I just read Phil's thread for alternatives to using hops. I knew aboout the shortage, but really had no idea the whole US industry was going this sour. Just wondering if there was anywhere else in the world that sells bulk hops and if shipping costs would make ordering infeasible for the average homebrewer...
I will definitely plant as many rhizomes as possible next spring.
Buck wrote: > I just read Phil's thread for alternatives to using hops. I knew aboout > the shortage, but really had no idea the whole US industry was going > this sour. Just wondering if there was anywhere else in the world that > sells bulk hops and if shipping costs would make ordering infeasible for > the average homebrewer...
Actually, IIRC, I've both read and been advised that hops imported to the U.S. are actually going to be in more critical supply than U.S. grown varieties, which is part of the reason why U.S. grown hops are going to increase in price. ... but if you find a good source, shipping doesn't kill you, and there are no paperwork entanglements when trying to import, please be sure to let us know.
> I will definitely plant as many rhizomes as possible next spring.
I'm planning to plant some additions next year, as well. A few words of advice in case you are new at growing; start preparing your bed NOW rather than waiting until just before planting, and also start giving some thought to what sort of a support structure you are going to build. If you are not already a member of my Grow-Hops group, I think you will find it very useful: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Grow-Hops/
>> I just read Phil's thread for alternatives to using hops. I knew aboout >> the shortage, but really had no idea the whole US industry was going >> this sour. Just wondering if there was anywhere else in the world that >> sells bulk hops and if shipping costs would make ordering infeasible for >> the average homebrewer...
>Actually, IIRC, I've both read and been advised that hops imported to >the U.S. are actually going to be in more critical supply than U.S. >grown varieties, which is part of the reason why U.S. grown hops are >going to increase in price. ... but if you find a good source, shipping >doesn't kill you, and there are no paperwork entanglements when trying >to import, please be sure to let us know.
>> I will definitely plant as many rhizomes as possible next spring.
>I'm planning to plant some additions next year, as well. A few words of >advice in case you are new at growing; start preparing your bed NOW >rather than waiting until just before planting, and also start giving >some thought to what sort of a support structure you are going to build. > If you are not already a member of my Grow-Hops group, I think you >will find it very useful: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Grow-Hops/
the phelper wrote: > So if I were to start growing hops...
> How much would I have to grow to brew a batch a week, a batch a month, > etc?
> I'm just thinking that I don't have the real estate to grow hops in > near sufficient quantity.
Well, even if you can't grow all of your hops, every little bit helps. Depending upon your latitude (see my other post or my Grow-Hops group for more info), local climate, your green thumb, etc., a mature plant is supposed to produce from one to two pounds of dried hop cones per year. Let's assume the lower range of one pound; in terms of dollar value, that is over thirty bucks at the current price at my LHBS, which I'm afraid is going to increase. But in terms of how much beer you can brew, it depends upon how much you usually hop your beer; most 5-gallon recipes call for a total of three ounces -- one each for bittering, flavor, and aroma. I buy my bittering hops because there is no cheap and easy way to determine the AA% of homegrown hops; I therefore use two ounces of my own hops per 5-gallon batch, and I've been happy with the results. You can do the rest of the math from there: if you put in two plants, you should eventually grow enough for at least 16 batches (5-gallon) per year, and possibly as much as needed for 32 batches.
Now, how much real estate does it take? It depends on how you grow them. Some folks have a two story house with a south facing wall where they can locate a trellis between the windows or whatever; hop vines can grow to a height of 25 feet so that is ideal as long as you have a way to cut them down or lower them (unless you like getting on a ladder to harvest). If you're not against a tall building, then you need to build either a trellis or arbor or run a rope/ropes up to the top of a tall pole. I built an arbor from two trellises that are 8' tall and 12' apart; they are 36' long for 12 plants because your plants need to be at least 3' apart. I cut the string and bines from the arbor and stuffed an entire plant into my ice-chest mash tun (any large bin will work), and carried them into the air conditioned house to pick the cones from the bines at harvest time. Worked great.
Obviously, growing hops is not something that everyone will be able to do precisely because of the room that they take. On the other hand, there have been some discussion threads about people using large pots and shorter trellises, or running the bines (vines) horizontally along a fence that can be a more normal height (just takes more work to keep the bines on the fence), so there are all sorts of possibilities.
>> How much would I have to grow to brew a batch a week, a batch a month, >> etc?
>> I'm just thinking that I don't have the real estate to grow hops in >> near sufficient quantity.
>Well, even if you can't grow all of your hops, every little bit helps. >Depending upon your latitude (see my other post or my Grow-Hops group >for more info), local climate, your green thumb, etc., a mature plant is >supposed to produce from one to two pounds of dried hop cones per year. > Let's assume the lower range of one pound; in terms of dollar value, >that is over thirty bucks at the current price at my LHBS, which I'm >afraid is going to increase. But in terms of how much beer you can >brew, it depends upon how much you usually hop your beer; most 5-gallon >recipes call for a total of three ounces -- one each for bittering, >flavor, and aroma. I buy my bittering hops because there is no cheap >and easy way to determine the AA% of homegrown hops; I therefore use two >ounces of my own hops per 5-gallon batch, and I've been happy with the >results. You can do the rest of the math from there: if you put in two >plants, you should eventually grow enough for at least 16 batches >(5-gallon) per year, and possibly as much as needed for 32 batches.
>Now, how much real estate does it take? It depends on how you grow >them. Some folks have a two story house with a south facing wall where >they can locate a trellis between the windows or whatever; hop vines can >grow to a height of 25 feet so that is ideal as long as you have a way >to cut them down or lower them (unless you like getting on a ladder to >harvest). If you're not against a tall building, then you need to build >either a trellis or arbor or run a rope/ropes up to the top of a tall >pole. I built an arbor from two trellises that are 8' tall and 12' >apart; they are 36' long for 12 plants because your plants need to be at >least 3' apart. I cut the string and bines from the arbor and stuffed >an entire plant into my ice-chest mash tun (any large bin will work), >and carried them into the air conditioned house to pick the cones from >the bines at harvest time. Worked great.
>Obviously, growing hops is not something that everyone will be able to >do precisely because of the room that they take. On the other hand, >there have been some discussion threads about people using large pots >and shorter trellises, or running the bines (vines) horizontally along a >fence that can be a more normal height (just takes more work to keep the >bines on the fence), so there are all sorts of possibilities.
> Do you dry the hops on screens once harvested?....that seems reasonable > to my uneducated guess.
There are a number of ways to dry, and the best will depend on the size of your harvest. I've heard of some people who have had pretty meager crops producing perhaps 10 dry ounces or less, especially when they have only one or two plants; however, you should understand that some growers have harvested two pounds or more (dried) from just one plant, so it is possible to literally have 'bushels' of undried hops. Last year (my first year) I harvested enough to net 42 dried ounces, and based on my experience and posts in our Grow-Hops group, let me mention a few ways of drying.
You are correct that hops can be spread out on screen to dry; some folks just set the screens on saw horses in the garage or carport, others raise them up toward the ceiling with a pulley system, and some have spread their hops on screens up in the hot attic. Speaking of the attic, I've heard of people filling paper bags loosely with hops and putting the bags in the hot attic, too. Personally, I'd think that some sort of 'netting', such as those used for bundles of onions and suspended from the rafters, _might_ work better so long as they are loosely packed; on the other hand, a paper bag that is 'bulged out' but only partially filled, could be shook to mix up the hops to spread them around for better drying.
With a very small harvest, a food dehydrator will probably work if you already have one; but I would not recommend running out to buy one just to dry hops because it will probably be inadequate for your harvest (eventually), ... or so you _HOPE_. My harvest filled several very large basins, and the volume probably would have overwhelmed a typical food dehydrator; instead, because I harvested in early August because that's just when my hops were ready (you have no control over that), I just put the basins in the back of my car, parked it in the sun, and stirred them occasionally; they were sufficiently dry (determined when the 'sprig' snaps when bent) in two days. If done in batches in the food dehydrator, I suspect that many of them would develope mold before their turn in the dryer. Same goes for using trays in an oven set on low with the door left ajar; it probably works, but you can't put very many in there at a time, so it wouldn't be viable for a large quantity of hops.
I expect a much larger harvest next year, so I'm planning to try to build an 'oast'; one design that I like involves purchasing an old chest of drawers from salvage, 'Good Will', a yard sale, or some other place like that, and then cutting most of the bottom out of each _drawer_, leaving just a frame of sorts, and then fitting the bottom of each with heavy screen; each drawer is filled with hops, and an electric hair dryer is then used to force hot air into bottom of the chest, and it flows up through the damp hops and is vented out the top. The advantage of an old chest -- even if it's in beat up condtion -- is that it should be cheaper than buying new wood, and is already substantially built.
I'm sure there are a lot more ideas available through members of our Grow-Hops group, either in the searchable message threads, or photos.
>With a very small harvest, a food dehydrator will probably work if you >already have one; but I would not recommend running out to buy one just >to dry hops because it will probably be inadequate for your harvest >(eventually), ... or so you _HOPE_. My harvest filled several very >large basins, and the volume probably would have overwhelmed a typical >food dehydrator; instead, because I harvested in early August because >that's just when my hops were ready (you have no control over that), I >just put the basins in the back of my car, parked it in the sun, and >stirred them occasionally; they were sufficiently dry (determined when >the 'sprig' snaps when bent) in two days. If done in batches in the >food dehydrator, I suspect that many of them would develope mold before >their turn in the dryer. Same goes for using trays in an oven set on >low with the door left ajar; it probably works, but you can't put very >many in there at a time, so it wouldn't be viable for a large quantity >of hops.
I have a very large smoker (holds 4 hogs) that holds most of my harvest on screens. It's flat black and has vents on the top so sitting out in the Virginia sun, it dries quite nicely.
As an alternative, you could take a used 55gal drum, clean the crap out of it, paint it black and cut the bottom off. Build inexpensive drying racks using cheap lumber and screen, spacing your individual racks about 1.5" apart and load them up with hops. Set the drum upside down over the top with one of the bungs removed and let it sit in the sun for a day or so. I'd bet you hit 140F easily on the inside and your hops would dry quickly.
If you're growing hops to save / make money, I think you'd best check your math. It is a fair amount of effort and when you factor in how much you would spend buying them, you hourly wage is just below those fellows hanging out behind the Home Depot.
If you're growing hops to ensure consistent supply / quality, that's another story. They are attractive and aromatic plants that compliment your yard, they are kind of fun to watch grow (and explain to the neighbor that it's really not marijuana) and it does offer that added feeling of self-reliance.
As far as measuring the acid content, once dried boil a fixed quantity of hops for an hour or so, remove the cone, and continue to reduce to a fixed quantity of liquid. Titrate the "tea" do some very basic math, and you have your acid content. FWIW, I've found my hops to be very consistent year-to-year and am considering not bothering with measuring this year. (I'll probably continue, I tend to get a bit anal about things...)
wpoll...@gimail.af.mil wrote: > As far as measuring the acid content, once dried boil a fixed quantity > of hops for an hour or so, remove the cone, and continue to reduce to > a fixed quantity of liquid. Titrate the "tea" do some very basic > math, and you have your acid content. FWIW, I've found my hops to be > very consistent year-to-year and am considering not bothering with > measuring this year. (I'll probably continue, I tend to get a bit > anal about things...)
Bill, since I'm growing my own hops now and am planning to expand my hop yard, and also for the good of the other 875 members of our Grow-Hops group, it would be invaluable if you ... or anyone else who can provide us with some guidance ... will answer a few questions about your titration procedure. It's been about 30 years since I had chemistry and I still remember at least a little bit about titration, but for those of us growers who have never had chemistry or had it so long ago that we've forgotten the procedures, can you provide us with any guidelines and any formulas that you use?
Specifically, what do you typically use as a standard for the hop tea to be tested? I assume you recommend _distilled_ water, but what would be an appropriate ratio? Would something like a half ounce of hops in a couple of liters of water allow enough extraction to be representive of something like 25% utilization? And how much should that amount of tea be concentrated for the titration?
Also, what chemical are your using for a titration reagent, and is it available in a predetermined concentration? ... because one big problem most of us probably would face is the lack of access to a scale that is precise enough to mix our own concentrations.
Does the reagent you use react just to the alpha-acids, or to the pH in general, which I presume would also include the beta-acids, wouldn't it?
Any source that sells the reagent, if it happens to be difficult to locate, would also be appreciated.
Also, would a simple graduated cylinder, beaker, or flask be sufficient equipment, and would it be okay to then count drops from an eyedropper? ... or is a burette actually necessary? How about a pipette? I'd just like to be able to buy only the absolute essentials -- maybe even use an erlenmeyer flask that is otherwise used to make starters on a stir plate -- and have a step by step procedure to test my own hops.
I have all the specifics at home, but the titration procedure is rather basic and you can set yourself up for almost nothing. (Among other things, I homebrew biodiesel and need to titrate the acid content of my waste oil...)
I use phenolphthalein as an indicator. Phenol Red (available at any pool supply store) will work as well, just that the phenolphthalein indicates at a bit lower pH. Household lye (NaOH or KOH) is used as your reagent and baby medicine droppers to measure your titrant.
Dilute your reagent with distilled water to 1% solution. (10g/L) and store it with the lid on tight. (This should last you a long time)
I boiled 1g of hops into 250ml of water for about 1 hour, strained the cones out and further reduced to 100ml. If you go too far, just add distilled water to get back to 100ml. That became my sample batch.
At this point you're ready to titrate.
Place 10ml of your sample into a clean container. I use Dixie cups since their color (plain white) makes seeing the break very easy. Add 5 or 6 drops of your indicator and swirl around to mix thoroughly. Slowly drip your reagent into the cup while swirling it around. When the acid has been neutralized, your indicator will turn pink in color. Continue SLOWLY dripping reagent in until the solution remains pink for 20 or 30 seconds. Record the amount of reagent used (in ml.) This corresponds to grams/liter of acid in your solution.
This is where I stop. I'm not sure what the hops industry uses for their %Acid standard, but I took some hops of a known acid content and performed the same process and use that as my standard. Like I said, I have a spreadsheet at home with a little more detail on it, but that's all you really need to do. If you're looking for more specifics on home titration stations or if you want to go beyond Dixie cups and baby medicine droppers, most biodiesel web sites have all sorts of cool plans, better descriptions of the process, etc.
It's basic, almost crude, but it is repeatable and realistically that's all need for my home-grown hops.
> > As far as measuring the acid content, once dried boil a fixed quantity > > of hops for an hour or so, remove the cone, and continue to reduce to > > a fixed quantity of liquid. Titrate the "tea" do some very basic > > math, and you have your acid content. FWIW, I've found my hops to be > > very consistent year-to-year and am considering not bothering with > > measuring this year. (I'll probably continue, I tend to get a bit > > anal about things...)
> Bill, since I'm growing my own hops now and am planning to expand my hop > yard, and also for the good of the other 875 members of our Grow-Hops > group, it would be invaluable if you ... or anyone else who can provide > us with some guidance ... will answer a few questions about your > titration procedure. It's been about 30 years since I had chemistry and > I still remember at least a little bit about titration, but for those of > us growers who have never had chemistry or had it so long ago that we've > forgotten the procedures, can you provide us with any guidelines and any > formulas that you use?
> Specifically, what do you typically use as a standard for the hop tea to > be tested? I assume you recommend _distilled_ water, but what would be > an appropriate ratio? Would something like a half ounce of hops in a > couple of liters of water allow enough extraction to be representive of > something like 25% utilization? And how much should that amount of tea > be concentrated for the titration?
> Also, what chemical are your using for a titration reagent, and is it > available in a predetermined concentration? ... because one big problem > most of us probably would face is the lack of access to a scale that is > precise enough to mix our own concentrations.
> Does the reagent you use react just to the alpha-acids, or to the pH in > general, which I presume would also include the beta-acids, wouldn't it?
> Any source that sells the reagent, if it happens to be difficult to > locate, would also be appreciated.
> Also, would a simple graduated cylinder, beaker, or flask be sufficient > equipment, and would it be okay to then count drops from an eyedropper? > ... or is a burette actually necessary? How about a pipette? I'd > just like to be able to buy only the absolute essentials -- maybe even > use an erlenmeyer flask that is otherwise used to make starters on a > stir plate -- and have a step by step procedure to test my own hops.
wpoll...@gimail.af.mil wrote: > I have all the specifics at home, but the titration procedure is > rather basic and you can set yourself up for almost nothing.
snip
Thanks, Bill. Is it okay if I forward this post to my Grow-Hops group so others can benefit? I know I can basically just post all the same info, but you ought to get credit for this. This is going to be EXCELLENT news for most folks there; everyone basically is stuck with either paying for a lab test, or relying on a taste comparison, or else not relying on their hops for bittering.
Any chance that you would share your spreadsheet? ... or am I crossing the line to be asking for so much? If I am, I understand, and I'm very grateful for what you've already supplied. If you are willing to share your spead sheet, you can send it as an attachment to my personal email addy -- billvelek_AT_alltel.net -- which I'm sure you can see how to un-munge. Also, you ought to check out our group, if you haven't done so already. Thanks again.
Feel free to post to the Grow Hops group. I periodically surf it but can't post to it from the ship. (I don't understand why I can log on to google groups but not yahoo, but I'm not an IT weenie...)
I don't have access to my spreadsheet as it's at home and I'm currently deployed to the Persian Gulf, but if you're still interested, I'll send it when I get back.
The thing to remember is that you don't get % acid content, but g/L of your "tea" which is directly proportional to % acid. You also have to use the same amount of hops and the same amount of water every time you make a sample batch of tea.
My spreadsheet lists the "acid content" of my home-grown hops as well as the test batch I did using Magnum and Saaz hops pellets the first time around. When I'm using home grown hops (which is most of the time) I'm thinking g/L as opposed to % acid. (I usually get screwed up when buying hops for a new brew and find myself going back and forth to the recipe several times...)
Bill P.
On Feb 5, 3:28 am, Bill Velek <billve...@alltel.net> wrote:
> wpoll...@gimail.af.mil wrote: > > I have all the specifics at home, but the titration procedure is > > rather basic and you can set yourself up for almost nothing.
> snip
> Thanks, Bill. Is it okay if I forward this post to my Grow-Hops group > so others can benefit? I know I can basically just post all the same > info, but you ought to get credit for this. This is going to be > EXCELLENT news for most folks there; everyone basically is stuck with > either paying for a lab test, or relying on a taste comparison, or else > not relying on their hops for bittering.
> Any chance that you would share your spreadsheet? ... or am I crossing > the line to be asking for so much? If I am, I understand, and I'm very > grateful for what you've already supplied. If you are willing to share > your spead sheet, you can send it as an attachment to my personal email > addy -- billvelek_AT_alltel.net -- which I'm sure you can see how to > un-munge. Also, you ought to check out our group, if you haven't done > so already. Thanks again.
