Beck and Goldline International
Frank Galikanokus
Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based
gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk
investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony
Weiner (D-N.Y.).
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html
JAM
Bruce Remick
"Frank Galikanokus" <FrankGal...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4BF2C555...@nospam.net...
Beck spouts his fear-mongering crap on his TV blackboard every afternoon.
e.g., "things your government isn't telling you", etc. He obviously sees
himself as a wise uncle whose life sacrifice is to enlighten the population.
Anyone who follows his advice and later has "buyers remorse" should simply
drop Beck a line with a request for a compensation form.
Mr. Jaggers
Beck and all others of his ilk have been identified by extremely wealthy
individuals and organizations with agendas as having the special talent of
being vectors of propaganda for those agendas. They get paid handsomely for
their services (don't think for a second that their bloated salaries are
covered by advertising - the media they occupy are struggling to get by on
their advertising revenue as it is, and often have trouble meeting
day-to-day expenses), and they laugh all the way to the bank. Their work is
successfully packaged and marketed to the slow-witted as "entertainment",
and whenever anyone tells me that's all it is, I simply answer, "So are
pornography, public beheadings, and gladiator fights."
James
Ken Barr
Frank Galikanokus <FrankGal...@nospam.net> wrote:
Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of
unethical behavior ...
It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new
irony meter ... mint just exploded!
--
Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table)
oly
> In article <4BF2C555.E15D9...@nospam.net>,
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares
weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts"
gold buyers have done well recently.
If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat
government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be
a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
> On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:
>> In article <4BF2C555.E15D9...@nospam.net>,
>> Frank Galikanokus <FrankGalikano...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a
>>> California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering
>>> tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued
>>> Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.).
>>
>>> Read more:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html
>>
>> Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of
>> unethical behavior ...
>>
>> It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new
>> irony meter ... mint just exploded!
>>
>> --
>> Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
>> P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
>> San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
>> 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table)
>
> The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares
> weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts"
> gold buyers have done well recently.
Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y > X. How many people buy
gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types.
> If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat
> government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be
> a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties.
Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two
usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to
three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions
should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux?
Just sayin'
James
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:hsv6v...@enews6.newsguy.com...
Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no
tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and
weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly
are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about
the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature.
Mr. Jaggers
History records numerous panics, recessions, and depressions, all while we
were on the esteemed "gold standard." Even gold could be considered "fiat"
money, since its value depends on what someone other than I says it is.
Don't get me wrong, I like gold, I like its looks, but I have yet to see a
well-crafted scenario of what would happen when push came to shove. If
somebody decides his loaf of bread is worth a St. Gaudens twenty, very few
indeed will eat. The rest will attempt to kill him who eats, and steal his
gold AND his bread.
James
Jason Burke
Has he finally kill(fil)ed himself?
Peter
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think that pushing and shoving (and especially killing) is a bit
over the top. In that situation on hopes there are still police. If
not, things are very bad, indeed and exactly which form of money would
be best seems too hypothetical to make accurate predictions.
The observation that we have a form of social democracy, that our
leaders have populist inclinations and have expressed them in concrete
terms is enough for the question of stability of prices and a store of
value to be discussed.
The longer term trend for the price of gold has been clear enough
(from $20/Oz to $1200/Oz). Inconveniently for an argument that we
should depend primarily on gold, it has occurred over a time frame
that exceeds a normal lifetime. The case that it is a hedge against a
weakening currency is a case that much of the world understands.
Admittedly, the US dollar has behaved better than some other
currencies and folks who lived in Indonesia, Turkey or Zimbabwe tend
to scoff at our fretfulness; even so, perhaps in milder amounts,
inflation can happen here.
My eclectic choices of items to purchase does not seem to resemble
those chosen for the CPI since my expenses do seem to go up a lot and
the CPI does not. Gold has done a somewhat better job of tracking my
expenses than the dollar has (e.g., in about 1960 a Piper PA-18-150,
new, cost about $5000; today a usable but thoroughly used one costs
about $80,000).
As for whether the advocates of one position or another have been
bribed, ask yourself whether the politicians are themselves pure.
My personal interest in gold as a commodity is as a hedge. I have
sufficient cash for my needs. My theory is that a small part needs to
be in something that will hold its value (or at least vary in value in
a different way than paper money). Personally I prefer to keep some
coins and some Goerz Dagors. They certainly won't ward off bullets,
but they might be useful in case doubts arise about the value of the
various forms of colored paper I have. My broad theory about the
correct proportion in other things is to have enough that it be useful
in buying immediate needs and not be a significant (e.g., less that
5%) part of my savings.
Bruce Remick
"Peter" <w2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5efd27e6-ca24-46c5...@f13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
============
In any extreme crisis scenario where the dollar actually becomes worthless,
one might be better off with a bunker of MRE's, bottled water, and an AK-47
w/ammo.....plus of course any particular Starbucks blend one just can't live
without. That stock of gold kept as an inflation hedge will be of little
practical use unless you really need a nostalgia fix. The process of
"buying things" will be a fond memory. Fortunately, there's a happy ending
to this movie. ;>)
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry Mr. Remick, but Peter's reply beats yours' by a country mile.
You asked "where's the tragic collapse of the dollar?" and he
correctly replied that it's already happened, but it has been managed
over longer than one person's lifetime.
It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no
alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in fixed
ratios to precious metals. It's easier to be a drunk when the whole
world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as distinctly.
Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's
pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop.
You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or revolution.
Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side of a period of
anarchy to the other side when normality returns. Silver would be a
better tool during the bad times, but yes, actually having stored
goods for personal use or barter would be valuable too.
Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any
better???
oly
Mr. Jaggers
The ammunition shortages are being caused by irrational fears that somehow
the gummint is going to confiscate private firearms in the near future
(actually, shouldn't we wonder why it hasn't happened already, since these
fears were first expressed back in '07?), these fears, of course, being
trumped up by the radio talkers. There's just nothing quite like stoking
the fires of fear and hate via several hours a day output from the likes of
Beck and Limbaugh, and I know plenty of otherwise decent folks right here in
North Lugburz who have fallen under their sickening spell.
That said, your statement about not being able to use gold during a collapse
or revolution has merit. You really cannot predict the course of such an
event (viz. the French Revolution, one of history's greatest and most ironic
failures), so a resort to survivalism might get you through. How many rolls
of papier h will it take to trade for your pound of jerky, mon bon voisin?
And don't get any funny ideas, 'cause I know karate.
James the Barterer
Bruce Remick
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a210106b-bb16-4645...@j27g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
============================
Since rcc has been quiet lately, I risk repeating my premise that the
declining value of the dollar is only one part of the total equation as it
affects lifestyle. While buying power of the dollar has declined, wages
have risen accordingly. Over my lifetime, a similar percentage of my income
has been required to buy a car or a loaf of bread. I began federal service
45 years ago as a GS-5 making $5,500 a year. My new Chevy cost $3,500.
Today, the same starting GS-5 makes over $30,000 a year and that new Chevy
sells for $23,000. The numbers are higher but there's no "tragic collapse"
or hurting here. It's all relative and pretty much financially painless.
Those on long term fixed incomes certainly would be the ones hurt here, but
then they're always among the most vulnerable.
My reasoning may not agree with acedemic economic principles, but it's
my real world observation.
============================
It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no
alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in fixed
ratios to precious metals. It's easier to be a drunk when the whole
world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as distinctly.
Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's
pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop.
You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or revolution.
Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side of a period of
anarchy to the other side when normality returns. Silver would be a
better tool during the bad times, but yes, actually having stored
goods for personal use or barter would be valuable too.
Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any
better???
=============================
To be honest, I haven't tried to buy any ammunition since I was a
teenager when kids were trusted with guns and ammo for target practice and
weren't tempted to kill each other. In the service and after, whatever
ammunition I needed was issued to me. Sounds like a good thing to hold onto
though, if you have any lying around.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Indeed, the French Revolution is probably THE guide for what could
happen in a "modern" "civilized" nation gone beserk. Flashing gold
during the French Revolution was a quick way to get a free shave by
the "National Razor".
They say that vendors sold "programs" of the names of those scheduled
to be guillotined each day to the crowd gathered to watch. I'll bet
the vendors didn't insist on anything other than assignats.
Nevertheless, I tend to think that silver dimes, quarters and half
dollars will function for the beef jerkey trade. My studies of the
German Hyperinflation 1919-1923 make me think that those who had
silver coins (and foreign notes and coins) didn't fare badly at all
during that period.
I balk at suggesting to you (or anyone), mon vieux, exactly what to do
because so many business/investment situations that I thought were
solid have bellied-up in the last three years. Things that I thought
were good also have done a great job of losing five-sixths of their
value with amazing consistency. Of course, most of the ones I thought
were crappy did not make it either, but my ability to identify the
good ones hasn't been stellar. Also, I strongly think that we will do
a "double-dip" recession in 2010-11.
oly
Frank Galikanokus
The old adage is to buy low and sell high.
The sad truth is that the vast majority of "investors" buy high and sell
low.
Now is not the time to buy, it's time to sell.
JAM
Mr. Jaggers
I harbor no illusions that the current "recovery" is anything other than a
fool's rally. There are still way too many people who stand to gain
handsomely from another market drop. They have the wherewithal to bring it
about, and they won't wait until the Dow is anywhere near 14k, methinks.
James
Frank Galikanokus
The only people pushing for a return to the gold standard are those that
are heavily invested in gold, like Ron Paul.
I think it's hilarious that he named his son Rand. He read a book in his
youth and has been infatuated with it ever since.
JAM
Mr. Jaggers
O Great Wise and Wonderful Prophet, whither the market?
James the Ob'd Servant
Mr. Jaggers
Mercy, I never made that connection, but now that you mention it...
James, with Slackened Jaw
Frank Galikanokus
A cellar full of beer and liqueur will buy more in a crisis than a gold
coin.
JAM
Mr. Jaggers
The old Herter's catalog used to include a lecture about that. IIRC, he
recommended alcohol, tobacco, and ammunition as the commodities of choice
under adverse conditions. The ammunition may have been mentioned as a
warning not to try to steal the other two.
James
oly
wrote:
> Bruce Remick wrote:
>
> > "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
The trouble with that idea being that a cellar full of potables isn't
always easy to remove or hide should one's home be invaded or should
one become a refugee in troubled times. Gold and diamonds work better
in that extreme.
Those unfortunates in late Roman Britain didn't hide their beer. I
hope they drank theirs. However, The British Museum has been the
beneficiary of wonderful hoards of gold and silver coins and plate
because of that particular centuries-long collapse.
oly
oly
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Now the French were able to hide a great deal of wine and related
products from the Nazis, but they had vast caves and cellars built up
over the last two thousand years. There is a recent book titled "Wine
and War" about how well the Froggies hid their potables.
Here in the IL flatlands, caves are a scarce resource indeed.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
And the Brits have been drinking warm beer ever since!
James the Lush
oly
Well, in their defense, the Limeys drink beer and ales at "room
temperature" and that usually means the temperature in the cellar.
When one factors in how far north England lies, it's not as bad as it
sounds.
In April, happily, I drank a number of "hand-crafted" ales while in
Oxford and then stuck mostly to Fuller's ESB ale while in London.
oly
Bruce Remick
============
The fruits of most any pub tap in the UK is fair game to me, except for the
embarassing Budweiser tap in the cities. I found one way for a Yank to get
free neckties was to wear any pub tie in the "wrong" pub. The publican
would occasionally scold me and present me with a "proper" tie that
represented that particular house. Kinda neat, except that I've always
hated wearing ties.
oly
The "Museum of London" in the Barbican area offers a most attractive
silk tie that features a hoard of Roman Imperial Gold aureus (of the
time period 96-180 A.D.). The tie comes in gold color or silver
color. The wife bought me a gold-colored one on a trip back in 2007
and I really really like it. I balked at buying a second one for
25GBP, because they had a book I wanted more. I wish that I had
bought a second one, though.
The Museum of London is a great Museum, partially under redvelopement
during my April visit. They had part (maybe a dozen) of the recently
discovered "Plantation Hoard" of Trajan to Commodus aureus on display,
but not all 43 coins.
oly
Frank Galikanokus
Cannes: How the bankers fleeced the world
Director Charles Ferguson on his smash Cannes doc, which indicts the
financial sector as a "criminal industry"
http://www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/film_salon/2010/05/19/cannes_ferguson/index.html
JAM
Frank Galikanokus
When prices are at historic levels, when the buy, buy, buy messages
reaches hysterical levels, it's time to sell.
JAM
Mr. Jaggers
That seems to be exactly what happened, what was it, about 2 1/2 years ago?
Get enough computers with price points set to similar levels, and the whole
thing cascades down like a house of cards.
James the Bear Marketeer
Mr. Jaggers
Wow. While I'm not in a position to independently verify all Ferguson says
in that interview, it has a major ring of truth and reality about it. I'd
be interested in what other rcc people have to say about it.
James
Frank Galikanokus
Look up these links for a deeper understanding of how "deregulation" has
lead to economic ruin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass�Steagall_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garn_�_St._Germain_Depository_Institutions_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm�Leach�Bliley_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
JAM
Frank Galikanokus
It happened with the .com bubble and then real estate bubble and then...
JAM
Peter
wrote:
> The only people pushing for a return to the gold standard are those that
> are heavily invested in gold, like Ron Paul.
> JAM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm not sure I remember correctly, but I think Reagan asked Ron Paul
for a concrete proposal to return the USA to a gold standard and he
was unable to provide one. I don't think it would be a simple matter.
Peter
wrote:
> > > When prices are at historic levels, when the buy, buy, buy messages
> > > reaches hysterical levels, it's time to sell.
> It happened with the .com bubble and then real estate bubble and then...
>
> JAM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I remember the 1970's pretty well. The level of hype as we approached
1980 was quite a bit more hysterical than just now.
Robert Prechter is quite sure it is time to sell gold, but my
impression is that he has been a gold skept since around 2002 or so.
I suspect he just doesn't like the stuff. Some other sensible folks
differ.
Mr. Jaggers
> On May 19, 5:27 pm, Frank Galikanokus <FrankGalikano...@nospam.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>> When prices are at historic levels, when the buy, buy, buy messages
>>>> reaches hysterical levels, it's time to sell.
>
>
>> It happened with the .com bubble and then real estate bubble and
>> then...
>>
>> JAM- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I remember the 1970's pretty well. The level of hype as we approached
> 1980 was quite a bit more hysterical than just now.
Unlike the late 1970s, we now have media talkers and cable tv news that
carry the term "hysterical" to a height we have not seen and could not see
previously. The hysteria has found fertile ground in private email and
Facebook, just to name two additional outlets that weren't around back then.
James
Mr. Jaggers
Exactly - not a simple matter. But, considering the intellect of the man on
the street, politicians know they have to reduce everything to a sound bite
or risk losing the next election. Simple solutions always play well in
Peoria, because they almost always zap the other guy. Complex solutions zap
you and me.
James
Mr. Jaggers
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garn_-_St._Germain_Depository_Institutions_Act
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
The question that must be asked, and then answered, by anyone who plans to
speak to the topic of the American economy is, "Should capitalism be
completely unfettered, no matter who may be hurt, or how badly, or should
restrictions be placed on the economy to protect us all?"
There. I asked the question.
Now I will answer it. I propose that restrictions be placed on the economy
to protect us all, lest we revert to a medieval, feudalistic way of life.
Now I will speak to the topic. Only a very few people benefit from a
completely unfettered economy. The vast majority lose, in direct proportion
to the level of deregulation. Safeguarding the economy is a prime activity
that an individual cannot possibly undertake on his own, and thus is in the
legitimate purview of government.
James
Mr. Jaggers
Rep. Ron Paul expresses his ideas re: the gold standard and the Fed quite
eloquently in his book entitled The Revolution. Two things we can be
absolutely sure of: 1) It will take a Revolution, not an Evolution, to get
us back on the gold standard, and 2) history teaches us that revolutions
never progress according to the blueprints of their perpetrators.
James
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Sigh. Brings back memories of Joe Pyne.
Mr. Jaggers
You mean Mr. "Take a Walk"?
James, in the Dock, but only for a very short time
Frank Galikanokus
Agreed.
JAM
Peter
> There. I asked the question.
>
> Now I will answer it. I propose that restrictions be placed on the economy
> to protect us all, lest we revert to a medieval, feudalistic way of life.
>
> Now I will speak to the topic. Only a very few people benefit from a
> completely unfettered economy. The vast majority lose, in direct proportion
> to the level of deregulation. Safeguarding the economy is a prime activity
> that an individual cannot possibly undertake on his own, and thus is in the
> legitimate purview of government.
>
> James
I can't precisely disagree. Even so, in case that is the best course,
who will regulate the regulators? The congress has by no means shown
itself to be up to the job.
We've discussed a large number of topics relating to the subject. I
think you have a taste for a historical view. With some trepidation,
may I suggest that this recent lecture bears on the subject:
http://www.piie.com/events/event_detail.cfm?EventID=152&Media
"Roßert G. Schaffrath"
>
> The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares
> weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts"
> gold buyers have done well recently.
>
> government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be
> a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties.
>
Besides gold, the other things that are of value in times of crisis are
food, fuel, firearms and ammunition. In fact, it might be easier in a
real crisis to barter a box of ammunition or gallon of gasoline for
something than a gold coin. Unfortunately, the shelf life of food
(unless prepared for long term storage) or gasoline is limited.
Observer
<FrankGal...@nospam.net> wrote:
>Bruce Remick wrote:
>>
>> "Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
>> news:hsv6v...@enews6.newsguy.com...
>> > oly wrote:
>> >> On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr <k...@kenbarr.com> wrote:
>> >>> In article <4BF2C555.E15D9...@nospam.net>,
>> >>> Frank Galikanokus <FrankGalikano...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a
>> >>>> California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering
>> >>>> tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued
>> >>>> Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.).
>> >>>
>> >>>> Read more:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html
>> >>>
>> >>> Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of
>> >>> unethical behavior ...
>> >>>
>> >>> It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new
>> >>> irony meter ... mint just exploded!
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Ken Barr Numismatics email: k...@kenbarr.com
>> >>> P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com
>> >>> San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc.
>> >>> 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table)
>> >>
>> >> The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares
>> >> weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts"
>> >> gold buyers have done well recently.
>> >
>> > Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y > X. How many people buy
>> > gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types.
>> >
>> >> If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat
>> >> government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be
>> >> a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties.
>> >
>> > Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two
>> > usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two
>> > to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what
>> > actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon
>> > vieux? Just sayin'
>> >
>> > James
>>
>> Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no
>> tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and
>> weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly
>> are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about
>> the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature.
>
>The only people pushing for a return to the gold standard are those that
>are heavily invested in gold, like Ron Paul.
>
>I think it's hilarious that he named his son Rand. He read a book in his
>youth and has been infatuated with it ever since.
Rand is short for Randall. Pretty hilarious, eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul
__
The last official act of any government is the looting of the nation.