Q. abt. IHC prices
Bob Hairgrove
Cent in grades VG-8, F-12 and VF-20?
I have the opportunity to buy one (unslabbed) from a friend of a friend.
I already saw it in person 2 or 3 years ago, am convinced that it is
genuine, and the person still has it and is willing to sell it to me.
She has had it in her possession ever since she inherited all of her
coins from her father years ago.
Since she does not actively collect coins, she had no idea what it was
until I told her! But I want to pay her a fair price for it, at least as
much as she would get from an honest coin dealer. Since I believe it is
grade F-12, I am looking at approx. $900 but would like to have more
input here before making an offer.
Thanks!
Mr. Jaggers
from the January 2009 monthly summary:
1877 IHC VG bid 800 ask 875, F bid 1150 ask 1250, VF bid 1600 ask 1750
James
Bob Hairgrove
> Bob Hairgrove wrote:
>> Can anyone please quote me current graysheet prices for an 1877 Indian
>> Cent in grades VG-8, F-12 and VF-20?
>>
>
> 1877 IHC VG bid 800 ask 875, F bid 1150 ask 1250, VF bid 1600 ask 1750
>
> James
>
>
Thank you very much, James!
Mr. Jaggers
You are most welcome.
Now, may I convince you that an indian Cent is in Fine condition only if all
seven letters of LIBERTY are clear, distinct, and not merged with anything
around them, and that the coin must be a pleasing, natural brown color with
no corrosion or damage of any kind? Yes, I realize that this description
now matches slabbed coins in VF-30 and above, but I'm an old-timer, you see.
Thirty years ago I bought such a coin as a Fine. Two years ago I sold it to
a dealer as a VF. Now it is in a top-tier slab as XF40. Sad.
James
Bob Hairgrove
> Now, may I convince you that an indian Cent is in Fine condition only if all
> seven letters of LIBERTY are clear, distinct, and not merged with anything
> around them, and that the coin must be a pleasing, natural brown color with
> no corrosion or damage of any kind? Yes, I realize that this description
> now matches slabbed coins in VF-30 and above, but I'm an old-timer, you see.
> Thirty years ago I bought such a coin as a Fine. Two years ago I sold it to
> a dealer as a VF. Now it is in a top-tier slab as XF40. Sad.
FWIW, the 2008 red book says:
"VG-8 VERY GOOD -- At least some letters of LIBERTY readable"
"F-12 FINE -- LIBERTY mostly visible"
"VF-20 VERY FINE -- Slight but even wear on LIBERTY"
Since I was able to clearly make out LIBERTY with the naked eye, I think
it does fulfil the above requirements (and probably yours as well).
Aside from that, the coin has not been cleaned and is a rich,
chocolate-brown color except for the inevitable wear on the high points
of the devices. The date looks good with the last 7 sagging somewhat
downward, and the reverse shows a shallow "N" in "CENTS". No reason to
doubt its authenticity.
Mr. Jaggers
The 1st (1977) edition of the ANA Grading Guide sez for Fine, "LIBERTY shows
clearly with no letters missing." The 6th (2005) edition of the same title
sez "Certain coins that might have been graded as VG-8, such as an Indian
Head cent with not all of the letters visible in the word LIBERTY, can be
graded Fine-12." That kind of simpering disingenuousness gives greed full
access to the playground and is the bane of numismatics of the 21st century.
The Redbook does indeed say what you have quoted, but in my book, saying
that LIBERTY is "mostly" visible for Fine is the same as saying, "Let him
who is mostly without sin cast the first stone."
But hey, it's your money and the coin may end up in your collection. If you
like it, pay for it what you think it's worth and enjoy it!
James
mazorj
"Bob Hairgrove" <rhairgroveN...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:69968$4978b863$4d3a92e1$20...@news.hispeed.ch...
For the obverse, my Carlisle Grading Assistant software says:
F-12 - "Some details show in the hair and feathers. Ribbon is worn
smooth, LIBERTY normally shows clearly with no letters missing."
VF-20 - No entry.
VF-30 - "Small flats spots of wear on tips of feathers,ribbon and hair
ends. Hair still shows half of details. LIBERTY is slightly worn and
letters are generally sharp."
EF-40 - "Feathers are well-defined and LIBERTY is bold. Wear shows on
hair above ear, curl to right of ribbon and on the ribbon end. Most
of the diamond design shows plainly."
EF-45 - "Wear shows on hair above ear, curl to right of ribbon and on
the ribbon end. All of the diamond design and letters in LIBERTY are
very plain. SURFACES: Traces of mint luster still show."
Re the lettering for a VG-8, "Some letters in LIBERTY show clearly,
any combination of two full letters and parts of others is
sufficient."
I don't know what their authoritative sources were, but that's from
part of the text accompanying the grading images.
Mr. Jaggers
I could find at least ten dealers at even a small show who will claim that
their coins have weak strikes, are therefore not "normal," and that I should
just go ahead and pay F money for their VG coins. This same phenomenon is
used to grade all buffalo nickels lacking a horn point as VF, even though
the date/mint in question is not one of the ones notorious for that problem.
The best way to find out how a dealer feels about LIBERTY on Indian cents is
to offer to sell him some. You will find that the "full, all seven letters
of LIBERTY clear and sharp" requirement for F-12 money will be thrown back
at you 100% of the time.
James