Flamewars and Lawsuits on rec.collecting.coins
Arizona Coin Collector
I was not aware that some people have filed lawsuits because
people posting on "rec.collecting.coins" were being
flamed. There has been more than one lawsuit on this
newsgroup. Base on what I have seen in this group, the
only winners are the lawyers who collected the legal
fees.
What I am not sure of, was the lawsuits directed
At the individual postings, or at
"rec.collecting.coins"?
I was checking to see if any lawsuits are still
active. I have so far not found any yet. Still
searching. Below is what I came across from
2005.
---------------------------------------------
FROM:
http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v08n39a18.html
---- SNIP ----
Being privately owned, some online forums do
attempt a level of decorum. Others do not. The
Usenet newsgroups are infamous for their flamewars.
Both of those parameters can be "good" or "bad"
depending on the context. The recent spate of
lawsuits between Accugrade and the ANA and others
began with posts on rec.collecting.coins, within
the first month that the group received its Usenet
charter. No print publication could afford to
discuss a subject so aggressively. On the other
hand, many forums are purposely low-key to avoid
the negativity of unbridled comment. The decisions
come from the owners of the websites. Unlike print,
websites have very low start-up costs. Anyone
can have one.
--- SNIP ----
Mr. Jaggers
> Hello
>
> I was not aware that some people have filed lawsuits because
> people posting on "rec.collecting.coins" were being
> flamed. There has been more than one lawsuit on this
> newsgroup. Base on what I have seen in this group, the
> only winners are the lawyers who collected the legal
> fees.
>
> What I am not sure of, was the lawsuits directed
> At the individual postings, or at
> "rec.collecting.coins"?
>
> I was checking to see if any lawsuits are still
> active. I have so far not found any yet. Still
> searching. Below is what I came across from
> 2005.
Here's some advice, ignore it at your peril:
Don't stir up hornets' nests.
'Nuff said.
James
sgt23
>
> - Show quoted text -
I say stir, maybe it would cause a few people here to leave.
Mr. Jaggers
Much more likely it is that it would cause a few people you really don't
want to see here to arrive. But, suit yourself. Stir to your heart's
content. We'll watch.
James
sgt23
I thought that was already true, but this has already been brought up
before and nothing happen. So the same will probably happen again.
RWF
news:7dc628b2-d392-4513...@x38g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>I say stir, maybe it would cause a few people here to leave.
Sarge, you ninny, the person most people would want to leave is YOU!
Scott Stevenson
Without going into too many details, the people who got sued were
probably not the ones you're thinking of. I was one of them.
take care,
Scott
Phil DeMayo
> Hello
>
> I was not aware that some people have filed lawsuits because
> people posting on "rec.collecting.coins" were being
Uuh....this is not correct. Nobody who posted here filed a lawsuit
because they were being flamed.
What exactly is your point? Feeling a bit warm?
sgt23
If I remember right their were two law suits here. One was due to
people here smearing a certain grading companies name here. The other
was because of some members of this group ruining another person name
or such. But I don't think even 90% of the people involved in either
case still read here. Maybe James is right we should just leave this
in the past.
Mr. Jaggers
Thank you! Now, onward and upward.
James
Bruce Remick
***************
We?
Mr. Jaggers
What you mean "we", Kimo Sabe?
Tonto
sgt23
On Feb 4, 8:46 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
> Bruce Remick wrote:
> > "sgt23" <bravesfandevo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Tonto- Hide quoted text -
RWF
>Well I sure as well didn't start the discussion!
Nothing like a good non sequitur from our resident buffoon.
I'm conviced they dropped you on your head multiple times when you were
a baby, Sarge.
Frank Provasek
ANA coin club when there
is no way that the ANA can control what is posted here. Thus when
discussion about a particular
grading company's standards turned to libel as shown in item 16 here
http://www.swcgs.com/ASA_v_ANA.html
The ANA was dragged into a lawsuit along with the individuals sued.
RWF
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:458f8f38-a31b-43ab...@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Gary Lewis showed incredibly poor judgement by making RCC an official
> ANA coin club when there
> is no way that the ANA can control what is posted here.
I liked him better when he was recording with The Playboys.
Jud
What Gary Lewis did was to pay, out of his own pocket, for a meeting
room so that RCC'ers could meet face to face at the ANA convention. He
didn't ask for anything in return, what I consider to be quite
altruistic. Of course, for a 'club' to have a meeting room, they have
to be an ANA member club, which again, Gary paid for. You say that it
was extremely poor judgement on his part. I don't see it that way. I
see it as being a 'good guy'. He didn't ask for anything in return,
much less involving the ANA in a lawsuit.
Mr. Jaggers
Proof of the old maxim that no good deed ever goes unpunished.
James
Mike Marotta
posting on "rec.collecting.coins" were being flamed."
Well, pard, as you asked (and as you springboarded that with an
article I wrote), let me suggest how to find the ugly details.
With the Advanced Search in Google Groups, look for ACCUGRADE in the
subject. From that, you will find content that can suggest other
search terms and thereby many threads to follow.
It is true, as I said in that article you linked, that as soon as RCC
got its Usenet charter back in 1994 some people complained about the
Accugrade service -- but I hasten to point out that complaints were
(and remain) common. You can find posts complaining about PCGS, NGC,
ANACS and ICG, as well as eBay, Heritage, and how often Numismatic
News and Coin World do not arrive on time via second class mail.
That said, from about mid-2001, traffic on the subject of ACCUGRADE
accelerated and took on a decidedly personalized tone. In 2004, Diane
and Alan Hager brought, I believe, two separate suits in federal
courts.
(Frank Provasek's #15 in this thread links to one of those filings.
The plaintiffs filed at least one amendment to that. Again, you can
get into all of the details on your own. It provides hours of
reading. The plaintiffs had a long list of wrongs and a long list of
defendants.)
Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"Archives live forever."
(August 22, 1994, first posts from the old co...@cobra.uni.edu
maillist appeared as USENET traffic.)
realcoin...@yahoo.com
> "Archives live forever."
This is not true, but archives by their definition last over some
period of time. The folowing posts by Michael Marotta, which are part
of the Google Groups archive, bring light on this situation with
regard to the attitude of Michael Marotta about Accugrade and coin
collectors in general.
Michael Marotta, using the handle Mike Echo Mike, wrote this in this
newsgroup on Feb. 3, 2001:
"Alan Hager [the Acugrade founder] has built a profitable business by
supplying to people something they want at a price they are willing to
pay. That is in and of itself the noblest human endeavor."
You can read the entire post here:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.collecting.coins/msg/4df4b2a116dbc345
Aside from an Accugrade employee, Michael Marotta was the only person
in the coin world to publicly support and defend Accugrade and its
practices. The same day, Michael Marotta attacked Byron Reed for
suggesting a boycott of Accugrade:
"You are NOBODY. You have no publications in the hobby. You work as a
press operator for a printing plant in North Dakota. You have no
college degree in numismatics. You do not own or operate an industry
recognized auction firm or numismatic dealership. If you are a member
of the ANA, you have not mentioned it and if you are a member of the
PNG or IAPN, I would be astounded. You have never delivered a
Numismatic Theater Presentation at an ANA convention. You have never
taught an ANA Summer Seminar Class. In short, you are no different
than 100,000 coin acquireres who claim that they know more than anyone
else in the hobby about their own self-defined area of speciality."
You can read the entire post here:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.collecting.coins/msg/33e09a5aa287fa53
Another funny thing. In the above post Michael Marotta confused Byron
Reed with Brad Reed. Michael Marotta thought he was attacking the Brad
Reed for suggesting a boycott of Accugrade!
Michael Marotta's support and defense of Accugrade is understandable
because of him open dislike of coin collectors and his public
acceptance of cheating. On June 30, 2001, in a thread Michael Marota
started in the newsgroup humanities.philosophy.objectivism, a thread
that he named "Coin Collectors are Bullies", Michael Marotta wrote:
"The most successful collectors and dealers I have met are people who
display obvious symptoms of low self esteem: slouching for instance.
Lying about anything and everything from the weather to the published
price of a coin is typical."
You can read the entire post here:
http://groups.google.com/group/humanities.philosophy.objectivism/msg/34990e037d4ed640?dmode=source
In another post by Michael Marotta in defense of cheating, in a thread
in this newsgroup that he started on December 10, 2000, and named,
"Dishonest Collectors", Michael Marotta wrote:
"Once we accept that a transaction is freely entered into, whether or
not someone gets "cheated" is irrelevant."
You can read the entire post here:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.collecting.coins/msg/81901bb967b1f513
What a character.
Brought to you as a public service!
Mike Marotta
> ... The folowing posts by Michael Marotta, which are part
> of the Google Groups archive, bring light ...
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.collecting.coins/msg/4df4b2a116dbc345
>... The same day, Michael Marotta attacked Byron Reed for
> "You are NOBODY. You have no publications in the hobby. You work as a
> Lying about anything and everything from the weather to the published
> price of a coin is typical."
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.collecting.coins/msg/81901bb967b1f513
> Brought to you as a public service!
Cha-ching! Badda-bing!! Nice shot!
As I was reading the Accugrade Chronicles the other night, I found a
reference to my insult of Byron Reed but did not find the original
post. So, thanks for helping me to remember. I also forgot about the
posts to the Objectivst newsgroup. Again, thank you for the lesson in
humility.
Mike M.
Michael E. Marotta
"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,"
--- Robert Burns
"To a Louse"
Ian
> "O wad some Power the giftie gie us
> To see oursels as ithers see us!
> It wad frae monie a blunder free us,"
> --- Robert Burns
> "To a Louse"
At this rate you'll be drinking Talisker before you know it.
Ian
realcoin...@yahoo.com
you really humble or are you a coward who cant take responsibility for
what he says. You said coin collectors as a group are liars and
bullies, and you said they have low self esteem. Your also defended
cheating and cheaters. Your one messed up dude.
realcoin...@yahoo.com
You said coin collectors as a group are liars and bullies. You also
said coin collectors have low self esteem. Did you mean this stuff or
were you doing your big talking? Dont say I misquoting you because I
quoted your words. Dont say you were quoted out of contest because I
linked to your entire posts.
Whats with you really? Do you think coin collectors are liars and
bullies? Did you think that then and change your mind. Did you never
think this but said it anyway? You were talking about coin collectors
as a GROUP that was clear.
And whats with your defending cheaters and cheating? You did more than
defend, you praised this. Can you explain this?
Your the one who said archives are forever. Haha. Wierdo nutcase who
writes for the ANA. Why dont you write about how you feel about coin
collectors for the ANA.
Aladdin Sane
Is your individual and unique self esteem so low you have to continue this
in a public venue? Give it a rest.
Oh, and your blocked.
--
*
/?\
/___\
-O=O-
^
AS & His Magic Hat
A conclusion is simply the place
where you decided to stop thinking.
<realcoin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5481c996-1cb1-4e49...@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Mike Marotta
> At this rate you'll be drinking Talisker before you know it.
Well, I was never much of a drinker. I went most of my many years
without it. Then we got stranded in northern Michigan, taking care of
my wife's parents until we closed out their estate. I learned a lot
about beer -- and a little bit about tobacco. Looking to the next
chapter, we decided to complete the four-year degrees we never
needed. We both graduated in April 2008, summa cum laude. The
downside is that it required so much hard thinking first thing in the
morning that I had to give up the other pleasures and vices. But,
just to thank you for the recommendation -- I went out online and read
about the peat and water -- when I decide to jump off the wagon, I
will start with Talisker.
At seven o' clock each mornin', at five o'clock each nicht.
If I should fail tae find ye, I'd drap doon deid wi' fricht.
Michael
From: realcoincollec...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:46:39 -0800 (PST)
> Hey Michael Marotta. Where's your big talking now. You didnt answer.
I answered.
I posted then and now under my own name.
What I wrote, what I write, you are free to value as you choose.
You can question my facts, assail my conclusions or denigrate my
opinions.
You can also benefit from anything useful or interesting I have
offered.
That applies to me as it applies to everyone else you meet.
Mike M.
MIchael E. Marotta
"Higley of Granby"
Aladdin closed with his tagline:
A conclusion is simply the place
where you decided to stop thinking.
I cited that more than once in a classroom discussion.
It's good line. I've gotten a lot of mileage from it.
Thanks.
Mike M.
*Still thinking."
Jud
Mike Marotta wrote:
But, just to thank you for the recommendation -- I went out online
and read
> about the peat and water -- when I decide to jump off the wagon, I
> will start with Talisker.
Ian has made a convert of me. Talisker has a taste completely
different from what I was used to. It takes a bit of getting used to,
but I swear by it now! Thanks Ian!