Best way to image a coin?
Storm's Hamburgers
see with a camera are not good.
I'd like opinoins on imaging coins please.
mk
Scott D.
"Storm's Hamburgers" <storms@hometowncomputing> wrote in message
news:11kj4hk...@corp.supernews.com...
You can make good pictures with either, if you have decent equipment and
some experience using it. One advantage with cameras is that you can adjust
the lighting much easier than you can with scanners.
Bob Hairgrove
I've found that scanners tend to wash out any luster a nice BU coin
might have. Here are some pictures that I recently took with a Nikon
Coolpix 5900 digital camera:
http://img2.imagebarrel.com/img/05/179/18/HalfDollarPilgrimCommem1920obv.jpg
http://img2.imagebarrel.com/img/05/179/18/HalfDollarPilgrimCommem1920rev.jpg
http://img2.imagebarrel.com/img/05/179/18/Russia199350RublesGoldRachmaninoffobvholder.jpg
Haven't been able to teach my scanner how to do that yet. ;)
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Phil DeMayo
<inv...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>I've found that scanners tend to wash out any luster a nice BU coin
>might have. Here are some pictures that I recently took with a Nikon
>Coolpix 5900 digital camera:
>
>http://img2.imagebarrel.com/img/05/179/18/HalfDollarPilgrimCommem1920obv.jpg
Some interesting things going on with that obverse.....curved die
crack at the tops of the letters in "UNITED STATES", die polish lines
above and behind the Pilgrim's hat and perhaps a little bit of
mechanical doubling in some of the letters in "HALF DOLLAR".
bri
"Storm's Hamburgers" <storms@hometowncomputing> wrote in message
news:11kj4hk...@corp.supernews.com...
A digital camera with a macro capability and use natural ambient
light--that's the best.
With scanners what works on someone elses computer might not work for beans
with your box. It's mostly a software and rendering issue as to how well of
a scan you end up with. It isn't always a matter of spending the most
either--there's a whole slew of issues to consider.
Most all scanners you only get a one-way light source. So sometimes you have
to stick something under a coin and cock it up just right to capture some
luster or some really fine details. Another trick on a scanner is to keep
the lid open and use a raised-up background with different colors. I have
used some of those transparant colored plastic CD ROM cases and propped them
up with some bottle caps to get some colors to show up. It's just like using
a colored filter on a regular camera. Otherwise you need to scan at over
2400 dpi to get the colors to show up and the images turns out to be very
very large--over 100MB's and most computers choke up hard trying to chew on
that large of an image.
Phil DeMayo
When used properly a camera will provide images a scanner cannot
possibly match, especially when it comes to showing a coin's luster.
However, if you must use a scanner make sure it has a CCD image sensor
as this will provide the best depth of field (focus).
jcsuperstar
properly and use a good macro lens.
That said, I never enough time to set up a runway shoot for the coins
as they flow in and generally use a scanner. For most of the time, it
works great for internet file size images. I won a presentation award
from NGC for one of my sets where nearly every coin was scanned. The
downside tht many do not consider is the effect the scan mechanism has
on passing over the topographical details of a coin's surface. You can
get all sorts of annoying reflections that wash out features. It is
really a pain if you are trying to capture details specific to a die
variety and have to experiment with various scan orientations. One (to
remain nameless) auction company either scans their consignments or
photographs them poorly sometimes in ways that limits internet viewing
of details all of the time. I bid on guesses and hit most but miss
some because of that.
Bob Hairgrove
wrote:
>Some interesting things going on with that obverse.....curved die
>crack at the tops of the letters in "UNITED STATES", die polish lines
>above and behind the Pilgrim's hat and perhaps a little bit of
>mechanical doubling in some of the letters in "HALF DOLLAR".
The doubling is there, and I noticed the die polish, too -- it's a
pretty nice camera, after all!
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Bob Hairgrove
<inv...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
And here are some recent acquisitions that turned out well:
http://imagecloset.com/3/1006-BTW_1946-S_obv.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1035-BTW_1946-S_rev.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1024-Columbian_Half_Dollar_1892_obv.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1003-Columbian_Half_Dollar_1892_rev.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1041-Morgan_Dollar_1896_obv.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1033-Morgan_Dollar_1896_rev.jpg
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Jeff R
"Bob Hairgrove" <inv...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:86ckk118inkh9n033...@4ax.com...
> And here are some recent acquisitions that turned out well:
>
> http://imagecloset.com/3/1006-BTW_1946-S_obv.jpg
> http://imagecloset.com/3/1035-BTW_1946-S_rev.jpg
> http://imagecloset.com/3/1024-Columbian_Half_Dollar_1892_obv.jpg
> http://imagecloset.com/3/1003-Columbian_Half_Dollar_1892_rev.jpg
> http://imagecloset.com/3/1041-Morgan_Dollar_1896_obv.jpg
> http://imagecloset.com/3/1033-Morgan_Dollar_1896_rev.jpg
>
> --
> Bob Hairgrove
> NoSpam...@Home.com
Bob, I'm getting a "403-forbidden" on these links.
Is it my breath?
--
Jeff R.
(damned onions)
Bob Hairgrove
wrote:
>Bob, I'm getting a "403-forbidden" on these links.
>Is it my breath?
LOL ... I certainly hope not!
Strange, I thought it might be that they let me in because I still had
a cookie from the uploads or something, so I used another browser, and
they worked fine. Going through Google, I also had no trouble getting
in.
Try copying and pasting the URL addresses into the browser manually
... do you still get the error?
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Jeff R
Yup.
Still no dice
Firefox & IE6 both return a 403.
:-(
--
Jeff R.
Bob Hairgrove
wrote:
>Yup.
>Still no dice
Very strange ... I know that at least one other forum member has been
able to see these. If you look for a thread from today with the
subject "Help on grading my 1896 Morgan needed", you will see that
"jcsuperstar" was apparently able to get in through the very same
links to that coin's pictures.
Are you on a LAN behind a firewall, by any chance?
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Ian
Ian
Jeff R
"Ian" <I...@somewhereovertherainbow.com> wrote in message
news:slt2f.125880$G8.5...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Jeff R wrote:
> > Yup.
> > Still no dice
> >
> > Firefox & IE6 both return a 403.
> >
> > :-(
> >
> > --
> > Jeff R.
> >
> >
> The links work fine for me Jeff (?)
>
> Ian
sigghhhh.
Damn them onions.
--
Jeff R.
(still getting 403s)
Ian
Try the link with your firewall disengaged.
If it works, you need to do a bit of tweeking with the settings. If not,
then it's likely that the OP's server isn't accepting connections from
your ISP or the bunch of IP addy's it uses. Been there.
Ian
Jeff R
> > --
> > Jeff R.
> > (still getting 403s)
> >
> >
> Weird.....I thought it was garlic! ;-)
>
> Try the link with your firewall disengaged.
Tried that, with both browsers. :-(
>
> If it works, you need to do a bit of tweeking with the settings. If not,
> then it's likely that the OP's server isn't accepting connections from
> your ISP or the bunch of IP addy's it uses. Been there.
>
> Ian
Uh huh.
It must be Optus' breath, then.
Thanks, Ian.
--
Jeff R.
(back to the smelly foods...)
jake
place even tho it is in the right place. a2J
Bob Hairgrove
>Not to mention the funky looking mint mark as looking totally out of
>place even tho it is in the right place. a2J
You mean the "D" next to the pilgrim's elbow? That's the designer's
initial, not a mint mark. It is in the right place.
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
gogu
news:11kj4hk...@corp.supernews.com...
>I was thinking a scanner but someone mentioned depth of focus? Most pics I
> see with a camera are not good.
> I'd like opinoins on imaging coins please.
1) Good solution:
a CCD scanner
2) Best solution:
a digital SLR camera (DSLR) with a macro lens and a copy stand
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A
Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html
> mk
Bruce Farley
camera?
Thanks, Bruce
Bob Hairgrove
<afakea...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Those are great pictures. What do you use for lighting and holding the
>camera?
Thanks, Bruce.
Lighting: the more pictures I take, the more I am getting into using
natural sunlight. We have one window in our kitchen where the
afternoon sun hits it from a certain angle. On a nice day, with our
cream-colored drapes drawn, I get just enough diffused sunlight to
illuminate the coins without any harshness. If it's cloudy, I leave
the drapes open. You have to experiment, of course. At least with
digital cameras, it doesn't cost you anything to take 2 or 3 dozen
shots until you find the right settings! I have also tried halogen
lamps, but I find that they only work for certain kinds of coins, and
it's much less of a hassle to set up both the camera AND the lamp than
it is to just set up next to the window.
Holding: I use a tripod, which we had anyway for our Sony video
camera, and the adaptor attachment fits the Nikon as well. I use the
camera's macro setting and place the camera as close as I can get and
still use the auto-focus feature. This is about four inches or so.
Then I shoot the pictures using the camera's self-timer to ensure that
the camera is steady.
It's also very important to set the white balance properly. For this,
I use the back side of a Kodak 18% gray card. It does make a
difference in the way the colors come out, although I'll be damned if
I can tell the difference between the white of the card and a plain
sheet of white paper with the naked eye...I know, the gray cards are
expensive, but it's really a one-time purchase until you get it dirty,
if ever.
Once you have this set up, you need to think about the background you
want to use for your coins. It also has an effect on the way the
camera reproduces the coin's color. I usually use light-blue colored
paper for silver coins, but green or black is also nice. I use green
paper for most slabs, for example. Copper coins seem to come out best
with a pink background. That's a tip I got from this website:
http://www.uscents.com/articles/DCP/DCP002.htm
Here's another link you might want to read:
http://www.coinworld.com/news/011705/BW_0117.asp
Also, be sure to set up the imaging mode for the finest possible
quality and highest resolution. You can always size a picture down,
but if you start with a smaller picture, you might get stuck. Because
when you enlarge a picture, you're just making the pixels larger, not
adding any detail. BTW, you will need some kind of paint program to
crop the pictures and perhaps rotate them after you have put them into
the computer. I use an old version of Paint Shop Pro which used to be
shareware, but is now a retail product. Adobe PhotoShop is the "big
brother" of that program but is expensive. If all you need to do is
resize, rotate and crop, and perhaps save in different formats, you
can probably find free software to do that. Since I know and like
Paint Shop Pro, I can recommend it.
As to paint sotware: yes, there are lots of "tricks" one can use, but
if I find that the colors aren't right, or the focus not quite sharp,
I always get better results by going back to the camera and starting
over. I feel strongly that it is also not ethical to adjust things
unless you just can't get the picture to look like the coin otherwise.
Look at Ira Stein's auctions on eBay ("iras4"). He says he takes all
his own pictures and admits to using Photoshop just so they match the
coin. I've seldom seen more beautiful pictures on eBay, but then again
he has beautiful coins to showcase.
I used to (still do) have a Panasonic Lumix which has great features,
but I always had trouble with the color for some reason, so I would
have to do some gamma correction in the computer. But it never looked
as good as the pictures from my Nikon, which I actually only bought
because the Lumix is heavy and my wife complained about the weight
when we went on vacation trips! Of course, I looked around for
recommendations for a camera which was also good at coin shots, and
lots of people had recommended the Nikon Coolpix.
One last thing which is more of an aesthetic issue: Since I work with
a fixed lighting and camera setup, I find that I often turn the coin
at funny angles so that the angle of light is best for the coin's
design. For example, the Swiss 20 Franc gold "Vreneli" coins have this
innocent-looking milk maid (??) looking left and upwards with
mountains in the background. If I have the light coming from W-NW, it
looks like she is gazing into a sunrise in the Swiss mountains. But I
have to turn the coin and rotate the image -- which is another reaso
why you'd want an imaging program that can do more than 90 degree
increments. Here's the results of the Swiss coin:
http://imagecloset.com/3/1059-Switzerland_Vreneli_20_Fr_1909_obv.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1000-Switzerland_Vreneli_20_Fr_1909_rev.jpg
Hope this will help you get started!
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Bob Hairgrove
<inv...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>If I have the light coming from W-NW, it
>looks like she is gazing into a sunrise in the Swiss mountains.
Hmmm ... I guess this would have to be a sunset! <g>
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Bob Hairgrove
<inv...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>I have also tried halogen
>lamps, but I find that they only work for certain kinds of coins, and
>it's much less of a hassle to set up both the camera AND the lamp than
>it is to just set up next to the window.
Meant to say: "...it's much MORE of a hassle to set up", etc.
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Bob Hairgrove
<inv...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>an imaging program that can do more than 90 degree
>increments
What I meant was, of course, a program that can do increments in
various degrees other than 90% increments (i.e. any number from 0
through 360 and fractions of a degree).
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Bob Hairgrove
<afakea...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>What do you use for lighting
I got this terrific Morgan dollar in the mail yesterday from an eBay
auction -- blast white fields, cartwheels galore, and just a few marks
on the obverse. The reverse has spectacular crescent-moon toning (my
first toned Morgan). I think this coin definitely belongs in a slab;
since the seller is in the UK, though, it doesn't surprise me that it
hasn't been slabbed yet.
So I thought it would be nice to use to compare halogen vs. sunlight.
Of course, there are other incandescent light sources people like to
use, such as GE Reveal bulbs. My older Panasonic Lumix camera has a
halogen setting; unfortunately (?) there is only "incandescent" or
"fluorescent" with the Nikon Coolpix, so I did a manual white balance
for both halogen and sunlight. They don't sell GE Reveal in Europe, I
believe (different voltages?) and I haven't found a good equivalent
light bulb yet.
Anyway, here are the images:
http://imagecloset.com/3/1056-Morgan_Dollar_1882-S_halogen_obv.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1039-Morgan_Dollar_1882-S_halogen_rev.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1048-Morgan_Dollar_1882-S_sunlight_obv.jpg
http://imagecloset.com/3/1032-Morgan_Dollar_1882-S_sunlight_rev.jpg
As you can see, the halogen pictures have more of a cold bluish hue in
the background color, whereas the natural sunlight is more of a true
green. I could not adjust this in the computer with gamma correction
without making the coin itself look funny, so I left it alone.
The cartwheels are more spectacular with the halogen, but so are the
scuff marks. It is brutally hard light. As I mentioned in my last
post, only certain kinds of coins will do well under halogen. I did
get pretty good pictures of slabbed coins with the Panasonic using
halogen light -- maybe the plastic took away some of the hardness.
Circulated brown copper coins also do well; sometimes the halogen
helps to bring out detail which might not be noticeable if the coin is
very dark.
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
aca...@gate.net
add the color later? I think both the halogen and natural light are
good. They both show good and bad points of the coin fairly clearly.
One problem I have with lighting is that my business strike silver
coins tend to look dark when I put them online. I usually light the
coin unidirectionally with four 40 W incandescent bulbs. I've tried to
brighten the coins with my imagining package, but it ends up making
them look washed out. Of course, adjusting brightness/contrast changes
the coin utterly.
Incandescent does seem to me to be the most flattering light for
silver, but I would like to get more brightness without the
accompanying glare that goes with high wattage. Any ideas on how to
brighten coins without washing out the details?
Anita
Bob Hairgrove
wrote:
Hi Anita,
>Bob, did you photograph the coins on the greenish background or did you
>add the color later?
This is just colored art paper like you can get at the dime store. I
didn't add color to any of the pictures.
>I think both the halogen and natural light are
>good. They both show good and bad points of the coin fairly clearly.
I really don't like the halogen pictures ... not only do they make
every little mark stand out beyond all proportion, but they look cold
and hard to me. What halogen light is best for is exposing hairlines
and polishing scratches, IMHO ... can't beat it for that!
>One problem I have with lighting is that my business strike silver
>coins tend to look dark when I put them online. I usually light the
>coin unidirectionally with four 40 W incandescent bulbs. I've tried to
>brighten the coins with my imagining package, but it ends up making
>them look washed out. Of course, adjusting brightness/contrast changes
>the coin utterly.
Hmmm ... what kind of computer monitor do you have? It may need
calibrating. OTOH the images themselves shouldn't be any different
just because they are on eBay's server instead of your hard disk. I
have heard complaints that the images do change in color when uploaded
to eBay, though.
It also might be that your internet browser renders the pictures
differently than what you are seeing in your paint program. Once you
have the pictures ready, before uploading them, always open them in
your browser to see what they look like. You can also host your
pictures somewhere else, e.g. imagecloset.com, and post the links in
your eBay auction. I've never sold anything on eBay yet, so I can't
tell you exactly how it is done, but I know that it can be done.
>Incandescent does seem to me to be the most flattering light for
>silver, but I would like to get more brightness without the
>accompanying glare that goes with high wattage. Any ideas on how to
>brighten coins without washing out the details?
>
>Anita
One thing you might want to try is the histogram stretch function, if
you have it. This will increase the contrast in your picture on a
per-color basis instead of just making shadows darker and highlights
lighter. With pictures where there is already a good spread of color
intensity values, the effect is fairly small, but on "washed-out"
looking pictures you can get some pretty dramatic improvements.
However, I would try to get it right with your camera first. Do you
always do a white balance adjustment each time you do a photo session?
My camera won't remember the settings too well, and sunlight changes
from day to day.
Thanks for looking!
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Bob Hairgrove
<inv...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>What halogen light is best for is exposing hairlines
>and polishing scratches...
Unfortunately, I can't do that until I've already bought the coin,
though (and usually paid way too much for it), so it has limited
usefulness in that department!
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Frank Provasek
"Storm's Hamburgers" <storms@hometowncomputing> wrote in message
news:11kj4hk...@corp.supernews.com...
>I was thinking a scanner but someone mentioned depth of focus? Most pics I
> see with a camera are not good.
> I'd like opinoins on imaging coins please.
> mk
>
>
This photo was made with my Olympus D545 which has a new super
macro mode.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8341367020
FRANK PROVASEK RARE COINS www.frankcoins.com
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfrankcoins Texas Auction License 11259
Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association. Member: Fort Worth Coin
Club,
Texas Numismatic Assoc, American Numismatic Assoc
aca...@gate.net
Frank Provasek wrote:
...
> This photo was made with my Olympus D545 which has a new super
> macro mode.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8341367020
Excellent picture, Frank. I especially like the depth of the profile.
Anita
Tony Clayton
> Texas Numismatic Assoc, American Numismatic Assoc
> "Storm's Hamburgers" <storms@hometowncomputing> wrote in message
> news:11kj4hk...@corp.supernews.com...
> >I was thinking a scanner but someone mentioned depth of focus? Most pics I
> > see with a camera are not good.
> > I'd like opinoins on imaging coins please.
> > mk
> >
> >
>
> This photo was made with my Olympus D545 which has a new super
> macro mode.
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8341367020
>
>
I have recently bought a Canon EOS 350D with an 18-55 lens
(the standard entry point) and took the following
picture of a denarius of the Roman Republic.
This was hand held using flash - the image has been significantly
reduced to get a reasonable size of image.
This was the fourth photgraph taken with the camera, and demonstrates
that the right equipment makes experts of us all!
See
http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/pics/rrep/repden.jpg
--
Tony Clayton tony.cla...@pem.cam.ac.uk
Coins of the UK : http://www.coinsoftheuk.info
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... It's not the money I want, it's the stuff.
Ian
> In a recent message "Frank Provasek" <fr...@frankcoins.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Texas Numismatic Assoc, American Numismatic Assoc
>>"Storm's Hamburgers" <storms@hometowncomputing> wrote in message
>>news:11kj4hk...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>I was thinking a scanner but someone mentioned depth of focus? Most pics I
>>>see with a camera are not good.
>>>I'd like opinoins on imaging coins please.
>>>mk
>>>
>>>
>>
>>This photo was made with my Olympus D545 which has a new super
>>macro mode.
>>
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8341367020
>>
>>
>
> I have recently bought a Canon EOS 350D with an 18-55 lens
> (the standard entry point) and took the following
> picture of a denarius of the Roman Republic.
>
> This was hand held using flash - the image has been significantly
> reduced to get a reasonable size of image.
>
> This was the fourth photgraph taken with the camera, and demonstrates
> that the right equipment makes experts of us all!
>
> See
>
> http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/pics/rrep/repden.jpg
>
>
Bob Hairgrove
<tony.cla...@pem.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>This was hand held using flash - the image has been significantly
>reduced to get a reasonable size of image.
I must say, you have a remarkably steady hand! But have you tried
using the timer with a less harsh source of lighting? I think you'd
find the results much more pleasing, color-wise.
--
Bob Hairgrove
NoSpam...@Home.com
Phil DeMayo
And sharper if he used a tripod or copy stand.
Tony Clayton
It was my first attempt to see what was possible.
I will be getting a tripod!
The illumination was tungsten bulb from the side (so I
could see what I was doing) and the camera flash.
In future I shall use daylight and no flash, and a tripod.
The focus is slightly out on the lower right of the image,
and the reduced image is not as good as the raw original!
The coin is one of my favourite republican denarii. I shall
have a go at the reverse which has stunning fine detail on
the wings of Victory and the horses of her quadriga.
--
Tony Clayton tony.cla...@pem.cam.ac.uk
Coins of the UK : http://www.coinsoftheuk.info
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... I entered this message just to use this tagline.
Tony Clayton
My browser aborts, so I tried downloading the images.
About halfway through I get download aborted.
Ooops. Silly me. I was saving it to a hard disc
with less than 180 kbytes left on it!!!
Out of three hard disc drives I would choose that one!
--
Tony Clayton tony.cla...@pem.cam.ac.uk
Coins of the UK : http://www.coinsoftheuk.info
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... A phaser on stun is like a day without orange juice.