PayPal buyer protection is mostly useless
PC
uncirculated coin. When I advise him of the error he merely states "Thanks
for the clarification." All further attempts at communication are ignored.
I open a case and escalate to a claim.
PayPal says I have to return the item before I can get a refund. I supply
the signature confirmation number to PayPal. This was a week or two ago.
Today I get an email saying they could not verify the item was delivered.
Case closed. Over. I will never get a refund. And I don't have the coin.
No chance to correct the number if I may have entered it wrong. I can't
even check anywhere in the case history to see what they think the number is
I supplied to them.
This is total BS. I am thinking the seller just didn't sign for the item.
If that is the case at least I get the coin back.
PC
it shows as delivered on the USPS website.
Sheesh.
Harvey Bastacky
More often it is the seller rather than the buyer
that suffers a loss due to Paypal.
Looks like Paypal has taken its toll on both
the seller and buyer.
"PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
news:gon1rm$4ao$1...@reader.motzarella.org...
PC
"Harvey Bastacky" <bast...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:VMErl.11629$qa....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Sorry to hear about your loss.
>
> More often it is the seller rather than the buyer
> that suffers a loss due to Paypal.
>
> Looks like Paypal has taken its toll on both
> the seller and buyer.
>
In my experience they usually side with the buyer. In this case I have no
idea why they have not sided with the buyer. Their reason does not hold
water. I can not believe how they make a decision and then that's it. Even
if Paypal screwed up there is no recourse.
David Farmer
both toll free........give it a try
"PC" <P...@Minneapolis.mn.us> wrote in message
news:gon7nv$i67$1...@reader.motzarella.org...
Tony Clayton
They sided with the seller when an item failed to arrive, because
he had a tracking number.
It seems they want it both ways.
>
--
Tony Clayton tony.cla...@pem.cam.ac.uk
Coins of the UK : http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... Computer Lie #1: You'll never use all that disk space.
PC
>
> They sided with the seller when an item failed to arrive, because
> he had a tracking number.
>
> It seems they want it both ways.
>
It's not just me. Phew! <g>
The item was delivered though. I checked myself. It arrived two
weeks ago and was signed for by the same person who sold me the coin.
I did have to enter the tracking number in the case at one point in
time. Did I fat-finger it? Did it get corrupted in the database? Is
there some flaw in the method they use to verify USPS tracking? I
have no clue - I can't find a reference to the tracking number they
think I provided.
I guess I will try the phone numbers provided by another poster but
the email I received sounded very firm that the case was now closed
and that is the end of the story. Oh yeah - and the email also said
how sorry they are. Usually when I am sorry about something I look
for ways to make up for it if at all possible.
At least it is just a stupid $40 purchase - shipping included but if I
at least still had the coin I could recoup a lot of that money. I
have messaged the seller to inquire if he plans on keeping both the
coin and my money. If history is any indication, my messages will go
unanswered.
RWF
>> have no idea why they have not sided with the buyer. Their reason
>> does not hold water. I can not believe how they make a decision and
>> then that's it. Even if Paypal screwed up there is no recourse.
You can challenge the charge with the credit card company. Usually they
are pretty favorable to buyers.
PC
Of course! Good idea. Thank you!
Peter
Its not just you:
http://www.paypalsucks.com/
PC
>
> - Show quoted text -
The stories on that site make my situation seem very trivial. Wow.
This really has me thinking about just stopping selling on eBay
entirely lest I get caught in a much worse situation some day.
I already have a habit of regularly emptying out my PayPal balance
into my linked account and then moving the money somewhere else as
fast as possible. This seems prudent in light of the horror stories
on that website.
mazorj
FWIW, I just concluded a satisfactory claim against a seller
through PayPal. This was a direct sale, not through eBay.
The seller failed to send me the agreed item. After weeks
of fruitless e-mails, I filed a PayPal dispute. They gave
the seller a few weeks to respond. The day after the
seller's deadline for response expired, most of the money
was back in my PayPal account. Of course, this was
self-evident fraud and the seller made no attempt to defend
herself, so it was pretty cut-and-dried. Still, I had
visited the anti-PayPal sites and it was only with great
reluctance that I had opened a PayPal account, mainly for
use on e-Bay. I was entirely skeptical about getting any
satisfaction, but they made good on their buyer protection.
You hit a different wall and got screwed. It makes you
wonder if any human being is at the other end handling
things, or do they just let a computer routine grind out
their decisions? GIGO.
Apparently I filed just in time. So far I've only gotten
$48.25 back on a $50 sale claim. PayPal says they tried to
take the remaining amount from the seller's associated bank
account and failed. The seller's info page on PayPal had
her listed as some kind of "power user" (not those words,
but I got the impression it was the PP equivalent to an eBay
power seller). Now she's apparently pulled up stakes and
they can't even get a $1.75 residual claim amount from her.
So much for seller ratings on PP!
rjn
Correct. Its chief functions seem to be:
a. let users think they are protected, and thus
fail to perform complete due diligence
b. protect PayPal when the entirely predictable
consequences of a. occur
Unless things have changed, a favorable settlement
will not result in a refund unless the seller has
foolishly left money in their PP account (or PayPal
is escrowing it because seller is already messing
with other buyers). As I understand it, if the $
are not there at settlement, PP does not "protect"
you. You get a "you win - and you lose" message.
PP will lodge a hold against the funds, though, and
if money shows up later, PP will grab it.
An interesting question is, does the buyer then ever
see that money? I haven't heard of such a case.
I expect that at some point, legal action will
expose how all this really works.
Which is why, when the amount in question matters,
you fund the buy with a credit card (and this means
you keep your PP account at $0, or sweep it just
before the buy).
> I bought a Marine Corps proof dollar from a buyer
> on eBay. He sends me an uncirculated coin.
> When I advise him of the error ...
Tactical error. When you don't get what you paid for,
you do not "advise" the seller. You politely but
firmly state the facts, and propose a specific
resolution, including that any refund include
the full original FV/tax/S&H cost to you.
Propose who pays for return shipment. If seller
offers to send a pre-paid label, make sure it's
for on-line trackable signature level service
(or upgrade it to that at your expense).
Manage tracking numbers with cut and paste.
Verify what's on the clipboard at the carriers
tracking page, before sending the # anywhere else.
You also use eBay messaging for all
communications. If seller is using email, quote
their email in response Messages.
If you are also an eBay seller, you add this seller's
ID to your BBL immediately.
> All further attempts at communication are ignored.
or as another poster put it:
> After weeks of fruitless e-mails,
If the proposed resolution doesn't yield an agreement,
or productive negotiations, you send no further messages.
Open the dispute immediately. Do it sooner rather than
later, because:
1. it will trigger an account hold, and
2. it's easy to close a needless dispute.
Say nothing about CC charge-back during the dispute,
esp. on the PayPal console. The seller has no idea
how you paid, and is well aware that it may be CC,
and what your recourse is there. Mentioning CB may
bias PayPal toward buyer when time comes to settle
the case.
Do not post FB, or mention FB, or respond on the
topic of FB, until the matter is fully settled.
Buyer expectations on eBay, as always, are set by
amazon.com, who, when the actual seller is Amazon,
have a liberal return policy, and pay for return shipping.
I recently had to use it when they fouled up an order.
And yes, eBay buyers and sellers need to contemplate
these downside scenarios BEFORE they list and buy.
--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:na...@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
rjn
correction: toward seller