FA: Better Coins on Ebay
Frank Provasek
Indian Head Cent, 1895-O Dollar, 1794 Cent S-70, more
All slabbed, some with minor problems.
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins
Thanks for looking.
-------------------------
Frank Provasek Rare Coins
www.frankcoins.com
Current Inventory
Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc, ICTA,
PCGS/NGC dealer, 44 years' experience, Professional Auctioneer
TX-11259
Prank Frovasek
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:fdfff979-d0ca-4710...@l14g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
Better coins with minor problems?
sgt23
That probably would have sound better if he would have said better
coins, with aging problems. I could be wrong....
Michael Benveniste
> > Better coins with minor problems?
> That probably would have sound better if he would have said better
> coins, with aging problems. I could be wrong....
I have no problem with calling a cleaned 1880 Trade Dollar with PF60
details a "better coin."
On the other hand, the claimed retail price of the coin is $2500.
Here are a few online price guide entries for an 1880 PF60 trade dollar
without any noted problems:
PCGS.com -- $1850
CoinValuesOnline -- $2250
Numismedia Collector FMV -- $1710.
--
Mike Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain
Frank Provasek
> On the other hand, the claimed retail price of the coin is $2500.
> Here are a few online price guide entries for an 1880 PF60 trade dollar
> without any noted problems:
>
> PCGS.com -- $1850
> CoinValuesOnline -- $2250
> Numismedia Collector FMV -- $1710.
Ask these online guides where you send the money...
Maybe you like this ugly uncertified 1880 for $2725?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130411139292
Or this ugly MS64 for $4750?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350377660456
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC, ICTA - Full Time Since 1991
Mr. Jaggers
> On Aug 9, 10:30 am, "Michael Benveniste" <m...@murkyether.com> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, the claimed retail price of the coin is $2500.
>> Here are a few online price guide entries for an 1880 PF60 trade
>> dollar without any noted problems:
>>
>> PCGS.com -- $1850
>> CoinValuesOnline -- $2250
>> Numismedia Collector FMV -- $1710.
>
> Ask these online guides where you send the money...
>
> Maybe you like this ugly uncertified 1880 for $2725?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130411139292
>
> Or this ugly MS64 for $4750?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350377660456
I think this just serves to expose the deep hypocrisy within the coin
"market." Either something is worth X, or it is not. Most of the time, it
is not. But every party claims Absolute Truth. Same old, same old, since
probably before I got started mumbly-six years ago.
James the Very Old Man
Bremick
On Aug 9, 10:30 am, "Michael Benveniste" <m...@murkyether.com> wrote:
> On the other hand, the claimed retail price of the coin is $2500.
> Here are a few online price guide entries for an 1880 PF60 trade dollar
> without any noted problems:
>
> PCGS.com -- $1850
> CoinValuesOnline -- $2250
> Numismedia Collector FMV -- $1710.
Ask these online guides where you send the money...
Maybe you like this ugly uncertified 1880 for $2725?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130411139292
Or this ugly MS64 for $4750?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350377660456
Personally, I would enjoy just as much admiring the attractive XF+ trade
dollar with a hole in it I bought for only a hundred bucks. The only
example I ever expect to own and it represents the series quite well.
Michael Benveniste
> Ask these online guides where you send the money...
How about I ask you for comparable sales record of cleaned
PF60 trade dolllars at $2500? I do see a 1874 at teletrade
which sold in April for $850, but of course that's a rarer
date.
The guides do give guidelines on how they get their numbers.
> Maybe you like this ugly uncertified 1880 for $2725?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130411139292
> Or this ugly MS64 for $4750?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350377660456
No thanks. I've got one in PR-63 Cameo (PCGS) that I paid less
than $2500 for. But if it was really an 1880 business strike in
MS-64 and not PR-64, well now!
But how does other people offering their coins at too high a
asking price (in your opinion) have anything to do with the
merits of your claims of retail value?
Anon
"Michael Benveniste" <m...@murkyether.com> wrote in message
news:8cb9mp...@mid.individual.net...
> "Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote:
>> Ask these online guides where you send the money...
>
> How about I ask you for comparable sales record of cleaned
> PF60 trade dolllars at $2500? I do see a 1874 at teletrade
> which sold in April for $850, but of course that's a rarer
> date.
>
> The guides do give guidelines on how they get their numbers.
>
>> Maybe you like this ugly uncertified 1880 for $2725?
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130411139292
>
>> Or this ugly MS64 for $4750?
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350377660456
>
> No thanks. I've got one in PR-63 Cameo (PCGS) that I paid less
> than $2500 for. But if it was really an 1880 business strike in
> MS-64 and not PR-64, well now!
>
> But how does other people offering their coins at too high a
> asking price (in your opinion) have anything to do with the
> merits of your claims of retail value?
Actually I thought both examples cited were far from "ugly", not pristine
perhaps but not bad either,
Of course, they have nothing to do with Provasek's offering and it's relative
quality or lack there of.
On his web site Provasek claims he doesn't buy ugly coins but I guess he sells
'em!
Michael Benveniste
> Actually I thought both examples cited were far from "ugly",
> not pristine perhaps but not bad either, Of course, they have
> nothing to do with Provasek's offering and it's relative quality
> or lack there of.
"Ugly" on these sort of coins is subjective. In both cases
the asking price is at the high end of the retail range for
what they claim to be. And the only way I'd buy an raw proof
trade dollar is contingent on certification.
sgt23
I have no problem with cleaned coin either. But I do try too avoid
them if possible. If can't afford a problem free coin, I go with the
coin with the least problems as possible. Although I can't afford a
coin that is $2250 cleaned or not at this point in my life.
Frank Provasek
> "Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote:
>
> But how does other people offering their coins at too high a
> asking price (in your opinion) have anything to do with the
> merits of your claims of retail value?
I use Coin World Coin Values (formerly Trends)...that's been a widely
used
retail guide since 1960. A circulated AU proof is listed at $2000
$2500 is reasonable retail for a Proof 60 even lightly cleaned. Proof
60
19th century coins can be pretty banged up. You could order proofs
for the
previous years if the mint had any left, but they were stored loose in
a
drawer!
You DO know that my minimum on this coin is only $1600...if it sells
for that, I lose money.
Mr. Jaggers
> On Aug 9, 4:19 pm, "Michael Benveniste" <m...@murkyether.com> wrote:
>> "Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> But how does other people offering their coins at too high a
>> asking price (in your opinion) have anything to do with the
>> merits of your claims of retail value?
>
>
> I use Coin World Coin Values (formerly Trends)...that's been a widely
> used
> retail guide since 1960. A circulated AU proof is listed at $2000
>
> $2500 is reasonable retail for a Proof 60 even lightly cleaned. Proof
> 60
> 19th century coins can be pretty banged up. You could order proofs
> for the
> previous years if the mint had any left, but they were stored loose in
> a
> drawer!
>
>
> You DO know that my minimum on this coin is only $1600...if it sells
> for that, I lose money.
Coin World Values (formerly Trends) fails to satisfy in more ways than any
reader here would tolerate my pointing out. So, I'll just point out one of
them.
There is a feature whereby one can click on any price listed there and get
the history of Trends/Values for that item in that grade for the past
several years, both in the form of week-by-week data and in the form of a
graph. In real life, prices vary a bit at a time, both upward and downward,
and the graph should be a reasonably smooth curve over, say, a ten-year
period. But instead, check out any of their graphs, and you will see a
stair-step pattern in which a given price will remain static (even through
periods of boom or bust), and then take a huge leap upward in one fell
swoop. Then it will remain at that level for, usually, a very long time.
We're not talking price guides that get updated once a year, we're talking
about price guides that are, according to advertising claims, updated
weekly.
So as to preserve my reputation as an equal-opportunity skeptic, and not
just rip CW, all price guides are that way. I once had a conversation with
the price editor of a competing coin periodical and pointed out the same
issue with the documents that he provided. After squirming around and
trying to blunt my every thrust, he finally fessed up by saying, "Look, I do
this part-time, and my directions from the publisher are to make absolutely
sure that the values for Saints are up-to-date, and if I get around to doing
draped bust dimes, that's fine, but if I don't, well, too bad, there's
hardly anybody collecting those anyway."
James the Frank (not to be confused with the OP)
Anon
> "Ugly" on these sort of coins is subjective. In both cases
> the asking price is at the high end of the retail range for
> what they claim to be. And the only way I'd buy an raw proof
> trade dollar is contingent on certification.
Except for modern bullion issues and junk silver, I won't buy a coin that isn't
certified or, at least, returnable if NGC won't certify it.
Michael Benveniste
> I use Coin World Coin Values (formerly Trends)...that's been a widely
> used retail guide since 1960. A circulated AU proof is listed at $2000
> $2500 is reasonable retail for a Proof 60 even lightly cleaned.
That very source lists $2250 for an _uncleaned_ Proof 60. Still
waiting for comparables on cleaned coins.
> You DO know that my minimum on this coin is only $1600...if it sells
> for that, I lose money.
What you paid for the coin is irrelevant.
Mr. Jaggers
> "Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote:
>
>> I use Coin World Coin Values (formerly Trends)...that's been a widely
>> used retail guide since 1960. A circulated AU proof is listed at
>> $2000 $2500 is reasonable retail for a Proof 60 even lightly cleaned.
>
> That very source lists $2250 for an _uncleaned_ Proof 60. Still
> waiting for comparables on cleaned coins.
>
>> You DO know that my minimum on this coin is only $1600...if it sells
>> for that, I lose money.
>
> What you paid for the coin is irrelevant.
Exactly. When a dealer blocks my offer by telling me what he has "in" a
coin, my eyes glaze over. A simple yea or nay will do quite nicely.
James the Succinct
El Kabong
>You DO know that my minimum on this coin is only $1600...if it sells for that,
>I lose money.
What you paid for the coin in question is irrelevant in terms of what others
should pay you for it.
Do you often sell your coins for less than you paid for them?
Seems like an unwise business paradigm to me but what do I know?
Relayer
On the flip side, I buy 99.99% of coins from Ebay and for the second
time this month, the coin was of lesser grade than the pic. I think,
when I bid, I will send a note to the seller the coin needs to be
exactly as it looks in the photo. Onn the otherhad, it wasn't junk, so
I didn't leave bad feedback. I only have once