn't think I needed to justify my actions to her as I
was trying to provide a service to her customers (perhaps more than many can
say of her actions). I don't see how this reflects anything upon me...
> I suggest you lurk awhile longer if you are unfamiliar with standard
> operating procedures. (If you don't know, "lurk" means to read and be
> quiet, instead of committing this kind of faux pas.) It would be more
> productive and nicer than simply coming in and throwing around names
> intended to be derogatory along with your snide implications.
As others have stated, she finds it easier to come and stone those who
freely voice their negative experiences with her company's service than to
actually do something about the problem. It's good to hear that her
business is doing so well. Imagine how much better it could be if she was
willing to provide some common courtesy when dealing with people, especially
when circumstances don't work out the way that they ( the customers) would
have hoped.
Too bad, because she does carry some exclusive products...
Scott
MDixon
"Ron" <chile...@yahoo.xyz.com> wrote in message
news:nsravtctjq0chbvam...@4ax.com...
> The customer is always right.
I'm not sure that is so. The customer should be treated with respect, and
items should be delivered quickly.
If I am plunking down my money anywhere, I expect:
1) To be treated like my money means something to that company
2) To be given a fair price
3) To have my items shipped within 3 business days, or to receive an e-mail
or phone call detailing the reasons for the shipping delay.
4) To have the ability to track the item, either by calling the company, or
by having a tracking number provided
5) The order to arrive intact, correct, and packed carefully
What does a business owner get in return? My money, with thanks, and my
repeat business, over, and over, and over...
I have had my share of problems.
RCB Equipment www.rcbequip.com delayed and order to me, I called, they
apologized, and sent it to me free of charge. I bet I've ordered from them
5 times since.
Foxx Equipment www.foxxequipment.com sent me an incorrect gauge. They told
me to keep it, and sent me a replacement.
North Country Malt www.northcountrymalt.com shiped me two pallets of grain,
and one on the bottom was shredded by the lift driver at the hub. They sent
a replacement. It was lost by FedEx. They sent me another replacement.
They worked their butts off getting the order to me, it had been delayed in
NY City at the ports. They called me every day to update. I plan to order
from them again, even bigger, in April.
Vintage Cellar www.vintagecellar.com didn't have the grain I wanted in
stock, they ordered it, and price matched the lowest price I could find on
the web when I picked it up since they were out of stock. I never met him,
but I miss Kenny.
There have been many others...
The customer is not always right, but customer service is everything.
Cheers,
Mike
Dan Listermann
congenitally honest, responsible and interesting people. We have been in
the retail trade for six years and have had only six checks bounce. I am
told that this is extremely good for retail.
I will get these panicked calls from customers telling me that I forgot to
charge them for a packet of yeast, a stopper or something else very minor.
They want to charge it to pay for it. I tell them not to worry about it,
but there is a good chance they will tell me about it the next time they are
in the store.
I have dealt with homebrew trade coming on 11 years now and they seem to be
the same kind of people that homebrewers are. We have had to write off very
little over the years due to bad debts. I can't recall doing that at all
for the past six or so years.
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
"MDixon" <mpdixon...@ipass.net> wrote in message
news:1UsJ7.200$jX1....@newshog.newsread.com...
Mike D' Brewer
www.morebeer.com on a couple of occasions. It is fixed or replaced
immediately. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect responsivness.
When I wrote my initial reply, it was not a slam-a-gram. The last sentence
spoke of "OK service, kinda slow, quicker notification", etc..... clearly
offering suggestions to a business that really has the opportunity to be a
top flight company. Lynn's response was just incredible.
If it had been a reply along the lines of, "We had a staff meeting, and I
shared your concerns. While we feel we have gone the extra mile with some
of the more "challenging" customers, we take your comments seriously, we DID
find some holes in our order fulfillment process (which we're fixing!) and
will look into ways to improve the perception of our service quality", I
guarantee you, I'd be a customer for life!
Her mean-sprited, "take no prisoners" approach was just as effective in
ensuring I will never again be a customer.
Mike
MDixon <mpdixon...@ipass.net> wrote in message
news:1UsJ7.200$jX1....@newshog.newsread.com...
>
DAsh
responded to all the positive critiques here, but only to one which she
perceived to be negative. Is there such a thing as a software application
which she may be running which cruises pertinent news groups for negative
posts that only concern her? <it's a joke! I know it doesn't exist, but it
seems that way, doesn't it?>
--
--DAsh
(to reply via e-mail, replace the obvious with 7119)
"Mike D' Brewer" <sa...@sbabootcamp.com> wrote in message
news:f8xJ7.1793$W6.3...@news1.oakland1.sfba.home.com...
Michael Sheldon
> which she may be running which cruises pertinent news groups for negative
> posts that only concern her?<<
Well, actually, such things have been done before, but generally only by
systems gurus who run their own newsservers.
My guess is that she doesn't read the newsgroup at all, but someone told her
about the comments. She came in, did a hit-and-run. Very unfortunate, and
unbelievably badly handled.
--
Michael J. Sheldon
http://www.desertraven.com/
Make a fast friend, adopt a greyhound
"DAsh" <DAshle...@home.com> wrote in message
news:fJDJ7.41526$XJ4.23...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com...
Prof. Richard E. Hawkins
Dan Listermann <d...@listermann.com> wrote:
>One of the joys of the homebrew trade is that the hobby tends to attract
>congenitally honest, responsible and interesting people. We have been in
>the retail trade for six years and have had only six checks bounce. I am
>told that this is extremely good for retail.
I can top that :) In five years of practicing law, I recieved a grand
total of three bad checks. The first was from a woman who probably
could have been certified. The other two were for a consultation and a
summary divorce from the same woman on the same visit. Her husband
called to tell me and showed up with cash before I found out from the
bank. The fight they had over that actually got them talking and they
cancelled the divorce! (yes, about half of divorces could be avoided if
judges and/or attorneys were allowed to lock the parties in a room and
gradually raise the heat until they start bickering . . .)
Prof. Richard E. Hawkins
Michael Sheldon <home...@desertraven.com> wrote:
>>>Is there such a thing as a software application
>> which she may be running which cruises pertinent news groups for negative
>> posts that only concern her?<<
>Well, actually, such things have been done before, but generally only by
>systems gurus who run their own newsservers.
Is it safe to type "KIBO" again yet? :)
Also, in 1984 I proposed a program that would read the newsspool, find
posts from rlr@att<mumble>, and mark them read (at the time, the spool
for all groups happened in a single directory [all 30 or so groups]). I
was asked for the program by a number of people. When I returned 10
years later, rn had a killfile, the logical progression. Is there a
direct descent? I dunno. :)
Kelvin Kundert
to me that if I need a lawyer, I should get one who is no longer
practicing & is indeed now an actual lawyer. :-)
Kelvin
ha...@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote:
>In article <tvd5dif...@corp.supernews.com>,
>Dan Listermann <d...@listermann.com> wrote:
>>One of the joys of the homebrew trade is that the hobby tends to attract
>>congenitally honest, responsible and interesting people. We have been in
>>the retail trade for six years and have had only six checks bounce. I am
>>told that this is extremely good for retail.
>
>I can top that :) In five years of practicing law, I recieved a grand
>total of three bad checks. The first was from a woman who probably
>could have been certified. The other two were for a consultation and a
>summary divorce from the same woman on the same visit. Her husband
>called to tell me and showed up with cash before I found out from the
>bank. The fight they had over that actually got them talking and they
>cancelled the divorce! (yes, about half of divorces could be avoided if
>judges and/or attorneys were allowed to lock the parties in a room and
>gradually raise the heat until they start bickering . . .)
>
>hawk,
who has run out of neat little sayings at the end of his signature?
Prof. Richard E. Hawkins
Kelvin Kundert <kelvin.kundert@despam_newviewland.com> wrote:
>So why is it that lawyers are continually "practicing" law? It seems
>to me that if I need a lawyer, I should get one who is no longer
>practicing & is indeed now an actual lawyer. :-)
Then I'm your man. Once I had it down, I stopped :)
hawk, now a recovering lawyer for more than seven years . . .
Dan Listermann
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
"Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" <ha...@fac13.ds.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:9tc022$i...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
Michael Sheldon
...
> Is it safe to type "KIBO" again yet? :)
Probably not :)