Pennies add up to abortion message -- Church fills glass house with symbolic protest
Arizona Coin Collector
On the story below, the photo image link below shows the
building holding the pennies. It looks like the glass
pannels are about to pop out from the weight of the
pennies.
---------------------------------------------------
FROM:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/07/pennies-add-up-to-abortion-message/
Pennies add up to abortion message
Church fills glass house with symbolic protest
Associated Press
Sunday, December 7, 2008
JACKSON -- There's a half million dollars sitting on
the corner of Mississippi and President streets in
Jackson, but no one could possibly steal it.
(NEWS STORY PHOTO IMAGE OF PENNIES)
http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2008/12/06/7abortion.jpeg
That's because the cash is in the form of pennies --
50 million of them -- that collectively weigh 156 tons.
The coins, which fill a glass house outside of the
Mississippi Baptist Convention building, provide a
visual reminder of the number of abortions performed
in the United States since the Roe vs. Wade
decision in 1973.
"We just needed something to memorialize and help
people see the magnitude of abortion over the last
several decades," said Rev. Jimmy Porter, executive
director of the Mississippi Baptist Convention's
Christian Action Commission.
Called the "Memorial to the Missing," the penny-filled
structure is a project of the Mississippi Baptist
Convention, which set out more than two years ago to
collect one penny for each child who would have been
born were it not for legal abortion.
Now that the convention reached its goal of collecting
50 million pennies, it plans to invest the money in a
fund dedicated to anti-abortion causes.
"I think it's been real effective," said Rev. Clarence
Cooper, who was president of the convention when the
memorial was erected on Mother's Day weekend in 2006,
"especially to those who have taken the time to read
the large plaque that is there."
The plaque says the coins not only represent aborted
babies but "the difficult process of decision-making,
fear and loneliness" involved with abortion. It asks
passersby to "stop, pray, consider what we are doing
as a nation, ask God to forgive us, seek ways to help
those who are struggling with the decision and look
to the Lord to restore each of us."
Convention spokesman William Perkins said people often
stop at the container to pray and insert their own
coins into the structure's penny slot.
"There are a number of stories we've heard about
grandparents who walk by and saw it and read the
plaque and dug in their pockets and put pennies in
the memorial for grandchildren who have been aborted,"
he said. "It's been an interesting couple of years."
Meanwhile, continued contributions can be made to
the Mississippi Baptist Christian Action Commission.
Removing the pennies from the container will be no
easy feat.
"It will be interesting to see how that's done,"
Perkins said. "There's no clear-cut way to do that."
The coins are piled 6 feet deep in the 13-by-7 glass
house. The structure weighs more than 300,000 pounds,
or the equivalent of 100 sedans stacked on top of
each other.
The container is made of steel and bulletproof glass
and is reinforced by five concrete pilings buried 14
feet into the ground. The first batch of 20 million
pennies were poured into the container when the
memorial was dedicated in 2006.
Members of the state's 2,100 Mississippi Baptist
Convention-affiliated churches contributed most of
the coins that fill the glass house.
..
Lorrie S.
dumpsters everywhere. The do-gooders that complain about it would never
take on the responsibility of raising abandoned children. They are
self-righteous sacks of shit that try and impose their sorry beliefs on
everyone.
"Arizona Coin Collector" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:-cednbeqB8CzQKbU...@earthlink.com...
j-rod
It's sad these half wits have nothing better to do with their time.
JAM
Roger Hunt
Coin Collector <nos...@nospam.com> writes
>Hello
>
>On the story below, the photo image link below shows the
>building holding the pennies. It looks like the glass
>pannels are about to pop out from the weight of the
>pennies.
>
>http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/07/pennies-add-up-to-abortion-
>message/
>
>(NEWS STORY PHOTO IMAGE OF PENNIES)
>http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2008/12/06/7abortion.jp
>eg
>
and varieties?
--
Roger Hunt
som...@some.domain
>
>
more control freak hate propoganda. roe vs wade is the law to keep women safe
and healthy. the no choicers give the u.s a black eye overseas.
Arizona Coin Collector
"Roger Hunt" <nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:oAp$VKAhNA...@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>>
>>FROM:
>>http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/07/pennies-add-up-to-abortion-
>>message/
>>
>>(NEWS STORY PHOTO IMAGE OF PENNIES)
>>http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2008/12/06/7abortion.jp
>>eg
>>
> How long would it take for an individual to check that lot for rarities
> and varieties?
> --
> Roger Hunt
Hello
I was thinking how many "wheat pennies" would be in that
mass of coins? What is the possibility of any 1974
aluminum pennies in that mass of coins? I would exchange
a dollars worth of pennies for any of these coins.
I wonder if they took the time to check out ever penny before
placing them in this structure?
Roger Hunt
Coin Collector <nos...@nospam.com> writes
>"Roger Hunt" <nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:oAp$VKAhNA...@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>>>
>>>FROM:
>>>http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/dec/07/pennies-add-up-to-abortion-
>>>message/
>>>
>>>(NEWS STORY PHOTO IMAGE OF PENNIES)
>>>http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2008/12/06/7abortion.
>jp
>>>eg
>>>
>> How long would it take for an individual to check that lot for rarities
>> and varieties?
>
>mass of coins? What is the possibility of any 1974
>aluminum pennies in that mass of coins? I would exchange
>a dollars worth of pennies for any of these coins.
>
>I wonder if they took the time to check out ever penny before
>placing them in this structure?
>
contents of the collection plate for interesting coins?
--
Roger Hunt
Brian Oakley
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:SwT_k.311407$1p1....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
Maybe you should do more research. A lot of women are damaged physically,
and some die of complications. Hardly safe and healthy. The emotional scars
are just as bad. Ask any woman thats had an abortion.
www.focusonthefamily.com will have lots of stats if you genuinely care to do
some honest intelectual study on the subject. If you just want to spout
your hate for the pro life movement, dont bother. Been there done that, got
a tee shirt for ya. What you call control freak propaganda is for saving
lives, and is much more based in facts than what you wish to think.
B
Isti Mirant Stella
>> more control freak hate propoganda. roe vs wade is the law to keep
>> women safe
>> and healthy. the no choicers give the u.s a black eye overseas.
>
> Maybe you should do more research. A lot of women are damaged
> physically, and some die of complications. Hardly safe and healthy.
> The emotional scars are just as bad. Ask any woman thats had an
> abortion. www.focusonthefamily.com will have lots of stats if you
> genuinely care to do some honest intelectual study on the subject. If you
> just want to spout your hate for the pro life movement, dont
> bother. Been there done that, got a tee shirt for ya. What you call
> control freak propaganda is for saving lives, and is much more based
> in facts than what you wish to think. B
Hey, I have an idea; if you are opposed to abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE.
Beyond that, kindly refrain from attempting to run other people's lives.
note.boy
A friend's wife is involved with a church and she checks the donation notes
for replacements, another friend who knows someone who works in a post
office who checks for replacements and error notes and they are very
successful. Billy
som...@some.domain
all abortions. i beleive women have the right to decide. individually. i want
them full access to ALL information and factors equally to alloe them an
intelligent choice.
i know this isn't a perfect world but i hate draconian laws.
som...@some.domain
Isti Mirant Stella
Me, too. Brian's list of "consequences" of abortion could just as easily
apply to women who have given birth against their will. I do not question
the data cited by Focus on the Family, but they leave out a number of
pertinent data, which I will cite if this thread goes on too much longer.
In any event, I have yet to meet anyone who is "pro" abortion. Brian isn't,
you are not, I am not. It is extremely unlikely that even those women who
have had one or more are "pro", especially as it applies to others.
som...@some.domain
countrie's ideas. (hey china....wtf?)
i also believe we need more intelligent birth control. but too often religion
gets in and the ruins everything by adding emotionalism. there are too many
rats in the cage and we have to face it. as americans especially.
"population explosion, def: an even that started 20 years ago that everyone
says will happen in 20 years."
-john brunner, 1969.
you discuss intelligently. got a sister? (g)
Aladdin Sane
news:COX_k.3206$uS1....@newsfe19.iad...
>
> Maybe you should do more research. A lot of women are damaged physically,
> and some die of complications. Hardly safe and healthy. The emotional
> scars are just as bad. Ask any woman thats had an abortion.
> www.focusonthefamily.com will have lots of stats if you genuinely care to
> do some honest intelectual study on the subject. If you just want to
> spout your hate for the pro life movement, dont bother. Been there done
> that, got a tee shirt for ya. What you call control freak propaganda is
> for saving lives, and is much more based in facts than what you wish to
> think.
> B
Spoken like a true believer, who, once the child is born, will abandon it to
poverty, cut medical and hunger funds, and blame the child for the "sins" of
the parents. Why are republicans so keen to get government out of the
public realm of banks and stocks and into the private realm of bedrooms?
--
*
/?\
/___\
-O=O-
^
AS & His Magic Hat
A conclusion is simply the place
where you decided to stop thinking.
Isti Mirant Stella
> "Brian Oakley" <brian....@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:COX_k.3206$uS1....@newsfe19.iad...
>>
>
>> Maybe you should do more research. A lot of women are damaged
>> physically, and some die of complications. Hardly safe and healthy.
>> The emotional scars are just as bad. Ask any woman thats had an
>> abortion. www.focusonthefamily.com will have lots of stats if you
>> genuinely care to do some honest intelectual study on the subject. If you
>> just want to spout your hate for the pro life movement, dont
>> bother. Been there done that, got a tee shirt for ya. What you call
>> control freak propaganda is for saving lives, and is much more based
>> in facts than what you wish to think.
>> B
>
> Spoken like a true believer, who, once the child is born, will
> abandon it to poverty, cut medical and hunger funds, and blame the
> child for the "sins" of the parents. Why are republicans so keen to
> get government out of the public realm of banks and stocks and into
> the private realm of bedrooms?
What Focus on the Family fails to point out is that the majority of
abortions are performed on young, unwed mothers (read welfare recipients),
and the majority of those are black and brown people. Some 48 million
abortions have been performed since Roe. Had those fetuses been carried to
term, the population of the U.S. would be 48 million greater than it
actually is today. Oh wait, I forgot to add in the offspring of the first
fifteen years or so of those, which would likely increase the total to well
over 65 million, even by conservative guesses, and the unaborted fetuses of
1973 could well be grandparents by now. Yes, agreed, abortion is an ugly
thing, but from a pragmatic point of view, what infrastructure has been put
in place, financially supported at least partially by the pro-life
contingent, that could deal with that magnitude of an increase in
population, again mostly on welfare? For example, does Focus on the Family
take any substantial number of these unwanted children under its wing and
nurture them through to adulthood, thereby giving them at least a minimal
chance at the pursuit of happiness? If it can be shown that an adequate
infrastructure is already in place, then the argument of the pro-life
contingent gains respectability. Brian?
som...@some.domain
>"Brian Oakley" <brian....@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:COX_k.3206$uS1....@newsfe19.iad...
>>
>
>> Maybe you should do more research. A lot of women are damaged physically,
>> and some die of complications. Hardly safe and healthy. The emotional
>> scars are just as bad. Ask any woman thats had an abortion.
>> www.focusonthefamily.com will have lots of stats if you genuinely care to
>> do some honest intelectual study on the subject. If you just want to
>> spout your hate for the pro life movement, dont bother. Been there done
>> that, got a tee shirt for ya. What you call control freak propaganda is
>> for saving lives, and is much more based in facts than what you wish to
>> think.
>> B
>
>Spoken like a true believer, who, once the child is born, will abandon it to
>poverty, cut medical and hunger funds, and blame the child for the "sins" of
>the parents. Why are republicans so keen to get government out of the
>public realm of banks and stocks and into the private realm of bedrooms?
>
you certainly hit the hammer on the nail, or whatever.
PC
> What you call control freak propaganda is for saving
> lives,
Bombing abortion clinics saves lives?
som...@some.domain
Roger Hunt
som...@some.domain writes
Pure coincidence too that the first village lies above the mineral
deposits.
--
Roger Hunt
som...@some.domain
or was the neofacist petrol industry.
i forget the jargon.
Roger Hunt
som...@some.domain writes
>In article <o4p$biAjHY...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, Roger Hunt
><nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <uhf%k.322557$4p1....@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com>,
>>som...@some.domain writes
>>>In article <a8835742-e4a2-459a...@20g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>>PC <Super...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Dec 7, 4:08=A0pm, "Brian Oakley" <brian.oak...@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What you call control freak propaganda is for saving
>>>>> lives,
>>>>
>>>>Bombing abortion clinics saves lives?
>>>we have to destroy this village to save this village.
>>
>>Pure coincidence too that the first village lies above the mineral
>>deposits.
>it was oil in vietnam. remeber, we were tools of the capatalistic pig oilmen.
>or was the neofacist petrol industry.
>i forget the jargon.
D'you know - a couple of weeks ago I re-discovered my copy of Chairman
Maos Little Red Book, that the Peoples Republic London embassy kindly
sent me in 1970-ish.
I'm sure there's loads and loads of first-generation jargon in there.
--
Roger Hunt
som...@some.domain
Roger Hunt
I was a little young for the Sixties Scene so didn't experience it
personally, and can't remember the Seventies, so I can't help you, much
as I'd like to, Man.
--
Roger Hunt
Lorrie S.
interest in actually taking on the responsibility of raising the abandoned
child that they have "saved" from abortion. Out of sight, out of mind.
Clowns like Oakley would then be directly responsible for the dead baby
found in a dumpster because the 12 year old that got raped by her father
couldn't abort the child that her dad proudly sired.
Abortion is a good thing. Otherwise you'd
have fetuses in garbage cans and
dumpsters everywhere. The do-gooders that complain about it would never
take on the responsibility of raising abandoned children. They are
self-righteous sacks of shit that try and impose their sorry beliefs on
everyone.
"Brian Oakley" <brian....@charter.net> wrote in message
news:COX_k.3206$uS1....@newsfe19.iad...
Lorrie S.
but i hate draconian laws.
The Founders hated them too, which is why these religious fanatics are the
enemies of democracy.
Lorrie S.
as an excuse to outlaw
> all abortions. i beleive women have the right to decide.
Actually, there is a disturbing hidden agenda that has a twisted kink to it.
These church leaders are repressed perverts and the only way for them to get
their secret kink on is to imagine young girls carrying their daddy's rape
child to term. If all abortions are outlawed, then all this stuff stays at
home, allowing them to exert supreme control over "daddy's harem".
Lorrie S.
news:ghhkt...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Me, too. Brian's list of "consequences" of abortion could just as easily
apply to women who have given birth against their will.
Right, like little Janey that was forced to give birth to the nigger drug
dealer that raped her. Do you think GWB would allow one of his daughters to
carry such an abomination to term? But he would force Joe Citizen's
daughter to carry it to full term if it was within his power. It isn't
difficult to see through the Christian right's perverted hidden agenda of
making every man's home his "castle fortress" complete with prison bars to
keep the "family harem" as child bearing sex slaves.
Isti Mirant Stella
> What Oakley fails to mention is that fools like himself have
> absolutely no interest in actually taking on the responsibility of
> raising the abandoned child that they have "saved" from abortion.
> Out of sight, out of mind. Clowns like Oakley would then be directly
> responsible for the dead baby found in a dumpster because the 12 year
> old that got raped by her father couldn't abort the child that her
> dad proudly sired.
>
> Abortion is a good thing. Otherwise
> you'd have fetuses in garbage cans and
> dumpsters everywhere. The do-gooders that complain about it would
> never take on the responsibility of raising abandoned children. They
> are self-righteous sacks of shit that try and impose their sorry
> beliefs on everyone.
I wouldn't have phrased it quite that way, nor, as an adoptive father, can I
ever agree that abortion is a good thing. But you do raise some of the same
points that I raised a couple of days ago, and which, it should be noted,
Mr. Oakley has so far failed to address.
Lorrie S.
so keen to get government out of the public realm of banks and stocks and
into the private realm of bedrooms?
Because they have a secret hidden kinko agenda going on. You can read about
it in my other posts. God only plays a part in it on Sunday. For the other
six days, they try to rack up as much sin as possible, so it can all be
forgiven during next Sunday's "confession". It's cyclical.
Isti Mirant Stella
I'm still a strong believer in the idea that I can use my own religious
notions and interpretations of Scripture, such as they are, to run my own
life. I would never in a million years consider using them to run someone
else's life. Unfortunately, I way too often bump into people who want to
use their notions and interpretations to run mine, often coupled with using
the State to make sure that I comply with their views.
Brian Oakley
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:0xY_k.383893$vK2.3...@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
Murder is not draconian? Did it ever occur to anyone that that "blob" of
tissue has its own dna? And it is human DNA.
B
Brian Oakley
to defend their own sin, insted of lining up thier lives with what Scripture
says.
B
Brian Oakley
children and their habitats. The Church, which unfortunately is woefully
lacking in their responsibility in doing the same, is still better than the
government ever will be. You can either give the responsibility to the
people, or pawn off the responsibility on the government. But when the
people arent raised to be givers, but takers, then they dont help, and they
elect government officials that just reflect the same selfishness.
B
Brian Oakley
most folks on this ng have done for them. Why dont you give them a call and
ask them to give you a brief synopsis of their contribution to the children
of this country, and this world. The "statistics" you purport dont really
make sense. If those children had not been aborted, the infrastructure to
take care of them would be much better. There is a group of baby boomers
coming into retirement soon. The younger generation is much smaller because
of abortions and a baby boomer wont have near as much of an infrastructure
to depend on as they would have if the population of aborties had been
allowed to live and contribute to society. Our economy would have been
stronger with these unwanted babies just by their contribution. The plague
of abortion is indeed seem much more among minorities, but not that much
more. And again, you cant simply assume that those unwanted babies would
just be on welfare. Thats the myth that keeps people, especially
minorities, from striving to achieve properity, and keeps them dependent on
the government. This is America. Anyone can achieve anything they are
willing to work for.
B
Brian Oakley
"PC" <Super...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a8835742-e4a2-459a...@20g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
I dont see a connection between bombings and propaganda. Please stay on
topic and be coherent. Thanks.
B
som...@some.domain
yeah, religion is better...at making hypocrisy and bullshit.
religion has NO PLACE in the abortion rights of women.
keep your brain dead mythology out of my life.
Brian Oakley
your inevitable reply.
As an adoptive father, you SHOULD know that there are MANY MANY people
looking to adopt children. They are even going overseas to adopt orphans.
I dont see any truth in the statement that there is noone that would want to
take responsibility for children that are given up for adoption. There are
MANY people in my particular church that have adopted multiple children, and
more in the process of doing so, one adoption which should be closed on the
12th of this month. As for my trying to impose my beliefs on someone, I
think others in this country have beat me to the punch. Thats why our
country, our government, our economy, and our society are in such great
shape today.
Merry Christmas,
B
Brian Oakley
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:slG%k.40$Rp...@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
in the church. I agree. Religion has no place anywhere. God, however,
does.
Merry Christmas.
B
PC
>
> insted of lining up thier lives with what Scripture says.
Thou shalt pontificate in a coin forum?
PC
>
> The younger generation is much smaller because of abortions
Much? What does that mean?
I call B.S. Show some proof or drop this silly claim.
PC
Encouraging others to bomb abortion clinics is not spreading propaganda?
Bruce Remick
Big deal. And before they heard about DNA, I suppose it was the soul. It's
always something. Worry about your own life and the rest of society will
deal with their own burdens.
Lorrie S.
Scripture up
> to defend their own sin, insted of lining up thier lives with what
Scripture
> says.
Why would a rational thinker want to "line their life up" with what is
written in fairy tales that were concocted by religious leaders of 2,000
years ago to dupe the public into giving them power over their minds and
their worldly goods?
Lorrie S.
And it is human DNA.
You should also be protecting chimpanzees from abortion, since 98% of their
DNA is identical to that of humans.
Brian Oakley
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:CPG%k.13549$4f3....@newsfe14.iad...
But what I do affects others around me, and viseversa. No man is an island.
So my trying to persuade people not to abort their babies influences my life
as well as theirs, oh, and the babys too. That soon to be aborted baby
might just be the next doctor to cure what ails you in your old age. So to
say that its not our business to advocate life is not very wise.
B
Brian Oakley
"PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
news:ghndg3$ki$1...@news.motzarella.org...
It might be encitement, but I dont think it would be defined as propaganda.
B
Isti Mirant Stella
> "Isti Mirant Stella" <lo...@bayeux.fr> wrote in message
> news:ghmd1...@enews1.newsguy.com...
>> Lorrie S. wrote:
>>> What Oakley fails to mention is that fools like himself have
>>> absolutely no interest in actually taking on the responsibility of
>>> raising the abandoned child that they have "saved" from abortion.
>>> Out of sight, out of mind. Clowns like Oakley would then be directly
>>> responsible for the dead baby found in a dumpster because the 12
>>> year old that got raped by her father couldn't abort the child that
>>> her dad proudly sired.
>>>
>>> Abortion is a good thing. Otherwise
>>> you'd have fetuses in garbage cans and
>>> dumpsters everywhere. The do-gooders that complain about it would
>>> never take on the responsibility of raising abandoned children. They are
>>> self-righteous sacks of shit that try and impose their
>>> sorry beliefs on everyone.
>>
>> I wouldn't have phrased it quite that way, nor, as an adoptive
>> father, can I ever agree that abortion is a good thing. But you do
>> raise some of the same points that I raised a couple of days ago,
>> and which, it should be noted, Mr. Oakley has so far failed to
>> address.
> Not sure what points you raised. Maybe you can find them and put them
> into your inevitable reply.
OK, here's one, and I quote:
I asked: "For example, does Focus on the
> Family take any substantial number of these unwanted children under its
> wing and nurture them through to adulthood, thereby giving them at least a
> minimal chance at the pursuit of happiness? If it can be shown that an
> adequate infrastructure is already in place, then the argument of the
> pro-life contingent gains respectability. Brian?"
You responded: "Why dont you give them a call and
ask them to give you a brief synopsis of their contribution to the children
of this country, and this world."
When I ask a direct question, I expect a direct answer. You did not provide
one.
By the way, I love God. In all the times I've seen James Dobson on teevee,
I have never, ever heard him utter those words, so you may understand my
reluctance to become involved. Or do I have to send him money before he
will say it?
Come to think of it, in all the times you have posted to rcc, I have never
seen those words issue from your keyboard, either. What's your position on
that? Direct answer, if you please, no obfuscation. Yea or nay?
> As an adoptive father, you SHOULD know that there are MANY MANY people
> looking to adopt children. They are even going overseas to adopt
> orphans. I dont see any truth in the statement that there is noone
> that would want to take responsibility for children that are given up
> for adoption. There are MANY people in my particular church that
> have adopted multiple children, and more in the process of doing so,
> one adoption which should be closed on the 12th of this month. As
> for my trying to impose my beliefs on someone, I think others in this
> country have beat me to the punch. Thats why our country, our
> government, our economy, and our society are in such great shape
> today. Merry Christmas,
> B
When we adopted, it was am extremely difficult task. Many adoption agencies
were little more than front offices for extortionists (we can place a child
with you for $10,000 up front fee, never mind that was close to twice my
annual salary at the time). Things could very well have changed in 40
years. That's why I asked.
Today, there are approximately 1,000,000 abortions performed annually in the
U.S. Let's imagine the overturn of Roe for a moment. That number would
decrease dramatically, but not to anywhere near zero. I'll just take a
guess: a reduction by half. Where, then, is the infrastructure to handle
500,000 unwanted babies? In your church? If so, God bless your fellow
congregants! But if not, there must be a mechanism already in place to see
that these children get the help they need from birth, not after several
years of wrangling as to how to set the mechanism up. All I'm really asking
here is that, before you press for the overturn of Roe, you take an active
role in setting up that mechanism and infrastructure. Then everybody wins,
most importantly the kids.
Brian Oakley
because you, after all are of superior intelect because you post such
poignant replies, extrapolate that number into how many more people would be
alive in the US if 40+ million had not been aborted since RvW and today.
Ill leave the math to you.
B
Brian Oakley
here, but this is still America, at least where Im at. I believe my post is
still on topic as far as this thread is concerned. If you have a problem
with that, maybe views opposed to my own ought to also refrain from
extending their opinions, and simply stick to the topic of coins, and not
pontificate about what people choose to DO with their spare change.
Merry Christmas.
B
Isti Mirant Stella
>> soul. It's always something. Worry about your own life and the rest
>> of society will deal with their own burdens.
>
> But what I do affects others around me, and viseversa. No man is an
> island. So my trying to persuade people not to abort their babies
> influences my life as well as theirs, oh, and the babys too. That
> soon to be aborted baby might just be the next doctor to cure what
> ails you in your old age. So to say that its not our business to
> advocate life is not very wise. B
That's a good tack to take. I'm all for life. Quality life, from birth to
death. For the first time in history, we have the means to bring that about
on a large scale. I like the idea of doing what one can to persuade against
the practice of abortion, but not through intimidation with Bible verses,
"Signal 30" type graphics, or legislation.
Isti Mirant Stella
Here's one estimate, no math necessary:
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html
But the questions continue to nag: Where would all those people be today?
What would they be? What would be their quality of life?
Bruce Remick
What you are attempting to do to persuade others who don't share your
opinion is unwelcome. Others will agonize on their own over the decisions
they're faced with. You've never had to walk in their shoes. Go pray for
them if you must, but otherwise stay out of their lives if all you can offer
are your personal religious convictions. That soon to be aborted baby is
just as likely to be the next Adolph Hitler or Jeffrey Dahmer. Your
agrument won't wash.
Bruce Remick
So imagine the state of the world if, since R vs W, there were no abortions,
traffic deaths, and if fatal diseases had been conquered. The world
population would have tripled. Just what we need. Fortunately, it looks
like God has a way of keeping things in check.
Isti Mirant Stella
I try my best to be optimistic about things, but, onsidering the likely
socioeconomic status of those unwanted kids, the negative outcome you
describe is ever so much more likely.
PC
Right, the rationale they use in the act of encouraging others to bomb an
abortion clinic is often propaganda. Pretty cut and dry when a definition
is involved. You can't weasel out of it. Sorry.
PC
>
> "PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
> news:ghnd8h$uli$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "Brian Oakley" <brian....@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:0jG%k.19395$yB4....@newsfe07.iad...
>>>
>>
>>
>>> The younger generation is much smaller because of abortions
>>
>> Much? What does that mean?
>>
>> I call B.S. Show some proof or drop this silly claim.
>>
>>
> Well, asuming you know how many babies have been aborted, and Im sure you
> do
dodge #1
> because you, after all are of superior intelect because you post such
> poignant replies,
personal attack #1
> extrapolate that number into how many more people would be alive in the US
> if 40+ million had not been aborted since RvW and today. Ill leave the
> math to you.
dodge #2
> B
It figures.
PC
You didn't get it. I am not surprised.
> Merry Christmas.
> B
PC
>
> So imagine the state of the world if, since R vs W, there were no
> abortions, traffic deaths, and if fatal diseases had been conquered. The
> world population would have tripled. Just what we need. Fortunately, it
> looks like God has a way of keeping things in check.
>
That extra population density is probably just what would be needed for the
most vicious pandemic one could ever imagine.
som...@some.domain
som...@some.domain
40% of the resources used by 7% of the world's population.
som...@some.domain
interefers with this universe? nah.....no empirical evidence at all.
happy holidays to you and yours.
Isti Mirant Stella
Providing, of course, that said baby is the offspring of Snow White and
Prince Charming. Most aren't, as you know. Especially the unwanted ones.
som...@some.domain
snow white was sterile from her meth habit and prince charming turned gay
after the seven dwarfs gang-banged him.
the stuff disney hides.....
Brian Oakley
B
PC
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:SmJ%k.398697$3I2.2...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>>Providing, of course, that said baby is the offspring of Snow White and
>>Prince Charming. Most aren't, as you know. Especially the unwanted ones.
>>
>>
> should have wrapped it up. condoms says i love you.
> snow white was sterile from her meth habit and prince charming turned gay
> after the seven dwarfs gang-banged him.
> the stuff disney hides.....
How did she maintain such beautiful skin?
Brian Oakley
normal lives is ludicrous. The would be living, same as we are, working,
paying bills, having children, getting divorced, etc. Geeze, there are a LOT
of people born into less than perfect lives. Get over it.
B
Brian Oakley
Well, truth is tough sometimes. If showing a prospective mother what her
baby will look like, either by ultrasound or by graphic photos will get her
to think about the repercussions about what she is doing, then it is worth
it.
B
PC
>
>>
>> But the questions continue to nag: Where would all those people be
>> today? What would they be? What would be their quality of life?
> Thats a nonsenical question. For you to presume they would be anything but
> normal lives is ludicrous.
If you can actually define "normal". You can't. Your assertion is
ludicrous. Try something with substance.
> The would be living, same as we are, working, paying bills, having
> children, getting divorced, etc.
Smoking crack, ripping off your home, spreading disease, living in a
homeless shelter...
> Geeze, there are a LOT of people born into less than perfect lives. Get
> over it.
And a lot of infants die shortly after childbirth. Get over it? That is so
callous it makes me shiver.
Besides that, what are you going to do to help them? And the next
generation that they raise in dysfunction? And after that? Hmmm?
PC
>
>
> Well, truth is tough sometimes.
You mean like, "Roe v Wade is the law"?
Brian Oakley
cause. Im not attempting to persuade anyone. I am just commenting to some
of the diatribe that goes on in this newsgroup.
B
Brian Oakley
B
Brian Oakley
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:Q_H%k.398690$3I2.1...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
Not believing doesnt mean Hes not real. The evidence is all around. You
just choose not to believe.
B
Isti Mirant Stella
Have I been phrasing my questions above your reading level, or do you have
an attention deficit issue, or what? You have repeatedly ignored all my
pointed questions, most significantly the part where I asked you if you love
God. Go ahead, scroll upward, it's there. Then answer me directly, if
you've got the guts.
PC
> Have I been phrasing my questions above your reading level, or do you have
> an attention deficit issue, or what? You have repeatedly ignored all my
> pointed questions, most significantly the part where I asked you if you
> love God. Go ahead, scroll upward, it's there. Then answer me directly,
> if you've got the guts.
He won't.
Bruce Remick
Nor does it promote life because of any potential world leader it might
produce. And I'm sure you must be aware that your interpretation of
"murder" is not universal. Your posts here are indeed attempting to promote
your personal views and to persuade those with different views to see the
error of their ways. It's YOU who inevitably show up here whenever a thread
happens to drift into anything to do with religion or abortion who usually
incites the diatribe. You probably would have more clout in some other
newsgroup.
Bruce Remick
Nor does believing mean he IS real. Many see none of the "evidence" you do.
Most choose to follow a particular god or religion based on faith and
parental influence, not based on perceived evidence.
Isti Mirant Stella
Watch this space. It's only a matter of time before another certain
drive-by poster comes along to inject her venom.
Isti Mirant Stella
Never underestimate the power of "special" revelation. I keep hoping that
one day I'll experience it, and when I do, I'm going to come back to this
newsgroup and teach all you heathens what you don't know how. But don't
stay up at night waiting.
som...@some.domain
to have faith. i have faith that religion is the longest running, least
productive, most expensive scam ever forced on the human race.
their is ZERO empiracal proof. --
Aladdin Sane
"Brian Oakley" <brian....@charter.net> wrote in message
news:65G%k.19390$yB4...@newsfe07.iad...
>
> Murder is not draconian? Did it ever occur to anyone that that "blob" of
> tissue has its own dna? And it is human DNA.
> B
So does a bugger, do you save those too?
Aladdin Sane
>
> "Isti Mirant Stella" <lo...@bayeux.fr> wrote in message
> news:ghmdh...@enews1.newsguy.com...
>> Lorrie S. wrote:
>>> "Isti Mirant Stella" <lo...@bayeux.fr> wrote in message
>>> news:ghhkt...@enews2.newsguy.com...
>>>> Me, too. Brian's list of "consequences" of abortion could just as
>>>> easily
>>> apply to women who have given birth against their will.
>>>
>>>
>>> Right, like little Janey that was forced to give birth to the nigger
>>> drug dealer that raped her. Do you think GWB would allow one of his
>>> daughters to carry such an abomination to term? But he would force
>>> Joe Citizen's daughter to carry it to full term if it was within his
>>> power. It isn't difficult to see through the Christian right's
>>> perverted hidden agenda of making every man's home his "castle
>>> fortress" complete with prison bars to keep the "family harem" as
>>> child bearing sex slaves.
>>
>> I'm still a strong believer in the idea that I can use my own religious
>> notions and interpretations of Scripture, such as they are, to run my own
>> life. I would never in a million years consider using them to run
>> someone else's life. Unfortunately, I way too often bump into people who
>> want to use their notions and interpretations to run mine, often coupled
>> with using the State to make sure that I comply with their views.
> Thats the reason there is so much anarchy. People want to line Scripture
> up to defend their own sin, insted of lining up thier lives with what
> Scripture says.
> B
Such Hubris.
Perhaps you should investigate how "Scripture" came to be. The earliest book
of the "New Testament" was written at least 30 years after the death of
Jesus, and the oldest fragment of that text dates from apx 270 c.e. Copies
of texts were made by hand, and translated into local dialects etc until
there is no certainty what the original looked like. And NOTE: Jesus did not
write any of these testaments, they are based on oral recollections of
uneducated followers passed on for generations.
Then there is the problem of other religious traditions. Beliefs in
reincarnation lay one of the strongest anti-choice arguements to rest.
som...@some.domain
from the same time period, same place, there are detailed records of
criminals, their crimes and punishments. the romans were rabid record keepers
but he ain't there. amazing how virtually everything he 'sposed to do and say
were after he was dead. often, way after.
it was good way to legitimize a new and weak religion, but history? nah, not
the same.
PC
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:XuU%k.97697$5i4....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com...
>>A conclusion is simply the place
>>where you decided to stop thinking.
>>
>>
> and why is there no proof of jesus existence?
There is plenty of evidence Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. What are
you talking about?
Lorrie S.
might just be the next doctor to cure what ails you in >your old age.
More often than not, it would be the sicko punk that slashes the wife's
throat in front of the husband and then rapes his daughter before pulling
both barrels of a 12 gauge in their faces.
Lorrie S.
mother what her
> baby will look like, either by ultrasound or by graphic photos will get
her
> to think about the repercussions about what she is doing, then it is worth
> it.
After the cuteness wears off and it shits every 3 hours, these little
bitches will just toss it into an open dumpster and scurry off to school.
And to think it could have been aborted and not left to suffer in a hot/cold
dumpster until its little life runs out.
Lorrie S.
. Fortunately, it looks
> like God has a way of keeping things in check.
if God truly existed, there wouldn't be such a thing as abortion. Because
according to religious fanatics, God is against abortion. His will be done
and the fact that he is supposed to be omnipotent, proves that there is no
God. Only a hateful God would sit back and allow children to be raped and
murdered. If the rape and murder of children is all part of his wonderful
plan, then you'd have to be a sicko or pervert to follow such nonsense.
Lorrie S.
of 25 in 3rd world nations.
> 40% of the resources used by 7% of the world's population.
Most American babies are plump and 3rd world nations would probably
cannabalize and feast upon such children....like in The Hills Have Eyes.
som...@some.domain
birthdate recorded in the family torah?
everything i've seen dates after the alleged death.
archeologists went nuts with that asuary until it was proven fake.
ain't never seen anything considered hard copy.
i'm more than willing to see and acknowledge anything real but it ain't there.
that isn't my admittedly skeptical belief, it's what is there, or not there in
this case.
i would be willing to change my beliefs based on emprical proof, i have no
faith to lose and no agenda to gain. i respect other's beliefs...until they
try to preach to me.
Lorrie S.
> How did she maintain such beautiful skin?
>
tapioca facials?
Brian Oakley
Yeah, sorry to say. Now that we have the Ultra Liberal going into office,
that mistake will take much more effort to correct.
B
PC
No need to worry. Obama was elected instead of an ultra liberal.
Brian Oakley
Thats what happens when you go for popular opinion.
>Your posts here are indeed attempting to promote your personal views and to
>persuade those with different views to see the error of their ways.
And the OPs werent??
>It's YOU who inevitably show up here whenever a thread happens to drift
>into anything to do with religion or abortion who usually incites the
>diatribe.
I didnt start the comments. I did respond. Why dont you ever try to bully
the other posters? Are you bigoted or??
>You probably would have more clout in some other newsgroup.
>
Yeah, well if the diatribe werent so one sided and narrow minded in here, I
might move to another ng. But, hey, they brought it up with the remarks they
made. Just because you dont agree with me doesnt really give you the right
to take away anyones ability to voice their counter opinion.
B
Brian Oakley
think I need to answer any thing you ask? Unlike you, I have a life outside
of RCC, and if I answer you, its because I choose to. If you are asuming
that the reason I dont answer your inquiries is that I cant, or that your
questions are so good or so hard to deal with, then maybe your ego needs to
be looked into. Most of the time when I DONT answer something its because
its that I dont have time to waste, the question is not germane to the
subject, just doesnt plain deserve an answer, or in your case, most of the
time the questions are so incoherent that they cant be given an answer. If
you wish to go off the ng, Ill gladly answer any questions you care to pose,
sir. Do YOU have the guts?
Merry Christmas
B
Brian Oakley
closer to the time of the occurances accounted for than most every other
manuscript every recorded. There are over 25000 fragments, pieces and
manuscripts that can be compared to each other as well as to the latest
translations and they differ very little. As for their authors education,
tax collectors had to know how to keep records, doctors had to know a little
bit about what they were doing, and John was around when the first document
was written, and if he had known it to be false, why would he not say so?
Sorry, but the recorded evidence is just too good to say that the Bible is
inaccurate. To apply the same standard, you would have to say that
everything else written during that time is also just as inaccurate, and I
dont think you can get intellectually honest scholars to say anything
different. Something you didnt mention is how meticulous the Jews were
about making accurate copies of their documents. Why dont you pick up "The
Books and the Parchments" by F.F. Bruce for a little light reading on the
subject.
Merry Christmas,
B
Brian Oakley
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:XuU%k.97697$5i4....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com...
You would never get an honest intellectual schollar to say that Jesus didnt
exist.
And if it were not true, why would the diciples die for something they KNEW
was NOT true?
B
Brian Oakley
<som...@some.domain> wrote in message
news:BSY%k.327524$6p1.1...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
They didnt even want to admit to Pontius Pilates existance until they found
some engravings with his name on them just relatively recently. And he was
the Roman Procurator. What makes you think its just so easy to find records
of someone like Jesus, a peasant that the Romans hardly paid any attention
to?
B
Lorrie S.
around.
Yeah, I see it when I order a Big Mac with no lettuce and get a lapful. I
see it in traffic when trying to make an exit and someone cuts me off on
purpose. If you can go through life without fucking up somebody else's
ride, then you've found God.
Bruce Remick
Popular or not, many still disagree with your equating abortion with murder
under the law. Enough in fact.......
>
>>Your posts here are indeed attempting to promote your personal views and
>>to persuade those with different views to see the error of their ways.
>
> And the OPs werent??
Most of the others are arguing with YOU, not trying to preach to others.
>
>>It's YOU who inevitably show up here whenever a thread happens to drift
>>into anything to do with religion or abortion who usually incites the
>>diatribe.
>
> I didnt start the comments. I did respond. Why dont you ever try to bully
> the other posters? Are you bigoted or??
Your familiar pattern of swooping down from hibernation to spout your
parochial views has kept this thread alive. And then you feel bullied?
You're certainly free to participate, but you do so at your own risk. Am I
bigoted. Perhaps. Who knows?
>
>>You probably would have more clout in some other newsgroup.
>>
> Yeah, well if the diatribe werent so one sided and narrow minded in here,
> I might move to another ng. But, hey, they brought it up with the remarks
> they made. Just because you dont agree with me doesnt really give you the
> right to take away anyones ability to voice their counter opinion.
> B
The diatribe in this thread probably wouldn't have been so thick had you
chosen to stay out of it. So someone here made a remark about an OT subject
that you disagreed with and just HAD to join in to promote your position.
Fine. It's a controversial subject. You should have known you'd take some
hits before you hit the keyboard. Everyone's fair game on usenet. Dry your
eyes and keep playing as long you like.
som...@some.domain
and new proofs. no argument about the pilate stuff, it was him at the right
time. there are others at other times, as you already know.
like i said, i can change my views. i don't have an agenda, i don't want to
change you or your beliefs, (unless you get obnoxiously in my face, which i
suspect you brian, would not do.) and i certainly won't be surprised at
anything that happens in archealogy.
i will be surprised if the ufo whackos are correct and emilia erhardt, judge
crater and ambrose bierce waltz onto the evening news. i have a prejudice that
this will not happen.
remember what robert heinlein said, one man's religion is another man's belly
laugh. a friend of mine's brothe is a frisbeetarian. he believes when you die
your sould goes on the roof and you can't get it down. is he wrong? i can't
prove it.