Rare coins - a safe haven?
Ned
..The results of a recent rare coin auction, held on
December 2-3 in Geneva, Switzerland, reinforce assertions
of industry sources that the rare coin market is
experiencing a near 20-year growth cycle virtually
unaffected by broader economic cycles. As prices for
similar high-end collectibles such as fine art have been
depressed by economic conditions, the trend for coins
appears to be contrary. In these uncertain economic times,
individuals searching for upwardly tracking investments may
want to consider putting their money "in" money.
Overall, the December 2 and 3 coin auction, conducted by
Numismatic Genevensis, set a new record for non U.S. coins -
$25.6 million, nearly 75% more than pre-auction estimates.
The standout coin was an ancient brass Sestertius of the
Roman emperor Hadrian that sold for $1.9 million U.S. -
nearly four times the pre-sale estimate. The coin
represents the highest price ever paid for an ancient coin
at public auction...
Among the NGC-certified ancient coins offered, the top 25
coins realized nearly $8.5 million. Coins of the modern era
also fared well. An Italy 1864 50 Lire gold coin graded NGC
Mint State-64 garnered $384,100, setting a new record.
Considered to be the most important rarity of coins issued
by the Kingdom of Italy, this example is among the finest
known. Another rarity, a Russia 25 Rouble struck in 1876 in
St. Petersburg graded NGC Proof-63 realized $321,475
against a pre-sale estimate of $127,500.
Arizona Coin Collector
news:ff7d8972ccd727ba...@pseudo.borked.net...
Hello
I though I read the above before on an early post. (see below).
In my view nothing is a true safe haven these days.
It is going to be very interesting what happens the next
60 days. It looks like GMC and maybe Chrysler will file
bankruptcy. I now have read the story about 70 year old
Bernard Madoff arrested on a 50-billion dollar Ponzi scheme.
Just checking "bloomberg.com" this morning, the Dow industrials
is now down some 216.25 from overnight futures trading. I am
guessing the down will end in the 7900 range by the end of
the day.
---- shit happens ----
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arizona Coin Collector"
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.coins
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:38 PM
Subject: NGC Announces: Auction Records Show Rare Coins Offer Solid
Investment Alternative
FROM:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/081210/20081210006183.html?.v=1
Uncle_vito
All that bad news is priced into the market. Market has turned unless you
haven't noticed.
Gonna be a lot of bagholders left at the station.
Vito
Bruce Remick
"Uncle_vito" <uncle_v...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fNKdnQJmH4j8Pd7U...@linkline.com...
>I guess that is why the Dow closed UP? You doom and gloomers crack me up.
>All that bad news is priced into the market. Market has turned unless you
>haven't noticed.
>
> Gonna be a lot of bagholders left at the station.
>
> Vito
At least two days each week "investors" suddenly remember we're in a weak
economy and the market tanks. Often on the very next day these same folks
revel in the news that some big company's losses weren't quite as bad as
predicted, and the market goes up. Whatever drives the market on a given
day is typically forgotten the next day. Ulcers to those who feel they
must track their retirement investments every day.
Arizona Coin Collector
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1rP0l.10144$uS1....@newsfe19.iad...
Hello
I agree with Bruce remarks above. Also if you have a very safe job
and not out of work, you not "outside looking in".
Lorrie S.
they
> must track their retirement investments every day.
I track mine every day. If I hadn't, perhaps wouldn't have moved the funds
in time and would have lost double digit percentage of holdings instead of
making thousands over the past year.
Lorrie S.
Bruce remarks above. Also if you have a very safe job
> and not out of work, you not "outside looking in".
only safe jobs are fast food and healthcare
Bruce Remick
"Lorrie S." <lorri...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gi0l3l$cmq$1...@news.motzarella.org...
Good for you. You can either put that aside to care for your ulcers or take
what's behind the curtain where Charlene is standing..
Lorrie S.
You can either put that aside to care for your ulcers or take
> what's behind the curtain where Charlene is standing..
>
Why would anyone get ulcers from doing something so mundane as to transfer
funds from volatile to low-risk funds? It only takes a couple of mouse
clicks. I'd be more apt to get ulcers from seeing an affirmative action
sub-human take a job away from someone that is qualified for the position.
Bruce Remick
Whatever floats your ulcer................. So I guess you should save your
easy profits to care for your sub-human induced ulcers. Personally, that
particular issue wouldn't cause me to blink, let alone develop ulcers.
Uncle_vito
the market like that. Like how do you know a correction is not just
temporary and not the start of a bear market. Also when are you going to
get back in. As soon as you figure it is safe to get back in, typically
most of the easy gains have been made. Bet you get back in when you feel
safe and that could be at a higher level than you sold.
Also, I know folks who ';got out in time' one year ago and put all that
money into gold. What did gold do? Drop 30%. So folks who think they are
going to trade in and out of markets like these have many ways to screw
themselves while trying to do this. Make just one mistake and all your
trading effort can be for naught.
My suggestion is to be in good stocks and just wait these corrections out.
I think the waiting is almost over. The market looks 6 mos down the road,
you know.
Also the market involves risk and if you cannot take a few years of
corrections, then you have too much in stocks and not enough in bonds.
I do not think the market will be down short term, at least not until after
Christmas. The big 3 issue will be resolved. Even if they go into BK, they
will continue to do business. Also at a much lower union cost. Net result
if up for these guys, but I wouldn't hold the stock. If they go BK, they
will be issued new stock.
Vito
"Lorrie S." <lorri...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gi0l3l$cmq$1...@news.motzarella.org...
mazorj
>me up. All that bad news is priced into the market. Market has
>turned unless you haven't noticed.
>
> Gonna be a lot of bagholders left at the station.
>
> Vito
So you're sure that the downward drunkard's walk has hit bottom now?
Anyone who bought after any of the brief rallies (such as this one) is
in for a continuation of the longer downward slide before the market
finds its real bottom point. It will come back, but not until the
daily drumbeat of bad news stops and smart investors halt the bear
market trend by snapping up the bargains in earnest. Eventually that
will bring back enough support to re-start a bull market. But we're
not at that bottom point yet.
Mark B.
news:ZDU0l.1416$c35...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >> guessing the down will end in the 7900 range by the end of
> >> the day.
it's my belief that the market will find its lowest mark around 3,000 and
then recover from there.
Uncle_vito
gonna get there. Who else is going to sell that hasn't sold already?
You still waiting to sell?
Vito
"Mark B." <bellin...@aol.spam.com> wrote in message
news:gi176t$cn8$2...@news.motzarella.org...
mazorj
It is my belief that you know nothing about posting on newsgroups.
You repeatedly trim important text that identifies who said what. In
this case you make it look as though I'm the one who predicted the
7900 mark.
It's acceptable to trim older text from a long thread, as long as you
leave some kind of indication that you've done so (or it's a trivial
deletion, like a poster's sig line) *and* you don't screw up the
attributions at the top so that words from one poster look like they
were sent by another poster - as you've done here.
mazorj
> What do you base that on. Seems to me, if it isn't at 3000 by now,
> it ain't gonna get there. Who else is going to sell that hasn't
> sold already?
Any individual or entity that needs to liquidate stocks in order to
cover other losses or needs. Anyone holding stock in a company or
industry that gets nuked out of the blue. (And there will be more of
those in coming months. We haven't heard all the bad news yet.) Plus
anyone who belatedly (and at this point, foolishly) decides to get out
of the market. I don't think that the collective effect from these
late sellers will lower the market as much as we've already seen, but
they will continue to suck air out of the room until the market finds
its true bottom point. Meanwhile, somebody has to be selling all the
shares that are traded daily. So it's not a question of "who else is
going to sell," but when will there be enough net buyers to reverse
the continuing (if erratic) downward slide. The fact that T-bills are
selling at par and even negative returns suggests that for the time
being, potential stock buyers will continue to stay away in droves.
> You still waiting to sell?
Are you starting to buy now?
I don't know about Mark B but I bailed on all my stocks mutual funds
just before the late September nosedive, avoiding a double-digit loss.
My guess is that we'll see a moderate uptick after Obama takes office
but there's no way to know whether that will blossom into a true
recovery or fade away as a temporary bout of irrational exuberance.
Uncle_vito
We will have to see what happens. I have been pretty well diversified
between stocks and bonds and could retire anywhere between 5 and 10 years
from now.
My stocks have ridden things down with the idea that I will catch the big
upmove when the bear is over. No one will know when that is until it is
obvious and by then, if you are out of the market, you will have missed out
(bagholder).
Best of trading to you.
Vito
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:X%W0l.1678$7I6....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Mark B.
> What do you base that on. Seems to me, if it isn't at 3000 by now, it
ain't gonna get there. Who else is going to sell that hasn't sold already?
> You still waiting to sell?
No, I sold when the Dow dropped to 13,000 and then jumped 100% into Ginnie
Mae. The Dow will hit 3,000 after GM, Ford and Chrysler operations have
shut down permanently in the US. Also, look for Kenworth and DuPont to shut
down all US operations permanently. The auto bailout will just postpone the
demise for 2 quarters. All that will be left in the US in a few years will
be service jobs and healthcare. But this was the intended result of NAFTA.
Too bad that lawmakers didn't realize it would also be the death of consumer
spending via job attrition.
Mark B.
> It is my belief that you know nothing about posting on newsgroups. You
repeatedly trim important text that identifies who said what. In this case
you make it look as though I'm the one who predicted the
> 7900 mark.
kiss my ass, you crybaby
Bruce Remick
If the only way the Big 3 can hope to become profitable is for people to buy
their cars. Giving them billions to help pay their bills and to build more
cars doesn't address their problem. They already have a glut of cars
waiting for buyers. Instead, these bailout billions should be given to the
people who are expected to by all these Big 3 cars in the form of govt
credits or rebates. In this recession, fewer people will be apt to buy new
cars anyway, regardless of brand or how fuel efficient they may be.
Trade in that 25mpg car for a new one that gets 30mpg, and you'll save less
than $130 per year (at $1.75 per gallon) if you drive 10,000 miles. That
novelty GM "electric" Volt may lose favor once buyers realize it may cost
more to recharge 40 miles worth of their plug-in electricity than to add 40
miles worth of gas. That revelation, in addition to a hefty dealer price,
may delay public enthusiasm for new alternative fuel models from other
makers as long as gas stays under $2.00.
Yep. Healthcare and service jobs will undoubtedly be the biggies. But
hopefully not until I'm outa here.
Mark B.
> Yep. Healthcare and service jobs will undoubtedly be the biggies. But
> hopefully not until I'm outa here.
The bad thing is, service jobs don't pay anything and a lot of healthcare
jobs involve exposure to biohazards, emptying bed pans and wiping dirty
asses that might have hepatitis, HIV/AIDS, etc.
A lot of low life filth comes wandering through the door of the primary care
physician's office. Some of these half-humans would be better off in a mass
grave somewhere......so at least the ground would be fertilized.
Uncle_vito
Vito
"Mark B." <bellin...@aol.spam.com> wrote in message
news:gi39n1$tco$1...@news.motzarella.org...
MJKolodziej
Some of these half-humans would be better off in a mass
> grave somewhere......so at least the ground would be fertilized.
>
>
And you call someone else a troll?
What coins do you collect?
mk
Mark B.
> And you call someone else a troll?
> What coins do you collect?
> mk
Only investment quality coins. None of this modern trash I see so many
fools peddling here.