Which country produces the most beautiful stamps?
Steve Grant
French stamps are consistently *gorgeous*, much classier than some of the
silliness the USPS comes up with.
What country's stamps do you think are the most beautiful?
Steve
--
All your base are belong to us.
http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/sjgrant
ICQ #37620434
One year, ten months, one day, 1 hour, 7 minutes and 1 second. 20101
cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,271.81. Life saved: 9 weeks, 6 days, 19
hours, 5 minutes.
DBoyd001
>One year, ten months, one day, 1 hour, 7 minutes and 1 second. 20101
>cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,271.81. Life saved: 9 weeks, 6 days, 19
>hours, 5 minutes.
I quit more than 11 years ago. I don't know where the money I saved is.
Dave (in fact, I seem to have less money now for all those additional days I'll
live!)
Use commemorative stamps on ALL your mail.
Introduce the hobby of collecting stamps to someone.
Above all, enjoy your hobby regardless of what you collect!
Bob Ingraham
have seen, and have in my collection, stamps of several countries that I
consider beautiful. There are a lot more that I wish I could find/afford.
There certainly are countries, however, that seem to do very well at
producing truly bad stamps. Both Canada and the U.S. are good at that,
although they have also produced truly wonderful stamps on occasion.
You mentioned "silly" stamps. Canada currently has a series of definitives
that are so small, and so badly designed, that you need a good degree of
magnification to see what they signify. That seems silly to me. For a while
about 10 years ago they played around with "digital" images that were just
godawful. Then they come up with the engraved Millennium peace dove issue
that is just plain gorgeous. Go figure.
Here are some stamps I'd like to see (well-executed designs, of course):
--I'd like to see large pictorials of various types of clouds, including a
big thunderhead at night, illuminated from within by lightning.
--How about stamps featuring famous photographs by such photographers as
Ansel Adams, Robert Frank, Robert Capa, Dorothea Lange?
--How about aircraft nose art on stamps? I've got a beautiful framed
photograph that I took of the nose of the B-17 Sentimental Journey with its
classic image of Betty Grable. It would make a killer stamp.
--Pinup art from the 40's and 50's on stamps? I'd buy 'em! :^)
--Biographical stamps, showing the highlights of the lives of famous people:
Lindbergh, the Wright Brothers, Winston Churchill (I guess it's been done,
sort of, by the Brits), Ghandi, Einstein.
--How about famous quotations? There are a few political ones that I recall,
but I don't think I've ever seen anything from literature. Maybe I haven't
been looking closely enough.
'nuf said. I'll close with this:
"Designs in connection with postage stamps and coinage may be described, I
think, as the silent ambassadors on national taste". - W. B. Yeats
(1865-1939), Irish poet, playwright.
Bob
--
Ann Mette Heindorff
news:a8891s$k...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> I'm an American; I collect almost exclusively USA. But I have to admit:
> French stamps are consistently *gorgeous*, much classier than some of the
> silliness the USPS comes up with.
>
> What country's stamps do you think are the most beautiful?
In my view no country's stamps are the "most beautiful". Most
people seem to think that their own country's stamps are "silly",
and I am no exception ;-) I am generally not in favour of Danish
stamps, but being Danish I do collect them ...
Maybe the indirect answer to Steve's question is where the
topical collecting comes in ? Personally I have, for 15-20 years,
settled on art stamps world wide, and stamps being related to
literature and authors. I like these stamps, because they give
you some sort of "entry" to other countries (which you might
never visit yourself) and a lot of information about them if you
dig deeply enough to find additional information about the artist
or author.
For me French art stamps are great, so are the Russian ones,
and many from Eastern Europe. The Canadian art series is
gorgeous. Flora/fauna-stamps can be super when reproduced
on art stamps, such as flower paintings by for instance Picasso,
Renoir, Durer, and the "modern" rose painter Redoute (Belgian
stamps).
As an example of literature on stamps, just have a look at the
latest Swedish issue honouring Astrid Lindgren and Pippi
Longstocking. I suppose it revives childhood memories for
most of us ... :-)
Lately I am building up a collection of "Noah's Ark", showing
various animals on engraved stamps. In this collection goes
for instance the Canadian polar bear, the loon, the grizzly,
the millennium dove and others.
Mette
--
Ann Mette Heindorff
http://stamptravel.dht.dk
http://slaniastamps.school.dk
http://literature.school.dk
Victor Manta
> I'm an American; I collect almost exclusively USA. But I have to admit:
> French stamps are consistently *gorgeous*, much classier than some of the
> silliness the USPS comes up with.
>
> What country's stamps do you think are the most beautiful?
>
> Steve
>
There is no one country having the monopoly of the most beautiful stamps
(excepting for one that I won't mention here, because I don't wish to change
the subject line :-)
I have noticed that the Art on Stamps issues are consistently better
mastered and printed as other stamps, this being one of reasons why I
collect the mentioned topic. For the same reason some of these stamps
(usually showing classical works of art) are very often chosen by stamp
collectors worldwide as the best stamps of the year (as shown on the page:
http://www.values.ch/Magazine/awarded-stamps.htm )
Personally, I like the art series of Japan and Taiwan, countries that
actually started with grand format art stamps before France did. Examples
can be found on: http://www.values.ch/Countries/Japan/japan.htm &
http://www.values.ch/formosa.htm .
Regards,
Victor Manta
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org
1800 Links Online: http://pwmo.org/weblinks/links.asp
Art on Stamps: http://values.ch
Romania Shown by Its Stamps: http://marci-postale.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marek Zyskowski
That is easy, Poland has the most beautiful stamps.
Marek Zyskowski
marek_z...@videotron.ca
www.marek.qc.ca
Tracy Barber
<amhs...@adr.dk> wrote:
>Lately I am building up a collection of "Noah's Ark", showing
>various animals on engraved stamps. In this collection goes
>for instance the Canadian polar bear, the loon, the grizzly,
>the millennium dove and others.
Ya know, a lot of people knock Canadian stamps, but they've been
putting out some nice ones despite the comments.
I think the oversize polar, grizzly and loon are great. The dove is
one of my faves also and picked up the souvenir container.
Tracy Barber
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>Personally, I like the art series of Japan and Taiwan, countries that
>actually started with grand format art stamps before France did. Examples
>can be found on: http://www.values.ch/Countries/Japan/japan.htm &
>http://www.values.ch/formosa.htm .
To take that further, the national park series, the kabuki series, and
paintings from Japan are quite nice.
Tracy Barber
Bob Ingraham
am faced with the seeming inevitability of adding one more collection -- the
art stamps of Japan and France -- to my already beleaguered philatelic
budget. China, too. And no doubt others. Thanks a lot, Victor! :^)
Bob
Victor Manta
>...
> That is easy, Poland has the most beautiful stamps.
>
let's say, engraved art series from the former CSSR? :-)
Victor
Victor Manta
> I deeply resent Victor's suggestion to look at the suggested website. Now
I
> am faced with the seeming inevitability of adding one more collection --
the
> art stamps of Japan and France -- to my already beleaguered philatelic
> budget. China, too. And no doubt others. Thanks a lot, Victor! :^)
>
> Bob
You are welcome, Bob! This way you'll have some of the nicest stamps in the
world. Another suggestion (less expensive):
http://www.values.ch/Art-Gallery/Museums/NatGal-Praha/praha-local.htm
Eventually follow also the first link, to the site of my friend Gerhard.
BTW, this is my last proposal, because... I fear your family ;-)
Regards,
Victor
Marek Zyskowski
caught and I'll have to explain myself.
The stamps that Poland issued in the 70s and 80s have a variety of
subjects like Art, Architecture and Polish History(Saints, Historic
Battles, the Pope). All are quite beautiful and at the time that they
were issued most countries were still not producing an Art or
Architecture series. Countries like Hungary and Czecoslowakia and the
rest of Eastern Europe followed but I just didn't come accross that many
pretty ones from those countries when I was looking.
Poland was a communist country in the 70s and 80s. Since the early 70s
Polish thinking started to revolt against the communist system. You can
see that in the subject they chose for stamps. The subjects were choosen
intentionally to remind people of there unique history. And give a
little slap to the Russians next door. (I have a cousin that used to
send government mail to Moscow with a Pope stamp, that rate was wrong
but they alway got a kick out of it at their office.)
I'm way of the topic, and I don't want to offend any communist
philatelists. I cannot quickly give you a list of neet stamps to check
out. The beauty I find in the Polish collections that I have, come from
more than the just the images. They are also significant because of the
political environment they were issued in.
As for the former CSSR. I don't particulary like those stamps and I
won't give any details why. ;-)
But now you got me thinking and I'll probably have scan some of my
collection of used polish stamps from the 70s to show you what I mean.
But I won't promiss when.
Marek Zyskowski
marek_z...@videotron.ca
Pierre Courtiade
> I deeply resent Victor's suggestion to look at the suggested website.
Now I
> am faced with the seeming inevitability of adding one more
collection -- the
> art stamps of Japan and France -- to my already beleaguered philatelic
> budget. China, too. And no doubt others. Thanks a lot, Victor! :^)
>
> Bob
Bob's answer forces me to intervene in this interesting thread (thank
you Steve for initiating it !).
First, I do agree with Mette saying that most people seem to think that
their own country's stamps are 'silly' (see for instance for France the
new series 'Thank you', 'It's a boy/girl', 'Yes' (for announcing a
wedding), 'Congratulations' ; I'm sure next step will be 'Condolences' :
Belgium and the Netherlands already dared it with their mourning
stamps).
Whe here in France have more and more stamps with ugly designs and
flashy colours.
The consequence is that from jan 1st 2001, I stopped collecting newly
issued French stamps.
But I must admit that there are very nice engraved stamps in the 'Arts
on stamps' series and others as well, like our current 'standard' sery
('Marianne du 14 juillet'), first 'current use' stamp to be designed by
a woman (Eve Luquet).
For those who would like to see them (unfortunately I have not the Scott
#, but Yvert # are 3083 to 3101 for the first sery), they were issued
mid '97.
To come back to Bob's project : if you decide to collect the 'arts on
stamps' from France, you should discard some of them, which are also
quite ugly (IMHO) ; and for sure, I will not say which ones, as our
opinions may differ ;-)
Nevertheless, I would be very pleased to offer Bob a few ones I find
quite nice and that I have in my spares :
Yvert 1320 issued nov 13, 1961 (Henri Matisse)
Yvert 1364 issued nov 12, 1962 (Edouard Manet)
Yvert 1479 issued jun 27, 1961 (Georges de la Tour).
This will be a gift to thank him for his nice posts in rcsd ;-))
--
Best regards,
Pierre Courtiade
pcou...@club-internet.fr
Bob Ingraham
you have offered. At last, I will own a real Matisse! I will send my address
in a private e-mail. And I will have to check my Scott catalogue for ugly
French art stamps!
Bob
> From: "Pierre Courtiade" <pcour...@club-internet.fr>
> Organization: Guest of ProXad - France
> Reply-To: "Pierre Courtiade" <cour...@free.fr>
> Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 02:37:10 +0200
> Subject: Re: Which country produces the most beautiful stamps?
>
Bob Ingraham
>
> Bob's answer forces me to intervene in this interesting thread (thank
> you Steve for initiating it !).
>
> First, I do agree with Mette saying that most people seem to think that
> their own country's stamps are 'silly' (see for instance for France the
> new series 'Thank you', 'It's a boy/girl', 'Yes' (for announcing a
> wedding), 'Congratulations' ; I'm sure next step will be 'Condolences' :
> Belgium and the Netherlands already dared it with their mourning
> stamps).
I assume that you refer to the Queen Astrid Memorial Issue of 1935? I'm not
familiar with a Netherlands mourning stamp. There is also the von Hindenburg
Memorial Issue of 1934.
Bob
<snip>
Tracy Barber
wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> Bob's answer forces me to intervene in this interesting thread (thank
>> you Steve for initiating it !).
>>
>> First, I do agree with Mette saying that most people seem to think that
>> their own country's stamps are 'silly' (see for instance for France the
>> new series 'Thank you', 'It's a boy/girl', 'Yes' (for announcing a
>> wedding), 'Congratulations' ; I'm sure next step will be 'Condolences' :
>> Belgium and the Netherlands already dared it with their mourning
>> stamps).
>
>I assume that you refer to the Queen Astrid Memorial Issue of 1935? I'm not
>familiar with a Netherlands mourning stamp. There is also the von Hindenburg
>Memorial Issue of 1934.
And Jugoslavia as well. Mourning stamps seemed to make their way
around back then.
Tracy Barber
Dave Joll
> <snip>
> > I'm sure next step will be 'Condolences' :
> > Belgium and the Netherlands already dared it with their mourning
> > stamps).
> I assume that you refer to the Queen Astrid Memorial Issue of 1935? I'm
not
> familiar with a Netherlands mourning stamp. There is also the von
Hindenburg
> Memorial Issue of 1934.
I don't know about Belgium off the top of my head, but I do
recall the Netherlands within the last three or so years issued
a stamp especially for use on condolence cards.
- Dave
--
Check out Worldwide Stamp New Issues at
http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~jollian
(which probably lists the stamps - can't check
at the moment as I am working off line).
"About affection nothingness or erring address,
please carrying back massage into address
transmitter" - Back of an envelope from foreign parts.
sier
anything in this world is the "most" ....
No stamps from any country are "endorsed" always "most beautiful". At least, this is the case in
Chinese stamps. On the other hand, different people has different view on the same thing for which
you couldn't say who is absolutely right and who is absoultely wrong. To answer this question, I
think that this is a hard decision to make.
Sier
--
---------------------------
Collecting stamps is a good hobby. And sharing experience with others is also a great idea and
enjoyment!
http://stamps.delcampe.com/liste.php?language=E&id_member=635
--------------------------
"Steve Grant" <ACE...@concentric.net> 写入消息新闻:a8891s$k...@dispatch.concentric.net...
miket...@webtv.net
Mike
Steve Grant
news:a8ce13$rd00h$1...@ID-32805.news.dfncis.de...
> A good topic! But IMHO, you had better be careful to use the word "most"
because there seems not
> anything in this world is the "most" ....
> No stamps from any country are "endorsed" always "most beautiful". At
least, this is the case in
> Chinese stamps. On the other hand, different people has different view on
the same thing for which
> you couldn't say who is absolutely right and who is absoultely wrong. To
answer this question, I
> think that this is a hard decision to make.
>
> Sier
Are you saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Just curious what
some of my fellow beholders here in r.c.s.d. think.
Steve
--
All your base are belong to us.
http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/sjgrant
ICQ #37620434
One year, ten months, two days, 17 hours, 7 minutes and 41 seconds. 20151
cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,282.44. Life saved: 9 weeks, 6 days, 23
hours, 15 minutes.
Kaleb S. KEITHLEY
"Under an African sky."
Some of the early Union of South Africa issues captured some of the
essence of the African sky, e.g. in the clouds over the government
buildings in Pretoria. Any of the later pictorial scenic "Tourism"
issues evoke fond memories of the time I spent there as a child, and
later when I returned on a vacation.
--
Kaleb S. KEITHLEY
sier
opinions are also of help to you.
Regards,
Sier
--
---------------------------
Collecting stamps is a good hobby. And sharing experience with others is also a great idea and
enjoyment!
http://stamps.delcampe.com/liste.php?language=E&id_member=635
--------------------------
"Steve Grant" <ACE...@concentric.net> 写入消息新闻:a8cln1$k...@dispatch.concentric.net...
pimcly
I'm french.(sorry for the bad english...)
I want to do the same thing as you:to choise an other country from which I
find the stamps nicer.Well, at last,I prefer stamps from England:most of the
stamps are by series;I find it nicer when several stamps have got a same
thing(not easy to explain in english...),and there's a lot of subject which
I like on English stamps.
But that is realy personnal...
Just waiting to read about other personns preferences.
Best regards
Isabelle
"Steve Grant" <ACE...@concentric.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
a8891s$k...@dispatch.concentric.net...
Tracy Barber
wrote:
>Are you saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Just curious what
>some of my fellow beholders here in r.c.s.d. think.
Mais oui, monsieur... !
Some may come out of the closet and expound that certain beauty is
theirs and theirs alone, but it is in the eye of the beholder.
Now, have you seen the Twilight Zone episode named "Eye of the
Beholder" ? :)
>All your base are belong to us.
Army base, air force base, cocaine base? base ball? What?
>One year, ten months, two days, 17 hours, 7 minutes and 41 seconds. 20151
>cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,282.44. Life saved: 9 weeks, 6 days, 23
>hours, 15 minutes.
Good going, but I quit on August 10th, 1977. My lungs and tastebuds
thank me profusely!
Tracy Barber
Tracy Barber
Ya know, I can almost see that. For quite some time I was following a
web site called AfriCam. It showed (my still be around) different
scenes in different parks and places in South Africa.
You don't get that "Big Sky" feeling, but it looks pretty cool anyway.
Tracy Barber
Kaleb S. KEITHLEY
Tracy Barber <tr...@adirondack-pc.com> wrote:
>On 02 Apr 2002 16:19:45 GMT, "Steve Grant" <ACE...@concentric.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>Army base, air force base, cocaine base? base ball? What?
>
This should explain it:
http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~jayshah/ayb.swf
--
Kaleb S. KEITHLEY
Tracy Barber
So, I take it, it's a "cult" game. :)
Tracy Barber
Pierre Courtiade
"Bob Ingraham" <b.ing...@shaw.ca> wrote :
> What a nice surprise, Pierre! I would be pleased to accept the stamps
that
> you have offered. At last, I will own a real Matisse! I will send my
address
> in a private e-mail. And I will have to check my Scott catalogue for
ugly
> French art stamps!
>
> Bob
You are very welcome, Bob ;-)
BTW, I have not yet recieved your address : be sure not to use the
address shown in 'From' which will lead you to a false (anti-spam)
e-mail address, but the address mentioned below :
Pierre Courtiade
I'm not
> familiar with a Netherlands mourning stamp. There is also the von
Hindenburg
> Memorial Issue of 1934.
>
> Bob
I was not thinking to those stamps, which make sense, as they honoured a
deceased person.
I was speaking of stamps issued one or two years ago by the Netherlands
and by Belgium.
One is greyish the other one violet. If I remember correctly, there is
nothing written on them but the country's name and the face value.
For those interested, I will search for links to see them.
--
Best regards,
Pierre Courtiade
pcou...@club-internet.fr
visit SNA site : http://www.values.ch/sna-site/sna.htm
Kaleb S. KEITHLEY
Tracy Barber <tr...@adirondack-pc.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 18:01:22 GMT, ka...@keithley.org (Kaleb S.
>KEITHLEY) wrote:
>
>>In article <3ca9ec87...@news-server.nycap.rr.com>,
>>Tracy Barber <tr...@adirondack-pc.com> wrote:
>>>On 02 Apr 2002 16:19:45 GMT, "Steve Grant" <ACE...@concentric.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>All your base are belong to us.
>>>
>>>Army base, air force base, cocaine base? base ball? What?
>>>
>>
>>This should explain it:
>>
>> http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~jayshah/ayb.swf
>
>So, I take it, it's a "cult" game. :)
>
A cult game. I suppose, in the same sense that Rocky Horror Picture
Show is a cult movie.
See the new I-rate (or irate) make-up stamp at
http://www.keithley.org/~kaleb/stamps/ayb/
:-) All Your Base Are Belong To Us. :-)
--
Kaleb S. KEITHLEY
Bob Ingraham
Bob
> From: ka...@keithley.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY)
> Organization: Kaleb S. KEITHLEY
> Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 18:01:22 GMT
> Subject: All your base are belong to us, was Re: Which country produces the
> most beautiful stamps?
>
Associazione Pro Civ Certosa
Michelangelo
Steve Grant <ACE...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:a8891s$k...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> I'm an American; I collect almost exclusively USA. But I have to admit:
> French stamps are consistently *gorgeous*, much classier than some of the
> silliness the USPS comes up with.
>
> What country's stamps do you think are the most beautiful?
>
> Steve
> --
> All your base are belong to us.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/sjgrant
>
> ICQ #37620434
>
> One year, ten months, one day, 1 hour, 7 minutes and 1 second. 20101
> cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,271.81. Life saved: 9 weeks, 6 days, 19
> hours, 5 minutes.
>
>
>
Phil Stonestreet
"Tracy Barber" <tr...@adirondack-pc.com> wrote in message
news:3ca9ec87...@news-server.nycap.rr.com...
Pierre Courtiade
..........
> I was speaking of stamps issued one or two years ago by the
> Netherlands and by Belgium.
> One is greyish the other one violet. If I remember correctly, there is
> nothing written on them but the country's name and the face value.
> For those interested, I will search for links to see them.
Sorry, those stamps are more recent I was thinking.
The stamp from Belgium was issued on dec. 10, 2001
The Netherlands' one was issued on jan. 28, 2002.
I found no link, but if somebody is interested, I may send him scans
from the newspapers giving pictures of those 2 stamps.
Blair Stannard
Pierre:
You can see a scan of the 2002 Dutch mourning stamp at:
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Bureau/5382/2001NewIssue/DeuchMo.jpg
Greeting: Mourning stamp
The neutral design of the mourning stamp by Rutger Fuchs was first
issued on 2 January 1998 to make letters of condolence more
recognisable.
Size 30 x 30 mm
Designer Rutger Fuchs, Amsterdam
Perforation slit
Paper normal with phosphorescent overprint
Gum self-adhesive
Colours blue-grey
Print technique rotogravure
Printer Walsall Security Printers Ltd., UK
Format and Quantity sheets of 50 : 120,000 sheets
Face Value EUR 0,39
In regards to the Belgian mourning stamp, it was only avaible for a
short period in the post office. From then on, it is only available at
the Philatelic service and at undertakers.
For a scan of the Belgian stamp, please see:
http://www.unicover.com/agncyimg/C5524962.JPG
Mourning stamp Issue Date: December 10, 2001
Face Value Stamp Description
(EUR .42) Mourning
nondenominated stamp for standard domestic rate,
tree and skyline at sunset.
Designers, Myriam Voz, Thierry Martin;
engraver, Group de Schutter;
gravure in sheets of 30, printer not reported
I hope that this is helpful to you.
Blair
.
Pierre Courtiade
> Pierre:
>
> You can see a scan of the 2002 Dutch mourning stamp at:
>
>
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Bureau/5382/2001NewIssue/DeuchMo.jpg
> ................
>
> For a scan of the Belgian stamp, please see:
> http://www.unicover.com/agncyimg/C5524962.JPG
> ................
>
> Blair
> .
Many thanks, Blair for this detailed information.
--
Best regards,
Pierre Courtiade
pcou...@club-internet.fr
Tony Clayton
issues are attractive and well-designed.
GB are beginning to pull themselves out of the nadir of the Millenium issues.
--
Tony Clayton to...@tclayton.demon.co.uk or tony.cla...@pem.cam.ac.uk
Coins of the UK : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/coins.html
Metals used in Coins : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/metal.html
Sent using RISC OS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... FLATTERY: telling a person exactly what he thinks of himself.
Tracy Barber
Clayton) wrote:
>One reason that I collect the stamps of Italy is that a high proportion of their
>issues are attractive and well-designed.
Agreed... The art stamps are pretty nice, overall.
>GB are beginning to pull themselves out of the nadir of the Millenium issues.
But not of the death knell of mucho-multiple multiple stamp sets
constantly. Enough, already...
Tracy Barber
John Mueller
the Machins from Great Britain
JBM
Steve Grant wrote:
> I'm an American; I collect almost exclusively USA. But I have to admit:
> French stamps are consistently *gorgeous*, much classier than some of the
> silliness the USPS comes up with.
>
> What country's stamps do you think are the most beautiful?
>
> Steve
> --
> All your base are belong to us.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/sjgrant
>
> ICQ #37620434
>
> One year, ten months, one day, 1 hour, 7 minutes and 1 second. 20101
> cigarettes not smoked, saving $4,271.81. Life saved: 9 weeks, 6 days, 19
> hours, 5 minutes.
Graham Gilbert
For clean design and superb engraving I'd vote for Norway.
"Tony Clayton" <to...@tclayton.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20020408....@tclayton.demon.co.uk...