But PCGS graded them!
PC
not as described. In one case a coin had a couple small white spots whereas
the other one was covered with large unsightly spots all over the obverse.
What struck me is odd is that in both cases when I inquired about a return
the seller implied I should be happy with the coin in spite of the problems
since it was graded by PCGS and is in plastic.
Actual quotes:
"These spots are the natural toning process of the coin...the coin is what
it is a proof 69 graded by PCGS. If you belive (sic) that coins will
maintain their pristing look they have form (sic) the mint over time then
your (sic) mistaken. you should bone up on toning effects of silver over
time."
"What seems to be the problem? I didn't grade them - PCGS did. And they
are encased in plastic"
I am not sure if these sellers really believe that but then I have been
reading this NG for 5+ years now and it is difficult for me to remember that
I might have harbored the attitude that all graded coins are equal. I
wonder if there really are people that believe if the coin is graded by PCGS
then it could really be a dog turd but still worth as much.
This just got me to thinking about one of the first phrases I came across on
this NG that stuck with me early on: "Buy the coin and not the plastic".
This is such simple, yet excellent advice.
I am curious about other sellers - do you just list a coin and assume the
photograph is enough or do you elaborate on flaws? I decided long ago to
just point out everything and I have been surprised that on auctions where I
clearly pointed out flaws, flaws that sometimes were not easily visible in
the photo, they finished close to or even better than what I was hoping for/
Mr. Jaggers
It's becoming more and more common for sellers to hide behind plastic and
refuse return privilege. When they do that, of one thing we can be sure:
they don't believe in the slab grades, no matter who the slabber. As for
me, I'm finding fewer and fewer slab grades that I agree with. Maybe all
the properly graded slabs get snapped up before I have access to them, but
then there still needs to be an explanation as to how a VF coin got in an XF
slab to begin with.
James
oly
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually, slabbed coins tend to illustrate Gresham's Law (Bad money
drives out good).
Let's say a dealer gets back two coins from the slabber. Both come
back as MS 63, but the dealer knows that one coins was lucky to get
the 63, while the other coin should have gotten a better grade.
The dealer guards the low end coin in that 63 holder. He cracks out
the other coin and after a few resubmissions, the coin finally comes
back as a 65 - which it probably doesn't deserve.
Now for these two coins, they will remain in their currents slabs
forever. They are a low end 63, and a low end 65. Nobody in their
right minds would crack them out.
These two low end (for the grade) coins will be in dealer's cases for
a long time, People like PC, playing the crack out game, won't buy
either one. Those people only want slabbed coins that are high end
for the grade. Average coins for the grade and coins that are below
average for the grade can't make them any money.
Bad slabbed coins drive out good slabbed coins. The good slabbed
coins either leave the market completely, in the hand of real
collectors; or they get resubmitted, ad infinitum, until they end up
as overgraded in another slab with a higher grade (but at a point
where they are low end for that higher grade).
Bad money drives out good.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I think you said that one other time.
James
oly
Yes, I probably did.
!!!Niks sCP rednu teg dluoc I fi ees ot detnaw yllaer I.
oly
PC
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fb07436e-2475-4470...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Why do you insist on being a liar? I have never cracked a coin out of its
case and do not ever plan to. If you are a real man you will apologize.
<<<
Bad slabbed coins drive out good slabbed coins. The good slabbed
coins either leave the market completely, in the hand of real
collectors;
>>>
This describes me. I am culling excellent examples for the grade to keep.
mazorj
...
< Bad slabbed coins drive out good slabbed coins. The good slabbed
coins either leave the market completely, in the hand of real
collectors; or they get resubmitted, ad infinitum, until they end up
as overgraded in another slab with a higher grade (but at a point
where they are low end for that higher grade).
The Peter Principle as applied to numismatics!
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
???raiL ???raiL
!!!dehsilpmocca noissiM
oly
Frank
they trade sight unseen based on the grade on the slab, with the
understanding that the grading service is responsible for any
claims.
Most auction sales hold to these terms. Expect to pay more for
premium coins, or those with a return privilege. I pay substantial
premiums over "Bluesheet" but still receive a number of lowball offers
for 10% under the wholesale value of ugly coins.
----
Frank Provasek Rare Coins
http://www.frankcoins.com Ebay FRANKCOINS
Member ANA, Texas Numismatic Assoc, Texas Coin Dealers Assoc,
PCGS, NGC, & ANACS authorized dealer, Texas Auctioneer Lic 11259
Mr. Jaggers
> When slabbed coins trade dealer-to-dealer, the standard terms are that
> they trade sight unseen based on the grade on the slab, with the
> understanding that the grading service is responsible for any
> claims.
Anyone, dealer or collector, who buys coins sight unseen based on the grade
on the slab, does so at his peril, and usually experiences it.
James
PC
>
>
> Why do you insist on being a liar? I have never cracked a coin out of its
> case and do not ever plan to.
>
> If you are a real man you will apologize.
>
???raiL ???raiL
!!!dehsilpmocca noissiM
>>>
We have our answer.
PC
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:gnq37...@enews2.newsguy.com...
eBay auctions are considered sight unseen by me. The pictures provided are
usually worthless. Having a seller who produces large, clear photos is
truly a rare thing on eBay.
Mr. Jaggers
I guess I've been lucky, as I generally get what I expect. But, yes, the
photo has to be of good quality, showing both sides of the coin, and have a
return privilege. My purchases are mostly of world coins, so maybe that is
what makes the difference.
James
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am told by two local veteran ebay coin sellers that they get 1/3 to
1/2 of all U.S. coins that they sell on ebay back for a refund.
People are trying (or hoping) to play the crackout game with the
slabs; with raw coins, the same people try to get more than they paid
for in terms of quality, hoping to get the piece in a slab with a high
grade and make a quick buck.
When the small fry who can't even afford to travel to major coin shows
are playing this game, the game is up.
U.S. slabbed coins are one more good reason to collect world coins.
oly
Bruce Remick
_______________
I've always wanted to buy a couple nice early thalers and/or pillar dollars,
but have lately become gunshy after hearing so much about tricky raw Chinese
copies. I suppose the only safe alternative to slabbed examples is to seek
out a reliable big time world coin dealer and to be resigned to paying top
price.
Mr. Jaggers
Early thalers (late ones, too) are a favorite target for the modern Chinese
counterfeiter, but the pillar dollars have been counterfeited literally for
centuries. It's getting harder and harder not to get snookered by the
unscrupulous these days, so know your dealer, and there are many well-known
and reputable ones. They are entitled to their fair markup, so even if you
have to pay "top" price, enjoy your coins and bitch not.
James
oly
> Bruce Remick wrote:
> > "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
I agree that counterfeit world coins are getting better and better all
the time. It is way scary. I don't have a problem with buying a
slabbed coin for reasons of authentication. OTOH, if you don't have
experience in what certain coins should look like, maybe you should
buy books or just go on a nice vacation with those discretionary
funds.
oly
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
One of our basic freedoms is the freedom to bitch about a price. I see it
practiced here often. :>)
Mr. Jaggers
Oh all right, repeat after me: Cripes, you wouldn't believe what I had to
pay that jerk of a dealer for a common pillar dollar in VF. He must have a
boat payment due.
James
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Now wait a minute. You said stick with well-known, reputable dealers. No
more jerks, please. There are enough of those in my area already. Now I
need to find a few reputable dealers. Any recommendations? And I don't
trust dealers who are making boat payments. Same with doctors, dentists,
and financial advisors.
PC
I am told by two local veteran ebay coin sellers that they get 1/3 to
1/2 of all U.S. coins that they sell on ebay back for a refund.
>>>
I get very few returns.
>>>
People are trying (or hoping) to play the crackout game with the
slabs; with raw coins, the same people try to get more than they paid
for in terms of quality, hoping to get the piece in a slab with a high
grade and make a quick buck.
When the small fry who can't even afford to travel to major coin shows
are playing this game, the game is up.
<<<
If they really even exist...
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
I was thinking about posting this with your last insult of RF. Then I
held back. But nope, pathetic cunts like PC never shut up
++++++++++++++
My, my what irony.
If a politically correct f**ktard like yourself lived in Illinois, you
would have voted for Blago for Governor twice.
The only other available choices were a respectable white male
Republican and a very fine white woman Republican.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"A 2009 Odious Ode for PC"
It's really a combination of despair, fear and poverty.
He realizes deep down that he's doomed.
He hates his job, but he's desperate to keep it.
He's upside down on a mortage on a shitty little house in a
diversified neighborhood, ie a slum.
He can't afford to fill up the tank, but his best offer on their $48K
SUV is $3K on Craigslist.
His wife is getting ready to leave with her kayak instructor.
His(?) son is as queer as a $3 bill and he prances around saying
things like "jeepers".
21% of Hennepin County's bandwidth is pix of his daughter's labia
being downloaded across the world.
Under normal circumstances, he should have the common decency to shoot
himself in the head.
But he has no gun.
So he comes here to talk about his imaginary "slabbed coin holdings".
oly
note.boy
"PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
news:gnq5bl$hsa$1...@reader.motzarella.org...
I wonder why??? :-) Billy
Mr. Jaggers
I hate it when my dentist takes one look in my mouth and says, "Oh, now I
can get that new Mercedes."
I will send you a private email with info on one of my favorite, if lesser
known, dealers who don't do boats.
James
PC
>> eBay auctions are considered sight unseen by me. The pictures provided
>> are usually worthless. Having a seller who produces large, clear photos
>> is truly a rare thing on eBay.
>>
>>
> I wonder why??? :-) Billy
The better to rip you off, my dear. Eeeee hehe heheheheh!
PC
Looks like I struck a nerve too close to the truth.
First you hijack my thread in order to allege that I am some sort of
crackout gamer. I am not. Now you desperately try to insult me in the most
vulgar and dehumanizing ways you can think of. You look really desperate.
I was right - you are making this stuff up. You, sir, are a liar.
oly
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
Don't forget PC - you have problems with blackface and you adore Al
Franken.
oly
PC
*reply not read*
You are as bad as RWF. You have really shown an ugly, low side of yourself.
You should be ashamed.
note.boy
Even if the seller provides a large picture of a coin it is often ignored
and bidders bid according to the assigned grade ignoring the information
supplied by the pics. Billy