Ajman ID ? (Pompeii Wall Paintings)
Mette
http://queries.heindorffhus.dk/italy-ajman1972-WallPaintingsPompeii-Set300.jpg
(image scanned at 300 dpi = 680kb)
The stamp on the far right is in a poor and torn condition, the other three
are in "fair" condition.
In my German Art Catalogue with cross references to Michel they are listed
for 1972 as follows:
Michel #2041-2046: Paintings from the Vettier Family in Pompeii.
Michel #2047-2052: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (I)
Michel #2053-2058: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (II)
No specific issuance date. I don't have Michel Middle East and have been
unable to find them in both Scott and Gibbons. I have searched various
online information on Pompeii Wall Paintings, so far to no avail.
Is there anyone around with Michel Middle East at hand, who could help with
identification, eventually by comparing with b/w images, please?
--
Mette
remove mes for direct reply
------
Outgoing messages checked with Norton AV
Rod
G'day Mette,
Ajman reside "back of book" as a general listing in SG as
"stamps in excess of postal needs"
Your stamps I would suggest are even outside this generality,
I have never seen them before, I'm surprised that Michel lists them
(sigh) another catalogue to find :)
A general link to Ajman can be found here
http://www.ohmygosh.on.ca/stamps/ajman/ajman72.htm
but your labels are not listed, (interesting topical however)
HTH
"Mette" <ameshe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:44b69121$0$838$edfa...@dread12.news.tele.dk...
Blair (TC)
Hello Mette:
Here is my best shot at it.
The 3 sets are on page 129 of Michel Naher Osten 2004.
No dates - only year given. No pictures given.
All 17 stamps are 1.50 rials
set 1
Michel #2042-2046: Paintings from the Vettii Family in Pompeii.
http://www.touringhotelgroup.com/shop/img/ajman2632.jpg
#2042 Eroten bei handwerklicher Tatigkeit
#2043 Drei Eroten
#2044 Musizierender Satyr (your #4)
#2045 Drei figuren darüber Dekoration
#2046 mehrere Figuren, dabei ein Rind.
set 2
Michel #2047-2052: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (I)
(your stamp #1 must be in this group. I cannot find a scan.)
#2047 Ariadne
#2048 Opferung (sacrificing)
#2049 Diana
#2050 Fruhling
#2051 Mann und frau (your #3)
#2052 Menander
set 3
Michel #2053-2058: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (II)
http://www.touringhotelgroup.com/shop/img/ajman2634.jpg
(scan not in same sequence as Michel #s)
see # below after descriptionfor sequence (I think)
[your stamp #2 is in this group]
I believe it is #4 Michel 2053
#2053 Komödianten (comedians) #4
#2054 Landschaft mit Pfeiler (landscape with columns) #5
#2055 Tragöden (carrying desserts) #6
#2056 Herakles tötet die Schlangen (Heracles kills the snakes) #3
#2057 Frauen mit kindern (women with children) #1
#2058 Landschaft mit Bergen (landscape with mountains) #2
Blair
Jeffry L. Johnson
(in article <44b69121$0$838$edfa...@dread12.news.tele.dk>):
> In my German Art Catalogue with cross references to Michel they are listed
> for 1972 as follows:
> Michel #2041-2046: Paintings from the Vettier Family in Pompeii.
> Michel #2047-2052: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (I)
> Michel #2053-2058: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (II)
No photos in Michel. No photos identifying your stamps in Official.
Michel
1972. Gemalde aus dem Haus der Vettier in Pompei.
2042 Eroten bei handwerklicher Tatigkeit
2043 drei Eroten
2044 Musizierender Satyr
2045 drei Figuren, daruber Dekoration
2046 mehrere Figuren, dabei ein Rind
1972. Wandgemalde aus Pompei (I).
2047 Ariadne
2048 Opferung
2049 Diana
2050 Fruhling
2051 Mann und Frau
2052 Menander
1972. Wandgemalde aus Pompei (II).
2053 Komodianten
2054 Landschaft mit Pfeiler
2055 Tragoden
2056 Herakles totet die Schlangen
2057 Frauen mit Kindern
2058 Landschaft mit Bergen
Official Trucial States Stamp Catalog
1972 - Pompei: house of vettii
1465 Apollo and Dafne
1466 Eros
1467 Eros praying
1468 Goldsmith Eros
1469 Satyr playing
1972 - Pompei: wall paintings in Villa of Misteri
1471 Menandro
1472 The spring
1473 Man and woman
1474 Ariadne
1475 Sacrifice
1476 Dyane
1972 - Pompei: wall paintings
1481 Landscape
1482 Woman and baby
1483 Comic actors
1484 Landscape
1485 Tragic actors
1486 Eracles and snake
All stamps denominated 1.50 r.
Mette
Michel lists them, while Scott and SG don't
--
Mette
remove mes for direct reply
------
Outgoing messages checked with Norton AV
"Mette" <ameshe...@gmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:44b69121$0$838$edfa...@dread12.news.tele.dk...
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
>> In my German Art Catalogue with cross references to Michel they are listed
>> for 1972 as follows:
>> Michel #2041-2046: Paintings from the Vettier Family in Pompeii.
>> Michel #2047-2052: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (I)
>> Michel #2053-2058: Wall Paintings from Pompeii (II)
>>
>> No specific issuance date. I don't have Michel Middle East and have been
>> unable to find them in both Scott and Gibbons. I have searched various
>> online information on Pompeii Wall Paintings, so far to no avail.
As per "S"cott and "G"ibbons, they both appear to believe that:
1) "S" "G" By this time, the issues by the entity "Ajman" far exceeded
postal needs.
2) "G" Several printers were working concurrently on several issues
and contradictory statements were made as to validity.
3) "G" Around this time, postal contracts were finished on August 1
'72.
4) "S" "G" Ajman became part of the U.A.E. in January 1 '73.
Unfortunately, my Gibbons Overseas set is 1973. I did get the 4
volume set from the APS for $5. Not a bad deal. But in this case, it
fell short by a year. In the Addenda, SG mentions about 1/2 of 1972
but doesn't give them a catalog number nor value.
In 1971 alone, Ajman had "produced" 8 painting sets. The same with
"outer space" sets.
Why Michel displays them is a mystery. Maybe because Germany is
renowned for completeness? I dunno...
=======================
Tracy Barber
-----------------------
adirondack-pc
-----------------------
"Freebie Stamp Project"
=======================
chris...@postmaster.co.uk
SG Part 19 for 1996 doesn't add any more information to the above. Here
is the full text from the Ajman Appendix:
"From June 1967 very many stamp issues were made by a succession of
agencies which had been awarded contracts by the Ruler, sometimes two
agencies operating at the same time. Several contradictory statements
were made as to the validity of some of these issues which appeared
1967-72 and for this reason they are only listed in abbreviated form.
Miniature sheets and imperforate stamps are excluded from this
section."
Loadsa "stamps" (using the term loosely) without numbers or pictures,
then after 8 sets for 1972:
"Many other issues were released between 1 September 1971 and 1 August
1972, but their authenticity has been denied by the Ajman
Postmaster-General. On the withdrawal of British forces from the Gulf
the defence treaties with the Trucial States were terminated on 2
December 1971 when Ajman joined with the other states to form the
United Arab Emirates. The Federal Ministry of Communications assumed
responsibility for the postal service on 1 August 1972 and all stamp
contracts were terminated; stamps inscribed 'Ajman' issued after this
date were released without authority and had no validity. The stamps of
the UAE were in use from 1 January 1973."
Let's face it: if they are denied by the Ajman PMG, who presumably
acknowledged some of the other dodgey ones ...
I have one with a head-and-shoulders picture of a woman from Mette's
set(s), presumably either Ariadne or Diana from lists supplied by
Jeffry and Blair. I also have other Ajman dunes which I can't tie to
any of those in SG's Appendix.
> Why Michel displays them is a mystery. Maybe because Germany is
> renowned for completeness? I dunno...
Well, it's useful to know what they are, since they appear regularly in
kiloware, on eBay, etc. I don't go out deliberately to buy dunes, but I
don't throw them away when I get them. They are part of philatelic
history, even if not postal history, from the days when there were
enough collectors (or their gift-seeking relatives) for anyone to make
serious money from this dubious practice.
Chris
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
Yep. I didn't make a judgment statement on their value or worthiness
either. I simply re-stated the text and so forth.
This doesn't help Mette, however. Unless one has inside info into
these printers, one may never know what truly happened. I'm not too
sure the printers want to give up their names and locations all that
quickly. Then again, we did learn about forgers from the past - yes?
I have some cinderellas that are truly, totally and without a doubt
outside the scope of philately. Does that makes them unworthy of
collecting? No. Does that make the catalog publishers want to jump
for joy at the 3,000 Ajman issues between 1967 and 1973? Not
particularly. 2 different frames of reference.
Mette
news:1152888091.0...@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Tracy_...@frontiernet.net wrote:
- snip -
Chris and Tracy,
Thanks for your opinions. I have loads of these sand dunes, and I tend to
keep them all because they fit perfectly into my art historical context.
Some are listed in Michel, others not, some in Scott, others not, and so
forth. I am merely interested in the subject matter of these "stamps" and
will go pretty far to find out, because sometimes they clarify things that
are not always obvious from genuine stamps. I will continue my search for
info; many kind people have contacted me privately with some leads which I
will pursue, and some sunny day ... :-)
Regards from Sunny Copenhagen
Mette
A.E. Gelat
in my opinion, issues. However, they refer to other issues, not listed, of
which they are not sure about their validity. I am surprised at that, as no
other Ajman stamps were issued legally. There were several sources for
these bogus issues, the first of them being a stamp dealer in Beirut,
Lebanon; then the big American companies took over. Mette, since you
collect art on stamps, they are OK for you, but they are not stamps in the
real sense of the word.
Tony
"Mette" <ameshe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:44b74d3f$0$921$edfa...@dread12.news.tele.dk...
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
>Chris and Tracy,
>
>Thanks for your opinions. I have loads of these sand dunes, and I tend to
>keep them all because they fit perfectly into my art historical context.
>Some are listed in Michel, others not, some in Scott, others not, and so
>forth. I am merely interested in the subject matter of these "stamps" and
>will go pretty far to find out, because sometimes they clarify things that
>are not always obvious from genuine stamps. I will continue my search for
>info; many kind people have contacted me privately with some leads which I
>will pursue, and some sunny day ... :-)
Isn't this what the hobby is all about? :) There'll be plenty more
situations where stamps are found and catalog listings thin to none.
In your case, this is art for art's sake. Literally.
I too will still collect stamps that not easily found in the "expert
journals", simply because they appeal to me.
I have one caveat, if I can help it, however. I tend to not toss a
lot of money into the hands of those that would bilk the "normal Joe",
where the normal Joe thinks they are legit country releases and they
aren't - but rather someone's garage and Photoshop.
If I know they are cindies and the creator sells them as such, then
the buyer is forewarned. I have a bunch of these and they have a
known source.
Sometimes, however, the legit entities don't put out some things the
public is looking for with their wares. This brings up that pirate
niche market. And boy, do they look good!
So, I guess If I were trying to create an on-line museum (Mette has a
good one!), I would search for any and all related material on the
topics therein.
Keep on keeping on!
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
<age...@kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
>I searched SG, in the back of the listing, where it lists dozens of bogus,
>in my opinion, issues. However, they refer to other issues, not listed, of
>which they are not sure about their validity. I am surprised at that, as no
>other Ajman stamps were issued legally. There were several sources for
>these bogus issues, the first of them being a stamp dealer in Beirut,
>Lebanon; then the big American companies took over. Mette, since you
>collect art on stamps, they are OK for you, but they are not stamps in the
>real sense of the word.
In a related area, however, are the propaganda war stamps that have
been issued. Some even saw postal duty.
I had a bunch of what looked like mimeographed Russia and related
stamps that were mostly triangles. They were supposed to be
propaganda stamps. When I was younger, I received a lot of these from
one stamp company for .01 each. I bought all the different types,
hoping to obtain a decent collection of them. They turned out to be
cindies and I eventually traded them for Portuguese & Colonies revenue
stamps. Both of us were happy in the trade.
Even though the war time propaganda stamps weren't legit, they
actually had a place in war time history and how the Allies or Axis
were attempting to deceive the other side. If they were printed at
the time of the propaganda and not reprinted for "collector use", then
they had some value of sorts within reason.
Those companies / people / whoever that are printing these wonderful
labels these days have no such purpose other than making money - or do
they? Could they be attempting to indirectly usurp the governments
they mock? They serve no postal use, unless one slips through the
system. There are many postal clerks in the world who'd love to have
some extra pocket change to place a cancel on a letter for someone.
Hmmm...?
So, even though those propaganda stamps, like early Indonesia and the
South Moluccas actually had a place in history. What about Azad Hind?
My only conclusions on this are that some collectors refuse to be
bilked of hard currency for non-issues. Most of the major catalogs
steer themselves into this stance or close to it. Others may collect
them because they like them. Yet others find a happy medium in
between.
Mette
news:apnfb2tl5m7d678kq...@4ax.com...
- snip --
>
> Isn't this what the hobby is all about? :) There'll be plenty more
> situations where stamps are found and catalog listings thin to none.
>
> In your case, this is art for art's sake. Literally.
>
> I too will still collect stamps that not easily found in the "expert
> journals", simply because they appeal to me.
>
> I have one caveat, if I can help it, however. I tend to not toss a
> lot of money into the hands of those that would bilk the "normal Joe",
> where the normal Joe thinks they are legit country releases and they
> aren't - but rather someone's garage and Photoshop.
PSP / Photoshop are great tools ;-)
>
> If I know they are cindies and the creator sells them as such, then
> the buyer is forewarned. I have a bunch of these and they have a
> known source.
>
I don't toss money into this kinda stuff, as little as I do with illegals
(except in very rare cases with the Danish soccer team ;-)
I am fully able to distinguish them from the real stuff ! They come in big
lots intended for the youth club here, and I go through them to keep the
cindies and illegals aside for further discussion, and also to keep the art
things of particular interest for my own collections.
> Sometimes, however, the legit entities don't put out some things the
> public is looking for with their wares. This brings up that pirate
> niche market. And boy, do they look good!
>
> So, I guess If I were trying to create an on-line museum (Mette has a
> good one!), I would search for any and all related material on the
> topics therein.
Thanks :-)
>
> Keep on keeping on!
I am over it as much as I can. Which reminds me, Etruscan arts will have to
be updated on the next rainy Sunday. A collector friend in Italy has sent me
images of the latest Italy-issuances.
Mette
Mette
news:11528990...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>I searched SG, in the back of the listing, where it lists dozens of bogus,
>in my opinion, issues. However, they refer to other issues, not listed, of
>which they are not sure about their validity. I am surprised at that, as
>no other Ajman stamps were issued legally. There were several sources for
>these bogus issues, the first of them being a stamp dealer in Beirut,
>Lebanon; then the big American companies took over. Mette, since you
>collect art on stamps, they are OK for you, but they are not stamps in the
>real sense of the word.
Thanks Tony, I know :-) But sometimes they are interesting and illustrate
parts of art history that are not (or hardly) available elsewhere within
philately.
Mette
Rod
Mette:
I had these under "archaeology" as I had no idea what the subject.
Some are 1.25 riyals so maybe not the Pompeii series.
If any are useful for your work, please advise
and I can (try to) get them out of archive and re-scan them for you.
(scanned by the old clunker)
http://cjoint.com/data/hpcW1Njc0F.htm
HTH
Rodney
I noticed also Ajman has a "Childrens Stories" type topical
perhaps 1971.
I have "Iron Hans" by Grimm.
Maybe an HCA hiding amongst the series :)?
--
pookiethai at iprimus.com.au
"Rod" <pooki...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message news:44b83...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Mette
Thanks for the image and the offer. As much as I can judge, they are not
Pompeii, but could be any of the numerous archaeological sites in Italy. So
far I have not wanted to use them, because I cannot determine them with
certainty.
--
Mette
remove mes for direct reply
------
Outgoing messages checked with Norton AV
"Rod" <pooki...@iprimus.com.au> skrev i en meddelelse
news:44b83...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
>Rodney,
>Thanks for the image and the offer. As much as I can judge, they are not
>Pompeii, but could be any of the numerous archaeological sites in Italy. So
>far I have not wanted to use them, because I cannot determine them with
>certainty.
Just for giggles and within the country topic, what are Ajman
Dependencies? Suburbs?
Mette
<Tracy_...@frontiernet.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:b2aib2t260057l8sd...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:59:43 +0200, "Mette" <ameshe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Rodney,
>>Thanks for the image and the offer. As much as I can judge, they are not
>>Pompeii, but could be any of the numerous archaeological sites in Italy.
>>So
>>far I have not wanted to use them, because I cannot determine them with
>>certainty.
>
> Just for giggles and within the country topic, what are Ajman
> Dependencies? Suburbs?
Dependencies?? If you mean member states of UAE, the info is in Scott under
United Arab Emirates. If you need a map as to exact location, I can provide
one (scanned from a Dutch publication: "Ongewenste uitgiften en maakwerk in
de filatelie").
Mette
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
Nope. Read the stamps in the recent scans. Ajman and Dependencies.
I was wondering what dependencies Ajman could have.
For instance, Falkland Islands & Dependencies. I think this included
South Georgia, which has issued stamps separately from the Falklands
proper.
Blair (TC)
Mette wrote:
> Dependencies?? If you mean member states of UAE, the info is in Scott under
> United Arab Emirates. If you need a map as to exact location, I can provide
> one (scanned from a Dutch publication: "Ongewenste uitgiften en maakwerk in
> de filatelie").
> Mette
Mette: I would appreciate seeing your map.
However I think Tracy will need a map of the sub-divisions pre UAE
days.
I offer the following map:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/unitedarabemirates.jpg
It Shows Ajman as #4 as well as two dependencies to
the east of Ajman (also code 4) and a third area further
south on the line for 56 degrees East (code 4 - near Masfut).
Finally there is an area (code 8) jointly run with Oman.
The only dependency of Ajman to have its own stamps was Manama.
25 dirham, 1964 Tokyo Olympics, ne-waza, o/p, Manama, 25 dirham
on Ajman Scott # 30 / Michel # 34 / YT # 30 stamp of 25 NP value.
Michel Manama #11
http://stamps.usjajudo.org/PZ252afb.jpg
Manama - HC Andersens Fairy Tales
http://www.scvs.com/stamp/pix/2662-mnm.jpg
The Ajman and the others just used the general issues for Ajman
and Dependencies.
http://before.ijf.org/stamp/ajman.gif
Ajman + Dependencies - 1 riyal, airmail, harai-maki-komi with
spectators in background, 1972 Munich Olympics, imperforate,
Michel # 2725 A, YT # 119
http://stamps.usjajudo.org/PZ790afb.jpg
Blair
Mette
Oh, now I see what you mean. In the meantime Blair has described it
perfectly already in his post, so no need for me to repeat that here.
Mette
Mette
Thanks for answering Tracy's post while I was away from the computer :-)
Here is the map
http://queries.heindorffhus.dk/uar-map.jpg
Although more "primitive" it seems to correspond completely with yours.
And now good night. It is 1:38 a.m. here
--
Mette
remove mes for direct reply
------
Outgoing messages checked with Norton AV
"Blair (TC)" <stan...@sonetis.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1153001661.4...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Blair (TC)
Mette wrote:
> Blair:
>
> Thanks for answering Tracy's post while I was away from the computer :-)
> Here is the map
> http://queries.heindorffhus.dk/uar-map.jpg
>
> Although more "primitive" it seems to correspond completely with yours.
>
> And now good night. It is 1:38 a.m. here
> --
> Mette
Thanks for the map, Mette.
Have a good night.
http://stamp-search.com/images/gra87117sleep9beauty.jpg
http://www.trussel.com/detfic/bogartb.jpg
http://www.trussel.com/detfic/bigs3.jpg
8*)
Blair
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
>Blair:
>
>Thanks for answering Tracy's post while I was away from the computer :-)
>Here is the map
>http://queries.heindorffhus.dk/uar-map.jpg
>
>Although more "primitive" it seems to correspond completely with yours.
>
>And now good night. It is 1:38 a.m. here
This breaks it down even more so than before. Notice that just about
every sheikdom has an enclave in just about everywhere else. No
wonder there's confusion! Dependencies? Co-Dependencies!
hehehehe...
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
A gratuitous comment or 2, no? :) Hmmm...
Blair (TC)
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net wrote:
> This breaks it down even more so than before. Notice that just about
> every sheikdom has an enclave in just about everywhere else. No
> wonder there's confusion! Dependencies? Co-Dependencies!
> hehehehe...
>
> =======================
> Tracy Barber
Many of these enclaves were based on the allegance
of different desert or mountain villages to various shaiks.
The locals did not make maps per se (they knew where
the villages were). So, that was one of the first tasks
that the British advisors did.
Blair
Tracy_...@frontiernet.net
wrote:
>
Thanks Blair... one would not wonder why there would be conflict
abounding. One item I noticed is that most of the Emirates have
parcel on both sides of the peninsula. Interesting...