Concerns of coin dealers prompts delay in background check ordinance
Arizona Coin Collector
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2009/01/07/news/local/doc4962fad7cf4da235009081.txt
Rapid City Journal
Concerns of coin dealers prompts delay in background check ordinance
By Scott Aust, Journal staff
Wednesday, January 07, 2009
Rapid City's year-long quest to require ice cream peddlers
to submit to criminal background checks to obtain a city
business license hit a new snag Monday night: concerns
about how new requirements will affect coin and stamp
collectors and traders.
The new ordinance also requires pawnbrokers, second-hand
dealers, dealers in precious metals and gems, private
security guards and taxicab operators to submit to
fingerprinting -- in addition to the criminal history
checks already required -- before being issued a license
each year. It also would require people who drive the
seasonal ice cream vending trucks through local
neighborhoods to go through the same process.
Dick Phipps, representing the Black Hills Coin Club,
said the ordinance's requirements for dealers and
collectors of gems, minerals, coins and currency go too
far and could eliminate businesses and bar coin and
stamp shows from coming to Rapid City.
Phipps said Rapid City hosted the state coin and stamp
show two of the last four years. He feels dealers from
other parts of the state won't be inclined to come
here again if they have to be fingerprinted and undergo
a background check.
"Put yourself in a coin dealer's position from Sioux
Falls or Watertown. None of these towns has this kind
of ordinance," he said. "Are we going to ask these
dealers to come in and provide palm prints and finger
prints? Would you do it? I wouldn't do it."
Police Chief Steve Allender said background checks have
been required for many years. The only thing new is the
requirement for fingerprints.
City Attorney Jason Green said the proposed ordinance
would apply to a person involved in the business of
trading in precious metals and gems, not to an individual
collector. Those business people also must comply with
all state and federal requirements, such as sales tax
licenses.
"Our ordinance protects local people from folks who may
want to be in this business surreptitiously," he said.
After a brief discussion, the council sent the ordinance
to the Jan. 14 legal and finance committee meeting for
more work.
The background check issue began in January 2008 when
some council members wanted criminal history screening
of mobile ice cream vendors because they do business
with children.
Generally, peddlers selling items out of their vehicles
are prohibited on city streets, but an exception exists
for ice cream and other sundries.
Last July, the council approved an ordinance setting the
fee for background checks and fingerprinting at $35 per
year, but the ordinance covering which licenses would be
covered took several more months to prepare.
Contact Scott Aust at 394-8415, or
scott...@rapidcityjournal.com .
..
PC
"Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:lNKdndiTP_MQMvnU...@earthlink.com...
> FROM:
> http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2009/01/07/news/local/doc4962fad7cf4da235009081.txt
>
> Rapid City Journal
>
> Concerns of coin dealers prompts delay in background check ordinance
>
> By Scott Aust, Journal staff
> Wednesday, January 07, 2009
>
> Rapid City's year-long quest to require ice cream peddlers
> to submit to criminal background checks to obtain a city
> business license hit a new snag Monday night: concerns
> about how new requirements will affect coin and stamp
> collectors and traders.
>
So there are a lot of coin dealers with criminal histories to hide?
oly
> "Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in messagenews:lNKdndiTP_MQMvnU...@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > FROM:
>
> > Rapid City Journal
>
> > Concerns of coin dealers prompts delay in background check ordinance
>
> > By Scott Aust, Journal staff
> > Wednesday, January 07, 2009
>
> > Rapid City's year-long quest to require ice cream peddlers
> > to submit to criminal background checks to obtain a city
> > business license hit a new snag Monday night: concerns
> > about how new requirements will affect coin and stamp
> > collectors and traders.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
There are some interesting personal histories out there, for sure, in
coin dealer land. Embezzlement and money laundering are among the
occasional convictions that can be found.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I've learned not to trust any coin dealer whose nickname is "Bugsy".
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I can't say that I ever ran into any problems buying coins from the
guys who did the embezzeling and the money laundering. You see the
coin you want, you give 'em greenies on the spot, they give you the
coin on the spot. However, I'm not sure what I would do buying from
somebody who was known or even alledged to fence stolen goods (we once
had a guy in our coin club who apparently was one - he was once
convicted late in life of said offense - and he's dead now) - there, I
would probably have to choose not get involved whatsoever.
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I shouldn't have been so equivocalble - of course, I wouldn't buy from
a known fence.
oly
Arizona Coin Collector
"PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
news:gl25d4$7i2$1...@news.motzarella.org...
Hello
It does not appear that Rapid City is not
a very friendly place to live. Personal
freedoms seems to be question there.
(or so it appears).
One would think that Rapid City has bigger
problems to deal with instead of people
who is trying to make and honest living or
enjoying a hobby.
I am suprise they did not ask for a DNA
sample with the fingerprints.
The ordinance is too broad in scope.
..
PC
I agree. I was tongue in cheek there. I am still pissed about the week I
spent at HSBC where they fingerprinted me so I could have my own access
badge. One freakin' week and now my fingerprints are on file at the FBI. I
have never committed a crime nor been convicted of one but I still do not
like it.
Mr. Jaggers
Praps the fingerprinting serves as a deterrent to him who is "mostly"
honest?
James
oly
> PC wrote:
> > "Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >news:tZSdnXnmZsNNAunU...@earthlink.com...
>
> >> "PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
> >>news:gl25d4$7i2$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
> >>> "Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:lNKdndiTP_MQMvnU...@earthlink.com...
> >>>> FROM:
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's the basic theory of "auditing" - some folks will never steal,
some folks will always steal - audits try to cover everybody as a
deterrent to the folks who might be tempted in the absence of any
audits or reviews... and hopefully to catch the thieves too.
oly
RWF
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e13ab32e-c260-45ac...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>That's the basic theory of "auditing" - some folks will never steal,
some folks will always steal - audits try to cover everybody as a
deterrent to the folks who might be tempted in the absence of any
audits or reviews... and hopefully to catch the thieves too.
Kind of like door locks, they keep the "honest" people out.
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:gl27k...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> PC wrote:
>
> Praps the fingerprinting serves as a deterrent to him who is "mostly"
> honest?
>
I am sure that is part of it. What I am not sure of is, what fingerprints
they expect to find when a bank account has been drained electronically?
Bruce Remick
But now if you get lost they may be able to find you quicker. Many parents
insist their kids be fingerprinted, keeping a set on file at home, just in
case.
Mr. Jaggers
Good point.
James
mazorj
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
How did that old refrain go? "Never eat at a place called Mom's, play
cards with anyone named Doc, or..."
Mr. Jaggers
...verbally engage anyone named James."
oly
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
technically, mon vieux, this forum ain't verbal...
oly
mazorj
I took it to mean that any lady to whom he pledges his troth in
marriage had better get it in writing.
Mr. Jaggers
Consider the gauntlet thrown, and plan to verbally engage next time we meet
at a show! Will you be at CICF?
James
Mr. Jaggers
You're durn-tootin'.
James
'of course, I'll respect you in the morning'
Bruce Remick
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Ec3dl.617$Aw2...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
When I was stationed in Alaska and my fiance mailed me a copy of her
engagement newspaper clipping, it said she "plights troth" and I wondered
what the hell she had gone and done. Never heard those fancy words before.
part...@yahoo.com
> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote
> > I've learned not to trust any coin dealer whose nickname is "Bugsy".
>
> How did that old refrain go? "Never eat at a place called Mom's, play
> cards with anyone named Doc, or..."
I've heard it as "... never eat anything bigger than your head."
Which is pretty sound advice, in my experience.
-Robert A. DeRose, Jr.
Bonus: My own aphorism, devised at a coin show after hearing a dealer
and customer get into a political debate:
"Never argue politics with your coin dealer or your bartender. We
need them to keep feeding our addictions."
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I hope to be at CICF. Funds are tightish at the moment. But I will
most likely be there on Friday.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
My situations exactly, on all three points.
James