rec.crafts.brewing or rec.crafts.bigot
Lynne O'Connor
honestly don't know what else to do.
St. Pats policy since 1991 has been very simple "we treat people with
honesty and respect" Those words appeared in early editions of the
catalog. The corollary is "and we expect the same in return." In 11
years I have never once cheated or lied to any customer at any time. I
have never mislead or posted misleading or false information on this
or any forum. Not once.
Statements that emails were ignored are patently false. I personally
answer every single one, every day. Statements that problems are
ignored could not be further from the truth. We have never, not once,
ever left a mistake unresolved. Never.
I am aware of ONE, read it, ONE, comletely honest critical post
regarding St. Pats service on this forum or HBD EVER. That was the
guy who had 2 broken cobalt beer blue bottles in a $300 order, called
and reported it to an employee, and nothing happened for a year. When
I saw the post, I publicly apologized, called him and fixed the
problem.
Just last year this individual defended me and reported to me when one
of the crazies (see below) was trying to get together a witch hunt .
That was a private email campaign that some of the current bashers
were involved in.
It is no secret that I avoid doing business with people who do not
treat St. Pats, either me or the employees, with honesty and respect.
I do not want their business.
How is our service? We have been the leader in service since 1991. I
have not seen prime time TV in over a decade because I work or take
care of family business every night. Other than a vacation, the last
day I did not work was Christmas, 2000. Business has never been
better. Up 35% first quarter 2002 over 2001 which was a booming year.
Mail order is actually up 60% in the same period. I personally print
out every order and highlight comments or nuances. I personally check
that every item is in every order. Sure some mistakes are still made
but those are resolved asap.
I once mocked a guy who had never dealt with me and trashed me. I
received 48 private emails, 47 said 'way to go Lynne'. There were 5
public responses, 2 critical of me, 2 pontificators, and 1
who-knows-what-he-said.
The down side of my simple philosophy has been the backlash from those
who,for a variety of reasons, resent this approach. Perhaps it's
simply jealosy, perhaps bigotry, or simply that any bully smart enough
to find the SEND key can have power on this unmoderated forum. There
are basically 3 types of these bashers.
The most vitriolic, from blatant bigotry to vulgarity, are those who
have never met me, never spoken to me, never ordered from St. Pats.
This would include the two individuals who started separate
Lynne-bashing discussion boards, the guy who got fired from his job in
Alabama for the crassness of his posts, and many others including the
current very active member, not to mention the numerous anonymous
obscene phone calls and emails. From posting patently false
information to simply shotgunning the forum with drivel about how its
actually better to get something somewhere else (on the latest thread
he made at least 6 false comparisons of my product to others). There
is also in this group those who have completely fabricated dealings
with St. Pats like the guy who claimed to have had 8 out of 10 bad
orders from us---when he had never ordered once. Some are the
poster boys for newsgroups-are-really-weird. Hundreds of
posts---diarrhea of drivel.
Some like to say "oh, but this isn't the first time' or 'they have a
pattern of this' or 'just go search archives' What they never say is
"and Lynne said that didn't happen and/or Lynne denied that.' Any one
familiar with those earlier posts is also familiar with my response.
The utter lack of fairness, the complete disregard of the facts, and
the distortion of facts to satiate their hatred or jealousy is
characteristic of bigotry.
Then there is a group who have ordered from St. Pats and who think
spending money entitles them to whores. No respect, no integrity.
Their posts always include the truth--from A to B. Forget the C-Z.
Penitentiaries are full of people who tell half the truth. The first
of these bashers was the guy who I had to call the police to get him
out of the shop. He posted here to "teach me a lesson". These people
are simply bullies, and just like the Taliban, bullies come in
bunches. One encourages the other and pretty soon you have a
good-ole-boy hate fest and that's what's happening now. Because their
posts are intended to be hurtful, they are NEVER completely honest,
NEVER, not a single one. Why be honest if your objective is simply a
vendetta? I challenge anyone to argue that the intention of any of
these posts was to resolve a problem and not simply to be a bully.
Then there is the group of patronizing pontificators. They like to
point how I haven't been diplomatic enough, or don't communicate well,
or perhaps just had a bad day. I am not aware of any of this group
who have ever once said 'but it's wrong to lie or distort about your
dealings with St. Pats' or 'I don't think bigotry has a place here', '
i don't think its appropriate to attach someone you know nothing
about or some business you have never dealt with' DID IT EVER OCCUR TO
THIS GROUP THAT THE SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS THE FACTS ON EVERY SINGLE
TRANSACTION IS ME. Of course, they never give credence to my
statements. What do you call people who completely ignore
contradictory facts and statements? Unfortunately, the lack of
fairness of this group only encourages the other two groups.
Has St. Pats and I been singled out for this bigotry. You'd have to be
dumber than two rocks not to see that.
I enjoy contributing to rcb and hbd. But I deliberately hold back
posts when I am getting nice comments because it always brings out the
haters. When someone said they liked st pats and our kegs, it was
only a matter of time before the haters attacked. They can never let
fair comments stand. the current crazy couldn't even wait to check a
single fact, just fire away. then fire again. then comes one guy who
didn't know i read this forum and told the truth A to B, and I respond
with A to Z, and then pontificators, and then change the thread to
hide from the A to Z facts, then the utter duplicity of accusing me of
failure to answer numerous emails, made so deliberately vague, that I
cannot factually address it. And so it goes.
There is a current thread on HBD that I would like to contribute to.
But I have been mentioned positively too many times in the past couple
of weeks. So I hold back because if I post now, bigots will attack.
the last time I even asked a question on HBD, I was flamed.
This is not written for those in the three groups of St. Pats haters.
As sure as the sun comes up in the east, they will keep on keepin' on.
If we didn't learn anything from 9-11, we learned that much. I fully
expect this post to be met by some Taliban high-five tee-hee-hee and a
few pontificators who will miss the whole point. I'm sure some will
find more devious ways to distort the truth about St. Pats. The fact
is that these people derive pleasure, as sick as that is, from this
kind of crap.
But I will keep doin' what I do, treating customers with honesty and
respect.
Respectfully yours,
Lynne O'Connor
St. Pats
John McNeal
Suffice it to say I had three mail purchases from St Pats and had three
problems. I reviewed all of my EMail exchanges with Lynne. They cover my
last two problems (kits that took a month to get and three kegs that weighed
65 pounds) and I can honestly say I was professional at all times and always
gave her the benefit of the doubt. As a matter of fact, my last EMail
concerning the weight is as follows:
Lynne,
Just bought 3 reconditioned soda kegs from you. Noted that the shipping
weight is listed as 65 lbs (see below). That's about twice the actual
weight, isn't it?
John
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
***Do not reply to this email. UPS and ST. PATRICK'S OF TEXAS will not
receive your reply.
At the request of ST. PATRICK'S OF TEXAS, this notice confirms the following
shipment has been sent.
Important Delivery Information
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Scheduled Delivery: 01-April-2002
Shipment Detail
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Ship To:
John McNeal
US
Number of Packages: 1
UPS Service: Ground
Weight: 65.0 LBS
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Lynne says she replied to that EMail and reduced the shipping charges
from my bill. I never received that EMail so as far as I knew my EMail was
totally ignored.
I don't have any Email documentation for my first problem because it was
totally handled via telephone followed by a 180 mile round trip to Austin.
BTW, Lynne's private EMails are almost as vitriolic as her post on RCB.
I was recently told that I have Taliban in my blood...whatever the hell that
means.
John
Denny Conn
>
> It's really disheartening to deal with this kind of garbage but I
> honestly don't know what else to do.
> But I will keep doin' what I do, treating customers with honesty and
> respect.
>
> Respectfully yours,
> Lynne O'Connor
> St. Pats
Lynne, I'm afraid you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole with
messages like this. I, too, run my own business, so I somewhat
sympathize with you. But my philosophy is "The customer is always
right, even when they're wrong". And when they're wrong, I certainly
don't accuse them publicly of "taliban tactics".
-------->Denny
--
"Beer doesn't care what your politics and religious beliefs are, it
treats everyone equally. You be good to it, and it will be good to
you."
-Mike Dixon
Allan
away.
Allan Dobler
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
>You would have much greater credibility Lynne, if you shut up and went
>away.
Agreed. These tantrums aren't doing anything but making you look worse.
Trying to defend yourself is at best a waste of time, of course you will
have a high opinion of your own store, there's no need to tell us that.
If you really want to defend your business, rather than post on here
about it, try to figure out WHY people are saying bad things about St
Pats. I doubt it's a conspiracy or witch hunt against you. I rarely
see negative posts about any other homebrew store, and there's no reason why
people would be motivated to make up things about you specifically.
Listening to what people are complaining about and trying to fix it is
the mark of a good business. At least ignore them if that's what you really
want to do. Coming on here and saying the things you did only further
alienates yourself from future customers.
BTW, I've never bought anything from you myself, and I probably never
will. Not because of anything anybody else has said about St Pats, but
because of things you say on here.
John.
--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** sp...@shagg.net --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Head Administrator, Monty Python's Flying Talker ***
**************************************************************
Kelvin Kundert
HBD? You can't please all of the people all of the time. Besides,
it's really only a select portion of the homebrewing community that
participates in these forums. Surely the vast majority of your
business must be done without problems at all.
I don't know whom to believe. Perhaps some or all of the posters who
have given you bad publicity are stretching the truth or outright
lying about their experiences. Perhaps you are too. The point is, I
don't know since it wasn't me who was part of these business
transactions. I will not make my choices of where to take my business
based upon a forum like this. My first choice is still going to be my
local homebrew supply shop, then whatever is more convenient for me
for items which I can't get locally.
I think everybody should go have a beer & relax.
Kelvin
stp...@bga.com (Lynne O'Connor) wrote some stuff which I've snipped.
Felix
flame wars. However, I must say, after reading Lynne's post I never
plan to shop at St. Pat's. Very unprofessional and at about the same
level of the people who are allegedly against her. Sorry, Lynne, you
kind of sound like a 'crazy' yourself.
On 13 Apr 2002 14:41:21 -0500, sp...@shagg.net (John 'Shaggy' Kolesar)
wrote:
Tom Biasi
With all due respect, your post has done more to harm your business than any
post I have ever read about St. Pats. People on this group are very mellow
and flames are very rare. I would say "Relax and have a homebrew" but maybe
you have done so already. Perhaps you fired off a post in frustration, I did
once and was extremely regretful.
I would bet that you have just chased away some potential customers.
All the best,
Tom
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.0204...@posting.google.com...
> It's really disheartening to deal with this kind of garbage but I
> honestly don't know what else to do.
>
>Snip a diatribe
Hopsaddict
> It's really disheartening to deal with this kind of garbage but I
> honestly don't know what else to do.
>
> St. Pats policy since 1991 has been very simple "we treat people with
> honesty and respect" Those words appeared in early editions of the
> catalog. The corollary is "and we expect the same in return." In 11
> years I have never once cheated or lied to any customer at any time. I
> have never mislead or posted misleading or false information on this
> or any forum. Not once.
>
> Statements that emails were ignored are patently false. I personally
> answer every single one, every day. Statements that problems are
> ignored could not be further from the truth. We have never, not once,
> ever left a mistake unresolved. Never.
Ahem, All I can say is 1 e-mail sent and 1 e-mail unanswered. One
phone call with question , and one "Our computer is tied up with a
brewing contest right now" reply. And one honestly disheartned
customer. On my next attempt I requested I be e-mailed a tracking
number upon shipment I recieved none. Sorry hun, but with my
pocketbook it takes only 2 strikes to be out. Patently false or not my
cash now goes elsewhere.
>
> I am aware of ONE, read it, ONE, comletely honest critical post
> regarding St. Pats service on this forum or HBD EVER. That was the
> guy who had 2 broken cobalt beer blue bottles in a $300 order, called
> and reported it to an employee, and nothing happened for a year. When
> I saw the post, I publicly apologized, called him and fixed the
> problem.
>
> Just last year this individual defended me and reported to me when one
> of the crazies (see below) was trying to get together a witch hunt .
> That was a private email campaign that some of the current bashers
> were involved in.
>
> It is no secret that I avoid doing business with people who do not
> treat St. Pats, either me or the employees, with honesty and respect.
> I do not want their business.
>
> How is our service? We have been the leader in service since 1991. I
> have not seen prime time TV in over a decade because I work or take
> care of family business every night. Other than a vacation, the last
> day I did not work was Christmas, 2000. Business has never been
> better. Up 35% first quarter 2002 over 2001 which was a booming year.
> Mail order is actually up 60% in the same period. I personally print
> out every order and highlight comments or nuances. I personally check
> that every item is in every order. Sure some mistakes are still made
> but those are resolved asap.
>
Seems like with all this business another computer would be a rather
easy right off , eh?
I would just like to say that I have NEVER posted anything negative
about St. Pats until now. But your use of Sept. 11 references to help
you bash the posters of this group has sealed my opinion of not just
your company maam, but of you as well.
Sincerly,
Neil Pushis
Auburn , IN
George Daher
live in the Great State of Texas, I have not purchased anything from
St.Pats. This is not to say that I wont. I too, as another user posted
support my two local brew shops here in the Houston area. If I ever find
myself in Austin I will visit St Pats. They have a great web site with a
plethora of information on it that was very helpful to me when I started
brewing. Before building my HERMS, I considered very seriously purchasing
their three tier system. I had a friend who saw their display model and
raved of its quality. My friend owns a welding shop and specializes in SS
welding. He knows what he is talking about. I called St. Pats with many
questions about their system and even got Lynn on the phone once and
everyone I spoke to and asked questions to was helpful and friendly. I did
not by the system, but I have a good taste in my mouth with the people there
that I never met.
There has been many brew stores, brew pubs, and brew related businesses
disappear over the last few years. Hell here in Houston we once had eight
brew pubs and now we have one. Bashing or posting negative crap only hurts
another business promoting this great hobby. There are some well known and
respected posters here on this RCB that I don't believe understand the long
term effects of their posts. This is a business like any other business if
you have a problem work it out. I do not know any of the St Pats People but
I don't believe for a minute that with tact and diplomacy any problem will
not get resolved. If you went to a department store and didn't like the
treatment or sale's tactic used on you, would you go out and take a full
page ad slamming and whining. No. you would try to resolve the problem
through the chain of command.
In closing this is suppose to be a beer brewers discussion group. I don't
care to read all these negative posts about other brewers of brew related
business' . Anyone who brews beer or is part of keeping this hobby alive
should be saluted and commended. Let let this group be for something
positive only and not negative BS. Brew beer, Drink Beer, Piss Beer, and
then Drink more beer. Leave the bullshit off this group.
--
George Daher
Katy, TX
"Life is good, Beer is better, Prost!!!"
www.geocities.com/sgdaher/brewery
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.0204...@posting.google.com...
jpstod
Please be aware that most of us don't pay one bit of attention to
what most people spout off here on rec.crafts.brewing and take alot of the
posts with a grain of salt.
Personally I purchase 100% of my Homebrew Supplies through my LHBS. And the
reason is very simple, I am friends with the local owner and I will pay
extra for that privilege but I can tell you that if I ever am forced to
purchase online I will do it through you first since I have had the pleasure
of meeting you in person at Bluebonnet and since we have been face to face I
will take that experience as my determining factor over what some faceless
person on the net has said.
For those of you who have had bad experiences with St. Pats do not do
anymore business with St. Pats and those who have had great experiences with
St. Pats keeping doing business...it is starting to sound like a political
debate in here..did too, did not, did too, did not, now lets all drop this
scratching and biting and get back to relaxing and having a homebrew....
lets get back to the basic debates...DRY Vs LIQUID, GLASS Vs. PLASTIC, ALE
Vs. LAGERS
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.0204...@posting.google.com...
The Phantom
As long as you're in the neighborhood, what's the deal on you committing
to host the AHA Nationals first round for the Southern region and then
reneging at the last minute? I hear that really put those AHA folks in a
bind.
BrewBeerNotBud
> honestly don't know what else to do.
>
Perhaps you should take up writing fiction, you seem to be VERY good
at ignoring fact.
But anyway, I'm assuming you are female, judging from the other
responses. I'll say here and now, I never spoke to a female over the
phone, or by E-mail. Maybe one of your employees are causing the
problem. The man I spoke to was rude, abrupt, and uncooperative. My 2
bad experiences were over a year ago. Do you still have the same
employees? Maybe you need to sit them down and give them a talk. You
can't afford to be like the parent who always believes her precious
child, no matter what the facts.
But after your little tantrum, you'll still have to work long and
hard to convince me.....
scrape at mindspring dot com
>lets get back to the basic debates...DRY Vs LIQUID, GLASS Vs. PLASTIC, ALE
>Vs. LAGERS
Dry yeast
Glass secondary, plastic primary
Ale
What about Malt Extract Syrup vs. DME
Bottled vs. kegged
sub-category: bulk prime vs. bottle prime if bottled
force carbonate vs. prime if kegged
Plastic stirring spoon vs. metal
and like that.
Mike D' Brewer
business from a customer perspective.
Mike
Lynne O'Connor <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.0204...@posting.google.com...
Gregor Zellmann
Felix <res0...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Sorry, Lynne, you
> kind of sound like a 'crazy' yourself.
couldn't have said it better!
Gregor
John Misrahi
STOVETOP?'
oh wait,, i think im in the wrong NG
d'oh
heh heh heh
Kevin and Susan Adkins
"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3cb8e951...@news.mindspring.com...
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 02:10:49 GMT, "jpstod" <jps...@wf.quik.com> wrote:
>
> >lets get back to the basic debates...DRY Vs LIQUID, GLASS Vs. PLASTIC,
ALE
> >Vs. LAGERS
This one's easy for me, first off it's always ALE mainly becuase I perfer it
but, also haven't had a chance to try the whole lagering process. I've used
GLASS since I started so using plastic would probably a step backwards, and
I's always used DRY extract and LIQUID yeast.
> What about Malt Extract Syrup vs. DME
I've only used the DME is there a big difference between the 2 besides how
you get them?
Bottled vs. kegged
This one should be easy, I just bought a kegging system that should make
this whole hobby alot more fun from what I've read. I always dreaded the
bottling.
> force carbonate vs. prime if kegged
I plan to force carbonate, but in the future I may try priming the keg is
there a difference in body or flavor when you do one over the other?
--
Kevin Adkins
VP 4SKC
tjwheels
worth of products from St Pats. When I opened the boxes and looked
over the products I thought a part was missing from one of the pots. I
called and talked to a lady on the phone that said she would forward
my name and number to Lynne and she would call (never did). After
rechecking my order the part in question was included all along, just
didn't see it (still, I thought she should have called). A week later
I had a question regarding my new equipment, called again, the answer
I got was e-mail Lynne she will answer all e-mail the same day. Well,
when you spend that kind of money and have a question who the hell
wants to send e-mails back and forth. To make a long story short, my
first order with St Pats will also be my last. Tom
"Mike D' Brewer" <sarge_N...@sbabootcamp.com> wrote in message news:<AN9u8.11117$4D6...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>...
Dan Listermann
news:Jy5u8.1296$F_6....@newsfeed.intelenet.net...
> lets get back to the basic debates...DRY Vs LIQUID, GLASS Vs. PLASTIC, ALE
> Vs. LAGERS
Oh yea? What about LEAF Vs. PELLETS????? HUH?
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
> Lynne,
> Please be aware that most of us don't pay one bit of attention
to
> what most people spout off here on rec.crafts.brewing and take alot of the
> posts with a grain of salt.
>
> Personally I purchase 100% of my Homebrew Supplies through my LHBS. And
the
> reason is very simple, I am friends with the local owner and I will pay
> extra for that privilege but I can tell you that if I ever am forced to
> purchase online I will do it through you first since I have had the
pleasure
> of meeting you in person at Bluebonnet and since we have been face to face
I
> will take that experience as my determining factor over what some faceless
> person on the net has said.
>
> For those of you who have had bad experiences with St. Pats do not do
> anymore business with St. Pats and those who have had great experiences
with
> St. Pats keeping doing business...it is starting to sound like a political
> debate in here..did too, did not, did too, did not, now lets all drop
this
> scratching and biting and get back to relaxing and having a homebrew....
>
Colin Taddonio
Well according to someone who posted to this thread, you are only
going a-b and ignoring c-z, are a liar, only tell half the truth, are
vitriolic, a bigot, display hatred, are a basher, a pontificator, a
bully, a Taliban. Maybe I missed some, so I guess I only telling part
of the truth.
**************
Medford, NY
swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail
Mysterious Voice
>Well according to someone who posted to this thread, you are only
>going a-b and ignoring c-z, are a liar, only tell half the truth, are
>vitriolic, a bigot, display hatred, are a basher, a pontificator, a
>bully, a Taliban. Maybe I missed some, so I guess I only telling part
>of the truth.
I happen to enjoy the posts about experiences that other homebrewers
have had with St. Pat's or any other supplier. Of course, I'm an
adult who is capable of making my own judgments about the probable
veracity of such reports (as opposed to blindly assuming they are
infallibly accurate), so I simply appreciate them as I appreciate
input data generally.
In addition, it's kind of amusing to watch Lynne struggle with the
empirical evidence and attempt to argue that absolutely none of that
evidence might indicate areas for business improvement.
MV
Tom
I never knew homebrewing could be so entertaining!
Tom
"Mysterious Voice" <mysterio...@REMOVEfreecell.com> wrote in message
news:3cb9e3a5...@news.cfw.com...
Lars Hedbor
With the exclusive items that you carry, I have occasionally thought of
ordering from St. Pat's. In addition, your catalogue is one of the better
ones I've seen, and your Web site is well designed and has useful content.
I've also seen any number of people comment on how delightful you are in
person -- helpful, knowledgeable, and so forth.
Something evidently changes when you sit down at the keyboard or get on the
telephone, though. Even if I could completely discount the dismally
consistent reports the responses people have gotten from you and your staff
alike when they called with a problem, I cannot get past your own words.
You claim to treat everyone with "honesty and respect" -- and yet you
yourself throw around ad hominem attacks against your detractors, calling
them liars, bums, and terrorists (to pick some recent examples). I could
even look past a single lapse of this sort -- I understand that people get
worked up and forget that their words live for a very long time in
cyberspace.
Sadly, you are nothing if not consistent in seeing your customers as sworn
enemies the first time they have a complaint. Looking in the archives, it
seems that with every complaint that's mentioned publicly, you feel
compelled to publicly smash the complainer into the ground. Your
Hillaryesque hints at a vast conspiracy in this latest spew of vitriol is
utterly amazing.
I've seen a lot of other vendors mentioned on this newsgroup, whether
newbies are asking "how is X to deal with," or "Y's products really seem
superfluous to me," and yet I've never seen another vendor who is so
constant in seeming to truly believe that the customer is always WRONG --
and an evil person, to boot, if he dares question your business dealings
with him.
So, anyway, thanks again, Lynn. I appreciate the reminder. If you want,
you may place my name on your vindictive little "never accept orders from"
list -- that way, I'll be safer from the temptation to break down and obtain
undermodified malt, Budvar yeast, or any of the other items you've locked up
distribution on. (Do these suppliers know how you treat your customers,
that you're eliminating so many potential buyers of their goods from your
customer base?)
Sincerely,
Lars D. H. Hedbor
scrape at mindspring dot com
<kad...@twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:3cb8e951...@news.mindspring.com...
>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 02:10:49 GMT, "jpstod" <jps...@wf.quik.com> wrote:
>>
>> >lets get back to the basic debates...DRY Vs LIQUID, GLASS Vs. PLASTIC,
>ALE
>> >Vs. LAGERS
>
>This one's easy for me, first off it's always ALE mainly becuase I perfer it
>but, also haven't had a chance to try the whole lagering process. I've used
>GLASS since I started so using plastic would probably a step backwards, and
>I's always used DRY extract and LIQUID yeast.
>
>
>> What about Malt Extract Syrup vs. DME
>
>I've only used the DME is there a big difference between the 2 besides how
>you get them?
I statrted with DME, but went to the syrup as it's what my local shop
has the better quality of. The main difference to me is that the
syrup doesn't clump.
> Bottled vs. kegged
>
>This one should be easy, I just bought a kegging system that should make
>this whole hobby alot more fun from what I've read. I always dreaded the
>bottling.
'Zackly. Bottling is such a chore that I found my interest waning.
Since getting kegging equipment last summer, I've brewed more than I
have in years.
>> force carbonate vs. prime if kegged
>
>I plan to force carbonate, but in the future I may try priming the keg is
>there a difference in body or flavor when you do one over the other?
Don't know. I'm sure there are those that will proclaim a difference,
but I like the ability to rack to the keg and be drinking it that
night.
Herb G.
Do you want some cheese to go with that whine? LOL !
Lynne O'Connor wrote:
<SNIP>
--
Everyone has to have something to believe in.
I believe I'll have another beer.
The Quest for a better beer continues.
Michael San Clemente
experiences with, say, Williams, Northern, or B3. I've no such stories to
share, but who knows, maybe someone does....
"Lars Hedbor" <lhe...@nosmap.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xmmu8.23717$G72.16015@sccrnsc01...
Glenn L.
publicity?"
There may be people who bad-mouth both you and your company any chance they
get. Let them. There are (from what I can tell) many more who are
satisfied with your shop. These are the ones that will continue to do
business with you and advise others to do the same. These are the ones you
should be focusing on. Your enemies are lost causes, so why worry about
them?
I suggest honestly examining your business and seeing where you can improve
it. Start with the problems of which people are complaining. Do these
complaints have any merit? If so, focus your energy on that and forget
about the nay-sayers. There is no business in existence that can't use some
improvement. Also, if having a good reputation in this group is that
important to you, it might help to get involved more frequently in
non-St-Pat's topics. Dan Listermann is usually one of the first people to
respond to just about any topic. I don't think I have read a bad word about
him. Perhaps if you did the same, people will see how friendly and
knowledgeable you are, and they may be more willing to do business with you.
Personally, all of my dealings with St. Pat's have been smooth, and I am
quite satisfied with the service I have received. I happily recommend your
shop when the subject comes up (both in and outside this forum). However,
it seems like you may be exaggerating a little. You say that you answer
every e-mail personally on a daily basis. I sent you a question and I got a
response after about 4 days. Admittedly, it was a general question and not
a service complaint, so the response time didn't matter. But, I had to
laugh a little when I read that you answer e-mails every day. Did that sour
me on purchasing from you? Absolutely not.
Just my nickel's worth.
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.0204...@posting.google.com...
> It's really disheartening to deal with this kind of garbage but I
> honestly don't know what else to do.
>
[snip]
Colin Taddonio
I've dealt with all of them and had one complaint about an item that
arrived broken. A replacement was sent by overnight mail and I
received an apology be e-mail.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:44:36 GMT, "Michael San Clemente"
<nospams...@tymewyse.com> wrote:
>Maybe she wouldn't feel so persecuted if brewers would offer their bad
>experiences with, say, Williams, Northern, or B3. I've no such stories to
>share, but who knows, maybe someone does....
>
Michael San Clemente
"Glenn L." <lan...@adjuncts.netzero.net> wrote in message
news:TAqu8.261935$S9.19...@news.easynews.com...
ben w
> "jpstod" <jps...@wf.quik.com> wrote in message
> news:Jy5u8.1296$F_6....@newsfeed.intelenet.net...
>
> > lets get back to the basic debates...DRY Vs LIQUID, GLASS Vs. PLASTIC, ALE
> > Vs. LAGERS
>
> Oh yea? What about LEAF Vs. PELLETS????? HUH?
I'll submit a plug for plugs. (Or "pluggs", when using Fuggles,
because "Fugg Plugg" just looks better on the recipe page).
I love working with plugs -- they seem to retain the fresh hop aroma
almost *better* than whole leaf, and they're so easy to work with.
Half-ounce each.
Although we did a batch with nothing but pellets recently and the
clean-up was much easier. The wort chiller rinsed right off.
ben
ben w
> honestly don't know what else to do.
A few people suggested some ideas.
I'm just curious as to what this particular flavor of "bigotry" is.
Anti-Texanism? Hibernophobia? Male chauvinism?
My FLHBS meets almost all of my needs. Special items I get from B3.
Never had any cause to visit St. Pat's before, now I have a reason to
avoid it. I don't really like Czechvar anyway.
Good job, Lynne.
ben
Brian Lundeen
> honestly don't know what else to do.
If I may be so bold as to pontificate in a patronizing manner,... ignore
it?
After all, you later wrote...
> Business has never been
> better. Up 35% first quarter 2002 over 2001 which was a booming year.
> Mail order is actually up 60% in the same period.
> Then there is the group of patronizing pontificators.
Sorry, you called...
> DID IT EVER OCCUR TO
> THIS GROUP THAT THE SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS THE FACTS ON EVERY SINGLE
> TRANSACTION IS ME. Of course, they never give credence to my
> statements.
Here's something you might want to consider. You might not have all the
facts. Especially regarding what your employees are saying to customers over
the phone. If one of your people tells a complaining customer that he is
dumber than an inbred artichoke, do you think he is likely to admit this to
you when questioned about it? Don't assume your people are being polite and
helpful. If you aren't doing it already, maybe you should think about
monitoring some calls to see if there is any truth to these complaints about
less than helpful phone manners.
> There is a current thread on HBD that I would like to contribute to.
> But I have been mentioned positively too many times in the past couple
> of weeks. So I hold back because if I post now, bigots will attack.
> the last time I even asked a question on HBD, I was flamed.
Now, I could be wrong here (we patronizing pontificators often are), but I
interpret this as meaning Lynne would like someone to go in and trash her on
HBD, too. With that "winning streak" broken, she will then be free to
participate. Anyone in the Gang of Conspirators care to oblige her? ;-)
>
> This is not written for those in the three groups of St. Pats haters.
> As sure as the sun comes up in the east, they will keep on keepin' on.
> If we didn't learn anything from 9-11, we learned that much. I fully
> expect this post to be met by some Taliban high-five tee-hee-hee and a
> few pontificators who will miss the whole point.
Hmmm.... People who criticize Lynne's company, people who smash airplanes
into office towers and kill thousands of people...
I can't tell the difference, can you tell the difference? ;-)
I understand you're upset, and I am smart enough to know there are two sides
to every story. But comments like this just make you look like a headcase.
You are a smart and knowledgeable businesswoman, with a very personable side
as many people have attested, but also a rather dark and nasty side. When
you bring that latter side into a public forum, where opinions are freely
expressed (something the Taliban were not too keen on, as I recall), then
you shouldn't be too surprised by the patronizing pontificating that ensues.
Cheers
Brian
Joey
employee was rude to me." I talk to the employee, they deny it... and as a
matter of fact, the employee can be well known for their 'do whatever it
takes' attitude with customers. My response: Maybe you weren't
intentionally rude/providing poor service, but if the customer complains,
there is SOMETHING you could've done differently.
Basically, a customer doesn't complain for something to do. Yea, some
people, you just can't please, I see it every day. But the normal customer
won't just call/email a complaint unless they legitamately have a complaint.
So again, the question should be, "what could I have done differently?" or
"where did I go wrong?" and look for a solution so it doesn't happen again.
That is being proactively involved with your customers, vs being reactive.
Yea, I agree with everyone, you shouldn't of said anything. If you were to
say anything, you should've openly said "yes, there was an error...this is
what I will do (or what I have done) to resolve it for you. We apologize
for any inconveniences this may have caused." end of story. You just
placed blame on your customers, openly in a forum of MANY potential
customers.. Ouch!
"Denny Conn" <denny....@ci.GETRIDOFTHISPART.eugene.or.us> wrote in
message news:3CB87B06...@ci.GETRIDOFTHISPART.eugene.or.us...
> Lynne O'Connor wrote:
> >
> > It's really disheartening to deal with this kind of garbage but I
> > honestly don't know what else to do.
> <snip>
> > But I will keep doin' what I do, treating customers with honesty and
> > respect.
> >
> > Respectfully yours,
> > Lynne O'Connor
> > St. Pats
>
> Lynne, I'm afraid you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole with
> messages like this. I, too, run my own business, so I somewhat
> sympathize with you. But my philosophy is "The customer is always
> right, even when they're wrong". And when they're wrong, I certainly
> don't accuse them publicly of "taliban tactics".
>
> -------->Denny
> --
> "Beer doesn't care what your politics and religious beliefs are, it
> treats everyone equally. You be good to it, and it will be good to
> you."
> -Mike Dixon
Al Klein
rec.crafts.brewing:
>My FLHBS meets almost all of my needs. Special items I get from B3.
>Never had any cause to visit St. Pat's before, now I have a reason to
>avoid it. I don't really like Czechvar anyway.
If you change your mind, White Labs has a Budvar.
---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9]
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
Gulftracker
tactics only the jerks that slander her business. I have had nothing but
good service from her and find her message completely justified.
--
Bill
http://home.swbell.net/bufkin
Alvin, TX
Gulftracker
"bigot", while it has a sharp edge to it, wasn't far from the truth. I'm of
the opinion if God had chosen to make you a man, then your defense of your
personal and business reputation would be seen as commendable and even
respected.
When men argue things often get very heated. We raise voices and speak
derogatory remarks towards each other, but for the most part there is this
unspoken level of respect maintained if for no other reason to keep things
from going to fist city. I don't see that same level of respect with past
Lynne/St Pats Bashings.
I also like your use of the word 'Taliban' to describe the few people behind
the bulk of the attacks. I'm not saying everyone here that disagrees with
you or voices an honest problem should be labeled Taliban but I get your
point. Any intelligent person realizes there is a lot of misinformation
spread on this or any newsgroup. To expand your analogy, I see you as the
USA. The USA took a lot of abuse before being provoked into action. We stood
by and let the first attempt at the World Trade Center go unanswered. But
when our limit was reached, watch out Taliban!!
And I've seen the same thing happen here more than once. You stand by on the
side line until your limit is reached then.....kaboooom!! And while I think
the carpet bomb you dropped was a bit of overkill (with perhaps some
collateral damage), I respect your right to defend yourself and the family
business the way you see fit.
I had the privilege of meeting you at your store back a few months back.
Talked with you face to face about my purchase and could tell right away you
were a person with integrity and pride in what you do. And that's why I'll
continue do business with St Pats. BTW the brewpub you recommended for me
and the wife had both excellent beer and food.
I also agree that every time your name is mentioned here, the crap starts
flying. Which is really a shame because we are all being deprived of a
health of knowledge by the few that choose to go to attack mode when your
name appears. I hope some day that could change...
--
Bill
http://home.swbell.net/bufkin
Alvin, TX
"Lynne O'Connor" <stp...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:8c041a20.0204...@posting.google.com...
> It's really disheartening to deal with this kind of garbage but I
> honestly don't know what else to do.
>
> day I did not work was Christmas, 2000. Business has never been
> better. Up 35% first quarter 2002 over 2001 which was a booming year.
> about or some business you have never dealt with' DID IT EVER OCCUR TO
> THIS GROUP THAT THE SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS THE FACTS ON EVERY SINGLE
> TRANSACTION IS ME. Of course, they never give credence to my
> statements. What do you call people who completely ignore
> contradictory facts and statements? Unfortunately, the lack of
> fairness of this group only encourages the other two groups.
>
> Has St. Pats and I been singled out for this bigotry. You'd have to be
> dumber than two rocks not to see that.
>
> I enjoy contributing to rcb and hbd. But I deliberately hold back
> posts when I am getting nice comments because it always brings out the
> haters. When someone said they liked st pats and our kegs, it was
> only a matter of time before the haters attacked. They can never let
> fair comments stand. the current crazy couldn't even wait to check a
> single fact, just fire away. then fire again. then comes one guy who
> didn't know i read this forum and told the truth A to B, and I respond
> with A to Z, and then pontificators, and then change the thread to
> hide from the A to Z facts, then the utter duplicity of accusing me of
> failure to answer numerous emails, made so deliberately vague, that I
> cannot factually address it. And so it goes.
>
> There is a current thread on HBD that I would like to contribute to.
> But I have been mentioned positively too many times in the past couple
> of weeks. So I hold back because if I post now, bigots will attack.
> the last time I even asked a question on HBD, I was flamed.
>
> This is not written for those in the three groups of St. Pats haters.
> As sure as the sun comes up in the east, they will keep on keepin' on.
> If we didn't learn anything from 9-11, we learned that much. I fully
> expect this post to be met by some Taliban high-five tee-hee-hee and a
> few pontificators who will miss the whole point. I'm sure some will
> find more devious ways to distort the truth about St. Pats. The fact
> is that these people derive pleasure, as sick as that is, from this
> kind of crap.
>
ben w
> Lynne after reading all the replies here I think your use of the word
> "bigot", while it has a sharp edge to it, wasn't far from the truth. I'm of
> the opinion if God had chosen to make you a man, then your defense of your
> personal and business reputation would be seen as commendable and even
> respected.
Couldn't agree less. The other retailers on the group don't act this way.
ben
Brian Lundeen
"Gulftracker" <gulft...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VCsv8.1245$kV5.50...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> "bigot", while it has a sharp edge to it, wasn't far from the truth. I'm
of
> the opinion if God had chosen to make you a man, then your defense of your
> personal and business reputation would be seen as commendable and even
> respected.
Bill, that is insulting to every person who has expressed disagreement with
Lynne's commentary. "We're just out to get her because she's a woman".
That's bullshit. I see a lot of people take issue with Jack Schmidling's
tone and attitude when he comes in here to ostensibly defend his product.
There is no gender bias here. We'll call people assholes whatever sex they
happen to be. And Lynne should take some comfort in the fact that people
appreciate her enough to argue with her. My feeling is, if someone is a
complete unmitigated waste of skin, I won't waste my time conversing with
them, even if it is to fight. I just ignore them completely. I have to like
someone on some level to be bothered fighting with them.
>
> When men argue things often get very heated. We raise voices and speak
> derogatory remarks towards each other, but for the most part there is this
> unspoken level of respect maintained if for no other reason to keep things
> from going to fist city. I don't see that same level of respect with past
> Lynne/St Pats Bashings.
To be blunt, I see far worse comments coming from Lynne than I see going to
her. She has used language that imply her detractors are everything from
homosexuals (as if that's an insult) to terrorists. I have tried to keep a
moderately respectful, although certainly critical, tone because I do
understand that she is upset and that in her everyday life she is probably a
pretty decent person. As I have said, there are two sides to every story,
and I'm sure some of her bashers have left out or distorted information to
suit their own purposes. There could even be people who are simply
fabricating their whole story. These forums do attract the whackos. At the
same time, I can't believe it is ALL bullshit, and Lynne's approach that
every public complaint requires a truly vicious counter attack is not
defensible.
>
> I also like your use of the word 'Taliban' to describe the few people
behind
> the bulk of the attacks. I'm not saying everyone here that disagrees with
> you or voices an honest problem should be labeled Taliban but I get your
> point. Any intelligent person realizes there is a lot of misinformation
> spread on this or any newsgroup. To expand your analogy, I see you as the
> USA. The USA took a lot of abuse before being provoked into action. We
stood
> by and let the first attempt at the World Trade Center go unanswered. But
> when our limit was reached, watch out Taliban!!
>
> And I've seen the same thing happen here more than once. You stand by on
the
> side line until your limit is reached then.....kaboooom!! And while I
think
> the carpet bomb you dropped was a bit of overkill (with perhaps some
> collateral damage), I respect your right to defend yourself and the family
> business the way you see fit.
There is so much in this section that I disagree with, for so many reasons,
that in the interest of future amicable discussions between the two of us,
I'm simply going to say, we'll agree to disagree.
>
> I had the privilege of meeting you at your store back a few months back.
> Talked with you face to face about my purchase and could tell right away
you
> were a person with integrity and pride in what you do. And that's why I'll
> continue do business with St Pats. BTW the brewpub you recommended for me
> and the wife had both excellent beer and food.
Imagine, a person who works in sales being able to convince a customer that
they stand for integrity and pride in their work? Well, I'm not going to
argue she doesn't. I don't know her (and frankly neither do you) and i've
always been willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. However, I will
say that her over the top outbursts remind me of a quote from Hamlet: The
lady doth protest too much, methinks.
>
> I also agree that every time your name is mentioned here, the crap starts
> flying. Which is really a shame because we are all being deprived of a
> health of knowledge by the few that choose to go to attack mode when your
> name appears. I hope some day that could change...
Now that is simply untrue. Lynne has posted here many times on beer and
brewing and people have conversed with her politely on the topic at hand. If
Lynne were to post something about her trip to Prague, for example, and
someone responded by saying "Yea, well I never got my shipment, and your
sales people... blah blah" then I would say you are correct, that person is
just an idiot and is in fact discouraging a very well-travelled and
knowledgeable beer person from sharing her experiences with the rest of us.
I don't see that happening, and I hope it never does. I welcome Lynne's
input. I also respect her RIGHT to come in here and tear a strip off people
if she so chooses. I don't think that makes her look too good, but she
certainly has the right to do it. And people have the right to publicly
complain about her company, or complain about her attitude, etc. If there is
one thing we should take away from 9/11, it's that we should be forever
thankful that we live in countries where we can do that without fear of
death squads banging down our door in the middle of the night.
Cheers
Brian
Dan Listermann
news:a9n7di$ncl$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
>However, I will say that her over the top outbursts remind me of a quote
from Hamlet: The
> lady doth protest too much, methinks.
>
I thought that was from Macbeth. "Out damn spot!"
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
>
Larry Combs
Dan Listermann wrote:
> "Brian Lundeen" <blun...@spam.rrc.mb.ca> wrote in message
> news:a9n7di$ncl$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
>
> >However, I will say that her over the top outbursts remind me of a quote
> from Hamlet: The
> > lady doth protest too much, methinks.
> >
> I thought that was from Macbeth. "Out damn spot!"
>
> --
> Dan Listermann
>
Actual quote: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." - From Hamlet (III,
ii, 239)
The spot will never go away!!
Larry Combs
The Gar Hole Brewery
LA (Lower Arkansas)
Mike D' Brewer
Brian Lundeen <blun...@spam.rrc.mb.ca> wrote in message
news:a9n7di$ncl$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
> say that her over the top outbursts remind me of a quote from Hamlet: The
> lady doth protest too much, methinks.
>
Or, to quote my kids, "He who smelt it, dealt it". ;-)
Mike
Dan Listermann
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
"Larry Combs" <com...@arkansas.net> wrote in message
news:3CBF2BE1...@arkansas.net...
JPullum127
had no problem and will prob order again. (i like that czech malt!)
BrewBeerNotBud
I guess I must be a gifted psychic "bigot" then! I wasn't even aware
that there was a woman involved in this business until reading replies
to his/her post of the original post. My brief dealings with this
company has invovlved only male employees.
But if I were to use your form of logic, I must come to the conclusion
that Lynn is a "bigot", because she only trashes "male"
complainers!<g>
Gulftracker
no respect towards Lynne as a woman or as a person. And when I read Lynne's
message, I understood her to be focusing her retaliation on those few as
well. I believe for the most part they are a bunch of 16 year old trolls
using mama's computer to get their thrills. The worst of em use name's I've
never seen on this forum before.
And your right Brian, Jack has received a lot of heat here, but IMHO he is
still shown 10 times the respect as shown by the few cowards towards Lynne.
And now that I've slept on it, I realize I'm must be the bigot cause while I
think Jack *is* an asshole ;-), I would never say that publicly of any women
not even joking... Must be that Southern upbringing to defend the honor of a
lady or something.
Actually I respect Jack and the strong stance he takes defending his
products. Many see it for what it is and aren't offended by it. But many of
the same people will view it differently when it comes from a lady as I saw
with the last wave of the grain mill wars.
Anyway I've wasted enough of this forums time defending someone who
obviously can take care of herself. So why don't we agree to disagree and
get back to talking beer and bashing Jack!.....
--
Bill
http://home.swbell.net/bufkin
Alvin, TX
"Brian Lundeen" <blun...@spam.rrc.mb.ca> wrote in message
news:a9n7di$ncl$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
>
BrewBeerNotBud
> I stand by my comments. They were directed towards the few bigots that show
> no respect towards Lynne as a woman or as a person. And when I read Lynne's
> message, I understood her to be focusing her retaliation on those few as
> well. I believe for the most part they are a bunch of 16 year old trolls
> using mama's computer to get their thrills. The worst of em use name's I've
> never seen on this forum before.
>
consider "mature", your next response will probably be something about
16
year old homophobic taliban trolls...right?
Mike D' Brewer
> I stand by my comments. They were directed towards the few bigots that
show
> no respect towards Lynne as a woman or as a person.
You earn respect. She hasn't earned mine. The comments I've made, and seen
made by others have nothing to do with her sex. They have to do with how
she treats her customers, former customers, and anyone who *dares* make a
comment she finds disagreeable.
I'll tell you quite honestly, I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks of
her, her business or her style. I know how *I* feel, and that's what I've
shared here.
>And when I read Lynne's
> message, I understood her to be focusing her retaliation on those few as
> well. I believe for the most part they are a bunch of 16 year old trolls
> using mama's computer to get their thrills. The worst of em use name's
I've
> never seen on this forum before.
I'd suggest you read a little closer, because most of the folks are regular
contributors - which is NOT something you can say about Lynne.
>
> And your right Brian, Jack has received a lot of heat here, but IMHO he is
> still shown 10 times the respect as shown by the few cowards towards
Lynne.
> And now that I've slept on it, I realize I'm must be the bigot cause while
I
> think Jack *is* an asshole ;-), I would never say that publicly of any
women
> not even joking... Must be that Southern upbringing to defend the honor of
a
> lady or something.
>
> Actually I respect Jack and the strong stance he takes defending his
> products. Many see it for what it is and aren't offended by it. But many
of
> the same people will view it differently when it comes from a lady as I
saw
> with the last wave of the grain mill wars.
Again, I don't care about the sex of the person, I care about how they treat
people. Jack's comments absolutely caught me by surprise, and I personally
don't think I'd buy from him because of it.
Mike
Gulftracker
> consider "mature", your next response will probably be something about
> 16 year old homophobic taliban trolls...right?
I didn't say anyone was being mature or immature. But I'll let everyone's
words speak for themselves. I have nothing against 16 year olds, homosexuals
or even trolls for that matter. I judge people by there actions and words
not by their title. And I believe Lynne used the word Taliban to compare the
few name caller's to bullies and cowards not to say they are equal to the
terrorist. I mean come on people.
And I wasn't defending everything Lynne said. In fact I stated clearly I
thought in was overkill. What I was doing and will continue to do is speak
out against anyone that steps over that invisible line of decency. I have
nothing against disagreements or heated arguments, but when it descends to
the level of vulgar name calling I'm not gonna just sit on the sideline and
watch.
This public forum with men and women of all ages, not a man's bar room. Now
I've been guilty myself of a few comments here that I latter realized were
not appropriate so I give people a lot of leeway. Maybe we are a little
backwards here in Texas because if a woman is being talked to in pulbic in
that manner, they would be escorted to the parking lot for a lesson in the
finer points of good manners. :-)
Now if you don't mind I'll step off my soapbox and simple ask everyone to
remember who is in the room, fight fair and no blows below the belt...
--
Bill
http://home.swbell.net/bufkin
Alvin, TX
"BrewBeerNotBud" <brewi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e63d5769.02041...@posting.google.com...
Gulftracker
Your right Mike, people have to earn respect. And if your not one of the
ones that resort to vulgar name calling then you and I don't have a problem.
> I'd suggest you read a little closer, because most of the folks are
regular
> contributors - which is NOT something you can say about Lynne.
Ok, I re-read her post and did see that she refered to a few of the regulars
here. And I'm not about to step into the line of fire on that one. You guys
have at it....that is until vulgar names or low blows are thrown, then this
dumb redneck will stick his neck out again......;-)
--
Bill
http://home.swbell.net/bufkin
Alvin, TX
"Mike D' Brewer" <sarge_N...@sbabootcamp.com> wrote in message
news:078w8.76691$G72.56234@sccrnsc01...
>
> Gulftracker <gulft...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8GVv8.1547$SB4.64...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> > I stand by my comments. They were directed towards the few bigots that
> show
> > no respect towards Lynne as a woman or as a person.
>
> You earn respect. She hasn't earned mine. The comments I've made, and
seen
> made by others have nothing to do with her sex. They have to do with how
> she treats her customers, former customers, and anyone who *dares* make a
> comment she finds disagreeable.
>
> I'll tell you quite honestly, I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks
of
> her, her business or her style. I know how *I* feel, and that's what I've
> shared here.
>
> >And when I read Lynne's
> > message, I understood her to be focusing her retaliation on those few as
> > well. I believe for the most part they are a bunch of 16 year old trolls
> > using mama's computer to get their thrills. The worst of em use name's
> I've
> > never seen on this forum before.
>
>
> >
BrewBeerNotBud
> > You earn respect. She hasn't earned mine.
>
> Your right Mike, people have to earn respect. And if your not one of the
> ones that resort to vulgar name calling then you and I don't have a problem.
>
> > I'd suggest you read a little closer, because most of the folks are
> regular
> > contributors - which is NOT something you can say about Lynne.
>
> Ok, I re-read her post and did see that she refered to a few of the regulars
> here. And I'm not about to step into the line of fire on that one. You guys
> have at it....that is until vulgar names or low blows are thrown, then this
> dumb redneck will stick his neck out again......;-)
>
> --
> Bill
> http://home.swbell.net/bufkin
> Alvin, TX
Just to be on the safe side, I re-read the post "My issue with St.
Pat". This was the original thread that Lynn directed her off-color
remarks and name-calling to. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that thread
contains absolutely no "vulgar names" or "low blows".
I am also a gentleman, and when a lady justly needs defending, I'm
there. But it seems Lynn stopped being a lady when she blasted the
people in that thread without just cause. And it also seems that she
started the "vulgar names" and low blows at the beginning of THIS
thread.
But it appears that even Lynn realizes that she may have made an error
in judgement, so I don't think we need to defend someone that made a
mistake in the heat of anger. You reap what you sow.
Gulftracker
> Pat". This was the original thread that Lynn directed her off-color
> remarks and name-calling to. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that thread
> contains absolutely no "vulgar names" or "low blows".
Your right, there were none in *that* thread. The posts that got under my
skin were scattered throughout the ng and while they never refered to Lynne
directly, they left no dought who they were meant for. And I'm sure this
lead up to the bomb that was dropped.
> And it also seems that she started the "vulgar names" and low
> blows at the beginning of THIS thread.
Vulgar names I didn't see. The low blow's I'll give ya. Today I did some
research on google and turned up some interestings facts. I found post going
back to '94 using the words "PMS", "bitch", "brewnazi" and worse describing
Lynne. Same pattern, same BS as now. Wheather or not she started it I don't
know and I don't care.
But the fact is I jumped in the dogpile to save the day before I knew all
the facts. After learning more about the history of these debates I will
refrain in the future. This subject has been beat to death more than the
Israeli vs. Palestine conflict. And neither can be solved in the context of
this forum. Sooo I'm going to have a beer and relax...
I'll give you the last word but am signing off this thread......
--
Bill
http://home.swbell.net/bufkin
Alvin, TX
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the ones I can;
And the wisdom to keep my friggin mouth shut 'til all the facts are in.....
Aaaamen ;-)
Craft Brewer
> regarding St. Pats service on this forum or HBD EVER. That was the
> guy who had 2 broken cobalt beer blue bottles in a $300 order, called
> and reported it to an employee, and nothing happened for a year. When
> I saw the post, I publicly apologized, called him and fixed the
> problem.
So you are saying that you've only made one unresolved mistake ever?
That seems unlikely.
My main complaint is the preparation for delivery. When I shopped
there I was often told my order had been shipped 'today' and then
called the next day and told it would go out 'today'. Often times I
would apparently be lied to, and would wait much longer for St.Pats
orders than other shops, so I shop elsewhere now.
I like www.grapeandgranary.com for their great service and prices - a
first class shop that does not publicly chastize its customers, and
always ships out SAME DAY in my experience, or next day if I order
late.
Lynne is always writing that 'St.Pats was the first homebrew shop to
offer grain scoops' the 'first homebrew shop to bend stainless
tubing', the 'first homebrew shop to sell yeast,' etc etc. ad nauseum.
Well, chances are if you are big on shipping times or a personable and
customer service oriented attitude, St.Pats will be the 'first
homebrew shop to lose your business.'
T.K.
PS - for Lynne
no, im not giving you my name. You will say that I am hiding the
facts, but the fact is, I don't want to jeopardize future sponsorships
for competitions. Just know that one day I will enjoy your free
products and laugh, I just hope its not that Budvar crap. That is, if
you actually go through with a committment to a competition, and not
back out like you did when hosting the AHA regional.
Felix
On 22 Apr 2002 22:41:58 -0700, craft_b...@hotmail.com (Craft
Notaknob
read.news.verio.net>...
> Maybe she wouldn't feel so persecuted if brewers would offer their bad
> experiences with, say, Williams, Northern, or B3. I've no such stories to
> share, but who knows, maybe someone does....
>
>
I'll say. B3 took my order over the web on a Saturday and I had to wait
until FRIDAY before my order showed up. Go figure, Californa to Germany
in 5 days! The jerks, I figure I wasted my money buying the blue ice.
FWIW, All of my orders from Stpats have been shipped on/about the same
schedule. Ohne problem.
nk 'weizen with white labs'
--
Everyday, in everyway, I'm getting better and better
Dan Listermann
news:MPG.1731322fd...@news.t-online.de...
> Ohne problem.
Ein bisschen Deutsch, ya?
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
> nospams...@tymewyse.com wrote in message <8gqu8.16254$A%3.139207@ord-
> read.news.verio.net>...
> > Maybe she wouldn't feel so persecuted if brewers would offer their bad
> > experiences with, say, Williams, Northern, or B3. I've no such stories
to
> > share, but who knows, maybe someone does....
> >
> >
> I'll say. B3 took my order over the web on a Saturday and I had to wait
> until FRIDAY before my order showed up. Go figure, Californa to Germany
> in 5 days! The jerks, I figure I wasted my money buying the blue ice.
>
> FWIW, All of my orders from Stpats have been shipped on/about the same
> schedule. >
Dan Listermann
--
Dan Listermann
Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
"Dan Listermann" <d...@listermann.com> wrote in message
news:uce97rb...@corp.supernews.com...
Richard E. Hawkins
Dan Listermann <d...@listermann.com> top-posted.
>"Ya?" It has been a long time since I wrote in German. . . "Ja?"
Dan, Dan, Dan. Of all the people to be top-posting . . .
Anyway it's German. when in doubt, throw in a bunch of consonants and
run a couple of words together.
If you go east of germany, in addition to adding consonants, you must
rmv vwls.
hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
doc...@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \