Re: Use caution in dealing with Brad Neely of BNeely Coin Rarities in North Carolina
Jason Burke
> Before proceeding with my complaint against Mr. Neely, let me state my
> credentials. I am a retired USAF veteran, who served nearly 27 years before
> recently retiring as a Colonel in the USAF. I say this not to impress
> anyone, but hopefully to lay credence to my story, which is nothing but the
> truth. For me, I will never buy from Mr. Neely again, as his
> unprofessionalism speaks volumes.
>
Blah, blah blah. So you weren't able to flip it quickly for a $400
profit for basically doing nothing. Gee. Too bad.
Nick Knight
at 05:27 PM, "BJ77" <bj...@yahoo.com> said:
>Besides, regardless of what I thought the grade was or what
>Neely thought it was, simply doesn't matter. In most cases, what counts is
>what the 3rd party graders say, and in this case, both Neely and I had
>over-graded the note.
Nonsense. The re-grading game is done all of the time, and services do
under and overgrade.
You put a ton of effort into all of that test. What a shame. You tried to
make a quick profit on a bill you thought was undergraded and/or
underpriced. And you were happy until someone educated you about some
possible history? Not that the bill was fake or repaired, just that someone
else thought it was 5 points overgraded? And you figured this out weeks
later?
Yeah, I'm on Mr. Neely's side here. Learn how to grade for yourself, or
stick to frigging 3rd party graded pieces. And quit thinking you're going
to become a dealer. You are apparently no good at valuing a piece. Or
grading. Same thing in reality.
Nick
som...@some.domain
and it seems like simple greed here too, nick. this guy feels kind of slimey.
oly
> Before proceeding with my complaint against Mr. Neely, let me state my
> credentials. I am a retired USAF veteran, who served nearly 27 years before
> recently retiring as a Colonel in the USAF. I say this not to impress
> anyone, but hopefully to lay credence to my story, which is nothing but the
> truth. For me, I will never buy from Mr. Neely again, as his
> unprofessionalism speaks volumes.
>
> 1891 Manning Silver Certificate in VF20 condition (Brad's assigned grade). I
> received note and was initially pleased. I believed I could make $200 or
> more at auction for a note in this grade. In late August 2011, I listed the
> note on EBAY for $1,450 'starting bid' and $1,850 'buy it now'. With less
> than 12 hours remaining on the auction, I received a note from an EBAY
> member. He informed me that my $20 Manning had recently sold on Heritage
> Auctions as a PCGS-certified Fine 15 note. At first I did not believe him,
> but after investigating myself, I saw my bill in the "past auctions" display
> at Heritage - indeed, it was in a PCGS Fine 15 holder.
> I immediately removed the note from EBAY, knowing that I could not possibly
> sell the note as a VF20 when it had a history at PCGS as a Fine 15. I
> thought bidders should be made aware of the true history of the note before
> making bids. Besides, regardless of what I thought the grade was or what
> Neely thought it was, simply doesn't matter. In most cases, what counts is
> what the 3rd party graders say, and in this case, both Neely and I had
> over-graded the note.
>
> as little as a "no difference" to perhaps a few hundred dollars. As
> collectors, we all realize that it "just depends." On average, however, a
> VF20 note will bring in more money than a F15.
>
> Instead of relisting the note on EBAY, I emailed Mr. Neely with a request
> for a full refund. I knew I was pushing it, but I thought it worth a chance.
> Afterall, I had spent over $10K on Neely's stuff in the recent past. He said
> that too much time had lapsed since the sale of the note. He did, however,
> offer to place the note on his website to sell for me at 0% commission. I
> told him I would consider it.
>
> I did just that....and went back to Neely stating that this whole situation
> was still not sitting well with me. Had I known the history of the note as I
> do now, I would never have paid $1265 for it. Maybe Neely would; but not me.
> I really thought we could reach some compromise where I did not have to ship
> the note to him, taking even more away from little I stood to gain by
> selling the note, and take a chance I could make as much on the note as I
> paid for it--it just didn't make much sense to try. So, I again requested a
> 100% and was told no. I then said I would accept a $100 partial
> refund -which is about half the "average" difference in value between a $20
> Manning in VF20 and one in F15. I believed this offer was fair to both of
> us. Mr. Neely, I thought, would come out looking "golden" for having
> satisfied a frustrated customer, and I would have reaped a little bit in the
> difference in value between a VF20 and F15 note. Unfortunately, he would not
> consider it. He seemed to believe that I was still getting a great note, at
> a great price, and that I should be thrilled to own it. Besides, he implied,
> the 3rd party grading companies can't be trusted. Since he thought the note
> was a VF20, well-that is what it must be.
>
> Finally, whether or not Mr. Neely knew that the note he sold me had
> previously been certified by PCGS as a F15, I do not know. Personally, I
> BELEIVE he did, but again, I simply do NOT know. I'd like to give him the
> benefit of the doubt, but after reading a note he sent me (see bottom
> quote), I am not sure I can.
>
> I am also not sure what to make out of these quotes. So, I lay it out there
> for you to read...and use caution if you expect to deal with him in the
> future. I, for sure, will not deal with him again. I simply to not trust him
> and do not like to be insulted, especially by people whom I've helped put
> bread on their table and gas in their gas tank. But again, it is up to you.
>
> These are pretty much direct quotes.misspellings and grammar were not
> altered.
>
> 28 Aug 11, Sunday, 4:02 pm, Brad Neely wrote:
> "Just because one grading service says a note is a Fine15, doesn't mean that
> every grader in the country automatically agrees. 90% of the time, the grade
> at one service is completely different than the grade at another service for
> the same note. "
>
> 29 Aug 11, Monday, 12:11am, Brad Neely wrote:
> "Currency is nothing like coins, which the "coin dummies" look at the piece
> of plastic, then a sheet, and figure out what to pay for it, giving no
> attention to the coin. It makes no difference if that note was holdered as a
> VG10, it would still sell for the same price. F15 to VF20 is a judgment call
> in the first place, an there is no "fold count" or any other exact criteria
> to give the note a cut and dry grade. My buy price of that note is the same
> price if it were given 200 different grades by 200 different people. Some
> people (unfortunately) get caught up in collecting a piece of plastic with a
> grade on it, instead of the beauty of the note. Do these people think that
> the graders are jesus christ?
> They would rather have an XF that looks like puke, than a VF30 that is
> pretty. These are the people that are unsucessful, end up having a
> collection of ugly and overgraded notes, but somehow have piece of mind
> since it's inside plastic."
>
> 29 Aug 11, Monday, 9:51 am, Brad Neely wrote:
> Grades are opinions. Does a seller have an obligation to track the grading
> history of that note for the last 120 years?* You are unfortunately caught
> up in the collecting stage of thinking once something is graded, that's it's
> grade for the next 1000 years. If your opinion of the note was VF20, which
> is what your auction description says, that's your opinion. It's not wrong,
> it's not right. It's your opinion. Let me say again, there is no exact
> criteria to distinguish a f15 from a vf20. It's a judgemet call.
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Brad Neely wrote:
>
> "There's no help or you. Your too far gone. A lost cause. Go bother somebody
> else. Idiot."
>
> NOTE BY ME: Nice comment from a guy whose business you just laid out over
> $10K.
Before proceeding with my complaint against Mr. Neely, let me state
my
credentials. I am a retired USAF veteran, who served nearly 27 years
before
recently retiring as a Colonel in the USAF. I say this not to impress
anyone, but hopefully to lay credence to my story, which is nothing
but the
truth. For me, I will never buy from Mr. Neely again, as his
unprofessionalism speaks volumes.
On 4 July 2011, I sent Brad Neely $1,265 in exchange for an
uncertified $20
1891 Manning Silver Certificate in VF20 condition (Brad's assigned
grade). I
received note and was initially pleased. I believed I could make $200
or
more at auction for a note in this grade. In late August 2011, I
listed the
note on EBAY for $1,450 'starting bid' and $1,850 'buy it now'. With
less
than 12 hours remaining on the auction, I received a note from an
EBAY
member. He informed me that my $20 Manning had recently sold on
Heritage
Auctions as a PCGS-certified Fine 15 note. At first I did not believe
him,
but after investigating myself, I saw my bill in the "past auctions"
display
at Heritage - indeed, it was in a PCGS Fine 15 holder.
I immediately removed the note from EBAY, knowing that I could not
possibly
sell the note as a VF20 when it had a history at PCGS as a Fine 15. I
thought bidders should be made aware of the true history of the note
before
making bids. Besides, regardless of what I thought the grade was or
what
Neely thought it was, simply doesn't matter. In most cases, what
counts is
what the 3rd party graders say, and in this case, both Neely and I
had
over-graded the note.
I also learned the difference in value between a F15 and VF20 note
could be
as little as a "no difference" to perhaps a few hundred dollars. As
collectors, we all realize that it "just depends." On average,
however, a
VF20 note will bring in more money than a F15.
Instead of relisting the note on EBAY, I emailed Mr. Neely with a
request
for a full refund. I knew I was pushing it, but I thought it worth a
chance.
Afterall, I had spent over $10K on Neely's stuff in the recent past.
He said
that too much time had lapsed since the sale of the note. He did,
however,
offer to place the note on his website to sell for me at 0%
commission. I
told him I would consider it.
I did just that....and went back to Neely stating that this whole
situation
was still not sitting well with me. Had I known the history of the
note as I
do now, I would never have paid $1265 for it. Maybe Neely would; but
not me.
I really thought we could reach some compromise where I did not have
to ship
the note to him, taking even more away from little I stood to gain by
selling the note, and take a chance I could make as much on the note
as I
paid for it--it just didn't make much sense to try. So, I again
requested a
100% and was told no. I then said I would accept a $100 partial
refund -which is about half the "average" difference in value between
a $20
Manning in VF20 and one in F15. I believed this offer was fair to both
of
us. Mr. Neely, I thought, would come out looking "golden" for having
satisfied a frustrated customer, and I would have reaped a little bit
in the
difference in value between a VF20 and F15 note. Unfortunately, he
would not
consider it. He seemed to believe that I was still getting a great
note, at
a great price, and that I should be thrilled to own it. Besides, he
implied,
the 3rd party grading companies can't be trusted. Since he thought the
note
was a VF20, well-that is what it must be.
Finally, whether or not Mr. Neely knew that the note he sold me had
previously been certified by PCGS as a F15, I do not know. Personally,
I
BELEIVE he did, but again, I simply do NOT know. I'd like to give him
the
benefit of the doubt, but after reading a note he sent me (see bottom
quote), I am not sure I can.
I am also not sure what to make out of these quotes. So, I lay it out
there
for you to read...and use caution if you expect to deal with him in
the
future. I, for sure, will not deal with him again. I simply to not
trust him
and do not like to be insulted, especially by people whom I've helped
put
bread on their table and gas in their gas tank. But again, it is up to
you.
These are pretty much direct quotes.misspellings and grammar were not
altered.
28 Aug 11, Sunday, 4:02 pm, Brad Neely wrote:
"Just because one grading service says a note is a Fine15, doesn't
mean that
every grader in the country automatically agrees. 90% of the time, the
grade
at one service is completely different than the grade at another
service for
the same note. "
29 Aug 11, Monday, 12:11am, Brad Neely wrote:
"Currency is nothing like coins, which the "coin dummies" look at the
piece
of plastic, then a sheet, and figure out what to pay for it, giving
no
attention to the coin. It makes no difference if that note was
holdered as a
VG10, it would still sell for the same price. F15 to VF20 is a
judgment call
in the first place, an there is no "fold count" or any other exact
criteria
to give the note a cut and dry grade. My buy price of that note is the
same
price if it were given 200 different grades by 200 different people.
Some
people (unfortunately) get caught up in collecting a piece of plastic
with a
grade on it, instead of the beauty of the note. Do these people think
that
the graders are jesus christ?
They would rather have an XF that looks like puke, than a VF30 that
is
pretty. These are the people that are unsucessful, end up having a
collection of ugly and overgraded notes, but somehow have piece of
mind
since it's inside plastic."
29 Aug 11, Monday, 9:51 am, Brad Neely wrote:
Grades are opinions. Does a seller have an obligation to track the
grading
history of that note for the last 120 years?* You are unfortunately
caught
up in the collecting stage of thinking once something is graded,
that's it's
grade for the next 1000 years. If your opinion of the note was VF20,
which
is what your auction description says, that's your opinion. It's not
wrong,
it's not right. It's your opinion. Let me say again, there is no
exact
criteria to distinguish a f15 from a vf20. It's a judgemet call.
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Brad Neely wrote:
"There's no help or you. Your too far gone. A lost cause. Go bother
somebody
else. Idiot."
NOTE BY ME: Nice comment from a guy whose business you just laid out
over
$10K.
Copy & paste - Just want to make certain the first post gets
memorialized.
oly
oly
The OP is a cunt.
oly
som...@some.domain
>On Aug 30, 5:27=A0pm, "BJ77" <b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Before proceeding with my complaint against Mr. Neely, let me state my
>re
>> recently retiring as a Colonel in the USAF. I say this not to impress
>he
>> truth. For me, I will never buy from Mr. Neely again, as his
>> unprofessionalism speaks volumes.
>>
>20
>> 1891 Manning Silver Certificate in VF20 condition (Brad's assigned grade)=
>.. I
>> received note and was initially pleased. I believed I could make $200 or
>he
>> note on EBAY for $1,450 'starting bid' and $1,850 'buy it now'. With less
>> than 12 hours remaining on the auction, I received a note from an EBAY
>> member. He informed me that my $20 Manning had recently sold on Heritage
>,
>> but after investigating myself, I saw my bill in the "past auctions" disp=
>lay
>> at Heritage - indeed, it was in a PCGS Fine 15 holder.
>ly
>> sell the note as a VF20 when it had a history at PCGS as a Fine 15. I
>re
>> making bids. Besides, regardless of what I thought the grade was or what
>s
>> what the 3rd party graders say, and in this case, both Neely and I had
>> over-graded the note.
>>
>be
>> as little as a "no difference" to perhaps a few hundred dollars. As
>> collectors, we all realize that it "just depends." On average, however, a
>> VF20 note will bring in more money than a F15.
>>
>> Instead of relisting the note on EBAY, I emailed Mr. Neely with a request
>ce.
>> Afterall, I had spent over $10K on Neely's stuff in the recent past. He s=
>aid
>> that too much time had lapsed since the sale of the note. He did, however=
>,
>> offer to place the note on his website to sell for me at 0% commission. I
>> told him I would consider it.
>>
>on
>> was still not sitting well with me. Had I known the history of the note a=
>s I
>> do now, I would never have paid $1265 for it. Maybe Neely would; but not =
>me.
>> I really thought we could reach some compromise where I did not have to s=
>hip
>> the note to him, taking even more away from little I stood to gain by
>> selling the note, and take a chance I could make as much on the note as I
> a
>> 100% and was told no. I then said I would accept a $100 partial
>20
>> Manning in VF20 and one in F15. I believed this offer was fair to both of
>> us. Mr. Neely, I thought, would come out looking "golden" for having
>the
>> difference in value between a VF20 and F15 note. Unfortunately, he would =
>not
>> consider it. He seemed to believe that I was still getting a great note, =
>at
>> a great price, and that I should be thrilled to own it. Besides, he impli=
>ed,
>> the 3rd party grading companies can't be trusted. Since he thought the no=
>te
>> was a VF20, well-that is what it must be.
>>
>> Finally, whether or not Mr. Neely knew that the note he sold me had
>> previously been certified by PCGS as a F15, I do not know. Personally, I
>> BELEIVE he did, but again, I simply do NOT know. I'd like to give him the
>> benefit of the doubt, but after reading a note he sent me (see bottom
>> quote), I am not sure I can.
>>
>re
>> for you to read...and use caution if you expect to deal with him in the
>him
>> and do not like to be insulted, especially by people whom I've helped put
>u.
>>
>> These are pretty much direct quotes.misspellings and grammar were not
>> altered.
>>
>> 28 Aug 11, Sunday, 4:02 pm, Brad Neely wrote:
>hat
>> every grader in the country automatically agrees. 90% of the time, the gr=
>ade
>> at one service is completely different than the grade at another service =
>for
>> the same note. "
>>
>> 29 Aug 11, Monday, 12:11am, Brad Neely wrote:
>ce
>> of plastic, then a sheet, and figure out what to pay for it, giving no
>s a
>> VG10, it would still sell for the same price. F15 to VF20 is a judgment c=
>all
>> in the first place, an there is no "fold count" or any other exact criter=
>ia
>> to give the note a cut and dry grade. My buy price of that note is the sa=
>me
>> price if it were given 200 different grades by 200 different people. Some
>h a
>> grade on it, instead of the beauty of the note. Do these people think tha=
>t
>> the graders are jesus christ?
>> They would rather have an XF that looks like puke, than a VF30 that is
>> pretty. These are the people that are unsucessful, end up having a
>> collection of ugly and overgraded notes, but somehow have piece of mind
>> since it's inside plastic."
>>
>> 29 Aug 11, Monday, 9:51 am, Brad Neely wrote:
>g
>> history of that note for the last 120 years?* You are unfortunately caugh=
>t
>> up in the collecting stage of thinking once something is graded, that's i=
>t's
>> grade for the next 1000 years. If your opinion of the note was VF20, whic=
>h
>> is what your auction description says, that's your opinion. It's not wron=
>g,
>> it's not right. It's your opinion. Let me say again, there is no exact
>> criteria to distinguish a f15 from a vf20. It's a judgemet call.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Brad Neely wrote:
>>
>ody
>> else. Idiot."
>>
>> NOTE BY ME: Nice comment from a guy whose business you just laid out over
>> $10K.
>
>The OP is a cunt.
>
>oly
language!
balif, whack his pee pee!
oly
>
> >oly
>
> language!
> balif, whack his pee pee!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Freakin' computer - I used a rather clear expletive. The OP is a
cunt.
oly
som...@some.domain
>On Aug 30, 10:32=A0pm, some...@some.domain (some...@some.domain) wrote:
>> In article <fd5bbe2f-de9e-4799-9a72-4c12088fe...@ea4g2000vbb.googlegroups=
>..com>, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:
snip of too much scrolling
>> >> "There's no help or you. Your too far gone. A lost cause. Go bother so=
>meb=3D
>> >ody
>> >> else. Idiot."
>>
>> >> NOTE BY ME: Nice comment from a guy whose business you just laid out o=
>ver
>> >> $10K.
>>
>> >The OP is a @#!*% .
>>
>> >oly
>>
>> language!
>> balif, whack his pee pee!- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Freakin' computer - I used a rather clear expletive. The OP is a
>cunt.
>
>oly
yes, we got the idea, oly. as long as you're having fun.
Steve Spradlin
and now wants to blame the person he bought it from. Once a certified
item is
removed from the slab, all previous "opinions" are void, the item must
stand on its own merits.
Some Guy
after you discovered you couldn't flip this bill for a profit.
Doesn't work that way, bunkie.