Victoria Jubilee head gold sovereign

[Art Arete]

Hi!

Some days ago I bought a gold sovereign but only as a bullion coin. I
mean I bougth it without to see a photo of the coin.
One received it, the coin is a Victoria Jubilee Head but the date in
the reverse is 1915. Also appear tle letters "B.P."
I have not find it in the Standard Catalog of World Coins.

My question is: is it a restrike? or could be a fake?

Best regards.

Art

[oly]

You have a problem. oly

[oly]

O.K., I wanted to get back home and look at my books, although I
probably could have done this close enough off the top of my head.

The Victoria Jubilee Type Sovereign - the one where the Queen wears
the teeny tiny crown on her head - was minted in London each year from
1887 through 1892. The coin was also minted at two mints in
Australia, and the Australians also managed to produce a coin dated
1893.

At this point, the Jubilee Type stopped, period and Amen.

A genuine sovereign coin of this type weighs 7.881 grams.

Queen Victoria died in January 1901 and official British coins with
her visage were coined until the last part of 1901. The next year,
coins of her son Edward VII appeared and he died in May, 1910.
Edwards' coins were made until the end of 1910. Coins of his son,
George V, appeared in 1910 and his bust appeared on British coins
until the end of 1936.

Thus, a genuine sovereign dated 1915 should have an obverse bust of
George V (the grandson of Victoria) and NOT Victoria herself.

After 1932, sovereigns generally ceased to be issued by any Mint in
the British colonial world.

Nevertheless, there was still a great demand for sovereigns and the
price of sovereigns, in paper money, went to a large premium.

Forgers in the Middle East, especially in the area of Beruit, Lebanon,
made fakes to meet the demand. Often these Lebanese products were of
full (proepr) weight and fineness - the premium was so high at the
time that they could do so and still make a decent profit.

However, the Lebanese didn't always pay attention to how they paired
their spurious obverse and reverse dies, and you may well have one of
these.

Or not.

So, the chances that you have a genuine British sovereign are slim and
none (and "Slim" left town); but you could possibly still have
something with a reasonable amount of gold.

If you can send the coin back and have any chance of getting a refund,
that would be the best course of action.

oly

P.S. Victoria's specially made "tiny" crown is presently on regular
display with the Crown Jewels in the "Jewel House" of the Tower of
London.

[oly]

> London.- Hide quoted text -
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Of course, I mean to type that the regular circualtion coins of George
V appeared in 1911, not 1910.

There is quite an interesting history of why the tiny crown was
created, and what happened to it after Victoria's death.

oly

[Art Arete]

Oly,

Thank you very much for your response.

I knew the chance I had a genuine British Sovereign were slim, and
also I had no doubts about a refund or a change because I bought the
coin in a well known shop here.
In fact they told me that I send the coin back, they will change it by
another one.
Also, they told me that the coin had the correct density, so it must
contain the correct amount of gold.

It is a very beautiful and detailed coin. Apparently (under my
inexpert eye), there are no features that make you think that the
money is a fake. Of course, the date.
I think someone took a lot of work and made a more than evident
mistake. So evident that I thought the coin could be a restrike.

Thanks again.

Art

[oly]

> > oly- Hide quoted text -

>
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An official Mint, when "restriking", might well do something to make
the later product slightly different than the original. But not that
big an error. I would say "Lebanon", 1940s or 1950s. The Lebanese
did sometimes put in the right amount of gold, as the coin frequently
commanded a 30% to 40% premium over its intrinsic value.

The British did not "restrike" either, to my knowledge. When the
overseas demand became great enough, they issued new Queen Elizabeth
II sovereigns in large quantity in the years 1957-1966.

oly

[Peter]

Offhand, when the clock strikes 13, not only is the correct time in
question, but everything that went before, as well. If it appears to
be a 1915 Victoria Sovereign, I'd try to get my money back if it were
me.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that because the density is right that
it is gold. There are folks from China (and possibly elsewhere) that
make gold plated tungsten coins, ingots and whatever you want (the
Chinese have been clever enough to advertise their wares on the
internet).

[oly]

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There are probably recent Chinese counterfeits of Brtiish sovereigns,
but the great heyday of fake sovereigns was 60 years ago. And the
Lebanese counterfeiters often did use real gold that was close to the
actual standards. These coins are especially dangerous because an old
collection that has laid dormant for many years can easily have a bad
piece.

The thing that I would worry about, going back to original vendor,
would be that that seller probably has other fakes as well.

oly

[Peter]

On Sep 19, 4:54 pm, oly <oly2...@aol.com> wrote:

> The thing that I would worry about, going back to original vendor,
> would be that that seller probably has other fakes as well.

That was my point.

[Tony Clayton]

Peter wrote:
>
> Offhand, when the clock strikes 13, not only is the correct time in
> question, but everything that went before, as well.

Um - there are clocks that strike 13 at one o'clock. That at Worsley Church
does, as
the Duke of Bridgwater complained that his workers were due back from lunch
at
one o'clock, but the clock struck one at 12.30, 1.00 and 1.30, so confusion
reigned until the clock was made to strike 13 at 1.00!

--
Tony Clayton
http://www.coinsoftheuk.co.uk

[oly]

The Duke of Bridgewater was damn interesting. His income was 80,000
sovereigns per annum, MOL.

oly