Silver breaks $40
Beanie
Gold is reaching record highs and silver seems poised to take off to.....
$100/oz?
oly
Should one wish to "cash-in", then the problem is, of course, finding
a buyer who doesn't insist on paying $10 back-of-spot.
oly
ste...@no.spam.sbcglobal.net
A local coin store that has established a gold/silver exchange is buying
.999 silver at spot and selling at + 3.2%. ASE buying at +1.05 % and selling
at + 1.22%. KR buying at spot and selling at +3%. They don't look too bad.
oly
Yes, it is my experience that the dealers are mostly working pretty
close on the 1 ounce 0.999+ fine stuff.
OTOH, we have one area coin dealer (with a shop) who tells sellers
"Sterling silver isn't real silver, you know" and he offers 35% of
melt.
NOW, that dealer goes to church every Sunday, same church that I
attend.
Is everything that you've got 0.999+ fine and in even troy ounce
weights???
oly
Plain old 90% U.S. silver coin doesn't require too much haircut,
either.
Bremick
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:01a33bca-947a-4937...@l6g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
oly
___________
$10 back of spot for silver is criminal. Kitco, for one, offers 24/7 buy
or sell options at up-to-moment spot +/- one percent with a couple mouse
clicks if you open a pool account. As an investor, I don't need actual
coins in my hand to store, mail, or insure. As a collector though, I
wouldn't have it any other way.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
At $40, a metal buying dealer might be able to do a Vulcan mind-meld
on himself and convince himself that that's (10 out of 40) a
reasonable percentage.
People can rationalize anything.
If you play paper silver and paper gold games, you're going to find
that you'll be cheated in the end too. Such accounts can be "frozen"
by the government in a "national emergency" and/ or "windfall profits"
taxes imposed. Or the seller of the paper silver or paper gold can go
bankrupt too, in so many different ways. Then you're not talking a
25% loss, but rather worse.
Paper games all look good until they don't. There is nothing new
under the sun.
oly
Peter
>
> - Show quoted text -
Does anyone know what the loss (fee) is to melt 90% coins or 92.5%
coins or flatware (sterling)?
One dealer I spoke with mentioned that if he give either to a smelter,
he gets 90% of the actual silver value. I suspect that he deals in
modest quantities and it might depend on quantity. I guess I am
curious how accurate his answer is.
Bremick
People can rationalize anything.
_____________
I'll gladly take that gamble that there will be no "national emergency" that
will prompt the government to "freeze" my account. It's no game, any more
than the stock market is a game. I will also gamble that Kitco will be
staying solvent for at least as long as the bank that I would be storing my
bullion in. I've already taken a tidy 50% profit in my silver pool
investment in one year and am about ready to take another 50% six month
profit. Sounds pretty rational to me with the money in hand and considering
what my initial investment might have yielded otherwise. Those who can't
get past the worry that something catastrophic is due to happen deserve to
enjoy a secure 1% bank interest.
For those who choose to accumulate actual gold or silver bullion, you can
only hope there is a handy buyer waiting to buy your goodies within 1% of
the hourly spot price you've been following. That price may not last if you
have to sell quickly but have to wait until tomorrow to get to your safe
deposit box and then maybe a trip to the post office.
_______________
> Paper games all look good until they don't. There is nothing new
> under the sun.
______________
Entirely your own choice. I just happen to prefer mine.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
We've been here before, you and I, Mr. Remick. You respect (revere)
the PTB and hope they will continue to make your retiree life just
hunky dory in every single respect. I see the people of the USA the
same as the people of Japan in their present crisis, hoping that the
PTB will make everything all right as they get their lame asses
irradiated into a crisp. Go Go Godzilla. Good freakin' Luck.
Paper silver and paper gold. Irrational from alpha to omega. Buy
paper gold and silver and YOU rely ever so much on the honesty and
competency of other people. Of course, your reliance is so
irrational. You hope that your money will be handled, in fact, 100%
properly each and every time you invest; you hope that the gold and
silver will actually be bought and actually physically depsoited and
stored correctly even as the physical metal gets more and more
difficult to obtain; if there are any mistakes at any point, you hope
that Kitco and other third parties will cover your ass with their
money.
i
IF the private parties that are handling your money do everything
right, you hope that the government will not step in and confiscate
the great big piles of precious metal in the various warehouses and
pay you (the sucker) off, properly and correctly, in depreciating
paper currency. If such a confiscation and pay-off occurs, there will
be sufficient and likey excess taxes withheld because you minions
can't be trusted to pay the taxes yourself. In fact, you are
essentially a cheater against the system (a so-and-so with a regular
couple of government checks, no less), and why should you be paid at
all???
That's how the socialist government-is-GOD mind-set works. Good Luck.
Hold your metals directly, folks and be prepared for totally
unreasonable confiscations. We (the U.S.A.) are TOAST.
oly
Frank Provasek
My retail store paid 85% of spot on one ounce .999 rounds and junk US
silver, and sold at spot or slightly
more. The city ordinance categorized coin stores as "pawn shops and
2nd hand junk dealers" and made us hold
ALL purchases (including junk silver) for 10 days exposing us to
market risk if it went down.
Some cities still have such ordinances.
Also the police would regularly come in with a report of someone
having "3 rolls of silver halves" stolen,
and if they could find 3 rolls of silver halves that we had purchased
in the last 30 days, even from different people (we had to record
their drivers license numbers and items in a log book) THAT MUST BE
THEM they would just TAKE them with no reimbursement to us.
The mom and pop coin shops really work in a different environment than
online metals dealers and coin shows.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC, ICTA - Full Time Since 1991
dlhii
>
>Also the police would regularly come in with a report of someone
>having "3 rolls of silver halves" stolen,
>and if they could find 3 rolls of silver halves that we had purchased
>in the last 30 days, even from different people (we had to record
>their drivers license numbers and items in a log book) THAT MUST BE
>THEM they would just TAKE them with no reimbursement to us.
>
>The mom and pop coin shops really work in a different environment than
>online metals dealers and coin shows.
>
>----
>Frank Provasek Rare Coins www.frankcoins.com
>http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/frankcoins Texas Auction License
>11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
>Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC, ICTA - Full Time Since 1991
Pawns around here are only required to sell them back to the 'original
owner' at the price of the pawn ticket price. Even if stolen. Don't
really agree with that but neither method seems fair. Guess if
something is stolen some is going to get screwed. An equipment rental
went out of business because the couldn't afford to keep buying there
equipment back from the pawn shops.
Bremick
__________________________________________________
You continue to suffocate in your negative, sky will certainly fall
attitude. You actually seem to relish the thought. I used to work with
some eggheads who secretly hoped for a nuclear exchange to see if their CEP
calculations and projections were accurate. While some of us are trying to
make our money work for us, you continue to warn of Armageddon from your
soapbox and claim that were prospering the wrong way. I don't rely on fate
to make my retirement life comfortable and profitable. I act based on
research and 70 years of life experience and it hasn't failed me yet. You
seem to enjoy citing the Weimars, Zimbabwes etc. as portends of certain
financial doom in the US. If you feel comfortable with your forecasts,
forge your lifestyle that way. Meanwhile, I'll continue to take my profits
and lumps with a more positive attitude.. You're missing some fun.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, like so many (including myself) you rely on a government check, or
two, to keep your lifestyle up.
That's the basis of our lives, little speculations just make you more
comfortable, if the speculations are successful.
That will all continue for some time, but the purchasing power of
those government checks will fall steadily.
!!!!!!
What do you think $1500 Gold and $40 silver is??? It represents the
failure and ultimately the demise of the U.S. Dollar. Yes, a la
Zimbabwe, a la Argentina, a la Brazil.
!!!!!!
But the western world has never had its "reserve currency" do this
kind of a fail before. Zimbabwe and Brazil didn't have a whole long
way that they could fall, not like the U.S.A.
!!!!!!
First the oil will go (people won't be too happy with $5 plus, then $7
gasoline) and then the cheap consumer crap will go (the Asians will
still make the stuff, but will decide to keep it for themselves
instead of taking American paper for it). And hey, hope that you have
already cut back on your eating, like so many oldsters.
Flea markets and garage sales will be a very big thing, and they will
even pop up in heretofore wealthy places (there are plenty of places
where they won't be new occurances).
America's socialist lifestyle that has developed from 1970 to date is
weighed in the balance and found wanting. You can't have a country
where one-half of the people live off of an inordinately large
government check without working for it. The U.S. Dollar is the
miner's canary. The dollar will not be the world's reserve currency
anymore, and not be acceptable by overseas sellers anymore. The
dollar will, of course, continue to function domestically for a while
longer, and the PTB will constantly tell you that there's no problem.
Everything will just be a lot more expensive.
First the oil will go up, then the imported crap will get pricier and
then disappear, then the food will be outrageous.
What do you think $1500 Gold and $40 Silver is???
They represent a cascading failure.
Sauve qui peut.
oly
Beanie
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:265641dc-e1f1-40b7...@y31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>Also the police would regularly come in with a report of someone
having "3 rolls of silver halves" stolen,
and if they could find 3 rolls of silver halves that we had purchased
in the last 30 days, even from different people (we had to record
their drivers license numbers and items in a log book) THAT MUST BE
THEM they would just TAKE them with no reimbursement to us.
I think Frank is prevaricating again.
oly
Frank can't tell the difference.
oly
Bremick
(as will the purchasing power of everyone's check, not just from the
government. By having planned ahead long ago, I don't rely only on that
check.)
What do you think $1500 Gold and $40 silver is??? It represents the
failure and ultimately the demise of the U.S. Dollar. Yes, a la
Zimbabwe, a la Argentina, a la Brazil.
(to me, $1500 gold and $40 silver represent investment profits from $500
and $15 respectively. What happens in Zimbabwe, Brazil, etc. has no effect
in my life)
But the western world has never had its "reserve currency" do this
kind of a fail before. Zimbabwe and Brazil didn't have a whole long
way that they could fall, not like the U.S.A.
!!!!!!
First the oil will go (people won't be too happy with $5 plus, then $7
gasoline) and then the cheap consumer crap will go (the Asians will
still make the stuff, but will decide to keep it for themselves
instead of taking American paper for it). And hey, hope that you have
already cut back on your eating, like so many oldsters.
( your Armageddon forecast again. Do you follow Beck's advice and keep
your bunker well stocked?)
Flea markets and garage sales will be a very big thing, and they will
even pop up in heretofore wealthy places (there are plenty of places
where they won't be new occurances).
America's socialist lifestyle that has developed from 1970 to date is
weighed in the balance and found wanting. You can't have a country
where one-half of the people live off of an inordinately large
government check without working for it. The U.S. Dollar is the
miner's canary. The dollar will not be the world's reserve currency
anymore, and not be acceptable by overseas sellers anymore. The
dollar will, of course, continue to function domestically for a while
longer, and the PTB will constantly tell you that there's no problem.
Everything will just be a lot more expensive.
(Instead of preaching, why not jump on the gold & silver bandwagon to
save yourself from certain doom?)
First the oil will go up, then the imported crap will get pricier and
then disappear, then the food will be outrageous.
(Oil has gone up ever since I recall 15 cent gasoline in the 1950's.
Imagine the thought back then of gasoline at $1.00 !! We seemed to have
survived quite well over the past 60 years as gasoline climbed along
with wages. Better stock up on soup cans.)
What do you think $1500 Gold and $40 Silver is???
They represent a cascading failure.
(or a nice profit. The price of silver has rising from $15 to $40 over
the past few years, has far outpaced any increase in the cost of living.
C'mon. Put on a happy face.)
Beanie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He seems to enjoy coming here to be abused though.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Please note that I'm not mad at you, Mr. R., just concerned. Many of
my good friends are older than me and they aren't prepared for
anything besides absolutely perfect sunny economic weather!!!
Other asides:
Silver has risen about 85% since last June (2010). Other than use a
small amount to take a good long-distance vacation, I think I will
hold my PMs very closely at this time.
Yes, I have put some additional stuff in the pantry lately. Prices at
Wal Mart have risen shockingly since last fall!!!
Glen Beck doesn't register with me. Beck is too young and flighty to
take seriously. Anyway, I prefer my Mormons more of the Howard Ruff
variety.
oly
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> He seems to enjoy coming here to be abused though.
Serious masochist, it seems. Or maybe he's of the opinion that ANY
publicity is GOOD publicity.
It sometimes pains me to think we might be helping him make an
occasional sale.
oly
Beanie
==============================================================
Frank's postings here probably get more of his eBay auctions cancelled than bid
on.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, although those auction cancellations make me smile (funny how a
serious noteworthy intellectual like Frankie can't read AND FOLLOW the
clear and easy rules), I have nothing at all to do with that.
oly
Bremick
Please note that I'm not mad at you, Mr. R., just concerned. Many of
my good friends are older than me and they aren't prepared for
anything besides absolutely perfect sunny economic weather!!!
(are you suggesting that my govt annuity is in danger? My 401k
equivalent? You're sounding like an insurance salesman.)
Other asides:
Silver has risen about 85% since last June (2010). Other than use a
small amount to take a good long-distance vacation, I think I will
hold my PMs very closely at this time.
(My last purchase in Nov 2009 was at $18.00. Today it's closing in
on $41. I like that percentage better.)
Yes, I have put some additional stuff in the pantry lately. Prices at
Wal Mart have risen shockingly since last fall!!!
(My pantry is stocked, too. But I haven't considered installing a
bunker.)
Glen Beck doesn't register with me. Beck is too young and flighty to
take seriously. Anyway, I prefer my Mormons more of the Howard Ruff
variety.
(too bad Beck isn't going farther away. Although I do admire the
Mormons' survival preparation doctrine, it's not quite my thing.)
Ken Barr
<4417d22f-7c5c-414c...@r13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Peter <w2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Does anyone know what the loss (fee) is to melt 90% coins or 92.5%
> coins or flatware (sterling)?
>
> One dealer I spoke with mentioned that if he give either to a smelter,
> he gets 90% of the actual silver value. I suspect that he deals in
> modest quantities and it might depend on quantity. I guess I am
> curious how accurate his answer is.
Depends on the refiner.
There's one here in the San Francisco Bay Area that pays ninety
perzent of melt for silver (minimum .800 fine average), melts
it on-site and pays you within ah hour.
You can do better (ninety-five perzent of melt) if you ship
it to a refinery in Texas, but of course you have to mail it
and wait for a check.
Both have 100 troy ounce net silver weight minimums, and only
deal "with the trade", not with the public.
--
Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Santa Clara, Apr 15-17 table 437 w/Mac's Coins
Ken Barr
sterrys@ no.spam.sbcglobal.net wrote:
Please identify the shop that sells silver eagles at spot plus
1.22 perzent. I wanna buy several thousand of them at that price...
A .17 perzent markup on a $41 item is about seven cents per unit ...
I'm amazed they can make any money at that rate. And why would
they have a 3.2 perzent spread on .999 rounds, a 3 perzent spread
on Rands, but only a .17 perzent spread on silver iggles??
Something ain't right here ...
Frank Provasek
> Please identify the shop that sells silver eagles at spot plus
> 1.22 perzent. I wanna buy several thousand of them at that price...
>
> A .17 perzent markup on a $41 item is about seven cents per unit ...
> I'm amazed they can make any money at that rate. And why would
> they have a 3.2 perzent spread on .999 rounds, a 3 perzent spread
> on Rands, but only a .17 perzent spread on silver iggles??
>
> Something ain't right here ...
>
> --
> Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
> P. O. Box 32541 website:http://www.kenbarr.com
> San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tulving's latest quotes
Buy @ $1.70 Per Coin Over Spot
Sell @ Spot + $2.49 Per Coin
oly
> In article
> <4417d22f-7c5c-414c-aa67-021184198...@r13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
That S.F. smelter sounds like a very good outfit, simple policy, quick
pay - too bad they are so far away. They must be able to do some form
of accurate assay in-house?
oly
Peter
ste...@no.spam.sbcglobal.net
On 9-Apr-2011, Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:
> A local coin store that has established a gold/silver exchange is buying
> > .999 silver at spot and selling at + 3.2%. ASE buying at +1.05 % and
> > selling
> > at + 1.22%. KR buying at spot and selling at +3%. They don't look too
> > bad.
>
> Please identify the shop that sells silver eagles at spot plus
> 1.22 perzent. I wanna buy several thousand of them at that price...
>
> A .17 perzent markup on a $41 item is about seven cents per unit ...
> I'm amazed they can make any money at that rate. And why would
> they have a 3.2 perzent spread on .999 rounds, a 3 perzent spread
> on Rands, but only a .17 perzent spread on silver iggles??
>
> Something ain't right here ...
Damned decimal places will screw you up every time. I can see where I
screwed up but am too tired to correct it. The actual figures were with
silver at $40.20, ASE buy/sell was 42.00/44.75. 999 fine was buy/sell
40.20/41.50. KR with gold at $1470.00, buy sell was 1470.00/1508.00.
Will try to do better next time.
Ken Barr
sterrys@ no.spam.sbcglobal.net wrote:
Not a problem ... just too bad for us that there's no source of
silver iggles at spot plus 1.22 perzent ...
The quoted spread (buy at spot plus 4.5 perzent, sell at spot
plus 11 perzent) is fairly typical for small quantities. The
buy prices is actually higher than most wholesalers, but the
sell price is higher as well. I can usually sell roll quantities
to the wholesalers for around spot plus 3 and buy them from the
wholesalers for spot plus 8, with a tighter spread on box lots.
Jud
>
> (Oil has gone up ever since I recall 15 cent gasoline in the 1950's.
> Imagine the thought back then of gasoline at $1.00 !! We seemed to have
> survived quite well over the past 60 years as gasoline climbed along
> with wages. Better stock up on soup cans.)
Couple of gasoline related memories.
To help pay my tuition in college I worked at a Sunoco gas station.
There were 5 Sunoco stations in town and a few other major brands as
well. Along came a renegade no-name gas station where you pumped the
gas yourself...unheard of in the late 1960's. They of course had lower
prices, which set off a gas price war. I remember that our lowest
priced gas was known as '190', and we were selling it for 25.9¢ per
gallon, but ended up matching the pump it yourself price of 17.9¢.
Back in those days there were basically 2 ways of buying gas. "Fill
'er up" or "$2 please".
I was laid off the day before Christmas 1973 during the OPEC oil
embargo. On New Years Day, 1974 most gas stations were closed for the
holiday, but I found one that was open and was shocked at the price. I
remember saying out loud "Nobody is going to pay 60¢ a gallon!" I also
remember that I was making a pretty good wage before I was laid off
too, $4.55 per hour!
Jud
friend (at least he was at the time). I paid him the going rate of 20%
above face value. He sold me $500 face for $600. I also remember him
asking "It's not going to go up, is it?" and my response being "It's
been 20% above face for years". Now it's 30X face. Maybe that's why he
isn't my friend anymore! 8-)
Bremick
"Jud" <numis...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bbf1c2f2-13e2-4376...@d11g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 9, 10:18 am, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> (Oil has gone up ever since I recall 15 cent gasoline in the 1950's.
> Imagine the thought back then of gasoline at $1.00 !! We seemed to have
> survived quite well over the past 60 years as gasoline climbed along
> with wages. Better stock up on soup cans.)
Couple of gasoline related memories.
To help pay my tuition in college I worked at a Sunoco gas station.
There were 5 Sunoco stations in town and a few other major brands as
well. Along came a renegade no-name gas station where you pumped the
gas yourself...unheard of in the late 1960's. They of course had lower
prices, which set off a gas price war. I remember that our lowest
priced gas was known as '190', and we were selling it for 25.9в per
gallon, but ended up matching the pump it yourself price of 17.9в.
Back in those days there were basically 2 ways of buying gas. "Fill
'er up" or "$2 please".
[I seem to remember that "a buck 210" was the going order at the Sonoco
pump in the 1950's. We used to pool our change to buy a buck's worth of gas
so we could drive to the beach and back.]
Bob Johnson
wrote:
Fun with math.
If silver went for 1.2X to 30X, that's 25X increase, over 38 years.
Annual return = 8.84% (25^(1/38))-1
Best Regards.
Bob Johnson
http://www.coinsheetlinks.com
"Roßert G. Schaffrath"
> (or a nice profit. The price of silver has rising from $15 to $40 over
> the past few years, has far outpaced any increase in the cost of living.
> C'mon. Put on a happy face.)
>
I too am stunned at the increase in Silver. Gold not so much but Silver
is quite startling. Back around 2005 while I was visiting the family in
Canada, I stopped at a coin show and saw a proof-like coin set of my
birth year (1962) for about CAD$17 Canadian (the exchange rate was still
quite favorable to the USD in those days). I figured why not. It would
be nice to have the Canadian versions of the coins of my birth year so I
bought it. I now see the melt value alone is ~US$45 as of this past Friday.
oly
wrote:
I sold two 80% Canadian dollars, one 80% half and two 80% dimes -
total face of Canadian $2.70 - two weekends back and got $47 in
greenbacks. Of course, silver is even higher today.
Yet people think that there is nothing going on, that the world
proceeds 100% favorably towards the U.S.A. and its currency.
oly