The new UHRs
mazorj
sliding price scale, it should start at $1,189.
Any thoughts out there on how well the demand and resale price for it
will hold up as a collectible? It's priced way too far over melt to
hold as bullion, and as we all know, certain coins and sets are like
new cars. They start depreciating as soon as they come off the lot
and never make a come-back. Others hold their value well and even
appreciate because in later years the demand outweighs the supply.
If I get one, it will be for the purely sensory pleasures of beholding
its design, composition and esthetics. If I get any more, they would
be held with an eye toward later resale. I doubt that I would lose
money on them, but if you can get close to 5% on safely investing the
same money elsewhere and if UHR resale pricing is stagnant, then
you're 5% behind in the game.
We're trying to read tea leaves here while the water isn't even
finished boiling, but the investment question is, will the UHRs be
"special" enough to outperform the usual record for modern gold
issues?
-- John Mazor
"The search for wisdom is asymptotic."
"Except for Internet newsgroups, where it is divergent..."
-- R J Carpenter
PC
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:5mIdl.1183$aI1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> We're trying to read tea leaves here while the water isn't even finished
> boiling, but the investment question is, will the UHRs be "special" enough
> to outperform the usual record for modern gold issues?
>
The one item per household may help. But that could change. This could be
like the Platinum 20th Anniversary Proof set. Very rare but so expensive
most are not even interested.
The Presibux Gold Spouse coins looked like a winner - that is until after
Washington.
Ask yourself this - what recent coins from the US Mint have gone way up in
value in the after market? It seems to me it is mostly their silver
offerings. Admittedly though I have not been following their gold issues as
closely but last year's "Lucky 8" and Gold Buffalo were not exactly flying
out of the warehouse.
I will probably get one for myself to actually collect. If the price goes
way up then I might sell. I am personally loathe to throw a lot of
speculative money at this one.
Bruce Remick
"PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
news:gl7llq$obg$1...@news.motzarella.org...
When the price of a Mint-produced bullion gold coin is comparable to a nice
BU St. Gaudens $20, I would be more inclined to spend my $1,200 on the St.
Gaudens, especially when the price of gold keeps trying to retreat back
beneath $800 while the price of BU SG's seems to be creeping upward. IMO,
if there will be any price appreciation over the next ten years, the 1oz SG
should outperform the 1oz bullion coin, unless the new UHR were to be a one
time issue. Although I'm not into bullion as a collection item, I would
probably be interested in scraping enough money for one of the new high
relief examples, but no more. Too expensive for me as a series, the same as
the spouse gold coins. I felt the same way about the Buffalo gold coins,
but still never have bought one.
PC
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:icJdl.126444$3_4....@newsfe10.iad...
>
>>
>> I will probably get one for myself to actually collect. If the price
>> goes way up then I might sell. I am personally loathe to throw a lot of
>> speculative money at this one.
>
> When the price of a Mint-produced bullion gold coin is comparable to a
> nice BU St. Gaudens $20, I would be more inclined to spend my $1,200 on
> the St. Gaudens, especially when the price of gold keeps trying to retreat
> back beneath $800 while the price of BU SG's seems to be creeping upward.
Sound advice indeed. Why not get the real McCoy? (Wow, I am almost too
young to have actually heard that term)
*snippage*
> I felt the same way about the Buffalo gold coins, but still never have
> bought one.
>
Ha! You know, I was pretty sure I wanted a Buffalo gold coin - wanted to
maybe even try to get the series - but I still have yet to come close to
ordering one. Hmmm....
Jon Purkey
>"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:icJdl.126444$3_4....@newsfe10.iad...
>>
>>>
>>> I will probably get one for myself to actually collect. If the price
>>> goes way up then I might sell. I am personally loathe to throw a lot of
>>> speculative money at this one.
>>
>> When the price of a Mint-produced bullion gold coin is comparable to a
>> nice BU St. Gaudens $20, I would be more inclined to spend my $1,200 on
>> the St. Gaudens, especially when the price of gold keeps trying to retreat
>> back beneath $800 while the price of BU SG's seems to be creeping upward.
>
>Sound advice indeed. Why not get the real McCoy? (Wow, I am almost too
>young to have actually heard that term)
If I decide to get one I will go for a common date original. Even a
certified one should not be much more than the new version unless the
resale price drops significantly in the next couple years.
Does the price of the original coins fluctuate with the price of gold
or is there a minimum numismatic price they never go under?
Mr. Jaggers
My observation is that the nicer coins are in the custody of dealers who are
not in any hurry to part with them, so when the price of gold drops, their
owners view them as so much "money in the bank" and wait out the drop.
James
Leo Marx
> When the price of a Mint-produced bullion gold coin is comparable to a nice
> BU St. Gaudens $20, I would be more inclined to spend my $1,200 on the St.
> Gaudens,
Me too! Expensive gift ware just doesn't appeal to me.
JAM
Bruce Remick
"Jon Purkey" <room32...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1kven4t7ph07f3d8d...@4ax.com...
If the prices asked by the big 2-page advertisers in CW and NN are any
indication, as the price of gold has trended downward since mid-2008, the
asking prices of a BU St. Gaudens in these same ads has crept upward some
$300 in that time. Meanwhile, the asking price of Gold American Eagles has
more closely followed the price fluctuations of gold.
I would be more excited about buying one of the new high relief bullion
coins if it had been made in the same thickness and diameter of the
original. This new version is essentially half the diameter and twice the
thickness and looks more like a novelty than something reminiscent of the
original. The real test will be to hold one in person-- not actually
touching it of course, just holding the holder that holds the gold.
RWF
IIRC the original specimen UHR double eagle pattern was struck on 2
eagle planchets.
Michael Benveniste
> Any thoughts out there on how well the demand and resale price for it
> will hold up as a collectible? It's priced way too far over melt to
> hold as bullion, and as we all know, certain coins and sets are like
> new cars. They start depreciating as soon as they come off the lot
> and never make a come-back. Others hold their value well and even
> appreciate because in later years the demand outweighs the supply.
FWIW, the US Mint site is currently totally overloaded. Again.
--
Michael Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification required)
Nid wif yn y swyddfa ar hyn o bryd. Anfonwch ar unrhyw waith i'w
gyfieithu.
Jon Purkey
wrote:
Thanks. That's interesting. I wonder if the pricing partly has to do
with what they bought the coins for or what gold was selling for when
they placed their ads? I assume there is a considerable lead time for
publishing like with other magazines.
>I would be more excited about buying one of the new high relief bullion
>coins if it had been made in the same thickness and diameter of the
>original. This new version is essentially half the diameter and twice the
>thickness and looks more like a novelty than something reminiscent of the
>original. The real test will be to hold one in person-- not actually
>touching it of course, just holding the holder that holds the gold.
I should probably Google it, but what are the measurements of the new
UHR coin? I believe the original St. Gaudens was 34 mm in diameter?
A coin with twice the thickness needs about 70-71% the diameter to
have the same amount of gold, not factoring in the 22k vs. 24k
difference. 24mm would be my guesstimate.
mazorj
"Michael Benveniste" <m...@murkyether.com> wrote in message
news:6trplnF...@mid.individual.net...
> "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Any thoughts out there on how well the demand and resale price for
>> it will hold up as a collectible? It's priced way too far over
>> melt to hold as bullion, and as we all know, certain coins and sets
>> are like new cars. They start depreciating as soon as they come
>> off the lot and never make a come-back. Others hold their value
>> well and even appreciate because in later years the demand
>> outweighs the supply.
>
> FWIW, the US Mint site is currently totally overloaded. Again.
They apparently never learn. I hope it clears up by tomorrow, when
IIRC they start selling the Lincoln cent sets. Gotta get a few for
the kids and me.
From the investment angle, I'll still be interested to see how much
the UHRs will appreciate over 5-10 years, especially after we see the
end of the short-term waves of flipping them on e-Bay and Craig's List
at $100-$200 over Mint prices. Based on my impression of how the gold
Buffalo issues fared, I suspect that the UHRs won't be significantly
outperforming even the safe 4%-5% investment fund options that
currently are available.
So if I do get one, it will be for the esthetic pleasure to have and
to hold, until death or insolvency do us part.
PC
>
>> Any thoughts out there on how well the demand and resale price for it
>> will hold up as a collectible? It's priced way too far over melt to hold
>> as bullion, and as we all know, certain coins and sets are like new cars.
>> They start depreciating as soon as they come off the lot and never make a
>> come-back. Others hold their value well and even appreciate because in
>> later years the demand outweighs the supply.
>
> FWIW, the US Mint site is currently totally overloaded. Again.
>
The first opportunity I had to see it actually in the catalog and it says:
"Product will be available for shipping 02/06/2009"
:-(
RWF
It will be interesting to see how many dealers have multiples of 1200
bucks + grading fees to toss around.
No doubt the coming months will present us with eBay auctions and ads
for MS70 "First Strikes" for $2000+
It IS a pretty coin but $1200 is too rich for my blood.
Rav
<snip>
> They apparently never learn. I hope it clears up by tomorrow, when
> IIRC they start selling the Lincoln cent sets. Gotta get a few for
> the kids and me.
Could you point me to where on the US Mint website there's any
information on when they'll be selling the Lincoln cent sets? Thanks.
.
Michael Benveniste
> "Product will be available for shipping 02/06/2009"
>
> :-(
By the time I could get my order through and paid for, that's
the anticipated product ship date I got as well. Good thing
that wasn't planning to resell ASAP.
--
Michael Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification required)
The man who sets out to carry a cat by its tail learns something
that will always be useful and which never will grow dim or
doubtful. -- Mark Twain
mazorj
"Rav" <Pa...@cais.com> wrote in message
news:XT4el.25739$u14....@newsfe21.iad...
Actually, I got it from one of Susan Headley's columns. She stated
the date from Mint sources, I just put it on my calendar to check the
Mint site then.
PC
> "PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote:
>
>> "Product will be available for shipping 02/06/2009"
>>
>> :-(
>
> By the time I could get my order through and paid for, that's
> the anticipated product ship date I got as well. Good thing
> that wasn't planning to resell ASAP.
>
No doubt someone is sweating out a pre-sale action on eBay :-)
Clearly, all that was available today was the ability to order the product.
The product was not at all available today from what I can tell. Makes me
halfway seriously wonder if they get the money first, buy the gold, then
mint them?
mazorj
I doubt that the Mint practices the old entrepreneur's dodge of "get
enough advance buyers' money to make the item, then make and ship it".
The ship date is listed as exactly two weeks, so maybe that's just SOP
now under some policy of "honesty in shipping times for new products".
mazorj
Oops. It's on my calendar for next Friday, the 30th. Sorry.
George D
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/ultrahigh/index.cfm?action=case4
2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin specifications:
* 1.000 troy ounce
* .9999 pure gold
* 4 mm thickness
* 27 mm diameter
* 2 strikes at 65 metric tons