When you have calmed down, please post a list of ten politicians, any party,
any position, any location, any era, who have not lied. OK, eight. Well,
if you insist, five. What's that you say? Two? I guess I'd accept that.
Oh, you want to name just one now? I'm all ears.
My lifeline has overlapped those of thirteen different U.S. Presidents.
Every single one of them was/is a liar. Some are better at it than others.
I'm content with a liar who respects science and its findings. Whether or
not he fixes any of the problems we have is yet to see. I wish him luck.
He'll need it.
James
Your attitude seems to be "Gee Mom, everybody else was doing it!"
You've been brainwashed by the media to adore Obama and his racist,
white-hating AG.
Obama promised change but all we are getting is the same old shit.
Go vote for Al Sharpton!
Shouldn't this thread be moved to misc.invest.stocks ?
(lolz!)
It should be obvious to you from my recent posts that I adore no politician,
including the Current Occupant and his AG. I have also noticed that you
offer no alternative to tearing everyone down. So, tell us, who do you
like, and why? Illuminate for us the way out of this mess. You can be a
hero, right here, right now.
Oh, and thanks for the broadbrush "brainwashed" put-down. Made my day.
Not.
James
I suppose a part of the good in this is that folks are starting to
notice that the new president is a politician.
I knew he was one all along. That's why my expectations are realistic.
James
A democratlin, no different than the republicrat he replaced.
Yeah he should just wave his magic wand, make it so, and we can all sing
"kumbaya" around the campfire.
Who is the peace candidate? Never heard of him.
Given that nothing of major consequence in public policy
gets done outside of our democracy's political process, I'm
glad top see that Obama is finally exercising his political
chops. The last thing we need is an ivory tower idealist
who can't translate his ideals and goals into legislation
and executive branch actions. The Bush administration was a
master of the political process but had no discernible
ideals beyond cronyism. Jimmy Carter was a high-minded
idealist who couldn't get any major pieces of his agenda put
into action. Obama may have the rare combination of
reformist ideals and the political savvy to make things
happen. Which is what scares the hell out of conservatives,
from Limbaugh (who now accuses Obama of being fascist) to
the Republicans in Congress. Which is why they have
mobilized an all-out effort to block Obama at every turn.
I have both rightwing and leftwing components about me, but it's beyond me
how anyone, even an arch conservative, can stand to listen to Limbaugh's
yelling and name-calling for three hours a day. My (formerly) favorite coin
dealer took to doing just that, during store hours, some years ago, and he
is just a basket case now. It'll take some serious deprogramming for him to
be fit for meeting the public again, but he has now decided to close his
shop, so I guess I won't ever know how he ends up. He was really a good
guy, and a consummately honest one, and I enjoyed doing business with him
for almost two decades before politics and religion came into the
relationship. Sad.
James
Canada has been our largest trading partner for years. We had NAFTA
type agreemments with them long before Mexico was ever brought into
the equation. Trade with the United States accounted for about 76% of
exports and 65% of imports as of 2007.
Also, could BO actually be going after OBL and the rest of the sorry
ass radical militant Islamic scumbags instead of focusing on
continuing fighting in Bush's meaningless quagmire in Iraq?
There and the Pakistan border region IS where the root of the problem
exists, don't you know?
Given that nothing of any consequence in public policy
happens except through our democracy's political processes,
I'm glad to see Obama starting to exercise his political
chops. The last thing we need is an ivory tower idealist
who can't translate his words into legislation and executive
branch actions. The Bush administration was a master of
politics but had no discernible goals beyond cronyism.
OTOH, Jimmy Carter was an ineffectual idealist. With Obama
we may have the rare combination of a reformer who knows how
to get things done.
Yes, politics is messy and even dirty and it requires
compromises. But complaining about that aspect of politics
not only is a useless waste of time, in the end it scorns
the democratic processes that have made our republic so
great. As Churchill said, democracy is the worst possible
system of governance, except for all the others we have
tried. I wish everyone would just get over it and focus on
what's doable rather than just ineffectually railing against
"the system" and the fact that it requires politicians to
effect the politics of a democracy.
(My barbs are not aimed at James. I know that he and a few
others here "get it". I have a similar problem with people
who make the same kinds of complaints about the news media
when they don't understand how that works and the role of
the First Amendment. Making the perfect the enemy of the
good is not the road to salvation.)
No, the root of the problem lies in the USA's inexplicable continued
support of the illegal gangster Zionist entity.
So maybe we should support the radical Islamic kook regimes instead?
Maybe we should stop trying to be the world's policeman and forge
alliances with those countries who can benefit us the most.
Like Canada?
And BTW I agree with the world's policeman comment.
So that is why you pester Ira. The truth finally comes out.
Anyone who has read Michael Scheuer's books would say that you are both
correct.
James
>Like Canada?
Exactly like Canada.
Canada, unlike Mexico, has a high standard of living, pays its workers
comparatively well and isn't in bed with drug smugglers.
We should end all foreign aid and deal with other countries solely on
business terms, regardless of their internal politics.
Ah, you are a disciple of Michael Scheurer, then. Not bad. Not bad at all.
James
Do you mean Michael Scheuer?
At any rate, I'm not a disciple of anyone except myself.
I think he pesters Ira because he understands that, generally
speaking, Ira's only motivation to interact with this NG is to hawk
his overpriced coins that are invariably "just a whisper away" from
the next grade.
Ira is a Zionist?!?!?!?!
Furthermore...
1. Even in the RNC news release pillorying Obama on NAFTA,
all but one of the quotes attributed to him spoke in terms
of modifying NAFTA to get improved worker and environmental
protections. This is standard code for getting Mexico to
make it easier for its workers engaged in NAFTA trade to
unionize, and to clean up their polluting industries and
long-haul trucks. He has been far more ambiguous on
changing NAFTA to cut off or reduce free trade to protect
U.S workers, so you can hardly bash him for not moving to
repudiate NAFTA or for trying to calm fears of U.S.
protectionism. (BTW, NAFTA was enacted under that "damned
librul," Bill Clinton. Airline deregulation came under
Carter and was championed by Ted Kennedy. Go figure.)
2. Any and all promises (express or implied) during the
primaries *have to* be re-evaluated in terms of the current
economic meltdown and spending packages. Under
extraordinary circumstances like the current conditions,
something's gotta give and if it's your ox that gets gored
in the trim-backs, well, sorry, maybe better luck in the
future after we attend to our #1` priority, getting the
economy back on track.
> Who is the peace candidate? Never heard of him.
And they were sent to Afghanistan, where he and every other
intelligent observer says our real war on terrorism should
be focused and not in Iraq. So Obama gets whacked if he
doesn't fill a campaign promise and whacked if fulfills his
promise to fight the war where it needs to be fought.
Another factor here is that every newly elected president
gets tested, and has to establish credibility that he's not
a push-over for those who are opposed to America's
interests. That may or may not explain and justify sending
more troops, but the discourse isn't helped by RF's typical
ranting that 17,000 soldiers "were sent there to die."
Remember Patton's dictum that a soldier's duty is not to die
for his country, it's to make the other poor SOB die for
his.
Anyone who wants to keep score on O's promises should try
getting it from a reliable source like www.politifact.com
which today sent around the following scorecard:
One month into the Obama presidency, here's a recap of how
he's doing on our Obameter:
Promises Kept - 14
Compromise - 3
Promises Broken - 2
Stalled - 1
In the Works - 19
That sounds a lot more effective than most presidents have
been in their first 30 days.
Sorry about the misspelling.
James
Pictures of his home, that he used to post here, show a house decorated with
wreaths and Christmas trees.
James
Never mind James, that imbecile PC just tried to hoist up that old
canard that anyone who opposes the illegal gangster Zionist entity must
be anti-Semitic.
Just so that knucklehead understands:
Zionism is a political movement, not unlike that of Nazism.
Judaism is a religion and, like all religions, is about 99% bullshit.
> After campaigning on a promise to restructure the failed NAFTA deal, BO
> went to Canada and stated the agreement would not be changed.
Source? Reuters is reporting that Obama wants "labor and environmental
provisions:"
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSWBT010680
That seems not inconsistent with the policy stated
here of "fixing NAFTA."
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/economy/
> Oh yeah - the "peace" candidate just sent 17,000 more soldiers to die in
> Afghanistan.
I'm not an Obama fan, but he did say that he wanted to send more
at least 10,0000 more troops into Afghanistan during the campaign:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/15/barackobama.usa1
--
Michael Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification required)
Legalize Updoc.
The only "fix" NAFTA needs is to be repealed by the USA to be replaced
with a Canadian-American trade agreement.
Mexico has proved itself unworthy to be included.
The USA should sue Mexico for the trillions of dollars they stole from
us under the guise of "free trade".
Ross Perot was right!
Furthermore, the penalty for illegal entry into the USA should be death!
>> Oh yeah - the "peace" candidate just sent 17,000 more soldiers to die
>> in Afghanistan.
>
> I'm not an Obama fan, but he did say that he wanted to send more
> at least 10,0000 more troops into Afghanistan during the campaign:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/15/barackobama.usa1
See 17,000 is more than 10,000. Didn't they teach you that in Barack
Obama school?
Hmmm, I'm wondering about that 1% that isn't.
James
Whatever you think of Israel, the root cause of the problem is more
nearly the persistent taste in the west (esp. USA and Europe) for
certain refned delicacies from agricultural products that grow in
other regions of the world together with our idiosynchratic notions
about rewarding the purveyors of these exotic delicacies.
>>>
>>> Ira is a Zionist?!?!?!?!
>>
>> Pictures of his home, that he used to post here, show a house decorated
>> with wreaths and Christmas trees.
>
> Never mind James, that imbecile PC just tried to hoist up that old canard
> that anyone who opposes the illegal gangster Zionist entity must be
> anti-Semitic.
Nice attempt at wiggling and dodging. You have been outed. It is obvious
by your constant and continual attempts to "explain" how misguided I am that
I have you pegged. Me think thou doth protest too much.
Nice job. Keep up the ol' Rod Blagoyevich routine. This should be good.
RF's Mr. Hyde persona is really off his meds tonight! Death
penalties for illegal entry?
>>> Oh yeah - the "peace" candidate just sent 17,000 more
>>> soldiers to die in Afghanistan.
>>
>> I'm not an Obama fan, but he did say that he wanted to
>> send more
>> at least 10,0000 more troops into Afghanistan during the
>> campaign:
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/15/barackobama.usa1
>
> See 17,000 is more than 10,000. Didn't they teach you that
> in Barack Obama school?
17,000 is "at least" 10,000 but Mr. Hyde, aka RF, obviously
is too far gone tonight to understand math logic, either.
>Whatever you think of Israel, the root cause of the problem is more
>nearly the persistent taste in the west (esp. USA and Europe) for
certain refned delicacies from agricultural products that grow in other
regions of the world together with our idiosynchratic notions about
rewarding the purveyors of these exotic delicacies.
Yeah right. Drugs are the problem.
Simple answer- legalize 'em and tax them.
America learned nothing from Prohibition.
Obama went to Canada and at a joint press conference with the Canadian PM
spoke of the need to modify NAFTA. The Canadian PM expressed,
diplomatically, that he is not open to the idea.
--
*
/?\
/___\
-O=O-
^
AS & His Magic Hat
A conclusion is simply the place
where you decided to stop thinking.
Obama moderated his stance on NAFTA well before the Democratic Primary
http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?id=2820
He also promised to greatly expand US forces in Afghanistan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/15/barackobama.usa1
Finnan's off-topic post can be reported to ab...@motzarella.org
You're such a little whiney bitch Fwankie.
Look for the link at the bottom of the page.
Just to set the record straight, my wife belongs to a Presbyterian
church now but was raised Catholic. We observe both Christmas and
Hannukah in December. I am Jewish, and although not a Zionist, as I
believe some of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians are
counterproductive. However, that said, I support their right to defend
themselves against hostile attacks from teh natioms that surround
them. If I and my family lived in Israel, perhaps I would harden my
position against neighbors that were trying to kill us.
At the end of WWII, no nations, not even the USA, wanted to accept
the influx of displaced Jews who barely survived the concentration
camps. Great Britain allowed them to move into Palestine then under
British rule. Palestine was then a bleak and arid country, then
primarily undeveloped. Of course, the Palestines were not happy about
this inlux, and the War of Independence in 1948 ensued. The
Palestininian leadership urged the Palestinians to flee into "camps,"
although the Jewish settlers begged them to stay in their homes and
not flee and they would not be harmed. This was mostly ignored.
Anyway, enough about this. RCC is not a history discussion group.
As far as my paricipation in these discussions, virtually every
response I post is followed by abusive attacks. I find it tiresome.
Ira
That's probably how the Palestinians feel about the Israelis who stole
their land and are currently murdering their women and children.
Great Britain had no right to sieze Palestine, much less offer it as a
homeland for the racist Zionists.
Hiya OZ!!!
Why do you feel an obligation to join in this thread, UNLESS, of
course, you enjoy the abuse??? I can't see where you were mentioned
previously.
If you are feeling lonely, we can start another thread and abuse you
about coins, not religion.
oly
Look directly above this post, and you will see that there was first a
discussion involving three RCC regulars - PC, realitycheck, and RWF - and
then I, Jaggers, picked up and ran with the ball a few yards. Ira's
response was to my post. My intention was to inform, not antagonize. But I
have obviously antagonized, so my bad. Not a good turn for talk to take.
My apologies all around.
James
Oh, sure it is. One cannot talk of coins without talking of history. I'd
also observe that this entire thread developped from a political position
statement, to which I was the first to respond, in an effort to shed light,
not heat. Perhaps if I had stayed my hand, none of this discussion would
have ensued. But I didn't, and it did. I hope that my own participation
will be seen as civil discourse by my readers.
> As far as my paricipation in these discussions, virtually every
> response I post is followed by abusive attacks. I find it tiresome.
While I could cite sources that would take issue with some of what you have
written above, my own position is that the issue cannot and will not ever be
settled, Tim LaHaye notwithstanding. To date, 60+ years of recent history
have borne me out. So far as I can tell, that is not an attack, but an
observation that can be verified.
James
Indeed, one cannot talk about coins without talking about history.
100% agreed.
oly
1. who to buy coins from and who to avoid (I spend about 9 k a year on
coins...been collecting since 1958).
2. who has any idea what has happened in the coin world and more importantly
what has happened in the world over the past
60 years I've been around. It is unfortunate that people who did not
experience the past usually do no believe in it.
3. Who in this group has purposely distorted their own life because of their
hard knocks.
4. Who in this group, that has been (honestly... lurking) around more than 3
years and has honestly tried to be informative about
coins.
5. Who in this group believes in numistmatics and who just needs amusement.
6. I enjoy collecting...I enjoy the hunt. I thought that is what this group
is for.
7. I also enjoy a good argument, a good debate, no need to get ugly, we can
agree to disagree.
This being an unmoderated newsgroup, unusual among coin groups, you will
find people in their more or less unabashed states. You will also see
topics that are mightily frowned upon by some. That's OK. Anyone who
participates here, whether by just reading, or actually jumping into the hog
wallow that sometimes ensues, has the right/obligation/power to read or not
read some or all of a given poster's contributions. I rarely killfile,
other than the crossposters and drive-by one-timers, as I like to experience
the group in its natural state. Feel free to chime in at any time. Coin
life is good!
James
All of which are the signs of a successful newsgroup. While some
readers would prefer that posts consist of nothing but on-topic
material, the nature of the Internet makes that impossible when there
is no adult supervision (a.k.a. a moderator). And if you excluded
everything that wasn't precisely on the topic of the original charter,
most newsgroup traffic would be pretty sparse.
A successful newsgroup has to attract and keep a core community of
readership with regulars, lurkers, and newbies. It's a virtual
version of the corner bar or barber shop, a global village where
people with one shared interest come together to gab about whatever is
on their minds. Like any conversation, threads will veer off in many
directions. The key is that the discourse has to be interesting to at
least some segment of the audience. That means that in part it must
be on topic and informative, but it also must be lively, witty, and
yes, even entertaining. There are lines that should not be crossed,
but within those boundaries there is a lot of room to run around in.
For example, for several of us "seniors," giving historical
perspectives to the youngsters is particularly important.
For a newsgroup that focuses on a narrow and specialized subject (as
opposed to, say, religion or politics) rcc is doing pretty well. Glad
you were able to get so much out of our give-and-take. I see you've
posted a few times here going back to last May. You're always welcome
to come out of the lurkers' shadows more often and join the fray.
-- John Mazor
"The search for wisdom is asymptotic."
"Except for Internet newsgroups, where it is divergent..."
-- R J Carpenter
The Jews have the title deed, not Esau's children.
--
Civis Romanus Sum
Right now, good American judges are asking those mortgagees attemtping
to foreclose to produce the original note, or to get the hell out of
their courts.
Pehaps if the good Israelis could simply produce the orginal deed,
that might be constructive.
oly
Try reading the Bible sometime.
--
Civis Romanus Sum
*snippage*
Well I, for one, am glad you decided to de-lurk and join the discussion.
Sometimes I think RCC is hopeless then I go and read a sports NG and realize
this is one of the better NGs around...
Try one of the saxophone groups and see how long your neck remains intact.
James
Or Grimm's Fairy Tales?
>Sometimes I think RCC is hopeless then I go and read a sports NG and realize
>this is one of the better NGs around...
Although sometimes it gets pretty far off topic and has a few
personal attacks it tends to eventually get back to numismatics.
Best Regards,
Bob Johnson
Psalm 14:1
--
Civis Romanus Sum
You are a gullible idiot, Higgins.