Re: Judge rules 10 (1933) $20 Double Eagles improperly seized, U.S. must initiate a forfeiture hearing (and then a trial) to prove illegal ownership
Thomas A.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNa23R6oJQcat8uERblqfb3k2N4wD99PMNI02
>
> "US Mint must seek court OK to keep rare 1933 coins"
>
> By MARYCLAIRE DALE (AP) - 21 hours ago
>
>
> PHILADELPHIA - The U.S. government improperly seized a set of
> extremely rare and valuable "double eagle" coins from a Philadelphia
> jeweler's descendants and must win a forfeiture case to keep them, a
> judge ruled this week.
> Ownership of the 10 gold coins - worth millions of dollars apiece -
> may be determined by a jury in a weeks-long forfeiture hearing.
>
> The family of the late Israel Switt is suing to recover the double
> eagles, so named because they had a face value of $20, twice the
> amount of gold coins known as eagles.
>
> The government argues that none of the coins were removed legally
> from the Mint when President Franklin D. Roosevelt abandoned the gold
> standard in 1933. The stockpiled double eagles minted that year and
> waiting to go into circulation were instead melted down, although a
> few apparently survived.
> The judge's order released Wednesday calls for the government to
> initiate a forfeiture hearing by Sept. 28. The hearing would likely
> amount to a trial in which the government would have to prove Switt's
> family never legally possessed them, a family lawyer said.
>
> Lawyer Barry Berke argues that some coins could have left the Mint
> legally through a gold exchange program in place at the time that
> attracted jewelers like Switt.
>
> "There was a period of time where it was permissible to exchange gold
> coins for gold bullion," said Berke, who represents Switt's daughter,
> Joan S. Langbord of Philadelphia, and her sons, Roy Langbord of New
> York City and David Langbord of Virginia Beach, Va.
>
> They say they found the coins in a safe deposit box in 2003, 13 years
> after Switt died.
>
> The following year, they asked the Mint to authenticate them and
> suggested they were open to a negotiated settlement, perhaps akin to
> the 50-50 split reached in a previous case involving one double eagle
> coin.
> The collection could be worth nearly $80 million or more. A comparable
> double eagle sold for $7.59 million in 2002 - believed to be the
> highest price ever paid for a coin.
>
> The family has previously asked for the coins' return or a settlement
> of up to $40 million.
>
> U.S. District Judge Legrome Davis ruled that the government improperly
> seized the coins and denied the family due process when Mint officials
> decided to keep them after they were authenticated without a hearing.
>
> "The government's 'good-faith' belief that the coins were once stolen
> is not sufficient, under the circumstances, to justify its decision
> to conduct a warrantless seizure," Davis wrote.
>
> Federal prosecutors representing the Mint declined through a
> spokeswoman to comment Friday.
>
> In a statement, the family noted Israel Switt's combat service in
> World War II and said they have tried to be open with the government
> throughout the long case.
>
> "Perhaps this was only a minor and personal battle, but nevertheless
> it is one where a family's rights to receive fair treatment from the
> government of the United States was vindicated," the statement said.
$80M or more? Pretty unlikely. I'd guess the "redbook value" of these just
took a huge nose dive.
I feel sorry for the guy who paid $7.59M for the first one. It's not like
you could have seen this whole weird scenario coming.
Jerry Dennis
>
> - Show quoted text -
Possibly not. It is pedigreed as the Farouk specimin and the first to
be legal to own.
Jerry
Mike Marotta
for the broader story ... it is not clear what the intent of the
Treasury was. Bank holidays in Nevada (November 1932) and bank
closures in Iowa, Tennessee and Kansas in January 1933 were capped by
the failure of the Guardian Group in Detroit. Henry Ford's refusal to
loan them more money cause Governor William Comstock to close all
Michigan banks at 2:00 AM on February 14, 1933. (Read about huge
loans of federal money to failing banks in 1932 here:
http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=lester_telser)
The question here, then, is what policies the Treasury -intended- as
at that time, the President was inaugurated on March 4, not January
20. Executive Order 6102 was not issued until March 9, 1933.
Be all that as it may, about the SWITT DOUBLE EAGLES, see here:
Wikipedia, of course
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Double_Eagle
From the E-Sylum, when the story broke in 2005
http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v08n37a06.html
From Leon Worden's "Santa Clarita Valley" website, his COINage article
from 2006
http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/signal/coins/worden-coinage0106b.htm
A nice Numismaster article by David Ganz from January 22, 2009 as the
family "circled the wagons"
Mint officials took possession and then spent about nine months
resolving jurisdictional issues with the Secret Service and examining
the coins before concluding that they were genuine - and then claimed
that since they were always government property, they had no intention
of returning them to the family.
http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=6060
The basic AP article from July 31, 2009, via Newser
http://www.newser.com/article/d99pmni02/pa-family-wins-right-to-forfeiture-hearing-over-rare-valuable-1933-double-eagle-coins.html
On Aug 1, 3:52 pm, "A" <a...@att.net> wrote:
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNa23R6oJQcat8uERbl...
> "US Mint must seek court OK to keep rare 1933 coins"
> By MARYCLAIRE DALE (AP) - 21 hours ago
> The family of the late Israel Switt is suing to recover the double eagles,
> so named because they had a face value of $20, twice the amount of gold
> coins known as eagles.
> Lawyer Barry Berke argues that some coins could have left the Mint legally
> through a gold exchange program in place at the time that attracted jewelers
> like Switt.
> The following year, they asked the Mint to authenticate them and ...
Thomas A.
I thought about that. I can't seem to think of any US coin that has a
premium value over others of its kind due solely to its provenance. The
famous "named" coins tend to be the highest grade as well. Maybe there is
an exception but none comes to mind right now.
It's an interesting question however. Would I pay a premium for a Farouk
specimen? Probably not. But I do think I would pay a premium for a rare US
coin that had a provenance associated with a prominent American historical
figure. "The Strawberry Leaf 1793 Cent presented to Thomas Jefferson" would
do it for me if such a thing existed. You betcha'.
Jerry Dennis
> As for the Double Eagles themselves, here below are other links. �As
> for the broader story ... �it is not clear what the intent of the
> Treasury was. Bank holidays in Nevada (November 1932) and bank
> closures in Iowa, Tennessee and Kansas in January 1933 were capped by
> the failure of the Guardian Group in Detroit. �Henry Ford's refusal to
> loan them more money cause Governor William Comstock to close all
> Michigan banks at 2:00 AM on February 14, 1933. �(Read about huge
>
> The question here, then, is what policies the Treasury -intended- as
> at that time, the President was inaugurated on March 4, not January
> 20. �Executive Order 6102 was not issued until March 9, 1933.
>
> Be all that as it may, about the SWITT DOUBLE EAGLES, see here:
>
>
> From the E-Sylum, when the story broke in 2005http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v08n37a06.html
>
> From Leon Worden's "Santa Clarita Valley" website, his COINage article
>
> A nice Numismaster article by David Ganz from January 22, 2009 as the
> family "circled the wagons"
> Mint officials took possession and then spent about nine months
> resolving jurisdictional issues with the Secret Service and examining
> the coins before concluding that they were genuine - and then claimed
> that since they were always government property, they had no intention
>
> The basic AP article from July 31, 2009, via Newserhttp://www.newser.com/article/d99pmni02/pa-family-wins-right-to-forfe...
>
> On Aug 1, 3:52 pm, "A" <a...@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNa23R6oJQcat8uERbl...
> > "US Mint must seek court OK to keep rare 1933 coins"
> > By MARYCLAIRE DALE (AP) - 21 hours ago
> > The family of the late Israel Switt is suing to recover the double eagles,
> > so named because they had a face value of $20, twice the amount of gold
> > coins known as eagles.
> > Lawyer Barry Berke argues that some coins could have left the Mint legally
> > through a gold exchange program in place at the time that attracted jewelers
> > like Switt.
> > The following year, they asked the Mint to authenticate them and ...
> > U.S. District Judge Legrome Davis ruled that the government improperly
> > seized the coins and denied the family due process when Mint officials
>
> - Show quoted text -
Back on August 23, 2005 we discussed this case and my original flaw in
the government's case STILL exists. The whole story is detailed in
the Sotheby's/Stack's 1933 Saint Catalog. The following was pasted
from a post of mine on August 23, 2005. I don't know if the link
still works, but it is substantiated by the catalog and other detailed
information on the Saint.
<quote>
http://www.usmint.gov/auction/index.cfm?action=theTimeline
>From March 15 through April 4, 1933, it was LEGAL to purchase a 1933 Saint, since FDR's E.O. 6102 wasn't issued until April 5, 1933. It seems it is/was easier for the government to say they were all stolen and seize them rather than allow someone to show proof of legal ownership and let them keep them.
<unquote>
March 15, 1933 was the first day of striking the first 100,000 1933
Saints. April 4, 1933 was the date E.O. 6102 became effective.
I have to admit, I reread the catalog after reading these posts. Lots
of good memories of RCC in those days.
Jerry
Coin Collector
�Would I pay a premium for a Farouk
> specimen? �Probably not. �
Me either. Farouk was known to 'polish' his coins. YIKES!!!!
linxlvr
I knew of several people that believed, and even put in print, that there
were more 1933 saints out there. Personally, I hope the Switt's win the
case.
--
dw
Jerry Dennis
He was also alledged to have "powdered" some of his coins. On the
positive side, when David Hall, et. al., examined the coin (and
proclaimed it to be an MS-65), they determined it had not been
cleaned, polished, powdered, nor any other enhancement.
Jerry
Thomas A.
What is powdering and what does it get you? Never heard of that one.
Jerry Dennis
Dusting the coin with talcum or another type of powder, supposedly to
delay tarnishing. The bad part of that is when you wipe the powder
off, you microscratch the coin.
Jerry