Explaining good vs. cheap lampwork

[Lee S. Billings]

This came up, briefly, in Tink's art show thread -- but it's something a lot of
us could use. How *does* one explain, briefly and politely but clearly, the
difference between high-quality artisan lampwork beads and the cheap imported
mass-produced Indian stuff?

Celine

--
Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

[Cheri2Star]

>he
>difference between high-quality artisan lampwork beads and the cheap imported
>
>mass-produced Indian stuff?

I think you just did. <G>
Cheri
(Bubbee to Emily and Nathan)

[Kathy N-V]

in article b7cn69$l91$5...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net, Lee S. Billings wrote on
4/13/03 6:09 PM:

> This came up, briefly, in Tink's art show thread -- but it's something a lot
> of
> us could use. How *does* one explain, briefly and politely but clearly, the
> difference between high-quality artisan lampwork beads and the cheap imported
> mass-produced Indian stuff?
>

A couple of things, not in any particular order:

* quality of glass: Artisan lampworkers are very fussy about the glass rods
they use to make their product. They are careful to use glass rods that are
compatible, melt correctly, and doesn't change into undesirable colors when
heated. Some glass gets a scum on it when heated, and needs to be carefully
"peeled" before it is applied to a bead. Obviously Indian lampworkers,
toiling for pennies a bead or less, cannot be this choosy about which glass
they use. If they are working in a factory instead of their homes as a
cottage industry, they use what their employer provides: an employer who
can sell beads made of cheap glass isn't likely to substitute expensive
glass and minimize his profit.

* Bead Release: for the general public, this is the dead giveaway between a
mass-produced Indian bead and a quality artisan bead. Lampwork beads are
produced on a mandrel, a metal rod something like a knitting needle. These
metal rods are dipped in a liquid clay solution, which is allowed to dry
before the artist makes a bead. Otherwise the molten glass will stick to
the metal rod forever. Artisan beadmakers carefully clean out the dried
clay from the inside of their finished beads before offering them for sale.
Piecework beadmakers don't. This is totally obvious to the buyer by looking
at the hole in the bead - if it's filled with white powdery stuff, it's mass
produced beadwork.

* Holes: As jewelry artisans, the sharp edge of a bead cutting our
stringing material can make us swear and jump up and down. It takes
experience, training and motivation to make a bead that has a nice smooth
hole that won't damage even the most delicate stringing material.
Mass-produced beads aren't made with the same care as one at a time, thrown
away if not perfect, artisan lampwork beads. If you're darned lucky, the
hole in an Indian bead will be smooth, but it's far more likely that it
won't.

* Shape: Once you've looked at a few zillion beads, you'll notice that the
mass produced lampwork comes in just a few shapes, and any applied
decorations seem to just lie there on the surface, like lettering on a
birthday cake. Artisan lampwork comes in many more shapes, often pushing
the envelope of the artisan's imagination and the limits of working with
melted glass. Applied decorations are integrated into the piece, not just
lying there on top, waiting to be chipped off. Raised dots are slightly
wider where they attach to the main bead, and are consistent in size and
spacing (if that's part of the design)

A mass produced lampwork animal is usually very minimalist, with the fewest
details necessary to show what kind of animal it might be. Many of the
artisan lampwork animals I've seen are incredibly detailed, and show a
distinct "personality" in the face of the creature.

* Color: Mass produced lampwork comes in a very limited palette of colors,
with very few shades of any particular color. You might see a blue Indian
lampwork bead - but you won't find one with six different blues on the same
bead. I have seen very few purple Indian lampwork beads (if any), and none
in those gorgeous melting purples so popular in artisan sets.

* Sets: Artisans making lampwork beads have us, the hobby/high end jewelry
maker in mind, and often make sets with focal and side beads that match one
another exactly, even though each individual bead is different. I've never
seen a set like that in mass produced beads.

*Annealing: This is the first thing the artisan lampworkers bring up, and
the last thing I'll describe. Annealing is a process of heating the bead up
in a kiln and allowing it to cool very slowly, according to the properties
of the glass being used. It's fairly technical and very precise, and isn't
something I'd want to get into when talking to the general public. Suffice
to say, beads that are annealed are infinitely stronger than beads that are
allowed to cool in the open air, a bucket of sand, or even a crock pot full
of vermiculite. I've seen properly annealed beads bounced off a cement
floor with no visible damage, while a non annealed bead often shatters with
ordinary handling.

Kilns are expensive, and adding time and effort to mass produced beads
decreases the profits when selling. I've seen Indian lampwork beads
advertised as taking up to five hours each to make, and retailing at
US$2.00. Assuming that the retailer is making no profit whatsoever (hah!),
the factory producing the bead is getting a whole US$0.40/hour for making
that bead, including materials. With such tiny sums of money involved,
there is no motivation for mass producers of lampwork to even consider
adding kiln annealing to their beadmaking process.
----------

This isn't short, but it's how I separate the two types in my mind. If I
had to explain it to someone, this is what I'd tell them. I think that a
prospective buyer wants to know exactly why they should spend say, $100 for
a lampwork bead when they've seen quite pretty lampwork beads in the FMG
catalog for $2.

It's like the difference between "sofa size" hotel/motel art and an original
Monet. They're both paintings, and you might even consider them both to be
art, and maybe even one-of-a-kind art, but they're not even close to being
equivalent in value or beauty. (Except for those dogs playing poker.
That's brilliant. :-) )

Kathy N-V

--
''Expect trouble in your life, because it will catch up with you sooner or
later. Nobody escapes it. Trouble does not mean you are stupid or bad or
guilty of some wrongdoing; it simply means you are a member of the human
race. Remember it is not what happens to you that counts, but how you handle
it.'' Ann Landers

[Diana Curtis]

Thanks Kathy!
This is what I was trying to find out in my 'ignorance' thread. Ill be
interested to see the differences with my own eyes and at least now I have a
clue what to look for.
I like your analogy between mass produced prints and a real Monet. Its
similar to the discussion we have on the quilters newsgroup. Those people
who want a quilt but know nothing about what goes into a well made one will
be happy with a mass produced one from a chain store at a cost of 50 dollars
or less. Someone who knows what quality looks and feels like will either
make their own or buy a good one from an artisan.
Diana

"Kathy N-V" <kathyn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BABF6B17.44C6D%kathyn...@hotmail.com...

[Steve & Susan Wright]

One thing not mentioned is also the simple quality of a good craftsman vs
someone that is not as skilled or as demanding of themselves. There is alot
of poor quality artist made lampwork out there and you must watch for that
using Kathy's guidelines.

Susan W

"Diana Curtis" <mdcu...@baldwin-garbage-telecom.net> wrote in message
news:zAmma.1132$f97....@reggie.win.bright.net...

[Dr. Sooz]

>How *does* one explain, briefly and politely but clearly, the
>difference between high-quality artisan lampwork beads and the cheap imported
>mass-produced Indian stuff?

One idea -- have an example of both kinds of bead, side by side. Oh, and have
a broken cheapie there as well. The difference should be obvious to all but
the blind!
~~
Sooz
-------
ESBC
Those who abandon their dreams will discourage yours.

[Dr. Sooz]

Man! Just print out Kathy N-V's explanation and frame it, set it on your sales
table, and you're set! Add a good bead and a cheap bead for looky-looing, and
that's it.

[Dr. Sooz]

> I like your analogy between mass produced prints and a real Monet.

Mass-produced *junk* art prints and a Monet..........Prints can be valuable and
beautiful.

[Dr. Sooz]

>Those people
>who want a quilt but know nothing about what goes into a well made one will
>be happy with a mass produced one from a chain store at a cost of 50 dollars
>or less. Someone who knows what quality looks and feels like will either
>make their own or buy a good one from an artisan.
>Diana

Where can one buy a good handmade quilt? I keep finding suppliers-to-quilters,
and wholesale quilt sellers, but nothing in between with any quality (i.e., not
mass-produced). Help me, Diana!

[Deborah]

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message > Where can one buy a

good handmade quilt? I keep finding suppliers-to-quilters, and wholesale
quilt sellers, but nothing in between with any quality (i.e., not
mass-produced). Help me, Diana!
> ~~
> Sooz

Hi Sooz,
ok...I'm not Diana, but I have some suggestions for you finding good quilts
and quilters. Try going to quilt fabric shops in your area. Avoid the chain
fabric stores. (It's like going to Michaels for fine beads....ain't gonna
happen.)

Here's a link to quilter info in your area:
The San Francisco Quilt Guild:
http://www.sfqg.org/index.html

And you may find a quilter here:
http://quiltart.com/links.html

Studio Art Quilts Association:
http://www.saqa.com/

Good luck!

All the best,
Deborah

[Christina Peterson]

Actually, what came to my mind from that analogy was the difference between
the original "pot-boiler" paintings, and an artist's painting.

Sure they are both hand painted using oil paints, but that's about the
extent of the similarity. The materials are of a different quality. But
the difference starts even before you get to the material. With
"pot-boilers" you just fill in the blanks, you paint by number. You have a
concept or look (flowers on a bowl, or trees on a hillside, eg) and then
include the colors of the couch, walls etc. There's very little room for
imagination, or even time to think. There is no personalization, or bits of
personal meaning. And the portrayals are even stylized to suit a specific
audience's expectations.

Compare that to student art at a college. It's personal, it's intentional,
it's imaginative. It speaks, and has been designed and executed with skill.
As they say, with intention and attention. And then think in terms of
undergrad work, and post grad work. And then the work of a master.

Tina

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030414134839...@mb-fp.aol.com...

[Arondelle]

Deborah wrote:

> Hi Sooz,
> ok...I'm not Diana, but I have some suggestions for you finding good quilts
> and quilters. Try going to quilt fabric shops in your area. Avoid the chain
> fabric stores. (It's like going to Michaels for fine beads....ain't gonna
> happen.)
>
> Here's a link to quilter info in your area:
> The San Francisco Quilt Guild:
> http://www.sfqg.org/index.html
>
> And you may find a quilter here:
> http://quiltart.com/links.html
>
> Studio Art Quilts Association:
> http://www.saqa.com/

I second Deborah's notion. :-)

If you're ever in the New England area, you can visit Keepsake Quilting
in Center Harbor, NH at the north end of Lake Winniesaukee
(http://www.keepsakequilting.com). Not only do they have a large
assortment of handmade quilts (being sold on commission for the
artists), but they also sponsor a quarterly competition and display the
entries in the store. It's a sight to behold!

Oh, yeah. They also have the most comprehensive collection of cotton
fabrics for sale that I've ever seen. I never can get out of there
without spending $100 or so. :-) One of these days I'll finish one of
my quilting projects -- right after I run out of beading ideas.

I should live so long! :-D

Arondelle
--
===========================================================
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is
better than not to think at all."

"To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing."

(attributed to Hypatia of Alexandria)
===========================================================

Visit Arondelle's Dream Worlds at:
http://www.arondelle.com

[Dr. Sooz]

Very cool, Deborah. There are some quilting stores around here, I've seen them
as I drive by. Thank you!

>ok...I'm not Diana, but I have some suggestions for you finding good quilts
>and quilters. Try going to quilt fabric shops in your area. Avoid the chain
>fabric stores. (It's like going to Michaels for fine beads....ain't gonna
>happen.)
>
>Here's a link to quilter info in your area:
>The San Francisco Quilt Guild:
>http://www.sfqg.org/index.html
>
>And you may find a quilter here:
>http://quiltart.com/links.html
>
>Studio Art Quilts Association:
>http://www.saqa.com/
>
>Good luck!

[Kathy N-V]

in article v9m0h1d...@corp.supernews.com, Christina Peterson wrote on
4/14/03 2:44 PM:

> Actually, what came to my mind from that analogy was the difference between
> the original "pot-boiler" paintings, and an artist's painting.
>

That's exactly what I meant. Around here they have "Hotel/Motel Art Sales"
which promote "real oil paintings" on sofa-size (sic) canvases. Yeah, I pick
artwork based on how well it looks against my sofa. (sarcasm off)

Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with these paintings, but calling them
art is a stretch. There's no creativity, no pushing the envelope, and I've
never seen an example of this kind of painting that "speaks" to me.

> Compare that to student art at a college. It's personal, it's intentional,
> it's imaginative. It speaks, and has been designed and executed with skill.
> As they say, with intention and attention. And then think in terms of
> undergrad work, and post grad work. And then the work of a master.

Great analogy. I've seen a lot of student art, and even the post poorly
executed pieces have something to say. They aren't someone else's idea,
churned out by the hundreds to go with a sofa.

I've also seen a lot of work by the masters. Those are the ones that grab
your heart and don't let go. They have a lot more in common with student art
than hotel/motel art - to me, the difference between student art and a
masterpiece isn't the level of emotion, it's the level of proficiency and
skill with the material.

[Dr. Sooz]

>That's exactly what I meant. Around here they have "Hotel/Motel Art Sales"
>which promote "real oil paintings" on sofa-size (sic) canvases. Yeah, I pick
>artwork based on how well it looks against my sofa. (sarcasm off)

Haw! Hey, I collect paint-by-number paintings of dogs from the Fifties (and
earlier) -- they're 100 times better than those sofa-sized bits of dreck!

[Carol in SLC]

>Hey, I collect paint-by-number paintings of dogs from the Fifties<

Hey, my great grandma painted tons of these, LOL (although hers were mainly
outdoor scenes). Some were pretty darn good - she had a wonderful eye for
color and often took license with it!!

Carol in SLC
http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=63875

[Laurie]

I've been a quilt looker all my life. and

http://www.southernhighlandguild.org/

this is the place for some of the country's best quilts.

My personal favorite (in the early 1990'w) was a pieced white-white that was
king-sized and breathtaking.... They sold it before I could save up the
more-than-reasonable $700 asking price.
Life is to be enjoyed, not endured! Attitude makes it happen.

[Dr. Sooz]

HEY CAROL! Are you willing to sell any of them?!??!?!?! :-D

>Hey, my great grandma painted tons of these, LOL (although hers were mainly
>outdoor scenes). Some were pretty darn good - she had a wonderful eye for
>color and often took license with it!!
>
>Carol in SLC

[Carol in SLC]

> Are you willing to sell any of them?!??!?!?!<

LOL - mom has 'em, and knowing her sentimental streak, I doubt she would part
with any of 'em!!

[Diana Curtis]

All the options the others gave you are great advice, and better than I
could give you since I really didnt have a clue where one buys real, quality
quilts. I would have just suggested that you learn to quilt! LOL
You could try bribing me. I might be able to get a top done for you in oh
say.. three years. Then it would be up to you to find someone to quilt it
for you.
Lets talk.
;-)
Diana

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030414135025...@mb-fp.aol.com...

[Christina Peterson]

That reminds me. There's a quilters Guild in town here. And there easiest
place to get hold of them, and also to see samples of work, is at the
privately owned vacuum and sewing machine shop.

Tina

"Deborah" <debora...@comcast.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:xeCdneStBOv...@comcast.com...

[Cheryl]

Where can one buy a good handmade quilt? I keep finding suppliers-to-quilters,
and wholesale quilt sellers, but nothing in between with any quality (i.e., not
mass-produced). Help me, Diana!>

SOOZ
try checking around at the local county fair, during fair time.

Also- I just bought six tickets to a beautiful quilt made by a local society -
profits to Breast Cancer research..... keep your eye open for those...
If you have a local QUILTING STORE
ask around if there are any quilt groups, or quilters, that sell their works.
Cheryl of <A HREF="http://www.dragonbeads.com"> DRAGON BEADS </A>
Flameworked beads and glass
http://www.dragonbeads.com/

[Steve & Susan Wright]

One thing that really gets me is that this is the method that Thomas Kincaid
uses to produce "his" paintings and people pay big money for something "he
did". Most people outside the art world don't realize that those lights
aren't ususally painted by his hand unless you are willing to pay over 30 K.
He is just one big manufacturer and a fantastic markerter. His gallery
opened here and the business paper had an article on his work and explained
all the levels of his paintings from the print up to the master copy and how
much work he did on each level after the master was made to copy/print from.
Interesting, which I still had it.

Susan W

"Christina Peterson" <tinapetr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:v9m0h1d...@corp.supernews.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

> I would have just suggested that you learn to quilt!

Oh dear GOD -- all I need is one more artform! >screaming and running away<

[Dr. Sooz]

>I might be able to get a top done for you in oh
>say.. three years. Then it would be up to you to find someone to quilt it
>for you.
>Lets talk.

Haw haw haw!!

[Dr. Sooz]

Oh baby, I'm not going to the county fair. It would kill me.

>try checking around at the local county fair, during fair time.

[Mary Rurup]

My mother makes quilts. She used to make *beautiful* hand-done quilts with
doing it by lap-quilting without a frame...I think now, she does it by
machine.

She sells her quilt tops on eBay, but doesn't have any up currently. If you
wish to see her past auctions, it's here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19162&item=3123435160

My sister does the sales for her, because she can't even double click a
mouse (that's their running joke...LOL!). I know that she can make it into
a quilt for you, no problem...I do not know how much.

I think my mother severely underprices her items, but that's me (and this is
the person who underprices her jewelry speaking!!! LOL!).

If you have a special order, or anything talk to her...I know she can at
least see if she has a pattern or anything...

She lives in Sapulpa, Ok, which is outside of Tulsa, if that helps.

Just tell Lynn (the person that will read the email) that "the pest" sent
her (her sister...LOL!).

Mary

--
Joy multiplies when it is shared among friends, but grief diminishes with
every division. That is life.
Drizzt Do'Urden (Exile - R.A. Salvatore)
================
MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More!
http://www.meijhanadesigns.com

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030414135025...@mb-fp.aol.com...

[Diana Curtis]

With the right quilt design you could use BEADS for embellishment.
See, its just an extention of an art form you already know!
LOL
Diana

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030415125721...@mb-ca.aol.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

Actually.....I read Quilting Arts magazine every issue, and am planning some
mini-quilts (I call them collages, but I know what they really are)......
http://www.quiltingarts.com/
I'm doomed.

>With the right quilt design you could use BEADS for embellishment.
>See, its just an extention of an art form you already know!
>LOL
>Diana

[Shirley Shone]

Diana, I have recently got the video of the presentation of the Enschede
Firework disaster quilt. I went to Holland for the presentation because
I had beaded the centre panel. It was with the help of Bart in Holland
that I got the video two years after the event. I am going to have it
transferred to a CD. Then I can make some copies and pass them on.
Shirley

In article <KhYma.1223$f97....@reggie.win.bright.net>, Diana Curtis
<mdcu...@baldwin-garbage-telecom.net> writes

--
Shirley Shone

[Arondelle]

Dr. Sooz wrote:

> Actually.....I read Quilting Arts magazine every issue, and am
> planning some mini-quilts (I call them collages, but I know what
> they really are)...... http://www.quiltingarts.com/ I'm doomed.

You're doomed, for sure. :o)

I collect beads the way I've collected quilt fabrics, and for the same
reasons. Gotta have a full palette of colors, doncha know, and how can
you resist beads/fabrics which are in your favorite themes. So, if you
collect beads, and get into quilting, you're probably going to
accumulate the Mother Of All Fabric Stashes, just like me.

Stash Story:
Most of the damage that the fire that burned us out of our apartment 4
years ago was in the corner of the dining room where I had my sewing and
crafting stuff. At 5:00p on the last day we were allowed into the
building to try to salvage stuff, I was standing in the ruins of the
dining room gazing mournfully at all my destroyed stuff. I noticed,
however the corner of a large, green Rubbermaid tote under a pile of rubble.

The fire marshall and town building inspector, who were shooing us out
of the building for the last time, came upon me then. I said: "I want
that tote!" So, the three of us dug through the (frozen) rubble and
freed the tote.

The tote was covered with soot and debris, and I didn't open it for 2
weeks: I was afraid of what I might find after all the work the
Professor and I had done to reclaim what we'd saved, only to have to
toss it out later.

Finally, I cleaned the outside of the tote and opened it. Lo, and
behold! The contents, some of my very favorite fabrics, had come
through the ordeal completely unscathed.

I wept, right there, and thanked the Goddess for sparing me these things.

Of course, as soon as we got the insurance money, I headed right out and
started to rebuild my stash.

Of course, when I started bead last year, I when into the same frenzied
stash building mode. Don't anyone tell the Professor how much I've
spent on beads in the past year. (And, there are some fabrics in the
Keepsake catalog that are calling my name, too.)

I'm doomed -- and hopeless!

[Diana Curtis]

That will be wonderful Shirley, Im sure there will be loads of RCTQers
(among others) who would love to see what love made.
Diana

"Shirley Shone" <shi...@allcrafts.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:NaXwNnBl...@allcrafts.demon.co.uk...

[Kandice Seeber]

That is interesting - the paintings are really beautiful, but of course
it....what's the right word here.... cheapens the experience for me knowing
that they are pretty much mass produced. I love the way they look though.
Can't help it. :)

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net
Helping Carol Auctions
http://snurl.com/nh8
"Steve & Susan Wright" <tum...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:w1Tma.24250$ey1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Christina Peterson]

That doesn't surprise me to learn. His work does have that high level pot
boiler/"collectible" feel to it. And I wouldn't expect to get a "real"
Kincaid (or other artist of his popularity) for less than $30K anyway.

Tina

"Steve & Susan Wright" <tum...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:w1Tma.24250$ey1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Dr. Sooz]

His stuff really reeks of mass production. They're not art. At best they're
cheesy illustration. His work makes my skin crawl, but then it's not really
his work, is it? I can't imagine paying $30K for a painting of his! Oh dear
dear dear.....

>> One thing that really gets me is that this is the method that Thomas
>Kincaid uses to produce "his" paintings and people pay big money for something
"he did". Most people outside the art world don't realize that those lights
> aren't ususally painted by his hand unless you are willing to pay over 30K.
> He is just one big manufacturer and a fantastic markerter. His gallery
> opened here and the business paper had an article on his work and
>explained all the levels of his paintings from the print up to the master copy
and
>how much work he did on each level after the master was made to copy/print
from.
> Interesting, which I still had it.

[Jalynne]

wooohoooo! another quilting convert...well not convert...but we'll get you
addicted eventually. It's payback for all the times you entice us to the
dark side of beading...right Diana? bwahahaha.
--
Jalynne
Queen Gypsy (snail mail available upon request)
see what i've been up to at www.100megsfree4.com/jalynne
or look at my layouts at
http://www.azurewave.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=212&cat=500&thumb=
1

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030415144044...@mb-ca.aol.com...

[Diana Curtis]

Shhhhhhhh.. our prey is very wary. We must use stealth and delicacy to
entice this one into our lair!
We could sneak a link to some beautiful hand dyes into the group, and say we
meant to post a beady link.... and then set the hook and reel her in! Ha!
Diana

"Jalynne" <craft...@quiltscrap.net> wrote in message
news:4e6na.25501$ey1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Steve & Susan Wright]

Sad thing is that you pay $600 or so for a mass produced work with a stamped
on the back" signature" according to the article. There are 6 or so levels
of his work from the print going up to the master, with stamped sig to
written sig to an actual storke painted by the master!

Susan W
"Christina Peterson" <tinapetr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:v9p42i5...@corp.supernews.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

Damn right......wary and even terrified when it comes to YOU two. :-P

>Shhhhhhhh.. our prey is very wary. We must use stealth and delicacy to
>entice this one into our lair!
>We could sneak a link to some beautiful hand dyes into the group, and say we
>meant to post a beady link.... and then set the hook and reel her in! Ha!
>Diana

[Diana Curtis]

Youre not the first to intimidated by the likes of me. Jalynne on the other
hand is innocent and sweet. Honest. Shes only corrupted me . ..oh.. three
four.. ok.. ten times. :-)
Art is art. You wouldnt let a change in medium scare you, would you?
You just dont seem like the type to scare easy. J... send her some scraps.
VEBG
Diana

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030416141425...@mb-m15.aol.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

Terror is not intimidation! And I'm only scared of the possibilities of Total
Art and Craft Annihilation that you present to me...... ;-)
Scraps?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

>Youre not the first to intimidated by the likes of me. Jalynne on the other
>hand is innocent and sweet. Honest. Shes only corrupted me . ..oh.. three
>four.. ok.. ten times. :-)
> Art is art. You wouldnt let a change in medium scare you, would you?
>You just dont seem like the type to scare easy. J... send her some scraps.

[Diana Curtis]

Jalynne, are you listening? We have her cornered. Watch her, she may bite.
Diana bwahahahahahaha

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030416184546...@mb-m25.aol.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

Mercury! Save meeeeeeeeeeee :-O

>Jalynne, are you listening? We have her cornered. Watch her, she may bite.
>Diana bwahahahahahaha

[Beth Erickson]

Hey, Sooz! Did you know that you can cover plaster cabs with fabric scraps,
laquer the fabric in place and make killer cabs to bead around? Or that you
can cover plain wooden beads with fabric scraps, especially the kind
quilters use????

Diana and Jalynne, did YOU know that????

b

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030416204651...@mb-m03.aol.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

Wow, cooool! ~~~Though I'd probably choose paper for that, since I have
**huge** archives of paper scraps (being a collage artist....) and almost no
fabric.

>Hey, Sooz! Did you know that you can cover plaster cabs with fabric scraps,
>laquer the fabric in place and make killer cabs to bead around? Or that you
>can cover plain wooden beads with fabric scraps, especially the kind
>quilters use????

[Jalynne]

Like Diana said, I can fix that. Please oh please send me your snail mail
addy?

Sorry I've been MIA, but I've been helping my neighbor clean her house. Her
dh has been in Kuwait for six months and is coming home this weekend. It's
a good excuse, i think...lol.

Anyway, Diana, I'm back, and ready to pounce...as soon as i know where to
send all this stuff to.

--
Jalynne
Queen Gypsy (snail mail available upon request)
see what i've been up to at www.100megsfree4.com/jalynne
or look at my layouts at
http://www.azurewave.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=212&cat=500&thumb=
1

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message
news:20030417012720...@mb-m19.aol.com...

[Jalynne]

I should...and i should encourage her to crazy quilt. What a wonderful way
to show off BEADS...hehehe.

me? sweet? ok, i'll give you that one, but innocent? you must have me
confused with someone else. hey, and as for corruption...it's all cas'
fault.

--
Jalynne
Queen Gypsy (snail mail available upon request)
see what i've been up to at www.100megsfree4.com/jalynne
or look at my layouts at
http://www.azurewave.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=212&cat=500&thumb=
1

"Diana Curtis" <mdcu...@baldwin-garbage-telecom.net> wrote in message
news:MBkna.27$Ut6...@reggie.win.bright.net...

[Jalynne]

ah, that's where we quilters have an advantage...all that soft fabric
protecting us from bites..hehehe.

--
Jalynne
Queen Gypsy (snail mail available upon request)
see what i've been up to at www.100megsfree4.com/jalynne
or look at my layouts at
http://www.azurewave.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=212&cat=500&thumb=
1

"Diana Curtis" <mdcu...@baldwin-garbage-telecom.net> wrote in message

news:rGlna.29$Ut6...@reggie.win.bright.net...

[Dr. Sooz]

Noooooooooo, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

>Like Diana said, I can fix that. Please oh please send me your snail mail
>addy?

[Diana Curtis]

Yep, knew it and yet when I set out to make some beads this week I chose to
use clay as fabric. I dont know how I can bead thru that, but if there is a
way I will find it.
As soon as my camera has batteries Ill post some pictures on my Yahoo site
for ya'll to peek at. They turned out so ... hmm ..well, I'll let you be the
judges. I love them. More are being made. Its an obsession. Sigh. Another
one.
You guys *are* evil.
Diana

"Beth Erickson" <pek...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:EQqna.517395$sf5.8...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...

[Diana Curtis]

I *can* send her snail addy to you. I would have to get her permission
first. But, if that fails, you can send to me and I will send it on. You
cant win Sooz. Youre up against the two Muskateers. We wont be happy until
we rule the crafting world.
Diana, feeling particularly evil this morning, what with no sleep cause of a
teething toddler.

"Jalynne" <craft...@quiltscrap.net> wrote in message

news:carna.28518$4P1.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Dr. Sooz]

Can you give the URL to your Yahoo site? Want to see everything.

>As soon as my camera has batteries Ill post some pictures on my Yahoo site
>for ya'll to peek at. They turned out so ... hmm ..well, I'll let you be the
>judges. I love them. More are being made. Its an obsession. Sigh. Another
>one.
>You guys *are* evil.
>Diana

[Dr. Sooz]

Another thing saved to Bead Notes! Sheesh, you guys are cooking this week.

>You don't need to bead through it. You can make a peyote "frame" for the cab
>
>and use it that way. I do that fairly often, and it looks wonderful. It
>also elicits a lot of "How on Earth did you _do_ that?" comments, which
>always makes me smile.
>
>Peyote frames for a cabochon are easy. String a length of beads that will
>make a ring slightly smaller than the diameter of the cab. Tie the ends of
>the thread together to make such a ring. After that, it's just tubular
~snipped 4BW~

[Diana Curtis]

Sure. There are no beady things there yet but browse around to your hearts
content. http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44
I have a lot of fun, frugally.
Diana

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030417143116...@mb-m18.aol.com...

[Kalera Stratton]

KATHY! You should copyright this as "freely distributable with proper
credit" so we can all put it on our websites!!!

I'M NOT KIDDING!

In article <BABF6B17.44C6D%kathyn...@hotmail.com>,
Kathy N-V <kathyn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> in article b7cn69$l91$5...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net, Lee S. Billings wrote on
> 4/13/03 6:09 PM:
>
> > This came up, briefly, in Tink's art show thread -- but it's something a
> > lot
> > of
> > us could use. How *does* one explain, briefly and politely but clearly, the
> > difference between high-quality artisan lampwork beads and the cheap
> > imported
> > mass-produced Indian stuff?
> >
>
> A couple of things, not in any particular order:
>
> * quality of glass: Artisan lampworkers are very fussy about the glass rods
> they use to make their product. They are careful to use glass rods that are
> compatible, melt correctly, and doesn't change into undesirable colors when
> heated. Some glass gets a scum on it when heated, and needs to be carefully
> "peeled" before it is applied to a bead. Obviously Indian lampworkers,
> toiling for pennies a bead or less, cannot be this choosy about which glass
> they use. If they are working in a factory instead of their homes as a
> cottage industry, they use what their employer provides: an employer who
> can sell beads made of cheap glass isn't likely to substitute expensive
> glass and minimize his profit.
>
> * Bead Release: for the general public, this is the dead giveaway between a
> mass-produced Indian bead and a quality artisan bead. Lampwork beads are
> produced on a mandrel, a metal rod something like a knitting needle. These
> metal rods are dipped in a liquid clay solution, which is allowed to dry
> before the artist makes a bead. Otherwise the molten glass will stick to
> the metal rod forever. Artisan beadmakers carefully clean out the dried
> clay from the inside of their finished beads before offering them for sale.
> Piecework beadmakers don't. This is totally obvious to the buyer by looking
> at the hole in the bead - if it's filled with white powdery stuff, it's mass
> produced beadwork.
>
> * Holes: As jewelry artisans, the sharp edge of a bead cutting our
> stringing material can make us swear and jump up and down. It takes
> experience, training and motivation to make a bead that has a nice smooth
> hole that won't damage even the most delicate stringing material.
> Mass-produced beads aren't made with the same care as one at a time, thrown
> away if not perfect, artisan lampwork beads. If you're darned lucky, the
> hole in an Indian bead will be smooth, but it's far more likely that it
> won't.
>
> * Shape: Once you've looked at a few zillion beads, you'll notice that the
> mass produced lampwork comes in just a few shapes, and any applied
> decorations seem to just lie there on the surface, like lettering on a
> birthday cake. Artisan lampwork comes in many more shapes, often pushing
> the envelope of the artisan's imagination and the limits of working with
> melted glass. Applied decorations are integrated into the piece, not just
> lying there on top, waiting to be chipped off. Raised dots are slightly
> wider where they attach to the main bead, and are consistent in size and
> spacing (if that's part of the design)
>
> A mass produced lampwork animal is usually very minimalist, with the fewest
> details necessary to show what kind of animal it might be. Many of the
> artisan lampwork animals I've seen are incredibly detailed, and show a
> distinct "personality" in the face of the creature.
>
> * Color: Mass produced lampwork comes in a very limited palette of colors,
> with very few shades of any particular color. You might see a blue Indian
> lampwork bead - but you won't find one with six different blues on the same
> bead. I have seen very few purple Indian lampwork beads (if any), and none
> in those gorgeous melting purples so popular in artisan sets.
>
> * Sets: Artisans making lampwork beads have us, the hobby/high end jewelry
> maker in mind, and often make sets with focal and side beads that match one
> another exactly, even though each individual bead is different. I've never
> seen a set like that in mass produced beads.
>
> *Annealing: This is the first thing the artisan lampworkers bring up, and
> the last thing I'll describe. Annealing is a process of heating the bead up
> in a kiln and allowing it to cool very slowly, according to the properties
> of the glass being used. It's fairly technical and very precise, and isn't
> something I'd want to get into when talking to the general public. Suffice
> to say, beads that are annealed are infinitely stronger than beads that are
> allowed to cool in the open air, a bucket of sand, or even a crock pot full
> of vermiculite. I've seen properly annealed beads bounced off a cement
> floor with no visible damage, while a non annealed bead often shatters with
> ordinary handling.
>
> Kilns are expensive, and adding time and effort to mass produced beads
> decreases the profits when selling. I've seen Indian lampwork beads
> advertised as taking up to five hours each to make, and retailing at
> US$2.00. Assuming that the retailer is making no profit whatsoever (hah!),
> the factory producing the bead is getting a whole US$0.40/hour for making
> that bead, including materials. With such tiny sums of money involved,
> there is no motivation for mass producers of lampwork to even consider
> adding kiln annealing to their beadmaking process.
> ----------
>
> This isn't short, but it's how I separate the two types in my mind. If I
> had to explain it to someone, this is what I'd tell them. I think that a
> prospective buyer wants to know exactly why they should spend say, $100 for
> a lampwork bead when they've seen quite pretty lampwork beads in the FMG
> catalog for $2.
>
> It's like the difference between "sofa size" hotel/motel art and an original
> Monet. They're both paintings, and you might even consider them both to be
> art, and maybe even one-of-a-kind art, but they're not even close to being
> equivalent in value or beauty. (Except for those dogs playing poker.
> That's brilliant. :-) )
>
> Kathy N-V

--
-Kalera
Mom of Sam, 3, Juliet, 5, and Ophelia, EDD 6/1/03
Wife of the incomparable Moxley of www.spaceplex.com

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <zAmma.1132$f97....@reggie.win.bright.net>,
"Diana Curtis" <mdcu...@baldwin-garbage-telecom.net> wrote:

> Thanks Kathy!
> This is what I was trying to find out in my 'ignorance' thread. Ill be
> interested to see the differences with my own eyes and at least now I have a
> clue what to look for.
> I like your analogy between mass produced prints and a real Monet. Its
> similar to the discussion we have on the quilters newsgroup. Those people
> who want a quilt but know nothing about what goes into a well made one will
> be happy with a mass produced one from a chain store at a cost of 50 dollars
> or less. Someone who knows what quality looks and feels like will either
> make their own or buy a good one from an artisan.
> Diana

It can be so hard to explain what makes one thing of a given type "good"
and another "cheap"; people who have a highly developed aesthetic sense
can usually tell the difference if allowed to handle one of each, but
even then they may not know how to articulate what they sense. Enter
Kathy...

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <KhYma.1223$f97....@reggie.win.bright.net>,
"Diana Curtis" <mdcu...@baldwin-garbage-telecom.net> wrote:

> With the right quilt design you could use BEADS for embellishment.
> See, its just an extention of an art form you already know!
> LOL
> Diana

I've seen beaded quilts before. Oh, man! (it's the kind of thing that
makes me wobbly.)

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <20030415205542...@mb-ci.aol.com>,
diva...@aol.compuppies (Dr. Sooz) wrote:

> His stuff really reeks of mass production. They're not art. At best they're
> cheesy illustration. His work makes my skin crawl, but then it's not really
> his work, is it? I can't imagine paying $30K for a painting of his! Oh dear
> dear dear.....

I feel that way about Dale Chihuly...

[Kandice Seeber]

Doesn't he create all of his own art though?

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net
Helping Carol Auctions
http://snurl.com/nh8
"Kalera Stratton" <kal...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:kalera-343B7B....@netnews.attbi.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

>Doesn't he create all of his own art though?

http://www.chihuly.com/

[Kandice Seeber]

Well, okay, he has help - some of those pieces are huge and many many glass
blowers have to have partners. I've been in the hot shop in the museum in
Tacoma. The art is not mass produced by other people and labeled as Chihuly
pieces, is it? I don't see where this can be compared to Thomas Kincaid at
all. Help point me in the right direction please.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net
Helping Carol Auctions
http://snurl.com/nh8

"Dr. Sooz" <diva...@aol.compuppies> wrote in message

news:20030422140415...@mb-m17.aol.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

Well, and Dale has only one eye! The depth perception can be fatal with the
large-scale work he does. (And -- I think his work is a million times superior
to Thomas Kincaid!)

>Well, okay, he has help - some of those pieces are huge and many many glass
>blowers have to have partners. I've been in the hot shop in the museum in
>Tacoma. The art is not mass produced by other people and labeled as Chihuly
>pieces, is it? I don't see where this can be compared to Thomas Kincaid at
>all. Help point me in the right direction please.

[Steve & Susan Wright]

Dale directs the blowers an all the pieces and each is a one of but he does
not do the blowing himself because of the one eye thing. Catch one of the
films on him, very interesting.
Susan W

"Kandice Seeber" <see...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:MGgpa.570000$L1.166091@sccrnsc02...

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <Zk4pa.564045$L1.165601@sccrnsc02>,
"Kandice Seeber" <see...@attbi.com> wrote:

> Doesn't he create all of his own art though?

He actually makes his "paintings" with his own hands, but his glass work
is made by studios full of apprentices.

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, EDD 6/1/03

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <20030422140415...@mb-m17.aol.com>,
diva...@aol.compuppies (Dr. Sooz) wrote:

Me and the friend I worked at Bullseye with use "chihuly" as an
adjective meaning "all messed up".

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, EDD 6/1/03

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <MGgpa.570000$L1.166091@sccrnsc02>,
"Kandice Seeber" <see...@attbi.com> wrote:

> Well, okay, he has help - some of those pieces are huge and many many glass
> blowers have to have partners. I've been in the hot shop in the museum in
> Tacoma. The art is not mass produced by other people and labeled as Chihuly
> pieces, is it? I don't see where this can be compared to Thomas Kincaid at
> all. Help point me in the right direction please.

Bottom line; he does not blow his own pieces. It's not that he has
"help", it's that he doesn't make them. He makes these pencil sketches
that look sorta like octopi, hands them over to his studio (or whatever
studio he's being allowed to use for free because he's such a big name)
and then vaguely "oversees" the process, if he's there at all. I don't
think much of him as an artist or as a person.

He must laugh his ass off all the way to the bank.

Some of his early pieces showed promise, but at this point he's a "glass
installation designer" more than anything. I do have to hand him the
fact that he's become stunningly wealthy and famous without actually
being a great glassblower... that takes a level of talent in itself.
He's basically the Bill Gates of glassblowing, only maybe not as nice.

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, EDD 6/1/03

[Kalera Stratton]

<Giggles of glee>

I'm going to put it on my website!!! (when I have one)

In article <0001HW.BACA68FD...@netnews.attbi.com>,
Kathy N-V <kathyn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 0:17:31 -0400, Kalera Stratton wrote
> (in message <kalera-D9ADC2....@netnews.attbi.com>):

>
> > KATHY! You should copyright this as "freely distributable with proper
> > credit" so we can all put it on our websites!!!
> >
> > I'M NOT KIDDING!
>

> See below.

>
>
> > In article <BABF6B17.44C6D%kathyn...@hotmail.com>,
> > Kathy N-V <kathyn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> in article b7cn69$l91$5...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net, Lee S. Billings wrote on
> >> 4/13/03 6:09 PM:
> >>
> >>> This came up, briefly, in Tink's art show thread -- but it's something a
> >>> lot
> >>> of
> >>> us could use. How *does* one explain, briefly and politely but clearly,
> >>> the
> >>> difference between high-quality artisan lampwork beads and the cheap
> >>> imported
> >>> mass-produced Indian stuff?
> >>>
> >>
> >> A couple of things, not in any particular order:
> >>
> >> * quality of glass: Artisan lampworkers are very fussy about the glass
> >> rods
> >> they use to make their product. They are careful to use glass rods that
> >> are

> >> compatible, melt correctly, and don't change into undesirable colors when

> Copyright 2003, Kathleen Nicklas-Varraso, Distributable at no cost as a
> complete document with all attribution intact. Not for sale to any end user
> nor for inclusion in any compilation in any medium without express written
> consent of author.
>

--
-Kalera
Mom of Juliet, 5, Sam, 3, and Ophelia, EDD 6/1/03

[Louis Cage]

Gotta weigh in here. Personally I like Chihuly's stuff and no, he never
could blow glass worth a dam, even when he had two eyes. I hated it until I
saw some and now I like it.
But I think all hot glass workers owe Chihuly a lot. Paul Stankard is not
a household name, neither is Lino Taglipietra (spelling?) and both are much
better glass workers. However, Chihuly has gone quite a ways in removing
glass from the novelty and craft ghetto. Somehow the little guy has
bamboozled his way into acceptance in the art world and dragged glass along
with him. Harvey and Henry and Dominick may have started "studio glass",
but it took someone who must be descended from P. T. Barnum to put glass on
the map.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"Kalera Stratton" <kal...@pacifier.com> wrote in message

news:kalera-E9C07E....@netnews.attbi.com...

[Dr. Sooz]

>Paul Stankard is not
>a household name, neither is Lino Taglipietra (spelling?) and both are much
>better glass workers.

Paul Stankard's website is already slated to go onto the new Links List. I'll
go look up Lino Taglipietra right now!

[Jalynne]

Kandice, I believe, from what I remember to my last visit there, that it's just the
museum that's named after him. In the shop and the displays, the artists' names are
well displayed. However, they're sold as Chihuly "type" pieces. I talked to some of
the artisans in the hot shop, and it was quite facinating. I could go down there
tomorrow, and double check if you'd like. It's only a 15 minute drive for me, and it
would count as another homeschool field trip...

--
Jalynne
Queen Gypsy (snail mail available upon request)
see what i've been up to at www.100megsfree4.com/jalynne
or look at my layouts at
http://www.azurewave.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=212&cat=500&thumb=1

"Kandice Seeber" <see...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:MGgpa.570000$L1.166091@sccrnsc02...

[Kandice Seeber]

That's okay :) I learn something new every day! I still like both Kincaid
and Chihuly - their pieces are appealing to my untrained eye, I guess. I
just like them for the beauty and the color. I don't own any of either
(unless you count calenders and stuff), I just look at them a lot. I look
at a lot of things without thinking of whether they are art or not.
However, when buying something, I put way more thought into it.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net
Helping Carol Auctions
http://snurl.com/nh8

"Jalynne" <craft...@quiltscrap.net> wrote in message

news:6mGpa.39064$4P1.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Steve & Susan Wright]

That is so true. Glass has become a hip art media now because of his
marketing glass and his name. He has inspired many glassworkers who see his
designs, his fame, his money and realize that you can make a living in that
media. Years ago when I was just a pup, a KC gallery offered his work for a
song and we thought about buying a nested piece but couldn't afford. Wish
now we had. We always go to his shows if they are reasonably close and love
his PBS and other shows. His school and having helpers has also increased
the talent in the hot glass world.
All glass workers hot, lampwork, fused any glass owe him big!
Susan W

"Louis Cage" <lc...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:lNFpa.24082$qx3....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com...

[Steve & Susan Wright]

There is in my opinion a big difference in the two. Kincaid is a MASS
producer without any individuality put in by the helper. The only
difference between his general consumption works and the starving artist,
nothing more than $50, type of "art" is that he has a set print with set
concept "Lights". Many of those brushstrokes aren't even brushstrokes but a
printing method. Heck a bunch of his stuff is simply licensed prints. His
work is pleasing to the eye and he has found a niche. I find it trite. If
I could give it an analogy it would be romance novels. They seem to have
the same story with only the names and places changed. I bet you could take
one of the many writers of these and interchange the works and no one would
know the difference. I bet some of them even hit keys on the computer and
change "Amy" to "heather", "Tyler" to "Chip", England to Texas, etc. and hit
print. I read these every once in a while when I don't need a brain to read
and follow the story.
All the work produced under Chihuly is hand made all the way. For sure not
by him, with a wide concept from those paintings/sketches in his hot shop.
I would like to own a concept sketch.

Susan W

"Kandice Seeber" <see...@attbi.com> wrote in message

news:xEGpa.617867$S_4.665759@rwcrnsc53...

[Louis Cage]

Yes, Chihuly's stuff is his, even if he isn't the "hands on" maker. Lino
Taglipietra has worked for him as well as Pino (can't remember his last
name, starts with an "S") and William Morris. Their own work has very
distinctive style, very different from the pieces they did for Chihuly.
Chihuly's studio does put out some lower priced pieces that are somewhat
"factory" type items, but the mainstay are the "one of" pieces that have a
distinctive style.

--
There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

"Steve & Susan Wright" <tum...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:vWQpa.38328$ey1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Beth Erickson]

Anyone here seen the chandelier at Bellagio in Las Vegas? There are over
2000 HUGE glass 'flowers' in it, and they're breathtaking... I'm not sure of
the "quality" but it sure is magnificent. it's attributed to Chihuly. I've
heard that the reported cost is over 10 Million....

just for wiw...
b

"Louis Cage" <lc...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:lNFpa.24082$qx3....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com...

[Lee S. Billings]

In article <vWQpa.38328$ey1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
tum...@earthlink.net says...

>
>Kincaid is a MASS
>producer without any individuality put in by the helper. The only
>difference between his general consumption works and the starving artist,
>nothing more than $50, type of "art" is that he has a set print with set
>concept "Lights". Many of those brushstrokes aren't even brushstrokes but a
>printing method. Heck a bunch of his stuff is simply licensed prints. His
>work is pleasing to the eye and he has found a niche. I find it trite. If
>I could give it an analogy it would be romance novels. They seem to have
>the same story with only the names and places changed. I bet you could take
>one of the many writers of these and interchange the works and no one would
>know the difference. I bet some of them even hit keys on the computer and
>change "Amy" to "heather", "Tyler" to "Chip", England to Texas, etc. and hit
>print.

I've actually seen at least one published romance where it was obvious that
this had been done. Some publishing house was trying to put out a line of
"science fiction romances", and I picked up one to look at out of curiosity.
OY! It was *painfully* obvious that the author had taken a rejected Western
historical and done global search-and-replace on key terms: "asteroid" for
"ranch", "scooter" for "horse", etc. The result was completely incongruous, as
the writing style did not fit the setting at all.

Of course, with romances (or any other kind of formula fiction), you're not
reading for the plot, you're reading for the style of variation on a theme; and
the same thing holds for mass-market "artists" like Kincaid. It's not the
originality that's important, it's the look.

Celine

--
Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <lNFpa.24082$qx3....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com>,
"Louis Cage" <lc...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Gotta weigh in here. Personally I like Chihuly's stuff and no, he never
> could blow glass worth a dam, even when he had two eyes. I hated it until I
> saw some and now I like it.
> But I think all hot glass workers owe Chihuly a lot. Paul Stankard is not
> a household name, neither is Lino Taglipietra (spelling?) and both are much
> better glass workers. However, Chihuly has gone quite a ways in removing
> glass from the novelty and craft ghetto. Somehow the little guy has
> bamboozled his way into acceptance in the art world and dragged glass along
> with him. Harvey and Henry and Dominick may have started "studio glass",
> but it took someone who must be descended from P. T. Barnum to put glass on
> the map.
>
> --
> There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques

Yeah, I have to agree that he's done a lot for bringing the glass art
industry into the popular spotlight, which has realy opened the doors
for glass artists throughout the country and particularly in the NW.
Lino (whose last name I have never been able to spell properly!) is
absolutely hands-down the best I've ever seen in action, but nobody
outside of the industry knows who he is because he's NOT a showman and
he's NOT a PR man. It takes a hell of an ego to do those things, and
Chihuly's got it. And, I guess, gods bless him for it!

Now we just need a woman with balls that size to do the same thing and
open the field for the "weaker sex".

[Deirdre S.]

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 04:53:38 GMT, Kalera Stratton
<kal...@pacifier.com> wrote:

Why wait for such a woman? Become her... <grin>

Deirdre

[Steve & Susan Wright]

I agree with you that it is his since he is the conceptual person and under
him the work is all done. I just wanted to clarify that he doesn't actually
have to be the manual labor in the total process. There is a BIG difference
between a Kincaid type artist who is a made for the masses person. Major
licensing agreements with some really big marketers of "collectables" that
are not worth much.

Susan W

"Louis Cage" <lc...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:1qRpa.35691$qx3....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com...

[Steve & Susan Wright]

One place to see some great glass workers is "Modern Masters" on HGTV. THey
are not currently making new shows but please write them and ask them to
continue producing this show. It is fantastic. Saturday around noon, I
have the TV set to jump over to it so I'm not sure of the time. I think I
have seen all the shows but watch them over again. I always get ideas and
inspiration.

Susan W

"Kalera Stratton" <kal...@pacifier.com> wrote in message

news:kalera-88B080....@netnews.attbi.com...

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <ub7qa.39716$ey1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

"Steve & Susan Wright" <tum...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> One place to see some great glass workers is "Modern Masters" on HGTV. THey
> are not currently making new shows but please write them and ask them to
> continue producing this show. It is fantastic. Saturday around noon, I
> have the TV set to jump over to it so I'm not sure of the time. I think I
> have seen all the shows but watch them over again. I always get ideas and
> inspiration.
>
> Susan W

I've seen that a couple of times... I don't have cable anymore, but I
watch HGTV at my friend Chris' house sometimes.

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <k3khavcsv9ul982od...@4ax.com>,
Deirdre S. <deir...@nospamatt.net> wrote:

Heh heh... Oh, I don't want to become a glassblower! Once upon a time I
belive I had some idea that I'd like to, and lord knows I have the
upper-body strength (the upside to being shaped like a boy!) but in
practice, I'm a lot more drawn to making beads, which will probably
never become high-profile and is already female-dominated anyway.

[Deirdre S.]

Then stick to the things you love to do. Just don't want to see folks
holding themselves back because they don't feel 'entitled' to become
what they most admire.

Deirdre

On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 07:01:54 GMT, Kalera Stratton

[Kalera Stratton]

In article <ri5oav06pl7bma0pa...@4ax.com>,
Deirdre S. <deir...@nospamatt.net> wrote:

> Then stick to the things you love to do. Just don't want to see folks
> holding themselves back because they don't feel 'entitled' to become
> what they most admire.
>
> Deirdre

Right on, D!