Man on trial for minting his own currency
Gene85
Department of Justice Press Release
For Immediate Release
March 18, 2011 United States Attorney's Office
Western District of North Carolina
Contact: (704) 344-6222
Defendant Convicted of Minting His Own Currency
http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel11/ce031811.htm
Frank Provasek
Mint declared the Liberty dollar stuff legal 20 years ago, since it
was one of the MANY voluntary barter currencies in use, and the
designs were totally unlike any US coins, past or present. But once
the Liberty dollar people began to support Ron Paul, and started
talking about honest money, auditing the Federal Reserve, pulling out
the 1/2 million military troops we have in 150 foreign
countries...well, THAT has to be stopped...
Little Ricky
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss200/mskourtes/1Norfed2003PCGS66PPQ1.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss200/mskourtes/1Norfed2003PCGS66PPQ2.jpg
"Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
news:8ab297c1-8462-4b21...@x18g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
oly
If you could cite the correspondence or interpretive letter(s) where
both the U.S. Secret Service and the U.S. Mint "declared the stuff
legal" some 20 years ago, you could do Mr. Von Nohthaus a very great
favor.
But, we know you can't. Frank the Failed Armchair Lawyer.
oly
Frank Provasek
http://www.kevinalfredstrom.com/2009/06/alternative-currency-now-a-crime
The Liberty Dollar folks weren’t trying to do anything illegal, and in
fact kept the relevant authorities informed of what they were doing,
even asking them for legal opinions — Claudia Dickens, spokeswoman for
the U.S. Treasury Department’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing, said
“There’s nothing illegal about this.” After the Treasury Department’s
legal team reviewed the currency, she reiterated “As long as it
doesn’t say ‘legal tender’ there’s nothing wrong with it.”
"It’s not counterfeit money,” according to Ron Legan, Special Agent in
Charge of the Seattle, Washington, Secret Service field office.
Amazingly, the Liberty Dollar folks find themselves charged under
statutes intended to prevent counterfeiting — though they never made
any claim that Liberty Dollars are government currency, and they do
not even slightly resemble U.S. coins or bills. Logan investigated and
concluded that the Liberty Dollars are well within the boundaries of
American monetary guidelines. “We determined there wasn’t a federal
currency violation,” he said. Apparently a rogue and politically-
motivated element in the Department of Justice disagrees.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, no, don't stand the issue on it's head with a lightweight throw-
away two-year old blog - you said the U.S Secret Service and the U.S.
Mint said twenty years ago that this Liberty Dollar stuff was
"legal". I don't want some blogger's mental masturbation second hand
from you. I want correspondence, interpretive letters/ guidances from
the U.S. Secret Service and the U.S. Mint.
Anybody can blog anything at anytime, correct or incorrect, and then a
quick 30 second search on a decent search engine can find it. But
you'll never find anything on this matter that binds the feds, because
it was never issued by them in the first place.
The other RCC denizens should go look at the "proof" that Frank
linked. Lightweight, facile piece, throw-away blog stuff. Good
picture of a late-issue Liberty Dollar, however.
Real letters and genuine correspondence from the Secret Service and
Mint on the validity of 'private currencies' (nice euphanaism)??? If
they existed, don't you think that one or more of Mr. Nothaus'
supporters, lawyers or somebody would have presented them in pre-trial
discovery???
Go find something that might have real legal standing, Frank; you're a
regular Fairy Mason.
oly
P.S. Again, there's nothing stopping you or anybody from minting
silver rounds if you want to. But don't put dollar signs on them or
you're asking for trouble.
Ken Barr
<026f08e3-c14c-44bf...@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
oly <oly...@aol.com> wrote:
The first NORFED Liberty paper currency was issued in 1998,
with the first metallic coins following a year later.
http://www.chiefacoins.com/Database/Micro-Nations/Norfed.htm
for some detailed background and images.
--
Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Santa Clara, Apr 15-17 table 437 w/Mac's Coins
oly
> In article
> <026f08e3-c14c-44bf-91b9-53c9be8e5...@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ripping aside all the bullshittae, the whole scheme was to take $3.00
to $7.00 silver and convince the marks to pay $10 "face value" and
later, when the "margins got tight", to pay $20.00 "face value".
This was not a "barter community" nor was it particularly bright for
the buyers to pay $10 for $4 silver, or $20 for $11 silver. The
people who bought the rounds always overpaid in investment terms; they
could have gotten more silver for their money at anytime - even by
buying it from Frank. If the people who bought from Norfed were
helping to make a "political statement", well, that was their right,
but it was expensive.
The Liberty Dollar "distributers" who provided the perp with a mouthy
and appreciative audience presumably paid close to spot price for
their coins and pocketed the difference if they could later find a
mark to pay $10 or $20. If somebody brought one in to one of their
businesses "to spend", well, any competent retail person should have
had suffcient profit margins which made the coin worth accepting.
Others may say in 20-20 hindsight that the buyers did O.K., given that
silver is now $35+.
Unfortunately, had the buyers paid the correct market prices for
silver and not paid the silly "face values" on Liberty "Dollars", they
would presently have more physical silver and more profits.
Now, by their verbage and misrepresentations, the perps of this rather
small-timey scheme have gotten their titties in a big wringer.
You can misrepresent it as the Fed versus the American people, la, la
la, la la. You can represent it as a Libertarian wet dream crushed by
the fascist Corporate America. But it was actually just a small-time
attempt to sell cheap silver at high prices. A petitite con, a ruse.
Again, the DOJ now ought to try to rope in some of the more prominent
Liberty Diollar distributers, especially Dave Gillie of Michigan.
Happily, most of these round Liberty Dollars should hit the melting
pot now, given the high price of silver. The paper will remain as a
sort of monument - you sure can't do anything with it.
oly
František Baltiska
Check here
Bremick
"František Baltiska" <mai...@tuebingen.mpg.de> wrote in message
news:im9cb6$ort$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> You Americans think you are free and don't realise what is going on
>
> Check here
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&hl=de&v=jl2JQfxnnHU
Gee. All these years and I thought I was free. And I thought I knew what
was going on. Thanks so much for this authoritative youtube video that
removes all doubt.
oly
> "Franti ek Baltiska" <mai...@tuebingen.mpg.de> wrote in message
It's worth noting that probably 90%+ of the Germans who lived under
Hitler never had the first thought that they were living in a military
dictatorship. They thought they were free too.
The Hunkie-named sock-puppet could have a point.
oly
Bremick
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3ae7ec6a-31a4-44ff...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
________________
Yeah. He does sound like a real smart fella.
Richard L. Hall
$5.00 for most of the year.
http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/monthly_graphs.plx
So for a $1.00 FRN, you got title to a tenth of an ounce of silver worth
less than 50 cents. I wonder if he'd still redeem them today?
--
Richard
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them. (Albert Einstein)
"Little Ricky" <Littl...@newsvine.com> wrote in message
news:im6guk$moc$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
oly
wrote:
> These notes are series 2003. And in 2003, the price of silver was below
> $5.00 for most of the year.
>
> http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/monthly_graphs.plx
>
> So for a $1.00 FRN, you got title to a tenth of an ounce of silver worth
> less than 50 cents. I wonder if he'd still redeem them today?
>
> --
> Richard
> The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
> thinking we were at when we created them. (Albert Einstein)
>
>
> news:im6guk$moc$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>
>
> > The paper warehouse notes are nice as well.
>
> >http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss200/mskourtes/1Norfed2003PCGS66P...
>
> > "Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote in message
> >news:8ab297c1-8462-4b21...@x18g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> >> This was absolutely politically motivated. The Secret Service and the
> >> Mint declared the Liberty dollar stuff legal 20 years ago, since it
> >> was one of the MANY voluntary barter currencies in use, and the
> >> designs were totally unlike any US coins, past or present. But once
> >> the Liberty dollar people began to support Ron Paul, and started
> >> talking about honest money, auditing the Federal Reserve, pulling out
> >> the 1/2 million military troops we have in 150 foreign
>
> - Show quoted text -
Agreed. Exactly.
The Liberty Dollar scheme was nothing more than a small con,
attempting to sell the unwary cheap silver at a high price.
All the "political" and "envy" talk about the Fed and the banks was,
for the perp's part, the schtick and the spiel to take the mark's eye
off the fact that what they were being asked to do didn't make sense
financially.
It's entirely possible to hate the Federal Reserve and the "Too-Big-to-
Fail" Banks AND still pay the proper market price for silver.
oly
Jerry Dennis
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
He lost me completely after about three minutes. Any intelligent
discussion or debate doesn't need profanity to make the point. And
the comment about the young kids in the military proves to me (and
others here I'm sure) that Joe Rogan never served a day in his life,
but he seems to be an "expert."
Jerry
Gary
wrote:
> You Americans think you are free and don't realise what is going on
>
> Check here
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&hl=de&v=jl2JQfxnnHU
Very good video, Joe Rogan hits the nail on the head.