Viewpoint: Where have all the coin clubs gone?
stonej
Mike Marotta
> http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=...
You can "blame" any or all of many factors: the internet, or
television or radio or urbanization. I think that it is more
productive to look at the marketplace for clubs and see which were
successful and try to understand why. It is clear that there may not
be enough business to support two clubs only 20 miles apart if you can
drive to either in about 30 minutes. On the other hand, we still have
many clubs here in Metro Detroit. But that does mean driving. It
becames impossible to walk to a meeting: you have to drive, as even
small towns expand one new subdivision at a time.
The opportunity to socialize may not be so important in a society
where "scripted dramas" replace real families, friends, and neighbors.
On NPR's "Talk of the Nation" I heard a review of Bill Bishop's book,
_The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded America Is Tearing Us
Apart_. His thesis is that the more educated you are, the less likely
you are to socialize with those who disagree with you politically. I
think that applies more widely, as well.
About ten years ago, Clifford Mishler gave a series of "stump
speeches" on the increasing specialization in numismatics. This means
that there are more clubs whose interests are narrowly defined. The
Bust Half Nut Club, Conder Token Collectors, Token and the Medal
Society are fine examples of that. But you do not find 40 people
interested in Seated Dimes in one town, all available on the same
night once a month.
Ancients are something of an exception to that with local clubs in
Chicago and Minneapolis.
I think fact points to an overlooked fact. It is not necessary for
everyone to do the same thing in the same way. Coin clubs are not
lodges where rituals play out identically no matter where you find
them.
The internet is also overlooked. In addition to this ongoing
donnybrook, websites offering discussion are available. You can find
a list of Yahoo Groups in RCC.
Subject: Othere Coin Newsgroups Outside Of Usenet (Global Newsgroups)
From: "Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:49:34 -0700
Local: Mon, Dec 22 2008 3:49 pm
There are others, as well. In addition to the active posters,
hundreds, if not thousands of lurkers enjoy the forums and benefit
from reading. That would be impossible at the local VFW Hall monthly
coin club meeting. Similarly, only a fraction of the subscribers to
the maillist E-Sylum are members of the Numismatic Bibliomania
Society.
The internet is the delivery medium for Coin Chat Radio and Coin
Television, both of which were impossible in the glory days of local
coin clubs.
Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"On interrupt, set counter to zero."
mazorj
"Mike Marotta" <mer...@torchlake.com> wrote in message
news:121c17fc-bbf5-4170...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
That was an interesting piece. But doesn't the "birds of a feather
flock together" effect suggest that numismatists would tend to spend
more time and energy associating with others who share their views,
i.e., a passion for coins, by participating in club activities? I
think it was the effectiveness and efficiency of associating online,
at one's convenience, with a worldwide audience, on topics of one's
personal interest (as opposed to spending time and gas to meet monthly
at some outside location with a dozen or two collectors for a limited
agenda that may not interest you) that was the real culprit. The
Internet is a far superior method to acquire information. The main
advantage of club meetings now is that they fulfill the desire to
socialize in the flesh with like-minded others. Some people don't
need that kind of contact and prefer to pursue their hobbies in the
privacy of their homes.
OTOH, the rise of stock investment clubs shows that people still will
meet to pursue activities if the subject is important enough to their
interests.
Good analysis. My initial impression was that he was underplaying the
role of the Internet because the limited data indicated a decline
starting in the 1970s, before we all became Web denizens. Perhaps the
decline in the quality and quantity of Mint offerings in that period
took some of the wind out of collecting and when the Internet came
along, local hobby clubs never recovered. I wonder if there has been
a similar decline in stamp clubs and other hobby groups.
oly
> http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=...
I looked at this viewpoint briefly in my NN, and didn't pursue it very
far. It missed a basic point in my opinion.
One needs to realize that a lot of the impetus of the late 1950s -
1960s - 1970s coin clubs came from coin club "members" who were
pulling silver coins from their change and finding a short time later
that they were worth a premium. Same thing with Proof sets 1957 -
1964; people bought them and found in a short time they could sell
them for a very nice premium. Same thing with "bags" of modern, late-
dated cents for a shorter while.
Many of these "members" did indeed stick around until their deaths -
and that has more to do with the fact that the WWII generation was a
generation of "joiners", people who lived a significant portion of
their lives before the advent of television, and who deeply believed
in fraternal and mutual aid organizations. Hell, in later years, my
main coin club (Railsplitter Coin Club in Lincoln, Illinois) existed
more for the purpose of the old folks getting together and eating as
much cake and ice cream as humanly possible than anything else. The
coins and the coin auction didn't mean that much, they were just an
excuse.
It should also be pointed out that the costs associated hiring with a
meeting room and club advertising were very low then, compared to
today.
The conditions which made the proliferation of local coin clubs
possible in the 1960s were based upon the passing of our U.S. silver
coinage and speculation, plus a generational factor that doesn't seem
to exist today.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
As a co-founder of the local coin club, back when I was just a willowy lad,
I found that there was not much in the way of information readily available
to the collector. The only coin book for sale in my town was the Whitman
BlueBook. Most of us were trying to complete sets of Lincoln cents from
pocket change, and we all needed the same stuff. From their demeanor, I
remember suspecting that many of the graybeards in the club were hoping to
capitalize on the general level of ignorance and wheedle an SVDB out of some
dried-up guy who brought his accumulation of old coins to a club meeting in
a tin can (yes, there was one such guy).
I have long since left the coin club, but am a member of two other hobby
groups. I am now a graybeard, but so is everybody else. There appear to be
zero members of either group who are younger than 55. Unless the program
for the evening involves activities which would appeal to the prurient
interest, many of us choose to stay home on meeting night.
James the Voyeur
Mr. Jaggers
Very well put there, yep, by golly!
James the Elder
oly
Heck, in the old-time Railsplitter Coin Club, when a fella or lady
could no longer eat two or three BIG slices of heavily frosted cake
PLUS two or three bowls of ice cream, everybody else got concerned for
the slacker's health, and maybe even thought their friend was gonna
die.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Smoking seemed to be the prime vice at my coin club. I'd come home from a
meeting and would have to shower immediately in order not to reek of smoke
at school the next morning.
James the Nicotine Addict
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
While there were a lot of smokers in the old Railsplitter Coin Club,
the leading cause of death seemed to be "Moving to Florida".
Members would move to Florida, and from anywhere between six months
and three years later, they would be dead.
oly
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:gjilf...@enews2.newsguy.com...
There are no members of The Banknote Society of Scotland aged under 50, this
is a problem of course as members die off the Society may fold, we lose a
couple each year.
Due to the child protection laws in the UK it's not worth the trouble to
admit those aged below 18 which does not help either. Billy
Mr. Jaggers
Winters in the Frozen North'll do that to a guy too, only quicker.
James the Firestoker
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:gjilu...@enews2.newsguy.com...
For over a year, maybe even two years, it's been illegal to smoke in a
public place in Scotland, indoors of course, England and Wales passed the
same law a year or so after Scotland.
We never had anyone smoke at a meeting of the Banknote Society of Scotland
before it became illegal, the maximum fine is now £2,000, but had it become
a regular occurrence and the perp would not stop I would have ceased to
attend meetings and I'm sure others would have follow suit.
Breathing in a cocktail of cancer causing chemicals is not to be recommended
never mind the disgusting pong. Billy
Mr. Jaggers
I can see why banknote collectors might not want to have smokers around.
Hmm, maybe that's why until I was 23 I had never seen a shield nickel that
didn't look as if it had gone through a fire.
James
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
From my own experience, when you end up seeing the same old faces at
meetings every month or so, the novelty tends to wear off and you tend to
put more stock in whatever minor inconvenience there is to continue going.
You already know what all the other members have, what they collect, what
their views are. If you've made close friends, you don't need meetings to
contact them. One meeting becomes the same as the one before and some
people gradually get bored.
In the various hobby groups I have belonged to, the initial upswing in
member gatherings usually was the most exciting part. You never knew who or
what might show up next month. Inevitably, this was followed by a
leveling-off period, and then a gradual decline. That decline, however,
never affected my interest in whatever hobby was involved.
note.boy
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Sometimes I'll open an item bought off eBay and I'll think, there's a smoker
in the house this came from, I can smell stale tobacco when I open the
envelope or package. Billy
Mr. Jaggers
A lot of antiquarian booksellers advertise that an item is from a
"smoke-free home" for that very reason.
James
mazorj
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bd0a7724-f309-4ddb...@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 31 2008, 8:14 pm, stonej <sto...@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote:
> http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=...
...
< The conditions which made the proliferation of local coin clubs
possible in the 1960s were based upon the passing of our U.S. silver
coinage and speculation, plus a generational factor that doesn't seem
to exist today.
Good points. And I hadn't thought about the generational and age
factors. Gen-I-I-I youngsters grew up with many other avenues for
socializing besides hobby clubs. Moreover, unless they were exposed
to collecting at an early age, they have many more attractive
interests available to occupy their time and energy. Coin clubs rank
way down there with the chess club and the math club on their radar
screen of social activities, whereas for many of us in the geezer
generation, a couple of hours of yakking, eating, and occasionally
discussing coins is a pleasant pastime that's at the limits of our
endurance. :-DO
We have several exceptions here but in general the ranks of active
hobbyist collectors tend to form a "donut" shape - youngsters and
seniors. The donut hole in between is where life intrudes on hobby
time.
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
...
>I am now a graybeard, but so is everybody else. There appear to be
>zero members of either group who are younger than 55. Unless the
>program for the evening involves activities which would appeal to the
>prurient interest, many of us choose to stay home on meeting night.
Hey, lay out some calendar pictures of Marilyn Monroe, run any
Brigitte Bardot film plus the clip from "Boy on a Dolphin" of Sophia
Loren hauling herself up into a row-boat in her "wet peasant t-shirt"
and I'll hobble over there as fast as I can.
mazorj
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gA67l.2543$Es4....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:bd0a7724-f309-4ddb...@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 31 2008, 8:14 pm, stonej <sto...@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote:
>> http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=...
>
> ...
> < The conditions which made the proliferation of local coin clubs
> possible in the 1960s were based upon the passing of our U.S. silver
> coinage and speculation, plus a generational factor that doesn't
> seem
> to exist today.
>
> Good points. And I hadn't thought about the generational and age
> factors. Gen-I-I-I youngsters
Huh. Somewhere along the line the characters X and Y and Z got
replaced with the letter "I". Never seen that before! It's in the
version copied to my Sent folder, too, so it must have happened at my
end without my knowledge.
Should read Gen-X-Y-Z.
mazorj
...
< While there were a lot of smokers in the old Railsplitter Coin Club,
the leading cause of death seemed to be "Moving to Florida".
<
< Members would move to Florida, and from anywhere between six months
and three years later, they would be dead.
Florida - "God's Waiting Room"
mazorj
"note.boy" <note...@naespamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Vi57l.9321$xX7....@newsfe13.ams2...
...
> There are no members of The Banknote Society of Scotland aged under
> 50, this is a problem of course as members die off the Society may
> fold, we lose a couple each year.
>
> Due to the child protection laws in the UK it's not worth the
> trouble to admit those aged below 18 which does not help either.
> Billy
Eh? Yer' pulling our leg again, Billy?
Mark B.
news:c9cc0ddb-e782-474e...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=5979
I heard that coin clubs were becoming popular hangouts for faggots and
that's the reason for their demise.
note.boy
No, unfortunately. Billy
Mark B.
worth the trouble to
> >> admit those aged below 18 which does not help either. Billy
Because of all the old pervy geezers in coin clubs?