Franklin Mint offering a Morgan Dollar for $29.95...
MKW
sell for similar on Ebay.
Jon Purkey
wrote:
>For the condition, the price isn't that far off. I have seen them
>sell for similar on Ebay.
>
>http://www.franklinmintmorgan.com/a/B21F059a.cfm?ld=com
I don't see any guarantee of the date you'll receive or the grade of
the coin. Just historical info about the coin that says the series
started in 1878. Though they do say it is at least 100 years old which
rules out 1921 I suppose.
Scurvy Dog
"MKW" <mwelb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2b1e3edc-5d36-48ad...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> For the condition, the price isn't that far off. I have seen them
> sell for similar on Ebay.
>
> http://www.franklinmintmorgan.com/a/B21F059a.cfm?ld=com
I'll sell you all the circualted Morgans you want for $29.95 each (dates my
choice but no 21's)
Scurvy Dog
"Jon Purkey" <room32...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:g47lp5lulge9467qa...@4ax.com...
$29.95 + $7.95 postage for a circulated Morgan that my local dealer will sell me
for less than 20 bucks - and he lets me look thru his stash to pick out the ones
I like too!
Plus the FM wants to keep sending you overpriced numismatic crap too.
How the mighty have fallen.
I remember when the FM used to make beautiful examples of medallic art.
Now they're selling gold plated Prexibux on infomercials.
Total ripoff.
MKW
stuff are gone and a new investment group is in charge. This group
likes cleaner product development.
But $29.95 is not overly outrageous for a basic US coin collection.
FM will still do medallic art. They will develop the medals and have
someone else make them, but they use their same group of sculptors who
are now freelance.
Scurvy Dog
> For what its worth the recent FM owners that liked the infomercial
> stuff are gone and a new investment group is in charge. This group
> likes cleaner product development.
>
> But $29.95 is not overly outrageous for a basic US coin collection.
> FM will still do medallic art. They will develop the medals and have
> someone else make them, but they use their same group of sculptors who
> are now freelance.
I reiterate:
$29.95 + $7.95 postage for a circulated Morgan that my local dealer will sell me
for less than 20 bucks - and he lets me look thru his stash to pick out the ones
I like too!
What, do you work for the FM?
tony cooper
You are not the market for FM. The person who buys that Morgan from
FM would have to look in the Yellow Pages to find a coin dealer and
wouldn't know what coin to pick from the dealer's stash. If he did
find a coin shop, the dealer would probably charge him more for the
Morgan than you'd pay.
However, that FM customer has some kind business or hobby knowledge
that you don't. He'd laugh at you for over-spending in some area that
he has knowledge of that you don't.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
MKW
are two different people. Serious coin collectors can't understand
colorized US coins. But tons of people like them, and could care less
about a MS66 PCGS Morgan Dollar. But both items have their merits.
It would be a different story if the marketing company claimed a
falsity which the FM does not. And hey, maybe the buyer of this
program will start to love coins...then come into your dealer for
more. These days, I would think the more buyers the better. The way
our local coin dealer treats people, its a wonder anyone ever comes
back to them.
Scurvy Dog
"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:22qop59lb2em2nob7...@4ax.com...
> You are not the market for FM. The person who buys that Morgan from
> FM would have to look in the Yellow Pages to find a coin dealer and
> wouldn't know what coin to pick from the dealer's stash. If he did
> find a coin shop, the dealer would probably charge him more for the
> Morgan than you'd pay.
You position rests on the shaky surmise that all dealers are crooks.
Bruce Remick
> <scurv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"MKW" <mwelb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:e688dee8-055f-4286...@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>>> For what its worth the recent FM owners that liked the infomercial
>>> stuff are gone and a new investment group is in charge. This group
>>> likes cleaner product development.
>>>
>>> But $29.95 is not overly outrageous for a basic US coin collection.
>>> FM will still do medallic art. They will develop the medals and have
>>> someone else make them, but they use their same group of sculptors who
>>> are now freelance.
>>
>>I reiterate:
>>$29.95 + $7.95 postage for a circulated Morgan that my local dealer will
>>sell me
>>for less than 20 bucks - and he lets me look thru his stash to pick out
>>the ones
>>I like too!
>>What, do you work for the FM?
>>
> You are not the market for FM. The person who buys that Morgan from
> FM would have to look in the Yellow Pages to find a coin dealer and
> wouldn't know what coin to pick from the dealer's stash. If he did
> find a coin shop, the dealer would probably charge him more for the
> Morgan than you'd pay.
The person who would buy a $38 Morgan from FM would probably be unfamiliar
with the coin and have no clue of how its true value is based on its
condition. He would also believe that this could be his "last chance" to
acquire one of the "scarcest coins ever" and would be excited to find
himself on the hook for regular approval shipments of similar value. The
person also might be interested in other limited edition Elvis plates and
cute child collectibles advertised in the Sunday newspaper inserts. If that
person had the wherewithal to actually research the FM offer, he also should
have had no trouble checking the local Yellow Pages for a coin shop.
>
> However, that FM customer has some kind business or hobby knowledge
> that you don't. He'd laugh at you for over-spending in some area that
> he has knowledge of that you don't.
Unlikely. Very unlikely.
tony cooper
wrote:
Of course he could find a dealer in the Yellow Pages, but the point
was that he'd need to do so because he isn't familiar enough with
coins to know where one was without looking it up.
>> However, that FM customer has some kind business or hobby knowledge
>> that you don't. He'd laugh at you for over-spending in some area that
>> he has knowledge of that you don't.
>
>Unlikely. Very unlikely.
>
Why is it unlikely? Most people are knowledgeable in some area but
completely clueless in other areas.
Bruce Remick
Thus he'd be a fool to pay $38 for something he wasn't familiar with based
entirely on a glossy come-on ad, in this case for an over-hyped circ Morgan.
Heaven forbid he should have to look anything up first.
>
>>> However, that FM customer has some kind business or hobby knowledge
>>> that you don't. He'd laugh at you for over-spending in some area that
>>> he has knowledge of that you don't.
>>
>>Unlikely. Very unlikely.
>>
> Why is it unlikely? Most people are knowledgeable in some area but
> completely clueless in other areas.
Sure. The FM customer is a perfect example. Those who may be clueless
would be well served to reduce their cluelessness before jumping into
unfamiliar waters.
tony cooper
Not at all. Coin dealers are often willing to negotiate price. A
knowledgeable coin collector may not offer the sticker price unless he
thinks the coin is undervalued, and even then he might dicker. The
FM customer thinks the sticker price is the right price and doesn't
know how to value the coin based on scarcity or condition.
There's nothing crooked about asking $50 for a coin that you are
willing to take $40 for. There's nothing crooked about accepting $45
for that coin even though you were willing to take $40 if offered and
there's nothing crooked about accepting $50 for it if the buyer
doesn't attempt to negotiate.
tony cooper
wrote:
>>>The person who would buy a $38 Morgan from FM would probably be unfamiliar
>>>with the coin and have no clue of how its true value is based on its
>>>condition. He would also believe that this could be his "last chance" to
>>>acquire one of the "scarcest coins ever" and would be excited to find
>>>himself on the hook for regular approval shipments of similar value. The
>>>person also might be interested in other limited edition Elvis plates and
>>>cute child collectibles advertised in the Sunday newspaper inserts. If
>>>that
>>>person had the wherewithal to actually research the FM offer, he also
>>>should
>>>have had no trouble checking the local Yellow Pages for a coin shop.
>>>
>> Of course he could find a dealer in the Yellow Pages, but the point
>> was that he'd need to do so because he isn't familiar enough with
>> coins to know where one was without looking it up.
>
>Thus he'd be a fool to pay $38 for something he wasn't familiar with based
>entirely on a glossy come-on ad, in this case for an over-hyped circ Morgan.
>Heaven forbid he should have to look anything up first.
>
Why is he a fool? There are some things you buy just because you want
to have them or like the looks of them. To a person who doesn't
collect or deal in coins, having an old coin may please him. If he
has the money, he's not foolish to spend it on something he wants to
own.
You have the narrow perspective of someone who knows something an area
and an interest in an area - coin collecting - that thinks that
everyone should think the same way you do.
I've been buying art and antiques for my home for decades. I'm sure
I've over-paid for some things, but I don't feel foolish about it.
I've bought things that I liked and wanted to have and I've been able
to afford. If I like a painting I'm not going to research the market
for that particular artist and only buy it if the price is in line
with previous sales of his work. I'm going to buy it if it pleases
me.
Bruce Remick
He's foolish to spend his good money on something he knows nothing about
without first shopping around or doing a bit of homework. Regardless of the
BS in that FM ad, those circ Morgans are not scarce will be available for
close to bullion value for many years to come. What would you call the
person who would spend $150 on a velvet Elvis tapestry he really wanted
without first seeing if he could buy the exact same thing on a street corner
or flea market for $35.00?
>
> You have the narrow perspective of someone who knows something an area
> and an interest in an area - coin collecting - that thinks that
> everyone should think the same way you do.
That's right. And I won't venture in to the porcelein collector plate or
Franklin Mint tribute arena without first doing some comparative shopping.
It's people with an attitude like yours who keep FM in business
>
> I've been buying art and antiques for my home for decades. I'm sure
> I've over-paid for some things, but I don't feel foolish about it.
> I've bought things that I liked and wanted to have and I've been able
> to afford. If I like a painting I'm not going to research the market
> for that particular artist and only buy it if the price is in line
> with previous sales of his work. I'm going to buy it if it pleases
> me.
You're exactly the type that FM is hoping to attract. People with more
money than time to check things out. You apparently have enough
discretionary cash that you don't have to worry about being ripped off, as
long as you like whatever you buy. I only wish I could paint something for
you.
Scurvy Dog
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:02:54 -0400, "Scurvy Dog"
> <scurv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:22qop59lb2em2nob7...@4ax.com...
>>> You are not the market for FM. The person who buys that Morgan from
>>> FM would have to look in the Yellow Pages to find a coin dealer and
>>> wouldn't know what coin to pick from the dealer's stash. If he did
>>> find a coin shop, the dealer would probably charge him more for the
>>> Morgan than you'd pay.
>>
>>You position rests on the shaky surmise that all dealers are crooks.
>>
> Not at all. Coin dealers are often willing to negotiate price. A
> knowledgeable coin collector may not offer the sticker price unless he
> thinks the coin is undervalued, and even then he might dicker. The
> FM customer thinks the sticker price is the right price and doesn't
> know how to value the coin based on scarcity or condition.
So preying on the ignorance of people is accepatble to you?
> There's nothing crooked about asking $50 for a coin that you are
> willing to take $40 for. There's nothing crooked about accepting $45
> for that coin even though you were willing to take $40 if offered and
> there's nothing crooked about accepting $50 for it if the buyer
> doesn't attempt to negotiate.
My local coin dealer has F-VF silver dollars in his display case clearly marked
at $20@- significantly less than the FM offers them for.
That price is right out there for everyone to see.
Yes, regular customers may get a few bucks off that price.
Nevertheless, the FM's offering is a gross rip off and bad for numismatics in
general (don't even get me started on the coin dealer cable shows!)
tony cooper
wrote:
Though your example is rather ludicrous, I would say that this is a
person who knows what he wants and is unwilling to waste his time
cruising around seedy neighborhoods looking for street-corner vendors.
I'd say that while his taste in tapestry is vile, he's at least not
hit rock bottom by wasting his time at flea markets.
>
>> You have the narrow perspective of someone who knows something an area
>> and an interest in an area - coin collecting - that thinks that
>> everyone should think the same way you do.
>
>That's right. And I won't venture in to the porcelein collector plate or
>Franklin Mint tribute arena without first doing some comparative shopping.
>It's people with an attitude like yours who keep FM in business
No, it's really people like you who think of things only in the terms
of investment rather than in terms of aesthetics. You hint that you'd
buy a porcelain collector plate if your research showed that the price
was right. I would only buy something like that if I liked it and
wanted to own it. Having never seen anything from FM that I liked and
wanted to own, I've never been concerned about comparative shopping
for their items.
>>
>> I've been buying art and antiques for my home for decades. I'm sure
>> I've over-paid for some things, but I don't feel foolish about it.
>> I've bought things that I liked and wanted to have and I've been able
>> to afford. If I like a painting I'm not going to research the market
>> for that particular artist and only buy it if the price is in line
>> with previous sales of his work. I'm going to buy it if it pleases
>> me.
>
>You're exactly the type that FM is hoping to attract. People with more
>money than time to check things out. You apparently have enough
>discretionary cash that you don't have to worry about being ripped off, as
>long as you like whatever you buy.
True, and I have no apologies for this. My father, a coin collector
and dealer, brought me up on the premise that the value of any object
is exactly what a willing buyer pays a willing seller. If that
willing buyer is pleased with the purchase, no one has been ripped off
regardless of the price.
>I only wish I could paint something for you.
Somehow I suspect you would offer a Thomas Kinkade-type painting
because Kinkade's work has cataloged value despite the fact that his
paintings are completely tasteless and without artistic merit.
MKW
are getting and they want those items. Whats wrong with an Elvis fan
wanting a medal..or a plate? Just because people are hard core
numismatists buying from your local mom and pop dealer does not make
then a sucker. I personally like Franklin Mint medals...new..where I
am the original owner. I dont think my dealer can help me there. I
would never sell unless to clear space. I could care less what the
retail is. There are lots of FM diecast car collectors that think the
same way.
MKW
of service. The had a staff of the finest artists and sculptors in
the world at one time. And produced exclusive producst not sold by
anyone else. They made many items right in there PA facility. The
fine pewter figurines, silver plates, coins and medals were un
matched.
Yes, the Morgan Dollar ad uses some corny come ons. But like I said.
They owners who directed this ad...former Morgan Mint people...are
gone from the company. This ad is being redeveloped as we speak.
But the price is still not WAY off line. I am sure there are some
dealers that would be cheaper and some would be higher. I like the
presentation and the story. If I wanted to invest in Morgans I would
call up the dealer.
MKW
surpases the beauty of any US Mint coinage...or that of any other
mint. Have you seen the masterpieces of Rodin? I would chose
that any day over a joke of a US commemorative coin for the boy scouts
that features a girl as the prominant image. Have you seen the
Franklin Mint boy scout medals from the 70's designed by Norman
Rockwell just for TFM? They are superior works of art.
Bruce Remick
It's not what they make. It's how they often market it.
Bruce Remick
> The Franklin Mint has developed some very fine products in its years
> of service. The had a staff of the finest artists and sculptors in
> the world at one time. And produced exclusive producst not sold by
> anyone else. They made many items right in there PA facility. The
> fine pewter figurines, silver plates, coins and medals were un
> matched.
>
> Yes, the Morgan Dollar ad uses some corny come ons. But like I said.
> They owners who directed this ad...former Morgan Mint people...are
> gone from the company. This ad is being redeveloped as we speak.
Corny? It's outright misrepresentation. Why have the current owners been
using their predecessor's ad?
>
> But the price is still not WAY off line. I am sure there are some
> dealers that would be cheaper and some would be higher. I like the
> presentation and the story. If I wanted to invest in Morgans I would
> call up the dealer.
The presentation is classic BS and the story....WHAT story? The Morgan
dollar is not among the "scarcest coins ever" and now is not one of the last
chances you might have to obtain one. The ad implies that you will receive
an 1878, but doesn't say so, not that it really matters. The "album"
appears to be a vinyl wallet, not what most people expectn as a coin album.
The coin you receive could also end up as a cleaned G4, yet FM would be
protected by its crafty wording. This cheap tactic is straight out of a TV
infomercial.
Their price is almost double what someone off the street might have to pay
in a coin shop, where the customer can inspect before buying. No dealer
would price a circ Morgan higher and stay in business long. With the FM
deal, you have no idea of the condition or appearance of the Morgan you'll
be getting. And of course there's that "limit" of 3 coins per order,
because they're so scarce no doubt. FM should stick to what it became known
for.
I presume Franklin Mint once was a quality outfit. Today's marketing
approach under the FM name tarnishes that.
tony cooper
<scurv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:4stpp51vmvpi6jpin...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:02:54 -0400, "Scurvy Dog"
>> <scurv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>news:22qop59lb2em2nob7...@4ax.com...
>>>> You are not the market for FM. The person who buys that Morgan from
>>>> FM would have to look in the Yellow Pages to find a coin dealer and
>>>> wouldn't know what coin to pick from the dealer's stash. If he did
>>>> find a coin shop, the dealer would probably charge him more for the
>>>> Morgan than you'd pay.
>>>
>>>You position rests on the shaky surmise that all dealers are crooks.
>>>
>> Not at all. Coin dealers are often willing to negotiate price. A
>> knowledgeable coin collector may not offer the sticker price unless he
>> thinks the coin is undervalued, and even then he might dicker. The
>> FM customer thinks the sticker price is the right price and doesn't
>> know how to value the coin based on scarcity or condition.
>
>So preying on the ignorance of people is accepatble to you?
It's hardly preying on ignorance if someone agrees to pay the price
asked for something.
>
>> There's nothing crooked about asking $50 for a coin that you are
>> willing to take $40 for. There's nothing crooked about accepting $45
>> for that coin even though you were willing to take $40 if offered and
>> there's nothing crooked about accepting $50 for it if the buyer
>> doesn't attempt to negotiate.
>
>My local coin dealer has F-VF silver dollars in his display case clearly marked
>at $20@- significantly less than the FM offers them for.
>That price is right out there for everyone to see.
>Yes, regular customers may get a few bucks off that price.
So preying on customers who aren't your regulars is acceptable to you?
See how silly your line of reasoning is?
>Nevertheless, the FM's offering is a gross rip off and bad for numismatics in
>general (don't even get me started on the coin dealer cable shows!)
>
You and Mr Remick seem to regard coins only as an investment. There
are people who are not interested in the investment angle but want to
own and hold a piece of history or an object that has some aesthetic
appeal to them. They are not concerned about saving $9.00 to own
something they want and they don't feel foolish for paying a small
premium for it.
Scurvy Dog
>>My local coin dealer has F-VF silver dollars in his display case clearly
>>marked
>>at $20@- significantly less than the FM offers them for.
>>That price is right out there for everyone to see.
>>Yes, regular customers may get a few bucks off that price.
>
> So preying on customers who aren't your regulars is acceptable to you?
>
> See how silly your line of reasoning is?
It's your reasoning that's specious.
You attempt to defend the FMs shoddy sales practices.
The dealer I mentioned clearly has a marked price that beats the FM by about
50%.
That he would give his good customers a slightly better price than a walk in is
just good business practice, not "preying" on the walk in.
tony cooper
<scurv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:lrhqp5ltpva00slbd...@4ax.com...
>
>>>My local coin dealer has F-VF silver dollars in his display case clearly
>>>marked
>>>at $20@- significantly less than the FM offers them for.
>>>That price is right out there for everyone to see.
>>>Yes, regular customers may get a few bucks off that price.
>>
>> So preying on customers who aren't your regulars is acceptable to you?
>>
>> See how silly your line of reasoning is?
>
>It's your reasoning that's specious.
>You attempt to defend the FMs shoddy sales practices.
Not at all. What I am defending is the person who buys that Morgan
dollar. Its his money and his choice to spend on whatever he wants to
spend it on.
>The dealer I mentioned clearly has a marked price that beats the FM by about
>50%.
>That he would give his good customers a slightly better price than a walk in is
>just good business practice, not "preying" on the walk in.
Of course its just good business practice. Selling something for the
posted price is also just good business practice. It is not preying
on the ignorant.
MKW
marketing was very professional and well concieved. The ads of the
70's, 80's, and 90's are all about the quality you will recieve,
exclusivity, and an intrinsic investment, or invest in history for
your kids...that kind of stuff.
Yes, I think this ad is corny about the Morgan. But I ordered it as I
am glad FM still has some type of a pulse...and I wanted the poster
too. The coin and wallet are not bad. Perfectly fine for the
price.
Scurvy Dog
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:13:36 -0400, "Scurvy Dog"
> <scurv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:lrhqp5ltpva00slbd...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>>My local coin dealer has F-VF silver dollars in his display case clearly
>>>>marked
>>>>at $20@- significantly less than the FM offers them for.
>>>>That price is right out there for everyone to see.
>>>>Yes, regular customers may get a few bucks off that price.
>>>
>>> So preying on customers who aren't your regulars is acceptable to you?
>>>
>>> See how silly your line of reasoning is?
>>
>>It's your reasoning that's specious.
>>You attempt to defend the FMs shoddy sales practices.
>
> Not at all. What I am defending is the person who buys that Morgan
> dollar. Its his money and his choice to spend on whatever he wants to
> spend it on.
But that's not what you started out claim.
But at this point I no longer care...
<PLONK>
Scurvy Dog
> But I ordered it ...
Very brave of you to admit that you are a complete idiot.
MKW
product...its not about the Morgan Dollar for me.
On Mar 14, 8:59 pm, "Scurvy Dog" <scurvyd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "MKW" <mwelbor...@aol.com> wrote in message
MKW
better made than anything out there. Made in the USA by the finest
sculptor, artisitc, and production staff. Most of the current US
Mint sculpting team used to work for Franklin Mint. The reason the
designs suck now at the US mint is because they have political
correctness forced on them.
I enjoy collecting private mint items. If a packaged morgan dollar is
all they are currently issuing then I will support it. Hopefully a
medallic set will be next on the drawing board.
On Mar 14, 8:59 pm, "Scurvy Dog" <scurvyd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "MKW" <mwelbor...@aol.com> wrote in message
Bruce Remick
I like the past issues of the FM, the medals, etc. The products were
better made than anything out there. Made in the USA by the finest
sculptor, artisitc, and production staff. Most of the current US
Mint sculpting team used to work for Franklin Mint. The reason the
designs suck now at the US mint is because they have political
correctness forced on them.
I enjoy collecting private mint items. If a packaged morgan dollar is
all they are currently issuing then I will support it. Hopefully a
medallic set will be next on the drawing board.
=========
Hopefully then, for the sake of society, FM will take a different approach
to marketing it if it hopes to reclaim any of its former reputation.
Scurvy Dog
>I enjoy collecting private mint items. If a packaged morgan dollar is
all they are currently issuing then I will support it. Hopefully a
medallic set will be next on the drawing board.
Except this isn't a private mint item, it's just a grossly overpriced Morgan
dollar in a cheap plastic case.
It's your money and you have a right to throw it away if you want.
A fool and his money and all that...
MKW
themed set. The old ancient coins FM used to sell were assembled into
some classy collections...like Coins of Mt Olympus. $10-$20 price
difference is not grossly overpriced unless you are a cheap person
that expects everything to be a bargain. If I wanted to build a set
of serious Morgans I would go to a dealer. But thats not my goal with
purchasing an item such as this.
Bruce Remick
There's nothing at all "classy" about FM's Morgan dollar offer. It is
designed to attract ignorant and naive people who will believe everything
they read in the ad and think it provides an elusive opportunity to get in
on something historical. FM should stick to making medals and diecasts and
stay away from these deceptive overpriced packages ales of stuff they don't
produce.
I suppose you'd think that anyone looking for the traditional discount on
their new car is a "cheap person", too, and should be satisfied with paying
the sticker price if they like the car.
MKW
isn't that absurd. There are plenty of dealers that would see it for
the same price.
An ad more in line with classic FM but for the colorized product theme
which is popular is this http://www.franklinmint.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=10018.
The last owners of FM liked the methods used in the Morgan Dollar ad.
The ads will most likely be re-worked but the focus is on other things
given the economy.
I only got the Morgan for a specific reason. If you recall I was the
first to say that the ad lines were cheesy. However the Rockwell
Print that came with the shipment is excellent and worth the price
alone. That print was an original by Rockwell for TFM in about 1976
to send to FM Collector Society Members. The original hung in the FM
Museum lobby for years and I had many good visits there with my
family. It was a great place full of the stuff TFM made. The great
audubon wildlife sculpts, medals, etc. Thats why I got it. I don't
care whether the Morgan is worth $1 or 1 cent or $500. I will say,
however, it looks identical to the one shown...date and all.
MKW
On Mar 15, 4:20 pm, "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
> "MKW" <mwelbor...@aol.com> wrote in message
tony cooper
wrote:
>
Funny you should mention automobiles. Automobile advertisements are
designed to make you believe that you will be young, sexy, successful,
and super-cool if you own that car. The offers of rebates, low down
payments, zero interest, and low monthly payments are all followed by
an asterisk that indicates that you probably won't qualify for that
offer. No payment for six months, but the interest accumulates.
Automobile ads are glossier, but no more honest than Franklin Mint's.
You will pay sticker price, or close to it, if you don't shop around.
No different from paying sticker price at FM instead of shopping
around coin dealers.
Scurvy Dog
>I have seen worse Morgans sell for the same price on Ebay. The price
> isn't that absurd. There are plenty of dealers that would see it for
> the same price.
I'll just come right out and say I think you are completely full of shit.
> I only got the Morgan for a specific reason. If you recall I was the
> first to say that the ad lines were cheesy. However the Rockwell
> Print that came with the shipment is excellent and worth the price
> alone.
I'm sure it will look great alongside your "dogs playing poker" print and your
Elvis on black velvet.
We get the message: you're an idiot, you're content to be an idiot and you plan
to stay an idiot.
MKW
Mr. Jaggers
> http://cgi.ebay.com/1884-S-MORGAN-DOLLAR-EXTRA-FINE-LUSTER-H25_W0QQitemZ360243114312QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item53e029b148
Why not be content with what you bought and what you paid for it and be done
with it? You are trying way too hard to convince people who have obviously
chosen to reject your every attempt to justify your action. What you do
with your coin money is, ultimately, your business, and your business alone.
James
Bruce Remick
At least 90% of ads embellish their product well beyond reality. Make that
91%. A legimate producer of quality medals shouldn't have to.
>
> You will pay sticker price, or close to it, if you don't shop around.
> No different from paying sticker price at FM instead of shopping
> around coin dealers.
I have bought many new cars since the early 1960's and have never paid
sticker price. It's a rare individual who does. Not always a need to shop
around. Any car dealer in a competitive area who won't bargain won't stay
in business long.
I would have no problem with paying list price for a legitimate medal or die
cast designed and produced by the Franklin Mint if it caught my eye as
attractive and I felt it was worth the asking price. I presume they don't
offer discounts. I also would have no other option for getting the piece.
I would NOT pay their price for a contrived and hyped Morgan dollar package
that even a tiny bit of looking would show could be found much cheaper most
elsewhere.
Mr. Jaggers
I agree completely with your philosophy and cleave to it whenever I can. I
guess I don't understand why you are insisting that others follow suit, or
berating them if they don't. Bottom line, it's a Barnum and Bailey world
for all of us in the end.
James the Clown
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:hnml0...@enews5.newsguy.com...
I don't mean to philosophize, but I guess I do sometimes. Some things just
rile me and here's one forum we have to to debate in. Or not. My own views
are fair game (ouch!) for being berated. Sure wouldn't be the first time
here. Keeps the wheels oiled.
Jon Purkey
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>You and Mr Remick seem to regard coins only as an investment. There
>are people who are not interested in the investment angle but want to
>own and hold a piece of history or an object that has some aesthetic
>appeal to them. They are not concerned about saving $9.00 to own
>something they want and they don't feel foolish for paying a small
>premium for it.
I know some people are willing to pay a premium. But companies like
The Franklin Mint that sell coins, often in collector panels, make it
sound like the buyer is getting a great deal. So I would imagine that
many customers do not KNOW they are paying a premium. I have never
checked to see what the re-sell value on those coin+stamp panels are,
but if it is anything like collector plates then it is probably not
even close to the original $19.95/$29.95 price for some coins.
I see the same hype in advertising for colorized and gold-plated coins
that make it sound as if the 24K gold-plating or colorizing adds a lot
of value to the coin.
I admit that I have bought a few gold-plated coins since I do think
they can look quite nice, esp. if the coin is BU. But I have never
paid more than a few cents to maybe a couple dollars over face value.
I bought a gold-plated Ike for $1.04 on eBay that probably sold for
$9.95 or $19.95 originally. It's a beautiful coin, even if it has
little value over $1.And with the current value of gold I may have
even paid less than spot for the gold. ;) I currently have the coin
displayed in a "Ft. Knox" display box that I bought from coinland.com.
Yeah, I paid 10 times more for the presentation than I did the coin,
but it looks nice in the case which I can always use in the future for
other coins that fit in a H38 air-title.
Mr. Jaggers
The world is awash in advertising hype of all kinds - political, religious,
and commercial - and it is getting worse with each passing day. Every day
it is harder and harder to separate fact from myth. The objective of
teaching students to become critical thinkers sees much ink in published
education standards, but its implementation and testing are normally
assigned very low priority, as doing it properly would run counter to the
objectives of some very wealthy and powerful people. I fear that this trend
will end extremely badly.
James the Crepe Hanger
som...@some.domain
informed.
MKW
intrinsic art etc etc...and it was all true..the quality of the medal
right down to the solid american walnut case (not made in China) was
stunning.
MKW
branded product. Postal Commemorative Society makes some nice
panels. Their advertising is also fairly mundane. FM used to offer
some nice world coin set panels. It was a very popular program and
classic FM.
tony cooper
wrote:
You could say the same thing about any number of products. Many of
them, though, are things that you either don't know where to shop
around for a better buy or the price differential is small enough that
it's not worth the bother. However, because you are a coin collector
or a coin dealer, this particular situation bothers you.
It shouldn't. No one in your position is going to buy those Morgans.
The guy that is going to buy one is a person who doesn't know where
else to shop or doesn't care if he can save eight or nine bucks. He
just sees something he wants. Why bust his balls for doing something
that pleases him?
I've never been tempted to buy *anything* from Franklin Mint. I have
no interest in medals or die cast models or any of the other cheesy
stuff they sell. But, I don't hold it against them to make some
product I'm not interested in available to someone who is interested.
And, I'm not arrogant enough to pronounce someone else foolish for
buying something I wouldn't buy or paying a price that I wouldn't pay.
Bruce Remick
Even in the 70's, FM ads embellished their medals as works of
intrinsic art etc etc...and it was all true..the quality of the medal
right down to the solid american walnut case (not made in China) was
stunning.
That's not the type of embellishment I was thinking of. It's not even
embellishment, IMO. I was thinking more of the "extremely scarce" and
"last chance" type of claims for items that are otherwise relatively common
and inexpensive. FM's foray into the hyped US coin field has tainted the
perceived reputation I had of it.
Scurvy Dog
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:_pCnn.12488$ao7....@newsfe21.iad...
>
> "MKW" <mwelb...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:bfe893a5-d061-45d6...@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
> Even in the 70's, FM ads embellished their medals as works of
> intrinsic art etc etc...and it was all true..the quality of the medal
> right down to the solid american walnut case (not made in China) was
> stunning.
> ========
>
> That's not the type of embellishment I was thinking of. It's not even
> embellishment, IMO. I was thinking more of the "extremely scarce" and "last
> chance" type of claims for items that are otherwise relatively common and
> inexpensive. FM's foray into the hyped US coin field has tainted the
> perceived reputation I had of it.
Let's not forget the scam it's running with the gold plated Prexibux...
Bruce Remick
My being a coin collector merely makes the ripoff more obvious. If FM was
selling presidential campaign buttons the same way, it wouldn't be obvious
to me, but based only on the hype I probably would do some price research if
the items interested me. Anyone who can't figure out where to look for
information about older US coins deserves to pay $38 for a $20 circ Morgan.
I'm sure those are the ones FM is targeting.
>
> It shouldn't. No one in your position is going to buy those Morgans.
> The guy that is going to buy one is a person who doesn't know where
> else to shop or doesn't care if he can save eight or nine bucks. He
> just sees something he wants. Why bust his balls for doing something
> that pleases him?
You seem to be making my point that FM is exploiting the uninformed and
naive with this promotion.
>
> I've never been tempted to buy *anything* from Franklin Mint. I have
> no interest in medals or die cast models or any of the other cheesy
> stuff they sell. But, I don't hold it against them to make some
> product I'm not interested in available to someone who is interested.
> And, I'm not arrogant enough to pronounce someone else foolish for
> buying something I wouldn't buy or paying a price that I wouldn't pay.
I have never bought a Franklin Mint product either. I had always heard that
they mostly produced sets of collectible medals, ornaments, and similar
stuff at fairly high prices, but that there was seldom an aftermarket for
most of it if a buyer ever decided to liquidate. I might find it
interesting if they were use their artisans to produce a high quality set of
medallic reproductions of early US coins. Maybe they already have.
Mr. Jaggers
Willful ignorance is the worst of all.
James the Maker of Proverbs
som...@some.domain
i didn't know it was loaded, honest!
MKW
sales to $1 Billion with a large staff of talented people. Some of
the best in the industry. But the Resnicks also drove FM to mass
market with the cheaper $30 plates etc. Abandoned the long time
customers of the nice items. By about 2000 FM tried to swing back the
traditional higher end product...including some stunning bronzes. But
it was too late..the market had changed and FM was not prepared.
Its the Morgan Mint owners that drove FM to the Morgan Dollar type
ad. But they are gone now. They also got FM hooked into that cheesy
sponsership by jay johnson...36th director of the US Mint. I am glad
that I dont have to see that on certificates anymore.
I got the Morgan dollar as a sample of an upstart product from the new
FM. It has nothing to do with collecting Morgans..or coins...to me
its about collecting the FM brand...much like someone would collect
Lionel trains..or Corvettes.
On Mar 15, 10:54 pm, "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
> "MKW" <mwelbor...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > 91%. A legimate producer of quality medals shouldn't have to.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
tony cooper
wrote:
>> You could say the same thing about any number of products. Many of
>> them, though, are things that you either don't know where to shop
>> around for a better buy or the price differential is small enough that
>> it's not worth the bother. However, because you are a coin collector
>> or a coin dealer, this particular situation bothers you.
>
>My being a coin collector merely makes the ripoff more obvious. If FM was
>selling presidential campaign buttons the same way, it wouldn't be obvious
>to me, but based only on the hype I probably would do some price research if
>the items interested me. Anyone who can't figure out where to look for
>information about older US coins deserves to pay $38 for a $20 circ Morgan.
>I'm sure those are the ones FM is targeting.
>
>>
>> It shouldn't. No one in your position is going to buy those Morgans.
>> The guy that is going to buy one is a person who doesn't know where
>> else to shop or doesn't care if he can save eight or nine bucks. He
>> just sees something he wants. Why bust his balls for doing something
>> that pleases him?
>
>You seem to be making my point that FM is exploiting the uninformed and
>naive with this promotion.
No, to "exploit" is to take advantage of. There's no indication that
the FM buyer is being taken advantage of. The buyer is not denied the
opportunity to shop around for a better coin or a better price. They
are not trapped into buying from FM. It's not FM's responsibility to
direct customers to comparative shop. They offer the product and the
buyer makes the decision whether or not to buy it.
The people who buy these Morgans from FM are spending their money the
way that they want to. Just because you would not spend your money
the same way is no reason to criticize either the buyer or the seller.
Relayer
> For the condition, the price isn't that far off. �I have seen them
> sell for similar on Ebay.
>
> http://www.franklinmintmorgan.com/a/B21F059a.cfm?ld=com
Two reasons I would by from Ebay instead. I just bought a graded 1878
(NGC) and I like to keep my sets with the same grading company
Other reason is typically on Ebay, there is a photo so you see the
actual coin. Who knows what grade Franklin would actually send to you
Bruce Remick
The Resnicks were the last grand scale owners of the FM. The drove
sales to $1 Billion with a large staff of talented people. Some of
the best in the industry. But the Resnicks also drove FM to mass
market with the cheaper $30 plates etc. Abandoned the long time
customers of the nice items. By about 2000 FM tried to swing back the
traditional higher end product...including some stunning bronzes. But
it was too late..the market had changed and FM was not prepared.
Its the Morgan Mint owners that drove FM to the Morgan Dollar type
ad. But they are gone now. They also got FM hooked into that cheesy
sponsership by jay johnson...36th director of the US Mint. I am glad
that I dont have to see that on certificates anymore.
I got the Morgan dollar as a sample of an upstart product from the new
FM. It has nothing to do with collecting Morgans..or coins...to me
its about collecting the FM brand...much like someone would collect
Lionel trains..or Corvettes.
=======
As loyal as you seem to be to FM, I would think you'd be ashamed and
embarassed to display that Morgan junk beside FM's traditional products.
I've always favored Chevys, but I wouldn't allow a Vega in my driveway.
Bruce Remick
Like the buyers of snake oil and 1950's Florida land.
>
> The people who buy these Morgans from FM are spending their money the
> way that they want to. Just because you would not spend your money
> the same way is no reason to criticize either the buyer or the seller.
Anyone can be subject to criticizm, with or without reason. And the
criticizer can be criticized as well.
Mr. Jaggers
And how would you feel about a '75 Nova?
James the Walrus
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:hno10...@enews5.newsguy.com...
Ugh. Unless maybe it sported a blown 455.
mazorj
Hey! My first new car was a blue '68 Nova. As basic as it gets, but
absolutely reliable and cheap & easy to maintain.
Not that it would have been my first choice, but the fact that it was a gift
to my new bride from my new mother-in-law settled that question without it
being asked. :-I
- mazorj the Nova Novitiate
Bruce Remick
"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hno4gt$d6m$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Just like that Christmas tie or sweater from Aunt Gladys. The price was
right though, eh?
mazorj
Some things you just don't question.
Scurvy Dog
> As loyal as you seem to be to FM, I would think you'd be ashamed and
> embarassed to display that Morgan junk beside FM's traditional products. I've
> always favored Chevys, but I wouldn't allow a Vega in my driveway.
I had a silver Vega station wagon which was a sharp looking little car.
Unfortunately, the engine was the biggest POS Chevy ever released and burned oil
like nobody's business.
GM replaced it twice under warranty.
After the second engine, I got rid of the car while it still moved under its own
power!
Bruce Remick
"Scurvy Dog" <scurv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hnob8q$tdh$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
IIRC, wasn't that the one where you had to jack the thing up and remove a
front wheel just to get at one of the plugs-- back in those ancient times
when people actually changed spark plugs, and by themselves no less?
Michael Benveniste
> IIRC, wasn't that the one where you had to jack the thing up and remove a
> front wheel just to get at one of the plugs-- back in those ancient times
> when people actually changed spark plugs, and by themselves no less?
I believe you are thinking of the V8 versions of the Chevy Monza. That car
was based on the Vega and was originally designed for a Wankel Rotary.
Between the gas crisis and anti-smog controls, the mid-1970's was not a
good time for gearheads. I think the Monza still holds the record for
getting the least horsepower out of those V8's. The 4.3L V8 eeked out
110. The 5.7L managed 125, and the later 5.0L pumped out a mighty
140.
--
Mike Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification Required)
Don't succumb to the false authority of a tool or model. There
is no substitute for thinking.
Scurvy Dog
"Michael Benveniste" <m...@murkyether.com> wrote in message
news:80a5fe...@mid.individual.net...
> "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:tEOnn.36945$mn6....@newsfe07.iad...
>
>> IIRC, wasn't that the one where you had to jack the thing up and remove a
>> front wheel just to get at one of the plugs-- back in those ancient times
>> when people actually changed spark plugs, and by themselves no less?
>
> I believe you are thinking of the V8 versions of the Chevy Monza. That car
> was based on the Vega and was originally designed for a Wankel Rotary.
>
> Between the gas crisis and anti-smog controls, the mid-1970's was not a
> good time for gearheads. I think the Monza still holds the record for
> getting the least horsepower out of those V8's. The 4.3L V8 eeked out
> 110. The 5.7L managed 125, and the later 5.0L pumped out a mighty
> 140.
My Vega had a surprisingly peppy 4 banger which was hooked up to the optional 4
speed manual tranny (3 speed was standard). (I believe the automatic offered was
the ancient 2 speed Powerglide but I could be wrong)
The Vega was an easy car to work on. Oil changes, tuneups and such were no
problem at all.
The problem with the Vega was the aluminum engine block and head gasket
problems.
If only they would have used a cast iron block or cylinder sleeves, the Vega
would be more fondly remembered today.
IMO, the Vega wagon (which I owned) was the most attractive model offered.
MKW
that came with it. Sure, if they did some new medals..or a poker set
featuring replica Morgan Dollars as the playing chips...that would be
excellent. With Postal Commemorative Society...when they issue real
coins in cachets...if I like the cachet or panel..then I will get it.
Bruce Remick
> news:tEOnn.36945$mn6....@newsfe07.iad...
>
>> IIRC, wasn't that the one where you had to jack the thing up and remove a
>> front wheel just to get at one of the plugs-- back in those ancient times
>> when people actually changed spark plugs, and by themselves no less?
>
> I believe you are thinking of the V8 versions of the Chevy Monza. That
> car
> was based on the Vega and was originally designed for a Wankel Rotary.
>
> Between the gas crisis and anti-smog controls, the mid-1970's was not a
> good time for gearheads. I think the Monza still holds the record for
> getting the least horsepower out of those V8's. The 4.3L V8 eeked out
> 110. The 5.7L managed 125, and the later 5.0L pumped out a mighty
> 140.
Ahhh. That's the one. I remember it now. Another Chevy I'd prefer stay off
my driveway.
Scurvy Dog
Pontiac had their own version of the Vega, the Astre, which was a better car
with more options and a better engine.
I haven't seen a Vega on the street for a good many years now but one of the
locals has a Cosworth Vega that he brings out for parades and the annual local
car show.
Bruce Remick
The Cosworth is pretty rare today, but still was a pretty much underpowered
bust at the time. Olds had the Starfire and Buick had the Skyhawk, both
apparently kin to the Vega and Astre. Lots of failed experiments in those
1970's.
Scurvy Dog
Wikipedia has some info on H platform GM cars of the 70s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_H_platform_(RWD)
tony cooper
MKW
examples out of many. These are all post 1998. All exclusive design
and production. Hope the pics work. The postal cover with the ship
medal is 1.5 ounces of 24kt gold...sold in Japan around 2000. The
last is Rodin's Balzac from the Rodin series. Spectacular high
relief...full die capture..no weakly struck areas. The days of these
medals are long gone.
[IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/mkwelbornjr/FM%20Stuff/
FMBattleoftheGladiator2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/mkwelbornjr/FM%20Stuff/
FMJPN2000Holland400th24ktGoldPNC-1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/mkwelbornjr/FM%20Stuff/
FMJPN2000Holland400th24ktGoldPNC-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/mkwelbornjr/FM%20Stuff/
FMJPN2005ChinaMythCOR-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/mkwelbornjr/FM%20Stuff/
FMJPN2007CharlieChaplin30thCOR24ktG.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/mkwelbornjr/FM%20Stuff/
FMJPN2009ImperialWedding50thPNC-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/mkwelbornjr/FM%20Stuff/
FMRodinSilverArtMedals-Balzac.jpg[/IMG]
MKW
the order is still there. Check em out.
Bruce Remick
Now that's some better stuff in that parking area. Or it was. I'd bet
you'd be hard pressed to find a Vega or any of its GM platform siblings in a
junkyard today. There was no reason to save them from the crusher.
mazorj
> news:tEOnn.36945$mn6....@newsfe07.iad...
>
>> IIRC, wasn't that the one where you had to jack the thing up and remove a
>> front wheel just to get at one of the plugs-- back in those ancient times
>> when people actually changed spark plugs, and by themselves no less?
>
> I believe you are thinking of the V8 versions of the Chevy Monza. That
> car
> was based on the Vega and was originally designed for a Wankel Rotary.
>
> Between the gas crisis and anti-smog controls, the mid-1970's was not a
> good time for gearheads. I think the Monza still holds the record for
> getting the least horsepower out of those V8's. The 4.3L V8 eeked out
> 110. The 5.7L managed 125, and the later 5.0L pumped out a mighty 140.
I can't remember which one, and it may have been urban legend, but back in
the 1960s reputedly on one of the pricier foreign sports cars, to replace
the spark plugs the Chilton drill was
1. Remove engine.
- mazorj, Shadetree Mechanic
"Stupid car designers! What were all these left-over parts doing in my
engine?"
Bruce Remick
Maybe that was the one where the engine was periodically replaced but the
spark plugs could be reused.
Peter
> I guess the pics didn't work. Each is a link to the whole album..but
> the order is still there. Check em out.
Actually, if you strip out the useless bits (e.g., [IMG] and the
spaces and punctuation) and copy and paste the links into your
browser, it can work.
tony cooper
wrote:
>
I found this one in a junkyard:
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Other/Salvage-Yard/117/523640758_MQuUM-XL.jpg
Bruce Remick
The Corvair seldom got the public apathy that the Vega did until that
certain advocate chose to make the Corvair his windmill. I always thought
they were sorta bold, innovative, and interesting, even sporty, a feeling I
never had toward the Vega and its brothers.
som...@some.domain
carbs synched. i finally spot welded to two bars to the adjusters. lost the
adjustment but they never got out of it.
Frank Provasek
> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:fmd2q5d50m05jva6g...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:31:36 -0400, "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net>
> > wrote:
>
>
> The Corvair seldom got the public apathy that the Vega did until that
> certain advocate chose to make the Corvair his windmill. I always thought
> they were sorta bold, innovative, and interesting, even sporty, a feeling I
>
> - Show quoted text -
A car collector I worked with about 10 years ago offered to take us
for a ride in his restored '63 Corvair. Scary ride...
notice the rear end motion in this contemporaneous TV commercial
starting at about 40 secounds
Scurvy Dog
> The Corvair seldom got the public apathy that the Vega did until that certain
> advocate chose to make the Corvair his windmill. I always thought they were
> sorta bold, innovative, and interesting, even sporty, a feeling I never had
> toward the Vega and its brothers.
By the time Nadar got around to tilting at the Corvair, the problem had already
been fixed by adding another universal joint to each rear axle.
Later model Corvairs were attractively styled and good daily drivers.
Scurvy Dog
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:4b6f80c7-792e-4173...@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>A car collector I worked with about 10 years ago offered to take us
for a ride in his restored '63 Corvair. Scary ride...
notice the rear end motion in this contemporaneous TV commercial
starting at about 40 secounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOpRe-M_rSE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't see any unusual action.
The car was merely going over some bumps.
Bruce Remick
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:4b6f80c7-792e-4173...@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOpRe-M_rSE
============
You're surprised at rear end motion on beach sand? I might have expected to
see some fishtailing, but I didn't see any in that clip either. Most likely
the Chevy brass selected the best take anyway. A scary ride? Try a 425hp
1963 Impala at speed along that same sand route.
Scurvy Dog
> You're surprised at rear end motion on beach sand? I might have expected to
> see some fishtailing, but I didn't see any in that clip either. Most likely
> the Chevy brass selected the best take anyway. A scary ride? Try a 425hp
> 1963 Impala at speed along that same sand route.
Indeed.
The problem (which was grossly overstated by Nadar) was in cornering, not going
in a straight line.
All this was corrected by 1965, as I noted before.
The modified Corvair was a good car but Chevy couldn't overcome the bad press
generated by Nadar's misguided crusade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvair
MKW
always after GM for something. In recent years they were blammed for
forcing people to buy gas guzzling trucks and SUVs...shame on them
lol People buy what they want..most people dont want a 2 seat car
that they have to plug in..and most people don't work in downtown DC
at a rights group office and live one block away.
Mr. Jaggers
Boy, have I been in the dark lately! First, I find out that a female is
depicted on a boy scout commemorative coin, and now I learn that GM has
secretly been forcing Americans to buy their products! But this business of
"rights groups" right in the downtown area of *my* country is going too far!
What is this world coming to? This is just plain un-American! I'm going to
call into the Limbaugh "open mike Friday" show and report this.
James
Bruce Remick
"MKW" <mwelb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:96b5e2c6-771f-4ec8...@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
I haven't noticed GM being singled out for their gas guzzler trucks and
SUV's. Last I heard, everyone from Toyota to the big howevermany US
automakers were making V8 trucks and SUV's. I have no idea what most people
want or don't want, except maybe for bland muted earth colors in their
vehicles. As one who grew up with chromy 2-tone paint monsters in the
1950's, I find today's car color choices to be very.....peaceful.
To really save fuel, parhaps we should concentrate more on putting hybrid
engines in those big gas guzzlers instead of in the little cars that likely
could get 30mpg anyway.
Around here, most people DO work in downtown DC, but it's difficult to find
much housing one block away. From what I see, lots of the "rights groups"
seem to be set up in the suburbs in strip malls.
Mr. Jaggers
Serves 'em right. Nobody fighting for rights should get first-class
accommodations. If Valley Forge was good enough for Washington and his
army, it should be good enough for a bunch of bleeding heart libruls today.
James the Reactionary
George
Still a few around
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-1975-Chevy-Cosworth-Vega-Twin-Cam-Original-Vintage_W0QQitemZ320520311799
Not mine
--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.
George
OVer 5000 listed including parts
still not mine