Long Beach rumor mill - two well known long time coin dealers have folded
stonej
get that information.
oly
> A sign of the economic times I guess. No names yet but I'm trying to
> get that information.
Please let us know. We would like to know exactly what "version" of
"folded".
I've thought for a year or more that banks would likely start pulling
coin dealer's operating lines of credit. It is inevitable.
oly
sgt23
Could it just be that they're old and don't want to keep working so
hard to keep their heads above float?
Mr. Jaggers
Speculation is futile until we verify the rumor and have names in hand.
James
oly
So you have the names, Sarge?
oly
Mr. Jaggers
> A sign of the economic times I guess. No names yet but I'm trying to
> get that information.
I just talked on the phone with a dealer friend of mine who is set up at the
Long Beach show. He remarked that there were some no-shows, as well as
dealers who left very early, but no el foldo rumors of any kind that he had
heard. He also observed, though, that this was one of the worst LB shows he
has attended, and he's been at all of them for 25+ years. It seems that the
majority of the money that has been changing hands at shows lately has been
in the big-name auctions, such as the Naftzger sale of copper at this show,
not on the bourse floor. He quoted a dealer from Texas who stated that this
would be his last LB show.
James
oly
Probably says something about California being deeper in the economic
vortex than many other parts of the nation. I am very happy to be in
the boring old Midwest.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
He's been telling me the same thing no matter what part of the country he is
working in. The recent shows in the Midwest haven't been barnburners,
either. Lots of tire kickers, but few buyers. On the other hand, the
perpetual complaint of not being able to find fresh material is one I hear
at every show I attend. I'm not that hard to please any more - just shove a
box or two of Civil War tokens or world coins in my face, and I'm ecstatic.
That hardly ever happens these days. I miss the times when several dealers
each would haul in a few dozen binders full of world coins mounted 20 to the
page, and the guy who set up at shows in Peoria in the 1980s with his five
double-row boxes full of CWTs.
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Those long-ago shows with big-timey dealers (and other dealers) in
Peoria were very nice indeed. I still have a few pieces acquired
there. Apparently they ended because of poor jet service to the
Illinois River City.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
An even sadder loss are the three big shows that were held at the MECCA
center in Milwaukee. Those would attract national dealers. One of them,
the summer MidAmerica show, first moved to Rosemont, near O'Hare, but now
has moved to a new convention hall in Schaumburg IL, several miles from the
airport. Time will tell if that was a good decision. The spring and fall
Milwaukee shows are not even ghosts of their former selves, one a 3-day show
that really should be a one-day show, held near the Milwaukee Airport, and
the other now a Sunday show not much different from just a small club show
and held in an area hall. Saddest of all is the once-proud North Lugburz
Numismatic Extravaganza, which has been forced, in these latter times, to
re-establish itself in open sheds at a 4-H fairgrounds, sharing billing with
a goat show, corn boil, and monster tractor demolition derby. But hey, for
five bucks you can get a breaded pork tenderloin sandwich there that just
won't quit, so life's not all bad.
James
oly
I was in Rockford from late '83 through the end of '88; went to the
big coin shows at MECCA several times, including when the ANA was held
there (the famous one where the dipsy blonde world coin dealer-ess
complained that the State Fair interferred with the coin show).
Maders was a very important part of that trip too.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
With the closing of the Berghoff in Chi, Maders is one of the few places
remaining where a guy can get a decent wiener schnitzel. Wait, why am I
always talking about food?
James
oly
Now I have been told that the Berghoff has reopened. Apparently the
"closing" was necessary to dispatch the unionized waiters. A
knowledgeable banker told me that; I have not confirmed it in person.
But I should sometime, since Harlan Berk's shop is just around the
corner.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Yes, it has re-opened, but not in its full, former glory. Read all about it
here:
The attraction of Harlan Berk's shop diminished greatly for me with the
passing of Jim Raye, who handled the world coin department.
And Mercy, have you checked what it costs to park downtown these days?
James the Nostalgic
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I go up on Amtrack if my destination is exclusively downtown. The
parking is absolutely ridiculous and Amcrash is cheap. Mr. Berk's is
still worth the visit, despite Mr. Raye's sad and untimely demise.
Mr. Berk has a good website too.
oly
mrpete...@gmail.com
the other way. coins have always been a very cyclical thing.
rockford, il show a few weeks ago was sold out (60 some tables) and
well attended.
Leo Marx
>
> A sign of the economic times I guess. No names yet but I'm trying to
> get that information.
Could just be retirement?
JAM
sgt23
>
> - Show quoted text -
I created the name back when I was working as a security guard
"supervisors basically", and it’s pretty much stuck, but that’s under
my msn messenger account from years ago.
Ira
Good grIef! Oly's right on about banks pulling dealers' lines of
credit. Some had multi million dollar lines and equally large auction
bills from Heritage, Stack's and Bowers and Merena and dealers tapped
into these lines when the bills were due in 3 months as needed. With
the lines pulled, quite a few were selling average or below average
inventory in large lots to fund these bills. Nothing really great from
what I observed at these prices, mostly Morgan and Peace dollars,
mostly NGC or ANACS graded, and either common dates or slightly better
dates, but all MS-63 or so. No gems except for the commonest material
was in these bulk lots. Since these were typically sold at 20% back of
Blue Sheet (about 40% back of Graysheet) these were immediately
flipped to the smaller dealers with a profit margin ranging from
5-10%.
I made some good buys, but nothing from these bulk lots. Bought and
sold a Pop 1 AU-58 PCGS graded 1901-S Barber 25c, a real rarity, and
sold it when I got home yesterday. In fact, 80% of what I purchased in
Long Beach has already been sold. I brought with me 5 coins that were
leftovers from FUN show purchases and all were sold to dealers, but
these were NOT common items at all. Lost some $$ on a few but all are
gone in any case. I concentrated mostly on buying much better date
Lincoln cents, some Indian cents (now mostly sold) and some difficult
Type material. eBay has been pretty poor for me of late, but thank
goodness old customers often contact me if an auction runs out and we
can generally strike a deal, even if I have to do a 60-90 day
layaway.
Let's face it. Coins are NOT a necessity that one must have. I haven't
had more than a couple of my past customers telling me they must sell
their collections. Far from it. They are just not buying like they
used to as recently as a year ago. I'll probably cut my overhead by
cutting down on my travelling to shows, keepingt just to the large
mega shows. Fortunately I don't use a line of credit so I haven't had
the legs cut out from under me, but many of the larger dealers live
large and keep a huge inventory by buying heavily in the auctions for
their. Those folks will be suffering I think. Some asked me to hold
their checks for a couple of weeks before depositing. Sign of the
times.
Ira
RWF
coin dealer and your apparent wealth.
Jolly decent of you to report it.
"Ira" <ir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:79b71bbe-b97f-4dc3...@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Ira
The fact is, Finnan, most smaller dealers like me as well as most
medium sized dealers don't rely on lines of credit to keep their
businesses going. They buy what they can afford and rely on cash flow
to pay expenses. They are not wealthy by most standards and certainly
I am not! Besides, wealthy is a relative term. I don't live large as
do the big boys and I consider myself frugal. When I go to the Long
Beach show I have dinner at the Long Beach Cafe for about $15
including coffee. I don't sip at Madisons or at any of the fancy
places. Outback's is a treat for me. So thanks for lumping me in with
the wealthy, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be accepted into their club.
Ira
RWF
>medium sized dealers don't rely on lines of credit to keep their
>businesses going.
Fact is, Stein, that I can't think of any other "dealer" that comes here
to brag about their dealings. What does that say about you?
mazorj
"RWF" <R...@200902.invalid> wrote in message
news:gmrs9j$vmq$1...@news.motzarella.org...
Not nearly as much as your obsessive compulsion to regularly flame 3
or 4 regulars here says about you.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you for the hat tip, Ira. I've been a bit worried about you,
wondered if Bernie Madoff took a bite out of you. Even if no, I'll
bet you have some acquaintances who got burned.
oly
Ira
Oly,
When you are right you're right. Still lost a big chunk of our mutual
funds, take me years, maybe a lifetime, to make that up. I plan to
keep working until I can no longer do so, so retirement is not in my
future until health issues come calling, as they do to us all. Don't
know anyone in the Madoff circle. Lots of Palm Beach Jewish moguls as
well as Hollywood producers and directors got hurt, some a lot, but
I'm not one of them.
Ira