Censorship on the PCGS message boards

[Al]

I posted a message on the PCGS message board that I was haveing to make my
3rd quarter IRS tax deposits and for someone to post a coin with Hitler on
it because I feel like I am under the Nazi's. Why was this article
removed? I never received notice of this. How is it that this article can
be taken down and I also not given notice by the moderator? Is allowing
the PCGS staff to remove articles legal and wise?

"The courts have ruled that is unconstitutional, because it allows the
preferences and prejudices of an individual to make the decision."

If PCGS is going to remove an article without warning ,note or
justification then they must provide a way to identify those who performed
this function. That is to ensure that an accounting secures that no abuse
is done by "elements" hostile to the truth. They must also state in
writing the justification for the removal....not just because they don't
like the message or messenger. The only things that are illegal to write
is libel...other than that it is called censorship and a violation of our
1st Amendment Rights.

[Some Guy]

It's a privately run message board and they are free to set the rules of
conduct.
1st Amendment has nothing to do with it.


"Al" <justp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:j86m49$ta8$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Jason Burke]

You're joking, right? It's a *privately* run board. Please READ the
First Amendment.

[Bremick]

"Al" <justp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:j86m49$ta8$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

It's pretty obvious that your post was removed because you requested a
binary file and because of your spelling of "haveing". Best you should post
to an IRS message board and avoid having to spell haveing again.

[Al]

Jason Burke <jason...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:j86oal$ugu$1...@dont-email.me:

>
> You're joking, right? It's a *privately* run board. Please READ the
> First Amendment.
>

Nope...your wrong. Have proven it before with them and people like you.

No one can violate your inalienable rights...whether they be a "private "
person, private business or public.

What is it so hard for you people to understand that these are crimes
against a person.

For example : I don't have as a private person the right to take your life.
The pursuit of life life,liberty and happiness. Just in that same way that
I as a private person can't violate your rights neither can a
business,private or public.

Besides...did you not read this part?" because it allows the preferences

and prejudices of an individual to make the decision."

This is not objective but subjective,selective and discriminatory.

Now another thing that is illegal that I can't do is libel someone here.
For that they can remove a message..

Other than that...I wait to educate you(and if you are closed,others) to
the truth and empowerment.

[Bremick]

"Al" <justp...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:j86s2m$f15$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Jason Burke <jason...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:j86oal$ugu$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>
>>
>> You're joking, right? It's a *privately* run board. Please READ the
>> First Amendment.
>>
>
> Nope...your wrong. Have proven it before with them and people like you.
>
> No one can violate your inalienable rights...whether they be a "private "
> person, private business or public.

Do you believe you have an "inalienable right" to post whatever you choose
on the PCGS message board?"

>
> What is it so hard for you people to understand that these are crimes
> against a person.

When you posted that stuff, did you understand that the PCGS board moderator
reserved the right to delete content?

>
> For example : I don't have as a private person the right to take your
> life.
> The pursuit of life life,liberty and happiness. Just in that same way that
> I as a private person can't violate your rights neither can a
> business,private or public.

A "private" person? What might a "public" person be? I think you're
reading from a piece of script from another rant that got misplaced in your
PCGS pile.

>
> Besides...did you not read this part?" because it allows the preferences
> and prejudices of an individual to make the decision."

So you're saying that only YOU should make decisions? Ever notice how
Congress works?

>
> This is not objective but subjective,selective and discriminatory.

The PCGS moderator apparently thought your post was inappropriate and
removed it. You thought you were being cute and clever. They didn't. Big
deal. Get over it.

>
> Now another thing that is illegal that I can't do is libel someone here.
> For that they can remove a message..
>
> Other than that...I wait to educate you(and if you are closed,others) to
> the truth and empowerment.
>

Oh please spare us your wisdom.

[Gary]

It was pointed out that Nazi Germany had the lowest tax rate of all
Europe since
much of their food and raw materials were looted from invaded
countries, and
about 25% of its gross national product was the result of slave labor
by Jews and
other forced laborers.

Some of the Jewish coin dealers were not amused by the comparison of
paying
US taxes as being "just like the Nazis"

[Jason Burke]

Oh geez.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Golly, I don't see anything about PCGS in there. Heck, I don't even see
anything about a PRIVATELY run board being able to delete ANYTHING they
don't like.

But why don't you do this. Sue PCGS in federal court. See how far you get.

[Jud]

Just a couple of points.
1) Hitler NEVER appeared on any coins circulated in Germany
2) The 1st Amendment refers to GOVERNMENT censorship, not private.

Just sayin'

[Mike Benveniste]

On 10/25/2011 3:02 PM, Jason Burke wrote:

> Golly, I don't see anything about PCGS in there. Heck, I don't even see
> anything about a PRIVATELY run board being able to delete ANYTHING they
> don't like.
>
> But why don't you do this. Sue PCGS in federal court. See how far you get.

___________________________
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/ O O\__ feed |
/ \ the trolls |
/ \ \ |
/ _ \ \ ----------------------
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
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/ | | /| | --|
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* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
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--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain

[Nick Knight]

In <j86m49$ta8$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, on 10/25/2011

at 03:54 PM, Al <justp...@aol.com> said:

>I posted a message on the PCGS message board that I was haveing to make

Oh, brother. Why do people bring this disinteresting babble here? Anyone
care? No, I'm serious. Anyone?

Not me.

Nick

[Jerry Dennis]

On Oct 25, 1:36 pm, Al <justplai...@aol.com> wrote:
> Jason Burke <jason-bu...@comcast.net> wrote innews:j86oal$ugu$1...@dont-email.me:

The First Amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an

establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a
redress of grievances."

Any legitimate Constitutional scholar will tell you that past and
present Supreme Courts have bastardized this Amendment to he point
where it doesn't reflect what the founding fathers intended.

First and foremost, this applies to the government with respect to the
people.

Congress cannot establish a "Church of the United States," but the
ACLU bitches constantly that any other established religion cannot be
a part of government. If that's the case, no more prayers before
Congressional sessions or before the Supreme Court is seated to hear
cases. And does it violate the First Amendment when the President
closes his addresses to the nation with "God bless America."?

Freedom of speech was never intended to mean anything goes. The
intent was to allow the people to criticize the government without
fear of retaliation by the government. Burning the flag in protest,
sticking a Crucifix in a jar of urine and calling it art, or
protesting a military funeral will get you a severe ass-kicking in
some parts of the country, but not Washington, DC.

There doesn't seem to be much debate about the freedom of the press,
unless you happen to like Fox News and Barney Frank is raising hell
because he got caught in another lie. On another note, because of the
freedom of the press provision, it is illegal to charge sales tax on a
newspaper.

The right of the people to assemble peaceably doesn't cause much
trouble, but the recent "Occupy Wall Street" (or wherever) crowds are
pushing it. Some of what I've seen on CNN doesn't look to peaceful to
me.

Petitioning the government for redress of grievances is one freedom
that few in the world have. If we feel we've been wronged by the
government ffor any reason, we have the absolute right to demand an
explanation, and if we don't agree, we have the right to petition the
courts.

As for paying taxes, we all feel like we're paying too much. I'd like
to know who's in that 47% of America that doesn't pay any taxes. I
get nailed every quarter with self-employment taxes, and at the end of
the year with income taxes.

To summarize, PCGS is a private company and is not bound by the First
Amendment. Basically, it's their ball. If you want to play, you have
to play by their rules.

Jerry

[Nick Knight]

In <j86s2m$f15$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, on 10/25/2011

at 05:36 PM, Al <justp...@aol.com> said:

>Now another thing that is illegal that I can't do is libel someone here.
>For that they can remove a message..

And apparently PCGS can also remove a message merely if they want to.
Didn't they? Well then.

Nick

[Bremick]

"Nick Knight" <ni...@mr2ice.com> wrote in message
news:4ea771b3$1$avpx$mr2...@news.eternal-september.org...

Well, obviouslly YOU cared enough to take the time to post here asking
if anyone cares. And you apparently assume that we need to be told that you
don't. I suppose you didn't notice that it seems to have led to quite a few
responses from others here. And BTW, YOU may be disinterested, but don't
you mean "uninteresting" babble? Careful of those big words.

[Nick Knight]

In <j87sfb$9n4$1...@dont-email.me>, on 10/25/2011

at 10:49 PM, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> said:

>And BTW, YOU may be disinterested

Yeah, I saw you jumped right in, go figure. You should find a hobby. And
try participating in it, instead of in every possible thread ever posted.
If only they were mostly on-topic.

I really try to read your posts, honest. But each and every time I come
to the same conclusion. I'm very disinterested.

Let's do this one for 6 months. That'll get us through the holidays and
into spring, eh?

<plonk>

Nick

[Frank Provasek]

On Oct 25, 9:34 pm, Jerry Dennis <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> The First Amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an
> establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
> or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
> the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a
> redress of grievances."
>
> Any legitimate Constitutional scholar will tell you that past and
> present Supreme Courts have bastardized this Amendment to he point
> where it doesn't reflect what the founding fathers intended.
>
> First and foremost, this applies to the government with respect to the
> people.
>
> Congress cannot establish a "Church of the United States," but the
> ACLU bitches constantly that any other established religion cannot be
> a part of government.  If that's the case, no more prayers before
> Congressional sessions or before the Supreme Court is seated to hear
> cases.  And does it violate the First Amendment when the President
> closes his addresses to the nation with "God bless America."?
>

Here is the ACLU's expanation of the First Amendment and freedom of
religion

http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief

>
> Freedom of speech was never intended to mean anything goes.  The
> intent was to allow the people to criticize the government without
> fear of retaliation by the government.  Burning the flag in protest,
> sticking a Crucifix in a jar of urine and calling it art, or
> protesting a military funeral will get you a severe ass-kicking in
> some parts of the country, but not Washington, DC.
>
> There doesn't seem to be much debate about the freedom of the press,
> unless you happen to like Fox News and Barney Frank is raising hell
> because he got caught in another lie.  On another note, because of the
> freedom of the press provision, it is illegal to charge sales tax on a
> newspaper.
>

I am not aware of Barney Frank's lies, but Fox News went to
court...and WON...
the right to lie to its audience.

>
> Petitioning the government for redress of grievances is one freedom
> that few in the world have.  If we feel we've been wronged by the
> government ffor any reason, we have the absolute right to demand an
> explanation, and if we don't agree, we have the right to petition the
> courts.
>

It's actually pretty common worldwide now, but was started with three
English documents: the Magna Carta, the Petition of Right and the Bill
of Rights.

>
> As for paying taxes, we all feel like we're paying too much.  I'd like
> to know who's in that 47% of America that doesn't pay any taxes.  I
> get nailed every quarter with self-employment taxes, and at the end of
> the year with income taxes.
>

That's a meme intended to direct class resentment toward the poor,
propagated by such
millionaires as Limbaugh, Hannity, Murdoch, and of course, the GOP.
While the poor pay
no Federal INCOME taxes (the GOP used to promote exempting the working
poor from
most income tax as promotion of the family) they do pay TOTAL taxes
(sales taxes, property taxes,
(directly or indirectly) Social Security and Medicare taxes) in
percentages far higher than a millionaire does.

>
> To summarize, PCGS is a private company and is not bound by the First
> Amendment.  Basically, it's their ball.  If you want to play, you have
> to play by their rules.
>

> Jerry-

Well you got ONE thing correct...

[Bremick]

"Nick Knight" <ni...@mr2ice.com> wrote in message

news:4ea7839b$3$avpx$mr2...@news.eternal-september.org...

Ironic, your claim that I "jumped right in" here. Glad you, too, like to
jump in to another's thread with your predictable whining about your
disinterest. And I see you still feel compelled to announce your
<plonks>, rather than doing so privately, as if the subjects will be
devastated in public by the disapproval of someone of your stature. Here I
thought you already had announced my plonking several times in the past.
But now at least you won't have to suffer through any more of my future rcc
comments, even though none will be addressed to you.

[Frank Galikanokus]

"establishment of religion"

This means all religions. And some of us would like to be free from all religion.

However, a plea to no god in particular is allowed.

>
> Freedom of speech was never intended to mean anything goes. The
> intent was to allow the people to criticize the government without
> fear of retaliation by the government. Burning the flag in protest,
> sticking a Crucifix in a jar of urine and calling it art, or
> protesting a military funeral will get you a severe ass-kicking in
> some parts of the country, but not Washington, DC.

And giving someone a "severe ass-kicking" will get you arrested.

>
> There doesn't seem to be much debate about the freedom of the press,
> unless you happen to like Fox News and Barney Frank is raising hell
> because he got caught in another lie. On another note, because of the
> freedom of the press provision, it is illegal to charge sales tax on a
> newspaper.
>
> The right of the people to assemble peaceably doesn't cause much
> trouble, but the recent "Occupy Wall Street" (or wherever) crowds are
> pushing it. Some of what I've seen on CNN doesn't look to peaceful to
> me.

If this was happening in another country you would call them freedom fighters.

>
> Petitioning the government for redress of grievances is one freedom
> that few in the world have. If we feel we've been wronged by the
> government ffor any reason, we have the absolute right to demand an
> explanation, and if we don't agree, we have the right to petition the
> courts.
>
> As for paying taxes, we all feel like we're paying too much. I'd like
> to know who's in that 47% of America that doesn't pay any taxes. I
> get nailed every quarter with self-employment taxes, and at the end of
> the year with income taxes.

Actually 50% of that 47% make less than $20K/year. And that is just federal income tax,
the number does not include state, local, gas and sales taxes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/chart-of-the-day-the-47-percent-pay-their-fair-share.php
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/chart-of-the-day-these-are-the-47-percent.php

BTW the "job creators" do not pay income tax. They pay capital gains tax. Now you know why
they lobby to reduce capital gains tax.

I pay 25% of my income in federal, state and local taxes. I pay my fair share, how about
you.

JAM

[Reid Goldsborough]

On 10/25/2011 11:47 PM, Nick Knight wrote:
> Yeah, I saw you jumped right in, go figure.

Some people feel others are eagerly awaiting their every observation,
every opinion, every utterance. Not me. Never. You see it even more on
Facebook, Twitter, blogs. The guy who started this thread is another
Internet lawyerbe. It's our inalienable right to go into anybody's store
and speak our mind as loud as we want. I'm all for the First Amendment.
He's talking about the Twenty-Eighth Amendment. Say, what's with the one
quotation mark after your name? You always struck me as fully real.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

[Nick Knight]

In <5469da....@news.alt.net>, on 10/26/2011

at 02:34 PM, Reid Goldsborough <reidgol...@yahoo.com> said:

>On 10/25/2011 11:47 PM, Nick Knight wrote:
>> Yeah, I saw you jumped right in, go figure.

>Some people feel others are eagerly awaiting their every observation

Yeah, that's it exactly. I realized when, for the upteenth time, I
killfiled Bruce ... this time until 6/15 of next year, what the issue is.
I've got 2 people I work with that will talk forever about anything. And
it's sometimes impossible to get away once trapped. It's almost as if I
feel rude if I say "hey, I have to go". But if I don't say that, who
knows when it will end. And the net value of what is said? Well, there
may be some, but it isn't a good investment of time. This is exactly what
I, personally, seem to constantly experience with Bruce. It's much
easier to say "hey, I gotta go" here, and much much easier to say it in
truthful terms: You bore the shit out of me.

The original thread did, sort of, start out with a coin theme. And I was
predicting the traffic he would generate when I did my own reply.
Apparently Bruce was somehow offended ... not sure exactly why. I did
ask, and I quote "Anyone care?". I didn't realize it was yet-another case
for him to reply to someone. Silly me. And, in hindsight, I should have
predicted that the urge to reply would have set in to my own post.
Whatever. I continue to be disinterested.

Yeah, I'm a hypocrite, as I've now babbled off-topic. I'll invoke the
rule that says that talking about the mechanics and business of the
newsgroup itself is always allowed. It's a stretch, but I leave this
thread alone and watch for more meaningful posts now.

Thanks for the reply.

Nick

[Bremick]

"Nick Knight" <ni...@mr2ice.com> wrote in message

news:4ea8967c$4$avpx$mr2...@news.eternal-september.org...

> In <5469da....@news.alt.net>, on 10/26/2011
> at 02:34 PM, Reid Goldsborough <reidgol...@yahoo.com> said:
>
>>On 10/25/2011 11:47 PM, Nick Knight wrote:
>>> Yeah, I saw you jumped right in, go figure.
>
>>Some people feel others are eagerly awaiting their every observation
>
> Yeah, that's it exactly. I realized when, for the upteenth time, I
> killfiled Bruce ... this time until 6/15 of next year, what the issue is.
> I've got 2 people I work with that will talk forever about anything. And
> it's sometimes impossible to get away once trapped. It's almost as if I
> feel rude if I say "hey, I have to go". But if I don't say that, who
> knows when it will end. And the net value of what is said? Well, there
> may be some, but it isn't a good investment of time. This is exactly what
> I, personally, seem to constantly experience with Bruce. It's much
> easier to say "hey, I gotta go" here, and much much easier to say it in
> truthful terms: You bore the shit out of me.

Funny, I never posted anything meant to keep you amused. You jumped into
this thread saying how annoyed you were with it. Who cares? What have you
offered here substantively lately?

>
> The original thread did, sort of, start out with a coin theme. And I was
> predicting the traffic he would generate when I did my own reply.
> Apparently Bruce was somehow offended ... not sure exactly why. I did
> ask, and I quote "Anyone care?". I didn't realize it was yet-another case
> for him to reply to someone. Silly me. And, in hindsight, I should have
> predicted that the urge to reply would have set in to my own post.
> Whatever. I continue to be disinterested.

I guess by now you know that nobody did care but you. At least not enough
to say so here. You're fun to goad sometimes, knowing you'll pull out the
old killfile announcement. You're so predictable it's almost comical.

[Jerry Dennis]

On Oct 26, 10:22 am, Frank Galikanokus <FrankGalikano...@nospam.net>
wrote, in part

> And giving someone a "severe ass-kicking" will get you arrested.

True, but any speech or act that could likely cause a riot is still
illegal.

> Actually 50% of that 47% make less than $20K/year. And that is just federal income tax,
> the number does not include state, local, gas and sales taxes.
>

> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.htmlhttp://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/chart-of-the-day-the-47-pe...http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/chart-of-the-day-these-are...

>
> BTW the "job creators" do not pay income tax. They pay capital gains tax. Now you know why
> they lobby to reduce capital gains tax.

Agree, but if we bought a coin worth $1,000 back in 1970, and decide
to sell it now, and make $9,000, does that entitle the government to a
cut of the profit when they assumed none of the risk?

> I pay 25% of my income in federal, state and local taxes. I pay my fair share, how about
> you.

I can safely say I pay at least 25% between Federal and State income,
self employment, property and school taxes. Throw in all the hidden
taxes like excise taxes, gasoline taxes, cigarette taxes, sales taxes
and the like and we're both well over that 25%.

Jerry

[ImperialCoins]

On Oct 27, 2:13 am, Jerry Dennis <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 10:22 am, Frank Galikanokus <FrankGalikano...@nospam.net>
> wrote, in part
>
> > And giving someone a "severe ass-kicking" will get you arrested.
>
> True, but any speech or act that could likely cause a riot is still
> illegal.
>
> > Actually 50% of that 47% make less than $20K/year. And that is just federal income tax,
> > the number does not include state, local, gas and sales taxes.
>

> >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.htmlht......

>
> > BTW the "job creators" do not pay income tax. They pay capital gains tax. Now you know why
> > they lobby to reduce capital gains tax.
>
> Agree, but if we bought a coin worth $1,000 back in 1970, and decide
> to sell it now, and make $9,000, does that entitle the government to a
> cut of the profit when they assumed none of the risk?
>

Um... Yes, you are legally supposed to pay taxes on the $8,000
profit. If you dont have proof that it cost you $1,000 then you may
have to pay taxes on the entire $9,000. Now you are probably legally
required to send the person that you sold the coin to a 1099 tax form
at the end of the year.

Alfred

[CoinHELP!]

I was banned from Collector's Universe Message Board as well. I spoke
out against their fees for photographing coins at shows, and on their
Plus grading system. I thought I could since they allowed people to
trash ebay on their fees and call them Feebay.

I emailed them multiple times and apologized for my posts, they
deleted, but it fell on deaf ears. I own and operate a coin forum of
my own and would give a person a second chance. I am not upset, but we
all sometimes spurously speak out on subjects we feel strongly about.

It's part of being American, and a warning would have sufficed in my
case.

[Coinkid]

PCGS just poofed a 5000+ post dicussion of the 25th anniversery American
eagle 5 coin sets.
Such an important archive of information gone forever, and it shows that Don
Willis and PCGS
have zero respect for there customers opinions.

"CoinHELP!" <danield...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4fc49cd9-ae2d-4cb1...@s2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...