rusty keggle
Will Trice
I have an opportunity to make a trade for a keggle. When I took a look
at it, the top 6 inches of the inside of the keggle were REALLY rusted.
Like caked on, just pulled that anchor from under the sea where it sat
for 100 years, rusted. Not rusted through the wall of the keggle,
though. Below the rust line, the keg liner seemed to be in good shape.
I initially rejected it, but the dude on the other end of the trade
called me back and said that he was able to clean the rust out. I
haven't seen it cleaned up yet, but I'm looking for opinions, can this
kind of damage be reversed on the keggle interior? What should I be
looking for when I re-examine it?
FWIW, this is a half barrel Sanke keg with the top cut completely out
and ground all the way to the side of the keg (no lip). No ports or
spigots have been drilled.
TIA!
-Will
will dot trice at comcast dot net
Tom Biasi
"Will Trice" <m...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:ho5g7c$cra$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Those kegs are stainless, there should be no rust.
Tom
Dan Logcher
You can get rust on stainless steel, I've had many corney
kegs with scratches that result in rust. I use Barkeeper's Friend
and a scotch brite spounge to remove rust spots.
--
Dan
John Bleichert
Stainless steel rusts just fine if the passivation layer has been
injured or eroded. They can be cleaned and re-passivated though with
an acid solution, I believe.
--
-----------------------------------------------
The heat from below can burn your eyes out!!
Tom Biasi
"Dan Logcher" <dlogcher*xspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4ba64b6d$0$492$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
consider myself educated a little more on the subject.:-)
alebrewer
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not just any acid, it has to be an oxidizing acid, such as nitric
acid. Nasty stuff and very dangerous if you don't know what you are
doing.
I would be more interested as to why it rusted, since with 304
Stainless Steel (the grade typcially used for beer kegs), exposure to
most environments will not result in rusting, particularly as
described in the OP
> >> ... the top 6 inches of the inside of the keggle were REALLY rusted. Like
> >> caked on, just pulled that anchor from under the sea where it sat for 100
> >> years, rusted.
This sounds like it was partially filled with a corrosive liquid
(upside down) for some time. I'm guessing that it sat upside down in
a bleach solution for an extended period, which is why they cut the
entire top off instead of just making a large hole in the top. It can
be salvaged, but I wouldn't want it. You'd have to make sure that
every bit of rust is gone (the rust will contain chlorides, which will
continue to cause rusting), like sand blasting. Then, as John
mentions, the surface would have to be re-passivated to prevent the
rust from re-forming. The sand blasted surface is likely pitted,
which would be difficult to clean, if used as a kettle.
With the entire top cut off, it wouldn't have any handles. How would
you pick it up?
ab
Will Trice
> I would be more interested as to why it rusted, since with 304
> Stainless Steel (the grade typcially used for beer kegs), exposure to
> most environments will not result in rusting, particularly as
> described in the OP
Me, too. I still haven't accepted the deal because I'm afraid it'll
just rust up again.
> With the entire top cut off, it wouldn't have any handles. How would
> you pick it up?
It still has the handles - just the top of the pressure cylinder has
been cut out (like on all keggles) but the lip that normally remains has
been ground to the side wall of the keg. In fact in one place it was
ground too far resulting in a small hole in the keg wall - the hole is
at the level of the handles so I didn't think that was actually a big deal.
There is obvious scoring/scratching where it rusted (visible now that
the rust has been removed).
Note that this has purportedly been used as a brewing kettle in the
past. I'll email the owner and see if he can tell me what caused the
rusting in the first place. Would this kind of damage occur if the
keggle was stored for a long period full of water? I could imagine that
the keggle might rust at the water/air interface and that interface
would move downwards as the water evaporated. Just speculating here.
Thanks to everyone for the info I've received so far.
Will Trice
> I'll email the owner and see if he can tell me what caused the
> rusting in the first place.
Owner says it was full of chlorine solution for one week to sanitize it
preparation for getting rid of it.
Would this seriously need to be sandblasted to keep it from rusting again?
John Bleichert
It's toasted unless you want to re-passivate it. Or scrub the hell out
of it alot.
Just my 0.02 USD.
Good luck!
JB
alebrewer
You will have to get rid of every bit of rust. Every speck. Then you
will have to wash it very well and very often. It will eventually re-
passivate on it own, but it will take a while and until it does, it
will continue to rust. You also have to get rid of any chlorides that
may still be hanging around. Wash, rinse, wash, rinse, repeat,
repeat. If there are pits, you have an even worse problem.
I'd walk away from it. I am fairly knowledgeable on metals and even
folks that aren't know not to use chlorine bleach on stainless,
particularly for long exposure times. The guy who had it was an
idiot. For you chemistry geeks, the chloride ions form a complex with
the chromium oxide (which gives the stainless its rust resistant
quality) and this allows oxygen and water to attack the iron, forming
rust. It can be difficult to get rid of all the chloride,
particularly with long exposure times. It pits, which can have a
snowball effect; the presence of a pit makes the pitting worse. There
are plenty of ways to clean stainless without using bleach.
If you were wondering, Iodine (Iodophor) is not good, either. It just
isn't as bad, but long exposure to iodophor will also rust stainless.
If it is just so good of a deal you can't walk away from, you can try
scotch brite and elbow grease, lots of soap and water, and lots of
rinsing. When you think it's clean, wash it again. Rinse it well and
let it dry. Look at in a day. If you see any rust, wash and rinse
some more. If no rust, fill with water (to the top, past where the
rust formed) and let it sit for a day. See if any rust, if so, wash
and rinse some more. If no rust, empty and let it sit dry for a few
days. Then fill with water again, but let it sit for a couple of
days. Continue until you can let it sit for a week without forming
any rust. If you can to that, you should be OK.
Good Luck.
ab
Steve Bonine
> I'd walk away from it.
Me, too.
barn...@ureach.com
of bleach and water to remove midew/mold and never noticed any pitting
or rust. Course, I wouldn't soak the inside of a keg in bleach. But, I
am skeptical that one week in dilute bleach would cause rust.
Roger
Dan Logcher
In diluted for its probably not going to kill the keg in a few days, but
who knows how strong the solution was. I say, never use bleach on stainless
steel. Why would you need to? There are so many other products that do
a better job on stainless. Why would you need to use bleach?
--
Dan
Bob F
I had a stainless hottub filter that lasted 15 or more years filled with
chlorinated water before it finally developed leaks where it pitted. Obviously
stainless can survive some long term chlorine exposure.
Dan Logcher
It may depend on the type of stainless steel and the concentration of
chlorine bleach. Kegs, at least corneys, are 304 stainless.
--
Dan
barn...@ureach.com
bleach is cheap, and readily available. That's why I use it to clean
outside of kegs and to sterilize glassware.
John Bleichert
In materials science class in engineering school we were told to never,
ever use chlorine bleach on stainless school. In brewing school we
were taught to never, ever use chlorine bleach on stainless
steel. That's good enough for me.
Also, whether you see rust or leaks or not, chlorine bleach *is*
pitting stainless steel. So if you're using it as a microbiocide
you're only creating better places for the little beasties to hide (in
the pits).
As someone said, there are far better solutions. Oxyclean will do a far
better job on the outside of a keg, anyway.
Good luck!!
JB
alebrewer
> because bleach kills bacteria and mold without needing to scrub,
No, it doesn't. You still have to scrub. Bleach won't kill anything
that is hiding under dirt or other gunk.
> bleach is cheap, and readily available. That's why I use it to clean
> outside of kegs and to sterilize glassware.
Two things wrong here. First, bleach doesn't clean. Soap and water
do a much better job of cleaning. Just a high pressure hose spray
will do a better job of cleaning hard surfaces than bleach. Second,
bleach does not sterilize. It can be used to sanitize, but it will
not sterilize. It won't even sanitize if the surfaces aren't cleaned
first. Cleaning with soap and water and allowing to stay dry for
several hours will sanitize, too, and is even cheaper than bleach.
Maybe you have used bleach on the outside of your kegs and not had a
problem. That doesn't make it safe. I've known people that have
smoked cigarettes while pumping gas.
Using bleach on stainless steel is a bad idea. What makes it worse is
when its used and not even needed. Neither a brew kettle or the
outside of a keg really need to be sanitized so the bleach doesn't
even help, only hurts.
ab